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[Issue] Remove the alliance I WIN/I LOSE button

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Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2009.02.06 07:40:00 - [31] I never knew that an alliance could just be disbanded like that. I'm surprised that the capability to disband an alliance can lie with one person. Seems to me that an alliance shouldn't be disbanded unless all of the member corporations leave, much like closing a corporation. It is active until it is empty.
Ghaelsto Kakram Mindgamers	Posted - 2009.02.06 14:55:00 - [32] Stupidity > game mechanics. Don't give people roles they do not need.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.02.06 15:49:00 - [33] /me thumbs down You reap what you sow. If your not smart enough to make sure your alliance is strong healthy and happy... don't expect it to last. Countries have fallen over night.... no one said the member states would be left alone now did they? What you propose would change nothing... just delay the inevitable. No support.... works as intended. It's just a Corporate sabotage on a Macro-scale.... you pick a stupid ceo... you get a stupid event. Same goes for directors and what not. And sorry to say... this screams bias towards what took place... stop crying over it here...we got better things to do.... if anything its disrupted the status quo and now things are getting a bit exciting in 0.0. Why the hell not... I welcome the change... course I would have prefered a slightly different outcome.. but oh well.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.06 15:52:00 - [34] Originally by: Nnamuachs I didnt say you were emoragequitting, just said those are the two options. If i havent given a reason for why its a good mechanic, in that same stance you havent given a reason for why its a bad mechanic... And if you consider what you listed as reasons for a bad mechanic then those in the same breath can be used as reasons for why its a good mechanic. One man with the power to screw over alot of people... puts alot of stuff in perspective doesnt it? As for your comment on the whim of one person... that really is what eve boils down to.. i could be suicide ganked on the whim of another player... wardecced, decieved, scammed etc.. all at the whim of one person... it doesnt change as you go up or down the ladder... 1 person always has the power to destroy the many in one form or another.. its a mechanic of persistence, applicable to many situations, not just one. I think its a bit exciting to know that someone could go ballistic in my alliance and screw everyone over... thats why i keep my stuff in NPC stations Look...this is a game. As a game it is supposed to have sensible and fair rules. Not "fair" in that no one can ever get you (one way or another) but "fair" in that you have the ability to protect yourself, to turn the tables and so on. Imagine the World Cup/Superbowl is taking place and the team captain on one team, ****ed off because the coach chewed him out, forfeits the game. His choice...not a damn thing anyone else can do about it, take your ball and go home. You'd be ok with that? You think that makes sense somehow? This is an "Alliance". You simply must consider the scale and scope of what that means. It is not emptying out one corp hangar of all their ships. It is not turning off the cyno jammer to one system. It is not ganking one ship. You are affecting literally thousands of people in a profound manner because one person decides it is a good idea. It is not game balance when you have no recourse, no protection. It wouldn't be if it was just you and me and it especially isn't when it is thousands who get the rug yanked out from under them and not a damn thing to be done about it.
Miner Nine Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.02.07 10:59:00 - [35] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Look...this is a game. As a game it is supposed to have sensible and fair rules. Not "fair" in that no one can ever get you (one way or another) but "fair" in that you have the ability to protect yourself, to turn the tables and so on. Imagine the World Cup/Superbowl is taking place and the team captain on one team, ****ed off because the coach chewed him out, forfeits the game. His choice...not a damn thing anyone else can do about it, take your ball and go home. You'd be ok with that? You think that makes sense somehow? This is an "Alliance". You simply must consider the scale and scope of what that means. It is not emptying out one corp hangar of all their ships. It is not turning off the cyno jammer to one system. It is not ganking one ship. You are affecting literally thousands of people in a profound manner because one person decides it is a good idea. It is not game balance when you have no recourse, no protection. It wouldn't be if it was just you and me and it especially isn't when it is thousands who get the rug yanked out from under them and not a damn thing to be done about it. Eggs Bread Toliet paper Socks Socks Socks Beer Oh, sorry. I was out of paper and was making my grocery list. I have to agree with this dude. Directors should not be allow to kick corps, nor should CEO be alow to kick corps. It must be voted upon. Also, Directors should not be allow to kick members, nor should CEO be allow to kick members. It must be voted upon. Also, random people shouldn't be appointed as Directors. It must be voted upon. Also, random people shouldn't be able to start Corps. It must be voted upon. Also, you shouldn't be allow to post. It must be voted upon. EVERYTHING MUST BE A VOTED UPON!
Brick Hampton Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.02.07 11:00:00 - [36] I do believe this was an oversight by cpp.
Farinet	Posted - 2009.02.07 11:15:00 - [37]
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:42:00 - [38] A single director can not force a corp to war, but disband an entire alliance? Bad game design.
Saralle Zhukov Win Tech	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:58:00 - [39] Already expressed my reasons in another thread. Supported.
Fahtim Meidires Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:23:00 - [40] Edited by: Fahtim Meidires on 09/02/2009 16:26:19 What if I want the ability to disband MY alliance. Imagine if I am alone in my own corp as CEO, and my corp is the executor or MY alliance. The alliance was formed under me and I am king. Do I not have every right to kick corps from MY ALLIANCE, then close it myself? Too much power? Maybe. But what I created the alliance myself. I'd argue that I alone have the right to control the status of my organization and can disband it as I please. CCP should examine other forms of Alliance organization other than executor control (high council, democracy, etc.) without removing but rather including the option of the current dictatorship model. For example: Types of Factions NPC Faction (amarr, caldari, etc.) Player Alliance Player Empire Player Federation Player Democracy Player Tribe Each with their own mechanics that govern power structures so that players have CHOICES instead of being forced to work around "FIXES".

Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:34:00 - [41] Originally by: Fahtim Meidires Edited by: Fahtim Meidires on 09/02/2009 16:26:19 What if I want the ability to disband MY alliance. Imagine if I am alone in my own corp as CEO, and my corp is the executor or MY alliance. The alliance was formed under me and I am king. Do I not have every right to kick corps from MY ALLIANCE, then close it myself? Sure. You should just have to wait 24 hours and if no other Director cancels it then you are fine. In this case there is no other Director so that's that. Sorry if waiting 24 hours seems a pain but you made an Alliance...you can deal with that hassle and is no worse than a lot of other things we have to wait for in EVE.
Ryuga VonRhaiden Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.16 13:50:00 - [42] Originally by: Thann Starlinbow Should treat your directors better and/or not put ultimate authority in the hands of someone you don't know if you can trust or not, maybe? Seems like sound practice to me. that kind of authority comes "for free"... there is no "kick alliance members/disband alliance" role you can remove and detach from usual corp management directorship AFAIK... Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature.
NereSky Domination. Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.16 13:59:00 - [43] Agreed A Alliance of Corperations flying under one flag should not be dissolved under the power of one person it should take a vote from every CEO of every corperation within that Alliance, A complete re-working of Alliance/CEO powers should be relooked at.
Anna Kommenos	Posted - 2009.02.16 19:39:00 - [44] Originally by: SpaceSlag This thread has ONLY to do with mechanics of the game. No one person in the alliance, whether or not it's the founder of the Alliance, the CEO of the executor corp, or some random director in the alliance should EVER have that much power to completely erase 4 years of thousands of player's hard work in one fail swoop that takes 30 seconds. i disagree, firstly i would suggest that these comments are out of fear, not out of disagreement with the mechanism itself. i would also suggest that this mechanism, however flawed, is one of the best things that has happened in eve. it forces people in alliances to remember to be careful who they trust, and also not to pss off the directors, cos they can screw your whole game over. put basically, if the players and directors in TAFKAB had treated eachother a little more decently, this director guy wouldnt have emoraged the alliance right down to the 9nth circle of hell. god knows it might just teach people the fact that just cos theres an internet between them and other people it doesnt mean they can be dckheads.....
Torain	Posted - 2009.02.16 23:34:00 - [45] Originally by: Fahtim Meidires Edited by: Fahtim Meidires on 09/02/2009 16:26:19 What if I want the ability to disband MY alliance. Imagine if I am alone in my own corp as CEO, and my corp is the executor or MY alliance. The alliance was formed under me and I am king. Do I not have every right to kick corps from MY ALLIANCE, then close it myself? Too much power? Maybe. But what I created the alliance myself. I'd argue that I alone have the right to control the status of my organization and can disband it as I please. CCP should examine other forms of Alliance organization other than executor control (high council, democracy, etc.) without removing but rather including the option of the current dictatorship model. For example: Types of Factions NPC Faction (amarr, caldari, etc.) Player Alliance Player Empire Player Federation Player Democracy Player Tribe Each with their own mechanics that govern power structures so that players have CHOICES instead of being forced to work around "FIXES". This Every type of government would have benefits as well as drawbacks. One of those drawbacks of course being the result we're faced with now.
Trebor Notlimah Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2009.02.17 00:51:00 - [46] With the whole bob deal aside -- its a broken mechanic that needs fixing. 1000's of peoples in an organization shouldnt be dissolved with the dissolved with the posh of a button.
Mirei Jun Right to Rule FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.02.17 04:45:00 - [47] I completely agree. This sort of thing is what the CSM is suppose to be all about. Eve's entire "end game" (as defined by CCP) has been ignored for far too long. Alliance mechanics, POS warfar, titans... all this and much more needs to be addressed. I am pleased to see that many pf the CSM delegates have this at the top of their agendas. Remember, don't let some scandal or bug uncovered by CCP distract you from your cause.
Lady Alystra Amarr Big Bong Quantum Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2009.02.18 14:11:00 - [48] Although I support making disbanding an alliance harder, I do not think that all CEOs should have to agree before an alliance is disbanded. There is a reason there is an executor corp. I do however think that it should be harder to disband an alliance than just pressing a button. The CEO of the executor corp should be the only person able to disband an alliance. Because we DGAF! ... and you can DGAF too. DGAF recruitment thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=471457
GATORAN Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors	Posted - 2009.02.19 04:22:00 - [49] I agree. While I hold no personal stake or ties to KenZoku (formerly: Band of Brothers), in of itself the principle that 1 director from 1 corp can disband an entire alliance containing whichever amount of corps/people, at the whim of 1 instant button push, is a bit silly. You may argue one way or the other about treating your high-ranked officers properly so that such a thing doesn't occur, but really that's not the point. It really is completely irrelevant whether or not you genuinely mistreated a director in a corporation, they still shouldn't be able to have such a massive impact on an alliance structure like that. It also doesn't matter that this has happened before. This is the first time it has been really highlighted because it was such a massive event. So the fact that it didn't happen before, is irrelevant..the point is that it shouldn't be possible, and now a lot of people (myself included) know that it's possible. I will repeat for the sake of marking it down. It does not matter what happened, who did what to who, who said what nor what happened beforehand. The point is that it should be changed, because it really is terribly silly that 1 person can, without votes, disband an entire alliance regardless of what the OTHER DIRECTORS want, what the OTHER CORPORATIONS want, CEO's, shareholders and so forth, want. This has NOTHING to do with picking sides between goons and kenzoku, this is about a game mechanic that affects everyone, and I genuinely hope people will treat it as such.
Darwin's Market	Posted - 2009.02.19 13:57:00 - [50] Not a single person from the affected alliance has supported this thread, so even they think it was alright. You really don't have to worry about your no-name alliance being the victim of this even if you post your account information here.

Sovereign533 The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.02.19 14:16:00 - [51] the fact it is even possible is horrible =\ imagine it happenes to your own alliance =s *Your signature file has been removed for the inclusion of inappropriate language. -- Fallout 3
GATORAN Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors	Posted - 2009.02.19 19:10:00 - [52] Originally by: Darwin's Market Not a single person from the affected alliance has supported this thread, so even they think it was alright. You really don't have to worry about your no-name alliance being the victim of this even if you post your account information here. Obviously you didn't read my post. This has nothing to do with KenZoku, nor Goonswarm - This has to do with the game mechanic that makes it possible in the first place to disband an alliance at the click of a button. This has nothing to do with how famous your alliance is, or how special you think your own personal alliance is. I know you're an alt character from one of these alliances, or at least support one of them, and thats fine, but honestly I have little to no use of what your alliance thinks or feels about this. This is about the actual mechanic, simple as that.
Darwin's Market	Posted - 2009.02.20 03:34:00 - [53] Originally by: GATORAN Originally by: Darwin's Market Not a single person from the affected alliance has supported this thread, so even they think it was alright. You really don't have to worry about your no-name alliance being the victim of this even if you post your account information here. Obviously you didn't read my post. This has nothing to do with KenZoku, nor Goonswarm - This has to do with the game mechanic that makes it possible in the first place to disband an alliance at the click of a button. This has nothing to do with how famous your alliance is, or how special you think your own personal alliance is. I know you're an alt character from one of these alliances, or at least support one of them, and thats fine, but honestly I have little to no use of what your alliance thinks or feels about this. This is about the actual mechanic, simple as that. Obviously you didn't read my post, there is no problem with this mechanic.
Nnamuachs Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:08:00 - [54] Originally by: Darwin's Market Originally by: GATORAN Originally by: Darwin's Market Not a single person from the affected alliance has supported this thread, so even they think it was alright. You really don't have to worry about your no-name alliance being the victim of this even if you post your account information here. Obviously you didn't read my post. This has nothing to do with KenZoku, nor Goonswarm - This has to do with the game mechanic that makes it possible in the first place to disband an alliance at the click of a button. This has nothing to do with how famous your alliance is, or how special you think your own personal alliance is. I know you're an alt character from one of these alliances, or at least support one of them, and thats fine, but honestly I have little to no use of what your alliance thinks or feels about this. This is about the actual mechanic, simple as that. Obviously you didn't read my post, there is no problem with this mechanic. I'd have to agree here, maybe not with the justification even though it is a bit valid... largest alliance in the game gets this used on em and doesnt complain about it, i dont think anyone else has a right to do so either. But yeah, executor corp works exactly like CEO of a standard corporation, ultimate authority, no wait period to remove members (unless they have roles).
GATORAN Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors	Posted - 2009.02.20 22:00:00 - [55] Originally by: Nnamuachs Originally by: Darwin's Market Originally by: GATORAN Originally by: Darwin's Market Not a single person from the affected alliance has supported this thread, so even they think it was alright. You really don't have to worry about your no-name alliance being the victim of this even if you post your account information here. Obviously you didn't read my post. This has nothing to do with KenZoku, nor Goonswarm - This has to do with the game mechanic that makes it possible in the first place to disband an alliance at the click of a button. This has nothing to do with how famous your alliance is, or how special you think your own personal alliance is. I know you're an alt character from one of these alliances, or at least support one of them, and thats fine, but honestly I have little to no use of what your alliance thinks or feels about this. This is about the actual mechanic, simple as that. Obviously you didn't read my post, there is no problem with this mechanic. I'd have to agree here, maybe not with the justification even though it is a bit valid... largest alliance in the game gets this used on em and doesnt complain about it, i dont think anyone else has a right to do so either. But yeah, executor corp works exactly like CEO of a standard corporation, ultimate authority, no wait period to remove members (unless they have roles). What??? First of all it was a director that did it, not a CEO. Secondly, I dont give a pair of flying dingo's kidneys that some random big alliance didn't complain about it. It has absolutely no bearing on what I think. What I think is that it's a broken mechanic that I'd like to see changed Third of all, you may not think the mechanic is broken, but I do..
FDIC Agent	Posted - 2009.03.04 10:09:00 - [56] Yeah, this is a broken mechanic. I mean aside from Hargaflemstickwhatever (forgot his name already) disbanding bob in couple mouse clicks. There should something done. Even if a CEO wants to step down he has to name a new CEO. I am not sure what should happen but a director should not be able to some crazy stuff like that. I wonder how many alliances did some house cleaning on who are directors of their holding corps after this...
Trygonus	Posted - 2009.03.05 09:15:00 - [57]
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.03.05 10:37:00 - [58] Lots of thing in EVE have a stasis period and some are more needed/logical than others but THIS should certainly have such a cooldown period. It's just not logical to not have it in place. Self-proclaimed idiot
Orb Vex R.U.R.	Posted - 2009.03.05 13:01:00 - [59] Edited by: Orb Vex on 05/03/2009 13:05:26 I dont support this because of BoB but because of unbalanced mechanics.
Reynolds Third Return Inc. Blue Sun Trust	Posted - 2009.03.05 16:04:00 - [60] Edited by: Reynolds on 05/03/2009 16:04:19 Broken Mechanic needs fixing, should have at least a 24 hour timer and automatic post in alliance mail Edit helps if I tick the support box



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