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Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 07:13:00 - [1] Edited by: Arvald on 02/02/2009 07:22:11 Just a friendly warning not to trus the corp's Columbias Johnson's journey or Middle school comedy club as they do not honor ransoms, i engaged one of their arbitrator then they uncloaked a curse which is fair enough but then i asked if i could pay 40m to go free, they agreed then blew me up anyway folowing is a tidbit of the conversation Arvald > 40m to go free? Auroni > ok Auroni > send Arvald > your not the oen scraming me DeathWarrior > send Arvald > isk sent Arvald > isk has been sent pelase disengage Auroni > ur fault DeathWarrior > ****** also heres a screenshot Linkage ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.02 07:21:00 - [2] I've always heard it's a donation if you offer to pay them, even if you use the word ransom and they agree. Since it's a donation they don't have to give you anything in return, and destroying your ship, despite whatever they might have said beforehand about letting you go, doesn't technically count as dishonoring a ransom. One of the asinine technicalities of PvP or something. Obviously it's still bad for business for those guys though since anyone who reads this thread won't be offering them any ISK henceforth.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 07:57:00 - [3] Yes, it's not a ransom when you're the one asking to go free.
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Navtiqes Yes, it's not a ransom when you're the one asking to go free. it is when they accept, atleast to any pirate worth his weight it is. besides just letting other people know not to trust them and that not all pirates are like this, i for one will always honor ransoms
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:18:00 - [5] Honour has nothing to do with it. It's about profit. If you get knocked into hull and the guy demands ransom to let you live, that's because his aims to earn more ISK by letting you go based on the fact that he's guessing you'd drop poor loot. And you might even come back to get ransomed again. If you ask for a ransom, that means there's a huge chance you have something precious that you don't want to lose. And the guy will blow you up hoping for the bigger profit. If you actually pay, that's your own fault. TL:DR Never offer to give away money.
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:23:00 - [6] Originally by: Navtiqes Honour has nothing to do with it. It's about profit. If you get knocked into hull and the guy demands ransom to let you live, that's because his aims to earn more ISK by letting you go based on the fact that he's guessing you'd drop poor loot. And you might even come back to get ransomed again. If you ask for a ransom, that means there's a huge chance you have something precious that you don't want to lose. And the guy will blow you up hoping for the bigger profit. If you actually pay, that's your own fault. TL:DR Never offer to give away money. and this ladys and gents is why no one pays ransoms to pirates anymore
Kylezanto Minmatar The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:27:00 - [7] According to the screenshot, it looks like only one of em dishonored the ransom.
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:29:00 - [8] Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 02/02/2009 08:29:10 Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Navtiqes Honour has nothing to do with it. It's about profit. If you get knocked into hull and the guy demands ransom to let you live, that's because his aims to earn more ISK by letting you go based on the fact that he's guessing you'd drop poor loot. And you might even come back to get ransomed again. If you ask for a ransom, that means there's a huge chance you have something precious that you don't want to lose. And the guy will blow you up hoping for the bigger profit. If you actually pay, that's your own fault. TL:DR Never offer to give away money. and this ladys and gents is why no one pays ransoms to pirates anymore Actually, he has a point Arvald. You gave him the isk, they never demanded a ransom. Just because I donated isk to a guy's wallet doesn't mean he'll let me go. Some pirates just shoot to kill and don't bother with ransoms. Sounds like this is why. I've actually encountered the people you fought and they were honorable within reason. Your just expecting too much. --Isaac
N'tek alar	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 02/02/2009 08:29:10 Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Navtiqes Honour has nothing to do with it. It's about profit. If you get knocked into hull and the guy demands ransom to let you live, that's because his aims to earn more ISK by letting you go based on the fact that he's guessing you'd drop poor loot. And you might even come back to get ransomed again. If you ask for a ransom, that means there's a huge chance you have something precious that you don't want to lose. And the guy will blow you up hoping for the bigger profit. If you actually pay, that's your own fault. TL:DR Never offer to give away money. and this ladys and gents is why no one pays ransoms to pirates anymore Actually, he has a point Arvald. You gave him the isk, they never demanded a ransom. Just because I donated isk to a guy's wallet doesn't mean he'll let me go. Some pirates just shoot to kill and don't bother with ransoms. Sounds like this is why. I've actually encountered the people you fought and they were honorable within reason. Your just expecting too much. --Isaac ACTUALLY, Arvald is right, If they agree to let him go for a ransom, Wether he was the one to suggest it or not, Then it IS in fact a ransom, They've still agreed. Just throwing isk at the pirate? Yeah, in that case i wouldn't expect him to stop shooting at all. I agree that it's their choice wether or not to honor ransoms, But if they don't, Well, Don't expect too many people to pay them, Same if they try to justify dishonoring ransoms with ** like "well he was the one to offer so it wasn't a ransom", That's bull**, They agreed to let him go for a ransom, They got the money, They blew him up, They didn't return the money, Therefor they can't be trusted to honor any ransom what so ever.
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:48:00 - [10] How the **** do you lose a vaga to that?
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Viper **zIe How the **** do you lose a vaga to that? was over confident and not paying attention -_-. that and i suck in hacs
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Kylezanto According to the screenshot, it looks like only one of em dishonored the ransom. it was the one who agreed and received the isk, thus in my mind all of them were at fault
Steve Celeste Caldari Paxton Industries	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Arvald in my mind all of them were at fault
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:32:00 - [14] Don't you run scams in Jita all the time Arvald? (I could be completely wrong since i forget everything ) Most people would take that as a donation... your ship going free was never mentioned, just "go free". Taking things literally has it's advantages
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:33:00 - [15] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 02/02/2009 09:34:34 This whole "you sent first" thing is pure bull**** and you know it. Stop nitpicking over the exact words each person used and get some common sense. When a victim sends ISK without your ransom demand (or sends ISK that is not exactly the ransom demand, etc), that's a donation. When a victim makes a ransom offer, you accept it, and he sends the ISK, that's a ransom. This is not complicated. It does not matter who initiated the offer, a deal was made, and CJJ and MIDD had better hope their next victims don't read the forums.
Lauren Sheaperd Minmatar Blood Money Bootcamp Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:59:00 - [16] I tried to warn you Arvald... I wasn't quick enough with the typing. Anyway, it's not the first time these guys have dishonored agreement. Last time they blobbed me with Curses for my Stabber... Goes to find proof ... Give me a bit.
craig0ss	Posted - 2009.02.02 10:30:00 - [17] i agree, a deal was made that wasnt kept, this in my eyes was an accepted fee for the release of the loosing party.......effectivly a paid ransom. If you did this to me you could expect a **** storm heading your way..........pirates who dont honor ransoms simply arnt pirates.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:06:00 - [18] this is why i dont bother ransoming anymore... nobody ****ing honors them anymore, so no-one in their right mind would pay up. At first I was like, I'm gonna violate you. But then I was like, I'm gonna violate you.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:40:00 - [19] ITT: people who fail to understand or use logic, and instead rather just lolpost. Regardless who initiates the idea of a ransom, if both parties agree it's an agreement and if one side breaks the agreement they're untrustworthy. Nothing wrong with that as such if that's your choice but somehow trying to backpedal or justify it is just silly. Fact is fact.
hellsknights SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:48:00 - [20] Edited by: hellsknights on 02/02/2009 11:48:52 Originally by: Navtiqes Yes, it's not a ransom when you're the one asking to go free. You sir are a moron....go back to newb school for the pirately challenged. If someones offers me 40 mil not to blow them up and i agree then guess what.....im letting them go. I rarely offer ransoms since i like to open my presents but if the offer is right ill take it and let my victim go. If you ditch out on such affairs, then your profit will go down and pirating is about profit...no Hells BTW this is my section on these forums so watch out newb
cpt Mark	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:53:00 - [21] that chat log doesn't even make sense, it seems more like two babbling idiots.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:53:00 - [22] Edited by: Navtiqes on 02/02/2009 11:53:05 Originally by: hellsknights ... You're not my real dad!
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:03:00 - [23] Originally by: Navtiqes Edited by: Navtiqes on 02/02/2009 11:53:05 Originally by: hellsknights ... You're not my real dad! i like how you quoted nothing cause i never used to listen to my dad either... you look familier, did i blow you up sometime? am i banned again now for offtopic posting mitnal?
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:10:00 - [24] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N you look familier, did i blow you up sometime? am i banned again now for offtopic posting mitnal? It's not off topic if the discussion naturally brought us there (not by much anyway). And I'm honoured that you almost remembered that I evemailed you last week ;) I checked the places you recommanded, but I ended up going to a place where I had a bunch of spots from earlier.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Navtiqes Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N you look familier, did i blow you up sometime? am i banned again now for offtopic posting mitnal? It's not off topic if the discussion naturally brought us there (not by much anyway). And I'm honoured that you almost remembered that I evemailed you last week ;) I checked the places you recommanded, but I ended up going to a place where I had a bunch of spots from earlier. eh nah that was an alt that sent me that message im sure... i really do think i did blow you up sometime <.< >.> lol shrugs At first I was like, I'm gonna violate you. But then I was like, I'm gonna violate you.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:23:00 - [26] They uncloaked a curse. Trying to decide if that beats the quad beam laser harbinger in that other dishonoured ransom thread, can't make up my mind. Still there's some sort of a patern here.
Geaux Tiger Tigris Cleptum Gaza	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:26:00 - [27] Given the poor wording of the victim by not specifying what "go free" entailed, I see no problem with what they did. They let him "go free" just minus one ship. If you are the victim offering a ransom, be sure to specify exactly what your ransom/offer is for. Otherwise, you leave it up to the pirate to decide. When I offered ransoms in the past, I always stated whether it meant ship/pod and a time frame they were free from me going after them again.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Geaux Tiger Given the poor wording of the victim by not specifying what "go free" entailed, I see no problem with what they did. They let him "go free" just minus one ship. If you are the victim offering a ransom, be sure to specify exactly what your ransom/offer is for. Otherwise, you leave it up to the pirate to decide. When I offered ransoms in the past, I always stated whether it meant ship/pod and a time frame they were free from me going after them again. stupid attitudes like this is why there are stupidly worded legal agreements on everything now. At first I was like, I'm gonna violate you. But then I was like, I'm gonna violate you.
Mirian Luvelle	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:14:00 - [29] Originally by: cpt Mark that chat log doesn't even make sense, it seems more like two babbling idiots. That's CJJ for you, pretty much everything they say is idiotic. But seriously, the best way to get back at them is to play on schoolnights, they aren't allowed to stay up that late.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:51:00 - [30] Hehe pirate tears are the sweetest in the EVE universe

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