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Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 07:13:00 - [1] Edited by: Arvald on 02/02/2009 07:22:11 Just a friendly warning not to trus the corp's Columbias Johnson's journey or Middle school comedy club as they do not honor ransoms, i engaged one of their arbitrator then they uncloaked a curse which is fair enough but then i asked if i could pay 40m to go free, they agreed then blew me up anyway folowing is a tidbit of the conversation Arvald > 40m to go free? Auroni > ok Auroni > send Arvald > your not the oen scraming me DeathWarrior > send Arvald > isk sent Arvald > isk has been sent pelase disengage Auroni > ur fault DeathWarrior > ****** also heres a screenshot Linkage ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.02 07:21:00 - [2] I've always heard it's a donation if you offer to pay them, even if you use the word ransom and they agree. Since it's a donation they don't have to give you anything in return, and destroying your ship, despite whatever they might have said beforehand about letting you go, doesn't technically count as dishonoring a ransom. One of the asinine technicalities of PvP or something. Obviously it's still bad for business for those guys though since anyone who reads this thread won't be offering them any ISK henceforth.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 07:57:00 - [3] Yes, it's not a ransom when you're the one asking to go free.
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Navtiqes Yes, it's not a ransom when you're the one asking to go free. it is when they accept, atleast to any pirate worth his weight it is. besides just letting other people know not to trust them and that not all pirates are like this, i for one will always honor ransoms
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:18:00 - [5] Honour has nothing to do with it. It's about profit. If you get knocked into hull and the guy demands ransom to let you live, that's because his aims to earn more ISK by letting you go based on the fact that he's guessing you'd drop poor loot. And you might even come back to get ransomed again. If you ask for a ransom, that means there's a huge chance you have something precious that you don't want to lose. And the guy will blow you up hoping for the bigger profit. If you actually pay, that's your own fault. TL:DR Never offer to give away money.
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:23:00 - [6] Originally by: Navtiqes Honour has nothing to do with it. It's about profit. If you get knocked into hull and the guy demands ransom to let you live, that's because his aims to earn more ISK by letting you go based on the fact that he's guessing you'd drop poor loot. And you might even come back to get ransomed again. If you ask for a ransom, that means there's a huge chance you have something precious that you don't want to lose. And the guy will blow you up hoping for the bigger profit. If you actually pay, that's your own fault. TL:DR Never offer to give away money. and this ladys and gents is why no one pays ransoms to pirates anymore
Kylezanto Minmatar The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:27:00 - [7] According to the screenshot, it looks like only one of em dishonored the ransom.
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:29:00 - [8] Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 02/02/2009 08:29:10 Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Navtiqes Honour has nothing to do with it. It's about profit. If you get knocked into hull and the guy demands ransom to let you live, that's because his aims to earn more ISK by letting you go based on the fact that he's guessing you'd drop poor loot. And you might even come back to get ransomed again. If you ask for a ransom, that means there's a huge chance you have something precious that you don't want to lose. And the guy will blow you up hoping for the bigger profit. If you actually pay, that's your own fault. TL:DR Never offer to give away money. and this ladys and gents is why no one pays ransoms to pirates anymore Actually, he has a point Arvald. You gave him the isk, they never demanded a ransom. Just because I donated isk to a guy's wallet doesn't mean he'll let me go. Some pirates just shoot to kill and don't bother with ransoms. Sounds like this is why. I've actually encountered the people you fought and they were honorable within reason. Your just expecting too much. --Isaac
N'tek alar	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 02/02/2009 08:29:10 Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Navtiqes Honour has nothing to do with it. It's about profit. If you get knocked into hull and the guy demands ransom to let you live, that's because his aims to earn more ISK by letting you go based on the fact that he's guessing you'd drop poor loot. And you might even come back to get ransomed again. If you ask for a ransom, that means there's a huge chance you have something precious that you don't want to lose. And the guy will blow you up hoping for the bigger profit. If you actually pay, that's your own fault. TL:DR Never offer to give away money. and this ladys and gents is why no one pays ransoms to pirates anymore Actually, he has a point Arvald. You gave him the isk, they never demanded a ransom. Just because I donated isk to a guy's wallet doesn't mean he'll let me go. Some pirates just shoot to kill and don't bother with ransoms. Sounds like this is why. I've actually encountered the people you fought and they were honorable within reason. Your just expecting too much. --Isaac ACTUALLY, Arvald is right, If they agree to let him go for a ransom, Wether he was the one to suggest it or not, Then it IS in fact a ransom, They've still agreed. Just throwing isk at the pirate? Yeah, in that case i wouldn't expect him to stop shooting at all. I agree that it's their choice wether or not to honor ransoms, But if they don't, Well, Don't expect too many people to pay them, Same if they try to justify dishonoring ransoms with ** like "well he was the one to offer so it wasn't a ransom", That's bull**, They agreed to let him go for a ransom, They got the money, They blew him up, They didn't return the money, Therefor they can't be trusted to honor any ransom what so ever.
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:48:00 - [10] How the **** do you lose a vaga to that?
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Viper **zIe How the **** do you lose a vaga to that? was over confident and not paying attention -_-. that and i suck in hacs
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Kylezanto According to the screenshot, it looks like only one of em dishonored the ransom. it was the one who agreed and received the isk, thus in my mind all of them were at fault
Steve Celeste Caldari Paxton Industries	Posted - 2009.02.02 08:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Arvald in my mind all of them were at fault
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:32:00 - [14] Don't you run scams in Jita all the time Arvald? (I could be completely wrong since i forget everything ) Most people would take that as a donation... your ship going free was never mentioned, just "go free". Taking things literally has it's advantages
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:33:00 - [15] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 02/02/2009 09:34:34 This whole "you sent first" thing is pure bull**** and you know it. Stop nitpicking over the exact words each person used and get some common sense. When a victim sends ISK without your ransom demand (or sends ISK that is not exactly the ransom demand, etc), that's a donation. When a victim makes a ransom offer, you accept it, and he sends the ISK, that's a ransom. This is not complicated. It does not matter who initiated the offer, a deal was made, and CJJ and MIDD had better hope their next victims don't read the forums.
Lauren Sheaperd Minmatar Blood Money Bootcamp Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:59:00 - [16] I tried to warn you Arvald... I wasn't quick enough with the typing. Anyway, it's not the first time these guys have dishonored agreement. Last time they blobbed me with Curses for my Stabber... Goes to find proof ... Give me a bit.
craig0ss	Posted - 2009.02.02 10:30:00 - [17] i agree, a deal was made that wasnt kept, this in my eyes was an accepted fee for the release of the loosing party.......effectivly a paid ransom. If you did this to me you could expect a **** storm heading your way..........pirates who dont honor ransoms simply arnt pirates.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:06:00 - [18] this is why i dont bother ransoming anymore... nobody ****ing honors them anymore, so no-one in their right mind would pay up. At first I was like, I'm gonna violate you. But then I was like, I'm gonna violate you.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:40:00 - [19] ITT: people who fail to understand or use logic, and instead rather just lolpost. Regardless who initiates the idea of a ransom, if both parties agree it's an agreement and if one side breaks the agreement they're untrustworthy. Nothing wrong with that as such if that's your choice but somehow trying to backpedal or justify it is just silly. Fact is fact.
hellsknights SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:48:00 - [20] Edited by: hellsknights on 02/02/2009 11:48:52 Originally by: Navtiqes Yes, it's not a ransom when you're the one asking to go free. You sir are a moron....go back to newb school for the pirately challenged. If someones offers me 40 mil not to blow them up and i agree then guess what.....im letting them go. I rarely offer ransoms since i like to open my presents but if the offer is right ill take it and let my victim go. If you ditch out on such affairs, then your profit will go down and pirating is about profit...no Hells BTW this is my section on these forums so watch out newb
cpt Mark	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:53:00 - [21] that chat log doesn't even make sense, it seems more like two babbling idiots.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:53:00 - [22] Edited by: Navtiqes on 02/02/2009 11:53:05 Originally by: hellsknights ... You're not my real dad!
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:03:00 - [23] Originally by: Navtiqes Edited by: Navtiqes on 02/02/2009 11:53:05 Originally by: hellsknights ... You're not my real dad! i like how you quoted nothing cause i never used to listen to my dad either... you look familier, did i blow you up sometime? am i banned again now for offtopic posting mitnal?
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:10:00 - [24] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N you look familier, did i blow you up sometime? am i banned again now for offtopic posting mitnal? It's not off topic if the discussion naturally brought us there (not by much anyway). And I'm honoured that you almost remembered that I evemailed you last week ;) I checked the places you recommanded, but I ended up going to a place where I had a bunch of spots from earlier.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Navtiqes Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N you look familier, did i blow you up sometime? am i banned again now for offtopic posting mitnal? It's not off topic if the discussion naturally brought us there (not by much anyway). And I'm honoured that you almost remembered that I evemailed you last week ;) I checked the places you recommanded, but I ended up going to a place where I had a bunch of spots from earlier. eh nah that was an alt that sent me that message im sure... i really do think i did blow you up sometime <.< >.> lol shrugs At first I was like, I'm gonna violate you. But then I was like, I'm gonna violate you.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:23:00 - [26] They uncloaked a curse. Trying to decide if that beats the quad beam laser harbinger in that other dishonoured ransom thread, can't make up my mind. Still there's some sort of a patern here.
Geaux Tiger Tigris Cleptum Gaza	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:26:00 - [27] Given the poor wording of the victim by not specifying what "go free" entailed, I see no problem with what they did. They let him "go free" just minus one ship. If you are the victim offering a ransom, be sure to specify exactly what your ransom/offer is for. Otherwise, you leave it up to the pirate to decide. When I offered ransoms in the past, I always stated whether it meant ship/pod and a time frame they were free from me going after them again.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Geaux Tiger Given the poor wording of the victim by not specifying what "go free" entailed, I see no problem with what they did. They let him "go free" just minus one ship. If you are the victim offering a ransom, be sure to specify exactly what your ransom/offer is for. Otherwise, you leave it up to the pirate to decide. When I offered ransoms in the past, I always stated whether it meant ship/pod and a time frame they were free from me going after them again. stupid attitudes like this is why there are stupidly worded legal agreements on everything now. At first I was like, I'm gonna violate you. But then I was like, I'm gonna violate you.
Mirian Luvelle	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:14:00 - [29] Originally by: cpt Mark that chat log doesn't even make sense, it seems more like two babbling idiots. That's CJJ for you, pretty much everything they say is idiotic. But seriously, the best way to get back at them is to play on schoolnights, they aren't allowed to stay up that late.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:51:00 - [30] Hehe pirate tears are the sweetest in the EVE universe
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:58:00 - [31] In light of all that's transpired here this morning, I'd like to detract any former statements insinuating the proceedings I'd be enclined to follow if prompted with said dilemma, because having taken the problem to heart I think I'd be leaning towards rejection of the terms in question as per my desire for collecting missives of various felled objects. And K1RTH smells.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:03:00 - [32] Middle school comedy club are known for not honoring ransoms and there was another thread about it. However, 5 % of the killed ransomees (is that actually a proper word??) will come to C&P to write their story, but only 0.0000005% of the potential victims come to read about dishonored ransoms. Anyway, since I'm here already, here comes the obligatory: The Guristas Associates honor their ransoms. Pay us and life, don't and die...
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:14:00 - [33] Edited by: Sol''Kanar on 02/02/2009 14:13:59 Originally by: H Lecter blabbity blab, I'm so honourable. Edited your post for brevity. <3
Mickey Simon Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've always heard it's a donation if you offer to pay them, even if you use the word ransom and they agree. I don't know. If someone offers to pay me money for the survival of their ship, and I accept, I have to honour it as a ransom. Maybe pirates work differently, but that's how we operate if we ever do decide to take a ransom for some random off-contract target /shrug
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:50:00 - [35] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Edited your post for brevity. <3 Thanks mate - you know how I get carried away when stroking my honor-epeen
Alia Xii	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:18:00 - [36] Pirate > 40m to go free Victim > Sent ^^ That is a ransom Victim > How much? Pirate > 40m Victim > Sent ^^ That is also a ransom IMO being in receipt of money to buy their release, no matter who initiates it - is a ransom. It should be honoured. None of this "donation" bull****. If they pay, you release them. If you don't and pop them anyway you're word means jack. At the end of the day, you only harm yourselves and other pirates. If you really want a killmail - DON'T RANSOM IN THE FIRST PLACE
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:22:00 - [37] Originally by: Alia Xii Victim > How much? Pirate > 40m Victim > Sent ^^ That is also a ransom I disagree, if only for semantic reasons. If it were me, I'd give them the price of my ship, and claim ignorance. Victim > Hey! I paid you! Why did you pop me? Tchell > You said, "How much?" so I told you. I wasn't lying. My ship cost me 40M. Victim > D'oh! I meant how much for the ransom! Tchell > Oh! Well, don't you feel silly? Next time, let me know that's what you meant. This game is all about communication.
Mickey Simon Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:27:00 - [38] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Alia Xii Victim > How much? Pirate > 40m Victim > Sent ^^ That is also a ransom I disagree, if only for semantic reasons. If it were me, I'd give them the price of my ship, and claim ignorance. Victim > Hey! I paid you! Why did you pop me? Tchell > You said, "How much?" so I told you. I wasn't lying. My ship cost me 40M. Victim > D'oh! I meant how much for the ransom! Tchell > Oh! Well, don't you feel silly? Next time, let me know that's what you meant. This game is all about communication. So basically, you understand entirely what he means, but choose to dishonour it anyway and blame the semantics of what happened I'm not saying that's a good/bad thing, just that I hardly think you can write something so obvious off as not being a ransom. I mean, by all means don't accept it and just blow him up. If he just wires you ISK without you saying anything - that's different, but the moment you mention money and he wires it and you accept - that's a ransom in my books. Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . .
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Mickey Simon So basically, you understand entirely what he means, but choose to dishonour it anyway and blame the semantics of what happened I'm not saying that's a good/bad thing, just that I hardly think you can write something so obvious off as not being a ransom. I mean, by all means don't accept it and just blow him up. If he just wires you ISK without you saying anything - that's different, but the moment you mention money and he wires it and you accept - that's a ransom in my books. I guess this is where some don't accept the "ransom / donation" part of the pirates' argument, and I completely understand where you're coming from. It's really a fine line. I always believe that if someone is going to blow up your ship, they're going to blow up your ship, and if you offer ISK to escape, then you'd better be very, very clear in how you ask. If someone offers you a ransom, then you have a much better chance of escaping if they start the conversation themselves. Then, of course, you have every right to complain if a ransom is not honoured. I think the logs are really the deciding factor in all of this. We're Recruiting!
Sindavathar Caldari Columbias Johnson's Journey	Posted - 2009.02.02 16:41:00 - [40] Firstly, Originally by: Alia Xii If you really want a killmail - DON'T RANSOM IN THE FIRST PLACE I'll reply to that with: Originally by: Arvald Arvald > 40m to go free? Was the above us ransoming? Secondly, We do honor ransoms. You can ask two CEO's in the game one: Philus Civrus of Quebec coalition (maybe spelt right). And the second CEO of Quality Assurance is of on military exercises so his second in command should do. Both corps were ransomed to end A war and both were honored. No second wardec followed and they were left alone.
54031355	Posted - 2009.02.02 16:54:00 - [41] So would this also be a scam? here Obama is getting money donated and all we get in return is a tshirt? And the donated money is not tax-deductible as a charitable contribution for Federal income tax purposes. He's getting freaking free money from stupid people. Whats he going to do with this money?
N'tek alar	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Sindavathar Firstly, Originally by: Alia Xii If you really want a killmail - DON'T RANSOM IN THE FIRST PLACE I'll reply to that with: Originally by: Arvald Arvald > 40m to go free? Was the above us ransoming? Secondly, We do honor ransoms. You can ask two CEO's in the game one: Philus Civrus of Quebec coalition (maybe spelt right). And the second CEO of Quality Assurance is of on military exercises so his second in command should do. Both corps were ransomed to end A war and both were honored. No second wardec followed and they were left alone. You agreed to the terms he offered, So yes, You were indeed ransoming him. As for the claim that you honor ransoms because you've done it at times in the past... That means you honor SOME ransoms, Not that you honor ransoms.
Ducyen Phung	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:39:00 - [43] Edited by: Ducyen Phung on 02/02/2009 17:40:24 Well Today, the Senate is scheduled to begin debate on the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan. Iunno but it might have started already. The money that was donated was used towards his Election Campaign, so all in all it was a good cause. The Democrats admitted that it's going to be a tough fight to get Obama's economic stimulus plan passed with both parties supporting, but everyone is optimistic that it can be done. The full Senate will vote on its version of the bill Wednesday. Should the Senate and House pass different versions, the two bills would have to be conferenced together. Then both chambers would have to vote on the conference version. Last Wednesday, the House successfully passed an $819 billion version of this plan. So I think that the money which was donated to his Campaign was used wisely. Hopefully he will turn the USA around and contribute to fixing the now crumbling world's economy.
spynah	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:54:00 - [44] Edited by: spynah on 02/02/2009 17:54:46 Obama - Give me 30 bux person - sure! Obama - gives tshirt to person lululul Democrats better not screw this one up in the senate and really target the TAX CUTS, not for the RICH, but for the working middle class. I believe many republicans would vote for if the infrastructure spending was higher!
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:59:00 - [45] Originally by: Ducyen Phung Last Wednesday, the House successfully passed an $819 billion version of this plan. You all want to bring politics into this? Fine. I'm fairly certain that if not one of the "loyal opposition" in the House voted for the bill that President Obamas honeymoon is over. If not a single House Republican was scared to vote against the bill it tells you something about that bill. If you have moderate Democrats in the Senate voicing complaints about the bill coming from the House it tells you something about that bill that was "successfully passed" in the House. Either the President needs to reign in the Democrats in the House or we are going to have four more years of "she said he said" crap. Me, I just want em to live within their means. I kind of wish I could go to someone and say "Dude, I just spent way more money then I have so give me some". I have learned that if you throw money at someone (or something) that does not know how to control their spending all you are doing is throwing money away. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:09:00 - [46] Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 02/02/2009 18:11:08 Originally by: Sindavathar Was the above us ransoming? From my POV, and following up from the above statements, yes. Your Corpmate(s) was/were offered 40M to permit Arvald to go free, and by his own post, he accepted it. (If, of course, you agree with my position on semantics of the conversation.) Consider it this way... A man has another man tied to a chair, with a gun to his head, with every intent to pull the trigger. The man in the chair screams, "I'll give you anything you want if you let me go! I have 1 million dollars, and I'll give it to you if you let me go." The man with the gun says, "Ok. Give me the money." The other man, expecting to be set free after paying the first man 1 million dollars, is summarily executed. This is, in effect, the flow of the original conversation, and I believe you'll agree with me that the example above is a fair representation of a ransom that was dishonored. The point is not that he didn't intend to ransom the victim originally. The point is that, during the course of the conversation, a payment was offered for the sole purpose of survival, and this agreement was not honoured.
54031355	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:10:00 - [47] Well in Canada's government is similar to that. We have the Liberals and Conservatives mainly in power. Theres also the NDP and Partis Quebecois and Green Party, no idea how the green party got into power anyway. The Conservatives want to save us money. Being lowering tax rates. But if they lower the tax rates that kicks everyone in the a$$. Because when they lower the tax rates they have to pull money from elsewhere. This elsewhere is our health benefits, schools, etc. When the Liberals were in power all was nice but then the population went. "O HEY! lets give these guys a try we've had it nice for to long." When Bush was in power no one still knows 100% for sure as to why the USA invaded IRAQ. But I will always find it funny that the CIA or whichever organization trained and equipped the Taliban. And then they kicked their master in the groin and ran away giggling.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.02 19:53:00 - [48] Originally by: 54031355 When Bush was in power no one still knows 100% for sure as to why the USA invaded IRAQ. But I will always find it funny that the CIA or whichever organization trained and equipped the Taliban. And then they kicked their master in the groin and ran away giggling. The CIA gave weapons to the Taliban because the Soviet Union (not Russia) was in Afghanistan at the time. The U.S. did not like the USSR at that time and wanted payback for Vietnam. So the U.S. gave em weapons without thinking what will happen with those weapons after the USSR was kicked out of Afghanistan. And the U.S. did not care what would happen when the USSR pulled out and left a political vacuum. After all what could a little bitty country like Afghanistan do? If you don't know your history you are condemned to repeat it. I think a lot of our leaders skipped History when they went to school. Consequences of ones actions can bit you in the rear later on down the road. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Le Poupon Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:04:00 - [49] Originally by: Traidor Disloyal Originally by: 54031355 When Bush was in power no one still knows 100% for sure as to why the USA invaded IRAQ. But I will always find it funny that the CIA or whichever organization trained and equipped the Taliban. And then they kicked their master in the groin and ran away giggling. The CIA gave weapons to the Taliban because the Soviet Union (not Russia) was in Afghanistan at the time. The U.S. did not like the USSR at that time and wanted payback for Vietnam. So the U.S. gave em weapons without thinking what will happen with those weapons after the USSR was kicked out of Afghanistan. And the U.S. did not care what would happen when the USSR pulled out and left a political vacuum. After all what could a little bitty country like Afghanistan do? If you don't know your history you are condemned to repeat it. I think a lot of our leaders skipped History when they went to school. Consequences of ones actions can bit you in the rear later on down the road. They also provided the training for said Taliban forces. In addition to which the media hailed them as heros. Take a quick peek at Rambo 3 I believe( may need confirmation as to which Rambo it acctualy was. It was kind of like a reversal of Vietnam in a way. Post Cold War and in steps Mr Bush the first and the people of America are no longer afraid, the war is done and people are happy. Enter Gulf War and the need for a new enemy. <<<<<<<<<<<<<Ohh look we already trained these guys>>>>>>>>>> LETS GO TO WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST! And look around. Suddenly everyones afraid again. Thankyou very much to the Bush family (of which Mr Obama is a relative may I add.) Just my point of view and quite an extreme one I know. I'd like to think its logical, maybe I'm wrong. But I think if you want to be Superman you need to make your own Luther first.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:58:00 - [50] Edited by: Vrabac on 02/02/2009 20:58:46 Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Alia Xii Victim > How much? Pirate > 40m Victim > Sent ^^ That is also a ransom I disagree I noticed you seem to have lot of opinions for someone who seems to do nothing else but salvage wrecks in high sec and get killed in that same high sec. Now please don't point me to the links proving your enormous pirating and general pvp experiences because I already laughed my arse off looking at them. Note that I'm not bashing your playstyle, I actually find it amusing. I'm making fun of the fact you somehow seem to be called for opinion where you obviously lack any sort of experience, writing lot of posts that all end up meaning nonsense. Now to the subject, that IS a ransom. Ransom is a matter of trust, defending a case of dishonoring it based on the way it was formulated is ridiculous. Saying it's ok to shoot someone who payed because he asked to be ransomed first makes no sense, there is no in-game mechanic that will prevent people from killing that ship no matter how the matter was spelled out in chat. It is purely based on trust the person who is getting ransomed puts into person who is doing the ransoming - and they obviously both understand what is going on if something like that managed to happen. That said, I don't really propagate any sort of e-bushido internet code of honor sort of bullshiet, it's simply a matter of common decency. Dishonoring ransom is ugly thing to do, since it's on personal level, unlike simply warping in and WTFBBQPWNING someone, however helpless and inferior, which includes no direct human-human interaction at all. After common decency comes the business part where you have the opportunity to build a name for yourself as someone who can be trusted at ransoming, or ruin it. It's similar to scamming really. Make a contract for a plain raven, name it Raven Navy Issue, set price 200mil, drag it into Jita local. Some guy accepts it... LOL You havent cheated anyone really, it's all there black on white, the game provides the means to any literate person to recognize what is he buying and for how much isk. That person was careless or in hurry or greedy or just plain stupid- in any case his own fault. But if you make a verbal agreement with someone and get cheated on it, that's ugly since it involved trust and could never involve anything more than trust since the person who is being cheated couldn't use any sort of in-game means to make sure the one who cheated him will keep his word. Or even in case he could he decided not to, for example gave some item on direct trade to be hauled instead of creating courier contract with collateral because he placed trust into the cheating party - it's still essentially wrong. I'm ranting, in short ransom is a ransom no matter who proposed it. As things are I wouldn't pay ransom to pretty much anyone any more, and that comes from someone who was -10 for most of my eve playing time, I don't bother asking victims any more myself. There are some corps that are well known for keeping their word and those are of course exceptions, but if some random dude somehow manages to get me in a position where he can ransom me, I'd reject. Too many "LULZ PWNED U NOOB HAHAHA" sort of people around tbh, as seen in this thread among other things.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:14:00 - [51] Originally by: Vrabac I noticed you seem to have lot of opinions for someone who seems to do nothing else but salvage wrecks in high sec and get killed in that same high sec. What's your point? Originally by: Vrabac Now please don't point me to the links proving your enormous pirating and general pvp experiences because I already laughed my arse off looking at them. You new here? Must be. Last time I checked, I'm not one to go off and wave my ePeen around via killboard links. Yours are snazzy, btw. (Oh, and tell Nahnil I appreciate the flattering choice of portraits. It's always nice to meet a fan.) Originally by: Vrabac Note that I'm not bashing your playstyle, I actually find it amusing. I'm making fun of the fact you somehow seem to be called for opinion where you obviously lack any sort of experience, writing lot of posts that all end up meaning nonsense. Perhaps you could train "Reading Comprehension" past I? I thought my opinion was quite understandable, personally. While you're at it, look up the term "Internet Forum". You might just find that it's a place where everybody's opinion can be heard, and not just those who think their nads hang lower than anyone else's.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:18:00 - [52] Originally by: Le Poupon LETS GO TO WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST! This is not aimed at you Le Poupon. I just didn't want to quote your whole post. A lot of people don't seem to understand the Middle East. They have blood feuds going back thousands of years. If someone wants to step into that mess one needs to be prepared for the long haul and not expect for everyone to play nice within a four year period. I always smile when the U.S. President, U.S. Secretary of State, or someone from Congress goes in there and expects their winning smile to solve everyone's problems. And the news media (right, left, center) doesn't help one bit. They seem to have skipped their history lessons also. A lot of the mess that the Middle East is in now (and Africa for that matter) can be laid at the feet of the Colonial Powers that had control of those areas before the start of WW1. What were they thinking when they created new nations without thinking about tribal land? The U.S. and U.S.S.R. can take some more blame due to the fact they played countries off of each other. And now that the U.S. is essentially the only world power (until China gets its act together) they (we) like to mess things up because we want everyone to be like us. A democratic country. Which is really friggen stupid. My opinion. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn I appreciate the flattering choice of portraits. It's always nice to meet a fan. That char being 9 months older than yours makes your statement a nonsense wouldn't you agree. Not to mention only link here is yours. Still I'm thankful you decided to do some free promotion for my corp. Your opinion can be heared and there is obviously nothing I can do about it - this being internet forum. Than again smart people usually don't talk about things they know little about, something you do too much. It is not illegal of course, if you understood me that way.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:31:00 - [54] Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 02/02/2009 21:32:22 Originally by: Vrabac That char being 9 months older than yours makes your statement a nonsense wouldn't you agree. Not in the least. Shall I link you to the place where you can pay to have your character's portrait changed, perhaps? (...and, by all means, tell me it's not possible. I'll wait.) Originally by: Vrabac Than again smart people usually don't talk about things they know little about, something you do too much. You left out "in my opinion" at the end of your statement. Oh, and as for my knowing 'little about' PvP, I know more than enough when to fight and when not to, as well as when I care to lose a ship or not in the pursuit of personal enjoyment. Some of us play the game with our both our hands above the table, if you know what I mean. "And just because you're 'smart', it doesn't mean you are not tough. .... Sun Tzu" We're Recruiting!
Le Poupon Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 02/02/2009 21:32:22 Originally by: Vrabac That char being 9 months older than yours makes your statement a nonsense wouldn't you agree. Not in the least. Shall I link you to the place where you can pay to have your character's portrait changed, perhaps? (...and, by all means, tell me it's not possible. I'll wait.) Originally by: Vrabac Than again smart people usually don't talk about things they know little about, something you do too much. You left out "in my opinion" at the end of your statement. Oh, and as for my knowing 'little about' PvP, I know more than enough when to fight and when not to, as well as when I care to lose a ship or not in the pursuit of personal enjoyment. Some of us play the game with our both our hands above the table, if you know what I mean. "And just because you're 'smart', it doesn't mean you are not tough" ..... Sun Tzu Fixed
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Le Poupon Fixed Damn, that edit was hard to find. Thank you!
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn "And just because you're 'smart', it doesn't mean you are not tough. .... Sun Tzu" Says a guy who would break a ransom provided it's formulated in a certain way... if only he ever was in situation to do it in the first place. You're neither smart nor tough matey. You just post a lot. And you fall in love with pixels way too easily. Not to mention that does not sound like Sun Tzu to me. Been long since I read it but that sounds like a nike commercial.
ShadowMaiden Amarr Metal Machine	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:43:00 - [58] Originally by: Arvald Edited by: Arvald on 02/02/2009 07:22:11 Just a friendly warning not to trus the corp's Columbias Johnson's journey or Middle school comedy club as they do not honor ransoms, i engaged one of their arbitrator then they uncloaked a curse which is fair enough but then i asked if i could pay 40m to go free, they agreed then blew me up anyway folowing is a tidbit of the conversation Arvald > 40m to go free? Auroni > ok Auroni > send Arvald > your not the oen scraming me DeathWarrior > send Arvald > isk sent Arvald > isk has been sent pelase disengage Auroni > ur fault DeathWarrior > ****** also heres a screenshot Linkage Don't look now, but they've run off with your spell-check too...
Koken blackdude	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:13:00 - [59] We middle school comedy club honur our ransomes and what this victum has nigleted to inform u is about the back up he had in system making his ransome just a ploy to stall for time. Notice in the pic his gang member plus OBAMA RULESSSSSSSS.
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:24:00 - [60] Originally by: Koken blackdude Edited by: Koken blackdude on 02/02/2009 22:17:01 We middle school comedy club honur our ransomes and what this victum has nigleted to inform u is about the back up he had in system making his ransome just a ploy to stall for time. Notice in the pic his gang member plus OBAMA RULESSSSSSSS. woops posted with alt and what -10 dude ask for a ransome anyway. well i would have left if the person i payed the ransom to would have disabled his warp scrambler, that and payed it about 3 seconds after he accepted >_> ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck
Alchemos Gallente Middle School Comedy Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:29:00 - [61] "Barack Obama the Antichrist?" I do not believe he is. However, he is seen around the world as a messiah, a savior with a cult-like following. He has a socialistic ideology and is an articulate promoter of global governance: taking away national sovereignty using issues like "global warming", "global terrorism" and the "global financial crisis". Keep an eye on RFID Chip Implants, Biometrics, Censorship, and our growing "Surveillance Society".
Ciel Drax	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:33:00 - [62] Edited by: Ciel Drax on 02/02/2009 22:33:44 O_O
Sindavathar Caldari Columbias Johnson's Journey	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:35:00 - [63] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Koken blackdude Edited by: Koken blackdude on 02/02/2009 22:17:01 We middle school comedy club honur our ransomes and what this victum has nigleted to inform u is about the back up he had in system making his ransome just a ploy to stall for time. Notice in the pic his gang member plus OBAMA RULESSSSSSSS. woops posted with alt and what -10 dude ask for a ransome anyway. well i would have left if the person i payed the ransom to would have disabled his warp scrambler, that and payed it about 3 seconds after he accepted >_> dude. did you not atk him first? then get screwed? and try to weasle your way out?
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:47:00 - [64] Originally by: Sindavathar Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Koken blackdude Edited by: Koken blackdude on 02/02/2009 22:17:01 We middle school comedy club honur our ransomes and what this victum has nigleted to inform u is about the back up he had in system making his ransome just a ploy to stall for time. Notice in the pic his gang member plus OBAMA RULESSSSSSSS. woops posted with alt and what -10 dude ask for a ransome anyway. well i would have left if the person i payed the ransom to would have disabled his warp scrambler, that and payed it about 3 seconds after he accepted >_> dude. did you not atk him first? then get screwed? and try to weasle your way out? read the op
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:08:00 - [65] Originally by: Arvald read the op the captain refuses, he is awash with your tears
Auroni	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:29:00 - [66] Does this make me famous ^_^

CCP Mitnal C C P CCP	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:37:00 - [67] Cleaned. Political discussion removed.

Dani SP Rupture Farms Mining	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:41:00 - [68] It's your fault if you sent a donation to a pirate... would never get the ransoms thing.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:43:00 - [69] Originally by: Vrabac You're neither smart nor tough matey. You just post a lot. And you fall in love with pixels way too easily. Riiiiggghhht. You show me something you've done that doesn't include pressing F1-F8 and maybe I'll be as impressed with you as you are, son.
Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:49:00 - [70] Why don't you go cry into your Harry Potter bedsheets about it?
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:56:00 - [71] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Why don't you go cry into your Harry Potter bedsheets about it? hey hey woah woah woah...harry potter? seriously?.....everyone knows i use sailor moon bedsheets ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck
Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:58:00 - [72] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Why don't you go cry into your Harry Potter bedsheets about it? hey hey woah woah woah...harry potter? seriously?.....everyone knows i use sailor moon bedsheets It's impressive that you would admit beating your meat to cartoons when we've only just met.
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:59:00 - [73] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Why don't you go cry into your Harry Potter bedsheets about it? hey hey woah woah woah...harry potter? seriously?.....everyone knows i use sailor moon bedsheets It's impressive that you would admit beating your meat to cartoons when we've only just met. its what i do baby pops collar ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck
Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.02.03 00:00:00 - [74] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Why don't you go cry into your Harry Potter bedsheets about it? hey hey woah woah woah...harry potter? seriously?.....everyone knows i use sailor moon bedsheets It's impressive that you would admit beating your meat to cartoons when we've only just met. its what i do baby pops collar End yourself.
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.03 00:01:00 - [75] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon End yourself. wanna make out? ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.03 00:05:00 - [76] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Vrabac You're neither smart nor tough matey. You just post a lot. And you fall in love with pixels way too easily. Riiiiggghhht. You show me something you've done that doesn't include pressing F1-F8 and maybe I'll be as impressed with you as you are, son. You see, mom, you keep making logical errors. For example you can reread my post and find the place where I talk about me being good in any way. It is your construct. What I said is that you don't know what you're talking about. And you obviously don't since you don't even know what I said. Also I said I've been -10 for most of my playing time. That's about as much as I talked about me. YOU than provide a link to BC to a character who has more battleship kills than you got fried interface circuits in your life. I think it's you who are impressed tbh, because for us it's just everyday gameplay. Apart from that, I got most my weapons grouped. It's usually F1-F4, or in some really dumb cases like with geddon just F1. Imagine I press F1 and stuff dies, utter no-brainer. That's how awesome I am. You can now quote me saying I'm awesome and write what you wrote above, it would make some sense if this whole thing wouldn't be irony. Now why don't you run along and practice formulating ransom demands on that yellow centus lord wreck over there? Or press F1 on it, you can imagine being me and stuff. And don't forget, if he doesn't specify what's the isk for, it's ok to pop- i mean salvage it!
5yndr0m3 Caldari Letiferi Praedones Wong Thong Crew	Posted - 2009.02.03 00:08:00 - [77] Originally by: Koken blackdude Edited by: Koken blackdude on 02/02/2009 22:17:01 We middle school comedy club honur our ransomes and what this victum has nigleted to inform u is about the back up he had in system making his ransome just a ploy to stall for time. Notice in the pic his gang member plus OBAMA RULESSSSSSSS. woops posted with alt and what -10 dude ask for a ransome anyway. No, you dont honor ransoms. This content of the OP proves otherwise.
Ducyen Phung Gallente Shadow Insurgents	Posted - 2009.02.03 00:20:00 - [78] So who beats their meat to sailor moon?!
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.03 00:23:00 - [79] Originally by: Ducyen Phung So who beats their meat to sailor moon?! raises hand ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck
Phaezon	Posted - 2009.02.03 00:24:00 - [80] WTH HAPPENED TO OBAMA?!
Ducyen Phung Gallente Shadow Insurgents	Posted - 2009.02.03 00:27:00 - [81] Jesus chr1st you sick bast@rd
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.03 01:04:00 - [82] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Nexus Kinnon End yourself. wanna make out? The only question is, who is Jack Lemmon and who is Walther Matthau?? -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.03 01:05:00 - [83] Originally by: Captain Pompous The only question is, who is Jack Lemmon and who is Walther Matthau?? No. The only question is, was that 2 questions?
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.03 01:07:00 - [84] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Captain Pompous The only question is, who is Jack Lemmon and who is Walther Matthau?? No. The only question is, was that 2 questions? "No" is not an answer to my question Because I may restate the question as who out of the two poasters quoted corresponds to which character in The Odd Couple -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.03 01:09:00 - [85] Originally by: Captain Pompous "No" is not an answer to my question Because I may restate the question as who out of the two poasters quoted corresponds to which character in The Odd Couple No is a perfectly valid answer to ANY question. It just might not be what you want to hear. (or in fact, make any sense)
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.03 01:10:00 - [86] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Captain Pompous "No" is not an answer to my question Because I may restate the question as who out of the two poasters quoted corresponds to which character in The Odd Couple No is a perfectly valid answer to ANY question. It just might not be what you want to hear. (or in fact, make any sense) Please stop quibbling with semantics and answer the question(s) -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.03 01:12:00 - [87] Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 03/02/2009 01:11:56 Originally by: Captain Pompous Because I may restate the question as who out of the two poasters quoted corresponds to which character in The Odd Couple Are you sure it's not from "Grumpy/Grumpier Old Men" as well? (...and yes, I'm old enough to have seen the original "Odd Couple" as well.) We're Recruiting!
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.03 01:12:00 - [88] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 03/02/2009 01:11:56 Originally by: Captain Pompous Because I may restate the question as who out of the two poasters quoted corresponds to which character in The Odd Couple Are you sure it's not from "Grumpy/Grumpier Old Men" as well? (...and yes, I'm old enough to have seen the original "Odd Couple" as well.) Either one works really :)) -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Novantco The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.02.03 01:13:00 - [89] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 02/02/2009 09:34:34 This whole "you sent first" thing is pure bull**** and you know it. Stop nitpicking over the exact words each person used and get some common sense. When a victim sends ISK without your ransom demand (or sends ISK that is not exactly the ransom demand, etc), that's a donation. When a victim makes a ransom offer, you accept it, and he sends the ISK, that's a ransom. This is not complicated. It does not matter who initiated the offer, a deal was made, and CJJ and MIDD had better hope their next victims don't read the forums. Agreed.
Supplement Blood Money Bootcamp Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.03 02:59:00 - [90] Originally by: Novantco Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 02/02/2009 09:34:34 This whole "you sent first" thing is pure bull**** and you know it. Stop nitpicking over the exact words each person used and get some common sense. When a victim sends ISK without your ransom demand (or sends ISK that is not exactly the ransom demand, etc), that's a donation. When a victim makes a ransom offer, you accept it, and he sends the ISK, that's a ransom. This is not complicated. It does not matter who initiated the offer, a deal was made, and CJJ and MIDD had better hope their next victims don't read the forums. Agreed. Also agreed. A deal was made for the release of a ship, that's a ransom folks no matter what you want to call it. If you don't believe me look off the coast of Somalia.
Miney Prospector Caldari Noob Mercs	Posted - 2009.02.03 03:12:00 - [91] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Riiiiggghhht. You show me something you've done that doesn't include pressing F1-F8 and maybe I'll be as impressed with you as you are, son. I've been known to press CTRL+F1-F8. One time I even pressed ALT+F1-F8.
The Pie Beets and Gravy Syndicate The InterBus Initiative	Posted - 2009.02.03 03:23:00 - [92] Bahahahaha Sweet tears
DeathWarrior Caldari Middle School Comedy Club	Posted - 2009.02.03 05:54:00 - [93] Edited by: DeathWarrior on 03/02/2009 05:55:06 He open fired on my gangmate after paying the ransom. The "neutral arb" was with me. You can see me calling him a ****** in the chat for doing it and saying dont fire right before that. www.middleschoolcomedyclub.com
Le Poupon Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.02.03 07:02:00 - [94] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Cleaned. Political discussion removed. lol Sorry couldn't help it.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.03 07:13:00 - [95] It just occurred to me that I haven't stomped on this thread nearly enough.
Dracoknight	Posted - 2009.02.03 08:30:00 - [96] Well, i come to the concludion: NEVER ever pay a pirate no matter his/her reputation... Stay and fight, get blown up, move on your 2nd ( or parhaps 8th ? ) life, make more money, train for PvP, come back, kill him ( or get killed again... ) Let the pirates destroy for eachother... ^^ love: The little carebear in his caracal hiding in a 1.0 zone...
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.03 08:41:00 - [97] Originally by: Navtiqes And K1RTH smells. hmmmm let me see........ whew! confirming this is correct, brb shower o7 At first I was like, I'm gonna violate you. But then I was like, I'm gonna violate you.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.03 08:54:00 - [98] on a serious note, if possible. let me know if this would seem dishonorable. awhile ago myself and a friend ransomed a hauler right - he stalled for time. his friend turned up but chose not to engage and sent us the required isk. we didnt know he sent it as i turn wallet blink off. at about the same time the guy who was being ransomed sent us the required amount also, said sent, and we let him go. the victims friend sent his isk to me and the victim sent his isk to my friend... after they figured out what happened they told us, only then i realised, and they wanted the duplicate back but we chose not to. it was their mistake but giving back the duplicate would seem to be the "right" thing to do. whats c&p think?
hellsknights SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.02.03 10:28:00 - [99] Lesson is dont offer any ISK to newb pirates.....make offers to pirates who you know have a rep. of keeping their word. BTW the only rep. you have in EvE is how big your guns are and if you keep your word and rep. goes very far in EvE.
Necroth Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2009.02.03 11:50:00 - [100] come blow up in Ingun, we allways honor ransoms :)
Groknor	Posted - 2009.02.03 12:33:00 - [101] Originally by: Viper **zIe How the **** do you lose a vaga to that? It's easy enough to lose a vaga to a competent arbitrator pilot, throw in a recon ship and you're toast.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.03 13:24:00 - [102] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N it was their mistake but giving back the duplicate would seem to be the "right" thing to do.whats c&p think? Hi Kirth! I would not comment if you had not asked . I guess I'd give them the duplicate back and hope they would tell their friends. However, there is no 'right' thing to do in Eve - only what you consider right for your type of play. At least you did not blow up the ship - I hope you had a cargo scanner and knew if the amount paid was right - otherwise the events described make me believe that the cargo was worth much more than the ransom and part of it belonged to the target's friend. Fly safe, HL
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.03 14:17:00 - [103] I hear lots of idiots babbling on how it wasn't ransom because it wasn't specifically stated the "isk donation" was for ransom. But just for some LULS can any of you write a sentence that can without any doubts whatsoever explicitly state what a ransom request should be like? I'm willing to bet I can act just as ignorant as you and construe the sentence to my benefit (ie, not honor the ransom). Any takers? Basically, if you're going to not honor ransoms, don't honor them. But do stop making up excuses on why you didn't honor them (ie "i thought you meant be liberated from your ship when you said 'let me go free'")
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.03 14:23:00 - [104] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn I always believe that if someone is going to blow up your ship, they're going to blow up your ship, and if you offer ISK to escape, then you'd better be very, very clear in how you ask. If someone offers you a ransom, then you have a much better chance of escaping if they start the conversation themselves. Then, of course, you have every right to complain if a ransom is not honoured. I think the logs are really the deciding factor in all of this. If someone's inclined to blow up your ship AND take your ransom money there is absolutely no sentence you can write that will ever be clear enough to have them honor a ransom. They will play dumb and make up some dumb sh*t on how the sentence didn't explicitly state it was for ransom or some such.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.03 14:32:00 - [105] Originally by: Matrix Skye If someone's inclined to blow up your ship AND take your ransom money there is absolutely no sentence you can write that will ever be clear enough to have them honor a ransom. I agree. (Do you purposefully seek out my posts, just to reply to me?) We're Recruiting!
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.03 14:40:00 - [106] No. I really don't. We're forum whrs. We're bound to bump in to each other often.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.03 15:08:00 - [107] Originally by: Matrix Skye No. I really don't. I'm hurt. Hey, what did you call me?
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.03 16:24:00 - [108] Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N it was their mistake but giving back the duplicate would seem to be the "right" thing to do.whats c&p think? Hi Kirth! I would not comment if you had not asked . I guess I'd give them the duplicate back and hope they would tell their friends. However, there is no 'right' thing to do in Eve - only what you consider right for your type of play. At least you did not blow up the ship - I hope you had a cargo scanner and knew if the amount paid was right - otherwise the events described make me believe that the cargo was worth much more than the ransom and part of it belonged to the target's friend. Fly safe, HL hey matey. well, i would never dishonor ransom or 1vs1 i think its cowardly... rest goes though d^_^b first 1vs1 dishonorment i witnessed - the dishonerers excuse was the second guy was his alt so it was ok... proof i say proof q-_-p o7 :)
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.03 17:21:00 - [109] I usually tell them I never got the isk. Occasionally, they pay the ransom twice before I pop them anyhow.
Le Poupon Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.02.03 17:24:00 - [110] Edited by: Le Poupon on 03/02/2009 17:25:12 Originally by: Arvald [ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck I loved that bit. -------sig------------------------------------ Fear and loathing in C&P
LundeBob Columbias Johnson's Journey	Posted - 2009.02.03 19:05:00 - [111] I have to object to this accusation, I have never broken a "you pay me and live" ransom and i have serveral victims to verify that. This doesnt mean you safe it just means its pay or die. So this does not apply to all members atleast from my corp as i cannot speak on behalf of others /Lundebob
Alchemos Gallente Middle School Comedy Club	Posted - 2009.02.03 19:37:00 - [112] Originally by: DeathWarrior Edited by: DeathWarrior on 03/02/2009 05:55:06 He open fired on my gangmate after paying the ransom. The "neutral arb" was with me. You can see me calling him a ****** in the chat for doing it and saying dont fire right before that.
Nephilius Caldari Grey Legionaires	Posted - 2009.02.03 19:40:00 - [113] Edited by: Nephilius on 03/02/2009 19:42:38 Ah...the Middle School Comedy Club...got popped by them in Hysera months ago. Unfortunate set of circumstances really...I giggle thinking about it now. Sure do miss that Caracal though...heehee EDIT: Hey, Deathwarrior...I recognize that name...one of the swell fellows that helped create a vacuum in my pod. Got a 5k bounty for that from me. Woulda been less, but that was the minimum. I ate a Carebear once...couldn't quit farting rainbows for a month.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.03 20:02:00 - [114] Originally by: Nephilius Got a 5k bounty for that from me. Woulda been less, but that was the minimum. the minimum bounty is zero, braniac -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Miss Uylear Caldari The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre	Posted - 2009.02.03 20:09:00 - [115] Rarr! It is ME! And here is MY opinion. It stinks, it is in no way fair, but it is RIGHT! When the OP said he'd give 40m to go free, he was in fact BRIBING! You never Bribe an oficer of the law, and in low sec, there is no law! So it can be made up - on the fly! OP, you're negotiation skills are lacking. And thats it - lacking. You're like one of these fat cats who thing that money in EVE = power! NO!!!! (Removed by CCP Mitnal, Coz this ***** is outta control!)
Nephilius Caldari Grey Legionaires	Posted - 2009.02.04 19:31:00 - [116] Originally by: Captain Pompous Originally by: Nephilius Got a 5k bounty for that from me. Woulda been less, but that was the minimum. the minimum bounty is zero, braniac Then it isn't a bounty, Mr Greenspan. I ate a Carebear once...couldn't quit farting rainbows for a month.
Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.04 19:46:00 - [117] Just never pay any ransom whatever. Unless it's VETO.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.04 20:41:00 - [118] Originally by: Nephilius Originally by: Captain Pompous Originally by: Nephilius Got a 5k bounty for that from me. Woulda been less, but that was the minimum. the minimum bounty is zero, braniac Then it isn't a bounty, Mr Greenspan. Then STFU, thank you, come again :)
Luthien Tanuviel	Posted - 2009.02.04 21:01:00 - [119] Im still confused ny this ransom thing, let me get this straight:- 1. u fly into lawless space [LAWLESS] 2. some people try to kill u [KILL U] 3. u offer them money... im curious as to how you could possibly believe that in the middle of space where no laws apply you trusted some people who were trying to kill u??? Would you say to someone mugging you - "if i give this $10 can i keep my phone and the othe $100?" if you would u live in a very nice little town and i will move there soon if you pay me some cash i will go hunt them down with my main and his merc corp though.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.04 22:53:00 - [120] Edited by: Vrabac on 04/02/2009 22:53:45 Originally by: Luthien Tanuviel iWould you say to someone mugging you - "if i give this $10 can i keep my phone and the othe $100?" Carebears very often use similar RL examples and are rightfully ridiculed for that. Oh, and RL money doesn't go pop when you get beaten up.

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