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Abundant Cachet	Posted - 2009.02.10 09:41:00 - [1] I've heard it said and argued many times that tractor beams do not work on wrecks, and that putting more than one salvager on a wreck doesn't enhance salvaging of that wreck in any way. Yet tonight I read in the Player's Guide here on this site that tractor beams DO work on wrecks, and that the more salvagers you focus on a wreck, the greater your chances of salvaging. Is the Guide correct, can you use tractor beams on wrecks, and does placing more than one salvager on a wreck enhance the salvaging? Thanks,
Snasty Caldari The Hippies House of Mercury	Posted - 2009.02.10 10:46:00 - [2] Originally by: Abundant Cachet Is the Guide correct, can you use tractor beams on wrecks, and does placing more than one salvager on a wreck enhance the salvaging? The guide is indeed correct. You can tractor your own wrecks, placing more then one salvager does increase your chance of sucess, indeed 2 salvagers doubles it, 3 is 3 times better, etc.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.10 10:56:00 - [3] Originally by: Abundant Cachet I've heard it said and argued many times that tractor beams do not work on wrecks Tractor beams DO work on wrecks, but only YOUR wrecks (or wrecks created by people in your fleet). MULTIPLE tractor beams don't work better than one (actually, you shouldn't be able to use more than one on any wreck/can, but under abnormal circumstances you can). Quote: and that putting more than one salvager on a wreck doesn't enhance salvaging of that wreck in any way Result of salvage, no, that's not affected, you always get the same stuff. TIME until salvage however is shorter on average, since you almost always need more than just one salvager cycle to salvage a wreck, and multiple salvagers means more chances per cycle, so less time needed overall.
Abundant Cachet	Posted - 2009.02.10 15:37:00 - [4] Very nice to know. Thanks guys, now that we're doing L3 missions I think I'll buy a Thrasher and start outfitting it as a dedicated salvage ship.
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.10 22:00:00 - [5] From everything I have read ove the past 18 months on these forums - No you dont "Increase" your chances by increasing the number of slavagers. Each salvager has a flat chance - ie your skill and the type of wreck may be a 20% chance (for example). Each salvager has the SAME 20% chance - but by using 5 salvagers, chances are that one of them WILL hit the magic number during their first cycle. Of course you may not hit it at all, but thats just the chance you have to take... Tractor Beams - Yes, you can tractor your own wrecks but never other peoples. So having a "salvage Destroyer" is good for missions with a lot of ships - you can come back in the destroyer and salvage everything relatively quickly whilst tractoring everything within 20KM's.... Hope that helps. Regards, Jason Brisbane
Strom Nekth	Posted - 2009.02.11 00:05:00 - [6] Yes you can tractor your own wrecks but not other people's (defined by people not in your fleet). It's generally better to salvage several wrecks simultaneously (targetting restrictions aside) than to target one wreck with multiple salvagers. However if you only have one wreck to salvage then put all your salvagers on it as it reduces the chance that you'll have to spend lots of cycles until you get the salvage. For example if you target 3 salvagers at one wreck then as soon as one of them is successfull then you get the salvage (and the others finish their cycle looking at empty space). Having 2 salvagers succeed in one cycle just salvages one wreck. However if you have three wrecks and target each one with one of your salvagers then you can theoretically salvage all of the wrecks in one cycle. Having 2 salvagers succeed salvages 2 wrecks.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2009.02.11 00:18:00 - [7] Also note that using a Golem (or other Marauder) for salvaging helps a lot. It may seem as if a doubled tractor beam range, from 20km to 40 km, doesn't do much, but in fact it increases the space volume from which you can tractor in wrecks by a factor of eight. That's a lot more salvaging done, and a lot easier. -- Salpad
Abundant Cachet	Posted - 2009.02.11 15:47:00 - [8] Well, I outfitted my Thrasher with 4 Salvagers and 1 Tractor Beam and it makes a world of difference in my salvaging efficiency. Day and night. But I'm confused still about a couple of things stated in this thread. Although it was suggested that putting all my salvagers on one wreck is potentially wasteful of successes, it seems to me that this fact must be balanced by the increased time efficiency of discarding wasted failures. In other words, successful salvaging is happening faster. MUCH FASTER. I am getting success after a maximum of two cycles. So that means I move through wrecks much faster (which really was the original goal). And here's another, purely anecdotal, observation. On my very first attempt of 4 on one, I got 4 items, two of which were Armor Plates. My experience throughout the night was almost as dramatic. In other words, it seems that I'm getting better results, or finding more salvage, as a result of putting more on the wreck. How certain are we that there is no enhancement of the chance to find something on a wreck by having more salvaging units on it? Did I just get lucky, or is there something to this? Thanks
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:48:00 - [9] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 11/02/2009 16:49:36 Originally by: Abundant Cachet Well, I outfitted my Thrasher with 4 Salvagers and 1 Tractor Beam and it makes a world of difference in my salvaging efficiency. Day and night. But I'm confused still about a couple of things stated in this thread. Although it was suggested that putting all my salvagers on one wreck is potentially wasteful of successes, it seems to me that this fact must be balanced by the increased time efficiency of discarding wasted failures. In other words, successful salvaging is happening faster. MUCH FASTER. I am getting success after a maximum of two cycles. So that means I move through wrecks much faster (which really was the original goal). And here's another, purely anecdotal, observation. On my very first attempt of 4 on one, I got 4 items, two of which were Armor Plates. My experience throughout the night was almost as dramatic. In other words, it seems that I'm getting better results, or finding more salvage, as a result of putting more on the wreck. How certain are we that there is no enhancement of the chance to find something on a wreck by having more salvaging units on it? Did I just get lucky, or is there something to this? Thanks You might want to go with at least 2 Tractor beams for better efficiency. An ideal loot monkey ship are Destroyers with 8 high slots or, if you are feeling wealthy, pimp a BC (like a Hurricane) and use 4x4 or 5x3 salavger/tractor setup. Slap a 100mn AB on there, all cargo expanders low and put salvage rigs on it. You will be in salvager heaven as the BC has a bigger cargo hold and can clear most L4 missions in one go. Expensive yes but if you salvage a lot worthwhile. More salvagers on a wreck decreases the time it takes to salvage the wreck. Each salvager has a percentage chance of successfully salvaging a wreck each cycle. So (as mentioned above) if you have (say) a 20% chance of success to salvage it will generally take multiple tries to get a successful salvage. If you have four salvagers running each one has a 20% chance of success. If you do the math that works out to about a 60% chance (yes 60% and not 80%...how probabilities add up) of success per cycle of all four. In short, you salvage faster. As for the salvage itself nothing you do affects that. The game determines what loot/salvage there is independant of anything you do off its loot tables. You get no more or less salvage via better skills or modules. All you can be is faster for this. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
KaarBaak	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 11/02/2009 16:49:36 As for the salvage itself nothing you do affects that. The game determines what loot/salvage there is independant of anything you do off its loot tables. You get no more or less salvage via better skills or modules. All you can be is faster for this. There were a couple of debates on this topic last night in-game. Is this documented or anecdotal? The two opposing views were the "salvagable material (presence and type) is determined when wreck is created" vs "salvagable material is determined by salvagers and rnd() roll." When is the roll against the salvaging loot table made? At ship destruction? If that's the case, then the only thing skill, mult salvagers and rigs affect is time? The debate started with discussion about skills and how they affect salvaging. The consensus seemed to be that higher salvage skill works the same as multiple salvagers...just decreases time to complete salvage operation. Then you add rigs to the mix...is that just another speed-up? KB I run a 4x4x3 tractor/salvager/rig. It definitely makes cleaning up the battlefield quicker. KB
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.11 19:05:00 - [11] Originally by: KaarBaak There were a couple of debates on this topic last night in-game. Is this documented or anecdotal? The two opposing views were the "salvagable material (presence and type) is determined when wreck is created" vs "salvagable material is determined by salvagers and rnd() roll." When is the roll against the salvaging loot table made? At ship destruction? If that's the case, then the only thing skill, mult salvagers and rigs affect is time? Anecdotal with some logic thrown in. I have never seen anyone notice better loot with more skills in salvage. Some kinda think they see it but nothing overt and certainly nothing to be sure of. "When" what loot is there does not really matter. It happens on wreck creation or when the salvager is successful (I would think it happens when the salvager is successful...why make the server work on lookups if no one salvages/loots the wreck?). More salvagers makes no difference since only one is ever successful. At that point it does a lookup and either it is based off the rat type or it is based off rat type + a calculation based on your skills + (maybe) how quickly you salvage the wreck. I cannot imagine CCP going ot the extra trouble to balance that and add to the work the server does rather than a simple lookup. Also, none of our skill descriptions suggests you get better loot with better skills or faster looting. Why would they hide that detail? In the end I have to go with Occam's Razor till someone proves differently and assume the simpler answer is the right one. The loot is set based on the type of rat and a random roll on the appropriate loot table. Your skills do not affect it. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.11 19:36:00 - [12] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 11/02/2009 19:36:55 nm -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2009.02.11 22:39:00 - [13] The following quoates are from the Official EVE Guide: Salvaging_(Guide) 1) "The amount of Salvage and which components you receive are calculated based on percentages pre-defined into the Wreck." So - NO - the number of Salvagers does NOT change the amount of salvage you get. The number of Salvagers on a wreck is like rolling more dice. Say you have to get a 1 to do something. Having 4 salvagers is like rolling 4 dice. They could all come up with a 1 or none of them. If you have multiple targets you should put one salvager on each until you have more salvagers than targets locked. Even then, it is sometimes more efficient to only use one Salvager per wreck as the more salvagers that are in use at any one time increases the amout of Cap you are using. If you drain your cap, you will have to stop salvaging all together. 2) "The skill will increase the chance of successfully Salvaging from a Wreck by 5% per level." 3) "Survey will also decrease the cycle time of the Salvager." 4) "In order to salvage Tech 2 or faction ships, Salvaging must be trained to Level 3." 5) "Fitting a Salvage Tackle to your ship will increase the chance of a salvage retrieval by 10%." 6) "Plugging in a 'Prospector' PPY-1 implant will increase the chance of salvage retrieval by 5%." Now as to tractor beams - if the wreck is White you can usually tractor it. If it is Yellow you can't. Thus, tractor beams are primarily of use for mission runners - not for ninja salvagers out after the wrecks someone else created. Tractor beams have a range of 20km and a speed of 500m/s. Thus you can't tow with them until you get within 20km and if you are using a MWD and the wreck gets over 20km away - you will lose the two. Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting
Etria Issen Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.11 23:42:00 - [14] This might be obvious but remember to bookmark those missions spaces before you turn them in. Or you're gonna have a haaaard time finding it again.
Triris	Posted - 2009.02.11 23:59:00 - [15] I have a question. Is it a bit pointless to salvage lvl 1-3's? (Missions) and wait for the the juicy BS?
Mel Dareia	Posted - 2009.02.12 00:11:00 - [16] Pointless? Not if you're in need of ISK. Salvaging in lvl 1-3 missions produces excellent cash for new pilots.
Abundant Cachet	Posted - 2009.02.12 02:32:00 - [17] More excellent info, thanks guys. I've found that the loot and salvage is pretty comparable from L1-L3 missions, except that the volumes in L3 are somewhat higher. Is there a big jump in quality of loot/salvage from L3 to L4? Given how often people talk about L4 missions, I'm assuming that it's a juicy goal to work toward, but if it's as incrementally better than L3 as L3 is to L2, then I'm going to prepare for disappointment.
Kask Aledrought Gallente Forging Industries	Posted - 2009.02.12 03:31:00 - [18] .
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.02.12 04:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Abundant Cachet Is there a big jump in quality of loot/salvage from L3 to L4? Yes there is - mostly due to the significant increase in the number and quality of ships you face in level 4 missions. In addition, many ships you face in level 4 missions have bounties that are equivalent to rewards and salvage from a complete level 3 mission. You can take four friends along to help you on level 4 missions and you will all be making more ISK/hr than four of you running level 3 missions separately. Also, a note about someone's comment earlier in the thread - you will certainly salvage 1 wreck much faster if you focus four salvagers on it, but you will be faster overall if you use 4 salvagers on 4 wrecks.
Lei Merdeau Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Mara Rinn Also, a note about someone's comment earlier in the thread - you will certainly salvage 1 wreck much faster if you focus four salvagers on it, but you will be faster overall if you use 4 salvagers on 4 wrecks. that's the point, if you've only one wreck in (potential) range put all your salvagers on that, if you've more then spread them.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:31:00 - [21] I should also point out that the most effective salvaging/looting craft - for me, at least - is a dedicated marauder filled with salvagers in the highs and expanded cargohold IIs in the lows, and warps into a nice little ball of wrecks created by marauder number one previously :) -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.12 13:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Captain Pompous I should also point out that the most effective salvaging/looting craft - for me, at least - is a dedicated marauder filled with salvagers in the highs and expanded cargohold IIs in the lows, and warps into a nice little ball of wrecks created by marauder number one previously :) You are better off with a dedicated loot monkey ship since you can add rigs to improve salvage times. You can of course add salvage rigs to a Marauder but that is kind of crazy and an exceptionally expensive ship just to loot in. Best to use your Marauder during missions to tractor all the wrecks into a ball and loot them then bring in your loot monkey to salvage (as I said a BC works well here but a Destroyer does well too although it often fills its cargo too fast and needs to make more than one trip). -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.02.13 04:01:00 - [23] If you tractor/loot in a marauder, you'll only need a destroyer to salvage since most salvage is tiny (0.01m3 or so).
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.13 04:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Abundant Cachet I've heard it said and argued many times that tractor beams do not work on wrecks Tractor beams DO work on wrecks, but only YOUR wrecks (or wrecks created by people in your fleet). MULTIPLE tractor beams don't work better than one (actually, you shouldn't be able to use more than one on any wreck/can, but under abnormal circumstances you can). in fleet or in corp (except for npc corp) wrecks as for the more salvages, it is like rolling dice, you roll 1 die trying to get a 1 and well that happens sometimes, you roll 2 dice trying for a 1 on either one and well it happens more often, you roll 8 dice hoping for a 1 and well it will happen quite often. or you train salvaging up and get salvage rigs and then it is like rolling a die and trying to get a 4 or below aka salvage a lot faster

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