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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.05 22:43:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Atropos Kahn
Everything that is gonna happen has been determined.
Incorrect. This implies there is no choice. Everything that has happened has happened by the aggregation of individual choices.
The future and past exsist as possibilites. The main reason we see the past as fixed is becuase as humans we see time as linear. The past is as flexible as the future.
When we reach points in the year where major shifts can occur, we choose a reality and go that route. While all alternatives are happening, we just are unaware of them.
Back to the point. If there was no choice and all decision were already made, then there would be no point to living.
The purpose of life is the living of it and all the choices along the way.
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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:06:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
Edited by: Elora Danzik on 05/02/2009 22:17:14
Edited by: Elora Danzik on 05/02/2009 22:16:34
Originally by: kor anon
Originally by: David Kang
explanation
All I did was give you a rough idea on how one might remember that they are reincarnated.
It actually as simple as asking your subconscience to remember a past life. Though you need to be specific.
Just saying show me a past life in my dream tonight. might get you muddled response.
I asked specifically if I had a past life with a specific girl I was dating that was relevent to this life. Early the next morning I had a dream so vivid I swear it was real. I'd give all the details but c'mon, I'm not flame proof.
Another way to look at it would be to ask if I'd ever had a life in a specific place. If you have ever been to a place that just felt like home, then there might be a connection.
Just my experiences.
Are you a meta physician. No flame intended but I have never met one (only heard there off) and I have some questions.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:11:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Abrazzar
The odds for my existence are exactly 100%. I do exists, which is proof of the certainty of it to have happened. There is no chance or probability. Those concepts are used to substitute a unknown number of unknown influences on any event from past experience to estimate the outcome of future similar events. Everything happens the way it happens because cause and effect dictate it to happen in that specific way. Reality is just too vast and complex for our limited human minds to fully grasp its functionality in its entirety to accurately calculate it. Hence the (quite successful) crutch of probability calculations.
This is an interesting way to look at the world and I picked it out because I tend to think the same way.
I don't think chance or randomness exists - it's that we don't know enough about the world to predict the state of everything.
E.X. - you toss a six-sided die. The face it lands on is dependent on the force you've put on the die, the material of the die, the air currents, the material of whatever it's landing on, etc etc etc... but it would be insane to try to keep track of all of that, and so we substitute ignorance for randomness. |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2009.02.06 00:45:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Atropos Kahn
Good point on that last post.
Every action you make stems from the combination of variables that already happened. We all can predict the future in a macro sense, say, if I drop this glass, it will hit the floor. If you take that to a micro level, you can predict everything.
So if you were a super computer, or a GOD, and you could in one instant know the state of everying in the universe down to the quark, you could predict what is coming at the very next instant, by knowing the variables you can know everything that is further down in time.
Our conscience lives at singlular state and moves at the same pace through the timeline. like a needle on a record.
Everything that is gonna happen has been determined.
Consider this thought too... We all in reality are billions of years old. We are living beings that were forged from 2 other living beings. There are chemicals and genes (DNA) in you that you were given to from single cell organisms. We are just a link in a chain.
I aways felt that Life is burdoned with the need to survive.
So very wrong, you fail at life, end yourself.
You probably liked that piece of **** movie The Game too. |
Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.06 02:29:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: Atropos Kahn
Good point on that last post.
Every action you make stems from the combination of variables that already happened. We all can predict the future in a macro sense, say, if I drop this glass, it will hit the floor. If you take that to a micro level, you can predict everything.
So if you were a super computer, or a GOD, and you could in one instant know the state of everying in the universe down to the quark, you could predict what is coming at the very next instant, by knowing the variables you can know everything that is further down in time.
Our conscience lives at singlular state and moves at the same pace through the timeline. like a needle on a record.
Everything that is gonna happen has been determined.
Consider this thought too... We all in reality are billions of years old. We are living beings that were forged from 2 other living beings. There are chemicals and genes (DNA) in you that you were given to from single cell organisms. We are just a link in a chain.
I aways felt that Life is burdoned with the need to survive.
So very wrong, you fail at life, end yourself.
You probably liked that piece of **** movie The Game too.
Hmmm...In a way, it's like chaos theory...only in the real world you can't exactly predict every detail. Now, if you could predict everything on a molecular level, and at the same time on the Universal level, or Multiversal level (heh heh) then you could accurately predict...everything.
The only thing is, if you can predict it...you can change it.
I predict, if I put this gun to my head, and pull the trigger, I will die. Now if someone had predicted this, they could have taken out the bullets before hand. The problem is...by the time you'd be able to predict something, such as the dropping of the glass, the only thing that indicates you're possibly going to drop it is when it was picked up. How long will the individual hold onto the glass before it drops? You don't know it's going to happen until it does. There's no possible way to truly predict one hundred percent of everything.
To be honest I'm not even sure what I'm rambling on about now... |
Zora Xen
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Posted - 2009.02.06 03:59:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Zora Xen on 06/02/2009 04:06:49
Originally by: SoftRevolution
Quote:
> If there is a God(s), I don't think he/she/it could careless what you believe but rather how you live and how you treat others.
Why would that be the case?
A lot of our social mores and morals only make sense from either the point of view of being mortal or for various cultural reasons.
Why would anything you could classify as a "god" have the same values?
My point was more directed at the religious fundamentalists who think that belief (which grants membership into their tribe) determines where you end up after death.
However, a number of evolutionary biologists have pointed out there is strong link between our sense of right/wrong and evolutionary forces particularly with communities of organisms.
So I accept your point that social mores may be more more a function of our culture/evolution than an inherent divine order.
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Zora Xen
> If there is not a God, then be extraordinarily grateful for your existence because the odds against your existence are beyond comprehension. It's like winning the Lotto every second of the day.
Ok, this one just grates me.
If there is no god, then who should you be grateful to for your existence? Gratefulness has to be expressed to a conscious entity else it's just emotional massturbation.
In this instance, gratitude could be substituted for joy or any number of other positive states. When I used the term 'gratitude' I did not mean to suggest one is indebted to an 'other' -divine or otherwise. Hope that clarifies.
Originally by: Abrazzar
The odds for my existence are exactly 100%. I do exists, which is proof of the certainty of it to have happened. There is no chance or probability. Those concepts are used to substitute a unknown number of unknown influences on any event from past experience to estimate the outcome of future similar events. Everything happens the way it happens because cause and effect dictate it to happen in that specific way. Reality is just too vast and complex for our limited human minds to fully grasp its functionality in its entirety to accurately calculate it. Hence the (quite successful) crutch of probability calculations.
Using probability in an argument like a magic device just terribly annoys me. That is all.
You are correct, the odds for your existence in the Universe's current state is 100%. However, if I watch a beautiful sunset and the odds for that sunset at that moment is 100% should I feel any less gratitude, joy, awe, inspiration?
Simple existence is a wonderful thing irrespective of its probability.
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Digital Solaris
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Posted - 2009.02.06 05:01:00 -
[67]
I hope by the time of my death, technology has advanced so far to reanimate dead cells. Always wanted to be a part of a zombie apocalypse!
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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 15:52:00 -
[68]
Originally by: David Kang
Are you a meta physician. No flame intended but I have never met one (only heard there off) and I have some questions.
[/quote
In a technical sense I guess.
I just know I have hadexperiences that could not be explained traditionally. So I looked for answers in non-standard sources.
The phiolosphy that I found just made sense to me. It was like finding an old shirt that you use to wear all the time. It just fits.
I am not an expert. I just try to share what I have learned.
http://truthloveenergy.ning.com/
That website has alot of the information I talked about here. Of course since, I was typing it here it is colored by my own thoughts, feelings and understanding. So what I have said may appear different.
If you have questions, I can try to answer them.
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kor anon
Amarr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.06 15:57:00 -
[69]
Elora i'll ask again do animals get reincarnated?
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.06 16:20:00 -
[70]
It's not death I fear, it's dieing. Or rather I'm afraid of having to go without being at ease with it, sounds kinda wonky I know.
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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.02.06 16:21:00 -
[71]
Edited by: David Kang on 06/02/2009 16:24:18
Originally by: Elora Danzik
Originally by: David Kang
Are you a meta physician. No flame intended but I have never met one (only heard there off) and I have some questions.
[/quote
In a technical sense I guess.
I just know I have hadexperiences that could not be explained traditionally. So I looked for answers in non-standard sources.
The phiolosphy that I found just made sense to me. It was like finding an old shirt that you use to wear all the time. It just fits.
I am not an expert. I just try to share what I have learned.
http://truthloveenergy.ning.com/
That website has alot of the information I talked about here. Of course since, I was typing it here it is colored by my own thoughts, feelings and understanding. So what I have said may appear different.
If you have questions, I can try to answer them.
I see, I think the only question is why are some well understood sciences have been abused and contorted to make people think there mythical. Quantum mechanics is one.
Do you believe that science should be reinterpreted to explain other people experiences?
Been an atheist i do not believe any of the information displayed, i was just looking for the view of a meta physican.
always wanted to know how they ticked.
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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 17:44:00 -
[72]
Originally by: kor anon
Elora i'll ask again do animals get reincarnated?
Short answer: yes, as animals.
Longer answer: cats can reincarnate as dogs and visa versa. each animal is learning a different aspect of conscienceness.
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kor anon
Amarr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.06 17:47:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
Originally by: kor anon
Elora i'll ask again do animals get reincarnated?
Short answer: yes, as animals.
Longer answer: cats can reincarnate as dogs and visa versa. each animal is learning a different aspect of conscienceness.
Then why do humans come back as humans and not other animals?
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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 18:20:00 -
[74]
Originally by: kor anon
Then why do humans come back as humans and not other animals?
Because animal souls are "hive" souls and human souls are fragments of larger whole.
Once the "hive" soul has learned the basics of conscienceness then they can ensoul as sentient.
For a human soul to come back as an animal would be like taking a PhD and making him retake kindergarten. There would be no point because all the lessons from that age are learned.
Another way to look at it would be evoultion. What would be gained by humans evolving into an aomeba (sp?)? Nothing it would be stepping backward.
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kor anon
Amarr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.06 18:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
Originally by: kor anon
Then why do humans come back as humans and not other animals?
Because animal souls are "hive" souls and human souls are fragments of larger whole.
Once the "hive" soul has learned the basics of conscienceness then they can ensoul as sentient.
For a human soul to come back as an animal would be like taking a PhD and making him retake kindergarten. There would be no point because all the lessons from that age are learned.
Another way to look at it would be evoultion. What would be gained by humans evolving into an aomeba (sp?)? Nothing it would be stepping backward.
Shouldn't Humanity be kindergarden? I mean humans kill for fun, eat each other, sacrifice each other, have necrophiliacs, hate each other. Animals dont do that, so why if we are superior are we 100x more violent and more disgusting than animals? |
Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 18:46:00 -
[76]
WARNING BIT LONG.
Originally by: David Kang
I see, I think the only question is why are some well understood sciences have been abused and contorted to make people think there mythical. Quantum mechanics is one.
I choose to look at this question interms of the history of science as I interpert it.
In Anceint times, there was little distiction between religion and science as we understand it today. Astrology and Astoronomy were the same thing to the Babylonians, for example.
Moving forward, after the fall of Rome many of the foundations of mondern science were discovered by monks. Ochkam and Bacon were Francisicans, for example.
It is after the plague and religion's inability to protect people that the split occured. This drove science to looking at the physical world as something completely seperate from the spiritual.
What is happening now, esp. with Quantum Mechanics, is the circle is closing. Science has gone as far as it can in the physical and is re-discovering the spiritual.
Looking at it is seems hardly surprising that it begins to take on mythical themes.
The corellary to that is also protection. Science is religon to the scientist. Therefore, the "priests" must protect their "sacred" knowledge. Simply look at what happens to any scientist that bucks the establishment with empirical eveidence. They are branded "heretic" and run out the system.
Originally by: David Kang
Do you believe that science should be reinterpreted to explain other people experiences?
Yes,
I think that science generally gets interpreted to explain what people want/expect to see and can be proven from their point of view.
Example: Newton sitting under the apple tree. Apple falls. Gravity is proven most powerful on earth. (actually Galileo with cannon balls but you get it).
Expansion: Gravity contorls the movement of the planets. (Kepler)
Expansion: Gravity is caused by mass. Mass is made of matter. Matter is made of atoms. Atoms have a charge. Therefore, Gravity and Electromagnetic force must be linked, but gravity is the greater.
Problem: We know little of how Electormagnetism works beyond the earth. So, the assumption that gravity controls the universe maybe flawed.
So Kepler was right. Newton was right. With the knowledge at hand and from their point of view.
Eventually, Quantum Physic might actually prove the exsistance of the soul  |
Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 19:19:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Elora Danzik on 06/02/2009 19:21:10
Originally by: kor anon
Shouldn't Humanity be kindergarden? I mean humans kill for fun, eat each other, sacrifice each other, have necrophiliacs, hate each other. Animals dont do that, so why if we are superior are we 100x more violent and more disgusting than animals?
 Have you watched animal palnet lately? The animal world is extremely violent.
Just because human souls have evoled to handle being sentient doesn't mean all choices will be loveing, caring, sunbeams and unicorns. Some choices will be destructive.
All is chosen.
All that you listed are choice made by individuals. Even choosing to view humanity as negative as you have listed is your choice. A necrophilliac has chosen in this life to derive sexual pleasure from dead people. Why? They decided to. The reasons are a limitless as you can imagine. Maybe the desire human interaction but lack the ability to experience intamacy with living people, or maybe they think its cool.
Personality, parental, societial, and many other influences affect choice. Choice is why bad and good things happen. Animal do not have the range of choices available that humnas do. Thus, to you and others they appear more peaceful, or evolved.
****** believed his decision to kill the Jews was right. Just as the Isreali government believes their decision is kill the Palistinians is right. Personally, they are both wacked, and that is my choice.
There is no right and wrong. Only Choice and Consequence.
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kor anon
Amarr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.06 19:23:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
There is no right and wrong. Only Choice and Consequence.
If theres no right or wrong how can we be taught lessons? Having to learn suggests there is a right way to do things.... |
Dred 'Morte
New European Regiment
R.U.R.
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Posted - 2009.02.06 19:47:00 -
[79]
"No one knows whether death, which people fear to be the greatest evil, may not be the greatest good."
Who knows who said that? |
Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 20:22:00 -
[80]
Originally by: kor anon
If theres no right or wrong how can we be taught lessons? Having to learn suggests there is a right way to do things....
I would say loving instead of right.
Right and wrong imply, to me, a moral decision. Morality is generally based on the prevailing religion/philosophy at the time. Therefore, what is right and wrong changes over time.
Since we are working with reincarnation, lets look at an example.
Life one:
A mother has a child. The motherÆs situation is such that to try to care for the child will result in death for both mother and child. However, if the mother abandons the child, she will be able to live though, itÆs a high probability of death to child.
What is the right choice? Ask 50 people you will get 50 different answers. All of which will be right to those people.
LetÆs say the mother abandons the child in the wilderness resulting in the childÆs death.
To me, this creates a karmic ribbon joining these two souls. At some point in the future, this karma will have to be addressed.
Life two:
Same situation only mother is now child, and child is now mother. Here is a chance to balance the karma. The most direct means would be for the now mother to do the same with the same result. The child would accept this, as it would balance the karma.
However, the now mother choose to abandon the child at a monastery instead. However, the now child dies for whatever cause you wish. The karma is balanced.
Both made choices.
What was learned? A consequence of abandoning a child is increased chance of the death of the child.
Is it wrong to abandon the child? Might as well ask is it wrong to commit suicide and murder by not abandoning the child. It is a choice.
The choice in life two, I would say, is the more loving choice, as it is more likely that child will live.
The point of maturity of the soul through reincarnation is learning to make more loving choices. Those choices will not always be right by the standards of the time.
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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 20:24:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
"No one knows whether death, which people fear to be the greatest evil, may not be the greatest good."
Who knows who said that?
google says Plato.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
MasterBlasters Inc.
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2009.02.06 20:37:00 -
[82]
Oh, just keep your clones updated and there's nothing to worry about
----------------------
Putting the sensual in nonconsensual
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Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.06 20:49:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Oh, just keep your clones updated and there's nothing to worry about
Ah the wisdom of Eve. Kinda like making sure your ship is actually fitted before you undock
speaking of.....
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.07 00:50:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Elora Danzik
Right and wrong imply, to me, a moral decision. Morality is generally based on the prevailing religion/philosophy at the time. Therefore, what is right and wrong changes over time.
It also changes due to circumstance. If you and another person are both pointing a gun at each other, both come to the same conclusion that if you do not shoot, you will die and you are religious whether the other person is religious too is unknown.
To kill is a sin and therefore it should not be done. But to commit suicide is a sin too and not shooting is as good as committing suicide since you know that the other person is going to kill you if you don't shoot. Either way, you are going to commit a sin. A dilemma that is resolved by only one factor... Self preservation.
I'd hazard a guess that fewer than 0% would wait and let the other person make the decision.
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Lord Kazuhiro
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.07 03:15:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel
Originally by: Last Wolf
Burning to death, Drowning, or being buried alive.
Other than that I think I could cope. Not afraid of death, Just the dying part
Same. Although I don't think I'd have much of a problem with drowning.
Burning, being buried alive. That's bad.
Cadmium poisoning, being ripped to pieces (racking) and dying from any type of hemorrhagic fever virus ranks pretty high as well.
Fear of being Buried alive is mostly a psychological thing for me.
The rest is the sheer potential for pain.
Drowning is actually rather peaceful after your lungs fill with water. Upto that point however, it sucks. Been there done that.
No intention of trying it again. |
Zora Xen
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Posted - 2009.02.07 07:35:00 -
[86]
If anyone would like a fascinating read, try this Article.
I'm not endorsing the views expressed, but it is very thought provoking.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Horsemen of Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.02.07 15:10:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
The immediate events leading to death are a frightening prospect I do not like to think about, but the state itself, meh. I am not afraid of non-being, which is what I expect.
basically this, i wish to die qucikly and suddenly / peacefully when im 70 years old or so
i shudder at the thought of drowning, slowly bleeding, starving, or . . . . . burning to death
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Marie Duvolle
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Posted - 2009.02.07 16:08:00 -
[88]
It's funny how humans somehow try to give their existence an extra twist to try and soothe their fears and insecureties. All these ideas of right, wrong etc... it's all unimportant. In the end we're just animals who get born, live and then die.
Don't stir the hornet's nest |
Haldane IV
Einstein's Dreams
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Posted - 2009.02.07 23:01:00 -
[89]
Originally by: goodby4u
Well personally I wonder where the consiousness goes when somebody dies, which makes me a believer in"soul"transmigration or reincarnation.
But the death subject myself I am definitately not afraid of, infact when it comes it might be interesting to find out whos right .
Given that brains are the product of the evolutionary process, something that has long occupied my thoughts is what exactly human ôintelligenceö, or ôconsciousnessö, is, in the context I think this poster has in mind.
Is there a point where it can be said that the bio-mechanical processes that go on in our brains that determine our actions/attitudes to any given situation/consideration, have evolved so far as to become something more than just an extremely sophisticated refinement of the tendency of neuron connections in our brains to spark in a particular way in response to a particular stimulus (a tendency determined by natural selection)? Are our thought processes still just a development of the basic "fight or flight" instinct, or have they become something more than that now?
If the answer is yes, we have attained this state of being ôsomething moreö, I submit that it is a great shame that we as individuals are robbed of that state of consciousness by physical death. But if we are just biological machines, then logic dictates that all there is is that you just get on with your existence for as long as it continues, then it ends, no biggy.
I donÆt think I have put that very well, but itÆs the best I can do. And I havenÆt made my mind up on the issue yet.
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DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.02.07 23:17:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Karrade Krise
I don't believe in God and all that, but I don't consider myself Atheist or anything.
Uhhh, that's the definition of athiest... |
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