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Alex555
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Posted - 2009.02.08 19:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu It is quite funny though, prices are reaching as low as 300mil nowadays.
the volume has increased.
still it is a slight upward movement of plex's prices
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Breaker77
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Posted - 2009.02.08 19:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Alex555
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu It is quite funny though, prices are reaching as low as 300mil nowadays.
the volume has increased.
still it is a slight upward movement of plex's prices
284 mil where I'm at and still dropping
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Astarte Nosferatu
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.08 19:54:00 -
[33]
Bubble -> Crash in a week or two timeframe.
WE NEED CCP INTERVENTION!
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5th of Februari 2009: Victory over BoB Day. |
Alex555
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:08:00 -
[34]
we dont need any intervention
in fact an intervention doesnt make anything good. things must flow in natural way. either way they go the market will decide |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:24:00 -
[35]
Hey, one thing I'm happy to be wrong about ! I shall vouch to try and never, ever again underestimate the lazyness and/or stupidity and/or desperation of really large numbers of people
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Astarte Nosferatu
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Alex555 we dont need any intervention
in fact an intervention doesnt make anything good. things must flow in natural way. either way they go the market will decide
There was a hint of sarcasm in my post. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.09 04:30:00 -
[37]
We still have quite a bit until patch day, and once the changes hit the test server Im sure you'll start to see numbers climb again. |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.11 02:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria We still have quite a bit until patch day, and once the changes hit the test server Im sure you'll start to see numbers climb again.
nope still slumping with the volume for sale in my market slowly growing.
see the reality is that theirs only so many people who actualy USE plex cards (as in redeem them for game time) and none of them want to spend any more ISK than they actualy need to.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.11 03:34:00 -
[39]
Give it a month.
I still suspect credit card fraud. With the GTC system CCP had to send a physical card to a real world address. With the new system the PLEX appears in inventory. There's a reason GTC sellers had extra security measures -- and it wasn't because they liked the personal touch of contacting each customer.
People who bought ISK with credit cards but are not repeat customers may find some large charges on their bill in 3 weeks or so. Until then stolen CC numbers can generate 1.8B/day for ISK sellers.
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.11 06:13:00 -
[40]
I personaly suspect that it was mostly CCP wanting to make a bigger margin than what they were making on the whole deal and wanting to cut out the Gamecode sellers who are quite honestly suspected of being part of the problem currently in EvE.
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Pese deu
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Posted - 2009.02.11 07:47:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Pese deu on 11/02/2009 07:50:34 I can't help wondering how long this system will work. This is because something similar was possible in the early years of Eve. Back in 2004 you could buy ETC's directly from CCP and you would get the codes in your email. Then you could sell those codes on the forums for ISK.
That system was so abused with fraud that they scrap it and moved the risk to resellers.
Now they added back this system with the slight modification of adding an ingame item representing the ETC. I wonder why. All i know is that now Plex buying/selling has become less secure. Let me explain.
Imagine the following scenario:
- someone purchases with a stolen card 6 plex's. Sells them on market at the highest buy orders. Then he washes the ISK by purchasing skills, bps and move them to a different char(s). What will happen when the chargeback comes in ? What will happen to the honest buyers ? Will CCP remove their time added with plex's that were initially bought with a stolen card ? At this point CCP is in a lose-lose situation. If they remove the added time from honest buyers that did not know they were buying Plex's acquired with stolen cards then you can imagine what happens.... If they do not remove the time added from honest buyers then CCP is offering their services for free. They already lost due to chargebacks and can't punish honest players for something they could not control. Or if they do then those honest buyers will leave eve altogether.
This move (of allowing Plex purchasing directly from CCP) was the worst i've seen in years. That is because it will solve nothing:
- CCP will not earn more because the will be targeted by hackers and as i've already explained, purchases from stolen credit cards leads to a lose-lose situation for CCP. - RMT will not be eliminated. If anything it will make it easier. As i've seen on some ISK selling sites the current rates are at around 30-40 USD per Billion. At current Plex prices you can buy ISK from CCP at around 60 USD per billion. If the Plex prices go down (as CCP wants), the Billion will cost more (at 200 mil/plex , 1 bil will cost 85 USD). ISK sellers will still offer better prices. And for those that lowest price is more important then transaction safety , then they will still buy ISK not from CCP. Furthermore, now ISK sellers have more way to sell their ISK. They can easily offer on ebay or on their sites Plex's (bought with ISk from Jita) that can be paid with additional payment methods such as Paypal. They have now a new purpose of farming ISK... to buy plex's thus offering and additional product/service with their RMT business. Furtherfurthermore, if CCP plan is to have plex's price going down then this will only help RMTs. That is because, let's say that the plex goes down to 200 mil, then they can buy with 1 billion ISK 5 plex's on the market ingame instead of 3 now. They will then transform their farmed ISK for more money.
Whoever took this decision at CCP did not think it through me believes. |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.11 15:54:00 -
[42]
Actualy a few counterpoints
with the new system they can tie a verified (IE subscribed) players account to the stolen card. use a stolen card the account is banned.(you cant buy plex with a trial account right now)
CCP will earn more per duplex sold because they dont have to sell the card at a discount to a third party (I know they are not getting the volume benifit that WoW gets and WoW gets 8.50 per game month for cards and codes sold by third parties)
CCP also busted some of the virtual card sellers for being part of the RMT that they are dealing with right now.(seriously what would you do if your real buisness is selling ISK for $, I think I would wrather pay the <8.50 per game month that they have to pay for the GTCs by being a "GTCseller" and by the way also sell some GTCs on the side to legit players) what it boiled down to was CCP was virtualy paying some of the ISK sellers operate as ISK sellers.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.11 16:14:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Edited by: Steve Thomas on 11/02/2009 03:05:54 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 11/02/2009 03:04:45 Edited by: Steve Thomas on 11/02/2009 03:03:20
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria We still have quite a bit until patch day, and once the changes hit the test server Im sure you'll start to see numbers climb again.
nope still slumping with the number siting in sell orders constantly growing, and the gap between buy and sell orders increasing.
see the reality is that theirs only so many people who actualy USE plex/GTC (as in redeem them for game time) and none of them want to spend any more ISK than they actualy need to.
what happend was a bunch of people got the idiot idea that because its so cheesy easy to make ISK in this game that people will be more willing to spend isk instead of Cash to play.
This was compounded by the idiots in game who thought WoW! Better get in on this before it hits whatever the magic number is and then bail out, and sunk their ISK into the plex market further driving the price up.
the REALITY is that when the Asterics hits the fan it can be cheeper to pay for a months subs with real cash than isk. Right now we have the triple whamy of the Reacter exploit being tanked by CCP, BoB getting, well, BoBed, and the usual market runup in prices prior to the release of an expansion forceing people to decide if its cheeper to pay for a month with cash or with ISK. right now most people want to hold on to ISK and data cores.
Supply glut, I still feel we'll see a rise in prices as patch day approaches and into a month or two afterwards.
I'd have to look to confirm, but Im pretty sure GTC have followed roughly the same pattern
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Pese deu
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:20:00 -
[44]
e few counter-counterpoints :)
You can imagine a credit card hacker can upgrade an account from trial to paid simply by using a stolen card. they then buy plexes with the same card. Thus they don't care about their "paid" account. They buy plex's and fast sell them for ISK. That ISK either is going to ISK sellers that now can simply offer ISK at even lower prices or that ISK is used by the hacker's main accounts after a careful ISK washing. Do not underestimate them.. if they can stole credit cards they can wash the ISK too.
My point is if the hacker that buys some Plex's with a stolen card has the time to sell them to other players ingame (honest buyers) then CCP loses just because those Plex's that they offered for nothing (due to chargeback) are used to pay for subscriptions. I truly hope CCP will not punish others for their mistakes.
Usually card chargebacks takes some time to "appear". The original owner of the card has no clue it's money is being used to make purchases on the net until the next monthly statement comes.
I don't know what are the discounts for GTC sellers but CCP is 100% safe selling to authorized resellers. I doubt they (CCP) are offering a refund for a GTC seller that gets scammed. Now thy're taking all the risk. As i've told you before and others also pointed, CCP DID offered game codes via email back in 2004, codes that could be purchased by credit cards. A very very similar system to the current one. They scrap it... guess why.
Now, maybe due to the global economics situation or who knows, they are taking some risks.
As for GTC resellers that are ISK sellers then i think they should simply not allow resellers from sites that also sell ISK. I know one can open two sites, a pretended GTC reselling site and an ISK selling site but that is a risk that a company must take. They can't just verify everything and their only alternative is to not have resellers at all.
Time will tell what will happen.
My honest opinion is that current system is a step BACK from transaction safety. Now hackers have a big target. A target that is way easier to scam then a small reselling company that has many security measures like phone calling, billing address verifying , etc. CCP's system has absolutely no verification requirement other then a simple IP matching that can be easily bypassed with a VPN account.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:22:00 -
[45]
From my reading of it, Akita, the "trend" of PLEX rising to 380-odd last week was fueled entirely by you and your PLEX-trading friends buying out the cheap ones and selling them at inflated prices. Looks to me like the volume traded increased significantly when the price returned to sane levels.
It's not the sellers who determine the ISK value of a PLEX, sad to say.
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.12 06:21:00 -
[46]
Ive said this elsewhere but it bears repeating
PLEX come from outside the game, and are consumed inside the game. the limit break with plexes are the total number of people who are actualy willing to fork over ISK for a plex to play the game for another 30 days, and how mutch isk they have to fork over. Its not like ships-modules-ammo and what have you that burns up Trit thus forceing everyone to directly or indirectly mine and produce. in fact by its very natue PLEXes are hostile to the existing market.
They are NOT a comodity. its literaly an avoidable tax. you want a PLEX then you have to divert ISK from what you want to buy ingame for the right to play for another month in game but not everyone wants to spend time mining/ratting/burning Datacores/selling ISK for PLEX when they could be doing the same to get an upgrade to their ship. some people thought that Datacores were being "produced" to pay for plexes. well It looks like the "Datacores are Free = Free PLEX LOL" argument(for now) is loosing
(thats not counting the people who honestly see their ISK ballance as the game score, that kind of person just is not going to shell out ISK for a plex card.)
Lets face it its $15 a month (or less) to play. and that is not realy that mutch for someone who wants to play in the US. its 2 hours work at my local Walmart after taxes for the stockers.
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.12 06:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Mara Rinn From my reading of it, Akita, the "trend" of PLEX rising to 380-odd last week was fueled entirely by you and your PLEX-trading friends buying out the cheap ones and selling them at inflated prices. Looks to me like the volume traded increased significantly when the price returned to sane levels.
It's not the sellers who determine the ISK value of a PLEX, sad to say.
thats the true Irony with plexes, you cant safely manipulate them in game for long because just like the duped moon minerals, all it takes is a few keystrokes to make two apear. they are not earned by in game actions or effort. and any effort to drive up the plex price just results in you telling the very people who are willing to spend RL$$$ for cash to toss 35 or more bucks into the pot to do so now!
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Coronae Borealis
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Posted - 2009.02.12 06:29:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sikozu Prioris OH LOL.
For us people in Europe it costs 35euros. Epic fail ccp. I'll stick with the $35 time cards and convert them thanks.
That's why you buy GTC from USA and transfer it to PLEX with aroudnd 26 euros.
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