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Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
Cascade Imminent
3
   |
Posted - 2012.04.26 11:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Dave stark wrote:
patch is out on the 22nd. that's 27 days. tomorrow i'll be able to add battlecruisers V to my queue. that'll take 23 days, leaving me with 4 days. that'll leave ~5 days. so i'm either going to sacrifice one of the racial battle cruisers, or i'll have a day or two left on battlecruisers IV, but it'll almost be finished training to V
if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.
does that make any more sense?
But that's what I meant. Inferno hits in 27 days, but as far as I know, these changes to BC and Destroyer skills will NOT BE IMPLEMENTED BY THEN. CCP claimed they wanted to review the ship lines first, possibly introducing new Destroyer hulls. ONLY after they've revisited and redesigned the ships themselves, the changes to skills will be implemented. So no, you don't JUST have 27 days. You probably have months.
that's good to know, looks like i'll be able to get racial battlecruisers and destroyers then. |
Jandice Ymladris
Perkone
Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 08:25:00 -
[62] - Quote
Had BC5 trained since whenever, can't think when I did it. I did finish training Destroyer 5 after the announcement, just to be sure (had it on 4, and was only a week training).
Better safe then sorry I say, and I enjoy flying ships of the 4 races (albeit gallente seems underrepresented in ships I fly) |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War
Union 0f Revolution
44
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 19:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
Well, I had BC IV and actually fly 3 different racial BCs, so I went ahead and trained that up. I don't see why I'd bother doing the same with destroyers, though, if I want it it's a short enough skill that bumping it to V four times isn't all that much longer than doing it once. And I have no real use for it now, so meh. |
Kalli Brixzat
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:15:00 -
[64] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:So are these changes definitely coming?
Almost certainly, yes. The only question is when those changes will be implemented. |
Jacob Straven
Air
Cascade Imminent
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:48:00 -
[65] - Quote
Quite funny that I had Dessy V and BC V just finished before they announced this :P |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe
Test Alliance Please Ignore
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
Got both Dessy and BC to 5, they're a nice skill to have regardless of the planned changes. |
MIkhail Illiad
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
Be funny if CCP turned around and said "LOL! this was all a big troll we're not changing anything we just wanted to see how many people would run out and train BC and Destroyers to lvl 5!" :D
In the knowledge that this probably wasn't a troll I boxed off BC 5 just after the announcement and am gonna get round to doing destroyers V (honest I will)
There once was an interesting signature here... It has long since disapeared.-á |
Dato Koppla
Perkone
Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 00:12:00 -
[68] - Quote
Well they can't really troll us cause BC V is downright one of the best skills in the game, Dessies V is a little lackluster, but Interdictors have an active role in the metagame and with the Destroyer buff the Thrasher is godlike, so I won't regret BC/Dessie V even though it was a bit premature than what I had planned.
I'm really hoping they add more Destroyer hulls though (come on T1 missile Cormorant), 1 for each race is a little lame especially considering you'll need to train it to IV to get to Cruisers in the planned changes. |
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 21:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
Just finishing off Destroyers 5 now, got BC5 last month.
But looking at one of the Dev responses, they won't be doing the skillbook changes for Inferno, so maybe later this year if we are lucky. |
Mr Ranger
Nullsec Pimps Associated
Apocalypse Now.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 00:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
Quote:There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now
Battlecruisers will have to wait until we have rebalanced frigates and destroyers to have something clean to compare them with
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99842&find=unread |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
3621
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 09:57:00 -
[71] - Quote
And that's how CCP trolled everyone into training BC V
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Darius Brinn
Iberians
Iberians.
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 10:15:00 -
[72] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:And that's how CCP trolled everyone into training BC V
True.
Thank God BC V is one of the most useful skills out there, and that with the Destroyers buff, Thrashers are fun. Sabres alone made it worth training Destroyers V, in my opinion.
|
Kalli Brixzat
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 19:02:00 -
[73] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Malcanis wrote:And that's how CCP trolled everyone into training BC V
True. Thank God BC V is one of the most useful skills out there, and that with the Destroyers buff, Thrashers are fun. Sabres alone made it worth training Destroyers V, in my opinion.
Also....the rumors of new Destroyer hulls make getting it to V even more intriguing. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp.
Cascade Imminent
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 20:19:00 -
[74] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:(come on T1 missile Cormorant)
this alone would make me want to train dessy V |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries
Chained Reactions
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 22:08:00 -
[75] - Quote
MIkhail Illiad wrote:Be funny if CCP turned around and said "LOL! this was all a big troll we're not changing anything we just wanted to see how many people would run out and train BC and Destroyers to lvl 5!" :D
In the knowledge that this probably wasn't a troll I boxed off BC 5 just after the announcement and am gonna get round to doing destroyers V (honest I will)
That would be fine by me. I was planning on flying Command ships eventually. This just gave me an incentive to get this stuff done early. |
Kalli Brixzat
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 22:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
FireT wrote:MIkhail Illiad wrote:Be funny if CCP turned around and said "LOL! this was all a big troll we're not changing anything we just wanted to see how many people would run out and train BC and Destroyers to lvl 5!" :D
In the knowledge that this probably wasn't a troll I boxed off BC 5 just after the announcement and am gonna get round to doing destroyers V (honest I will) That would be fine by me. I was planning on flying Command ships eventually. This just gave me an incentive to get this stuff done early.
Pretty much this. And getting BC to V couldn't hurt for...you know...flying battlecruisers...better. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
179
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 08:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
So... may 22nd, if I still have a few days left on BC V, i'm not going to be left out to dry?
I may even have time to get my same-account alts to Dessy and BC V, or at least Dessy V and BC IV?
Also... what was this about freighters? |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 11:58:00 -
[78] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:And that's how CCP trolled everyone into training BC V
Oh yeah. It's very bad skill to have at level 5. 
I was going to train it anyway, so why should I wait if I can train it now. Especially now after seeing new Absolution and Damnation... |
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
Occupational Hazzard
Ushra'Khan
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 15:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:So... may 22nd, if I still have a few days left on BC V, i'm not going to be left out to dry?
I may even have time to get my same-account alts to Dessy and BC V, or at least Dessy V and BC IV?
Also... what was this about freighters?
From my understanding of what the devs have said we will have some time before the changes are in place. The first release with Inferno will be focused on frigs from what it seems. You probably have months until they actually get around to the dest/bc. Even more so if what they planned to do doesn't work too well with frigs.
In my opinion this entire change is ******* ******** though. It does not make things simpler for ANYONE. It just adds more time that you will have to spend training and in turn gives CCP more money from your subscription. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae
ROMANIAN-LEGION
162
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 17:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
I had both to 5 before it was cool!
Though never finished interdictor training. Liked my lvl 5 command ship too much |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
183
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 08:13:00 -
[81] - Quote
Well, I guess then I'll have time to get my two mains to BC lvl 5 on both my accounts, and then my secondary and tertiary characters on those two accounts to BC IV, dessy IV.
Quote:In my opinion this entire change is ******* ******** though. It does not make things simpler for ANYONE. It just adds more time that you will have to spend training and in turn gives CCP more money from your subscription.
I completely agree - if they think BC skill is too broad and abnormal because it allows one proficiency in all races BCs, I've already proposed a simple solution:
On battle CRUISER hulls, the BC skill only grants one bonus, the other bonus comes from the racial CRUISER Skill
The same goes for destroyers and racial frigate skills.
No more training one skill to lvl 5, and having perfect hull bonuses for all 4 races...
For noobs when they first sit in a BC hull, they already have 1 bonus to lvl 3 (I guess it should be the tanking/cap bonus to make it more noob friendly) |
Kalli Brixzat
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:45:00 -
[82] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Well, I guess then I'll have time to get my two mains to BC lvl 5 on both my accounts, and then my secondary and tertiary characters on those two accounts to BC IV, dessy IV. Quote:In my opinion this entire change is ******* ******** though. It does not make things simpler for ANYONE. It just adds more time that you will have to spend training and in turn gives CCP more money from your subscription. I completely agree - if they think BC skill is too broad and abnormal because it allows one proficiency in all races BCs, I've already proposed a simple solution: On battle CRUISER hulls, the BC skill only grants one bonus, the other bonus comes from the racial CRUISER Skill The same goes for destroyers and racial frigate skills. No more training one skill to lvl 5, and having perfect hull bonuses for all 4 races... For noobs when they first sit in a BC hull, they already have 1 bonus to lvl 3 (I guess it should be the tanking/cap bonus to make it more noob friendly)
BC and Destroyers are different because they were added later. As opposed to the core ships (FR, CR, BS), which are divided into the 4 racial variant-skills.
The change is coming...at some point. |
The Cake
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 20:36:00 -
[83] - Quote
"If and when such changes occur, we would remove the generic Destroyer and Battlecruiser skills, reimburse the skill points (and possibly the cost) not to penalize players"
I just skimmed the thread, didn't see anyone mention that quote. It seems pretty straightforwardly saying no free SKP.
However, if you're on a Per/Will remap then it could be a nice way of getting a bonus charisma or int/mem skill. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians
Iberians.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 07:32:00 -
[84] - Quote
It's true.
But it's undeniable that CCP also stated that if you could fly it BEFORE, you will be able to fly it AFTER the changes.
I can now fly all Destroyers and Battlecruisers with skill Lvl V.
Simply reimbursing me roughly 2m SP means I will need to devote 6 MILLION SP to training for ships I can fly now.
Simply reimbursing me those 2 skills means I WILL be penalized. Forcing me to train 6m SP for ZERO gain is not fair.
So, what would the best solution be?
In my opinion, CCP should not hand over 6m SP to those with such skills trained. They should just give us the SKILLS, ALREADY TRAINED TO V. Just log in to discover all Destroyers trained to V and all Battlecruisers trained to V.
My overall SP would increase, yes, but with ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGES from the current status. My character stays THE SAME, which is what I want. And I'd have to get more expensive clones, too. |
Heun zero
Reliant Tactical Operations
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 10:11:00 -
[85] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:
Simply reimbursing me roughly 2m SP means I will need to devote 6 MILLION SP to training for ships I can fly now.
Simply reimbursing me those 2 skills means I WILL be penalized. Forcing me to train 6m SP for ZERO gain is not fair.
So, what would the best solution be?
In my opinion, CCP should not hand over 6m SP to those with such skills trained. They should just give us the SKILLS, ALREADY TRAINED TO V. Just log in to discover all Destroyers trained to V and all Battlecruisers trained to V.
My overall SP would increase, yes, but with ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGES from the current status. My character stays THE SAME, which is what I want. And I'd have to get more expensive clones, too.
I disagree with you. I know it's **** that you'd have to train 3 rank 6 and 3 rank 2 skills again just to be able to fly what you could before. But I find it more logical if ccp just reimburses the SP and allows you to invest it into the skill(s) of your choice. Even though this will penalize players who have trained those skills before.
CCP is a bit too worried about pissing players off sometime, so I think they'll just give everyone all the racial bc and destroyer skills as long as you have the appropriate pre-reqs |
Klown Walk
Black Rebel Rifter Club
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 11:05:00 -
[86] - Quote
Had bc 5 for a year now I think and don-¦t care about destroyers. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians
Iberians.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 11:37:00 -
[87] - Quote
Heun zero wrote:
I disagree with you. I know it's **** that you'd have to train 3 rank 6 and 3 rank 2 skills again just to be able to fly what you could before. But I find it more logical if ccp just reimburses the SP and allows you to invest it into the skill(s) of your choice. Even though this will penalize players who have trained those skills before.
CCP is a bit too worried about pissing players off sometime, so I think they'll just give everyone all the racial bc and destroyer skills as long as you have the appropriate pre-reqs
I see nothing logical in what you propose. To me, the ideal situation would imply these two things:
-No player is penalized in the ships they can fly, or their level of proficiency (toons stay the same)
-No free SP which could be allocated elsewhere.
So, giving me ALL racial BC and Destroyers skills at Level V is PERFECT:
-My character will not be better in any sense.
-The SP I put into flying Destroyers and Battlecruisers remain there.
I will take the higher clone expenses, no problems. But ANY other solutions would not make any sense.
Giving me Gallente Battlecruiser V? Forcing me to train 20 extra days to fly my Hurricane to the proficiency I got now? Then ANOTHER 20 days to fly my Naga? Then 7 or 9 more for the Thrasher?
No thanks. That makes absolutely no sense: it would PUNISH my character for NO REASON.
Is there anything I'm missing here? Any potential exploits, abuses or well-thought motives that would justify crippling my character?
If they indeed exist, please let me hear them. But no taking things from me "just because", please. |
Vandir Rael
Regnum-Irae
Yulai Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 18:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
I don't really understand why CCP wants to change those skills...
- If they reimburse the SP it will be an hard hit for older players that will have to re-train all their ships
- if they give level 5 skills to whoever had it before they will just create a wider gap between old and new player, and newbies do not need to have an even more difficoult learning curvethan they have now...
If they wanted racial BC skills they should have created them that way, it seems to me that now it's too late to change their mind...
I don't really understand  |
Dato Koppla
Perkone
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 01:09:00 -
[89] - Quote
Heun zero wrote:
I disagree with you. I know it's **** that you'd have to train 3 rank 6 and 3 rank 2 skills again just to be able to fly what you could before. But I find it more logical if ccp just reimburses the SP and allows you to invest it into the skill(s) of your choice. Even though this will penalize players who have trained those skills before.
CCP is a bit too worried about pissing players off sometime, so I think they'll just give everyone all the racial bc and destroyer skills as long as you have the appropriate pre-reqs
Somebody wants to move his BC and Destroyer skills somewhere else  That approach makes no sense as there are a huge number of people who have trained BC/Des to V and fly more than 1 race BC/Des thus crapping all over these people, I'm at around 20m+ sp now, if it gets reimbursed as you mentioned, I'll have to re-train 30% of my total skills points just to be at the same level. |
Heun zero
Reliant Tactical Operations
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 07:21:00 -
[90] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:Somebody wants to move his BC and Destroyer skills somewhere else That approach makes no sense as there are a huge number of people who have trained BC/Des to V and fly more than 1 race BC/Des thus crapping all over these people, I'm at around 20m+ sp now, if it gets reimbursed as you mentioned, I'll have to re-train 30% of my total skills points just to be at the same level.
I dont want to move my BC and destroyer skill elsewhere. I hadnt trained up my destroyer skill past lvl 2 up untill now and I fly my nighthawk on a regular basis so I dont want to loose that. Actually I think that training BC 5 was one of the more usefull skills I've trained. Besides can you and do you fly all races destroyers and BC right now? If only 1 then you're still at the same level and for each other one you can fly yes, you'd have to train up some extra skills
But that aside, the way I look at it is that is that it has never really made sense that those skills havent been racial skills all the time. I was actually (pleasantly) suprised when I first started training the BC that it wasnt a racial skill. So we've just been lucky so far.
By giving everyone all the racial skills at the lvl the now have the destroyer and the BC skill CCP is practically forcing people to train the skills now if they havent already or be left behind on everyone else. This is not so much a problem for older players as generally they either have the skills trained up already or they have a non combat char which doesnt need the skill anyway.
For new players it means that they either have to invest in those skills pronto or they have to accept that the gap between them and the veteran players will become a little bigger. This is the last thing the game needs even though it's only a one time change.
just my 2 cents though
But as I said before I dont think ccp will just reimburse the sp you have trained now, because as you said it means that a lot of players will feel like something has been taken from them.
p.s.
Darius Brinn wrote:
I will take the higher clone expenses
I dont think this is that big of a deal that you could actually use that as an argument, unless you get podded every other day |
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