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So CCP, do you actually WANT FW players to stop giving you money?

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Johannes Buckbeak Minmatar PoliCratton Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:11:00 - [1] See, this is how business works. You give me something I want, I give you money. What I want from this game is to have a good time, get into a nice fight and win or lose. What I DON'T want is to sit watching lag. I don't want to spend an hour getting ready for a fight, finally jumping in to a great looking battle and then just being frustrated. I get enough anger and frustration from real life, I come to the game to relax. So if the game just delivers frustration, I'll stop paying and go and play WoW instead. And you guys will all be out of a job. How's the Icelandic economy right now? Is it a good time to be looking for a job? If not I suggest that you get off your butts and fix the lag. If you can't or won't give your CUSTOMERS what they want, then they''l stop being customers, and you'll be out of business. Simple as that.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:12:00 - [2] Edited by: Concorduck on 01/02/2009 21:12:44 INB4 LEAVING EVE EDIT: ALSO STOP PLAYING, YOU CAN'T BLACKMAIL CCP, THEY OWNS ALL THE STUFF EDIT: SORRY, SOMETHING IS STUCK IN MY CAPS LOCK KEY edit: there, solved ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:12:00 - [3] Originally by: Concorduck INB4 LEAVING EVE Your stuff. Give it to me now. ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006.
Apoctasy Young Enterprise Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:13:00 - [4] Edited by: Apoctasy on 01/02/2009 21:14:04 lol @ the idiot in the OP Please feel free to leave. CCP will handle just fine without your $14.95 per month.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:14:00 - [5] Originally by: Allen Ramses Originally by: Concorduck INB4 LEAVING EVE Your stuff. Give it to me now. Open a Trade with me in station, haven't got money for contracts ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Grek Forto THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Apoctasy lol @ the idiot in the OP QFT
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:16:00 - [7] Can I haz yo 14.95?
Jana Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Apoctasy lol @ the terrible troll in the OP Fixed. New Eden Research, where your research gets done!
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak See, this is how business works. You give me something I want, I give you money. What I want from this game is to have a good time, get into a nice fight and win or lose. What I DON'T want is to sit watching lag. I don't want to spend an hour getting ready for a fight, finally jumping in to a great looking battle and then just being frustrated. I get enough anger and frustration from real life, I come to the game to relax. So if the game just delivers frustration, I'll stop paying and go and play WoW instead. And you guys will all be out of a job. How's the Icelandic economy right now? Is it a good time to be looking for a job? If not I suggest that you get off your butts and fix the lag. If you can't or won't give your CUSTOMERS what they want, then they''l stop being customers, and you'll be out of business. Simple as that. I hope you're hanging your head in shame, Mr. Representative of PoliCratton Technologies, for the sheer lunacy of attempting to blackmail CCP -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:42:00 - [10] lol a fw =P didnt they teach you anything in combat school This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb

Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:44:00 - [11] Facts the OP is based upon: - Customers are a coherent group of people. - All customers behave the same. - There is a solution that satisfies all customers. Which of the above three points is wrong? -------- Ideas for: Mining
Borzek Staropramen Gallente Tactical Initiative	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:47:00 - [12] / signed!
Johannes Buckbeak Minmatar PoliCratton Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:48:00 - [13] From the Shorter Icelandic Dictionary: Blackmail: When a customer declines to pay for something because it doesn't fit their needs.
Sythyss Fine Goods for Fine Gentlemen	Posted - 2009.02.01 22:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak From the Shorter Icelandic Dictionary: Blackmail: When a customer declines to pay for something because it doesn't fit their needs. hahahaha ---------------------------
Feilamya Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.01 22:39:00 - [15] Dear CCP! I accidentally subscribed to your game when I really wanted to play WoW instead. So either you make EVE like WoW or I will quit giving you my money! OP is right. This is how business works.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.01 22:40:00 - [16] Edited by: Concorduck on 01/02/2009 22:40:33 Locked. Trolling. EDIT: FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, I keep writing with the wrong character ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Sri Zu	Posted - 2009.02.01 22:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Concorduck Edited by: Concorduck on 01/02/2009 22:40:33 Locked. Trolling. EDIT: FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, I keep writing with the wrong character Unlocked. Please continue trolling.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.01 22:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Concorduck Edited by: Concorduck on 01/02/2009 22:40:33 Locked. Trolling. EDIT: FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, I keep writing with the wrong character You're going to have a very bad day my friend when you inadvertantly post with your main and the hunters they start to come a-calling :( -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Gone'Postal Aztec Industry	Posted - 2009.02.01 22:46:00 - [19] Don't worry the new IBM server will fix it... If it even exists that is. Originally by: masternerdguy Officer mods arent spread out because the bpos are innacesible to 99% of eve.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2009.02.01 22:47:00 - [20] Relax, EVE is just a "I'll f*** you till something better comes along" type of chick. ;-P

Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.01 22:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Captain Pompous Originally by: Concorduck Edited by: Concorduck on 01/02/2009 22:40:33 Locked. Trolling. EDIT: FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, I keep writing with the wrong character You're going to have a very bad day my friend when you inadvertantly post with your main and the hunters they start to come a-calling :( I have no main, i'm a rogue alt.
Neu Bastian Minmatar Valklear Guard	Posted - 2009.02.02 00:30:00 - [22] I r support this rageful rant of rantness! step one: fix lag step two: ??? step three: Profit
Vincent Death Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.02.02 00:42:00 - [23] The main problem with FW is that people know that the servers can't handle blob warfare currently. But rather than engaging their brains and adapting the majority prefer to blob anyway and then come to the forums to complain about lag. Which we all know about anyway and just makes them look silly. Here's a craaaaaaazy idea. Go roaming in small gangs, fight over plexes with other small gangs. Here's another craaaaaaazy idea. Stop blobbing. The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism.
Johannes Buckbeak Minmatar PoliCratton Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.02 00:52:00 - [24] Well I don't know about Caldaris, but this was a 30 v 30 fight and round here that's a small to medium battle. Server shouldn't even notice it. As it happened the Minmatar had two smallish fleets which came together; Amarr were in their home system so I guess that they got a fleet together quickly in response, maybe even individuals came running from the station. So what are we supposed to do - take a roll call and stop letting people go into the fight after 10 each side? Here's another craazzzzzy idea - CCP provide a server which can handle a very modest fight without collapsing.
Asuna Endorine	Posted - 2009.02.02 00:57:00 - [25] i hear the main reason that fixing blobs has a low priority, is that ccp dosnt LIKE blobs blobs dont really make for exciting or interesting gameplay at least every one i ever joined, was so boring i would PREFER watching paint dry go move around in small gangs, and try for more tactical strikes, i try to understand everyones point of view, but in this case i fail completely... BLOBS SUCK!
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.02 01:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak Here's another craazzzzzy idea - CCP provide a server which can handle a very modest fight without collapsing. Here's yet another craazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy idea, stop paying if you don't like it? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Tortmar Cull	Posted - 2009.02.02 01:02:00 - [27] /signed this is getting terrible.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.02 01:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Concorduck Originally by: Captain Pompous Originally by: Concorduck Edited by: Concorduck on 01/02/2009 22:40:33 Locked. Trolling. EDIT: FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, I keep writing with the wrong character You're going to have a very bad day my friend when you inadvertantly post with your main and the hunters they start to come a-calling :( I have no main, i'm a rogue alt. likewise, i hide in an infested dominix waiting to pounce -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.02 01:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak See, this is how business works. You give me something I want, I give you money. What I want from this game is to have a good time, get into a nice fight and win or lose. What I DON'T want is to sit watching lag. I don't want to spend an hour getting ready for a fight, finally jumping in to a great looking battle and then just being frustrated. I get enough anger and frustration from real life, I come to the game to relax. So if the game just delivers frustration, I'll stop paying and go and play WoW instead. And you guys will all be out of a job. How's the Icelandic economy right now? Is it a good time to be looking for a job? If not I suggest that you get off your butts and fix the lag. If you can't or won't give your CUSTOMERS what they want, then they''l stop being customers, and you'll be out of business. Simple as that. Stop blobbing fool!
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.02 02:17:00 - [30] Your post ist ambivalent Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak See, this is how business works. You give me something I want, I give you money. What I want from this game is to have a good time, get into a nice fight and win or lose. What I DON'T want is to sit watching lag. I don't want to spend an hour getting ready for a fight, finally jumping in to a great looking battle and then just being frustrated. I get enough anger and frustration from real life, I come to the game to relax. I agree on this. Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak So if the game just delivers frustration, I'll stop paying and go and play WoW instead. And you guys will all be out of a job. How's the Icelandic economy right now? Is it a good time to be looking for a job? If not I suggest that you get off your butts and fix the lag. If you can't or won't give your CUSTOMERS what they want, then they''l stop being customers, and you'll be out of business. Simple as that. Look what a dumbass you are.

Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.02 02:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak See, this is how business works. You give me something I want, I give you money. What I want from this game is to have a good time, get into a nice fight and win or lose. What I DON'T want is to sit watching lag. I don't want to spend an hour getting ready for a fight, finally jumping in to a great looking battle and then just being frustrated. I get enough anger and frustration from real life, I come to the game to relax. So if the game just delivers frustration, I'll stop paying and go and play WoW instead. And you guys will all be out of a job. How's the Icelandic economy right now? Is it a good time to be looking for a job? If not I suggest that you get off your butts and fix the lag. If you can't or won't give your CUSTOMERS what they want, then they''l stop being customers, and you'll be out of business. Simple as that. i am a happy customer all the nodes in 0.0 that are having fight on are reinforced so were having a nice 400 vs 400 fest up here with love AC This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Wensbane Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.02.02 02:27:00 - [32] There are better ways to voice your concerns than this, OP. I understand your frustration, I really do, even 20vs20 fights (not what I would consider blobbing, but to each his own) seem impossible in FW territory, at the moment. That, in my humble opinion, is a clear signal that things aren't working as intended. With that said, threatening to leave the game won't get the fixes here any sooner. Now, I do not think you should be forced to join a 0.0 alliance if all you want to do is to fight for your respective faction (and not for the interests of a particular CEO). That is the beauty of EVE, all playstyles should be possible and encouraged. I'm sure there is great value in Faction Warfare to all sort of players, so it's a real shame to see it in such a precarious state.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.02 02:30:00 - [33] they will sort it out eventually , just after they fix sovereignty and jita This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Zaracaan	Posted - 2009.02.02 04:54:00 - [34] "i hear the main reason that fixing blobs has a low priority, is that ccp dosnt LIKE blobs" Maybe so but I spent November and December in 0.0 and equal size fight (20-30vs20-30 people) went without problems there. I never had to turn off brackets (all though I didn't have most brackets on, just enemy ships) or effects or anything and still there wasn't much lag. Yesterday this http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=32066 fight was total desync for me and from what I hear for most people in that fight. That's not a huge blob by any means. For me the fight went like this. First minute or so was ok, there was lag but not major. I killed one enemy ship and tried to target another. No response at all when I tried to turn on my guns for the next guy. This went for a little while (I would say 30secs or so but hard to estimate). After this I my screen started go all wierd, for example my overview showed 5-10 times every ship. Right after this I got "entering space" message that just kept repeating and the same time my whole screen was in loop. Eventually I was pulled out of the fight due my fc's fleet warp. It turned out that I did infact kill the other ship too eventhough I never had any sign of my guns actually activating. I had all brackets and effects turned off. Do you really think it is acceptable for a small fleet fight to have lag/desync like that? This wasn't the first time either. Yesterday we had 2 engagements like that in amarr/minmatar front and both were the same and it has been like this for a while now. Anything beyong 40 ships total is completely unplayable. I also wonder why it was never like that in 0.0 or in fw prior to my short trip to 0.0? We had fight twice this size with manageable lag.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Divinity's Edge	Posted - 2009.02.02 04:57:00 - [35] Can I have your stuff?
Roymundo Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.02.02 05:39:00 - [36] Originally by: Feilamya Dear CCP! I accidentally subscribed to your game when I really wanted to play WoW instead. So either you make EVE like WoW or I will quit giving you my money! OP is right. This is how business works. he's actually right. he talking about quitting due to lag, and you ridicule him for this as you think this would make eve more like wow? you saying you like the lag? give you more masturbating time perhaps?
Bohoba Caldari HolyKnights	Posted - 2009.02.02 05:51:00 - [37] Originally by: Feilamya Dear CCP! I accidentally subscribed to your game when I really wanted to play WoW instead. So either you make EVE like WoW or I will quit giving you my money! OP is right. This is how business works. The March expantion = WoW wish granted,,, your welcome:) ....................... 10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2009.02.02 06:03:00 - [38] Originally by: Bohoba Originally by: Feilamya Dear CCP! I accidentally subscribed to your game when I really wanted to play WoW instead. So either you make EVE like WoW or I will quit giving you my money! OP is right. This is how business works. The March expantion = WoW wish granted,,, your welcome:) i'm rolling a gallente shaman
Rex Lashar Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.02 06:04:00 - [39] BAAAAAAAAAAAAA..AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.02.02 06:04:00 - [40] Informing a company that you will discontinue paying for their service if their service doesn't meet the standards that it portrays, is actually quite fair. I don't know why people are so childish and telling this guy to leave. CCP DOES want his 15 dollars a month, and they DO want him to stay in EVE rather than go to WoW. If ENOUGH people say that, yes they are tired of the lag in Faction Warfare, then CCP WILL look into it and fix it to the best of their abilities. ---------------------------------

Leaving Eve	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:19:00 - [41] Boy I dropped the ball here. Anyway, welcome to my world.
Naru Kraurr Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:44:00 - [42] Edited by: Naru Kraurr on 02/02/2009 09:44:54 Edited by: Naru Kraurr on 02/02/2009 09:44:11 Although the OP could have put his point across alot more constructively, he has got a point. 20v20 or 30v30 fights aren't blobs anymore, they're more like small skirmishes. With all the effects off and disabling all the brackets there is still alot of lag. Module activation delay is common place. Sometimes you're in a pod before you can activate anything. Considering that in the FW zones PvP is expected then something needs to be done. People won't engage in a fight unless they know that the server will be stable. CCP needs to look at this.
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2009.02.02 10:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Informing a company that you will discontinue paying for their service if their service doesn't meet the standards that it portrays, is actually quite fair. I don't know why people are so childish and telling this guy to leave. CCP DOES want his 15 dollars a month, and they DO want him to stay in EVE rather than go to WoW. If ENOUGH people say that, yes they are tired of the lag in Faction Warfare, then CCP WILL look into it and fix it to the best of their abilities. True. The OP just didn't have to be such a confrontational arse about it.
Crimsonjade Comanche Nation	Posted - 2009.02.02 10:38:00 - [44] you leave, i come back. either this or im petitioning ccp for you greifing me game play. burn witch
Jeddak Tarkas	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:13:00 - [45] Edited by: Jeddak Tarkas on 02/02/2009 11:14:00 I do find it strange that people object when someone complains of lag in a game when it obviously affects so many people. Would these same people happily pay for an mp3 player that played at too slow a speed, or would they return it and ask for their money back or a new product? (probably a bad analogy but the point remains) If you get a bad meal in a restaurant, they would far rather you complain and then maybe come back if they sort something out for you, than to leave unhappy and then complain about it to others losing them far more custom. Bottom line fixing the lag will keep players and may bring more (although not too many or we go back to lag again)
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:16:00 - [46] Nobody likes lag. But it's not like CCP can just decide to get rid of it and push a button - so all those "fix lag or else" threads are silly. And accusing people that they like lag when they learned to live with it and make the best out of it - while it does get improved is stupid. I understand the frustration after a laggy fight - but don't talk like lag is universal - it's not. There's plenty of fights without or with low/managable lag. If you have consistent lag - check if it's not your hardware or your settings. Often lag is local to the client. And stay out of the busiest systems (though - granted - you can't know what other systems are on the same node - shrug). Lag will always be here - regardless of technology or what CCP invests because battles will scale up to the limit of what the servers can bear. Good thing about FW - plenty of close by people you can get into fights with. Bad thing about FW - plenty of close by people you get into fights with in the freakin' middle of the most populated space in EVE. It's 2 sides of the same coin. OP - go and do play wow. We'll see you return in a few months when you noticed that EVE with lag is more interesting than wow without (not that wow is free of lag). CCP does work on lag - a lot. They keep upgrading hardware and improving software every year. I have seen the lag limit to grow from 20 ships to 200 and now even more. And when CCP does focus mostly on lag reduction they get accused that QR didn't deliver enough new content/features. Somebody is always whining. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE
Billy Merc Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:29:00 - [47] Everyone on same server... Is a great PR spin Is good for CCP's wallet realisticly speaking... ambitions have been fastly approching capabilities for a long time now... (of current TQ setup) that is of course for anything large scale to happen in the one spot. i hope this new TQ hardware ccp always speaks of is getting closer to becoming a reality..
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne If ENOUGH people say that, yes they are tired of the lag in Faction Warfare, then CCP WILL look into it and fix it to the best of their abilities. Yeah - unlike the current situation where CCP doesn't care one bit about lag and never bothered to do anything about it in over 5 years. The constant upgrading of hardware during the last 5 years is just to keep London warm in winter and all the lag reducing software changes (reducing drone numbers, stacklessIO, 64bit servers, etc...) have nothing to do with lag reduction at all. If you haven't been around long you are half-way forgiven (other half is becuse you could have checked first) - but lag has improved a lot over the years. Battles can now be much larger than 5 years ago. Please keep in mind that server nodes are not allocated to your particular battle (unless you could inform CCP 1 day in advance) - but that x systems share 1 server node. So your laggy 20vs15 battle - might have 1234 other pilots doing pvp, mining, ratting and missioning at the same time. The frustration is understandable - so is the frustration of those amongst us who are tired of the lag-whine-thread #666 with the same 0-constructive content and silly assumption that CCP can just decide to change this by next month. OP is totally within his right to withdraw his money from CCP if he doesn't like the service provided and of course CCP would much rather keep him as a happy customer. That's the point. It's all so obvious and oft-repeated that there is 0 point in doing it yet again. Alternate version of OPs message: --- snip --- I'm frustrated with the lag in FW. Had yet another fight go in slow-mo. I understand that a lot is being done but this just doesn't work for me. If anybody has advice about what I can do with my client to improve this I'd appreciate it. If that doesn't help I set myself end of march as the date when I won't resubscribe unless I get a good percentage of low lag fights. Whenever there is a choice between resources put into new feature or reducing lag - this customer votes for the latter. --- snip --- That still would be mostly redundant (nothing that CCP and the rest of us doesn't know already) - but less silly and a bit more informative without baseless accusations - therefore more likely to get respect. Would at least get less "WOW -> this way" replies. Why would OP expect respectful replies when he doesn't open that way?
Vincent Death Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:39:00 - [49] Edited by: Vincent Death on 02/02/2009 11:40:15 Originally by: Jeddak Tarkas Edited by: Jeddak Tarkas on 02/02/2009 11:14:00 I do find it strange that people object when someone complains of lag in a game when it obviously affects so many people. Thing is, everyone knows that FW systems cannot handle engagements that occur everyday in 0.0. Its a crappy situation but it's our crappy situation. CCP knows its laggy, your entire faction knows its laggy, your enemy knows its laggy. Until CCP actually fix it, it will continue to be laggy. Opening whine thread after whine thread does not make CCP work faster. So you have two options. You can keep flinging big fleets into each other and cross your fingers that its not your side that crashes, or you can form up faster gangs and go roaming. And, to be brutally honest, if you launch a fleet of 30 into your enemies home system you've got to expect a server shredding blob. And yes, 30+ is a server shredding blob in FW. The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:51:00 - [50] Originally by: Billy Merc Everyone on same server... Widespread misunderstanding that seems to be impossible to eradicate. EVE is not everyone on same server - but on same cluster - that is knit together to seem like 1 universe (ever noticed "session changes" when you jump between systems or dock at station?). It's many servers - you just don't select them. N systems share a server. At any given time it's a few thousands on a single server at most. Usually more like a few hundred. Some servers might have only a handful of players active at a given time. What's missing is dynamic re-allocation of servers to systems based on current demand. If that were trivial to achieve CCP would have already done so. They are working on it. Meanwhile they do re-allocate systems from time to time and you can request a dedicated server for a big battle if you know 1 day in advance. Which is not a big problem for 0.0 alliance that plans to attack an outpost or a key POS with a big blob. The attacker have to plan in advance themselves and appropriate defense showing up can be expected.

Sade Onyx	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:00:00 - [51] Edited by: Sade Onyx on 02/02/2009 12:01:38 While everyone is flaming the OP, I'm willing to bet that everyone feels as frustrated as he does. The story of waiting hours to get a large fleet underway only for it to be destroyed by lag is indeed unpleasent, frustrating, stress building and actually, I think the OP uses quite a bit of restraint. If I were to lose control and let frustration do my typing, then I would be making more cutting remarks than he does. But actually, the subscription cost for Eve (for me) is double my monthly mobile phone bill.. and thats more likely to see my business going elsewhere (which for the most part of each year it does) not the lag.
Crimsonjade Comanche Nation	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:11:00 - [52] Originally by: Sade Onyx Edited by: Sade Onyx on 02/02/2009 12:01:38 While everyone is flaming the OP, I'm willing to bet that everyone feels as frustrated as he does. The story of waiting hours to get a large fleet underway only for it to be destroyed by lag is indeed unpleasent, frustrating, stress building and actually, I think the OP uses quite a bit of restraint. If I were to lose control and let frustration do my typing, then I would be making more cutting remarks than he does. But actually, the subscription cost for Eve (for me) is double my monthly mobile phone bill.. and thats more likely to see my business going elsewhere (which for the most part of each year it does) not the lag. gives cutting remarks pls? and stuff i can has?
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:15:00 - [53] Originally by: Sade Onyx Edited by: Sade Onyx on 02/02/2009 12:01:38While everyone is flaming the OP, I'm willing to bet that everyone feels as frustrated as he does. You would have lost it, i have fun watching lag threads and i couldn't be better, since i'm experiencing lag-free play in most of my game time.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Vincent Death The main problem with FW is that people know that the servers can't handle blob warfare currently. But rather than engaging their brains and adapting the majority prefer to blob anyway and then come to the forums to complain about lag. Which we all know about anyway and just makes them look silly. Here's a craaaaaaazy idea. Go roaming in small gangs, fight over plexes with other small gangs. Here's another craaaaaaazy idea. Stop blobbing. Many of us do fight without blobbing. However, the point is that 0.0 can host pretty spectacular large battles, and the FW crowd would like to be able to do the same thing, but their side of the game isn't getting quite as much attention. This is also coupled with the fact that it used to be possible to get involved in 60 v 60 battles with practically no lag, and it is only recently that this lag or desynch issue has become a problem. There always will be a limit to how many you can get in a fleet, but when people know it is easy enough to have battles involving hundreds of people, is it so much to expect to be able to hold smaller battles. You say 'don't blob', but whenever people use this term in this way, it usually means 'don't you dare try to outnumber me and mine'. It seems a blob is only a blob when people are outnumbered. If you wander into a belt, and an opposing faction have five ships there waiting for you, are they 'blobbing' you? Outnumbering the opposition is the oldest tactic of all, and it is not going to go away because you say so. I'm sure you use the very same tactic yourself, or are the majority of your kills 1v1? EVE is a harsh universe, and it will always have its race for superiority. Yes, I understand what you are saying about 'adapt or die', but you must also concede that it should be possible to form larger fleets without the desynch, just as it was before. You may like to hunt alone, or in a small pack, but there are plenty of people who like to fight in large scale engagements. I'm hoping that this issue will be dealt with in the expansion, otherwise CCP may struggle to keep hold of players when a new influx puts an additional strain on the servers. They should put the contested regions on to one of the blade servers reserved for fleet battles, or at least the more popular routes (such as the Heydelies-Tama pipes).
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:46:00 - [55] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Informing a company that you will discontinue paying for their service if their service doesn't meet the standards that it portrays, is actually quite fair. I don't know why people are so childish and telling this guy to leave. CCP DOES want his 15 dollars a month, and they DO want him to stay in EVE rather than go to WoW. If ENOUGH people say that, yes they are tired of the lag in Faction Warfare, then CCP WILL look into it and fix it to the best of their abilities. I agree with that. I'll admit the OP did sound more like a whine, but the point is valid. But what Neesa says is bang on the money. And to those who say that CCP don't care about the lag: well, they have made massive strides in improving this over the years, it's just that this desynch issue is just a setback, and the population is growing all of the time. Problems take time to resolve, and CCP do resolve them, only new problems occur when circumstances change. This is a dynamic environment, not a static one. I don't expect everything to be perfect just to reach an acceptable level and, most of the time, CCP achieve this. Certainly enough to ensure I keep subscribing, anyway.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:58:00 - [56] Originally by: Concorduck Originally by: Sade Onyx Edited by: Sade Onyx on 02/02/2009 12:01:38While everyone is flaming the OP, I'm willing to bet that everyone feels as frustrated as he does. You would have lost it, i have fun watching lag threads and i couldn't be better, since i'm experiencing lag-free play in most of my game time. Don't gloat. It's very childish and makes you look like you are compulsed to inflict sorrow on others in order to make up for your own feelings of inadaquacy. The same applies to all of those people who feel the need to flame.
Mihaill Blackthorn Gallente Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:03:00 - [57] The original poster does have a valid point. But it's not just limited to FW. The simple issue is that if one group brings 10 the other group wants to bring 20 to insure a victory. That doesn't always happen though due to lag and luck. Yesterday in 0.0 I was in a fight my gang had 195 people in it. The other gang had 450 in local. The fight was a slide show. The other gang still lost but I can't really say if it was skill + lag + luck that won the fight. There is no easy answer or ccp would have implemented it a long time ago. People always forget that there own bandwidth/internet connection is a factor in this too. Even just 100 people you will have some people on dial-up to very high speed connections. Latency is one of the biggest issues and it's not controllable by ccp outside of there network.
AlpacaSolution Caldari Hyperions	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:26:00 - [58] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak Here's another craazzzzzy idea - CCP provide a server which can handle a very modest fight without collapsing. Here's yet another craazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy idea, stop paying if you don't like it? (CCP provide a server which can handle a very modest fight without collapsing.) /Agree I use broadband and a pure gaming computer but I still lag, never lag in any other game I've played, wierd. I'd still play EVE though, it's bad a**, but I would like a server upgrade too fix the 5 minute blinky weapons lag someday ^^, :)
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:29:00 - [59] Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak See, this is how business works. You give me something I want, I give you money. What I want from this game is to have a good time, get into a nice fight and win or lose. What I DON'T want is to sit watching lag. I don't want to spend an hour getting ready for a fight, finally jumping in to a great looking battle and then just being frustrated. I get enough anger and frustration from real life, I come to the game to relax. So if the game just delivers frustration, I'll stop paying and go and play WoW instead. And you guys will all be out of a job. How's the Icelandic economy right now? Is it a good time to be looking for a job? If not I suggest that you get off your butts and fix the lag. If you can't or won't give your CUSTOMERS what they want, then they''l stop being customers, and you'll be out of business. Simple as that. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Gershomea Raphael Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:27:00 - [60] But, CCP Hellmar says "Lag does not exist in EVE". Therefore, it MUST be your PC! If you're complaining about 30v30, try coming to 0.0 or lowsec and participating in a 250vs250 battleship fight. That's a little laggy. Really laggy is 50vs50 capital and a 300vs300 BS/support fleet all fighting in one system. And even that now is NOTHING compared to this time last year when you could expect 15 minute module lag, constant desyncs, yadda yadda.

Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:31:00 - [61] any of you tried to throw in a petition ? i mean as the logical choice instead of opening a ****ty thread about it ? This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
MobyMule Minmatar PoliCratton Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:37:00 - [62] Johannes is right. Just a few months ago 30 vs 30 was no problem. Now we have issues all the time with fleets this size. FW systems need some lovin plain and simple.
Liz Laser	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:49:00 - [63] Originally by: Pan Crastus Relax, EVE is just a "I'll f*** you till something better comes along" type of chick. ;-P nice.
AleRiperKilt	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:24:00 - [64] Originally by: MobyMule Johannes is right. Just a few months ago 30 vs 30 was no problem. Now we have issues all the time with fleets this size. FW systems need some lovin plain and simple. Maybe CCP assigned all the fast servers to help BoB in their invasion of the South --- "I live in Los Angeles, where driving is non-consensual pvp" - Arric Rohr
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:25:00 - [65] Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak See, this is how business works. You give me something I want, I give you money. What I want from this game is to have a good time, get into a nice fight and win or lose. What I DON'T want is to sit watching lag. I don't want to spend an hour getting ready for a fight, finally jumping in to a great looking battle and then just being frustrated. I get enough anger and frustration from real life, I come to the game to relax. So if the game just delivers frustration, I'll stop paying and go and play WoW instead. And you guys will all be out of a job. How's the Icelandic economy right now? Is it a good time to be looking for a job? If not I suggest that you get off your butts and fix the lag. If you can't or won't give your CUSTOMERS what they want, then they''l stop being customers, and you'll be out of business. Simple as that. Stop whining, fleet lag has existed in Eve almost as long as Eve has existed. Sorry, but you FW'ers aren't special. What I do the rest of the time
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:32:00 - [66] Originally by: Johannes Buckbeak See, this is how business works. You give me something I want, I give you money. What I want from this game is to have a good time, get into a nice fight and win or lose. What I DON'T want is to sit watching lag. I don't want to spend an hour getting ready for a fight, finally jumping in to a great looking battle and then just being frustrated. I get enough anger and frustration from real life, I come to the game to relax. So if the game just delivers frustration, I'll stop paying and go and play WoW instead. And you guys will all be out of a job. How's the Icelandic economy right now? Is it a good time to be looking for a job? If not I suggest that you get off your butts and fix the lag. If you can't or won't give your CUSTOMERS what they want, then they''l stop being customers, and you'll be out of business. Simple as that. all i needed to read to get a good laugh. There is no lag, the logs show nothing. And CCP is a multi-national company, they're just fine. And if you quit they lose a measly 15$ a month, but with you gone more people will want to join. So its actually proffitable to see you leave. Oh, and your stuffz, gif to mea Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
BrundleMeth Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:54:00 - [67] Edited by: BrundleMeth on 02/02/2009 18:55:49 This is all very interesting. I have only been playing for a few weeks but I am hooked. I wish I started years ago when it first came out but I was still into the now failing FPS games. (Sniff)... I never heard of EVE until just before Christmas. (Living in a cave I was)... I haven't been lucky enough (skilled enough) to be in big battles but the good thing for me is that I have wicked arthritis in my legs and feet. So I get some serious narcotics for the pain. So I am always happy, no matter where the lag is... Happy shooting...
Asuna Endorine	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:04:00 - [68] excellent point Zaracaan, that does not really constitute a real blob.. i have no idea why that would lag, similar fights are very smooth in 0.0(at least last time i checked) i presume it's a bug and it's probably being looked at. lag of course, is one of the hardest thing to spot before a new feature is released, because the devs really cant put the system under the same amount of stress that TQ predictably does
Zaracaan	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:15:00 - [69] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Stop whining, fleet lag has existed in Eve almost as long as Eve has existed. Sorry, but you FW'ers aren't special. On previous page a poster descripes how he had slide show lag in battle of 645 pilots and from the description it sounds like he had LESS lag (definetly not more)than our fight yesterday that involved total of 50 pilots (80 total on local). It's not whining to point out that there is something wrong there.
NutsAllmighty	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:51:00 - [70] I normally wouldn't complain, but the lag in FW has just gotten much worse over the last month or so. Johannes, and everyone else involved in FW, has a legitimate gripe as far as I'm concerned. If CCP does nothing to fix this, I'm going to start looking for a new internet space ship game. And NO, NONE OF U CLOWNS CAN HAZ MY STUFF!!

Minmatar Citizen 290574	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:45:00 - [71] can i have your stuff??? and btw welcome to fleet battles my friend
Smog890 Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2009.02.03 00:26:00 - [72] sign
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:30:00 - [73] Originally by: Zaracaan On previous page a poster descripes how he had slide show lag in battle of 645 pilots and from the description it sounds like he had LESS lag (definetly not more)than our fight yesterday that involved total of 50 pilots (80 total on local). It's not whining to point out that there is something wrong there. This has already been explained several times. The 80 local weren't all the people on the same server node. It could have been anything from 80 to several thousand. Likely the latter given your description of events. There's N server nodes (N is close to 200 IIRC - not sure). On each of those N servers you have S systems (well Jita has a node of its own AFAIK :-) ). Of course most of these servers will be dedicated to empire space as that's where most of the population is. So there might be 10 empire systems on 1 server and 40 0.0 systems on another (I'm making up these numbers for example purposes only). People are free to roam and can do whatever they want without CCP knowing in advance. On a regular day that empire server is idling by while a few people fight it out in empire low sec and hundreds others do some simple stuff like mining, flying around, etc... Then suddenly these systems have several FW battles going on in the same time frame in several of its systems, while a bigger fleet just moves thrrough several systems away - but still on same node - server is busy and lags - even though you only have 80 people you can see in local. They might be only 5% of the pilots on that server. Meanwhile that other node with the 40 0.0 systems has nothing going on in 36 of its systems, there ratting in 4 and mining in 2, big battle happens with several hundred people - but they are 98% of all people on that node. And if that was a pre-planned big attack on a jump bridge system with an announcement to CCP a day in advance they even got a server dedicated to that system. There simply is no easy/fast solution for this degree of flexibilty. FW is meant to be a casual way to quickly get into fights in the middle of high-pop-density empire. CCP is already getting the best hardware money can buy. 2-3 years ago when CCP bought RAMSANs (solid state "disk" systems to accelerate the database) an user here commented "that's why our order from IBM got delayed". The EVE cluster is a supercomputer already. You can either play EVE on it - or calculate next weeks weather forecast. They are upgrading hard-/ and software all the time. Go back and see the devblogs where they mention upgrades and most recently (around QR) stacklessIO and 64bit servers. And lag was improved over the years. A lot. But there's always be lag Other games have less lag? Sure. That's easy when you're not trying to achieve as much. I'm sure CCP could provide a lagless (except for client/network lag - happens more often than many here think) game. Just wouldn't be EVE. I rather play EVE with its problems than any other MMOG I know of (and most of them have their own technical problems anyway - without even offering the potential for big epic battles).
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:32:00 - [74] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Stop whining, fleet lag has existed in Eve almost as long as Eve has existed. Sorry, but you FW'ers aren't special. Interesting how everyone has an opinion without being informed. Have you tried a FW battle? I think not, otherwise you might have noticed that there is a discrepancy between 0.0 battles and FW battles, with the former being a lot smoother than the latter with the same fleet sizes. And this is something that has only recently become a problem. This isn't about being special, but being equitable. There is a phrase Abraham Lincoln used which I think is particularly salient: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:39:00 - [75] Originally by: NutsAllmighty And NO, NONE OF U CLOWNS CAN HAZ MY STUFF!! That's because you have that suspicion that you'll come back eventually. And right you are. :-) Please go and check out the competition. See you in a few months. ;-) You might call this arrogance. I call it experience. Of the people I was in contact with and really got into EVE for some months and left - most came back later. Story is always the same. Had fun (or not) playing another game (or plural) for a while. Started to miss EVE. Go and level up on random server 1234, do the instances in the pseudo MMOG where you're alone with your 1-40 buddies outside the city. Have fun with the end game raids/modules/whatever. (I'm not just talking about WOW - most share the same limitations) --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE
Col Callahan Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:41:00 - [76] Your stuff, my hanger, its a date
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:42:00 - [77] FW will benefit from wormholes especially direct links to 00 i see them going thro in small ratting gruops, no more gate camps should make things interesting
MobyMule Minmatar PoliCratton Technologies	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:38:00 - [78] Originally by: ollobrains2 FW will benefit from wormholes especially direct links to 00 i see them going thro in small ratting gruops, no more gate camps should make things interesting We shall see. It will be interesting to see the effects of it.


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