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Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:58:00 - [31] In light of all that's transpired here this morning, I'd like to detract any former statements insinuating the proceedings I'd be enclined to follow if prompted with said dilemma, because having taken the problem to heart I think I'd be leaning towards rejection of the terms in question as per my desire for collecting missives of various felled objects. And K1RTH smells.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:03:00 - [32] Middle school comedy club are known for not honoring ransoms and there was another thread about it. However, 5 % of the killed ransomees (is that actually a proper word??) will come to C&P to write their story, but only 0.0000005% of the potential victims come to read about dishonored ransoms. Anyway, since I'm here already, here comes the obligatory: The Guristas Associates honor their ransoms. Pay us and life, don't and die...
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:14:00 - [33] Edited by: Sol''Kanar on 02/02/2009 14:13:59 Originally by: H Lecter blabbity blab, I'm so honourable. Edited your post for brevity. <3
Mickey Simon Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've always heard it's a donation if you offer to pay them, even if you use the word ransom and they agree. I don't know. If someone offers to pay me money for the survival of their ship, and I accept, I have to honour it as a ransom. Maybe pirates work differently, but that's how we operate if we ever do decide to take a ransom for some random off-contract target /shrug
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:50:00 - [35] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Edited your post for brevity. <3 Thanks mate - you know how I get carried away when stroking my honor-epeen
Alia Xii	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:18:00 - [36] Pirate > 40m to go free Victim > Sent ^^ That is a ransom Victim > How much? Pirate > 40m Victim > Sent ^^ That is also a ransom IMO being in receipt of money to buy their release, no matter who initiates it - is a ransom. It should be honoured. None of this "donation" bull****. If they pay, you release them. If you don't and pop them anyway you're word means jack. At the end of the day, you only harm yourselves and other pirates. If you really want a killmail - DON'T RANSOM IN THE FIRST PLACE
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:22:00 - [37] Originally by: Alia Xii Victim > How much? Pirate > 40m Victim > Sent ^^ That is also a ransom I disagree, if only for semantic reasons. If it were me, I'd give them the price of my ship, and claim ignorance. Victim > Hey! I paid you! Why did you pop me? Tchell > You said, "How much?" so I told you. I wasn't lying. My ship cost me 40M. Victim > D'oh! I meant how much for the ransom! Tchell > Oh! Well, don't you feel silly? Next time, let me know that's what you meant. This game is all about communication.
Mickey Simon Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:27:00 - [38] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Alia Xii Victim > How much? Pirate > 40m Victim > Sent ^^ That is also a ransom I disagree, if only for semantic reasons. If it were me, I'd give them the price of my ship, and claim ignorance. Victim > Hey! I paid you! Why did you pop me? Tchell > You said, "How much?" so I told you. I wasn't lying. My ship cost me 40M. Victim > D'oh! I meant how much for the ransom! Tchell > Oh! Well, don't you feel silly? Next time, let me know that's what you meant. This game is all about communication. So basically, you understand entirely what he means, but choose to dishonour it anyway and blame the semantics of what happened I'm not saying that's a good/bad thing, just that I hardly think you can write something so obvious off as not being a ransom. I mean, by all means don't accept it and just blow him up. If he just wires you ISK without you saying anything - that's different, but the moment you mention money and he wires it and you accept - that's a ransom in my books. Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . .
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Mickey Simon So basically, you understand entirely what he means, but choose to dishonour it anyway and blame the semantics of what happened I'm not saying that's a good/bad thing, just that I hardly think you can write something so obvious off as not being a ransom. I mean, by all means don't accept it and just blow him up. If he just wires you ISK without you saying anything - that's different, but the moment you mention money and he wires it and you accept - that's a ransom in my books. I guess this is where some don't accept the "ransom / donation" part of the pirates' argument, and I completely understand where you're coming from. It's really a fine line. I always believe that if someone is going to blow up your ship, they're going to blow up your ship, and if you offer ISK to escape, then you'd better be very, very clear in how you ask. If someone offers you a ransom, then you have a much better chance of escaping if they start the conversation themselves. Then, of course, you have every right to complain if a ransom is not honoured. I think the logs are really the deciding factor in all of this. We're Recruiting!
Sindavathar Caldari Columbias Johnson's Journey	Posted - 2009.02.02 16:41:00 - [40] Firstly, Originally by: Alia Xii If you really want a killmail - DON'T RANSOM IN THE FIRST PLACE I'll reply to that with: Originally by: Arvald Arvald > 40m to go free? Was the above us ransoming? Secondly, We do honor ransoms. You can ask two CEO's in the game one: Philus Civrus of Quebec coalition (maybe spelt right). And the second CEO of Quality Assurance is of on military exercises so his second in command should do. Both corps were ransomed to end A war and both were honored. No second wardec followed and they were left alone.
54031355	Posted - 2009.02.02 16:54:00 - [41] So would this also be a scam? here Obama is getting money donated and all we get in return is a tshirt? And the donated money is not tax-deductible as a charitable contribution for Federal income tax purposes. He's getting freaking free money from stupid people. Whats he going to do with this money?
N'tek alar	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Sindavathar Firstly, Originally by: Alia Xii If you really want a killmail - DON'T RANSOM IN THE FIRST PLACE I'll reply to that with: Originally by: Arvald Arvald > 40m to go free? Was the above us ransoming? Secondly, We do honor ransoms. You can ask two CEO's in the game one: Philus Civrus of Quebec coalition (maybe spelt right). And the second CEO of Quality Assurance is of on military exercises so his second in command should do. Both corps were ransomed to end A war and both were honored. No second wardec followed and they were left alone. You agreed to the terms he offered, So yes, You were indeed ransoming him. As for the claim that you honor ransoms because you've done it at times in the past... That means you honor SOME ransoms, Not that you honor ransoms.
Ducyen Phung	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:39:00 - [43] Edited by: Ducyen Phung on 02/02/2009 17:40:24 Well Today, the Senate is scheduled to begin debate on the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan. Iunno but it might have started already. The money that was donated was used towards his Election Campaign, so all in all it was a good cause. The Democrats admitted that it's going to be a tough fight to get Obama's economic stimulus plan passed with both parties supporting, but everyone is optimistic that it can be done. The full Senate will vote on its version of the bill Wednesday. Should the Senate and House pass different versions, the two bills would have to be conferenced together. Then both chambers would have to vote on the conference version. Last Wednesday, the House successfully passed an $819 billion version of this plan. So I think that the money which was donated to his Campaign was used wisely. Hopefully he will turn the USA around and contribute to fixing the now crumbling world's economy.
spynah	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:54:00 - [44] Edited by: spynah on 02/02/2009 17:54:46 Obama - Give me 30 bux person - sure! Obama - gives tshirt to person lululul Democrats better not screw this one up in the senate and really target the TAX CUTS, not for the RICH, but for the working middle class. I believe many republicans would vote for if the infrastructure spending was higher!
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:59:00 - [45] Originally by: Ducyen Phung Last Wednesday, the House successfully passed an $819 billion version of this plan. You all want to bring politics into this? Fine. I'm fairly certain that if not one of the "loyal opposition" in the House voted for the bill that President Obamas honeymoon is over. If not a single House Republican was scared to vote against the bill it tells you something about that bill. If you have moderate Democrats in the Senate voicing complaints about the bill coming from the House it tells you something about that bill that was "successfully passed" in the House. Either the President needs to reign in the Democrats in the House or we are going to have four more years of "she said he said" crap. Me, I just want em to live within their means. I kind of wish I could go to someone and say "Dude, I just spent way more money then I have so give me some". I have learned that if you throw money at someone (or something) that does not know how to control their spending all you are doing is throwing money away. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:09:00 - [46] Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 02/02/2009 18:11:08 Originally by: Sindavathar Was the above us ransoming? From my POV, and following up from the above statements, yes. Your Corpmate(s) was/were offered 40M to permit Arvald to go free, and by his own post, he accepted it. (If, of course, you agree with my position on semantics of the conversation.) Consider it this way... A man has another man tied to a chair, with a gun to his head, with every intent to pull the trigger. The man in the chair screams, "I'll give you anything you want if you let me go! I have 1 million dollars, and I'll give it to you if you let me go." The man with the gun says, "Ok. Give me the money." The other man, expecting to be set free after paying the first man 1 million dollars, is summarily executed. This is, in effect, the flow of the original conversation, and I believe you'll agree with me that the example above is a fair representation of a ransom that was dishonored. The point is not that he didn't intend to ransom the victim originally. The point is that, during the course of the conversation, a payment was offered for the sole purpose of survival, and this agreement was not honoured.
54031355	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:10:00 - [47] Well in Canada's government is similar to that. We have the Liberals and Conservatives mainly in power. Theres also the NDP and Partis Quebecois and Green Party, no idea how the green party got into power anyway. The Conservatives want to save us money. Being lowering tax rates. But if they lower the tax rates that kicks everyone in the a$$. Because when they lower the tax rates they have to pull money from elsewhere. This elsewhere is our health benefits, schools, etc. When the Liberals were in power all was nice but then the population went. "O HEY! lets give these guys a try we've had it nice for to long." When Bush was in power no one still knows 100% for sure as to why the USA invaded IRAQ. But I will always find it funny that the CIA or whichever organization trained and equipped the Taliban. And then they kicked their master in the groin and ran away giggling.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.02 19:53:00 - [48] Originally by: 54031355 When Bush was in power no one still knows 100% for sure as to why the USA invaded IRAQ. But I will always find it funny that the CIA or whichever organization trained and equipped the Taliban. And then they kicked their master in the groin and ran away giggling. The CIA gave weapons to the Taliban because the Soviet Union (not Russia) was in Afghanistan at the time. The U.S. did not like the USSR at that time and wanted payback for Vietnam. So the U.S. gave em weapons without thinking what will happen with those weapons after the USSR was kicked out of Afghanistan. And the U.S. did not care what would happen when the USSR pulled out and left a political vacuum. After all what could a little bitty country like Afghanistan do? If you don't know your history you are condemned to repeat it. I think a lot of our leaders skipped History when they went to school. Consequences of ones actions can bit you in the rear later on down the road. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Le Poupon Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:04:00 - [49] Originally by: Traidor Disloyal Originally by: 54031355 When Bush was in power no one still knows 100% for sure as to why the USA invaded IRAQ. But I will always find it funny that the CIA or whichever organization trained and equipped the Taliban. And then they kicked their master in the groin and ran away giggling. The CIA gave weapons to the Taliban because the Soviet Union (not Russia) was in Afghanistan at the time. The U.S. did not like the USSR at that time and wanted payback for Vietnam. So the U.S. gave em weapons without thinking what will happen with those weapons after the USSR was kicked out of Afghanistan. And the U.S. did not care what would happen when the USSR pulled out and left a political vacuum. After all what could a little bitty country like Afghanistan do? If you don't know your history you are condemned to repeat it. I think a lot of our leaders skipped History when they went to school. Consequences of ones actions can bit you in the rear later on down the road. They also provided the training for said Taliban forces. In addition to which the media hailed them as heros. Take a quick peek at Rambo 3 I believe( may need confirmation as to which Rambo it acctualy was. It was kind of like a reversal of Vietnam in a way. Post Cold War and in steps Mr Bush the first and the people of America are no longer afraid, the war is done and people are happy. Enter Gulf War and the need for a new enemy. <<<<<<<<<<<<<Ohh look we already trained these guys>>>>>>>>>> LETS GO TO WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST! And look around. Suddenly everyones afraid again. Thankyou very much to the Bush family (of which Mr Obama is a relative may I add.) Just my point of view and quite an extreme one I know. I'd like to think its logical, maybe I'm wrong. But I think if you want to be Superman you need to make your own Luther first.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:58:00 - [50] Edited by: Vrabac on 02/02/2009 20:58:46 Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Alia Xii Victim > How much? Pirate > 40m Victim > Sent ^^ That is also a ransom I disagree I noticed you seem to have lot of opinions for someone who seems to do nothing else but salvage wrecks in high sec and get killed in that same high sec. Now please don't point me to the links proving your enormous pirating and general pvp experiences because I already laughed my arse off looking at them. Note that I'm not bashing your playstyle, I actually find it amusing. I'm making fun of the fact you somehow seem to be called for opinion where you obviously lack any sort of experience, writing lot of posts that all end up meaning nonsense. Now to the subject, that IS a ransom. Ransom is a matter of trust, defending a case of dishonoring it based on the way it was formulated is ridiculous. Saying it's ok to shoot someone who payed because he asked to be ransomed first makes no sense, there is no in-game mechanic that will prevent people from killing that ship no matter how the matter was spelled out in chat. It is purely based on trust the person who is getting ransomed puts into person who is doing the ransoming - and they obviously both understand what is going on if something like that managed to happen. That said, I don't really propagate any sort of e-bushido internet code of honor sort of bullshiet, it's simply a matter of common decency. Dishonoring ransom is ugly thing to do, since it's on personal level, unlike simply warping in and WTFBBQPWNING someone, however helpless and inferior, which includes no direct human-human interaction at all. After common decency comes the business part where you have the opportunity to build a name for yourself as someone who can be trusted at ransoming, or ruin it. It's similar to scamming really. Make a contract for a plain raven, name it Raven Navy Issue, set price 200mil, drag it into Jita local. Some guy accepts it... LOL You havent cheated anyone really, it's all there black on white, the game provides the means to any literate person to recognize what is he buying and for how much isk. That person was careless or in hurry or greedy or just plain stupid- in any case his own fault. But if you make a verbal agreement with someone and get cheated on it, that's ugly since it involved trust and could never involve anything more than trust since the person who is being cheated couldn't use any sort of in-game means to make sure the one who cheated him will keep his word. Or even in case he could he decided not to, for example gave some item on direct trade to be hauled instead of creating courier contract with collateral because he placed trust into the cheating party - it's still essentially wrong. I'm ranting, in short ransom is a ransom no matter who proposed it. As things are I wouldn't pay ransom to pretty much anyone any more, and that comes from someone who was -10 for most of my eve playing time, I don't bother asking victims any more myself. There are some corps that are well known for keeping their word and those are of course exceptions, but if some random dude somehow manages to get me in a position where he can ransom me, I'd reject. Too many "LULZ PWNED U NOOB HAHAHA" sort of people around tbh, as seen in this thread among other things.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:14:00 - [51] Originally by: Vrabac I noticed you seem to have lot of opinions for someone who seems to do nothing else but salvage wrecks in high sec and get killed in that same high sec. What's your point? Originally by: Vrabac Now please don't point me to the links proving your enormous pirating and general pvp experiences because I already laughed my arse off looking at them. You new here? Must be. Last time I checked, I'm not one to go off and wave my ePeen around via killboard links. Yours are snazzy, btw. (Oh, and tell Nahnil I appreciate the flattering choice of portraits. It's always nice to meet a fan.) Originally by: Vrabac Note that I'm not bashing your playstyle, I actually find it amusing. I'm making fun of the fact you somehow seem to be called for opinion where you obviously lack any sort of experience, writing lot of posts that all end up meaning nonsense. Perhaps you could train "Reading Comprehension" past I? I thought my opinion was quite understandable, personally. While you're at it, look up the term "Internet Forum". You might just find that it's a place where everybody's opinion can be heard, and not just those who think their nads hang lower than anyone else's.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:18:00 - [52] Originally by: Le Poupon LETS GO TO WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST! This is not aimed at you Le Poupon. I just didn't want to quote your whole post. A lot of people don't seem to understand the Middle East. They have blood feuds going back thousands of years. If someone wants to step into that mess one needs to be prepared for the long haul and not expect for everyone to play nice within a four year period. I always smile when the U.S. President, U.S. Secretary of State, or someone from Congress goes in there and expects their winning smile to solve everyone's problems. And the news media (right, left, center) doesn't help one bit. They seem to have skipped their history lessons also. A lot of the mess that the Middle East is in now (and Africa for that matter) can be laid at the feet of the Colonial Powers that had control of those areas before the start of WW1. What were they thinking when they created new nations without thinking about tribal land? The U.S. and U.S.S.R. can take some more blame due to the fact they played countries off of each other. And now that the U.S. is essentially the only world power (until China gets its act together) they (we) like to mess things up because we want everyone to be like us. A democratic country. Which is really friggen stupid. My opinion. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn I appreciate the flattering choice of portraits. It's always nice to meet a fan. That char being 9 months older than yours makes your statement a nonsense wouldn't you agree. Not to mention only link here is yours. Still I'm thankful you decided to do some free promotion for my corp. Your opinion can be heared and there is obviously nothing I can do about it - this being internet forum. Than again smart people usually don't talk about things they know little about, something you do too much. It is not illegal of course, if you understood me that way.
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:31:00 - [54] Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 02/02/2009 21:32:22 Originally by: Vrabac That char being 9 months older than yours makes your statement a nonsense wouldn't you agree. Not in the least. Shall I link you to the place where you can pay to have your character's portrait changed, perhaps? (...and, by all means, tell me it's not possible. I'll wait.) Originally by: Vrabac Than again smart people usually don't talk about things they know little about, something you do too much. You left out "in my opinion" at the end of your statement. Oh, and as for my knowing 'little about' PvP, I know more than enough when to fight and when not to, as well as when I care to lose a ship or not in the pursuit of personal enjoyment. Some of us play the game with our both our hands above the table, if you know what I mean. "And just because you're 'smart', it doesn't mean you are not tough. .... Sun Tzu" We're Recruiting!
Le Poupon Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 02/02/2009 21:32:22 Originally by: Vrabac That char being 9 months older than yours makes your statement a nonsense wouldn't you agree. Not in the least. Shall I link you to the place where you can pay to have your character's portrait changed, perhaps? (...and, by all means, tell me it's not possible. I'll wait.) Originally by: Vrabac Than again smart people usually don't talk about things they know little about, something you do too much. You left out "in my opinion" at the end of your statement. Oh, and as for my knowing 'little about' PvP, I know more than enough when to fight and when not to, as well as when I care to lose a ship or not in the pursuit of personal enjoyment. Some of us play the game with our both our hands above the table, if you know what I mean. "And just because you're 'smart', it doesn't mean you are not tough" ..... Sun Tzu Fixed
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Le Poupon Fixed Damn, that edit was hard to find. Thank you!
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn "And just because you're 'smart', it doesn't mean you are not tough. .... Sun Tzu" Says a guy who would break a ransom provided it's formulated in a certain way... if only he ever was in situation to do it in the first place. You're neither smart nor tough matey. You just post a lot. And you fall in love with pixels way too easily. Not to mention that does not sound like Sun Tzu to me. Been long since I read it but that sounds like a nike commercial.
ShadowMaiden Amarr Metal Machine	Posted - 2009.02.02 21:43:00 - [58] Originally by: Arvald Edited by: Arvald on 02/02/2009 07:22:11 Just a friendly warning not to trus the corp's Columbias Johnson's journey or Middle school comedy club as they do not honor ransoms, i engaged one of their arbitrator then they uncloaked a curse which is fair enough but then i asked if i could pay 40m to go free, they agreed then blew me up anyway folowing is a tidbit of the conversation Arvald > 40m to go free? Auroni > ok Auroni > send Arvald > your not the oen scraming me DeathWarrior > send Arvald > isk sent Arvald > isk has been sent pelase disengage Auroni > ur fault DeathWarrior > ****** also heres a screenshot Linkage Don't look now, but they've run off with your spell-check too...
Koken blackdude	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:13:00 - [59] We middle school comedy club honur our ransomes and what this victum has nigleted to inform u is about the back up he had in system making his ransome just a ploy to stall for time. Notice in the pic his gang member plus OBAMA RULESSSSSSSS.
Arvald Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:24:00 - [60] Originally by: Koken blackdude Edited by: Koken blackdude on 02/02/2009 22:17:01 We middle school comedy club honur our ransomes and what this victum has nigleted to inform u is about the back up he had in system making his ransome just a ploy to stall for time. Notice in the pic his gang member plus OBAMA RULESSSSSSSS. woops posted with alt and what -10 dude ask for a ransome anyway. well i would have left if the person i payed the ransom to would have disabled his warp scrambler, that and payed it about 3 seconds after he accepted >_> ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck

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