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Barasu Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2009.02.05 06:53:00 - [1] I was to get into the small fast gangs with a amarr t2 frigate but I haven't used any before. I am leaning towards a crusader or Retribution. Those who fly em do you have any recommendations?
Grek Forto THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.05 07:28:00 - [2] The Retribution is a nice ship for gang PVP. Not for solo though since it lacks tackle. I don't know about the crusader.
Gram Hellfire Eyes of the Night B.L.A.C.K.	Posted - 2009.02.05 07:28:00 - [3] crusader was great when you could go 10km/s, but the malediction's better now for many uses(and looks wayyyy cooler) [Malediction, New Setup 3] Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Overdrive Injector System II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Gatling Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Gatling Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Gatling Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Auxiliary Thrusters I Auxiliary Thrusters I
Osiris Andras	Posted - 2009.02.05 08:42:00 - [4] hmm, I've only had a pve build for my crusader so can't talk much about it in gang but the malediction offers more utility in the tackle role that you will most likely have. The malediction looks better though. In classic its khannid green. In premium its a dark grey/green, sort of a dark gray with a hue of olive, like what the cov ops ships should look like.
Kirzath Amarr Sinister Elite	Posted - 2009.02.05 09:24:00 - [5] Crusader for small gang/solo, Malediction for larger fleets. Vengeance is fun too, can solo a Vagabond if fit right.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.05 10:26:00 - [6] Retribution = utter trash. One mid slot means it fails completely at doing the only thing you want to bring a frigate for, and it has nowhere near enough of an advantage in any other area to make up for this. Crusader = decent enough. All interceptors are pretty much equal at the moment (that is, equally throwaway tacklers and Warrior II food), but the Crusader does the job. As for the others, the Vengeance is a strong candidate for worst ship in the game, period, while the Malediction is pretty mediocre. -----------
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.05 10:57:00 - [7] The Retri is a great little ship in gangs, it will best any other frigate and will be a real problem to cruisers. I wouldnt take it out solo unless your in high/low sec space hunting soft things like mining barges and nub frigates/cruisers. The sader is also a good little ship, its still rather fast and its guns will reach out past the range of webbers/scramblers which is very important for your survival. However its firepower in on the light side so you will mainly be there to stop thing warping off
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.05 10:59:00 - [8] Originally by: baltec1 The Retri is a great little ship in gangs, it will best any other frigate and will be a real problem to cruisers. I wouldnt take it out solo unless your in high/low sec space hunting soft things like mining barges and nub frigates/cruisers. The problem is the only reason to fly a frigate in a gang is to tackle, and the Retribution can't tackle. If you want anti-frigate capability, an Ishkur, Harpy or Jaguar will do almost as well, but with the ability to tackle. If you want dps vs. cruisers, bring a cruiser, BC or BB and do it right. -----------
lljkDeathscythe Carebear Poachers plc	Posted - 2009.02.05 11:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Retribution = utter trash. One mid slot means it fails completely at doing the only thing you want to bring a frigate for, and it has nowhere near enough of an advantage in any other area to make up for this. Crusader = decent enough. All interceptors are pretty much equal at the moment (that is, equally throwaway tacklers and Warrior II food), but the Crusader does the job. As for the others, the Vengeance is a strong candidate for worst ship in the game, period, while the Malediction is pretty mediocre. Pretty much this really. Crusader is quite good, hasn't really been nerfed too bad if u never fit rigs on it. To be honest though, what kind of ******ed fool would even contemplate taking a frigate that cant tackle. The only frigate worth flying always has been and always will be the taranis. Frankly you'd be better off in a rifter than flying a retri or vengeance.
Maisonian	Posted - 2009.02.05 11:24:00 - [10] I fly almost all of the Amarrian T2 frigates, I have to say that for pure enjoyment the Crusader (inty), Malediction (inty), Purifier (stealth bomber) and even the Sentinel (EWAR) have to be top of the list. Specifically towards the OP, the Crudaser is an excelent interceptor but make sure that it is cap stable. This can be a little tricky on an intreceptor because, unlike other races, the weaponry requires above average cap which is a very bad thing if trying to perma-run an MWD. Here's the setup I like to use currently. Crusader setup (cap stable) Lows - Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Overdrive Injector System II Capacitor Power Relay II Meds - 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Highs - Dual Light Pulse Laser II,Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II,Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II,Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II,Scorch S I find this does pretty well, stable at 34% with all modules running. Obviously this will be subjective to your skills but feel free to swap out the tracking enhancer for another CPR II. The Retribution is NOT a useless frigate despite what people say. Getting introduced to the hot end of one usually results in going home in your pod, simply because of the sheer firepower this ship can lay down. Having 2 mids would simply make this ship overpowered - it's 'key' role is in gang combat where you can let the tacklers do their job. Just for refrence, flying one in a small frig group of mixed inties and AFs we came across a ratting raven (in 0.0). The ships failed to break the tank untill the Retri was added to the equation. Essentially, its got awesome firepower and tanking ability, giving it tackle would be madness. If however you prefer the style of AFs, try the Vengance but DO NOT fit rockets, theyre next to uselss. Fit either T2 pulse and maybe some cap-warfare and enjoy the freedom of 3 mid slots =)
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.05 12:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: baltec1 The Retri is a great little ship in gangs, it will best any other frigate and will be a real problem to cruisers. I wouldnt take it out solo unless your in high/low sec space hunting soft things like mining barges and nub frigates/cruisers. The problem is the only reason to fly a frigate in a gang is to tackle, and the Retribution can't tackle. If you want anti-frigate capability, an Ishkur, Harpy or Jaguar will do almost as well, but with the ability to tackle. If you want dps vs. cruisers, bring a cruiser, BC or BB and do it right. Retri will wipe out all other AF and its the better choice than a cruiser because of its size and speed makes it better against the larger guns. You dont need to tackle if every other frigate is doing that.
lljkDeathscythe Carebear Poachers plc	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:01:00 - [12] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: baltec1 The Retri is a great little ship in gangs, it will best any other frigate and will be a real problem to cruisers. I wouldnt take it out solo unless your in high/low sec space hunting soft things like mining barges and nub frigates/cruisers. The problem is the only reason to fly a frigate in a gang is to tackle, and the Retribution can't tackle. If you want anti-frigate capability, an Ishkur, Harpy or Jaguar will do almost as well, but with the ability to tackle. If you want dps vs. cruisers, bring a cruiser, BC or BB and do it right. Retri will wipe out all other AF and its the better choice than a cruiser because of its size and speed makes it better against the larger guns. You dont need to tackle if every other frigate is doing that. I think you will find that wolf and enyo would destroy a retri in 1v1 combat and have a 2nd midslot for scram. And cruisers are a fast gang, i cant imagine why u would take eg. a retri instead of arbitrator or rupture or any other t1 cruiser for that matter.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:04:00 - [13] Originally by: lljkDeathscythe I think you will find that wolf and enyo would destroy a retri in 1v1 combat and have a 2nd midslot for scram. And cruisers are a fast gang, i cant imagine why u would take eg. a retri instead of arbitrator or rupture or any other t1 cruiser for that matter. Because I enjoy flying them and have yet to die to another AF in 1v1 combat?
lljkDeathscythe Carebear Poachers plc	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:07:00 - [14] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: lljkDeathscythe I think you will find that wolf and enyo would destroy a retri in 1v1 combat and have a 2nd midslot for scram. And cruisers are a fast gang, i cant imagine why u would take eg. a retri instead of arbitrator or rupture or any other t1 cruiser for that matter. Because I enjoy flying them and have yet to die to another AF in 1v1 combat? So have I, but thats cos only noobs fly AFs
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: baltec1 The Retri is a great little ship in gangs, it will best any other frigate and will be a real problem to cruisers. I wouldnt take it out solo unless your in high/low sec space hunting soft things like mining barges and nub frigates/cruisers. The problem is the only reason to fly a frigate in a gang is to tackle, and the Retribution can't tackle. If you want anti-frigate capability, an Ishkur, Harpy or Jaguar will do almost as well, but with the ability to tackle. If you want dps vs. cruisers, bring a cruiser, BC or BB and do it right. You are right. There is one more factior as well, the lol factor :P. Some find it funny to kill big things in small things. But from a tactic point, you are right ^^. A fun thing tho is that I manage to whoop Jags in my Rifter pretty easy :P, so I htink Rifters do a good job as anti frig support, and as a tackler if fit right.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:27:00 - [16] Edited by: baltec1 on 05/02/2009 13:32:03 Originally by: lljkDeathscythe So have I, but thats cos only noobs fly AFs Noobs fly everything (including some alliences of late), hence why I still fly small ships.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:46:00 - [17] consider the Sentinel. decent dps and ewar (neuts/tracking disruptors) --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.05 13:49:00 - [18] Both of the Assault Frigates are awesome in gangs. Retribution due to huge range envelope with above average damage. The Vengeance (with blasters) for the unsurpassed tackling .. latch onto a hostile and never let go! Crusader or Malediction with scrambler to shut down MWDs owns every other interceptor in game, largely due to scorch range. Minnie interceptors can be a hassle but still fairly rare in the large scheme of things. For gang support the Sentinel is uber, will gimp ANY turret ship with TDs and apply its power of suck to all cruisers and below.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.05 14:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Hugh Ruka consider the Sentinel. decent dps and ewar (neuts/tracking disruptors) I am I always looked at that ship on EFT and thought it wasnt worth it but lately I have been looking at it longingly as a frigate fleet support ship.
Braedun	Posted - 2009.02.05 23:48:00 - [20] Hey guys what would u use for a set up on a retri"?
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.06 00:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Maisonian The Retribution is NOT a useless frigate despite what people say. Getting introduced to the hot end of one usually results in going home in your pod, simply because of the sheer firepower this ship can lay down. Having 2 mids would simply make this ship overpowered - it's 'key' role is in gang combat where you can let the tacklers do their job. Just for refrence, flying one in a small frig group of mixed inties and AFs we came across a ratting raven (in 0.0). The ships failed to break the tank untill the Retri was added to the equation. Essentially, its got awesome firepower and tanking ability, giving it tackle would be madness So, uh, you killed a ratting Raven, and you needed a small gang to do it. This is hardly an amazing argument for the Retribution... Hint: compare the dps of the Retribution to the other gank fit AFs and cry. Even ignoring the stupidity of limiting yourself to a frigate-only gang, the Retribution isn't even the best dps frigate. Originally by: Braedun Hey guys what would u use for a set up on a retri"? Something like this: [Retribution, onlythingit'sgoodfor] Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Cargo Scanner II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Salvager I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] -----------
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.06 00:26:00 - [22] The retribution isn't so much a frigate as it is a destroyer, and the coercer is a pretty damn good destroyer. It's got a lot of the damage of the coercer (41.25 = 5, 8 / 1.25 = 6.4), as much range, though less tracking, and a lot better fitting. It's also faster, much more durable, and locks quicker. It doesn't do as much raw DPS as the enyo or ishkur... but the Zealot doesn't do as much raw DPS as the Deimos, and the Zealot's not bad, is it? Fit pulses, load scorch, fit some damage and tracking mods on it. Quote:* [Retribution, mini zealot <3] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Small Armor Repairer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II 1MN Afterburner II Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Small Nosferatu I /OFFLINE Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Algid Energy Administrations Unit I Energy Burst Aerator I 180+ dps out to 20km optimal. Don't try to 1v1 with it. Pick off ceptors, frigs, other assault ships, destroyers, ECM drones, whatever. Load multifreq and get over 220 dps which, while not great, is a lot while keeping the agility and size advantage of a frigate. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.02.06 00:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Braedun Hey guys what would u use for a set up on a retri"? Something like this: [Retribution, onlythingit'sgoodfor] More seriously, something like this: Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer Adaptive Nano Plating II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner Medium Pulse Laser II Medium Pulse Laser II Medium Pulse Laser II Medium Pulse Laser II Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
Razr Edj	Posted - 2009.02.06 20:37:00 - [24] Edited by: Razr Edj on 06/02/2009 20:37:24 Best fitting for the Retribution: Highs: 1x Focused Medium Beam Laser II 2x Small Nosferatu II Mid: 1MN AB Lows: 2x MAPC 3x RCU II Rigs: 2x Ancillary Current Router II
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers	Posted - 2009.02.06 21:23:00 - [25] A couple Sentinels in a roaming 'ceptor fleet can be awesome especially when you catch something like a battleship or BC alone in an asteroid belt. The bonused tracking disruptors go a long way to rendering the target helpless, and the neutralizers will greatly help you break its tank before its friends arrive. .............
Misaniovent Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.02.06 21:43:00 - [26] The Retribution is a nice ship, but is unfortunately only suited for PVP. The Crusader is nice, however, and the tracking bonus makes it nice in dogfights. Another fun ship to check out is the Sentinel. It is fairly quick, and can really end an interceptor's day.
VoiceInTheDesert Diplomatic Disruption Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.06 22:00:00 - [27] Retri is not a good ship. It gives up either tackle or speed, neither of which is acceptable for an AF, especially solo. I fought a retri pilot recently and as soon as I remembered that they have good exp res (90%) and switched to hobs, I ate it for breakfast in my ishkur. The disturbing part of this encounter (from the retri's perspective) is that I shot at it for about 2 minutes with Warrior IIs before I switched to hobs and ended the fight a short time later. This means the retri couldn't break my tank with 5 high slots in 2 minutes. That's upsetting. If you want an AF, the veng is actually not terrible if you fit it with lazorz. Don't use rockets, they are rubbish. Malediction is sweet, but as many have pointed out, they and all other inty's are warrior food at this point. Sentinel is good too and probably the #2 Ewar Frig at this point (behind the kitsune), but be warned that Hammerheads can and will hit them and kill them (I've killed one this way to both my and the other pilot's surprise).
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.06 22:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Terianna Eri 180+ dps out to 20km optimal. Don't try to 1v1 with it. Pick off ceptors, frigs, other assault ships, destroyers, ECM drones, whatever. Load multifreq and get over 220 dps which, while not great, is a lot while keeping the agility and size advantage of a frigate. The problem here is that the Ishkur, Harpy or Jaguar can do the anti-frigate role almost as well, but can also tackle at the same time. -----------
Jack Jombardo Amarr Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.02.06 23:20:00 - [29] Originally by: Misaniovent The Retribution is a nice ship, but is unfortunately only suited for PVP. It makes a great Sansha ratting ship too and level 2th are super easy with a Retri. Centi C-Type SAR, EM- and Therm-Platings (passive once) for tank 2 HS II AB 4MPulse II 2speed rigs 200 to 230 DPS close range Made about 4,5m ISK peer 20 min with this fitting while ratting :) - 1 HS II + 1 grid mod 4*MBeam II up to 50 KM OPTI and still over 100 DPS used this for level 2 grinding. Warp in, log, sniper, mission done :)
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.02.06 23:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Terianna Eri 180+ dps out to 20km optimal. Don't try to 1v1 with it. Pick off ceptors, frigs, other assault ships, destroyers, ECM drones, whatever. Load multifreq and get over 220 dps which, while not great, is a lot while keeping the agility and size advantage of a frigate. The problem here is that the Ishkur, Harpy or Jaguar can do the anti-frigate role almost as well, but can also tackle at the same time. It's true, but the ishkur has delayed damage (albeit slightly) with drones, the harpy has less damage (though more range), and the jaguar has has less damage and range though is much faster and tackles better. Admittedly, all three of those are great ships. The other AFs are basically beefed-up ceptors; the Retribution is, as I said, basically a destroyer and it does that job pretty well. 180 dps at 20km with frig tracking is handy. Unfortunately any fleet big enough that you can afford to have a frigate without a point is probably large enough to bring something larger than a frigate (or a destroyer) anyway... but that's not the Retribution's fault

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