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Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
1
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Posted - 2012.05.09 10:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
8 days for command ships with bc 5 I'm just wondering will they do the freighters also and put them inline with other skills.
logicaly it should go industrial 4 -> freighter (this was said i belive) BUT will it also be freighter 5 -> jump freighters
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2012.05.09 11:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
Morgan Dinn wrote:logicaly it should go industrial 4 -> freighter (this was said i belive) BUT will it also be freighter 5 -> jump freighters
This is what I remember. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.
Good thing I don't have to do freighter 5 any time soon again. |
Elsbeth Taron
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
6
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Posted - 2012.06.17 20:34:00 -
[93] - Quote
Think I've understood what this is all about, and think it's a waste of time.
Destroyers use frigate-sized modules so they're basically frigates imo. Having trained already the racial frigate skill I think it's unnecessary to require racial destroyer training. How about the relevant destroyer requiring racial frigate V in order to fly it, with the destroyer skill giving extra bonuses, not much change from now?
Same line of thinking with cruisers/BC.
MUCH easier to implement and no faffing around with SP refund, extra training, blah-blah.
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
82
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Posted - 2012.06.18 05:09:00 -
[94] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:How about the relevant destroyer requiring racial frigate V in order to fly it, with the destroyer skill giving extra bonuses, not much change from now?
So destroyers would be T2 frigates, eh? |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
87
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Posted - 2012.06.23 04:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:I completely agree - if they think BC skill is too broad and abnormal because it allows one proficiency in all races BCs, I've already proposed a simple solution:
BC skill benefits _twelve_ distinct ships (counting T1 only). Each frigate skill benefits _six_, each cruiser skill _four_, and each BS skill _three_. You don't think maybe there's a legitimate complaint that it gives you access to more stuff than in should?
Making it a racial skill puts it on par with BS and Cruiser, which makes sense. Your complaint sort of makes sense for destroyers, which only gives 4 ships and they're essentially the same ship to begin with, but not for BCs. BCs really needed to be split. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
132
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Posted - 2012.06.23 13:56:00 -
[96] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Verity Sovereign wrote:I completely agree - if they think BC skill is too broad and abnormal because it allows one proficiency in all races BCs, I've already proposed a simple solution: BC skill benefits _twelve_ distinct ships (counting T1 only). Each frigate skill benefits _six_, each cruiser skill _four_, and each BS skill _three_. You don't think maybe there's a legitimate complaint that it gives you access to more stuff than in should? Making it a racial skill puts it on par with BS and Cruiser, which makes sense. Your complaint sort of makes sense for destroyers, which only gives 4 ships and they're essentially the same ship to begin with, but not for BCs. BCs really needed to be split.
Which is also the reason CCP is introducing new destroyers first. |
Demonfuge Malevolent
Missions and Logistics Incorporated
32
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:12:00 -
[97] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:I know similar topics have been made, but this isn't for discussion, I just want to know how many trained BC V and Dessie V (with the prereqs for every race) just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion. I know I did.
Also want to know who doesn't have BC/Dessie V and didn't immediately start training them the second the caught wind of the changes. Bittervets obviously already have both and probably all Cruiser/Frigate V.
Still have 2 months to run on the Int/Mem remap... was then going to remap for the social/trade skills BUT I will probably have to go to Per/Will again instead for BC/Dessie V. Every so often I petition CCP to check if there's an implementation date for this yet... if I catch wind of a fixed date I'll have to jettison the remaining Int/Mem and go straight on to BC/Dessie V. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
51
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:15:00 -
[98] - Quote
Demonfuge Malevolent wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:I know similar topics have been made, but this isn't for discussion, I just want to know how many trained BC V and Dessie V (with the prereqs for every race) just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion. I know I did.
Also want to know who doesn't have BC/Dessie V and didn't immediately start training them the second the caught wind of the changes. Bittervets obviously already have both and probably all Cruiser/Frigate V. Still have 2 months to run on the Int/Mem remap... was then going to remap for the social/trade skills BUT I will probably have to go to Per/Will again instead for BC/Dessie V. Every so often I petition CCP to check if there's an implementation date for this yet... if I catch wind of a fixed date I'll have to jettison the remaining Int/Mem and go straight on to BC/Dessie V.
we know it's being done in ship size order, and they're not even finished with frigs, there's no words on the new destroyers other than a footnote on the mining barge blog...
safe to say you've got plenty of time. you'll probably get a free re-map xmas present before the changes so don't worry about it. |
Glauron Darkshade
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2012.06.26 15:37:00 -
[99] - Quote
Perhaps another solution for CCP would be to create the 4 BC and DD skills at a lower x level, eg instead of BC being lvl 6, make it lvl 2.
This would allow them to minimize the new/old player gap caused by the 6m new skillpoints, and they could either reimburse the points at lvl6 for re-investment in the racial skills, OR give the 4 racial skills with a much smaller effect (eg clone level, free skillpoints etc).
It would also allow newer players to reach one race's high-BC levels faster (which seems to follow the CCP learning curve smoothing they have done over the years), while keeping the time required to crosstrain in sync with other types of ships (frigates, cruisers etc). |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
202
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Posted - 2012.06.26 16:41:00 -
[100] - Quote
i got those skills on 2 my main characters. took time but these days BCs are very popular in roams and fleet ops.... so no loss |
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March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
209
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Posted - 2012.06.26 17:08:00 -
[101] - Quote
Heun zero wrote: By giving everyone all the racial skills at the lvl the now have the destroyer and the BC skill CCP is practically forcing people to train the skills now if they havent already or be left behind on everyone else. This is not so much a problem for older players as generally they either have the skills trained up already or they have a non combat char which doesnt need the skill anyway.
For new players it means that they either have to invest in those skills pronto or they have to accept that the gap between them and the veteran players will become a little bigger. This is the last thing the game needs even though it's only a one time change.
well. for last 2 years (or that was only 1 year?) i remember 2 bonuses to "new players": removing of learning skills (+ increased speed of SP getting) + destroying quality of empire agents. So i guess it will be not so bad to give to old players 1 bonus?
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Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.06.29 20:17:00 -
[102] - Quote
This seems like too big of a free gift to be true, but on the other hand I can fly three races' Command Ships currently. I'd be more than mildly annoyed if I couldn't fly at least 2 of those 3 after. (and yes I also have Command Ships V also) |
Hulasikaly Wada
Chaotic Makers
4
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Posted - 2012.07.05 11:37:00 -
[103] - Quote
Mavnas wrote:This seems like too big of a free gift to be true, but on the other hand I can fly three races' Command Ships currently. I'd be more than mildly annoyed if I couldn't fly at least 2 of those 3 after. (and yes I also have Command Ships V also)
Point |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
108
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Posted - 2012.07.05 11:50:00 -
[104] - Quote
Mavnas wrote:This seems like too big of a free gift to be true, but on the other hand I can fly three races' Command Ships currently. I'd be more than mildly annoyed if I couldn't fly at least 2 of those 3 after. (and yes I also have Command Ships V also)
how is it too big of a free gift?
all they're doing is making your clone more expensive. |
Srioghal moDhream
B and T Inc
19
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:44:00 -
[105] - Quote
Why does everyone assume that if you have BC V you would receive the racial BC at V?
They only said if you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after, they said nothing about flying it at the same level.
Will there also be racial command ship skills? That would be the only reason to train BC to V, unless you are per/wil spec'd and want the possible SP to put into a skill you are not mapped to.
Same applies to destroyer, just with interdictors instead of command ships.
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March rabbit
Gansa. Legion of xXDEATHXx
210
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:57:00 -
[106] - Quote
Srioghal moDhream wrote:Why does everyone assume that if you have BC V you would receive the racial BC at V?
They only said if you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after, they said nothing about flying it at the same level.
reason is (you are right here): command ships. BC V is requirement. So if you train some additional skills and get access to all racial command ships you can't loose any of future racial BC V skills.
the same is for destroyers. Interdictors make it so you will HAVE TO HAVE keep Destroyer V.
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Srioghal moDhream
B and T Inc
19
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:59:00 -
[107] - Quote
unless they change the reqs. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
94
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Posted - 2012.07.05 16:22:00 -
[108] - Quote
I looked at it from a 'backwards' sort of view.
You could have all Cruiser V's and BC IV would have you 21 days away from all Command ships. After the 'update' you would need 4 times that amount, or 84 days for all Command ships
I didn't need any more research after I saw this one fact.
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Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2012.07.05 20:20:00 -
[109] - Quote
Srioghal moDhream wrote:Why does everyone assume that if you have BC V you would receive the racial BC at V?
They only said if you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after, they said nothing about flying it at the same level.
Will there also be racial command ship skills? That would be the only reason to train BC to V, unless you are per/wil spec'd and want the possible SP to put into a skill you are not mapped to.
Same applies to destroyer, just with interdictors instead of command ships.
Yeah, but if you have three racial cruisers at V, BCs at V, and Commandships I, you can fly 3 of the four ships.
One thing I could see is giving people racial BC at the lower of their BC or Cruiser of that race. So like if you have BC V, but only have Minmatar Cruisers to V and the others at like III, then they could give you Min BC at V (keeping the min command ships), and the other racial BCs at III (keeping all the T1 BCs that you can currently fly). This is more complex logic, but it limits the size of the gift or rather limits it to people that have really gone all out.
In my case I had CS V to fly a Nighthawk then got bored with missiles, trained Gal cruiser V to see if I could make the Proteus not suck (not really), and then Min cruiser V because I wanted to play around with projectiles (My other alts do lasers already). |
Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
0
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Posted - 2012.07.05 20:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
As cool as it is to get closer the the 100 million skillpoint club, this is still (getting extra SP so I can still fly what I always could) kind of a nerf just ever so slightly in regards to the fact that more skillpoints require a more expensive spawn clone, but its not really that big of a deal or worth making a huge fuss over, in any case this is not the buff I heard some people deduce that it was. |
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Hound Halfhand
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
7
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Posted - 2012.07.06 01:09:00 -
[111] - Quote
Does anyone still believe they are going to make these changes? Wouldn't they seed the new racial BC and destroyer skill books?
I have had all T1 combat ships to V for awhile now so it may not affect me but some how I think this fell off CCP's drawing board and they never made it public. |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2012.07.06 11:28:00 -
[112] - Quote
Hound Halfhand wrote:Does anyone still believe they are going to make these changes?...
If you read carefully, you can find the following paragraph in this devblog from June 14:
Quote:As an additional note and a follow-up from our previous balancing Dev Blog, we believe it is good for you to know we will not be changing the Destroyer / Battlecruiser skills for the winter expansion GÇô such changes are to come only after these two ship classes have been properly rebalanced.
The changes are coming definately, two questions remain: when exactly (2013?) and how are they going to be implemented - which was discussed here quite thouroughly before. FOR THE STATE! |
Screenlag
Beyond The Gates Black Core Alliance
22
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Posted - 2012.07.06 14:07:00 -
[113] - Quote
int/mem remapped. Plan to train them when I've remapped back to perc/will |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
61
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Posted - 2012.07.06 22:26:00 -
[114] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Elmanketticks wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:...just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion... please elaborate on that sp giveaway. I've not yet heard of this. Nice troll attempt, but he uses the word "possible" in referring to the SP reimbursement.
I would be willing to bet money that they are not going to just grant bonus SP to everyone. I think it will probably work more like what happened when they removed learning skills. For example, rather than removing BC/Dest And replacing it with 4factional variants and giving you the SP for all factions, they will instead return your SP and let you use it to train any other skills you wish. That way if you want level V again you can just drop the returned SP into whatever faction you most desire.
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Hound Halfhand
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
7
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Posted - 2012.07.06 23:07:00 -
[115] - Quote
Elmanketticks wrote:Hound Halfhand wrote:Does anyone still believe they are going to make these changes?... If you read carefully, you can find the following paragraph in this devblog from June 14: Quote:As an additional note and a follow-up from our previous balancing Dev Blog, we believe it is good for you to know we will not be changing the Destroyer / Battlecruiser skills for the winter expansion GÇô such changes are to come only after these two ship classes have been properly rebalanced. The changes are coming definately, two questions remain: when exactly (2013?) and how are they going to be implemented - which was discussed here quite thouroughly before.
2013 Summer expansion at the earliest I guess. |
Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
0
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Posted - 2012.07.07 07:54:00 -
[116] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Elmanketticks wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:...just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion... please elaborate on that sp giveaway. I've not yet heard of this. Nice troll attempt, but he uses the word "possible" in referring to the SP reimbursement. I would be willing to bet money that they are not going to just grant bonus SP to everyone. I think it will probably work more like what happened when they removed learning skills. For example, rather than removing BC/Dest And replacing it with 4factional variants and giving you the SP for all factions, they will instead return your SP and let you use it to train any other skills you wish. That way if you want level V again you can just drop the returned SP into whatever faction you most desire.
They keep saying if you could pilot it before you will be able to pilot it after the change, getting skillpoints in the 4 racials of Destroyer's and Battlecruisers is still a slight nerf do to clone costs and not really gaining anything that you didn't have before for it, but it will be horrific if I can't use the ships I already trained to use, the forums would run red with the rage of new bitter vets, given EVE's record of customer retention that isn't something to be scoffed at.
And while Yes multispecers will have more skillpoints they won't be more powerful then before, not in Bang Bang or Pew Pew, and lets not forget while Younger Player might miss out, (some older players may not get the maximum benefit) they still do get the benefit of reduced tech 2 pre-requisites, if they aren't multispec it will be even quicker to get to the one tech 2 ship you lust after, it will just be longer to multispec, and to get to interdictors you wont need frigate V or to get to command ships you wont need cruiser V. Its a shuffle for the new player. |
Lukriss
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
39
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Posted - 2012.07.07 17:22:00 -
[117] - Quote
Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V? |
Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
0
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Posted - 2012.07.07 18:22:00 -
[118] - Quote
Lukriss wrote:Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V?
It probably won't but I have even a funnier thought then refunding dictors and commandships, since racial Destroyers IV will be required for racial Cruisers and racial Battlecruiser IV is required for battleship do we refund the multispecers for those skill points as well since the pessimist of the forum seem to want to believe we will just get the 1 Battlecruiser V I bet multispec Tech 2 Battleship Pilots would be pointing and laughing all the way to new level V skills.
But in any case we will get to atleast fly what we flew before so this is all a moot point. It just causes to big of a cascade to refund the skill points people would have massive amounts of unallocated skillpoints because multispecers no longer meet cruiser or battleship pre-reqs with just the skill refund without getting the Dest and BC skills up to IV. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
112
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Posted - 2012.07.07 18:26:00 -
[119] - Quote
Lukriss wrote:Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V?
because they're t2 hulls, and ccp have already said t2 hulls will require the t1 hull at V.
frig IV -> destroyers. frig V -> interceptors/AF/cov ops/electronic whatsit.
hence, destroyers V will be needed for dictors, and bc V will be needed for command ships. infact, there's a few flow chart type things ccp drew up to illustrate the ship progression stuff. |
Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
0
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Posted - 2012.07.07 18:28:00 -
[120] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Lukriss wrote:Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V? because they're t2 hulls, and ccp have already said t2 hulls will require the t1 hull at V. frig IV -> destroyers. frig V -> interceptors/AF/cov ops/electronic whatsit. hence, destroyers V will be needed for dictors, and bc V will be needed for command ships. infact, there's a few flow chart type things ccp drew up to illustrate the ship progression stuff.
Hmmm you may be right but all the non Dictor and CS tech 2 hull skills weren't bound to a racial ship type, because they were made to work with all the racial hull types of the qualifying class, maybe you just need 1 racial hull to unlock the skill or something.
Edit I reread you just mean the ship reqs not the skill reqs right? |
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