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Honour ?

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K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.11 06:13:00 - [31] there really isnt much honor in blowing up someones defenseless ship... i.e. haulers and mining barges. so i think that rules pirates out of honor...... imo. i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... i think most people who call themselves pirates and go on about honor and blah blah blah, have claimed themselves as pirates falsely.
Sytoru Hiroshyma The Stewie Griffin Fanclub	Posted - 2009.02.11 06:59:00 - [32] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N there really isnt much honor in blowing up someones defenseless ship... i.e. haulers and mining barges. so i think that rules pirates out of honor...... imo. i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... i think most people who call themselves pirates and go on about honor and blah blah blah, have claimed themselves as pirates falsely. ...and thus speaks a CVA loving carebear. Which reminds me, am I still on personal red with CVA? It's been a while since I was out that way.
Dracoknight	Posted - 2009.02.11 07:16:00 - [33] Well this is a interesting topic, but i have to say: You pirates who dont follow the "honor" will only meet a "customer" once who are willing to pay him, and thus getting a boost in ISK once... But as a "honorable" pirate you can gain small ISK ransoms from the same pilot mulitply times as he know his ISK isnt going to be wasted on a bloodshred... So the "Honor" is a way of making money, and its a quite good one aswell, but you who are blood thirsty will have a big bonus at the time at the happening, but he wil never get ransoms from the same guy again... Thus doing the last by destroying him after a ransom you hurt reputation of every "pirate" in low sec so that pilot wont pay them either. So i can conclude there is 2 types of pirates: those who use their brains, and those who use their swords.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.11 07:31:00 - [34] The problem is, a single pirate is unlikely me see the same "customer" more than once (unless they are stupid) so in that single case it doesn't matter if they have any honor or not. The problem is, the "customer" is likely to see multiple pirates in their lifetime (different ones) and they assume that ALL pirates don't have any honor because the first one didn't. So what happens is that you indirectly ruin it for all pirates which eventually turn around and bites you in the bum.
icewalls Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.02.11 07:32:00 - [35] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N there really isnt much honor in blowing up someones defenseless ship... i.e. haulers and mining barges. so i think that rules pirates out of honor...... imo. i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... i think most people who call themselves pirates and go on about honor and blah blah blah, have claimed themselves as pirates falsely. you say haulers and mining barges I say bring BRING BATTLESHIPS AND T2 stuff, so we "don't" look like we are just out for ganking you I do not get to choose my targets, whether it be a hulk or hurricane. I kill/ransom all that I find. Pirate code is more of a personal/corp thing, depends and varies on each person/corp as they follow or not. You say pirate code, I say if ransom was paid, they will pay later again if they are caught again. Simple as that. If you kill after ransoming them, you do so at your risk of losing ransom later on. I personally like the cashflow. 1v1's been done all the time, pirate or not pirate. There are always cheaters in anything in eve, so do so at your risk, 1v1 is not just pirate 'thing'.
Footfist Headknocker	Posted - 2009.02.11 07:51:00 - [36] Infamy is better than fame. Meaning dishonour is better than honour. And it's a game. Being an honourable bad guy is a contradiction.
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.11 08:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Footfist Headknocker Infamy is better than fame. Meaning dishonour is better than honour. And it's a game. Being an honourable bad guy is a contradiction. I perhaps agree more with this, like i have said before for me being a pirate (not that I am currently ) is being kind of evil and being known locally and feared. Of course you can be polite about your antics by not smacking I guess I would expect all pirates to be unhonourable when it came to it, as past experiences have taught me. In all of this I guess there is a certain type of honour amoung pirates, be it personal or based around corp rules, however, I find myself going from a bit of a carebear and hunting just flashy reds to becoming a pirate being more inclined to shoot to kill whilst getting the most from the victim as possible. My own version of 'honour' seems to be evolving, which it seems is subject to change at will to suit the situation. Which I guess is what most pirates do? Either way thanks for all the great imput on this topic so far, its getting interesting!
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.11 09:18:00 - [38] Originally by: Brego Tralowski One guy mentioned his corp had a code of conduct (which i'll have a look at, thanks for the link) which is interesting. Does this code get policed to any extent? Are there punishments for crossing the line? It really depends on the situation. A minor offense will earn you a warning, repeated disobedience will get you kicked. In case of dishonoring a ransom you'll refund the ransom out of your wallet. As we choose our members wisely I do not remember a single case when someone got kicked or had to refund a ransom.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.11 09:44:00 - [39] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... 1v1s are a leisure activity that I do for the thrill of an interesting fight. It surely has nothing to do with profits. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.11 10:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Sytoru Hiroshyma Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N there really isnt much honor in blowing up someones defenseless ship... i.e. haulers and mining barges. so i think that rules pirates out of honor...... imo. i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... i think most people who call themselves pirates and go on about honor and blah blah blah, have claimed themselves as pirates falsely. ...and thus speaks a CVA loving carebear. Which reminds me, am I still on personal red with CVA? It's been a while since I was out that way. youre about as gullible as the rest of my fanclub or are you just ****y at me cause i said i now hate family guy thnx to you? which i do, thankyou, well done you Recruiting \o/
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.11 10:25:00 - [41] Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... 1v1s are a leisure activity that I do for the thrill of an interesting fight. It surely has nothing to do with profits. so do i... but as i said, i just dont agree to one. Recruiting \o/
TimMc Gallente Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.02.11 11:47:00 - [42] I never ransom in the first place, but if someone shouted a good ransom price in local I would honour it. That said, nothing against ganking haulers and defenceless sods.
Adeptus mecanicus The Flaming Sideburn's Sons-Of-Anarchy	Posted - 2009.02.11 12:33:00 - [43] this is a topic that appears many many many times during a year might suggest that there made is a sticky that shows the "few" corps/alliances/single toons that does honor ransoms and other shady dealings. and no we dont ransom or give into ransom coz both are counter productive and will end up in members starting to ransoming eatch other fore easy isk Recruitment Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:23:00 - [44] Slash and burn and take what you can get. There's always more fish in the sea. Do you honour ransoms and get butt-hurt because I and other people don't? Frankly, I don't care. Whining about someone's play style hurting your own sounds very carebearish. If you can't see the obvious irony, I'm afraid I'll be laughing even more at you. Again, and no one has not once even attempted to argue this point: If you base your business off of honouring ransoms, or collecting protection money, you are an extortionist and not a pirate. Don't worry though, even though "extortionist" doesn't sound as cool and froody as "pirate", you're still considered a very mean guy. So, two points made here - Whining about others "hurting" your business makes you sound like a sniveling carebear. Honouring ransoms and giving "protection" makes you an extortionist. Someone please argue those points. Right now, I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of pansies with an identity crisis.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Someone please argue those points. Right now, I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of pansies with an identity crisis. Your Honour, I object! I don't have pants on, so I can't be a pansie.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Slash and burn and take what you can get. There's always more fish in the sea. Do you honour ransoms and get butt-hurt because I and other people don't? Frankly, I don't care. Whining about someone's play style hurting your own sounds very carebearish. If you can't see the obvious irony, I'm afraid I'll be laughing even more at you. Again, and no one has not once even attempted to argue this point: If you base your business off of honouring ransoms, or collecting protection money, you are an extortionist and not a pirate. Don't worry though, even though "extortionist" doesn't sound as cool and froody as "pirate", you're still considered a very mean guy. So, two points made here - Whining about others "hurting" your business makes you sound like a sniveling carebear. Honouring ransoms and giving "protection" makes you an extortionist. Someone please argue those points. Right now, I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of pansies with an identity crisis. here here! /argues your point this is serious business after all Recruiting \o/
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:34:00 - [47] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N this is serious business after all Its the sriusest!
Normin Bates	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:36:00 - [48] Edited by: Normin Bates on 11/02/2009 13:39:20 Originally by: Sol'Kanar Slash and burn and take what you can get. There's always more fish in the sea. Do you honour ransoms and get butt-hurt because I and other people don't? Frankly, I don't care. Whining about someone's play style hurting your own sounds very carebearish. If you can't see the obvious irony, I'm afraid I'll be laughing even more at you. Again, and no one has not once even attempted to argue this point: If you base your business off of honouring ransoms, or collecting protection money, you are an extortionist and not a pirate. Don't worry though, even though "extortionist" doesn't sound as cool and froody as "pirate", you're still considered a very mean guy. So, two points made here - Whining about others "hurting" your business makes you sound like a sniveling carebear. Honouring ransoms and giving "protection" makes you an extortionist. Someone please argue those points. Right now, I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of pansies with an identity crisis. First post all week that made sense.
Ignition SemperFi Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:48:00 - [49] but but but but what if a carebear asks for parlay ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun. Quote: They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:55:00 - [50] Imagine no pirates - I wonder if you can? There would be no need for greed or hunger, I reckon it would be a brotherhood of man. Imagine all the people, sharing all the worlds.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:58:00 - [51] Originally by: Ignition SemperFi but but but but what if a carebear asks for parlay Manbear or fembear?
Fapulous McDoogle	Posted - 2009.02.11 14:13:00 - [52] Originally by: Brego Tralowski HIt would seem most pilots fall either side of the fence with some honouring ransoms and others not with a sprinkling of pilots falling into the grey area of ransom then kill anyway. Thank you Captain Obvious.
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.11 14:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Fapulous McDoogle Originally by: Brego Tralowski HIt would seem most pilots fall either side of the fence with some honouring ransoms and others not with a sprinkling of pilots falling into the grey area of ransom then kill anyway. Thank you Captain Obvious. Not a problem! Glad to see others sticking up for the - ransom, kill anyway and taking the victim for all they can. -----------------------------------------------
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.11 15:20:00 - [54] Screw honor (or honour). I just want to see a ship explode. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:18:00 - [55] It's Mister HONOR to you. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Skira Ranos Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.11 17:55:00 - [56] The way I see it, there are three kinds of player attracted to piracy. These are broad categories, and most pirates fit into more than one to a degree, but bear with me anyways. Type 1: The Killer Those who pirate because they just like to PvP. The are the guys that love their killmails. Most pirates fall into this category. They vary in severity from those who just like to see things go boom (and will use any tactics, including massive blobage, to achieve this) all the way to those who prefer challenging fights and small engagements, and some who even like the fight more than the killmail. This type does not usually benefit from honor, though those who like a challenge may enjoy 1v1s, in which case pirate honor at large will allow them more fights. Type 2: The Profiteer Those who pirate for profit. These pirates view piracy as a profession in EVE: a way of life, not just a kind of PvP. Many of them are attracted to the ôarchetypeö of the outlaw, living on the edge of space. Some just like the challenge. Still others are EVE roleplayers. This type varies from those who gatecamp and mission bust with large gangs for secure profit to those who roam around ransoming. This type benefits the most from being honorable: if they (and pirate at large) honor ransoms, then more people will pay said ransoms, knowing their ôhonorableö reputation. Type 3: The Griefer Those who pirate because they like angering and inconveniencing others. While there's probably a little bit of this in all of us who pirate, there is a large subsection of pirates who dedicate themselves to piracy merely to **** people off. These guys camp stations and gates, pod indiscriminately, scam, dishonor ransoms and 1v1s (doubling the grief they cause their victims) and otherwise do their best to ruin the playtime of others. These pirates tend to ruin things for types 1 and 2, because they not only act dishonorably and give pirates at large a bad name, but they do so intentionally. In fact, causing other pirates grief probably makes them just as happy and ruining a carebears day. This type not only doesn't benefit from honor, but they actually benefit from being dishonorable. Its my personal opinion that type 3 players are immature, pathetic children. However, they're way of playing the game (while disgusting) is perfectly legitimate. If you are type 1 or type 2 pirate, it is ALWAYS a good idea to honor your ransoms and 1v1s, for the sake of the rest of us, but as long as type 3s exist (and as long as we're playing an MMO, they'll be here) they'll continue to spit on our honor and make things worse for us. __ Recruiting
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.02.11 17:57:00 - [57] We honor ransoms, but that's just our style. Wveryone has their own. Oh, and we're extortionists, for the record. Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:10:00 - [58] Originally by: Skira Ranos The way I see it, there are three kinds of player attracted to piracy. These are broad categories, and most pirates fit into more than one to a degree, but bear with me anyways. Type 1: The Killer Those who pirate because they just like to PvP. The are the guys that love their killmails. Most pirates fall into this category. They vary in severity from those who just like to see things go boom (and will use any tactics, including massive blobage, to achieve this) all the way to those who prefer challenging fights and small engagements, and some who even like the fight more than the killmail. This type does not usually benefit from honor, though those who like a challenge may enjoy 1v1s, in which case pirate honor at large will allow them more fights. Type 2: The Profiteer Those who pirate for profit. These pirates view piracy as a profession in EVE: a way of life, not just a kind of PvP. Many of them are attracted to the ôarchetypeö of the outlaw, living on the edge of space. Some just like the challenge. Still others are EVE roleplayers. This type varies from those who gatecamp and mission bust with large gangs for secure profit to those who roam around ransoming. This type benefits the most from being honorable: if they (and pirate at large) honor ransoms, then more people will pay said ransoms, knowing their ôhonorableö reputation. Type 3: The Griefer Those who pirate because they like angering and inconveniencing others. While there's probably a little bit of this in all of us who pirate, there is a large subsection of pirates who dedicate themselves to piracy merely to **** people off. These guys camp stations and gates, pod indiscriminately, scam, dishonor ransoms and 1v1s (doubling the grief they cause their victims) and otherwise do their best to ruin the playtime of others. These pirates tend to ruin things for types 1 and 2, because they not only act dishonorably and give pirates at large a bad name, but they do so intentionally. In fact, causing other pirates grief probably makes them just as happy and ruining a carebears day. This type not only doesn't benefit from honor, but they actually benefit from being dishonorable. Its my personal opinion that type 3 players are immature, pathetic children. However, they're way of playing the game (while disgusting) is perfectly legitimate. If you are type 1 or type 2 pirate, it is ALWAYS a good idea to honor your ransoms and 1v1s, for the sake of the rest of us, but as long as type 3s exist (and as long as we're playing an MMO, they'll be here) they'll continue to spit on our honor and make things worse for us. Nice summary - 10/10! My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
Jhagiti Tyran Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2009.02.11 19:02:00 - [59] Honour is such a stupid word because everybody seems to attach a different meaning to it when it comes to ransoms I prefer a much simpler description and call it an agreement, if you negotiate a ransom and don't stick with the deal you have broken your agreement and its nothing to do with e-honour.
Decimus Caedrius Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.11 19:19:00 - [60] Get Honor. Stay honor.

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