|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
   |
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 04/02/2009 20:28:55
 Originally by: Gierling
Amarr are the only race that get a dedicated long range fleet gun incomparable to the other races.
Can we please get an equivelant for the other races already.
Say a 600mm railgun and 1500mm arty.
try fitting tachyons and msg me ingame with a list of amarr ships where you can fit t2 tachs decently except mb paladin and nightmare, and even then you require hardwirings and/or fitting mods just to squeeze them in on those two..
also, armor tanking is low slot same as pg mods.
oh yeah.. and... the capacitor is empty, and tracking?
gotta love complaints without noting the context to their usage.
|
7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 04/02/2009 20:57:07
you need the rigs aswell as low slots to fit tachs unless you plan to vapour tank..
wtb cap stable tachyon sniping apoc that doesn't require rigs or hardwirings.
arties are capless, rails do kin/therm, the best all round dmg type combination in game, lasers do em/therm and has more range and less reload to compensate, and cap issues.
more base tracking but less if you don't want to gimp your fit..
grats you found a humongus list containing 1 ship that can successfully fit tachyons in a sniper fit run to the forum mobile...
obviously tach's are overpowered cause they are viable as sniper setup on 1 ship cause sniping doesn't require any tank or mid/low slot variation, and can barely be fitted on other ships. do call the ccp hotline. something must be done.
ps. train em armor compensation V.
|
7shining7one7
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 18:22:00 -
[3]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 06/02/2009 18:24:31
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Captator
Your argument is incomplete, the apocalypse may be a better sniper, but it is weaker as a close range boat than the megathron and hyperion
That is why i clearly pointed out there are OTHER amarr BS are better at close range than the mega or hype.
Amarr have a better sniper than any gallente or mini BS, a better mid range BS than any gallente or mini BS and a better close range BS than any gallente or mini BS.
Apoc = better than any gallente or mini BS at long range.
Geddon and baddon = better at short and mid range than any any gallente or mini BS.
Picking the apoc and saying it is worse than the meaga at close range is stupid cos if you can fly the apoc you can fly the bloody geddon or baddon as well and you would fit them for a close range OP.
Go away troll.
amarr is not gonna get changed just cause apoc is a viable sniper.. (how long was it completely useless again?)
also geddon and baddon better at short and mid range than any gallente or mini bs?  pest, phoon, domi, thron, all subpar to geddon and baddon since when.. ?
ALSO..
what the f has all of this to do with tachyons... cause this sounds more and more like an "omg nerf amarr" thread. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 13:20:00 -
[4]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 13:24:06
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 13:22:45
Originally by: Murina
The Myrm fitted using 2 EANMs. Stats are:
Shield: 4883 (12.5, 30, 47.5. 56.3)
Armor: 11110 (75.1, 67.6, 67.6, 55.1)
Hull: 5371 (60, 60, 60, 60)
[Myrmidon, myrm]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II
armor resists: 87.2% 67.6% 83.3% 55.1%
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 13:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 13:34:36
nah what's next is this:
the raw paper dps is an argument you can toss straight out the window
the actual inflicted damage is what matters.. so on paper some amarr ships do more dps than gallente but in actuality gallente has more overall inflicted damage, due to kin/therm... they also have the most powerful drones (hob II, ogre II, garde II, firbolg)
gallente is a pretty good race.. i can fly their cmd ships and hac's.. and they're quite neat and have awesome tanking.
i would even venture to say that gallente are some of the strongest armor tankers in game.. due to them skipping explosive dmg and having higher em therm and kin as base, thus gaining an edge.
the only ones who have serious issues against amarr are shield tankers with their low EM..
armor tankers have natural high em.. gallente does the best inflicted damage type in game.. they then have range issues when it comes to their blasters in order to compensate, but that hasn't stopped gallente from being king of the hill in pvp for what.. 3 years?
then combat starts to favour mid range, and ppl start flying amarr more.. or they become more viable.. not cause they do more actual inflicted dmg than gallente but because their range is more appropriate for the combat style now, thus the lower inflicted damage becomes a smaller factor.
and here you are pointing out what exactly? |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 13:47:00 -
[6]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 13:55:04
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 13:52:26
Originally by: Murina
So in your game of eve only gallente can use gallente drones or you think gallente get special bonuses to gallente drones in particular?, and the tanking idea is lame cos every tank plugs the resistance holes in its Armour/shields even plated setups do so. Maybe when ccp lets you shoot the unfitted ships on the market your ideas on resists will have some basis in reality.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
but that hasn't stopped gallente from being king of the hill in pvp for what.. 3 years?
You slept through the whole nano era with the vaga and rapier owning all did ya?.
i can fly gallente cmd ships and hacs, so i actually have flown gallente ships..
the base resists are important cause they make the achievable resists that much higher.
the gallente resists are even more viable now that the nano era is over.
now if you want to talk against explosive dmg then gallente might have slight issues.
but vs amarr.. they are simply sublime.. the irony of gallente whining about facing amarr is just mindblowing..
there's a reason why per the storyline the gallente federation stopped the amarr empire from taking over eve..
there's a reason why gallente skips explosive resists in order to get high em and good kin/therm resists.. that's cause that's exactly what is good to do against amarr.. and the kin covers the other two races.. the explo is a marginal issue that only is rough when facing minny or caldari pilots who focus solely on explo aka are fit purely to combat gallente (and that's more the exception than the rule).
gallente have it easy against amarr.. even more so than amarr/minny.. minny's got their asses kicked by amarr.. they used to be slaves of the amarr.. amarr has higher explo resists and lowered kin/therm in order to combat minny..
and in comes gallente exploiting that amarr has minny as their natural enemy and thus has higher explo but lower kin/therm, and literally tears them apart..
complain all you want about the apoc being viable as sniper, gallente is still the king of actual inflicted damage when being within optimal. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 14:12:00 -
[7]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 14:13:12
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 13:59:17
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Now unless ccp are gonna enforce storyline mechanics and make it imposable for certain ships to fire at others you will be facing a variety of ships and races in combat so i suggest you omni tank.
PPL plug the holes they have in resists...FACT, just because they have a hole in explosive on a unfitted ship does not mean gallente are weak against it cos its the first area they will plug.
The graphs i posted cover the most popular omni gang tanks in the game, anybody can fit race specific resists, and as such base dmg types vs market/unfitted resists is a worthless way of balancing systems.
you use a myrm where you only fit 2 eanm II's and a dc II in the low and nothing else, leaving 3 low slots unattended to.
you then use those resists to market your idea that amarr is superior
i fill out the rest of the low slots showing how tough a deal amarr is being cut with their primary/secondary dmg types against gallente.. and you backtrack saying it's erroneous cause you need to omni fit.. guess what.. the fit had 55% explo.. 83% kin, 87% em and 67% therm.. that's one of the best omni fits you can get out of a myrm without using faction or rigs..
and then you go back to your on paper raw dps discussion..
why don't you just admit that the only answer you are willing to accept is not the right one, but only the one that fits with your line of arguments.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 14:34:00 -
[8]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 14:36:41
NOTE: The dps in this fit is a result of using 5 hardwirings.. a 5% rof, a 5% pg, a 5% cap and a 5% large hybrid dmg.
i present to you:
[Hyperion, Onslaught]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Domination Stasis Webifier
Domination 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
ehp 90k.
20k armor
dps: 1337 with t1 antimatter (yep i'm not kidding bout the 1337)
dps: 1514 with caldari navy antimatter..
cap for 3 minutes with everything on.
cap stable with everything on (except mwd), at 57%
find me an abaddon, apoc or geddon that can live through that.. they might be able to fire lasers but they can't move around for **** due to pg/cap issues..
pwn? i dare say it is.. it's kin/therm dmg type.. which means significantly more inflicted damage than amarr could ever dream of.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 14:43:00 -
[9]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 14:44:23
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
silly 1 v 1 sissi fit that relies on the opposing ship being already at close range, alone and its warp engines broken to kill anything.....
The one that warps off cos its not pointed would survive i suppose......
What would be the available range of that max dps btw?...1-2ish km
2.5km and 15k falloff.. 11km and 16k falloff with null.. and 1236 dps..
but blasters aren't for long range, it's the usual mwd + web.
why would you fit a point, that's what your tacklers are for, this is an arrive late ship.
also if you are talking a clear 1v1 gallente would pwn amarr every f'ing time.. amarr is dependent on gallente to be out of range.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 15:00:00 -
[10]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 15:02:54
lol at the hype fit in the graph, the hype fit i presented is well above the dps scale in that
i love how you are trying to slide the cap stable hyperion 1514 dps fit back in the pages by spamming your graph picture..
and it's not just 2.5km.. it's 15km falloff and it has a 15km web fitted.. and 1514 dps ffs!!!!
and if you wanna opt for 27k range (optimal + falloff) with null then you got 1236 dps..
show me an amarr ship that can do that..
also do you suggest amarr pilots starts mwd'ing out of range? i'd love to see the cap calculations and the viable fits for that.
amarr can sit still and tank nicely, do medium inflicted dmg from medium range or warp out.
i really can't see how 1514 dps kin/therm (best overall dmg types) is subpar to a 600 dps abaddon who can't move and has cap issues.. but i'm sure you're right.. amarr are just uber at everything..
|
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 15:14:00 -
[11]
NOTE: The dps in this fit is a result of using 5 hardwirings.. a 5% rof, a 5% pg, a 5% cap, a -5% turret cap usage, and a 5% large hybrid dmg.
So.. without further ado.. i present to you:
[Hyperion, Onslaught]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Domination Stasis Webifier
Domination 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
EM: 69.3%, THERM: 60.3%, KIN: 60.3%, EXPLO: 45%
ehp 90k.
20k armor
dps: 1337 with t1 antimatter (yep i'm not kidding bout the 1337)
dps: 1514 with caldari navy antimatter.. 5143k volley damage
cap for 3 minutes with everything on. mwd speed 891ms.
cap stable with everything on (except mwd), at 57%
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 15:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and it's not just 2.5km.. it's 15km falloff and it has a 15km web fitted.. and 1514 dps ffs!!!!
and if you wanna opt for 27k range (optimal + falloff) with null then you got 1236 dps..
Interest way of putting things when you accuse me of fudging facts, lol you include a domi web and then use the max dmg figures in the same breath as fall off ranges.....
You preached earlier about resists and tracking, range ect ect and yet you post a domi web fitted sissi fit and try to match max alpha dmg with fall off ranges... your a joke and a poor excuse for a manipulator.
At least gourm kept his figures realistic and measured even if he did stretch out his graphs to make the low range gaps seem larger and cut off the max range of lasers...i suggest you try apprenticing to him he aint great but he is heads and shoulders above you.
even at allmost max falloff it will still do more dps than an abaddon.. and even more inflicted dmg due to the damage types... AND it can move at 981ms.. a t1 amarr bs would be wise to warp out if it encountered this and wasn't pointed..
that's also what you don't get.. that's why amarr doesn't have to reload.. cause of the cap issues, cause of the half assed dps if you plan to survive and because of the em/therm which means less inflicted damage..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 15:41:00 -
[13]
i used that fit to illustrate what's possible with a hype..
and it clearly is corroborating evidence to testify to how futile your whole amarr is uber rant is..
the hardwirings cost about 100m a pop.. you only really need 1 rig, the pg 5% to get the fit..
i just like the other ones in general for other fits.. but for this particular fit only need 1 of em.
and with only that hardwiring the dps goes from 1514 to 1385 with 4898k volley damage..
so that's a hype + a 100m implant.. npc faction mwd, web and heatsinks (around hmm 150m) and some t2 neuts, a hybrid t2 rig (around 50m for that one and 40m for a couple t1 trimarks) and that'll be around hmm.. 480m.. not too shabby for 1385 kin/therm dps.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 15:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 16:04:40
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 15:25:55
Originally by: 7shining7one7
even at allmost max falloff it will still do more dps than an abaddon.. especially on the amarr ships who has a tendency to just sit there since they can't fit mwd's properly..
If a amarr pilot chooses to sit still and get pwned that is their choice, and just as a matter of interest how much do all those +5 and domi web stuff cost ( yea a 100 isk each on sissi lol) compared to a standard T2 amaar BS?.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and even more inflicted dmg due to the damage types...
SO ITS GREAT AT HITTING UNFITTED SHIPS wow...
Originally by: 7shining7one7
a t1 amarr bs would be wise to warp out if it encountered this
A domi web fitted, +5 implanted T2 fitted BS...how about if the fight started at 40-50km?....
unfitted ships? are you as stupid as to suggest that em/therm is harder to fit against than kin/therm for gallente ? i just demonstrated how easy it was on the myrm.. to get an omnifit that defends against both high kin (83%) and high em (87%).. and 55% explo and 67% therm.. fitting against EM/THERM is piece of cake for gallente.
a point.. oh go ahead and use a midslot on an abaddon for a point then.. see how that works out for ya.. oh yeah and add an mwd too and try and outrun the hype and see how much cap you got left after that
if the fight starts at 40-50km:
mwd'ing at 981ms it'll be there in about a minute.. that means the abaddon has 1 minute to burn away 9k shield and atleast 10k out of the 20k armor.. (ehp 90k, resists: EM 69.5% THERM: 60.3% ) if he doesn't the hype will take the abaddon down before the hype is in structure (which it has 10k of with 60% resists).
this is in other words the worst scenario for the hype vs an abaddon.. and it isn't even that bad.. solo the hype would win it if the abaddon didn't warp or had an officer fit or some such crazyness..
the best scenario? fight starts at 20km cause hype warps in on a m8 as it should, 8 secs later target is webbed with overloaded domination webifier.. 2 minutes later abaddon is dead. (1541 dps vs 600)
NOW MORE IMPORTANT..
i'll concede that the way eve warfare is today, the abaddon is nice cause combat favours midrange..
but don't even attempt to make this about overpowered dps.. it has diddly to do with anything but range..
if someone gets within range of the stationary golden laser castles that amarr ships are.. those castles can crumble.. especially if it's gallentean blasterships that get near em.
and since your post was about proving that amarr has overpowered weapons or dps compared to gallente.. and that has now been nailed in the coffin quite severely.. we can conclude that your real issue with amarr is that they are now favoured in combat, not cause of their dmg.. but cause of their tankage and mid range capabilities and not requiring reloads which makes them nice for prolonged midrange engagements and looting..
their damage type still sucks.. they are just allowed to sit and burn ppl a whole lot more than was viable in the past..
adapt your combat style.. get a claymore in gang (watch the alliance tournament) and mwd towards them or warp in late on a tacklemate as he approaches the targets so you don't have to start 50km out with a blaster fit.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 16:25:00 -
[15]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 16:33:14
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
if the fight starts at 40-50km:
mwd'ing at 981ms it'll be there in about a minute..
Much longer than that actually as the amarr bs can do near 700ms so you travel at 300ms towards it hitting for 0 while it is tearing into your tank.
BTW i did a sissi abaddon fit and while i am not as practiced at dream style b*llsh*t fits and scenarios that you think mean a damn i did get the abaddon up to 1235 dps with a 15km MAX DPS optimal and 10km fall off although i may have missed a implant or two.
BUT the fact is your scenarios and fits are utterly unrealistic on TQ for gang pvp, even morondongs biased cut off stretched out graphs are more realistic than the crap you just posted compared to the reality of eve tq pvp.
are you even attempting to make an iota of sense.. how the f is an abaddon gonna travel faster than an mwd'ing hype going 981ms without the abaddon being at 50% cap before it can say hello presidente..
also how do you propose to fit point tracking cap and mwd in the 4 mid slots on an abaddon.. or are you gonna use the lows for cpr's (that's even worse, there goes your tanking and/or less dmg mods) and even then your cap will still have issues.. and what for rigs.. you gotta plug out those shiny dmg rigs cause you need cap. cap cap cap or buffer tank buffer tank buffer tank is the main rule with an abaddon.. damage is tertiary..
wtb abaddon fit with 1200 dps that has no cap issues and can mwd away from a hyperion whilst firing without running out of cap before you can say bobs your uncle..
edit: i think you forgot about null: 11km optimal 16km falloff: 1236 dps.. (27km total range vs 28km multifreq megapulse range) and that's where the ships are getting close to meeting, the ships are very close at this point.. and it is just 15 secs before the hype gets there to open up a can of antimatter whopass.. and from 27km and forward.. gallente is superior due to damage type.. also.. falloff = switch crystals for amarr cause amarr sucks in falloff.. gallente are great in falloff, and minny are all about falloff..
and i think you fail quite severely if you think that abaddon pilots using megapulse doesn't use scorch or standard predominately.. cause they sure as f ain't gonna mwd to the target unless they plan to not do a whole lot of dps (cause of the cap fitting gymnastics).. you might want to factor actual crystals used into your dmg calculations aswell..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 16:36:00 -
[16]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 16:39:58
Originally by: Murina
Faction mods work wonders and considering that you introduced them i thought id use them.
Serves you right for introducing silly sissi dream fits pal.
show me the fit.. the hype fit i showed you is around 500m with the ship and everything including hardwiring. showing that 1348 dps on a hype is hardly a sissi dream.. and if you got 200 more mill to spare, you can turn up the heat to 1514 dps.
then we'll go through price, cap stability and the other weaknesses in it.. how will it do when it's firing guns and mwd'ing, what's its ehp and resists, and what's its dps with scorch and standard. 
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 16:41:00 -
[17]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 16:42:30
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Originally by: Murina
Faction mods work wonders and considering that you introduced them i thought id use them.
Serves you right for introducing silly sissi dream fits pal.
show me the fit.. the hype fit i showed you is around 500m with the ship and everything including hardwiring. showing that 1348 dps on a hype is hardly a sissi dream.. and if you got 200 more mill to spare, you can turn up the heat to 1514 dps.
then we'll go through price, cap stability and the other weaknesses in it.. i wonder how it feels if it gets neuted..
How about instead of being negative you fit a baddon as uberly as you wanted the hype to be?, or do you prefer nit picking?.
you can't fit a hype as you would fit a abaddon.. it's two different combat styles.. that's what i'm trying to point out..
the gallente one is far more lethal than the amarrian one, but since the amarrian one is preferred combat style these days.. (prolongued stationary mid range remote repping/tanking engagements with less individual dps) we see you whining that they somehow have more dps.. when that is not at all the case.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 17:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 16:58:06
Making up excuses already?, are you gonna get on with it or not?.
Cap stable for 3 mins 47 secs with everything running btw (3 mins 2 secs with a t2 point fitted) although i did not use the cap implants, cos my eft skills are not as practiced as yours at silly dream fits as i tend towards the reality of tq.
post your fit?
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 17:16:00 -
[19]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 17:25:58
[Abaddon, golden castle]
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Damage Control II
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5
ehp 106k
EM: 82.7% THERM: 77.5% KIN: 74% EXPLO: 72.3%
dps: 836 - 45km+10 falloff.
cap: 12m (the cap II rig takes it from 6m to 12m)
with hardwirings: 5%rof 5%dmg 5%cap and 5%cap usage on turrets = 907 dps and stable at 37%
notice how much goes to just keeping the sucker cap stable (i added a t2 cap rig which isn't cheap) whilst firing its guns.. now you get an idea about the amount of cap issues amarr has..
and you want to add mwd on it too.. and a point.. and then you'll last what.. 3 minutes.. there goes the whole idea about being a stationary golden castle melting stuff from mid range.. you'll warp in, fire your guns for 3 minutes.. warp out.. good job.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 17:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Murina
1192 dps, faction multi freq 15+10
959 dps, scorch 45+10 (so op its a joke)
5 mins 42 secs cap
21k armour 107k ehp (better overall resists)
or 28k armour 108kehp
post your f'ing fit..
so that i can tell you that your mobility is futile if you want to keep firing your guns and tanking the dmg, the hype will get right up in your face and it'll give you 1514 dps.. and you'll go out in a blaze of glory.. or warp out.
5 mins of cap usage on an abaddon is a f'ing joke.. you probably full plated it too didn't you, in order to be able to mwd around.. how fast are you going with that cute little mwd btw..
just post your fit, i'm looking forward to seeing it. |
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 17:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 17:33:23
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and you want to add mwd on it too.. and a point.. and then you'll last what.. 3 minutes..
WOW is that bad then????.....
Originally by: 7shining7one7
So.. without further ado.. i present to you:
[Hyperion, Onslaught]....................................
cap for 3 minutes with everything on.
you missed the cap stable when mwd is turned off part.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 17:40:00 -
[22]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 17:46:40
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 17:44:03
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 17:38:04
Originally by: 7shining7one7
you missed the cap stable when mwd is turned off part..
Are you a bloody goldfish cos your memory sucks...read your own posts ffs....
Originally by: 7shining7one7
So.. without further ado.. i present to you:
[Hyperion, Onslaught]....................................
cap for 3 minutes with everything on.
cap stable with everything on (except mwd), at 57%
yeah...
it has plenty of time to get to the target and even being neuted on the way, (mwd and dcII only)
and when it gets to the target, it webs it 18km out and its cap stays at 57% while it lays its 1514 (expensive) or 1398 (500m) dps can of whopass on the poor sod in the opposing ship.. hence.. cap stable.. what's your point? *confused*
i do have a navy apoc called goldfish though, dno if that counts.. also.. goldfishies are cute and purdy.
also i'm enjoying this conversation, shedding some light on the issue... and you're a good debater.. but let's both try and stay factual and with that said.. i'd really appreciate it if you posted that fit so that we can talk about it in detail..
you keep mentioning attributes of it but you refuse to show it.. in the interest of candor and a good discussion it seems only fair you should bring it to the table when i have brought 2 fits to the table and all you have shown me is a graph you take out of context and use to proclam amarr overpowered because they have longer range with pulse than gallente has with blasters..
and that's hardly a sound argument now is it. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 17:52:00 -
[23]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 17:59:22
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
it webs it 18km out and its cap stays at 57% while it lays its 1514 (expensive) or 1398 (500m) dps can of whopass on the poor sod in the opposing ship.. hence.. cap stable.. what's your point? *confused*
Wrong noob the 1514 dps it at 4.5km (optimal), not in falloff and the baddon has a domi web as well so your fighting in fall off for 15 webbed km while the baddon is putting 1200 optimal 0 transversal dps on your ass.
null gives 1230 dps and has 11km optimal 16k falloff kin/therm (null is designed to fight against a webbing enemy), what's your kin/therm resists?
i'm quite sure your whole mwd'ing routine whilst firing your guns is completely unrealistic with regards to the cap used.. and i doubt you're gonna chew through 90k ehp in 5 minutes on a moving target,
even IF it takes that long for him to reach you considering you probably dual plated it which makes your acceleration suck.. a factor you missed.. when he's moving you're gonna hit less cause i'm guessing you don't have tracking puters on the last mid slot.. and then what.. your cap will have run out and he'll just navigate right to left making you miss a bit..
and if you keep running the hype will just warp out.. since it's the one who's chasing you and you got nothing on it..
also wtf is the point of your point on your abaddon fit.. the whole strength of the abaddon is mid range.. when is your point ever going to be feasible, i'm pretty sure the hype don't give a **** about being pointed by an abaddon.. considering the range the abaddon has to be at in order to point it.. more of a blessing than a curse for the hype pilot really..
the inconsiderate nature of putting a point a web and an mwd on an abaddon is staggering.. which now more than ever gives me a desire to see your "overpowered" abaddon fit show me them jewels..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 17:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Selia Rain
Quotin' myself to make a point.
Quote:
geddon with megapulse II, 3x sinks, and 2x plates with EANM II needs to fit a named DCU to fit. To get an MWD on in with cap booster you need to drop a plate or not cap boost(yeah, right, when just your guns firing cap you out in a few minutes) to get the pg.
Mega can comfortably fit 2x plates, MWD, electrochem injector, and T2 neutrons. With 2mfs, you're doing just slightly less turret dps than the geddon(but geddon deals full dps at 15km), and being gallente and only caring about raw damage, you are probably using ogre II just for the dps boost, but that's speculation(I heart berserkers). You have 8k more EHP, and an MWD fit. If you opt for 3x MFS you have a bit less buffer, but a whole lot more dps.
Abbadon can comfortably fit as the mega, and deals even less damage(not even counting the smallish dronebay), with less cap stability, and far more ehp than the geddon. In an abbadon(which is not a great solo ship, but it can work) solo, I'd feel comfortable engaging a mega due to sheer ehp and my warrior II/vespa II/valk IIs can be annoying to your ogres.
In neither situation do my lazors give me a significant advantage over your blasters. I'm doing less raw damage on far stronger resists, in fact. I can't kite you at all due to being slow as a sedated snail in molasses, so the only percieved advantage I have is that I can lay into you with scorch, then navy AM as you close before you rip my face off.
The only *real* advantage a lazor boat has is not having to mwd all over the place during a fight.
Period.
Lazors are harder to fit. They take more cap. They *still* hit on your highest resists on armor(lol, I annihilate your shields in a mega and you care a whole lot, right? LOLEQUALIZEDRESISTS), they have the worst tracking of any close ranged weapon, and finally they do less raw dps. They generally invoke a ship bonus just so they can be used, and on lazor ships without that bonus(looking at you, abbadon), they use stupid massive amounts of cap.
Downsize to ions, fit a heavy neut, and you'll surely easily overpower any abbadon in a hypothetical 1v1 situation.
exactly.. he doesn't get it..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 18:04:00 -
[25]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 18:05:19
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and i doubt you're gonna chew through 90k ehp in 5 minutes
Your own silly baddon fit did near 1000dps so 5 mins = 300secs x 1000dps = 300,000dps noob, that is 3 x the amount of dmg needed.
Oh and my fit is the one with the point pal not yours....
what was silly about it? please clarify.
i wouldn't call 907 dps 1000 dps, that's a pretty big round up.. (also that was including 3 x 100m hardwirings and a full faction fit in the lows (excluding plate and dcII) including an expensive t2 cap rig mind you)
also you're basing all of this on that the hype warps in 50km away from you and that you got no tacklers holding you down.. rather than him warping in allmost on top of you.
so in other words you're basing this on a 1 on 1.. and the only thing you've said is that the abaddon can run away whilst dealing dmg and wearing the hype down if the fight starts at 50km away..
also you've failed to recognize that having dual plates on that abaddon you will accelerate very slowly.. which means your eta to target calculation is askew..
i still want to see that fit..
you've proved diddly about how amarr has superior dps.. because they don't.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 18:06:00 -
[26]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 18:06:36
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
.....BLAH..
Fixed.
oh cmon, don't be silly..
just post that fit so we can debate this further, i find this debate with you interesting, i hope you do aswell.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 18:30:00 -
[27]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 18:35:36
In the interest of remaining factual and candid allow me to repost the hype fit he's ridiculing, with a few added comments.
NOTE: The dps in this fit is a result of using 5 hardwirings.. a 5% rof, a 5% pg, a 5% cap, a -5% turret cap usage, and a 5% large hybrid dmg.
allthough technically you can drop everything but the pg hardwiring, and get cap stable with 1398 dps (total price including ship, little over 500m give or take), i chose to add all the hardwirings for the 1514 dps rich kid on the block fit, and also because with all 5 hardwirings and t1 antimatter the dps spells out 1337 which was just too humorous not to be taken note of. i mean wtf are the odds right..
So.. without further ado.. i present to you:
[Hyperion, Onslaught]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Domination Stasis Webifier
Domination 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Antimatter Charge L
Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
EM: 69.3%, THERM: 60.3%, KIN: 60.3%, EXPLO: 45%
ehp 90k.
20k armor
dps: 1337 with t1 antimatter (yep i'm not kidding bout the 1337)
dps: 1514 with caldari navy antimatter.. 5143k volley damage
cap for 3 minutes with everything on. mwd speed 891ms.
cap stable with everything on (except mwd), at 57%
now.. it's a pure gank fit.. and it might be a tad ballsy in some ways but it's not all that expensive and more importantly it shows the amount of dps the hyperion can dish out..
i showed the fit to impress upon on muria just how much dps gallente ships are capable of doing to illustrate how amarr does not have overpowered dps and that neither pulse nor tachyons are overpowered due to the implications of fitting, cap and the other factors discussed in the last 3 pages..
now please post your fit muria.. the abaddon fit.. and "figure it out tard" is hardly a conducive response for a healthy debate.. you've been stone walling us for 2 pages.. now give it or get out.. quite frankly.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 18:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 18:51:46
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Madner Kami
Originally by: Murina
1000 raw dps for 5 mins vs a approaching ship with 0 transversal.
You are the one, complaining that he brings in EFT-theory fits and think someone is going to chase you down head-on straight forward? How silly is that? Any halfway itnelligent pilot would surely engage in a non straight line and if not beeing able to keep up in time just warp out or call his tackle-wing.
You're the throwing out a limited set of figurative numbers on a sheet of paper, concentrating on these singular aspects of ships and thinking the world is running this way.
Ok pal if you think a BS at say 30+km can generate enough transveral AND approach to negate the tracking of pulse go ahead and prove it.
Oh and the scenario was not my idea btw and i have commented on the fact several times, his hype fit did not even have a frigin point fitted ffs.
and from what i can gather your "most excellent abaddon" fit has.. two plates (well that's allright i guess) but.. wait for it.. .. mwd.. web.. scram.. and then a full rack of pulses.. and apparently it can run everything for 5 minutes..
what good is the web when you can only activate it on the hype when the hype is within null range (1236 dps), what good is the scram when you can only activate it within similar range.. what good is the mwd when you have two plates and accellerate as slow as a fully loaded truck.. and what good is your "1000 dps" when you are facing a moving target that changes direction slightly making you miss../reduces your dmg..
and what have you said by that other than if the battle starts at 50km, an abaddon can run like the ****ens from the hype and hope that the hype stays on the field and doesn't warp off..
the dps showed abaddon was inferior (it had to run, in fact that was your first instinctual reaction to the fit.. quite ironic when looking at the long rant you have presented about socalled overpowered amarr dps in this thread) and your abaddon fit is highly questionable as for its usage with regards to a plethora of things we can address when you finally decide to post the fit.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 18:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Selia Rain
Also note, even if lazor optimal was cut to 10km base(from 24), scorch would still grant a 18.75km optimal. OHNOEZ, A ZONE WHERE I OUTDAMAGE A MEGA!
something must be done.. this is terrible!
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 18:59:00 -
[30]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 19:02:28
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/02/2009 18:54:47
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 18:25:06
Originally by: NightmareX
Murina, post your ubersuperdupermegaawesome setup or STFU.
Figure it out tard, the basic fit aint so different that silly hype sissi fit he posted.
Stop calling peoples for idiots or tards.
If you don't know it, i was asking for the Abaddon fit, not the Hyperion fit. Wake up maybe?.
And stop quoting 2 times on something i have said.
And also, that Hyperion with that fit will horribly die to my Tempest if i get some few jam cycles on you.
i made the fit to combat an amarr bs and to show how much dmg potential the hype has. because muria was complaining how gallente is supposedly inferior to the mighty laser dps of the amarrian fleet.
it's a balls to the wall gank fit and it is obviously not feasible vs a pest that gets jam cycles in..
but it does show the point that amarr dps is definately not overpowered.. which is what muria was arguing.. and ironically his counter to it was a abaddon fit based solely on running like the ****ens for 5 minutes till the cap is drained, whilst dishing out significantly less dps (eventhough he tried to squeeze as much dps juice out of the abbaddon as was at all possible pretty much) whilst ignoring all other factors.. (he fitted mwd web and scram in the mids of an abaddon fgs.. if that isn't desperation i don't know what is.)
and i second that.. muria, quite being a party ****er and post YOUR abaddon fit |
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:07:00 -
[31]
you're being such a twit right now..
you don't fit a mwd web and scram on an abaddon... because it only has 4 mid slots and massive cap issues due to lack of capacitor ship bonus..
you get someone else to scram..
i could fit a scram on the hype.. because the hype has 5 mid slots.. the 57% cap stability is more useful if it is neuted so i opted for that when i rushed the fit together to prove the point of the dps.. if i fitted a point on the hype i'd still have 37% cap stability.. how you like them apples? i could also go dual web instead.. we'll see how far you would go then.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:14:00 -
[32]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 19:16:25
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
you're being such a twit right now..
you don't fit a mwd web and scram on an abaddon... because it only has 4 mid slots and massive cap issues due to lack of capacitor ship bonus..
you get someone else to scram..
i could fit a scram on the hype.. because the hype has 5 mid slots.. the 57% cap stability is more useful if it is neuted so i opted for that when i rushed the fit together to prove the point of the dps.. if i fitted a point on the hype i'd still have 37% cap stability.. how you like them apples? i could also go dual web instead.. we'll see how far you would go then.
Here is the thing, if i was fitting to beat another BS and i had a hype to fit to do it i would not passive tank it id twin rep and high resistant tank it with a cap booster and 800s.
yes.. but you're missing the point of the fit.. i was illustrating the immense dps that is possible with a hype.. and your attempt to do the same with an abaddon didn't even come close to the hype.. thus the point that amarr dps is not overpowered vs gallente is quite obvious.
indeed if you were looking for a rock solid battle hardened hype fit, you'd regularly use cap boosters, but that was not the point of the fit. so stop pretending that it was and ridiculing it for pretending to be something it never proclaimed to be.
and post your f'ing fit.. it's unbelievable how adamant you are being about dodging it. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 19:21:06
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Your post was pointless and unrealistic for TQ.
yes.. but you're missing the point of the fit.. i was illustrating the immense dps that is possible with a hype.. and your attempt to do the same with an abaddon didn't even come close to the hype.. thus the point that amarr dps is not overpowered vs gallente is quite obvious.
Do you wear blinkers?..is really having minor amount of dps from 2km-4.5km summat you consider a immense thing when the baddon has 1200 from 2km upto 15km and nearly 1000 from 15 out to 45km?.
That is 20% less dps for 300% less range with faction T1 (if i let the hype and baddon hit at 0km witch they cannot).
indeed if you were looking for a rock solid battle hardened hype fit, you'd regularly use cap boosters, but that was not the point of the fit. so stop pretending that it was.
ignoring the lack of proper quoting.. the 4.5km is optimal, you are disregarding how well gallente work in falloff when the target is more or less stationary.. you are also disregarding null which has 11km optimal and 16km falloff and 1236 dps with that fit.
you are also ignoring the actual dmg inflicted and only looking at raw dps.. em/therm is allways subpar to kin/therm when it comes to actual dmg inflicted..
also there is no such thing as faction t1.. it is either faction or it is t1, t2 has no faction charges, it is simply called t2 crystals (scorch/conflag) in the case of pulse and (aurora/gleam) in the case of beams..
in other words, you are blatantly misrepresenting things in order to "prove" that amarr has "overpowered dps".. and even with all that misrepresentation of calculations.. labelling the results as if all factors in the proper equation were considered.. the hype still has more dps on paper than the abaddon.. even when disregarding all factors.. so the argument is null and void..
we can however debate the range of pulses.. but the pulse range is there due to lack of proper dronage on amarr ships.. and the cap and fitting issues that amarr has more than balances out that differential. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:33:00 -
[34]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 19:36:19
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
ignoring the lack of proper quoting.. the 4.5km is optimal, you are disregarding how well gallente work in falloff when the target is more or less stationary.. you are also disregarding null which has 11km optimal and 16km falloff and 1236 dps with that fit.
No i did not i edited to include it, and 1236 is upto 11km that we are in fall off, stop playing with words and numbers.
both blasters and rails work quite well in falloff when the target is more or less stationary..
amarr however are absolutely ****ty in falloff.. which is why they have instant crystal change in order for them to constantly find their optimal so they don't miss completely or do absolutely horribly low damage..
minny work allmost completely in falloff.. and caldari have.. less to worry about in that category.
so let's just be clear about that shall we.. a hype in falloff does not hit diddly squat.. it actually hits quite well if the target is webbed and semi stationary..
now that we got that straight.. stop dodging and post that fit so that we have a little more than insinuations and proclamations to work with..
throw us a frigging bone fgs.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:40:00 -
[35]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 19:42:43
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
also the abaddon fit you are using is apparently alternating between 1000 and 1200 dps relative to when you reply.. which i find rather disconcerting..
Its called reloading (a thing amarr can do instantly) and operating in optimal
T1 MF = 0-15KM OPTIMAL @1200 DPS.
Scorch = 0- 45km OPTIMAL @ 1000DPS.
You reload from MF to scorch (instantly if your amarr) at 14ish km if he is moving away or at 15 from scorch to MF if he is moving closer, and thus you are always hitting in your ammo's optimal and hitting hard.
oh i see.. so what are you going to do between 35 and 15 km..? hope that you continue to inflict 1000 dps somehow?
edit: dude haven't you flown amarr or gallente? i thought you had but now i'm not sure..
amarr sucks in falloff.. and gallente are decent in falloff.. amarr also suck when you get too far below optimal.. but not as much as when you are in falloff.. in other words you will not be doing 1000dps all the way from 45km down to 15km..
i assumed you allready knew that? |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:46:00 -
[36]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 19:49:14
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
also the abaddon fit you are using is apparently alternating between 1000 and 1200 dps relative to when you reply.. which i find rather disconcerting..
Its called reloading (a thing amarr can do instantly) and operating in optimal
T1 MF = 0-15KM OPTIMAL @1200 DPS.
Scorch = 0- 45km OPTIMAL @ 1000DPS.
You reload from MF to scorch (instantly if your amarr) at 14ish km if he is moving away or at 15 from scorch to MF if he is moving closer, and thus you are always hitting in your ammo's optimal and hitting hard.
oh i see.. so what are you going to do between 35 and 15 km..? hope that you continue to inflict 1000 dps somehow?
Range makes tracking rather easy bud and its not like a approaching BS is a nimble ballerina dancing around as it approaches,....
actually low range makes tracking a whole lot harder, since the turret has to turn more.. especially around 20-30km with fast moving targets.. and increasing from there relative to the speed..
also are you aware that charges affect tracking? optimal isn't the only attribute they affect you know..
targets far away are less of an issue with regards to tracking, which is why long range turrets have worse tracking than short range turrets.. i'm amazed that you are not aware of this..
well a bs might not be a nimble ballerina but if it's going 981ms it's not exactly standing still either..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:51:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Selia Rain
I feel rather ignored in that when I countered every point, my post was just breezed by as if it didn't exist, but I'm just going to summarize the whole argument(again). Blasters are superior to lazors in every way sans range, and even if you nerfed the optimal of lazors by over 50%, that wouldn't change(still about 20km optimal/scorch, which is apparently unacceptible to you).
Blasters are king of closerange dps. Lazors are king of midrange dps. Blasters aren't supposed to compete with lazors past 10km.
you weren't ignored i agreed with you but he don't want to hear it.. he's busy flaundering his argument away by failing at nitpicking and even in the most rudimentary understanding of turrets.. all cause he doesn't want to post that fit that he keeps on talking about..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:54:00 -
[38]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 19:57:02
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 19:55:52
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
actually low range makes tracking a whole lot harder, since the turret has to turn more..
Thats why the web nerf screwed over blasters big time and why they had better tracking in the first place.
Oh and 15-45km aint low range pal.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
well a bs might not be a nimble ballerina but if it's going 981ms it's not exactly standing still either..
It aint doing a constant 981 transversal or even close to it either if its trying to approach. Especially with that domination 20km overheated web you gave us to fit....
You really should not give ppl guns until you know where they are gonna point them...
you've just proven that you have no f'ing clue what you're talking about..
first you say being below optimal has no effect on dps.. proclaiming that you can hit without any issues with scorch from 15 up to 45km.. with stable dps.. and act surprised when i mention that amarr has serious issues in falloff which is why they have insta crystal change to allways find their optimal (or the optimal crystal) and that crystals affect the tracking aswell as the optimal..
then you deny that gallente hits decently in fallof when the target is more or less stationary..
first you say tracking is easier when the target is closer..
then i point out that's blatantly false, along with some of your other misunderstandings of the in game dynamics..
and then you do a 180 and say that indeed tracking is harder when the target gets closer and then start whining about the web nerf..
seriously..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 20:00:00 -
[39]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 20:04:38
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 19:44:52
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 19:44:00
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
also the abaddon fit you are using is apparently alternating between 1000 and 1200 dps relative to when you reply.. which i find rather disconcerting..
Its called reloading (a thing amarr can do instantly) and operating in optimal
T1 MF = 0-15KM OPTIMAL @1200 DPS.
Scorch = 0- 45km OPTIMAL @ 1000DPS.
You reload from MF to scorch (instantly if your amarr) at 14ish km if he is moving away or at 15 from scorch to MF if he is moving closer, and thus you are always hitting in your ammo's optimal and hitting hard.
oh i see.. so what are you going to do between 35 and 15 km..? hope that you continue to inflict 1000 dps somehow?
Range makes tracking rather easy bud and its not like a approaching BS is a nimble ballerina dancing around as it approaches,....
But hey that is if i use scorch and do not just swap (instantly) to ranged faction with no penalties as it approaches....
we're talking about a ship that approaches from 45km to 15km.. whilst you're firing scorch on it (aka not at all within scorch optimal)... and you're saying how it just gets easier to track.. and that it'll be constant dps even if you keep using scorch down to 15km..
and you even say quite blatantly that you only have to switch to MF when he reaches 15km.. which means you proclaim that you can hit with stable dps with scorch from 45km down to 15km, on a target mwd'ing towards you.. and that it only hits harder or gets easier to hit as the target gets closer..
there you go, have your lulz.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 20:00:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Zamolxiss
@ Nightmare, Shining & Selia why do you bother!?
What you guys fail to understand is that maralt aka murina is a nerf amarr troll.. he's trolling every single thread he can and when he can't find one he starts one..
There are hundreds of pages on a few duzin different theads on half the sections of this forum, from Shis and Modules to Game Develoment, consisting of nothing but trolling and ranting from this guy and the rest of the nerf amarr brigade (Chi Quan, Arkady Sadik, SecHaul etc), just one example as i can't be bothered to look for more..
So i ask you again, why do you bother!?
point taken, leaving thread, thx for the heads up. cheers o/ |
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 20:12:00 -
[41]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 20:15:24
so you're telling me that you don't notice the curve going down from 950'ish dps to 820'ish dps on approaching targets using scorch?
the curve is probably on targets that are moving away rather than targets that are approaching..
and either way the dps drops..
are you contradicting yourself yet again.. inded you are..
yeah.. why bother.. go on then.. troll away.. cheers o/
f'ing idiot doesn't even understand his own curve diagram.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 20:57:00 -
[42]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 21:00:42
Originally by: Murina
if you notice.. gallente blasters are extreme low range charges.. which means that the lower your optimal with hybrid the more you are affected by falloff.. IF THE TARGET IS NOT STATIONARY... if it is stationary the falloff has less effect..
i've said countless times to you that gallente hits quite nicely in falloff if the target is more or less stationary..
gallente blasters have extreme low range.. therefore the charge looses speed fast.. and thus looses impact/damage potential fast aswell when it goes into falloff.. but it isn't that bad of a leap when the target is stationary.. since the charge doesn't have to "chase" the ship, say if the ship is moving away, then the charge has to chase the ship and collide, rather than if the ship is coming towards you the charge hits it head on.
now amarr are lasers and they are king of mid range.. they have pulses that does that for them.. their falloff is absolutely suck.. due to them being lasers..
if the target is stationary, due to them being lasers.. they still hit.. if the target starts moving towards them.. aka.. NOT TOWARDS THE OPTIMAL BUT BELOW THE OPTIMAL.. then something else happens and tracking becomes an issue and the dps is lessened aswell..
so there are two areas where lasers suck (depending on the crystal which influences optimal and tracking)
outside optimal.. known as falloff
and below optimal..
these two are NOT THE SAME BLOODY THING.. below optimal is not called falloff..
falloff is when the damage.. fades away.. or falls off if you will.. below optimal the damage is lessened aswell but it's a different process especially with lasers (i'll get to it)
now blasters.. they fire hybrid charges.. clumps of antimatter or whatever else charge.. but with blasters.. they fire them very slowly.. hence.. if the target does not remain stationary, the charge impacts less and does less damage in the falloff.. but if the charge remains stationary it hits decently in falloff.. hence the reason for the blaster/web combination..
rails.. contrary to blasters.. fire the charge at great speed.. achieving greater ranges, but the charge has to travel further, hence it is smaller.. and does less damage.. but due to it's speed (momentum) it works excellent in falloff..
thus.. gallente hybrids are great at long range, and great at short range.. but midrange they are kind of meh with regards to stability of the dps due to the two modes.. fast slugs or short slugs, thus the inbetween slugs don't do much dmg.. but have their uses..
lasers do not have speed issues with the charges.. but their lasers have other issues.. when it gets to optimal.. the laser fades out quite rapidly.. which is why they are forced to allways finding their optimal.. cycling between the charges..
going below laser optimal does also have issues with regards to tracking.. also the laser is less focused than it is at the optimal.. look at it like a magnifying glass.. when the glass is significantly far away it focuses the light and it burns the newspaper or whatever you used as a kid, when you put the magnifying glass too close.. the focus fades and the beam diminishes..
same thing going on in the ingame physics..
now to your example.. which is quite staggeringly misconcieved but with your previous contradictions and misrepresentations and misunderstandings.. i doubt it was intentionally.. nonetheless;
also what you are doing in the above example.. you might not have noticed but i did..
you take the scorch example when the ship is going towards scorch optimal..
and you take the null when the ship is going AWAY from null optimal..
and then you call it the same thing.. and say amarr is superior.. which is preposterous..
what you should've done was show a ship going towards scorch optimal.. (meaning moving away from you)
and showing null with the ship coming towards you.. (and being webbed, hence becoming stationary)
then you would see a much much different result
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:06:00 -
[43]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 21:06:17
and no muria.. as you see you still didn't understand your own f'ing curve diagram..
your example was severely flawed..
and the only one you repeadetly "owned" was yourself with your contradictions upon contradictions..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:09:00 -
[44]
you take the scorch example when the ship is going towards scorch optimal..
and you take the null when the ship is going AWAY from null optimal..
and then you call it the same thing.. and say amarr is superior.. which is preposterous..
what you should've done was show a ship going towards scorch optimal.. (meaning moving away from you)
and showing null with the ship coming towards you.. (and being webbed, hence becoming stationary) |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
i've said countless times to you that gallente hits quite nicely in falloff if the target is more or less stationary..
Fall off is fall off muppet the % of dmg reduction is static over every gunnery system..your such a fool.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
if the target is stationary, due to them being lasers.. they still hit.. if the target starts moving towards them.. aka.. NOT TOWARDS THE OPTIMAL BUT BELOW THE OPTIMAL.. then something else happens and tracking becomes an issue and the dps is lessened aswell..
Its only lateral movement that effect guns...all guns ffs.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
outside optimal.. known as falloff
and below optimal...
Being outside optimal has the same % reduction for every gunnery system, inside optimal does not effect the dps of system only lateral movement (transversal) and being outside optimal does you fool.
You have no idea wtf you are talking about.
well you sure did say fool quite a many times..
but let's look at it and just forget for a moment the contradictions you posted earlier before you changed your mind..
ok..
below falloff is not falloff.. and if the target is stationary you will hit a whole lot more with null in falloff than you will if the target is moving.. and with regards to hybrid charges, it sure also depends on if the target is moving away from your optimal or towards your optimal. (this is shown by your curve graph but you don't notice)
only lateral movement affect guns.. but lasers don't fire projectiles.. they fire a beam.. there's no holes in the beam.. thus it's instant and focused.. it's light.. and when they get closer to the optimal of the crystals optimal focus point for the laser beam.. then the effect diminishes and it gets less dps.. (this is shown by your curve graph, but you don't notice it)
projectiles or hybrid charges can't be equated with beams.. because they are not a beam but a moving object if you will.. (this is shown by your curve graph but you don't notice it)
your graph also shows that while hybrids and projectiles hit more in falloff.. whereas lasers come to a blinding halt.. but below optimal.. the lasers still get diminished dps due to tracking and due to the lack of focus of the crystal..
so as you can see.. even your own curve graph that you don't understand.. shows that falloff isn't just falloff..
muppet.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:48:00 -
[46]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 21:53:46
actually it's quite accurate what i've said..
your first graph shows how the neutron hyperion hits around 1200 dps with the fit you put in it (2 damage mods).. and showing how **** poor the abaddon scorch is compared to that..
the other abaddon that comes closer to the dps of the 2 dmg mod hyperion has 3 damage mods on it (hardly a fair comparison)
it also shows how the line is nicely and slowly curving into optimal for the null.. and gradually becoming greater damage with the scorch.. so regardless if the ship is moving away or towards the ship in this situation (it is quite relevant which is the case please clarify)
it clearly shows that hyperion blasters does more damage and is graceful in falloff.. and that lasers are **** poor in falloff.. and that the scorch is below optimal rather than outside optimal in falloff which is why it does not loose as much dps when it is below optimal, than it does when it goes over optimal and into actual falloff.. because there.. it drops allmost instantly.. as expected..
the next graph where the ships are stationary.. (apparently you chose to pick ION blasters and MEGATHRONS this time to show less dmg than what the hype delivers.. now you are comparing tier2 gallente ship to a tier3 amarr ship)
but nonetheless this also shows how graceful the blasters are in falloff.. and shows how scorch maintains dps since the target is not moving and how lasers are **** poor in the falloff.. thus showing that falloff is not just falloff..
you apparently say "best navy" with the yellow abaddon with megapulse.. which charge is that again.. and what is the optimal for it. because as you can clearly tell the low optimal progression is totally inconsistant with how the scorch behaves... here we see a loong gradual falloff.. totally inconsistent with lasers when they are beyond their optimal.. it even goes so far as to cross scorch and level out at the same time.. yeah right..
whichever the case is with these two...
what you have shown is...
a) hybrids are graceful in falloff..
b) hybrids do way more dmg than lasers
c) you've compared a midrange weapon (which scorch becomes when you put it in a megapulse) to an extreme short range weapon, and then saying that dps is the issue when really the dps is less on lasers but they have more range and thus have to move less to get within optimal.. and thus lasers do more damage over time unless hybrid users move and get within their optimal in which case the tables turn..
d) shown clearly that amarr is not overpowered to any degrees with regards to dps.. and that they are indeed kings of mid range, and that gallente are kings of short range..
which is exactly the opposite of what you have been whining about the entire thread..
great job
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:58:00 -
[47]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 22:03:47
what you have shown is...
a) hybrids are graceful in falloff..
b) hybrids do way more dmg than lasers, when ignoring resists and dmg types and especially when factoring them in to find the actual dmg inflicted..
c) you've compared a midrange weapon (which scorch becomes when you put it in a megapulse) to an extreme short range weapon, and then saying that dps is the issue when really the dps is less on lasers but they have more range and thus have to move less to get within optimal.. and thus lasers do more damage over time unless hybrid users move and get within their optimal in which case the tables turn..
d) shown clearly that amarr is not overpowered to any degree with regards to dps.. and that they are indeed kings of mid range, and that gallente are kings of short range.. good at long range, and mediocre at mid range. and has the best base resists and damage type combination to battle amarr than any other race in game. (which is why amarr has gotten shafted by gallentean megathrons for ages)
which is exactly the opposite of what you have been whining about the entire thread..
great job
cmon.. where's your amarr is overpowered rant.. when all your graphs show otherwise..
what a f'ing failure.. you forgot what you were ranting about.. and went on a great trolling adventure till you forgot what you were actually talking about and then decided in your rage to prove yourself wrong..
and now you're going after nightmare cause he stepped on your toes after you stomped on his..
cheers.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:12:00 -
[48]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 22:13:12
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
b) hybrids do way more dmg than lasers, when ignoring resists and dmg types and especially when factoring them in to find the actual dmg inflicted..
Actually lasers do a lot more dmg in optimal than blasters do (MF vs antimatter or scorch vs null)...a lot more you just are not smart enough to do the math.
why do all your graphs show that hybrids do more damage?
even when you did the megathron ion 2 dmg mods vs abaddon megapulse 2 dmg mods or the hyperion with 2 dmg mods vs an abaddon with 3 dmg mods.. it didn't matter .. the megathron and the hyperion still f'ing beat it in dps
it's priceless..
also.. speaking of math.. i'd love to see you do 200 dps using scorch at a target that's 75km away.. when your optimal with scorch is 45km..
apparently amarr according to your graph are absolutely awesome in falloff.. even more so than minmatarr.. who would've thunk it.. totally contrary to the ingame experiences.. but you're probably right.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:17:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 22:13:12
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
b) hybrids do way more dmg than lasers, when ignoring resists and dmg types and especially when factoring them in to find the actual dmg inflicted..
Actually lasers do a lot more dmg in optimal than blasters do (MF vs antimatter or scorch vs null)...a lot more you just are not smart enough to do the math.
why do all your graphs show that hybrids do more damage?
They do not show that you just cannot read them properly.
i see hybrids doing most damage on all of them..
and i see you trying to fudge the numbers by comparing hypes and megathrons with 2 dmg mods.. to abaddons and geddons with 3 dmg mods and even then they still fail to do more dmg at optimal than the aforementioned.
how do you explain that? |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:22:00 -
[50]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 22:24:37
linkage
this shows hype with 2 dmg mods beating an armageddon with 3 dmg mods..
it also shows a hype with null charges hitting out to 40-50km.. wtf?
it's gotta be because the drone damage is factored in..
hey that graph utill.. is it in beta by any chance?
|
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 22:31:46
Originally by: 7shining7one7
this shows hype with 2 dmg mods beating an armageddon with 3 dmg mods..
No its does not show the hype beating it, not even close, the geddon is owning the dmg amount in optimal.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
it also shows a hype with null charges hitting out to 40-50km.. wtf?
it's gotta be because the drone damage is factored in..
Its not hitting at 40-50km with null then is it...., These were realistic fits on properly fitted and tanked ships including drones.
oh i get it, you're looking at it upside down.. that's why the teal scorch abaddon does most dmg in your eyes..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:40:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: NightmareX
Murina, i forgot to tell you that i'm proud of your signature. Because it shows the true image of you.
It actually showed me just how far you are willing to go and how much obviously deluded rubbish you are willing to support...Do you honestly think supporting ignorant and utterly wrong comments like that is a good idea?.....
Its your rep dude, and if their one thing i know its that the truth trumps troll every time....
You failed.
NO U..
seriously dude.. the amount of rubbish, ad hominems and contradictions you've made in this thread alone brings you quite close to the troll hall of fame..
if anything you are the last person that should be talking about rep right now...
you're so far out that you are denying your own graphs just cause they don't consist with what you are now saying.. and cause you're tired of contradicting yourself..
and then you assault some random dude trying to give him a bad rep for calling you an idiot after you've stomped on his feet quite extensively..
that's awesome.. 
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:44:00 -
[53]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 22:44:47
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: 7shining7one7
lol?
Please stop posting. Please.
look at that..
that's how much sense you just made.
you got a troll saying that megapulse in optimal beats blasters in optimal and he's using that to say that amarr are overpowered and you're telling me to shut up?
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
you're so far out that you are denying your own graphs just cause they don't consist with what you are now saying..
I am denying nothing, you just need to learn the basics.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and then you assault some random dude trying to give him a bad rep for calling you an idiot..
Insults get responded to by insults, and he chose to back your silly "approaching inside optimal reduces laser dmg" idea when he, i and everybody but you knows how absurdly wrong it is.
what about when you say megapulse has more dps than blasters when they are both at optimal..
and how about when you said that it's easier to track once the target gets closer..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:52:00 -
[55]
cause he's gone over to personal attacks since he realized that amarr wasn't overpowered dps wise but simply has more range which causes them to do less dps but more damage over time due to them just switching crystals to stay in optimal rather than having to move around like gallente has to..
unless gallente moves and gets within optimal in which case the tables turn..
the thread is over.. he's just going through the death cramps and throwing sjit at ppl..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:57:00 -
[56]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 22:57:23
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
ignorant troll
Go away even nightmare knows you optimal idea was stupid and ignorant.
then why don't you flame me instead of nightmare.. ? he's got sjit to do with what i said.. trying to give him a bad rep or whatever.. what are you.. 5?
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 23:02:00 -
[57]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 23:03:17
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Murina
It is summat you supported pal.
So only because i support 7shining7one7 in what he's saying, you have to have that in your sig?.
You have 30 mins to remove your sig or get reported.
I will remove it instantly if you use you amazing game knowledge to tell us if its accurate or not?, after all we are here for the truth are we not?.
Il give you the geddon fit if you do, and all im asking for is honesty, hardly summat you should be afraid of..
why don't you give us some truth and admit that this whole amarr is overpowered rant had diddly to do with dps and everything to do with amarr having more range on pulse than gallente has on blasters.. which means that gallente can do more dmg but has to move around more and keep the target more stationary in to do it..
and why do you then not also concede that amarr has a lot of fitting and cap issues to contend with, that seems to balance this out.. not to mention lack of dronage..
when has blaster megathron been useless.. it hasn't.. it's only since amarr has become more viable due to the speed nerf that you start to complain.. i bet you didn't complain all the time that the blasterhrons were owning anything that moved..
double standards are awesome aren't they..
oh and why is it your main is banned from posting?
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 23:11:00 -
[58]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 23:12:42
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/02/2009 23:03:46
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: NightmareX
Time is ticking.
Tell you what il change it, ccp cannot have a problem with accurate quoting................or the truth unlike you it seems...
They will remove it when it's about insutling players for something that haven't been said.
yeah, i was the one who said that, in hindsight it probably has more to do with the tracking than a dual issue of tracking and the laser properties..
but in my experience with rails, when a target gets closer and gets below optimal you do less damage on it because the optimal is so far out and because of the tracking and transversal more than anything else..
and with beams it seems same thing..
and with pulse and blasters.. well that's different cause when they get closer they go towards optimal rather than away from optimal and then you actually start to hit better as they get closer to you because the optimal is so close to 0km..
except in the case of scorch where they when they get closer go well below optimal so that's probably due to tracking and how that relates to the distance from the optimal to 0km..
at any rate i was the one who said that.. nightmare has diddly to do with that..
i've been right about most things i've said in this thread.. which is the parts he's referring to..
at any rate.. if you want to flame someone for saying something.. then flame the person saying it rather than someone else..
you're being a f'ing idiot and you know it. right is right.. and fair is fair also.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 23:18:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 07/02/2009 23:12:08
Ok, it seems the silly trolls have gone so lets continue.
The graphs clearly show that with such huge optimal and high dmg as well as the fact that with the available target selection BS have the reduced tracking on BS lasers is not significant enough to be a real limiting factor.
This makes them considerably overpowered compared to blasters or AC and as such adjustments are required to one or all 3 of the systems.
isn't the adjustment just that you fit rails with antimatter or move around a bit more and get within optimal with blasters?
i mean you can't just expect gallente to rival amarr in mid range just cause you want to sit still and pop them 40km out with blasters..
sure ccp could make blasters just like megapulse but how sad would that be.. it'd just be removing one fun way of doing combat and replacing it with more of the same..
so what if it's not viable right now.. or a bit harder to achieve with the speed and web nerf..
it's still fun when you get within optimal and do insane amounts of damage..
you can warp in straight on top of them or whatever..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 23:22:00 -
[60]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 07/02/2009 23:26:15
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
yeah, i was the one who said that, in hindsight it probably has more to do with the tracking than a dual issue of tracking and the laser properties..
Simple honesty apparently beyond nightmare...
Now we can begin if you wish, wanna know the geddon setup?, or how i can easily show laser out damaging blasters in their respective optimals?..
well i don't get how you can say that pulse outdamage blasters cause they don't.. blasters do FAR more damage.. and have a more heavy hitting damage type overall..
what i do get is that you are saying that pulse do overall more damage due to scorch making them similar to beams to some degrees and which allows them to do more damage over time because they can just switch crystals and stay within optimal, whereas gallentean blasterboats have to move around..
but amarr doesn't do more dps within optimal.. they do more damage over time because they can switch to optimal quite easily.. but then they have cap and fitting issues and lack of mobility due to viable fits.. and less midslots.. and they also have very little dronage except the geddon.. so they rely on scorch and the instant optimal switch to sit protected outside the range of blasterboats so they don't get their golden armor torn apart..
not all crystals however do same amount of damage.. when you switch the optimals some do far far less.. and i don't find that you can just use scorch all the way down to 15km.. and just use scorch and multifreq regardless of the transversal or range of the enemy and still do the same dps..
also get the f off nightmare's back.. if someone's acting stupid right now it's you.. IMO |
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 23:31:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
i mean you can't just expect gallente to rival amarr in mid range just cause you want to sit still and pop them 40km out with blasters..
I want and have suggested no such thing on any forum anywhere.
You have inferred that from your paranoia but you could not be further from the truth as i would oppose totally blasters hitting over 30km let alone out to 40.
so instead you would have scorch stripped from the amarrian crystal range.. and reduce the dps from moderate to **** poor and having ppl switch crystals non stop and forced to fit mwd's and cause a furthering of the fitting nightmare that is flying amarr..
? so that amarr would have to engage gallenteans within blaster range..
wow.. yeah that's totally fair cause it'll be so damn even that it's hard to declare a winner isn't it..
right now you are fighting within amarr's optimal.. and outside your own.. unless you mwd to the ship or switch to rails and go tank + less damage.. (which is exactly the type of fits that amarrians have)..
and you want amarr's midrange to be stripped so that gallente can more easily get within optimal and pwn them since amarr now has to engage gallente at shorter ranges..
nah.. that's a bad idea imo.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 23:54:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
well i don't get how you can say that pulse outdamage blasters cause they don't.. blasters do FAR more damage..
I can see how you would think that cos of the spikes of dmg but follow the math
Faction AM vs faction MF first ok?.
Faction AM hit for 1500 for 4.5km, 1500 x 4.5km = 6750 dmg
Faction MF hit for 1200 for 15km, 1200 x 15km = 17880 dmg
Null hits for 1256 for 11km, 1256 x 11km = 13816 dmg
Scorch hits for 959 for 45km, 959 x 11km = 43155 dmg
Now Blasters may have the spike of dmg greater than lasers at 4.5km, but that is it while lasers do very high amounts of dmg in close but also vast amounts of dmg out to 45km all in optimal.
And dmg spikes within a tiny optimal is not worth squat when your facing such overwhelming optimal firepower.
but you're also forgetting the drones.. megathron can field 5 heavy drones..
well it's two different combat styles.. amarrians don't zip around as much as megathrons and hyperions have to.. if they want to use blasters..
one sacrifices high dps for range and more damage over time but less damage AT A TIME.. (amarr)
another sacrifices more damage over time for A LOT OF DAMAGE AT A TIME! (gallente)
amarr has severe cap and fitting issues that you can't just ignore when talking about this.. and they can't field heavies like gallente can..
gallente can use the drones as initial damage during their mwd'ing approach.. 5 ogre II's f'ing hurt.. and even more so when the neutron II's get within optimal..
hyperion doesn't need heavy drones it just deals sick dps regardless...
and the dominix.. well the dominix we know so well.. fearsome ship and those drones hurt like the ****ens with gal bs V.. and it can add to the dmg with rails or blasters.. very versatile too..
and what's amarr got.. ? great tank, more damage over time due to being able to dictate range more.. lower dps.. very little dronage.. fitting issues and cap issues.. and loss of mobility if they want to tank their way through it and keep their cap steady which they need to in order to do proper damage over time due to their lower dps spikes..
cmon dude, can't you see how silly this argument is.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 00:09:00 -
[63]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 00:15:01
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 00:10:11
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
gallente can use the drones as initial damage during their mwd'ing approach.. 5 ogre II's f'ing hurt
4 with your hype fit bud and ogres aint so fast tbh, 1000ms mwd base i think.
Anyway depending on the range, lets say 20km the hype has 4 ogres + falloff for 15.5km, 13km of that in standard overheated web range...
The baddon has 2 ogres 2 hammers 1 hob + optimal of scorch = 1000dps for 5km and 2km of 1200 dps and then 8km of standard webbed 1200dps to lay on the hype before it gets into the hypes optimal range.
dude the hype can't fit 4 ogres.. it can only fit 3.. it only has 75mb bandwith.. thus it's better to field hammer II's on it really. the full gank hype fit with 1514 dps was using 5x hammer II's.
and i don't see how the hype isn't going to close that distance instead of staying just outside it's optimal even if they both web eachother the hype can still get closer.. abaddon tends to be plated up the wazoo to compensate for repping cap, either that or it is filled to the brim with cap modules.. any way you cut it the abaddon is being cut a slim deal with regards to facing blaster boats unless it keeps the distance.. and it can only do that by mwd'ing around.. and cap doesn't last forever nor does it posess enough firepower to do that while wearing down a mwd'ing mega/hype/domi enough to make it go boom.. i know you think that 1000 dps is a whole lot but when you factor in the resists (em/therm).. it's not a whole bloody lot against gallentean boats.. eventhough it looks like dynamite on paper.
now if the hype/mega/domi sits still then it probably will melt if given enough time obviously... but who says it's going to.
also i added a little bit to my previous post i'd appreciate it if you read it again and re-edit your post to respond.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 00:21:00 -
[64]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 00:25:08
Originally by: Murina
Hype has 100, baddon has 75.
So 3 ogres 2 hammers are better.
**** that's right, my bad..
that means the hype goes from 1514 dps with that full gank fit
to a whooping 1609 dps.. unbelievable.. and all gallente bs's can fit heavies in a decent manner..
i know you have that 1000-1200 dps abaddon fit that you been talking about.. (never got to see it i think, sigh) but regardless.. i'm guessing you're really pushing the envelope with that much dps on an abaddon while still having 100k ehp..
but 1609 dps.. come on! that's amazing..
i know amarr can do more damage over time if the blasterboat won't mwd to them and if the abaddon runs away keeping the distance but cmon.. 1609 dps! |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 00:39:00 -
[65]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 00:45:21
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 00:36:16
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 00:35:34
Originally by: Goumindong
Megathron w/ railguns /w Aurora 300 dmg x 191km = 57,000
OMG its overpowered compared to both! Nerf Mega's with rails!
Rails fit spike moron.
And Beams with aurora 205 x 325 = 62525 and i didn't even try hard to boost the dmg.....
Originally by: Goumindong
Would you care explaining how ignoring tracking
NULL = OPTIMAL 11 FALLOFF 16, Tracking on a nuetron hyperion 0.04059
MF = OPTIMAL 15 FALL OFF 10, Tracking on mega pulse baddon 0.04219
yeah.. but you're also forgetting how the different crystals make you consume more cap, and how the scorch decreases your tracking by 25% and how each of them have very different damage.. and how you have to switch between them quite a few times.. thus your dps will end up varying a bit.. if you can stay outside of range of the blaster boats then you can melt them over time but it's not allways just as simple as scorch, and multifreq..
you neatly picked multifreq as example which is the only charge besides standard which doesn't really affect anything else than range.. that's a bad example imo, try it with scorch instead.. it is more like null..
then you'll see that when you use scorch, your tracking dips down to 0.03164 with max skills.. that changes things a little bit doesn't it? cause now the megapulse is all of a sudden a glorified beam laser..
hence my scepticism with your 15-45km scorch usage suggestion and how it was too easy or whatnot..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:04:00 -
[66]
well if you want to see what an abaddon can really do rather than maxing out damage and using implants to do so to a ridiculous degree so that it can push over 1000 dps but falls apart if something just looks at it..
then we gotta look at some more decent fits.. and first you gotta think of cap.. that's the wonderful world of amarr.. cause amarr ships use cap like nobodys business.. most of the crystals except mf standard and scorch causes the turret to use extra cap... which is a serious issue when you fly them..
secondly you gotta look at grid and cpu... you'll find when you loose those implants it's really tough to fit an abaddon properly..
then you ultimately realize that the high dps is just not happening and go for tank instead.. so you fit a couple plates and eanm dc II and skip the triple heatsink you so desired but know is gonna ultimately make you blow up due to lack of tank..
or you can go single rep single plate..
going dual rep on an abaddon is simply not an option, it's a cap hog beyond belief due to it not getting ship bonuses for it so..
what you'll end up with is a lot of cap mods and a lot of tank, and quite moderate dps.. if you are looking for a viable fit that is actually used..
now.. your whole running away from a hype.. if the hype fits a tracking disruptor you're in deep **** and you can forget your pipe dreams about mwd'ing away and scorching him to oblivion.. you'll have to either get within multifreq range, or settle for less dmg with xray or standard..
amarr ain't as wtfbbq as you think they are.. they really aren't.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:05:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 01:03:12
Originally by: 7shining7one7
you neatly picked multifreq as example which is the only charge besides standard which doesn't really affect anything else than range.. that's a bad example imo, try it with scorch instead.. it is more like null..
NULL = OPTIMAL 11 FALLOFF 16
MF = OPTIMAL 15 FALL OFF 10
Bud look at the ranges, you do not get much more alike than that, just cos scorch happens to be T2 like null does not make them more alike in effect.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
then you'll see that when you use scorch, your tracking dips down to 0.03164 with max skills..
Thats still a crap tonne better than a gank/tank rail hype, its range is 36km optimal 30km falloff and 0.01202 and that is with anitmatter with no tracking penalty.
well yeah, but then again.. when you factor in web and the immense dps it can dish out within antimatter range.. then that becomes less of an issue.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:11:00 -
[68]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 01:15:37
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
well yeah, but then again.. when you factor in web and the immense dps it can dish out within antimatter range.. then that becomes less of an issue..
The dps of anti matter on rails awful and we both have webs while you have over double the rails tracking...
also factor in a tracking disruptor II set on the baddon.. and you go from 0.03164 to 0.01582.. with scorch.. (if using a tracking speed script) or 22.5 optimal range with scorch if he's using optimal range disruption script..
that's f'ing nasty..
you do that you can fit blasters.. you don't need the rails.. he won't be able to hit you for **** unless he has beams.. he'll have to walk a fine line as he closes the gap and hope he keeps the distance without getting into webbing range.. and obviously the hype pilot will just mwd as fast as he can and float straight into null optimal or maybe even as far as antimatter optimal..
it's really not that hard to mess with an abaddon.. he's got enough to contend with, with only moderate dps, cap issues and lack of mobility.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:21:00 -
[69]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 01:21:27
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 01:14:56
Originally by: 7shining7one7
well yeah, but then again.. when you factor in web and the immense dps it can dish out within antimatter range.. then that becomes less of an issue..
The dps of anti matter on rails awful and we both have webs while you have over double the rails tracking...
Even pimped like you did the blaster setup it does less dps than my pulse/scorch fit and needs pg upgrades just to fit the giuns and t2 collision rig.....let alone a mwd or tank of any sort.
i wouldn't say that.. with all 5 hardwirings and 4 heavies it ended up doing 1609dps with 20k armor and 90k ehp.. that's not too shabby..
if it fits a tracking disruptor and a web and let someone else do the pointing you can't dish out damage till it can hurt you back. which means you'd be entering a world of pain pretty quickly.
anywho.. let's take a more reasonable 1100 dps hype then.. with a tracking disruptor, mwd, web, dual rep and dual cap injectors.. it'll still smoke you cause of that tracking disruptor.. just 1 tracking disruptor will render scorch completely useless.. either by reducing its tracking to tachyon class or by reducing it's optimal to 22.5km.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:25:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 01:21:17
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 01:20:17
Originally by: Murina
The dps of anti matter on rails awful and we both have webs while you have over double the rails tracking...
Even pimped like you did the blaster setup it does less dps than my pulse/scorch fit and needs pg upgrades just to fit the guns and t2 collision rig.....let alone a mwd or tank of any sort.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
also factor in a tracking disruptor II set on the baddon.. and you go from 0.03164 to 0.01582.. with scorch.. (if using a tracking speed script) or 22.5 optimal range with scorch if he's using optimal range disruption script..
that's f'ing nasty..
it's really not that hard to mess with an abaddon.. he's got enough to contend with, with only moderate dps, cap issues and lack of mobility..
Dude you start with more tracking so a TD on the rail hype is gonna hurt the hype more, and even with the TD on your pulse ship you have almost the same tracking as the rail hype that does not have a TD on it and is using non penalized ammo...
well we're talking blaster setup, so the tracking disruptor is for the approach while you're mwd'ing you're denying the abaddon from dealing you damage unless it wants to meet you half way.. forget about the rail you don't need it then. |
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:55:00 -
[71]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 01:56:30
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 01:32:22
Originally by: 7shining7one7
well we're talking blaster setup, so the tracking disruptor is for the approach while you're mwd'ing you're denying the abaddon from dealing you damage unless it wants to meet you half way.. forget about the rail you don't need it then.
So now the abaddon needs to be TD'd on your approach to keep the dmg down?. Are we in a smallish ship (BCish) that can take advantage of the TD cos a BS will take ages to get close if its keeping its transversal high instead of just burning?.
what's the matter with just burning and reducing the optimal rendering scorch pretty useless till you get there..
i guess the point is amarr is far from overpowered.. if range seems to be your main issue then negate it.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 02:19:00 -
[72]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 02:19:42
well.. not much needs saying after that
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 04:10:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Arcelian
Who posted saying crystals affect tracking? I know I read that somewhere.
And lasers pwn you infidels, get used to it. har har.
scorch has a 0.75x tracking multiplier. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 10:55:00 -
[74]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 10:55:56
[Abaddon, Golden Castle]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
ECCM - Radar II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
dps 442 without drones.
dps 652 with drones.
ehp 106k, 82.7%, 77.5%, 74%, 72.3%
52km scorch range with optimal script.
cap stable at 52%.. removing any cap module will make the abaddon loose its cap stability.
as you can clearly tell... active tanking with just 1 frigging repper whilst attempting to fit anything but cap mods in the mids, ruins the abaddons cap to such a degree that you need 4 cap mods and 3 cap rigs just to make it cap stable..
so what are the abaddons options..
plate itself up the wazoo.. yielding great tankage but similarly poor dps but allowing more versatility in the midslots
or.. going gank with a moderate tank and cap for as long as it has cap boosters (you can't make the gank fit cap stable without cap boosters) and that severely limits its mid slot options..
or.. going with "full gank" (really not feasible on an abaddon tbqh) and reaching 1000/1200 dps but ending up a paper tiger in the process since it tank will crumble so darn easily..
thus a feasible abaddon fit will end up around 6-800 dps.. which is not a whole lot..
take it as you will.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 11:44:00 -
[75]
it was to illustrate the immense cap issues on an abaddon, which rules out active repping unless you want to fit cap mods all over the place..
sure you can go full plate (as i suggested above as the most viable option for an abaddon) and throw on a heavy cap booster and then pretend like you have infinite charges and that it's fine and not going to matter how horrible the abaddons cap management is..
but when you fly it, it might not be that simple.
let's see how many charges you can have in your can in the cargohold and then figure out the maximum amount of cap you can suck out of it, cause when you run out, you will be absolutely dead in the water..
it's allways easy to make a gank fit and then just throw on 1 or maybe 2 cap boosters to make it all look like it all plays nicely and that there's no issues.. and then say omg.. dps etc..
that's exactly what i did with the 1609 dps hyperion.. oh wait.. it was actually cap stable without cap boosters.. but that's fair right
cause i mean amarr dps n fittings are clearly so uber that they can will their way through their cap issues if you just fit enough gank so that the dps looks awesome.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:00:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
it was to illustrate the immense cap issues on an abaddon, which rules out active repping unless you want to fit cap mods all over the place..
So you cannot for a local rep unless you have lots of cap mods or a booster, well that applies to gallente as well but although not quite as much.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
that's exactly what i did with the 1609 dps hyperion.. oh wait.. it was actually cap stable without cap boosters.. but that's fair right
It was cap stable without the mwd running but so was my abaddon, with the mwd running you had 3 minutes of cap while i had over 4 on the abaddon.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
let's see how many charges you can have in your can in the cargohold and then figure out the maximum amount of cap you can suck out of it, cause when you run out, you will be absolutely dead in the water..
It was a very very long time without the mwd running and with the mwd running my cap lasted longer than your Hyperion's did bud. Mostly cos you fitted the hype poorly and for sheer dps while ignoring practicalities.
actually.. while it only had 3 minutes of mwd time.. it only used passive cap rechargers.. no cap boosters involved.. (you can't say the same for your fit) it also had 90k ehp..
and when it turned off the mwd it was completely cap stable..
and its dps was 1609.. whereas the abaddons was what again.. oh yeah.. 1000/1200 dps (scorch/multifreq) in a crammed fit using heavy cap booster to run it.
but let's focus on the amarr ships since that seems to be more what you want to talk about, so go ahead and address the post above..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:01:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
emo rage
Grow up.
hah!
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:18:00 -
[78]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 12:26:38
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
actually.. while it only had 3 minutes of mwd time.. it only used passive cap rechargers.. no cap boosters involved.. (you can't say the same for your fit) it also had 90k ehp..
and when it turned off the mwd it was completely cap stable..
and its dps was 1609.. whereas the abaddons was what again.. oh yeah.. 1000/1200 dps (scorch/multifreq) in a crammed fit using heavy cap booster to run it.
The abaddon had 115,295 ehp, was cap stable without the mwd running, over 4 mins with the mwd running had a web and point and did 1200dps out to 0-15km and 1000dps out to 0 or 15 if you use MF upto 15(and you should) -45km.
The hype was also cap stable with no mwd running, had only 3mins of cap with the mwd running, only 90k ehp, no point fitted and its 1609 dps was at 2 - 4.5km.
i don't know where you get that 2km from.. it's 4.5km with 13km falloff (with caldari/gallente navy antimatter)
and indeed it can fit mwd and web and still be cap stable.. and if it fits point on top of that, its cap lasts 54 minutes without mwd on.. pretty decent for not using cap boosters.. and having 90k ehp and 1609 dps..
point is both fits were squeezing everything they could out of both ships.. and 1609 vs 1000 is no comparison.. especially when the 1000 dps is em/therm
and not all of it is even fully lasers but includes the drones which (unless you're an idiot) makes the actual inflicted damage much much less, and the 1609 is kin/therm.. you remove the drones from yours and you get what.. 800 dps? and you're squeezing everything you can out of the abaddon.. and i remove drones and i get what.. 1400 dps..
and don't give me that 1200 bs.. for you to be able to dish that out you'd have to be within 15-20km, and that's pretty much within web range.. 1000 dps is what you are going to dish out..
gl with that when the hype can fly 200ms faster than you with the fit you presented plus you accellerate much much slower. which means the webbing strategy will not work at all.. the hype will close the gap and be halfway through murdering you before you can say bob's your uncle.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:31:00 -
[79]
also i want to bring up again that.. the hype can field 4 heavy drones.
and that the dominix can field 5 heavy drones and has nos/neut versatility on top of that.
and that the megathron can field 5 heavy drones + blasters..
and you're complaining that the amarrians have extended pulse range with scorch to compensate for their drone, cap and fitting deficiencies, poor damage type, and lack of fits yielding proper dps but instead more damage over time if the target stays at mid range.. give me a break.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:33:00 -
[80]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 12:35:59
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
i don't know where you get that 2km from.. it's 4.5km with 13km falloff (with caldari/gallente navy antimatter)
Falloff reduces damage drastically bud, down to around 38% of the original dmg i believe
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and don't give me that 1200 bs.. for you to be able to dish that out you'd have to be within 15-20km, and that's pretty much within web range..
Both ships had domi webs fitted...so the benefit is gone in fact it suits the baddon more...cos my favorite fit only had one plate and higher resists....
the hype went 200ms faster and also only had 1 plate fitted.. do the math when you get within web range and try to web it in order to use multifrequency on it, you will slow down more than the hype will when you get webbed by it. and when it's allready going 200ms faster than you at base, the web will make the speed differential even greater, and it'll get within antimatter optimal within 20 seconds.
and when it does, your resists are little match for 1609 dps.. if you think you can tank that with 1 plate and no slaves, you must be out of your fracking mind.
|
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:37:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Jessica Fyers
I'm sorry, but been following this thread since page 1, and cant help but wonder - with my carebear logic:
Since when is cap stability a desired attribute of pvp ships?
I've always thought that its a question of get the other guy in his pod and beyond asap, dont mess around with cap stability if it lasts long enough to kill the other one!
if you get neuted you're dead in the water.
and it's not allways just 1 guy either..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:40:00 -
[82]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 12:41:20
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and that the dominix can field 5 heavy drones and has nos/neut versatility on top of that.
Domi drone dps, max skills ogre2's = 467dps not including travel time (ogre 2 max mwd speed = 1008ms).....
i'm thinking you're forgetting about the drone modules.. one increases range.. another increases mwd speed
also domi has high slots free for a lot of stuff.. it's an amazing ship..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:42:00 -
[83]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 12:43:40
Originally by: Takeshi Yamato
Edited by: Takeshi Yamato on 08/02/2009 12:41:27
Damage reduction against a 2x EANM+DC armor tanked target:
EM damage is reduced to 25.6%
Thermal damage is reduced to 33.2%
Kinetic is reduced to 38.3%
Geddon with 2x HS 7x Megapulse II 5x Ogre II using Navy Multifrequency:
Dps before resists: 1077 (633 thermal, 433 em)
Dps after resists: 320 (210 thermal, 110 em)
Megathron with 2x MS, 7x Neutron II 5x Ogre II using Navy AM:
Dps before resists: 1148 (663 thermal, 485 kinetic)
Dps after resists: 406 (220 thermal, 186 kinetic)
A 6% dps advantage turns into a 26% dps advantage due to unfavorable resists. Just to illustrate how important it is to include them in any comparison.
exactly.
also i gotta say..
for all the debates we've had in this thread.. i've yet to understand how someone can claim amarr superior.. it seems it's been shown quite extensively how that's not entirely accurate.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:50:00 -
[84]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 12:52:38
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 12:51:00
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and when it's allready going 200ms faster than you at base, the web will make the speed differential even greater, and it'll get within antimatter optimal within 20 seconds.
200m/s pre web difference - 60% web = 80m/s difference...
Do you know how long it will take you to travel the 15km to your optimal at 80ms?....
3 minutes 7 seconds nublet
you're forgetting about momentum, it doesn't just dip down to 80ms right away.. and if i fitted a tracking disruptor instead of a point then.. clearly you could run away but you would be no threat whatsoever till i got very close to webbing range.. thus the fight would start completely on my terms.. and even if you overload the web and web me at 18km out, i'd still glide in to around 9km.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 12:57:00 -
[85]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 12:59:59
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 12:53:24
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and when it's allready going 200ms faster than you at base, the web will make the speed differential even greater, and it'll get within antimatter optimal within 20 seconds.
200m/s pre web difference - 60% web = 80m/s difference...
Do you know how long it will take you to travel the 15km to your optimal at 80ms?....
3 minutes 7 seconds nublet
you're forgetting about momentum, it doesn't just dip down to 80ms right away..
Cos only gallente ships have momentum?.
The momentum is equal and if its not it will marginally favor the heavier ship...
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and if i fitted a tracking disruptor instead of a point then.. clearly you could run away but you would be no threat whatsoever till i got very close to webbing range..
If your approaching the transversal will be very low so TD not such a problem, but hey if you need to fit ewar just so you can get a draw against the abaddon it must be even more powerful than i thought...
ofcourse not.. but since you are going 200ms slower at base.. you'd have less of it. and as i said if i fit a tracking disruptor with optimal range script you can forget about using scorch till i get within webbing range.. thus the battle starts on my terms rather than yours..
and how long do you think it'll take me to get from 22.5km to 18km when i'm going 200ms faster than you?
can't see how it's unfair that scorch goes out to 45km when you can set it close to webbing range by just using a single tracking disruptor.. thus negating any dps on the way in while loading up the blasters..
hello pretties.. you're entering a world of hurt.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:05:00 -
[86]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 13:06:12
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 13:01:47
Originally by: 7shining7one7
ofcourse not.. but since you are going 200ms slower at base.. you'd have less of it. and as i said if i fit a tracking disruptor with optimal range script you can forget about using scorch till i get within webbing range.. thus the battle starts on my terms rather than yours..
So i hit you with scorch for 1000 dps for the 3 mins 7 secs it takes you to get into your optimal 4.5km uber dps range.
Still refitting your ship with ewar just to get a draw are you......man oh man the baddon must be bad ass..
no actually it's not a draw
the hype has 5 mid slots.. adding 1 tracking disruptor with optimal script means you can't hit me with 1000 dps scorch untill i reach 22.5km.. not to mention how your multifreqency will be crippled.. at which point you can either run and live to fight another day before i reach 18km or stay, get webbed and die..
there goes your midrange advantage..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:28:00 -
[87]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 13:34:35
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 13:33:44
Originally by: Murina
This t2 only geddon fit seems interesting what do you think it can be inproved with basic implants:
7 x pulse
1 x mwd
1 x cap booster
1 cap recharger
3 x heat sinks
1 x dcu
2 x eanm
2 x 1600 plates
1 x pg rig
2 x trimarks
5 x orges
101,806 ehp
1027dps at 0-15km
858dps at 0-45km
752m/s top speed
11mins 41 seconds of cap with the mwd running, cap stable without mwd running.
basic 3% cpu implant needed but they are cheap as chips, no other implants were used...
well as you are beginning to realize.. active tanking on amarr boats is a tough job while doing much damage and having no cap issues.. whereas gallente for instance... can do that quite nicely indeed..
that means when amarr's buffer runs out, they're toast.. whereas.. gallente can recoup..
even a SINGLE repper on an amarrian ship can mean a fitting and cap nightmare..
and even with the buffer gank fits.. they still don't do much damage compared to blasterboats..
the damage inflicted is much less due to their damage type.. they can't field heavy drones properly to mix up the dmg types.. and the short supply of midslots means fitting tackle or speed takes some serious consideration, which often ends up in sacrificing mobility for damage, tank range and/or tracking.
Their midrange advantage is removed if you fit a single tracking disruptor II.. also many fits are highly succeptible to being neuted..
I mean i'm all for being fair.. but i don't really see how amarr are overpowered.. i really don't.. and before the speed, web and resist nerf they were even worse.. atleast now they are fun to fly..
previously they got shafted 24/7.. especially by gallentean blaster and drone boats.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:47:00 -
[88]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 13:55:57
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
well as you are beginning to realize.. active tanking on amarr boats is a tough job while doing much damage and having no cap issues.. whereas gallente for instance... can do that quite nicely indeed..
I fly on TQ not sissi so active tanking BS is pointless, and any gang can carry RR or just a few rep drones for running repairs in between fights.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
also many fits are highly succeptible to being neuted..
Both gallente and amarrs guns are susceptible to being nueted, at least my setups have boosters to overcome it you just fit cap chargers ffs lol.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
i mean i'm all for being fair.. but i don't really see how amarr are overpowered.. i really don't..
Thats because you do not know how to fit your ships or understand their strengths properly.
Think about it, you have gone fron claiming that approaching or moving away from certain systems reduces dmg inside optimal due to beam fragmentation or whatever, to needing to switch your fit to include a tracking comp and even with it you lose the fight.
Sorry bud but your game knowledge does not seem to cover even knowing the systems/ships/abilities, how they work and available scenarios on TQ, and certainly not knowing how balanced they are compared to each other.
get your facts right.. i said you get reduced dmg within optimal mostly because of tracking issues.. you however was the one who said that tracking gets easier when the target got closer, and that you could do 1000 dps with scorch all the way from 45km down to 15km without having any need to switch crystals.. which you subsequently retracted as i pointed it out..
secondly the fit was made to illustrate how much dps the hype could put out which outdid your similarly juiced up abaddon fit by 600 dps excluding damage types..
and while your fit could make your run everything for 5 minutes it was ultimately not cap stable..
thirdly i didn't fit tracking computer.. i fit a tracking disruptor you buffoon.. it's quite different.. and the hype wouldn't loose the battle, only your subjective math says it will.. and your only strategy to combat the hype with your juiced up abaddon is to run like a little girl whilst attempting to deal damage.. and even at that, just 1 tracking disruptor allows the range to be dictated in the blasterboats favour, allowing it to take no damage whatsoever untill it could start dishing out some with null and heavy drones, which are not affected by falloff and will hit you quite nicely..
and even when the battle got the point where you could do damage.. the inflicted damage was still not even enough to bring down the hyperion glass cannon fast enough.. which is quite hilarious in itself considering how you proclaim amarr to be overpowered whilst fighting in a juiced up abaddon against a glass cannon fit..
fourthly.. i'd love to see how you are going to include medium logistics drones and remote rep on that fit of yours.. look at your cap and your pg.. and your dps..
and i'd also love to see how your cap can afford trying to neut me.. and how your dps and overall fit will suffer if you attempt to fit heavy neuts in them highs..
also you're being a f'ing ass again.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:01:00 -
[89]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 14:05:18
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
secondly the fit was made to illustrate how much dps the hype could put out which outdid your similarly juiced up abaddon fit by 600 dps excluding damage types..
1200 vs 1600 = 400 pal, and 0-15km at 1200 > 0-4.5km at 1600
Originally by: 7shining7one7
thirdly i didn't fit tracking computer..
I never said you did, i made a typo figure it out ffs..
Originally by: 7shining7one7
fourthly.. i'd love to see how you are going to include medium logistics drones and remote rep on that fit of yours.. look at your cap and your pg.. and your dps..
Considering you cannot remote rep yourself or use drones on yourself to it wont have them fitted will it ffs...
i know you can't remote rep yourself.. but you were the one talking about remote rep and logistics and piece of cake in gangs etc..
it's not 1200 dps with that juiced setup.. it will never be 1200 dps because you won't get to use that multifrequency anytime soon.. you will start dealing 1000 dps when i reach around 22.5km due to your optimal being disrupted by the tracking disruptor with optimal script thus dictating the combat range in the blasterboats favour.. and your multifrequency will be so f'ing impaired that when you are able to use it it'll be within feasible damage range of the navy antimatter..
why don't you just simply admit that amarr is not overpowered and move on?
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:18:00 -
[90]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 14:24:41
it's pointless to debate you when you are lying your ass off..
also you've shown nothing that indicates that amarr is overpowered
cheers.
edit: the above setup that you threw together assumes that you have room for infinite 800 cap boosters.. do the cargo hold and effective cap calculation. and this is the kind of nonsense you have been doing throughout the entire f'ing thread.. it's pretty easy to make a ostensibly cap efficient dual rep gank setup when it's based on you having infinite cap boosters..
furthermore the fit is also dependent on 5 x 100m hardwirings and still only yields moderate damage inflicted.
i'm done.. you go ahead and continue your rant.
|
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:30:00 -
[91]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 14:36:25
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
edit: the above setup that you threw together assumes that you have room for infinite 800 cap boosters.. do the cargo hold and effective cap calculation.
Wrong yet again, it has a cargo of 800's or it would not have a time limit of 3ish mins for both reppers....
See what i mean about groundless ideas and comments.
uh yes it would.. the 3 minutes is because that's how much dual rep drains your cap.. the cap boosters can't recoup it fast enough.. EFT doesn't factor in cargo space, it only factors in how much juice you get per reload not how many boosters you have.. it assumes infinite which is why it's imperative that you do the actual cap available calculation on your own when you use cap boosters as primary cap.
that's how you can get 100% cap stability with a single cap booster whilst firing your guns.. which over time is impossible without several cap regen mods.. one ought to think that would be logical that you can't have 100% cap regen 24/7 just cause you got a cap booster fitted.. but no.. apparently not for muria..
your fitting is utter fail, and now i'm really done. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 15:09:00 -
[92]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 15:14:26
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 14:56:18
Originally by: 7shining7one7
uh yes it would.. the 3 minutes is because that's how much dual rep drains your cap.. the cap boosters can't recoup it fast enough.. EFT doesn't factor in cargo space, it only factors in how much juice you get per reload not how many boosters you have.. it assumes infinite which is why it's imperative that you do the actual cap available calculation on your own when you use cap boosters as primary cap.
Dude the cap is infinite in this setup cos this is a low sec pirate active tank setup, you will have a station/can in system ect that you can reload from every time you use any boosters ffs, 3 mins is just a guide if you need to reload from the can.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and now i'm really done.
Thank god, i did not realize that arguing realities and actual in game scenarios with a eft tard who thinks laser beams in eve are real and disperse as you approach them would be so difficult and if i had i would not have bothered.
You have no idea about realistic scenarios and availability ffs.
look at you contradicting yourself.. first you say EFT accounts for limit in cargohold for cap boosters and call me an idiot..
then i point out that EFT assumes unlimited cap boosters and that all your fits are fail because of it, since what you think is cap stable is far from it.. which is also why you fail to realize how balanced amarr is..
and then you bloody well go and say i'm right (thus contradicting yourself) but excuse it with that it's really infinite cap cause you have a can nearby.. wtf..
so now all your fits are based on having a can nearby to fill up on cap boosters.. i suppose you also have cans lined up as you are running like a little sissy girl from the hyperion in your "cap stable and overpowered" abaddon..
how big of a trolling idiot are you anyways to say preposterous nonsense and making assumptions like that and then still say amarr is overpowered when all your fits which doesn't even get close to surpassing gallente in dps or inflicted damage.. are dependent on having a can nearby filled with cap boosters!...
also the 3 minutes is not just a guide.. it's how long till your cap reaches 0.. from there on.. if you fill up boosters and continue again with everything on, your cap will keep going from low cap to 0.. because the cap math says that you can't recoup from it.. you got less regen than you got usage.. that's why the 3 minutes..
you fail, you have no clue what you're talking about, you don't even understand EFT.. you make up idiotic fits that rely on having a can nearby filled with cap boosters and you expect us to listen to you when you say amarr is overpowered after putting us through that nonsense?..
friendly advice: get a f'ing clue before you fit/fly any amarrian ship into battle.. or atleast get someone to film it when you blow up in your "overpowered ship".. go make a video about how amarr is overpowered... i'll be sure to give it 5 stars for entertainment value..
i never realized a pvp'er as experienced at you could be such a f'ing EFT fail warrior.. but i guess there's a first for everything ain't there
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:09:00 -
[93]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 16:15:50
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 15:32:13
Nuetron mega fit:
7 neutron blasters
4 cap rechargers
2 mag stabs
2 eanm
1 repper
2 1600 plates
3 trimarks
90,000 ehp
962dps from 0-11km
Cap stable with no repper running 7 minutes with.
So a lot less ehp, less range and marginally more dps than the simular baddon fit.
[Megathron, Blasterthron Hunter fit]
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Domination 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Domination Stasis Webifier
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]
Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I
Ancillary Current Router I
Ancillary Current Router I
Ogre II x5
dps: 1305
ehp: 62k
cap: dual cap booster II's
speed: 960ms
hardwirings: none
350 dps more than your fit.. can withstand neut, weaker tank but more speed and agility to reach target in order to do any actual damage, like it's supposed to if it's hunting. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:20:00 -
[94]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 16:26:05
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
dps: 1305
ehp: 62k
cap: dual cap booster II's
speed: 960ms
hardwirings: none
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Domination 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Domination Stasis Webifier
Hardly a T2 fit like mine was pally....
are you sure your abaddon was aswell.. post it, as in not just the watered down version.. but copy to clipboard with full specs.
besides who the f uses t2 only?
furthermore.. your fit didn't even have mwd or web on yours.. get real. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:35:00 -
[95]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 16:37:24
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
besides who the f uses t2 only?
PPl who play on tq not eft or sissi...
you must be f'ing skint then if you can't afford 200m worth of npc faction gear for a decent fit..
also things to consider...
your abaddon fit has.. 0 mobility, 749 EM/THERMAL dps which is neutralized to 1/3rd of the dps if a gallente boat fits 2x eanms and a dcII.. (70% resists, actually the fit i just posted has 76.9% em and 70% therm...)..
also your drones travel time needs to be factored in.. also if they are webbed and killed.. (domi web.. sick ogres on it) bye bye..
so that leaves your actual damage much to be wanted..
furthermore.. if a blasterboat gets within range of multifreq i'd really suggest it you warp the f out tbqh..
cause you ain't gonna do much else than sit and die.. and you only got 3 minutes of cap whilst repping and firing..
hows it like being amarr again?
your gallente blasterthron attempt that you used for comparison was absolutely ridiculous, you didn't even have mwd on it ffs.. but you go ahead and keep using t2 then.. no wonder you fail so bad if that's a megathron fit you suggest in earnest. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:42:00 -
[96]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 16:44:40
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
your gallente blasterthron attempt that you used for comparison was absolutely ridiculous, you didn't even have mwd on it ffs.. but you go ahead and keep using t2 then.. no wonder you fail so bad if that's a megathron fit you suggest in earnest.
You really have no concept of humor do you?.
no i don't, not when you come up with one stupid fit after another and use them to proclaim how amarr are superior..
you didn't go "lool look at dis stupid fit.." you went "look how it compares to the abaddon".. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 17:06:00 -
[97]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 17:09:58
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 16:56:54
Anyway a non faction T2 baddon fit...
highs
8 x mega pulse
mids
1 mwd
1 web
2 med cap booster (800s)
lows
3 x heat sinks
2 x eanm
1 x 1600 plate
1 x dcu
2 trimarks
1 dmg rig
usual drones
110,000 ehp 70% thermal kinetic resists on armour.
1079 dps at 0-15km
873 dps at 0-15-45km
654ms.
I notice you never post the dmg+0-optimal range in your uber dmg fits why is that?...
you got 2 minutes and 31 seconds of natural cap left with ONLY guns firing (if you turn off mwd and web), after you run out of cap booster 800's.. and you aren't even repping. also med cap boosters and 800's that's a lot of reloading right there.. i'm sure that'll work marvelous when you have only 2 minutes and 31 seconds of natural cap.. and is in the process of reloading the boosters..
and you got 3 minutes and 38 secs with everything on..
yet another fail fit... get a clue.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 17:16:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 17:12:40
Originally by: 7shining7one7
you got 2 minutes and 31 seconds of natural cap left with guns firing, after you run out of cap booster 800's.. and you aren't even repping. also med cap boosters and 800's that's a lot of reloading right there.. i'm sure that'll work marvelous when you have only 2 minutes and 31 seconds of natural cap.. and is in the process of reloading the boosters..
Here is the thing i hardly ever need to mwd on TQ and when i do its just burning out of bubbles or back to gates.......you always focus on what you wanna see and ignore the reality of combat...
You are such a paper tiger its pathetic tbh.
look, if you call that stable then my hyperion glass cannon with 1609 dps and 90k ehp is too.. hey.. incidently it also has 3 minutes with everything on.. and is cap stable otherwise..
point is.. if that's the kind of "evidence" you're gonna "submit" in order to "prove" that amarr is "overpowered" then i can't take it seriously.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 17:26:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
point is.. if that's the kind of "evidence"
How about a dose of reality?.
How about capping out due to perma running a mwd being a virtual non-existent occurrence on TQ?.
How about all your silly fits not needing to be cap stable with a mwd running cos you hardly ever use it on tq and when you do its for a very limited time?.
How about you crawling back to sissi with you pimped fits and your eft whines about cap and being quiet cos that is where they belong as the reality is that mwd and capping out because of it on TQ is virtually nonexistent.....
why don't you just tell us again how amarr is overpowered.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 17:38:00 -
[100]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 17:46:22
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 17:36:06
Originally by: 7shining7one7
why don't you just tell us again how amarr is overpowered.
I just did pal, you just missed it due to your lack of a clue.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
i don't play on sisi
Its where you cap/fit ideas belong.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and it sucks 2bu that you can't afford 200m worth of npc faction gear
Wasting isk on pointless modules is stupid, but then at 100 isk per implant on sissi i suppose its ok....and you only need to buy them once on TQ and wait for the mirror on sissi i suppose.
yeah it was so pointless that i got 350 dps more than your fit.. and was able to cram in double heavy cap boosters mwd, web and a large repper..
but since when has 350 dps and that other stuff been relevant right..
i mean as we all know.. npc faction gear (which is very cheap) is totally bogus to buy.. also deadspace and officer mods are completely useless, especially on capital ships... and the only one that actually uses them are "rich f's" that don't know that t2 is better.. in every aspect.
i allready told you i don't play on sisi, but you seem to know an aweful lot about sisi though don't you.
what happened to you anyways.. did you get pwned by an amarrian fleet in a gatecamp cause you fit for 2 minutes worth of cap or what?
someone must've surely ****ed you off for you to make up all this bullsjit..
maybe he was just better than you?
hey there's plenty of ppl that are better than me.. but atleast i can admit it..
|
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 18:03:00 -
[101]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 18:08:32
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 18:06:27
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 17:56:32
Originally by: 7shining7one7
but since when has 350 dps been relevant right..
NON FACTION MODS ABADDON DMG/RAGE RATIOS.
FACTION MF 1079 dps at 0-15km
FACTION MODS ON A MEGA DMG/RANGE RATIOS.
faction antimatter 1305dps at 0-4.5km
NULL NOT POSTED care to tell us?.
226 more dps at 1/3 of the available range even with faction mods....
PS: FACTION MEGA EHP: 62k
NON-FACTION ABADDON EHP: 110,000
you're never going to get close enough to a blaster boat to use multifrequency unless you want to live.. therefore only scorch or other crystals that you end up using but pretend that don't exist or that you don't need.. apply.. including to the cap usage since the various crystals makes your turrets use more cap..
also you do know that armor repairers or shield boosters are not factored into the ehp, so while your abaddon has 110k ehp.. it doesn't recoup from them.. when it looses 50 of them.. it only has 50k and it's not getting the other ones back unless someone reps it.. the megathron fit is stronger than you think it is..
and that the ehp says nothing about focused attacks on specific resists?
and that the em/therm damage type is the overall weakest damage type in game..
and that the kin/therm dmg type is the overall best damage combination in game..
you know those little chestnuts that nobody refutes except you, because in idiot land ehp and dps is all that exists.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 18:20:00 -
[102]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 18:20:35
you can try and keep up this charade as long as you want
but what remains is this
amarr is not overpowered
nobody will listen to you
you are irellevant and stupid
you will continue to whine and die just like you allways do
and nothing will come of this
goodbye.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 20:42:00 -
[103]
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 21:21:00 -
[104]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 21:36:56
stop multi quote posting with internal responses, it's a clear sign of trolling.
learn to click quote and read the text below and stop being a failure.
1. rails are not useless
2. rails can't be compared to pulse
3. pulse cannot be compared to blasters
pulse is inbetween blaster and rails, your comparison and your whine is to no avail.
pulse rail or blasters do not need change, they represent different combat strategies, if you don't like it World of Warcraft is that way
optimal is defined as the weapon attribute that says optimal range.. optimal range for scorch is 45km optimal range for blaster with navy antimatter is 4.5km.
when a target moves away from an abaddon it goes towards scorch optimal
when a target moves away from blaster it goes away from blaster optimal
the comparison is erroneous since one is working in falloff and one is not.
what you are asking blasters do do is to have similar damage in falloff as when a ship is going moving away from you from say 30km and moving against scorch optimal which is 45km.
that would be a) gamebreaking and b) based on your misunderstanding of what is falloff and what is tracking related.
so no.. you get no cookie this time.
pulse with scorch cannot hit anything that moves within 15km-45km, that is the reason for the other crystals.
there is no such thing as a do it all crystal.
pulse with scorch has limited tracking.
can you even fly amarr? have you ever tried it? you should, it would shut you up quite fast with regards to the nonsensical babble you call informed knowledge. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 21:43:00 -
[105]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 21:48:24
if your optimal on a turret is 120km and you are shooting at a target 50km away you will not hit with the same strenghth if at all..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 21:52:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 21:48:50
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 21:48:28
Originally by: 7shining7one7
if your optimal on a turret is 120km and you are shooting at a target 50km away you will not hit with the same strength if at all..
No you will load shorter range harder hitting ammo and do MORE dmg...
The only reason you will miss is if the transversal is high enough and that has nothing to do with range as its all about lateral movement.
Who the f*** do you think you are criticizing the ideas on this thread when you do not even know the basics..
i need no permission for anything. least of all yours.
so you're saying that if you have a long range charge, you'll do more dps if the target is closer to you because you will hit harder.
i'll hold you to that, now prove it.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 22:12:00 -
[107]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 22:15:57
you say you can use scorch from 45km all the way down to 15km if the target is moving towards you and still do completely stable dps without missing..
aka not needing to switch charges whatsoever as long as the target is between 15km and 50km..
you are saying scorch will hit perfect regardless..
there is no do it all crystal..
same should then be the case for loading spike in say.. medium rails (just to use an example with better tracking), but yet it is not, not even by a stretch of the imagination. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 22:24:00 -
[108]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 22:24:42
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
the part where you can use scorch from 45km all the way down to 15km if the target is moving towards you and still do completely stable dps without missing..
With 0 transversal you can hit to down to 0 with scorch and not miss at all, as i and others have told you transversal causes you to miss inside optimal the range is not what makes you miss.
How can you not understand such simple basics?.
how is 0 transversal even remotely applicable to the ingame situations.. if the target is 30km out.. (unless it's a stationary amarrian ship that you are firing upon)
besides, if this is what you are basing your calculations on no wonder you think scorch is awesome..
cause what you are doing is.. you are taking a midrange weapon system (pulse) that has a longer optimal range, thus more room where it hits before it reaches falloff and fades off
and comparing it to an extreme short range weapon system which has less room where it hits before it reaches falloff
and then you are complaining that blasters can't hit out to 45km like pulse while still doing as much damage as they do now...
that's just plain stupid. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 22:26:00 -
[109]
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
the part where you can use scorch from 45km all the way down to 15km if the target is moving towards you and still do completely stable dps without missing..
With 0 transversal you can hit to down to 0 with scorch and not miss at all, as i and others have told you transversal causes you to miss inside optimal the range is not what makes you miss.
How can you not understand such simple basics?.
how is 0 transversal even remotely applicable to the ingame situations.. if the target is 30km out.. (unless it's a stationary amarrian ship that you are firing upon)
besides, if this is what you are basing your calculations on no wonder you think scorch is awesome..
cause what you are doing is.. you are taking a midrange weapon system (pulse) that has a longer optimal range, thus more room where it hits before it reaches falloff and fades off
and comparing it to an extreme short range weapon system which has less room where it hits before it reaches falloff
and then you are complaining that blasters can't hit out to 45km like pulse while still doing as much damage as they do now...
that's just plain stupid.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 22:40:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Cohkka
Edited by: Cohkka on 08/02/2009 22:28:52
The question is: Is being able to do slightly more damage at a way shorter range worth it? The answer is: Under current gamemechanics, clearly not. If there was something like solo PvP left in EVE (in a single BS that is) that would be a valid point, if there was a way to outmaneuver the opponent, that would be a valid point as well. If there was a way to quickly zipp to the enemy and simply outdamage him that would be a valid point.
The truth is that not a single one of these points are doable. In todays combat enviroment large Blasters and ACs are subpar to Pulses in almost every but the most exotic circumstance. There is no need to come up with silly compairsons in a hypothetical scenario (that will never happen). All it needs is take a look at the KBs. The most significant damage that is done is done by Amarr BS (killing other BS/BCs and even Cruisers), they show up on most killmails on top. You're better off fitting longrange guns on your BS than Blasters/ACs in a small scale closerange battle (to put it in a viable scenario at a jump/warp in to a gate/station and the best scenario a closerange gunboat can encounter) because there is a high chance you won't do ANY damage especially when you're primaried.
I guess in the near/far future there will be an overhaul on weapon and tanking systems. In the current situation it's very one dimensional. Most ships only get looked at from a range/DPS point of view because as a BS pilot you're very limited in your options, it used to be diffrent and piloting skill did matter.
that ain't got diddly to do with amarr being overpowered, cause they allways had that range (except apoc) and they never did more dps, it's just that before, that range wasn't all that awesome, and now ppl changed combat style and now it is..
don't get mad that you can't fly any ship like you can fly an amarrian ship, you can't fly an amarrian ship like you can fly a gallente ship either.. and so forth..
you've survived both the megathron era and the nano era.. you can survive this too.. they are still viable it just takes a bit more coordination to use them than just flying solo pwning everything like you used to be able to do. (which wasn't all that cool either if you were on the opposite side of the fence)
|
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 22:43:00 -
[111]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 22:47:02
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and then you are complaining that blasters can't hit out to 45km like pulse while still doing as much damage as they do now...
Are you blind or stupid, i have told you and others i do not want blasters hitting over 30km at all let alone out to 45km, YOU EVEN REPLIED TO ME SAYING IT.
Nor have i said they should hit as hard at 45km as they do at 4.5km....are you hearing voices or are you just totally insane???
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 20:58:14
What i would do is increase the damage of blasters to at least match amarr scorch/mf dmg up to the 20km range with a steep falloff to 27/30km and 0 gun dmg after 30km for gallente blaster ships apart from the slight dmg from drones.
This way amarr rule at 20+ to 45+ as they should, we are kinda level from 10-20km and gallente still get the 2-10km range, (under 2 no fecker in a gunnery BS hits much unless its a stationary barn door).
you want blasters with 30km range and you want them to do similar damage as scorch till they reach 20km (thus you want a similar effect that scorch gets at 20km because it's optimal is 45km)... effectively making blasters midrange weapon platforms..
buffoon..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 22:54:00 -
[112]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 22:54:08
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 22:52:09
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
and then you are complaining that blasters can't hit out to 45km like pulse while still doing as much damage as they do now...
Are you blind or stupid, i have told you and others i do not want blasters hitting over 30km at all let alone out to 45km, YOU EVEN REPLIED TO ME SAYING IT.
Nor have i said they should hit as hard at 45km as they do at 4.5km....are you hearing voices or are you just totally insane???
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 20:58:14
What i would do is increase the damage of blasters to at least match amarr scorch/mf dmg up to the 20km range with a steep falloff to 27/30km and 0 gun dmg after 30km for gallente blaster ships apart from the slight dmg from drones.
This way amarr rule at 20+ to 45+ as they should, we are kinda level from 10-20km and gallente still get the 2-10km range, (under 2 no fecker in a gunnery BS hits much unless its a stationary barn door).
you want blasters with 30km range and you want them to do similar damage as scorch till they reach 20km (thus you want a similar effect that scorch gets at 20km because it's optimal is 45km)... effectively making blasters midrange weapon platforms..
buffoon.. you wanna break the whole combat strategy of an entire race just cause your preferred strategy is sitting stationary at a gatecamp and f1'ing and that you refuse to;
a) move around more or change strategy, or
b) train amarr which has weapons that fits that particular combat philosophy..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 22:58:00 -
[113]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 23:07:26
if you change the combat strategy of an entire race based on the FOTM you'll end up with ships doing exactly the same thing and just end up breaking the f'ing game..
and then you might aswell play World of Warcraft.. which is as i mentioned.. that way
now if you think ccp is stupid enough to break their own game.. then please continue demanding midrange blasters...
you do realize that the reason why amarr is mid range is because they tend to be less mobile. (read: viable fits) and the reason gallente is extreme short range is because they tend to be MORE mobile..
you can't just make blasters midrange, then you'd have to change the slot layout, stats and much more of many of the ships to differentiate their combat styles.. in this case you can't just say a) without saying b, c and d aswell.. and that's the issue with that suggestion..
well the real issue is you overexaggerating and whining like a little girl to get your way.. but besides that.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 23:11:00 -
[114]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 23:11:42
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
.
and then you might aswell play World of Warcraft.. which is as i mentioned.. that way
If you know the way, we wish you well kkbye.
It will be nice for you to play a game that you do not lose your "faction" stuff when you die, a bit like when they mirror sissi i bet...
you're the one proposing gamebreaking suggestions just cause you lack innovation, creativity and strategy..
and no, considering how rude you have been to people in this thread.. you won't be missed..
and i don't play on sisi, you do.. you keep f'ing talking about it anyways..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 23:18:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Murina
Im pretty sure the ship will be in the optimal of MF (0-15km) longer than in the optimal of null(0-11km).
Simple math really.
Also you need to take into account how much dmg the ship takes while getting into the optimal high dmg ranges, saying hey look i burned into blaster antimatter range and am gonna hit you for a uber 1300dps is worthless if you have 20,000 ehp left and he has 90.000 and is still hitting you for a 1000dps.
we've allready been over that.. 1 tracking disruptor turns megapulse from midrange to short range....
this becomes even more of an issue for amarr if blasters start hitting awesome all the way out to 20km..
take the abaddon and hype.. hype has 5 mid slots.. abaddon has 4.. (and needs a lot of cap since it doesn't get ship bonus for cap)
and the other amarr ships are similar with that slot placement..
but ofcourse it's more convenient for you to just omit all that isn't it.. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 23:20:00 -
[116]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 23:22:16
Originally by: Murina
Bud the guy is all about 1 v 1 BS and sees the BS through sissi eft eyes instead of the reality that is and has been eve for years. We both know their was no megathron era (although i did enjoy the nano domi) he just looks at the max dmg of faction boosted blasters and has no clue at all how impractical they are in TQ eve.
hey.. dunceboi..
no.
oh.. i forgot..
there were no blasterthrons.. just a figment of someones imagination.. they were never viable.. they never existed... |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 23:29:00 -
[117]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 23:30:44
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
we've allready been over that.. 1 tracking disruptor turns megapulse from midrange to short range....
Actually it brings them down to still over 20km..you think thats short wow i guess blaster do need a boost that as they are short range according to you.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
this becomes even more of an issue for amarr if blasters start hitting awesome all the way out to 20km.. .
"Hitting awesome", well that one way of putting it although i said matching pulse out to 20km...and you think pulse hit for "awesome" dmg do you WOW..
Your agreeing with me without even knowing it you clown.
Remember what i said about read think ect ect before you post?.
hit for awesome as in same damage as pulse (while being kin/therm which means more dmg inflicted than pulse) and still maintain their insane damage when they get close..
no i didn't agree with you.. clown... you just fail at comprehension 1o1..
actually it brings SCORCH pulse down from 45 to 22.5km..
and multifreq goes down to around 7.5km.
i'd say that's pretty f'ing short range for a mid range weapon system..
cone..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 23:32:00 -
[118]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 23:33:32
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
actually it brings SCORCH pulse down from 45 to 22.5km..
and multifreq goes down to around 7.5km.
i'd say that's pretty f'ing short range for a mid range weapon system..
cone..
You a psyco a fool and a total emotard when it comes to posting go away.
in spellcheck land, letters own you.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 23:42:00 -
[119]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 23:44:38
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 23:39:38
Originally by: Selia Rain
Originally by: Murina
Im pretty sure the ship will be in the optimal of MF (0-15km) longer than in the optimal of null(0-11km).
Just going to say that due to the wonder that is the stasis webifier+warp scrambler II combo, you'll be in blaster optimal until you die.
You can't really kite a blaster ship that's got a scrambler+web on you.
That is cos you are looking at the fight starting at 0 instead of at 15-20+ like a gate jumpin ect.
Originally by: Selia Rain
Am I reading correctly that you are actually looking for a gallente boost rather than an amarr nerf? So really amarr are fine, but gallente are underpowered.
Im about balancing the systems bud nerf boost are what emo tards use when they cannot think properly. The game and the numbers in it is making the silly optimal of blasters/ac worthless compared to pulse so the systems need adjusting, what i gave was one idea.
8/10 for irony..
you've spent the entire thread claiming that amarr is overpowered..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 23:50:00 -
[120]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 23:54:35
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 08/02/2009 23:46:19
Originally by: 7shining7one7
8/10 for irony..
you've spent the entire thread claiming that amarr is overpowered..
10/10 for trolly stupidity and brainless emo posting.
They are OP...., but reducing a system is not the only option emo boy, maybe if you thought before you posted and were not such a moron you would understand that boosting, adding counters or adjusting other systems that are underpowered by comparison is also a answer.
that's funny i thought you said nerf and boost were words emotards used when they cannot think properly
and when you label something as overpowered that either means nerf or boost.. sure you can call it adjustment if you want to be stealthy about it..
now if you had said amarr are ok and balanced as they are, but we might look a bit at blasters.. then your comment was valid..
but no.. you spent the entire thread spewing graphs and yelling and screaming about how amarr were totally overpowered and how life was unfair and whatnot..
|
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 23:55:00 -
[121]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 08/02/2009 23:57:19
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
8/10 for irony..
you've spent the entire thread claiming that amarr is overpowered..
10/10 for trolly stupidity and brainless emo posting.
They are OP...., but reducing a system is not the only option emo boy, maybe if you thought before you posted and were not such a moron you would understand that boosting, adding counters or adjusting other systems that are underpowered by comparison is also a answer.
that's funny i thought you said nerf and boost were words emotards used when they cannot think properly
and when you label something as overpowered that either means nerf or boost.. sure you can call it adjustment if you want to be stealthy about it..
now if you had said amarr are ok and balanced as they are, but we might look a bit at blasters.. then your comment was valid..
but no.. you spent the entire thread spewing graphs and yelling and screaming about how amarr were totally overpowered and how life was unfair and whatnot..
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors and word play...is that all you have left to add to this thread?.
hey i'm just repeating what you said. v0v
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 00:03:00 -
[122]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 00:04:52
Originally by: Murina
..stuff (5/10 for spin)..
Now why don't you go away and let the grown ups talk.
are you sure you're gonna be ok, do you want me to get you some candy?
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 00:21:00 -
[123]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 00:23:18
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 09/02/2009 00:15:37
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 00:04:52
Originally by: Murina
Amarrr is OP.
I actually did none of that, the yelling and screaming was by you, the silly examples and other crap was you as well, and at no point did i mention that life was unfair.
In fact i mentioned yesterday in a reply to you that i did not want to touch amaar, i even had to remind you AGAIN of it tonight and you misread it in your emo state and started ranting.
Now why don't you go away and let the grown ups talk.
are you sure you're gonna be ok, do you want me to get you some candy?
Reported for trolling.
Told you yesterday my idea and you have ignored and trolled it twice.
Add valid content or be gone.
like when you trolled nightmare? you've trolled this entire post looking back on the pages, and said quite a few condescending things.. guess we'll have to move you up to to 9/10 for irony..
amarr are quite fine.. ac's could be looked at and so could blasters.. but stop calling amarr overpowered when they are quite balanced and we might get somewhere. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 01:02:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 09/02/2009 00:52:38
Originally by: Goumindong
No, they don't and if they do, they're dumb. We've been over this before. Specifically hardening is only beneficial when you know what you're going to be getting into. It takes too many slots and gives too little benefit.
Your right ppl do not fit race specific tanks they fit onmi tanks with plates and omni tanks plug all holes as equally as possible, so the difference in damages is negligible..
They do this because BS on TQ are gang ships and will be facing other gangs of many different types of ships and dmg types.
ANYWAY:
The biggest assumption of all is the assumption that ships and especially gank/tank fitted battle ships should be balanced on how they fight against each other in a 1 v 1 situation.
This is the worst way of balancing any ship especially a BS due to the highly subjective scenarios available on TQ. Now on sissi and on this very thread i have seen full on emo boys stride in preaching about uber DPS faction fits along with others who claim to own the BF areas of sissi in their 1 v 1 monster BS killing ships.
And to structure BS around that instead of how they perform on TQ in the TQ environment is absurd as it bears no resemblance to reality within the real game. And after listening to a few of the fools and hearing their challenges the last thing that should be done is balancing systyems with a eye to 1 v 1 or anything else but a gang situation.
So no doubt a blaster ship sitting at 5km vs a laser ship in a sissi BF area will go to the blasters ship but lasers are still OP compared to blasters and AC cos sissi aint TQ and BF areas aint low sec or 0.0.
aaahahahahahahahhaha that's awesome...
that's exactly what i've been insinuating..
and what you did was exactly the opposite of that.. you spammed abaddon fits god knows how many times in order to "show" how the laser damage was equal or close to the blaster dps output of a thron or a hype.. in an effort to show how lasers were "overpowered.. and we all kept saying to you.. dude.. amarr are not overpowered.. you're ignoring everything but dps.. you're doing it wrong..
now screw the fact that you've contradicted yourself so many bloody times, atleast now you're starting to make some iota of sense.. so let's stick with that.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 01:18:00 -
[125]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 01:26:14
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
that's exactly what i've been insinuating..
No its not you started your trolling in this thread by posting a stupid faction fitted hyperion and howling about its uber dps at it utterly stupidly small optimal.
I showed you that a baddon could do the same but with much more ehp.
But at no point did i say 1 v 1 sissi fits should be the basis of balance, in fact ive told and called you and that fool nightmare that 1 v 1 and eft fits are stupid and unrealistic for TQ so many times its absurd.
Go away troll, you either have a bad memory problem or you are a liar/nutter..
what a bunch of nonsense.. you just said that the hype would beat an abaddon if it was hitting within optimal..
and you never showed anything but futile attempts to do as much dps as a hype or a blasterthron..
i showed that fit because you proclaimed that lasers did more dps than blasters..
you were even so desperate that you created fits that were dependent on having a can nearby to fill up on cap boosters just to keep the guns firing.. in order for you to squeeze as much dps out of it as possible to get the dps even near the amount that a blasterboat can deal.. and even at that, it still fell short..
and i kept saying that lasers and amarr were balanced and that it was not the issue here..
just when you've begun saying something rational for a change you start with your condescending drivel yet again.. how sad.
now instead of making another condescending post filled with nonsense.. why don't you just take a moment.. and continue with the rational stuff you were saying just prior to that..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:08:00 -
[126]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 14:09:52
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 06/02/2009 20:32:52
Originally by: Captator
Post your main's killboard stats if they are so awesome, I wonder how many of those kills are 'solo', and unless the gangs are very small, gang kills mean very little. I don't fly fleets any more, if I did, getting large numbers of recorded kills wouldn't be hard.
My main cannot post atm but i do not hide it ever. <- this
Fleets such suck although i have been in a few over the years, my figures have suffered recently as i took a lot of time off (almost a year) to move house and start a new business but im sure if you troll through them all you will find plenty of kills in ALL forms of pvp...I prefer smallish high spec gang pvp but i have pretty much done it all over the years.
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-sophisticatedlimabean-kills.html
The board only goes back to 2005 unfortunately.
Now stfu and let the grown ups talk.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:15:00 -
[127]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 14:25:36
btw. muria.. you've killed plenty of amarr overpowered ships in 08.. there's even 3 on the same page in some cases.. primarily abaddons and apoc's..
but i guess you're right.. lasers are f'ing overpowered and they must've fallen asleep at the helm and forgot to turn on their OMGLAZORS.
or isn't the fact simply that you want midrange blasters so that you have to move even less at the gatecamp whilst taking them down i wonder...
what a farce..
and sure.. amarr gets on a lot of killmails but i can't help but suggest that it has a little bit more to do with amarr being able to hit further out with less dps (scorch) (which can easily be remedied by a single tracking disruptor) and thus able to get on more KM's (since they don't have to move that much) and do more dps over time so it looks like they deal massive inflicted dps in a short period of time.. which is simply not the case. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:26:00 -
[128]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 14:36:30
btw. muria.. you've killed plenty of amarr overpowered ships in 08.. there's even 3 on the same page in some cases.. primarily abaddons and apoc's..
but i guess you're right.. lasers are f'ing overpowered and they must've fallen asleep at the helm and forgot to turn on their OMGLAZORS.
or isn't the fact simply that you want midrange blasters so that you have to move even less at the gatecamp whilst taking them down i wonder...
what a farce..
and sure.. amarr gets on a lot of killmails but i can't help but suggest that it has a little bit more to do with amarr being able to hit further out with less dps (scorch) (which can easily be remedied by a single tracking disruptor) and thus able to get on more KM's (since they don't have to move that much) and do more dps over time so it looks like they deal massive inflicted dps in a short period of time.. which is simply not the case.
but guess what.. that's allways been the case with amarr.. how the f can amarr being midrange and gallente being short range surprise a vet like you? and how ironic is it that you are screaming bloody murder over something that's been the case for years just as amarr are being cut some slack in OTHER AREAS totally unrelated to pulse scorch..
and how is it fair that amarr with their poor mobility and other issues, should have to keep a blastership more than 20km away at all times or become outdamaged? your suggestions make me dissy sometimes |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:17:00 -
[129]
Amarr:
less dps, bad damage type meaning less dmg inflicted (eanm fit has higher base resists on em and therm then kinetic..)
compensated for this by.. no need for reload, insta range switch, fighting predominately in mid range.. hitting nothing at point blank range (there's your crystal fragmentation for you) and great tanking..
balanced by: fitting issues, cap issues, skill intensitivity for viable usage.. lack of mobility.. having to keep firing continuously in order to even get close to keeping up with actual dmg inflicted of gallente when gallente is within optimal. has to predominately use huge buffer tank fits since active tanking messes with their cap in many cases.
Gallente:
more dps, best dmg types in game, awesome dronage and versatility.. and more damage inflicted even if amarr and gallente dps are exactly the same.
easier to maintain cap stable fit due to less cap requirements, more slot versatility, can use dual rep fits as viable tanking.. which is far superior to buffer tanking if the fight only last a few minutes.. as demonstrated by a dual rep hyperion.
balanced by: extreme short range weaponry with poor tracking.
also.. gallente has 10 seconds reload time factored into their dps, making their actual damage per charge cycle even greater than it looks on paper, and also gives breathing room for the cap to catch and to overcome jamming.. amarr on the other hand has to keep firing just to just moderately keep up with the dps.. which means ewar is even worse of an issue for amarr than it is for gallente.
the thing amarr has got going for em is being able to sit still whilst switching crystals and staying in optimal, but not all crystals do very much damage.. and the most damaging crystal has a severely limited range on pulse (15km +10 falloff)
and you want to give gallente blasters the ability to hit as good as amarr does within the 10-12km range totally neglecting resist calculation (actual damage inflicted), damage type or the above stated issues..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:25:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
hitting nothing at point blank range (there's your crystal fragmentation for you)
ALL GUNNERY systems miss at point blank RANGE because of tracking issues ffs......, LASERS DO NOT FRAGMENT IN EVE.
SHEESH YOUR SO CLUELESS.
pray tell how much dps pulse lasers do at 2.5km with both targets sitting completely still..
how about beams at 2.5km when both targets are sitting completely still?
at any rate the other points are completely valid.
|
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:38:00 -
[131]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 15:39:55
Amarr:
less dps, bad damage type meaning less dmg inflicted (eanm fit has higher base resists on em and therm then kinetic..)
compensated for this by.. no need for reload, insta range switch, fighting predominately in mid range.. and great passive tanking capabilities..
balanced by: fitting issues, cap issues, skill intensitivity for viable usage.. lack of mobility.. having to keep firing continuously in order to even get close to keeping up with actual dmg inflicted of gallente when gallente is within optimal. has to predominately use huge buffer tank fits since active tanking messes with their cap in many cases. are immense cap hogs due to their constant firing thus lending them highly vulnerable to heavy neuts or nos and being horrible in falloff.
Gallente:
more dps, best dmg types in game, awesome dronage and versatility.. and more damage inflicted even if amarr and gallente dps are exactly the same.
easier to maintain cap stable fit due to less cap requirements, more slot versatility, can use dual rep fits as viable tanking.. which is far superior to buffer tanking if the fight only last a few minutes.. as demonstrated by a dual rep hyperion.
balanced by: extreme short range weaponry with poor tracking which makes them miss in their otherwise decent falloff unless the target has more or less 0 transversal.
also.. gallente has 10 seconds reload time factored into their dps, making their actual damage per charge cycle even greater than it looks on paper, and also gives breathing room for the cap to catch and to overcome jamming.. amarr on the other hand has to keep firing just to just moderately keep up with the dps.. which means ewar is even worse of an issue for amarr than it is for gallente, especially if the ewar affects their optimal range.
the thing amarr has got going for em is being able to sit still whilst switching crystals and staying in optimal, but not all crystals do very much damage.. and the most damaging crystal has a severely limited range on pulse (15km +10 falloff)
and you want to give gallente blasters the ability to hit as good as amarr does within the 0-20km range totally neglecting resist calculation (actual damage inflicted), damage type or the above stated issues..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:41:00 -
[132]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 15:42:05
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: NightmareX
Do you really think one person (you Murina) in this topic can make me think that Lasers are owerpowered when 10-12 others are sayin they are not?.
Erm not only is their this thread but several others all about fixing not only the problems with pulse, ac, blasters but also a few about beams, arties and rails.
Its not just me pal although all i normally see are gourm and a couple of others with the same poor excuses about how amarr "deserve to be op" cos its their "role", oh and of course the 1 v 1 sissi fools like you who have no clue about the reality of eve TQ.
it's funny how you are the lone gunman protesting against "amarr being overpowered" here then, and how they are nowhere to be found in this 22 page thread, maybe they saw the light and you didn't?
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:44:00 -
[133]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 15:45:51
Amarr:
less dps, bad damage type meaning less dmg inflicted (eanm fit has higher base resists on em and therm then kinetic..)
compensated for this by.. no need for reload, insta range switch, fighting predominately in mid range.. and great passive tanking capabilities..
balanced by: fitting issues, cap issues, skill intensitivity for viable usage.. lack of mobility.. having to keep firing continuously in order to even get close to keeping up with actual dmg inflicted of gallente when gallente is within optimal. has to predominately use huge buffer tank fits since active tanking messes with their cap in many cases. are immense cap hogs due to their constant firing thus lending them highly vulnerable to heavy neuts or nos and being horrible in falloff.
Gallente:
more dps, best dmg types in game, awesome dronage and versatility.. and more damage inflicted even if amarr and gallente dps are exactly the same.
easier to maintain cap stable fit due to less cap requirements, more slot versatility, can use dual rep fits as viable tanking.. which is far superior to buffer tanking if the fight only last a few minutes.. as demonstrated by a dual rep hyperion.
balanced by: extreme short range weaponry with poor tracking which makes them miss in their otherwise decent falloff unless the target has more or less 0 transversal.
also.. gallente has 10 seconds reload time factored into their dps, making their actual damage per charge cycle even greater than it looks on paper, and also gives breathing room for the cap to catch and to overcome jamming.. amarr on the other hand has to keep firing just to just moderately keep up with the dps.. which means ewar is even worse of an issue for amarr than it is for gallente, especially if the ewar affects their optimal range.
the thing amarr has got going for em is being able to sit still whilst switching crystals and staying in optimal, but not all crystals do very much damage.. and the most damaging crystal has a severely limited range on pulse (15km +10 falloff)
and you want to give gallente blasters the ability to hit as good as amarr does within the 0-20km range totally neglecting resist calculation (actual damage inflicted), damage type or the above stated issues.. and have the falloff start at 20km and end at 30km
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:58:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
less dps
In a insignificantly small window where they still get very high DPS, but they also get much greater DPS in a 10-45+km range most other races systems cannot even hit at.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
fitting issues
Originally by: Murina
LOL, best ehp in the game..
on an triplated abaddon.. which can't deal **** for dps.. unless reducing that ehp..
Originally by: 7shining7one7
cap issues
Originally by: Murina
Only if you wanna perma run a mwd or reppers...
oh really.. i'm sure the amarr players in the eve universe will be happy to hear the grand tale of when murina willed their cap issues away especially on the abaddon that lacks the capacitor bonus for the turrets.
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:03:00 -
[135]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 16:05:16
Originally by: Murina
Have i asked for any amarr nerfs?...
calling amarr and lasers overpowered for the full length of a 22 pages long thread (you started out hard and fast on the first page by shouting and being condescending towards ppl and haven't stopped thus far) based on totally preposterous examples coupled with deliberate omission of details and factors when questioned = asking for nerf/buff c/d?
/c
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:08:00 -
[136]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 16:08:06
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
oh really.. i'm sure the amarr players in the eve universe will be happy to hear the grand tale of when murina willed their cap issues away especially on the abaddon that lacks the capacitor bonus for the turrets.
Do you actually see what your typing???, and how worst case, maxed out, emo exaggeration, stupid interpretation response it is?.
I did not say cap was not a issue, i said it was not a large issue unless you wanna perma run a mwd ect.
Be honest when was he last time you absolutely HAD to perma run your MWD in your BS??, cos i cannot ever remember doing it so it cannot be a very regular need.
Now i am sure you will turn what i said into some emo fuel reinterpreted rant but its true and you cannot change it.
if you think the only cap problem amarr has is not being able to perma run mwd.. (also what kind of stupid example is that.. who does that anyways) then i welcome you to fly amarr and see what it's like.. the "boost amarr" emo rage post that will follow will be absolutely epic..
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:11:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
mydeluded and emo interpreted/diseased mind translates lasers are op compared to blasters and ac are op = asking for nerf/buff ?
/reminds the emo goldfish memory liar for the 5th time about his many posts and re-posts about not changing amarr.
Dude i only reminded you of this a few posts ago...you are such a liar and a troll..
GO AWAY
dude.. on the one hand you say.. amarr is overpowered omfg..
on the other you say amarr is fine..
dude.. what you are doing is like in that f'ing movie invasion from mars..
"DON'T RUN WE ARE YOUR FRIENDS *pew pew pew*" |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:14:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 09/02/2009 16:12:43
Originally by: 7shining7one7
[troll
LEARN HOW TO READ.
NOW GO AWAY
NO U! |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:19:00 -
[139]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 16:19:54
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
yet more troll
reported.
go away.
priceless.. in basically every page of this thread you call someone condescending things and spam graph images all over the f'ing place.. and then you want us to your best friend..
also you when introduced with facts that go against what you are trying to achieve, you slide it back in the pages by doing 3 line slide replies..
report away..
Amarr:
less dps, bad damage type meaning less dmg inflicted (eanm fit has higher base resists on em and therm then kinetic..)
compensated for this by.. no need for reload, insta range switch, fighting predominately in mid range.. and great passive tanking capabilities..
balanced by: fitting issues, cap issues, skill intensitivity for viable usage.. lack of mobility.. having to keep firing continuously in order to even get close to keeping up with actual dmg inflicted of gallente when gallente is within optimal. has to predominately use huge buffer tank fits since active tanking messes with their cap in many cases. are immense cap hogs due to their constant firing thus lending them highly vulnerable to heavy neuts or nos and being horrible in falloff.
Gallente:
more dps, best dmg types in game, awesome dronage and versatility.. and more damage inflicted even if amarr and gallente dps are exactly the same.
easier to maintain cap stable fit due to less cap requirements, more slot versatility, can use dual rep fits as viable tanking.. which is far superior to buffer tanking if the fight only last a few minutes.. as demonstrated by a dual rep hyperion.
balanced by: extreme short range weaponry with poor tracking which makes them miss in their otherwise decent falloff unless the target has more or less 0 transversal.
also.. gallente has 10 seconds reload time factored into their dps, making their actual damage per charge cycle even greater than it looks on paper, and also gives breathing room for the cap to catch and to overcome jamming.. amarr on the other hand has to keep firing just to just moderately keep up with the dps.. which means ewar is even worse of an issue for amarr than it is for gallente, especially if the ewar affects their optimal range.
the thing amarr has got going for em is being able to sit still whilst switching crystals and staying in optimal, but not all crystals do very much damage.. and the most damaging crystal has a severely limited range on pulse (15km +10 falloff)
and you want to give gallente blasters the ability to hit as good as amarr does within the 0-20km range totally neglecting resist calculation (actual damage inflicted), damage type or the above stated issues.. and have the falloff start at 20km and end at 30km
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:24:00 -
[140]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 16:26:12
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
yet more troll
reported.
go away.
dude you have allready reported me like 2 times prior to this in the duration of this thread.. you allways call me a troll or say that i'm lying whenever i've recently said something you can't refute.. when are you going to realize that you're the troll and apparently the forum mods think so aswell?
yet you don't seem deterred by it.. i guess this is your theme song |
|
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:44:00 -
[141]
Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 09/02/2009 16:49:46
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: NightmareX
Oh, so you don't believe me on my kills, so why should i believe you on that Lasers are overpowered?. Should i believe it because EFT says so?.
Actually my ideas are not based on eft figures but pure TQ pvp experience from the kills i have racked up on the main server, see i have proof of many forms of pvp xp on tq.
You have no proof of your extra 400 kills on TQ, and have posted again and again about 1 v 1 BS fits, marauder pvp, and max implanted combat on sissi as a way of trying to justify your ideas on balancing BS on TQ.
If you do not want to believe me fine but thats only cos of your lack of xp, emoboys ignorance and foolishness and gourms with to kkep his race OP compared to the other systems.
that's funny i thought i saw a plethora of progressively changing abaddon EFT fits in this thread made by you to illustrate how amarr are "superior" which failed horribly..
i also remember you didn't realize that EFT assumed infinite cap boosters so you made several fits cramming in as much dps as an abaddon could possibly dish out and using a couple injectors to run both dual rep (ON AN ABADDON.. LULZ) and full gank which would drain your cap completely in 3 minutes even with dual injectors pumping in 1600 cap per cycle, only to find out that it was utter fail because you didn't have unlimited cap charges.. and when they ran out you couldn't even fire your guns without running out of cap a minute later..
And then after a long pause, instead of admitting how much you f'ed up.. you excuse your lack of knowledge and your **** poor unrealistic fits with it being unlimited anyways because you allways had a can nearby anyways and that i was a newb for not knowing that..
and then you continue on your rant about how amarr are overpowered..
you might be a vet pvp'er but ITT you are a walking talking joke. |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 17:07:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
that's funny i thought i saw a plethora of progressively changing abaddon EFT fits in this thread made by you.
Actually i had never used eft before i got involved in this thread as i always dealt with eve in a realistic way, but i will not deny that i did get into it a bit and that you are a much more experienced eft warrior..... gratz...
f'ing touchdown man |
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 17:11:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Murina
Actually my ideas are not based on eft figures but pure TQ pvp experience
....
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
that's funny i thought i saw a plethora of progressively changing abaddon EFT fits in this thread made by you.
Actually i had never used eft before i got involved in this thread as i always dealt with eve in a realistic way, but i will not deny that i did get into it a bit and that you are a much more experienced eft warrior..... gratz...
f'ing touchdown man
|
7shining7one7
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 17:16:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: 7shining7one7
troll
Post with your main. (translation, ohgod he's right.. now i really want to kill him. /ingame)
|
|
|
| |
|