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Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:52:00 - [1] So pirates are bound by honour? I see no mystic tome containing the rules regarding Pirate Honour. People have groaned at their ships loss after paying a ransom, but what did you expect - they're pirates! So called 'Pirate Honour' has often been the subject of debate on the forums, with arguments for and against with no real winner. Those that pirate without 'honour' are said to be hurting the exploits of 'honourable' pirates, whilst those that are less 'honourable' are deemed even worse than pirates. I know that if I were a pirate (and have had pirate tendencies of late) I would be deemed 'unhonourable' and this is why: If I were a Pirate I would PvP, jump mission runners and all that other good stuff, I would ransom and still kill the dude/dudette. I see being a pirate as being a cut-throat profession, ransacking, destroying and taking isk where ever it presents itself, either through combat, scams or corp infilltration. No La dee daa about it. I would like to see this fabled pirates honour code some people seem to go on about, I would like others thoughts and insights on this also. What does being a Pirate really mean to the people of Eve - pirates and victims alike. What does YAARRR really mean these days? -----------------------------------------------
Lyris Nairn Caldari Sexy Pirate Club	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:54:00 - [2] Originally by: Brego Tralowski What does YAARRR really mean these days? Ooooooh, let's kill it and take its stuff! With all my Love, 'Little Cinnamon'
kor anon Amarr The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:56:00 - [3] There is no particular ruleset for honour, its just good for business. The more honorable you are the more people will pay ransoms, and the more respected you become. At least thats the way i see it.
Lyris Nairn Caldari Sexy Pirate Club	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:57:00 - [4] I would personally ransom - and honor it - against an Orca, any racial astrometrics frigate, a shuttle or a rookie ship. Why? Those ships don't show up on our kb. :( With all my Love, 'Little Cinnamon'
Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:59:00 - [5] e-honour owns
Dawts Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:00:00 - [6] To me honour means a reputation, and reputation is everything. If people know you keep your word, than the isk will flow easier than if people know you're a lying scumbag. Eve is an open world, true to real life there are many times of pirates/people. You can't use 1 word to describe hundreds of different people.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:01:00 - [7] Low-sec extortionists are simply having an identity crisis, that's all. It's probably because "I'm a pirate" sounds a lot cooler than "I'm an extortionist".
Rheed Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:04:00 - [8] If I thought honor would benifit me in any way, I would buy two of em. Look at me! I'm on the INTERNET!!!
3yeb4ll Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:07:00 - [9] Thank god someone's finally defined a pirate, rather than bleating on about this "honour" crap. Maximum Yarrage - the only real pirate corp in eve
Lyris Nairn Caldari Sexy Pirate Club	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Dawts To me honour means a reputation, and reputation is everything. If people know you keep your word, than the isk will flow easier than if people know you're a lying scumbag. Eve is an open world, true to real life there are many times of pirates/people. You can't use 1 word to describe hundreds of different people. "You can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to watch out for." - Captain Jack Sparrow With all my Love, 'Little Cinnamon'
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:36:00 - [11] Perhaps people who become victims of Pirates rant about honour as a way of making themselves feel better about their loss whatever type it may be. The word 'honour' with regards to being a pirate is a very loose term, to say one does or does not have honour is subject to a persons personnal opinion perhaps nothing more. To claim you have 'honour' is also your own personnal opinion I guess. I could say that I would be upholding Pirate honour by ransoming then destroying your ship, to the pirate in their own opinion they still have their form of honour, in the victims they have not. Like others have said it may affect 'honourable' pirates with regards to extracting ransoms from targets, but you could say that they too have become victims of the 'unhonourable' pirates. Acts of piracy covers many topics to discuss and I also think that Honour covers just as many. And what it means to one pilot it does not always mean the same to the next pilot. Trust is another issue clossly related to honour, does a victim trust a pirate to honour his ransom request? Will he/she let his ship/pod go? Or is that KM just too glorious to pass up? Is there really any honour amoung pirates?
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:39:00 - [12] You cannot spell "honour" without O U!
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Brego Tralowski So pirates are bound by honour? I see no mystic tome containing the rules regarding Pirate Honour. People have groaned at their ships loss after paying a ransom, but what did you expect - they're pirates! So called 'Pirate Honour' has often been the subject of debate on the forums, with arguments for and against with no real winner. Those that pirate without 'honour' are said to be hurting the exploits of 'honourable' pirates, whilst those that are less 'honourable' are deemed even worse than pirates. I know that if I were a pirate (and have had pirate tendencies of late) I would be deemed 'unhonourable' and this is why: If I were a Pirate I would PvP, jump mission runners and all that other good stuff, I would ransom and still kill the dude/dudette. I see being a pirate as being a cut-throat profession, ransacking, destroying and taking isk where ever it presents itself, either through combat, scams or corp infilltration. No La dee daa about it. I would like to see this fabled pirates honour code some people seem to go on about, I would like others thoughts and insights on this also. What does being a Pirate really mean to the people of Eve - pirates and victims alike. What does YAARRR really mean these days? YAARRR - acronym - Youth Against All Remote Repping Rodents DUH!
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:02:00 - [14] Posting in an e-honor thread again! Hi Sol and hi mom! To answer your question from my very personal point of view: If you gank mission runners in hisec it hardly matters if you let the pilot go after he paid. The mission runner chooses to engage you and after losing one rigged mission ship he will think twice about doing it a second time. In losec it's a different story. You can make a good income on ransoms, if people in the region know they will be left alone for a certain fee. If we make an agreement with some industrial corp that they can mine away for 100M per month without getting killed we are going to honor this agreement hoping to get the same deal another month or two. If we took the money and then blew them up, it would be difficult to get another 100M out of the loot and we would not get paid another month for sure. If I catch someone at a gate and he pays to live I am going to let him live and do the same when we meet again - believe it or not, repeated customers do exist in losec. There is no general definition of honor, but in our corp we got a Code of Conduct (you can take a look on our homepage by clicking on that brown book). Many other pirate corps do the same, many do not. This is a sandbox game, so it is even allowed to have honor as a pirate My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
Ignition SemperFi Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:10:00 - [15] Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 10/02/2009 18:10:12 posting in this, is where i say i will always honor ransoms because thats what all the cool pirates do. You can trust me , im an honest fellah with honest morale ;-p ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun. Quote: They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise
Inara Subaka Caldari the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:46:00 - [16] Originally by: kor anon There is no particular ruleset for honour, its just good for business. The more honorable you are the more people will pay ransoms, and the more respected you become. At least thats the way i see it. This. That's about the close to defining Pirate Honor you can get tbh. Originally by: Chomin H'ak YAARRR - acronym - Youth Against All Remote Repping Rodents DUH! WIN! /thread
Decimus Caedrius	Posted - 2009.02.10 19:28:00 - [17] Honor is about semantics. Plain and simple, I would honor a ransom to a degree, unless specifics were in place. Otherwise be happy that you left with your implants intact. Careful wording is everything, IMO.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.02.10 19:33:00 - [18] The Pirates Code [i] FOR PONY
Mag Mell	Posted - 2009.02.10 20:16:00 - [19] this thread delivers ehonor CHECK wall of text CHECK no real purpose or questions CHECK 10/10
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.10 20:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Mag Mell this thread delivers ehonor CHECK wall of text CHECK no real purpose or questions CHECK 10/10 this troll delivers waffle CHECK truncated bullet points CHECK no real purpose or questions CHECK 10/10
Liz Laser	Posted - 2009.02.10 20:29:00 - [21] The O.P. just doesn't get it. Pirates are LONELY. They want to talk with other pilots. But other pilots are busy. So pirates warp scramble other pilots. Thus ensues conversations that would otherwise never occur. Whether said conversation yields, isk, a big boom or BOTH is unimportant. What's important is that the pirate usually isn't ignored. If I ever get warp scrambled I'll probably just get up from the computer and make a sandwich. From what I've read in the forums, ransom negotiations look even more boring than mining.
Sytoru Hiroshyma The Stewie Griffin Fanclub	Posted - 2009.02.10 21:31:00 - [22] Honour? Our word is our Honour. We do whatever we say we will do, be it allowing you to leave with your ship, leave your ship in return for keeping your pod, paying to have a war dec lifted or to ensure immunity from a war dec or whatever. Other than that, no hard and fast rules.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.10 21:43:00 - [23] lolnour
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.11 00:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Liz Laser The O.P. just doesn't get it. Pirates are LONELY. They want to talk with other pilots. But other pilots are busy. So pirates warp scramble other pilots. Thus ensues conversations that would otherwise never occur. Whether said conversation yields, isk, a big boom or BOTH is unimportant. What's important is that the pirate usually isn't ignored. If I ever get warp scrambled I'll probably just get up from the computer and make a sandwich. From what I've read in the forums, ransom negotiations look even more boring than mining. Guess you hit the nail right on the head - all we want is some social interaction My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.02.11 00:38:00 - [25] Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: Liz Laser The O.P. just doesn't get it. Pirates are LONELY. They want to talk with other pilots. But other pilots are busy. So pirates warp scramble other pilots. Thus ensues conversations that would otherwise never occur. Whether said conversation yields, isk, a big boom or BOTH is unimportant. What's important is that the pirate usually isn't ignored. If I ever get warp scrambled I'll probably just get up from the computer and make a sandwich. From what I've read in the forums, ransom negotiations look even more boring than mining. Guess you hit the nail right on the head - all we want is some social interaction Its true. Amamake has a spattering of vulnerable pilots that just want attention, that are just waiting for someone to warp to zero and give meaning to that cold, lonely existance. Worse still are those too shy to make even that small outreaching to their fellow humanity, forced to hide in safespots ever gazing at the directional scanner, this scant contact is often all they will have to comfort themselves. Hug a Pirate.
Alia Xi Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.11 00:42:00 - [26] Not honouring your ransom is like going into a shop with the intention to steal something, then paying for it. No, wait... Anyway where was I. Oh yeah, not honouring ransoms is bad mkay. It means that if you come across them in the future they aren't gonna pay you. As your reputation for not honouring ransoms spreads you stiff yourself out of a bit fat wallet of isk. If you want the killmail, shoot it until it goes bang. If you want isk then ransom it. You can't have your cake and eat it, well you can but that's besides the point. The point bit was above. If you want a bang and some isk, blow up the ship and then ransom the pod. Simple huh? Just like me
n000000000000b Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.02.11 01:06:00 - [27] Edited by: n000000000000b on 11/02/2009 01:06:20 but im not noob c/d?
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.11 01:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Alia Xi some stuff Rob shops, shoot people, eat cake.. gotcha. Originally by: Soporo This thread is obviously about hawt EVE sex. That is all.
Decimus Caedrius Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.11 05:17:00 - [29] Originally by: Sytoru Hiroshyma Honour? Our word is our Honour. We do whatever we say we will do, be it allowing you to leave with your ship, leave your ship in return for keeping your pod, paying to have a war dec lifted or to ensure immunity from a war dec or whatever. Other than that, no hard and fast rules. Winsauce all over this.
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.11 05:44:00 - [30] Hi all, thanks for contributing to the thread so far. It would seem most pilots fall either side of the fence with some honouring ransoms and others not with a sprinkling of pilots falling into the grey area of ransom then kill anyway. One guy mentioned his corp had a code of conduct (which i'll have a look at, thanks for the link) which is interesting. Does this code get policed to any extent? Are there punishments for crossing the line? This subject interests me, and I appologise for there being no real question to this thread. I just thought it would be interesting to get others opinion on this subject, and for that I thank you all. I guess honour could be linked to peoples own concience, perhaps you would feel 'guilty' or letting yourself down in some way if you didn't honour your ransoms etc. Thats why we all love this game, you make your own rules and live by them whether you realise it or not, giving us all a chance to do things theres no way of doing in RL. But again, what does YAARR really mean these days?
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.11 06:13:00 - [31] there really isnt much honor in blowing up someones defenseless ship... i.e. haulers and mining barges. so i think that rules pirates out of honor...... imo. i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... i think most people who call themselves pirates and go on about honor and blah blah blah, have claimed themselves as pirates falsely.
Sytoru Hiroshyma The Stewie Griffin Fanclub	Posted - 2009.02.11 06:59:00 - [32] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N there really isnt much honor in blowing up someones defenseless ship... i.e. haulers and mining barges. so i think that rules pirates out of honor...... imo. i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... i think most people who call themselves pirates and go on about honor and blah blah blah, have claimed themselves as pirates falsely. ...and thus speaks a CVA loving carebear. Which reminds me, am I still on personal red with CVA? It's been a while since I was out that way.
Dracoknight	Posted - 2009.02.11 07:16:00 - [33] Well this is a interesting topic, but i have to say: You pirates who dont follow the "honor" will only meet a "customer" once who are willing to pay him, and thus getting a boost in ISK once... But as a "honorable" pirate you can gain small ISK ransoms from the same pilot mulitply times as he know his ISK isnt going to be wasted on a bloodshred... So the "Honor" is a way of making money, and its a quite good one aswell, but you who are blood thirsty will have a big bonus at the time at the happening, but he wil never get ransoms from the same guy again... Thus doing the last by destroying him after a ransom you hurt reputation of every "pirate" in low sec so that pilot wont pay them either. So i can conclude there is 2 types of pirates: those who use their brains, and those who use their swords.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.11 07:31:00 - [34] The problem is, a single pirate is unlikely me see the same "customer" more than once (unless they are stupid) so in that single case it doesn't matter if they have any honor or not. The problem is, the "customer" is likely to see multiple pirates in their lifetime (different ones) and they assume that ALL pirates don't have any honor because the first one didn't. So what happens is that you indirectly ruin it for all pirates which eventually turn around and bites you in the bum.
icewalls Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.02.11 07:32:00 - [35] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N there really isnt much honor in blowing up someones defenseless ship... i.e. haulers and mining barges. so i think that rules pirates out of honor...... imo. i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... i think most people who call themselves pirates and go on about honor and blah blah blah, have claimed themselves as pirates falsely. you say haulers and mining barges I say bring BRING BATTLESHIPS AND T2 stuff, so we "don't" look like we are just out for ganking you I do not get to choose my targets, whether it be a hulk or hurricane. I kill/ransom all that I find. Pirate code is more of a personal/corp thing, depends and varies on each person/corp as they follow or not. You say pirate code, I say if ransom was paid, they will pay later again if they are caught again. Simple as that. If you kill after ransoming them, you do so at your risk of losing ransom later on. I personally like the cashflow. 1v1's been done all the time, pirate or not pirate. There are always cheaters in anything in eve, so do so at your risk, 1v1 is not just pirate 'thing'.
Footfist Headknocker	Posted - 2009.02.11 07:51:00 - [36] Infamy is better than fame. Meaning dishonour is better than honour. And it's a game. Being an honourable bad guy is a contradiction.
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.11 08:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Footfist Headknocker Infamy is better than fame. Meaning dishonour is better than honour. And it's a game. Being an honourable bad guy is a contradiction. I perhaps agree more with this, like i have said before for me being a pirate (not that I am currently ) is being kind of evil and being known locally and feared. Of course you can be polite about your antics by not smacking I guess I would expect all pirates to be unhonourable when it came to it, as past experiences have taught me. In all of this I guess there is a certain type of honour amoung pirates, be it personal or based around corp rules, however, I find myself going from a bit of a carebear and hunting just flashy reds to becoming a pirate being more inclined to shoot to kill whilst getting the most from the victim as possible. My own version of 'honour' seems to be evolving, which it seems is subject to change at will to suit the situation. Which I guess is what most pirates do? Either way thanks for all the great imput on this topic so far, its getting interesting!
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.11 09:18:00 - [38] Originally by: Brego Tralowski One guy mentioned his corp had a code of conduct (which i'll have a look at, thanks for the link) which is interesting. Does this code get policed to any extent? Are there punishments for crossing the line? It really depends on the situation. A minor offense will earn you a warning, repeated disobedience will get you kicked. In case of dishonoring a ransom you'll refund the ransom out of your wallet. As we choose our members wisely I do not remember a single case when someone got kicked or had to refund a ransom.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.11 09:44:00 - [39] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... 1v1s are a leisure activity that I do for the thrill of an interesting fight. It surely has nothing to do with profits. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.11 10:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Sytoru Hiroshyma Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N there really isnt much honor in blowing up someones defenseless ship... i.e. haulers and mining barges. so i think that rules pirates out of honor...... imo. i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... i think most people who call themselves pirates and go on about honor and blah blah blah, have claimed themselves as pirates falsely. ...and thus speaks a CVA loving carebear. Which reminds me, am I still on personal red with CVA? It's been a while since I was out that way. youre about as gullible as the rest of my fanclub or are you just ****y at me cause i said i now hate family guy thnx to you? which i do, thankyou, well done you Recruiting \o/
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.11 10:25:00 - [41] Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N i still honor agreements but its been quite awhile since i agreed to a 1vs1 - a 1vs1 against another pilot in even circumstances means a 50/50 chance of "winning or loosing". thats a 50% chance of profit... i dont like those odds tbh. so instead i would rather sneak up and knife someone in the back as its a sure gain of "winning" but theres no honor... 1v1s are a leisure activity that I do for the thrill of an interesting fight. It surely has nothing to do with profits. so do i... but as i said, i just dont agree to one. Recruiting \o/
TimMc Gallente Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.02.11 11:47:00 - [42] I never ransom in the first place, but if someone shouted a good ransom price in local I would honour it. That said, nothing against ganking haulers and defenceless sods.
Adeptus mecanicus The Flaming Sideburn's Sons-Of-Anarchy	Posted - 2009.02.11 12:33:00 - [43] this is a topic that appears many many many times during a year might suggest that there made is a sticky that shows the "few" corps/alliances/single toons that does honor ransoms and other shady dealings. and no we dont ransom or give into ransom coz both are counter productive and will end up in members starting to ransoming eatch other fore easy isk Recruitment Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:23:00 - [44] Slash and burn and take what you can get. There's always more fish in the sea. Do you honour ransoms and get butt-hurt because I and other people don't? Frankly, I don't care. Whining about someone's play style hurting your own sounds very carebearish. If you can't see the obvious irony, I'm afraid I'll be laughing even more at you. Again, and no one has not once even attempted to argue this point: If you base your business off of honouring ransoms, or collecting protection money, you are an extortionist and not a pirate. Don't worry though, even though "extortionist" doesn't sound as cool and froody as "pirate", you're still considered a very mean guy. So, two points made here - Whining about others "hurting" your business makes you sound like a sniveling carebear. Honouring ransoms and giving "protection" makes you an extortionist. Someone please argue those points. Right now, I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of pansies with an identity crisis.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Someone please argue those points. Right now, I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of pansies with an identity crisis. Your Honour, I object! I don't have pants on, so I can't be a pansie.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Slash and burn and take what you can get. There's always more fish in the sea. Do you honour ransoms and get butt-hurt because I and other people don't? Frankly, I don't care. Whining about someone's play style hurting your own sounds very carebearish. If you can't see the obvious irony, I'm afraid I'll be laughing even more at you. Again, and no one has not once even attempted to argue this point: If you base your business off of honouring ransoms, or collecting protection money, you are an extortionist and not a pirate. Don't worry though, even though "extortionist" doesn't sound as cool and froody as "pirate", you're still considered a very mean guy. So, two points made here - Whining about others "hurting" your business makes you sound like a sniveling carebear. Honouring ransoms and giving "protection" makes you an extortionist. Someone please argue those points. Right now, I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of pansies with an identity crisis. here here! /argues your point this is serious business after all Recruiting \o/
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:34:00 - [47] Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N this is serious business after all Its the sriusest!
Normin Bates	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:36:00 - [48] Edited by: Normin Bates on 11/02/2009 13:39:20 Originally by: Sol'Kanar Slash and burn and take what you can get. There's always more fish in the sea. Do you honour ransoms and get butt-hurt because I and other people don't? Frankly, I don't care. Whining about someone's play style hurting your own sounds very carebearish. If you can't see the obvious irony, I'm afraid I'll be laughing even more at you. Again, and no one has not once even attempted to argue this point: If you base your business off of honouring ransoms, or collecting protection money, you are an extortionist and not a pirate. Don't worry though, even though "extortionist" doesn't sound as cool and froody as "pirate", you're still considered a very mean guy. So, two points made here - Whining about others "hurting" your business makes you sound like a sniveling carebear. Honouring ransoms and giving "protection" makes you an extortionist. Someone please argue those points. Right now, I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of pansies with an identity crisis. First post all week that made sense.
Ignition SemperFi Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:48:00 - [49] but but but but what if a carebear asks for parlay ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun. Quote: They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:55:00 - [50] Imagine no pirates - I wonder if you can? There would be no need for greed or hunger, I reckon it would be a brotherhood of man. Imagine all the people, sharing all the worlds.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:58:00 - [51] Originally by: Ignition SemperFi but but but but what if a carebear asks for parlay Manbear or fembear?
Fapulous McDoogle	Posted - 2009.02.11 14:13:00 - [52] Originally by: Brego Tralowski HIt would seem most pilots fall either side of the fence with some honouring ransoms and others not with a sprinkling of pilots falling into the grey area of ransom then kill anyway. Thank you Captain Obvious.
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.11 14:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Fapulous McDoogle Originally by: Brego Tralowski HIt would seem most pilots fall either side of the fence with some honouring ransoms and others not with a sprinkling of pilots falling into the grey area of ransom then kill anyway. Thank you Captain Obvious. Not a problem! Glad to see others sticking up for the - ransom, kill anyway and taking the victim for all they can. -----------------------------------------------
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.11 15:20:00 - [54] Screw honor (or honour). I just want to see a ship explode. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:18:00 - [55] It's Mister HONOR to you. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Skira Ranos Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.11 17:55:00 - [56] The way I see it, there are three kinds of player attracted to piracy. These are broad categories, and most pirates fit into more than one to a degree, but bear with me anyways. Type 1: The Killer Those who pirate because they just like to PvP. The are the guys that love their killmails. Most pirates fall into this category. They vary in severity from those who just like to see things go boom (and will use any tactics, including massive blobage, to achieve this) all the way to those who prefer challenging fights and small engagements, and some who even like the fight more than the killmail. This type does not usually benefit from honor, though those who like a challenge may enjoy 1v1s, in which case pirate honor at large will allow them more fights. Type 2: The Profiteer Those who pirate for profit. These pirates view piracy as a profession in EVE: a way of life, not just a kind of PvP. Many of them are attracted to the ôarchetypeö of the outlaw, living on the edge of space. Some just like the challenge. Still others are EVE roleplayers. This type varies from those who gatecamp and mission bust with large gangs for secure profit to those who roam around ransoming. This type benefits the most from being honorable: if they (and pirate at large) honor ransoms, then more people will pay said ransoms, knowing their ôhonorableö reputation. Type 3: The Griefer Those who pirate because they like angering and inconveniencing others. While there's probably a little bit of this in all of us who pirate, there is a large subsection of pirates who dedicate themselves to piracy merely to **** people off. These guys camp stations and gates, pod indiscriminately, scam, dishonor ransoms and 1v1s (doubling the grief they cause their victims) and otherwise do their best to ruin the playtime of others. These pirates tend to ruin things for types 1 and 2, because they not only act dishonorably and give pirates at large a bad name, but they do so intentionally. In fact, causing other pirates grief probably makes them just as happy and ruining a carebears day. This type not only doesn't benefit from honor, but they actually benefit from being dishonorable. Its my personal opinion that type 3 players are immature, pathetic children. However, they're way of playing the game (while disgusting) is perfectly legitimate. If you are type 1 or type 2 pirate, it is ALWAYS a good idea to honor your ransoms and 1v1s, for the sake of the rest of us, but as long as type 3s exist (and as long as we're playing an MMO, they'll be here) they'll continue to spit on our honor and make things worse for us. __ Recruiting
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.02.11 17:57:00 - [57] We honor ransoms, but that's just our style. Wveryone has their own. Oh, and we're extortionists, for the record. Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:10:00 - [58] Originally by: Skira Ranos The way I see it, there are three kinds of player attracted to piracy. These are broad categories, and most pirates fit into more than one to a degree, but bear with me anyways. Type 1: The Killer Those who pirate because they just like to PvP. The are the guys that love their killmails. Most pirates fall into this category. They vary in severity from those who just like to see things go boom (and will use any tactics, including massive blobage, to achieve this) all the way to those who prefer challenging fights and small engagements, and some who even like the fight more than the killmail. This type does not usually benefit from honor, though those who like a challenge may enjoy 1v1s, in which case pirate honor at large will allow them more fights. Type 2: The Profiteer Those who pirate for profit. These pirates view piracy as a profession in EVE: a way of life, not just a kind of PvP. Many of them are attracted to the ôarchetypeö of the outlaw, living on the edge of space. Some just like the challenge. Still others are EVE roleplayers. This type varies from those who gatecamp and mission bust with large gangs for secure profit to those who roam around ransoming. This type benefits the most from being honorable: if they (and pirate at large) honor ransoms, then more people will pay said ransoms, knowing their ôhonorableö reputation. Type 3: The Griefer Those who pirate because they like angering and inconveniencing others. While there's probably a little bit of this in all of us who pirate, there is a large subsection of pirates who dedicate themselves to piracy merely to **** people off. These guys camp stations and gates, pod indiscriminately, scam, dishonor ransoms and 1v1s (doubling the grief they cause their victims) and otherwise do their best to ruin the playtime of others. These pirates tend to ruin things for types 1 and 2, because they not only act dishonorably and give pirates at large a bad name, but they do so intentionally. In fact, causing other pirates grief probably makes them just as happy and ruining a carebears day. This type not only doesn't benefit from honor, but they actually benefit from being dishonorable. Its my personal opinion that type 3 players are immature, pathetic children. However, they're way of playing the game (while disgusting) is perfectly legitimate. If you are type 1 or type 2 pirate, it is ALWAYS a good idea to honor your ransoms and 1v1s, for the sake of the rest of us, but as long as type 3s exist (and as long as we're playing an MMO, they'll be here) they'll continue to spit on our honor and make things worse for us. Nice summary - 10/10! My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
Jhagiti Tyran Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2009.02.11 19:02:00 - [59] Honour is such a stupid word because everybody seems to attach a different meaning to it when it comes to ransoms I prefer a much simpler description and call it an agreement, if you negotiate a ransom and don't stick with the deal you have broken your agreement and its nothing to do with e-honour.
Decimus Caedrius Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.11 19:19:00 - [60] Get Honor. Stay honor.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.11 20:44:00 - [61] Originally by: Skira Ranos ...a whole lot of rubbish trying to describe what makes a pirate... Let's put on our thinking caps and go a few centuries back in time. You're a merchant on the high-seas with very valuable cargo on board. A pirate ship appears on the horizon and approaches port-side with more cannons than you have planks of wood on your ship. He shoots you up a bit, and then demands money for you to be set free. You give him the money. Now, you're all alone on the high-seas with this dastardly villain. Do you really think for a moment that he's going to just let you go when he knows if you've given him your wallet there's probably more to be had. And with nothing to stop him... you get the picture. Fast forward to Internet spaceship time. If a pirate holding true to the above scenario puts you in mortal peril, you can be certain he's going to try and take you for everything you've got. "Honour" and "pirate" are mutually exclusive terms. If in Eve, you attack someone's ship and demand a ransom with the intent of honouring it, you're not a pirate. You're an extortionist. All you pansies that honor ransoms are just wanna-be pirates. You apparently haven't got the balls to be one, so kindly stop using the title. Originally by: Skira Ranos Its my personal opinion that type 3 players are immature, pathetic children. However, their way of playing the game (while disgusting) is perfectly legitimate. If you are type 1 or type 2 pirate, it is ALWAYS a good idea to honor your ransoms and 1v1s, for the sake of the rest of us, but as long as type 3s exist (and as long as we're playing an MMO, they'll be here) they'll continue to spit on our honor and make things worse for us. Your personal opinion is narrow and ignorant. You're a carebear who wants things to be "fair" and "honourable". And all you're appealing to are other closet carebears who think they are pirates because they honour ransoms. You guys suck.
Ignition SemperFi Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.11 20:46:00 - [62] posting in a fred where sol hasnt updated his signature ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun. Quote: They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise
Normin Bates	Posted - 2009.02.11 22:29:00 - [63] Originally by: Skira Ranos Edited by: Skira Ranos on 11/02/2009 18:33:59 The way I see it, there are three kinds of player attracted to piracy. These are broad categories, and most pirates fit into more than one to a degree, but bear with me anyways. Type 1: The Killer Those who pirate because they just like to PvP. The are the guys that love their killmails. Most pirates fall into this category. They vary in severity from those who just like to see things go boom (and will use any tactics, including massive blobage, to achieve this) all the way to those who prefer challenging fights and small engagements, and some who even like the fight more than the killmail. This type does not usually benefit from honor, though those who like a challenge may enjoy 1v1s, in which case pirate honor at large will allow them more fights. Type 2: The Profiteer Those who pirate for profit. These pirates view piracy as a profession in EVE: a way of life, not just a kind of PvP. Many of them are attracted to the ôarchetypeö of the outlaw, living on the edge of space. Some just like the challenge. Still others are EVE roleplayers. This type varies from those who gatecamp and mission bust with large gangs for secure profit to those who roam around ransoming. This type benefits the most from being honorable: if they (and pirate at large) honor ransoms, then more people will pay said ransoms, knowing their ôhonorableö reputation. Type 3: The Griefer Those who pirate because they like angering and inconveniencing others. While there's probably a little bit of this in all of us who pirate, there is a large subsection of pirates who dedicate themselves to piracy merely to **** people off. These guys camp stations and gates, pod indiscriminately, scam, dishonor ransoms and 1v1s (doubling the grief they cause their victims) and otherwise do their best to ruin the playtime of others. These pirates tend to ruin things for types 1 and 2, because they not only act dishonorably and give pirates at large a bad name, but they do so intentionally. In fact, causing other pirates grief probably makes them just as happy and ruining a carebears day. This type not only doesn't benefit from honor, but they actually benefit from being dishonorable. Its my personal opinion that type 3 players are immature, pathetic children. However, their way of playing the game (while disgusting) is perfectly legitimate. If you are type 1 or type 2 pirate, it is ALWAYS a good idea to honor your ransoms and 1v1s, for the sake of the rest of us, but as long as type 3s exist (and as long as we're playing an MMO, they'll be here) they'll continue to spit on our honor and make things worse for us. Utter garbage with flimsy logic and false divisions thrown in for good measure.
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.02.11 22:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Skira Ranos Edited by: Skira Ranos on 11/02/2009 18:33:59 The way I see it, there are three kinds of player attracted to piracy. These are broad categories, and most pirates fit into more than one to a degree, but bear with me anyways. Type 1: The Killer Those who pirate because they just like to PvP. The are the guys that love their killmails. Most pirates fall into this category. They vary in severity from those who just like to see things go boom (and will use any tactics, including massive blobage, to achieve this) all the way to those who prefer challenging fights and small engagements, and some who even like the fight more than the killmail. This type does not usually benefit from honor, though those who like a challenge may enjoy 1v1s, in which case pirate honor at large will allow them more fights. Type 2: The Profiteer Those who pirate for profit. These pirates view piracy as a profession in EVE: a way of life, not just a kind of PvP. Many of them are attracted to the ôarchetypeö of the outlaw, living on the edge of space. Some just like the challenge. Still others are EVE roleplayers. This type varies from those who gatecamp and mission bust with large gangs for secure profit to those who roam around ransoming. This type benefits the most from being honorable: if they (and pirate at large) honor ransoms, then more people will pay said ransoms, knowing their ôhonorableö reputation. Type 3: The Griefer Those who pirate because they like angering and inconveniencing others. While there's probably a little bit of this in all of us who pirate, there is a large subsection of pirates who dedicate themselves to piracy merely to ** people off. These guys camp stations and gates, pod indiscriminately, scam, dishonor ransoms and 1v1s (doubling the grief they cause their victims) and otherwise do their best to ruin the playtime of others. These pirates tend to ruin things for types 1 and 2, because they not only act dishonorably and give pirates at large a bad name, but they do so intentionally. In fact, causing other pirates grief probably makes them just as happy and ruining a carebears day. This type not only doesn't benefit from honor, but they actually benefit from being dishonorable. Its my personal opinion that type 3 players are immature, pathetic children. However, their way of playing the game (while disgusting) is perfectly legitimate. If you are type 1 or type 2 pirate, it is ALWAYS a good idea to honor your ransoms and 1v1s, for the sake of the rest of us, but as long as type 3s exist (and as long as we're playing an MMO, they'll be here) they'll continue to spit on our honor and make things worse for us. Utter crap. These are 3 things pirates do for fun. I'm not a pirate and I partake in all 3. It is ludicrous to think you can take a profession as diverse as pirating and profile it into 3 quaint groups. Originally by:** sol Slash and burn and take what you can get. There's always more fish in the sea. Do you honour ransoms and get butt-hurt because I and other people don't? Frankly, I don't care. Whining about someone's play style hurting your own sounds very carebearish. If you can't see the obvious irony, I'm afraid I'll be laughing even more at you. Very Happy Again, and no one has not once even attempted to argue this point: If you base your business off of honouring ransoms, or collecting protection money, you are an extortionist and not a pirate. Don't worry though, even though "extortionist" doesn't sound as cool and froody as "pirate", you're still considered a very mean guy. So, two points made here - Whining about others "hurting" your business makes you sound like a sniveling carebear. Honouring ransoms and giving "protection" makes you an extortionist. That's more like it, honestly. Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.12 05:43:00 - [65] As I gradually turn to the dark side of eve (after killing some of my sec status lastnight ), i'm starting to like being a pirate. What I did lastnight wasn't very honourable but I had a real blast. As I was destroying ships leaving a station in a 0.1 system I was thinking about so called honour....... Then I thought ***k it just die! So I guess I have no 'honour' but whos cares I love it -----------------------------------------------
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.12 05:56:00 - [66] Originally by: Skira Ranos stuff HAY YOU GUYS! they figured us out!
Jack Gates Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:07:00 - [67] look at all these posts
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:50:00 - [68] Originally by: Jack Gates look at all these posts Why? NOT a kublai alt. Honest!
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Brego Tralowski So pirates are bound by honour? I would like to see this fabled pirates honour code some people seem to go on about, I would like others thoughts and insights on this also. What does being a Pirate really mean to the people of Eve - pirates and victims alike. What does YAARRR really mean these days? There shouldn't have to be a code dictating for you what honor is, either you are honorable or you are not. If you wanna be an unhonorable pirate thats your choice. In my experience the honorable pirates make the most isk, and I pirate for iskies and fun Theres more to honoring ransoms then just for the honors sake. You should know how many times I ransomed a guy several times during one week. You should know how many ppl that pay our corp to not end upp in a ransom situation again, weekly. Without having to probe for them we get isk from them and in turn they dont risk having their mission arborted, win-win. If we would dishonor our ransoms to start with none of this would be possible. We would make a lot less isk. Isk we can use to make an alliance and paticipate in the alliance tournament. We pirate to make isks and that is easiest if you have a good rep about being honorable with your ransoms. Besides loot is almost always worth almost nothing, the value is in riggs or ship hull which don't drop. Getting a simple killmail or see an exploision really is a little thing compared to having your honor intact. You get them anyways for the ppl not wanting the ransom. You should also know that we get a lot of recruits simply from our reputation of being honorable pirates. So for us in The Bastards being honorable has many benefits. Vigil and Caracal, Duo PvP
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.12 13:25:00 - [70] Originally by: General Coochie There shouldn't have to be a code dictating for you what honor is, either you are honorable or you are not. If you wanna be an ~~unhonorable~~ dishonourable pirate thats your choice. In my experience the ~~honorable pirates~~ extortionists make the most isk, and I ~~pirate~~ extort for iskies and fun Theres more to honoring ransoms then just for the honors sake. You should know how many times I ransomed a guy several times during one week. You should know how many ppl that pay our corp to not end upp in a ransom situation again, weekly. Without having to probe for them we get isk from them and in turn they dont risk having their mission arborted, win-win. If we would dishonor our ransoms to start with none of this would be possible. We would make a lot less isk. Isk we can use to make an alliance and paticipate in the alliance tournament. We ~~pirate~~ extort to make isks and that is easiest if you have a good rep about being honorable with your ransoms. Besides loot is almost always worth almost nothing, the value is in riggs or ship hull which don't drop. Getting a simple killmail or see an exploision really is a little thing compared to having your honor intact. You get them anyways for the ppl not wanting the ransom. You should also know that we get a lot of recruits simply from our reputation of being ~~honorable pirates~~ extortionists. So for us in The Bastards being honorable has many benefits. I fixed your post for accuracy. Did you even read my posts or are you like the throngs of others that just gloss over the parts that you don't have a retort for? If your business model (hell, if you even have a business model) revolves around honouring ransoms and getting protection money, YOU ARE NOT A PIRATE. Coochie, I'm glad you got your name back. Now only if you could sort out what you are (hint not a pirate), things just might fall into place.
Skira Ranos Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.12 13:48:00 - [71] Edited by: Skira Ranos on 12/02/2009 13:50:32 In "internet spaceship" world, I'm not trying to feed myself with the money I earn. "internet spaceship" world you can't board their ship and take their goods, you have to destroy said ship in order to get anything on it. You also can't take a victims money directly from them, as you could as a historic pirate. Ransoming people makes no sense as a historical pirate if you meet them in the deep sea, because it would be much more profitable to simply take it from them (and sometimes their ship and most skilled crewmen to boot). However, if we reverse your analogy, it makes no sense either. So you sail up to them, blow up their ship, and then try and salvage what you can from the wreckage when most of your crewmen can't swim? Not very smart, or profitable. Also, if you look at historical pirates, many of them were suprisingly honorable. Sure, you have the rotten ones like Charles Vane, who ****d and tortured their victims, but most pirates were along the lines of blackbeard, who historical accounts tell us was polite and even charming to his prey. Oh, did I forget to mention that Blackbeard once held a governor for ransom outside charleston harbor? See, it made more sense to demand money for the governor (whom he had captured as the statesmen rowed out of the bay to visit relatives) than to raid the town, because if he raided the town, he would lose one of his valuable assets (a relatively pirate friendly town where he could trade his booty for cash and rum) and not gain nearly as much money (since the residents would hide their valuables as they saw the pirate ship coming in) as with the ransom. So yes, I'm an extortionist, just like classical pirates were. My methods vary because my medium does, not because I'm a pouty carebear. Also, I never said anything about fairness. Ganking is terribly unfair, but thats fine. Its not fairness that bothers me, its people being lying, griefing scumbags (because they ruin our reputation as pirates at large, and thus make my victims less likely to pay me.) Edit: R ape is censored? Really? Okay then... __ Recruiting
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.02.12 14:03:00 - [72] ITT: people confusing good business ethics with medieval jousting.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.12 14:42:00 - [73] Edited by: Sol''Kanar on 12/02/2009 14:45:16 Originally by: Skira Ranos In "internet spaceship" world, I'm not trying to feed myself with the money I earn. Relevance? Originally by: Skira Ranos "internet spaceship" world you can't board their ship and take their goods, you have to destroy said ship in order to get anything on it. You also can't take a victims money directly from them, as you could as a historic pirate. Thanks for illustrating the obvious differences in what is available to an internet spaceship pirate. You forgot to mention that original pirate ships floated in water and not space. You nitpicked irrelevant bits and glossed over the concept. If I'm a pirate, I'm going to take everything I can. Slash and burn, yadda yadda. Originally by: Skira Ranos Ransoming people makes no sense as a historical pirate if you meet them in the deep sea, because it would be much more profitable to simply take it from them (and sometimes their ship and most skilled crewmen to boot). If wire transfers existed then, you can bet your ass a pirate would demand one. You fail to see the point. Originally by: Skira Ranos However, if we reverse your analogy, it makes no sense either. So you sail up to them, blow up their ship, and then try and salvage what you can from the wreckage when most of your crewmen can't swim? Not very smart, or profitable. Honestly, how is this even relevant? You're arguing conditions and not the concept. Originally by: Skira Ranos Also, if you look at historical pirates, many of them were suprisingly honorable. Sure, you have the rotten ones like Charles Vane, who **d and tortured their victims, but most pirates were along the lines of blackbeard, who historical accounts tell us was polite and even charming to his prey. Polite and charming has nothing to do with honour. I'm usually very cordial when blowing someone up and taking them for everything I can. Originally by:** Skira Ranos Oh, did I forget to mention that Blackbeard once held a governor for ransom outside charleston harbor? See, it made more sense to demand money for the governor (whom he had captured as the statesmen rowed out of the bay to visit relatives) than to raid the town, because if he raided the town, he would lose one of his valuable assets (a relatively pirate friendly town where he could trade his booty for cash and rum) and not gain nearly as much money (since the residents would hide their valuables as they saw the pirate ship coming in) as with the ransom. Oh, golly gee! There's record of a pirate extorting money from a governor! If that's what blackbeard did as a profession, maybe he would have been remembered as something else.. oh I dunno.. a notorious extortionist? Originally by: Skira Ranos So yes, I'm an extortionist, just like classical pirates were. My methods vary because my medium does, not because I'm a pouty carebear. Classical pirates were not extortionists. One illustration of a known pirate committing an act of extortion is hardly proof that classical pirates were extortionists. Here's an illustration of your impeccable logic: Ralph is a transvestite hooker. Ralph went to church once. All transvestite hookers go to church. Originally by: Skira Ranos Also, I never said anything about fairness. Ganking is terribly unfair, but thats fine. Its not fairness that bothers me, its people being lying, griefing scumbags (because they ruin our reputation as pirates at large, and thus make my victims less likely to pay me.) Awwww, is wittle Skira Ranos upset because people don't play the way he does? Oh, what's this? He's all butt-hurt because he might not get a ransom? boo-hoo.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.12 14:55:00 - [74] Originally by: Sol'Kanar If your business model (hell, if you even have a business model) revolves around honouring ransoms and getting protection money, YOU ARE NOT A PIRATE. Please read. Originally by: Wikipedia Maritime piracy, according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) of 1982, consists of *any* criminal acts of violence, detention, or depredation committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or aircraft that is directed on the high seas against another ship, aircraft, or against persons or property on board a ship or aircraft. You are a native English speaker, aren't you? So I surely do not have to explain words like 'any' or 'detention'..? Originally by: Wikipedia On one voyage across the Aegean Sea in 75 BC,[6] Julius Caesar was kidnapped by Cilician pirates and held prisoner in the Dodecanese islet of Pharmacusa.[7] He maintained an attitude of superiority throughout his captivity. When the pirates decided to demand a ransom of twenty talents of gold, Caesar is said to have insisted that he was worth at least fifty, and the pirates indeed raised the ransom to fifty talents. After the ransom was paid, Caesar raised a fleet, pursued and captured the pirates, and had them put to death. As I read it those *'pirates'* honored their ransom - that they were killed is another story We might have different business models but still we are both pirates, no matter if we honor our word or not. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
Brego Tralowski Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:08:00 - [75] I have to agree with Sol'Kanar! Just because one pirate plays a certain way doesn't mean we all should. If a guy wants to destroy after taking a ransom then thats cool, if not thats cool too. Room for us all in Eve. -----------------------------------------------
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:12:00 - [76] Edited by: Sol''Kanar on 12/02/2009 15:14:05 Originally by: H Lecter ...damning evidence... Aww **, the jig is up. I figured someone would look up the definition of a pirate sooner than just now. It was a good run, damnit! Going back under my bridge. I still think pirates that honour ransoms and and moan when others don't are still whiny ***es. Edit: I bet I got more than a few ransom honouring pirates questioning their own identity.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:21:00 - [77] This is a silly thread but it is very entertaining. People who play an internet space ship game talking about honour, extortion, and blowing ships up. Now I am going to be serious for once: Since this is a game that I use to "blow steam off after a day at work where I do think I get more gray hair then I deserve" I don't care if I irritate anyone, be it a so-called honorable pirate, a high sec carebear, or a corp mate who thinks I talk funny on vent. I will play this game the way it pleases me. If it pleases me to ask for a ransom and then popping your ship after the ransom is received and listening to you moan and groan in local then I will. If a so-called honorable pirate dislikes the fact I do this that is to bad. Blow me up the next time you see me or war dec me. It is your choice and I could care less. I will play this game the way I want and no one, other then CCP, will stop me from doing so. So, by all means, keep discussing this never ending circle jerk of honorable pirates, dishonorable pirates, people who pay ransom and those who don't. Of course Sol could have wrote the above in a more eloquent way but I'm not like that. Have fun and keep entertaining me with this thread. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:23:00 - [78] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Edit: I bet I got more than a few ransom honouring pirates questioning their own identity. True - I was one of them, so I had to check the definition myself. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:29:00 - [79] Originally by: Traidor Disloyal I play the way I want Surely nothing wrong with that. Thanks god this game encourages a multitude of playing styles. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:35:00 - [80] Shouldn't this be in Ships and Modules?
Ignition SemperFi Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:36:00 - [81] confirming Traidor's need to kill stuff, and ransom after the fact. I've had to remind him on vent to ransom ppl before. ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun. Quote: They already did introduce a counter to missiles, it's called Quantum Rise
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:37:00 - [82] Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: Traidor Disloyal I play the way I want Surely nothing wrong with that. Thanks god this game encourages a multitude of playing styles. Which is one of many reason I love this game. There are so many ways to play this game. No way is the "right" way. I may take a long break every now and then but I always come back. And before I sign off, another reason I love this game is I can pod a corp mate if he makes me a sad panda and keep doing it until I become a happy panda again. We may disagree on things in this game but we all want to see this game thrive and continue. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:42:00 - [83] In the spirit of fair play, I feel a pirate should also have to pay a ransom to the victim. That way they both get a nice ransom and everybody's happy.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:47:00 - [84] Originally by: Leiara Knight In the spirit of fair play, I feel a pirate should also have to pay a ransom to the victim. That way they both get a nice ransom and everybody's happy. Hail! And well met!
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.02.12 15:49:00 - [85] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Originally by: Leiara Knight In the spirit of fair play, I feel a pirate should also have to pay a ransom to the victim. That way they both get a nice ransom and everybody's happy. Hail! And well met! Welcome! To what do I owe this fine honour?
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.02.12 17:17:00 - [86] Originally by: Leiara Knight Originally by: Sol'Kanar Originally by: Leiara Knight In the spirit of fair play, I feel a pirate should also have to pay a ransom to the victim. That way they both get a nice ransom and everybody's happy. Hail! And well met! Welcome! To what do I owe this fine honour? /facepalm Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
Decimus Caedrius Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.12 18:41:00 - [87] <0> Not sure if that qualifies for a good facepalm emo or not, but agreed.
Tristen Orde Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2009.02.12 20:52:00 - [88] Originally by: Skira Ranos Its my personal opinion that type 3 players are immature, pathetic children. However, their way of playing the game (while disgusting) is perfectly legitimate. If you are type 1 or type 2 pirate, it is ALWAYS a good idea to honor your ransoms and 1v1s, for the sake of the rest of us, but as long as type 3s exist (and as long as we're playing an MMO, they'll be here) they'll continue to spit on our honor and make things worse for us. It's like you've been inside me, you know me so well.
Arcane Azmadi Caldari First Flying Wing Inc Primary.	Posted - 2009.02.13 02:45:00 - [89] For the sake of simplicity, for the purposes of this discussion we'll define "honour" simply as "honouring ransoms". And let's not screw around with anal-retentive definitions of "pirate" versus "extortionist", that argument leads nowhere and frankly no-one really cares- pirate is just a handy blanket term used only because we're playing this game in spaceships, if we were doing this in a WoW-type game you'd be labeled a "bandit" or a "brigand" instead. Now, there are really 2 types of pirate- professionals and... well, let's call them unprofessionals, because I really can't think of a better term. Obviously, professionals honour ransoms and unprofessionals don't. This is because to professionals, ransoming people is a business. Professional pirates are in it for the money and their decisions are motivated by how to make the most profit. While it may seem initially counterproductive for them to let a ship which is potentially a valuable lump of loot go after receiving a ransom, those on the "honourable" side of the argument have stated time and again their conviction that pirates who dishonour ransoms are much less likely to be paid and also make it less likely that honourable ones will be paid as well. To them, piracy is "just business" and they don't see any reason to endanger their profit margin just to **** people off and squeeze a little extra loot out in unnecessary displays of "badness". The unprofessionals fall into 3 broad categories- bad roleplayers, the excessively greedy and griefers. Bad roleplayers equate "being a pirate" with "being as evil as I can because I can be, har har har". They seem to have the idea that being a pirate means you have to backstab people, betray ransoms and be a generally nasty guy- because you're a pirate! It's what pirates do! They also think that this excuses their actions and people who complain about it are "not getting into the spirit of the game" and have no right to complain because they're supposed to be backstabbed by pirates- it's what non-pirates do! I'm sure we can all see how silly this is. The excessively greedy are probably the most common type of unprofessional. They want to have their cake and eat it too, which is a bit of an odd expression, I mean, it's perfectly reasonable to want to eat a cake if you have it, what else are you going to do with it? Ahem. Anyway, they want more money and if they can get some sucker to pay them and then blow up his ship and loot it as well, that's even better for them. This is simple bad business practice since not only are they LESS likely to get ransoms by operating in this way, they're also quite likely to ** people off and end up with a bounty hunter on their arse, looking to track them down and ventilate them for fun and profit. People won't go out for revenge against a professional pirate because they don't ** them off- the ransom is a simple business transaction, albeit a coerced one, and if they didn't pay and get blown up they understand they made the choice to do this- "nothing personal- it's just business". The excessively greedy who want it both ways (another strange expression, although in this case more because of the double entendre involved) are banking solely on their own strength to render them impervious to vengeance. Which is a reasonable attitude to take if you're confident enough, but it's still bad business practice. Of course, players are perfectly entitled to be bad businessmen -and we ARE all businessmen in this game, every one of us- if they so choose. And then there's griefers. ... Well, that's all we need to say about them. The problem is, east is east and west is west and never the 'twain shall meet. There's no changing or arguing with either side, so this whole debate really is pointless. But what the hell, keep at it if it amuses you.
Tristen Orde Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2009.02.13 05:49:00 - [90] Edited by: Tristen Orde on 13/02/2009 05:49:19 Originally by: Arcane Azmadi This is because to professionals, ransoming people is a business. Professional pirates are in it for the money and their decisions are motivated by how to make the most profit. This is a horrible core assumption. These 'professionals' always make the great leap of faith that honoring a ransom means making the most profit. It isn't. It is EXTREMELY rare for someone you're corp has caught and ransomed once to be caught again by your corp in a ship worth ransoming. Even less so for those of us in high security space. Due to this blatant observation anyone who doesn't honor ransoms has made, honoring ransoms is, in general, LESS profitable than blowing the ship up. "Oh great, I just ransomed that CNR for 200 mil and let him go.. nevermind the 1.5 billion fitted to the ship. But you know what... maybe the idiot will allow himself to be caught again by me or my corp!" Really, how the **** often does that happen? It's wishful and idealistic thinking at its worst. But please, keep honoring ransoms. It makes it a lot more profitable for those of us who actually understand how the system works. Afterall, the only increase in profit that is gained from honoring a ransom is for the person that manages to catch the now paranoid carebear next... not the original ransomer.
Deira Lenia Aliastra	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:03:00 - [91] Edited by: Deira Lenia on 13/02/2009 08:03:21 Originally by: Lyris Nairn Originally by: Brego Tralowski What does YAARRR really mean these days? Ooooooh, let's kill it and take its stuff! /thread edit: sniped page 4 there :+ -- Real men corpse tank Void Forums The Chaotic Order Forums
BallistaII Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:05:00 - [92] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon e-honour owns
BallistaII Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:05:00 - [93] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn You cannot spell "honour" without O U! more like... "NO U" and btw if u spell honor the american way, u can spell it without "O U"
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.02.13 09:03:00 - [94] Edited by: General Coochie on 13/02/2009 09:03:37 Originally by: Sol'Kanar I fixed your post for accuracy. Did you even read my posts or are you like the throngs of others that just gloss over the parts that you don't have a retort for? If your business model (hell, if you even have a business model) revolves around honouring ransoms and getting protection money, YOU ARE NOT A PIRATE. Coochie, I'm glad you got your name back. Now only if you could sort out what you are (hint not a pirate), things just might fall into place. Sorry english isn't my native language as you might tell. Did you follow the news when the somali pirates hijacked the oil freighter? They honored their ransom, to bad they all pretty much died in a storm and lost the ransom, at the sea next day. Oh well. No I didnt raed your post, I was replying to the OP. Vigil and Caracal, Duo PvP
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.13 14:30:00 - [95] Originally by: Arcane Azmadi And let's not screw around with anal-retentive definitions of "pirate" versus "extortionist", that argument leads nowhere and frankly no-one really cares- pirate is just a handy blanket term used only because we're playing this game in spaceships Trolled after troll admitted trolling. roffleskates. Please actually read the thread so you don't look silly. Originally by: Arcane Azmadi Now, there are really 2 types of pirate- professionals and... well, let's call them unprofessionals, because I really can't think of a better term. ...more long-winded drivel... I have my own definition: pirates that honour ransoms, and pirates who don't. Pirates that honour ransoms are characterized by being smug about their "business sense". These pirates hang out in lo-sec and pat themselves on the back over how awesome they are for running a protection racket (which, I'm certain equates to very little earned iskies once divided amongst all the hungry mouths in their super awesome corp). Many are known to get all hurf blurf about other pirates who don't do it like they do. Pirates that don't honour ransoms are characterized by ummm... getting all the hot chicks. Girls like bad boys and can see right through all the quasi-pirates who water down what it means to be a pirate. Pirates that don't honour ransoms are also known as walking, talking panty droppers. Many have spinners and hydraulics and bumpin' sound systems to let the ladies know the new hotness is in town.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.13 14:46:00 - [96] Originally by: General Coochie Sorry english isn't my native language as you might tell. That's cool, baby. Originally by: General Coochie Did you follow the news when the somali pirates hijacked the oil freighter? They honored their ransom, to bad they all pretty much died in a storm and lost the ransom, at the sea next day. They got refered to as pirates in all media, yet they didn't dishonor their ransom. Those somali's were apparently amateurs. If they can't float a boat all proper-like, I don't trust their judgement on handling ransoms. When I was a somali back in Vietnam, we didn't take no smack. Originally by: General Coochie Lets consider "real" pirates. They were not in it for the lulz, probably not primarly for the killing either (although some might have been) but the main target for most pirates I think has always been the loot/money. In my experience being honorable gives the most isk in eve for the reasons I stated above. If you think honouring ransoms is the best way to make iskies, you are flat out doing it wrong, dawg. But by all means, stay in lo-sec and honour your ransoms - I'd hate the competition. Originally by: General Coochie No I didnt read your post, I was replying to the OP. But I dont agree with your being alone at the sea with a pirate logic. In "RL" you would have yoyur life at stake. In EvE you respawn in a new pod. The stakes are nowhere near the same. You might actually stumble upon this guy 3-4 more times next two weeks. If you dishonored the first you will get no more ransoms and he can just take the killing and podding and you get a few mill in T2 loots. Compared to maybe get tenths of mill in ransoms 3-4 times. If you manage to ransom the same person more than once, the dude you ransomed must be a raging idiot. You can make iskies doing a LOT of different things in EvE. Just because you make money honouring ransoms doesn't mean it's optimal. Thanks for being myopic, it works out better for me. Originally by: General Coochie Also I agree that we are both pirates but with different buisiness models as someone else in the thread said. Only your business model is dumb. Originally by: General Coochie If you however are in it only for the kills, I think you are not a pirate but a murderer or killer. If you're in it for just the isk, there are much more profitable ways to do it. I think we all can assume pirates are in it for both.
Raven Owa Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.13 15:02:00 - [97] Sol' You Use Your Mouth Better Than a Twenty Dollar *****. I got my spinners and the chicks love it. And I put some purple neons under the NightHawk. Im gonna be on Unique Whips this weekend please tune in. The boys also put a pumpin Alpine system in it now you cant even hear the missiles launch. All BTW payed for by NOT honoring ransoms. Thanks all.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.02.13 15:18:00 - [98] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Pirates that don't honour ransoms are characterized by ummm... getting all the hot chicks. Girls like bad boys and can see right through all the quasi-pirates who water down what it means to be a pirate. Pirates that don't honour ransoms are also known as walking, talking panty droppers. Many have spinners and hydraulics and bumpin' sound systems to let the ladies know the new hotness is in town. Sol, I miss you man. Thank god I wasn't drinking my coffee at the time or I would have spit it all over the keyboard. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.02.13 16:18:00 - [99] Theres always more isk to be gained through ransoming then looting due to riggs and hulls, if you have to choose one of them. And dishonoring the ransom means you wont get another one. There are some exceptions of course. The times where you already ruined your rep by attacking the victim. I'm thinking of social engineering in high sec and gankin mission runners like vasili did in his movie, getting both ransoms and faction loots. Even if you only ransomed that guy your rep towards him would already be ruined and therefor you can just as well go all the way and get both ransom and loots. Also in that situation loot is almost always worth more then potential ransom as victim most probably can't pay it. There might be other situations as well. I'm not that into POS take downs myself. I hate everything that has to do with POSs so I don't touch em. For me I don't like that social engineering thing that vasili did. Its not my way of enjoying this game. Its not all about the isks also fun. I understand that some ppl enjoy that, but I personally don't. If you do I totally respect that. I'm quite happy with low sec piracy, it just needs to get me enough isk to keep buying ships, spirits and exotic dancers. Vigil and Caracal, Duo PvP
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.13 17:56:00 - [100] Originally by: Raven Owa Sol' You Use Your Mouth Better Than a Twenty Dollar ***. The best part is that I only charge $10! Originally by:** Traidor Disloyal Sol, I miss you man. Thank god I wasn't drinking my coffee at the time or I would have spit it all over the keyboard. I miss you guys too. We moved back into the old hood a couple days ago, but I haven't seen any of you guys around.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.02.13 19:34:00 - [101] Quote: Those somali's were apparently amateurs. If they can't float a boat all proper-like, I don't trust their judgement on handling ransoms. made me lol RL Vigil and Caracal, Duo PvP
ShadowMaiden Amarr Metal Machine	Posted - 2009.02.13 22:27:00 - [102] Honour.....in a computer game......riiiiiiiight -backs quielty out of thread- -calls the men in white coats-
Word	Posted - 2009.02.14 00:35:00 - [103] Honour rhymes with goner.
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.14 06:02:00 - [104] Originally by: General Coochie Did you follow the news when the somali pirates hijacked the oil freighter? They honored their ransom, to bad they all pretty much died in a storm and lost the ransom, at the sea next day. They got refered to as pirates in all media, yet they didn't dishonor their ransom. i didnt read past this because its another example of trying to apply real world to a game. please, THINK for a momment. WHAT THE HELL ARE SOME SOMALI GUYS GOING TO DO WITH A FREAKING OIL TANKER?! you dont park it in the back yard, you know. its a freaking huge ship. you dont hide that. blowing up a ship in this GAME yields instantly useful things...well..most of the time. im not sure how you fit your ships, but usually i get at least a few nice shiny things. they arent just going to bathe in oil, and who are you, as an average person, going to sell a tanker full of oil to? please, do not bother responding to me unless you answer that first. no, black market doesnt actually count. again, you can not hide a freaking oil tanker. its larger than a bread box, in a very visable area tracked with electronics and able to be monitored via satellite. the tanker was useless to the extortionists. yes, extortionists. the media is not always right, remember the US 2004 election?
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.14 10:28:00 - [105] Originally by: Malcanis ITT: people confusing good business ethics with medieval jousting. /thread
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.02.14 16:13:00 - [106] Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux i didnt read past this because its another example of trying to apply real world to a game. please, THINK for a momment. WHAT THE HELL ARE SOME SOMALI GUYS GOING TO DO WITH A FREAKING OIL TANKER?! you dont park it in the back yard, you know. its a freaking huge ship. you dont hide that. blowing up a ship in this GAME yields instantly useful things...well..most of the time. im not sure how you fit your ships, but usually i get at least a few nice shiny things. they arent just going to bathe in oil, and who are you, as an average person, going to sell a tanker full of oil to? please, do not bother responding to me unless you answer that first. no, black market doesnt actually count. again, you can not hide a freaking oil tanker. its larger than a bread box, in a very visable area tracked with electronics and able to be monitored via satellite. the tanker was useless to the extortionists. yes, extortionists. the media is not always right, remember the US 2004 election? If you bothered to read it in context you'd see what it was about. He was arguing that "real" pirates didn't honor ransoms, this was a recent example when in fact they did. Blowing up things in this game gives ALOT less isk then ransoming them, (unless you actually do both, but in the long run that gives less isk for a low sec pirate anyway). Ransoming gives ALOT more isk due to that about 30% of the modules drop while you can ransom both riggs, ship hull and all mods. I ransomed BCs for 80mill, I killed similar setup BCs and gotten 5mill in loot. I understand if ppl wanna stroke stoke their epeen and wanna wrap it up with their newest kill mail but its not more profitable then ransoming. Bring a ship scanner -> profit. Vigil and Caracal, Duo PvP
Ravin Abai Amarr Cruoris Seraphim Exalted.	Posted - 2009.02.14 16:20:00 - [107] Edited by: Ravin Abai on 14/02/2009 16:20:44 honor is very important to me as a mercenary and pvper in eve
Skira Ranos Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.14 16:28:00 - [108] Edited by: Skira Ranos on 14/02/2009 16:29:14 Originally by: General Coochie Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux i didnt read past this because its another example of trying to apply real world to a game. please, THINK for a momment. WHAT THE HELL ARE SOME SOMALI GUYS GOING TO DO WITH A FREAKING OIL TANKER?! you dont park it in the back yard, you know. its a freaking huge ship. you dont hide that. blowing up a ship in this GAME yields instantly useful things...well..most of the time. im not sure how you fit your ships, but usually i get at least a few nice shiny things. they arent just going to bathe in oil, and who are you, as an average person, going to sell a tanker full of oil to? please, do not bother responding to me unless you answer that first. no, black market doesnt actually count. again, you can not hide a freaking oil tanker. its larger than a bread box, in a very visable area tracked with electronics and able to be monitored via satellite. the tanker was useless to the extortionists. yes, extortionists. the media is not always right, remember the US 2004 election? If you bothered to read it in context you'd see what it was about. He was arguing that "real" pirates didn't honor ransoms, this was a recent example when in fact they did. Blowing up things in this game gives ALOT less isk then ransoming them, (unless you actually do both, but in the long run that gives less isk for a low sec pirate anyway). Ransoming gives ALOT more isk due to that about 30% of the modules drop while you can ransom both riggs, ship hull and all mods. I ransomed BCs for 80mill, I killed similar setup BCs and gotten 5mill in loot. I understand if ppl wanna stroke stoke their epeen and wanna wrap it up with their newest kill mail but its not more profitable then ransoming. Bring a ship scanner -> profit. You're right, but you're also missing his point. Sol claims "real" pirates ransom and then blow the guys up anyways. Which Sol argues gets him more isk in the long run, and is more like historical piracy. Even though he's wrong... on both counts. Edit: I also suspect that he's arguing that "real" pirates hang out in 0.0 (or high sec? He wasn't clear) but most definitely not low sec. Which also doesn't work, since 0.0 "piracy" isn't illegal... and thus not piracy... __ Recruiting
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.14 16:37:00 - [109] Originally by: Skira Ranos Edited by: Skira Ranos on 14/02/2009 16:29:14 Originally by: General Coochie Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux i didnt read past this because its another example of trying to apply real world to a game. please, THINK for a momment. WHAT THE HELL ARE SOME SOMALI GUYS GOING TO DO WITH A FREAKING OIL TANKER?! you dont park it in the back yard, you know. its a freaking huge ship. you dont hide that. blowing up a ship in this GAME yields instantly useful things...well..most of the time. im not sure how you fit your ships, but usually i get at least a few nice shiny things. they arent just going to bathe in oil, and who are you, as an average person, going to sell a tanker full of oil to? please, do not bother responding to me unless you answer that first. no, black market doesnt actually count. again, you can not hide a freaking oil tanker. its larger than a bread box, in a very visable area tracked with electronics and able to be monitored via satellite. the tanker was useless to the extortionists. yes, extortionists. the media is not always right, remember the US 2004 election? If you bothered to read it in context you'd see what it was about. He was arguing that "real" pirates didn't honor ransoms, this was a recent example when in fact they did. Blowing up things in this game gives ALOT less isk then ransoming them, (unless you actually do both, but in the long run that gives less isk for a low sec pirate anyway). Ransoming gives ALOT more isk due to that about 30% of the modules drop while you can ransom both riggs, ship hull and all mods. I ransomed BCs for 80mill, I killed similar setup BCs and gotten 5mill in loot. I understand if ppl wanna stroke stoke their epeen and wanna wrap it up with their newest kill mail but its not more profitable then ransoming. Bring a ship scanner -> profit. You're right, but you're also missing his point. Sol claims "real" pirates ransom and then blow the guys up anyways. Which Sol argues gets him more isk in the long run, and is more like historical piracy. Even though he's wrong... on both counts. Edit: I also suspect that he's arguing that "real" pirates hang out in 0.0 (or high sec? He wasn't clear) but most definitely not low sec. Which also doesn't work, since 0.0 "piracy" isn't illegal... and thus not piracy... well privateers technicly were not historicly illegal either, they were sanctioned by their government. and boom goes the dynamite. and "recent example" i am trying to get you to realize the media will use sensationalism to garner attention. they are NOT the authority on correct useage of words oh phrases. if they use the word 'pirate' to describe the incident it stirs up much more viewership than 'extortionists'. and boom goes my pants.
Skira Ranos Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.14 17:50:00 - [110] Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux Originally by: Skira Ranos If you bothered to read it in context you'd see what it was about. He was arguing that "real" pirates didn't honor ransoms, this was a recent example when in fact they did. Blowing up things in this game gives ALOT less isk then ransoming them, (unless you actually do both, but in the long run that gives less isk for a low sec pirate anyway). Ransoming gives ALOT more isk due to that about 30% of the modules drop while you can ransom both riggs, ship hull and all mods. I ransomed BCs for 80mill, I killed similar setup BCs and gotten 5mill in loot. I understand if ppl wanna stroke stoke their epeen and wanna wrap it up with their newest kill mail but its not more profitable then ransoming. Bring a ship scanner -> profit. You're right, but you're also missing his point. Sol claims "real" pirates ransom and then blow the guys up anyways. Which Sol argues gets him more isk in the long run, and is more like historical piracy. Even though he's wrong... on both counts. Edit: I also suspect that he's arguing that "real" pirates hang out in 0.0 (or high sec? He wasn't clear) but most definitely not low sec. Which also doesn't work, since 0.0 "piracy" isn't illegal... and thus not piracy... well privateers technicly were not historicly illegal either, they were sanctioned by their government. and boom goes the dynamite. and "recent example" i am trying to get you to realize the media will use sensationalism to garner attention. they are NOT the authority on correct useage of words oh phrases. if they use the word 'pirate' to describe the incident it stirs up much more viewership than 'extortionists'. and boom goes my pants. "Maritime piracy, according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) of 1982, consists of any criminal acts of violence, detention, or depredation committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or aircraft that is directed on the high seas against another ship, aircraft, or against persons or property on board a ship or aircraft." "Privateer: 1. A ship privately owned and crewed but authorized by a government during wartime to attack and capture enemy vessels." Piracy: Illegal attacking, robbing, or otherwise commiting crimes against other ships. Privateering: Legally attacking, robbing, or otherwise commiting hostile acts against enemy other ships during wartime. High sec "piracy" for isk is "privateering", as they're authorized by concord to attack. It could be argued that FW militias are a kind of privateer, since they're given free reign by a government entity in eve to hunt down and do whatever they like to enemy ships. Piracy, by definition, is an illegal act. Legal and/or comisioned acts of ransom, robbery, or theft of supplies, however the methods, are not piracy. __ Recruiting
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.14 20:35:00 - [111] Originally by: General Coochie If you bothered to read it in context you'd see what it was about. He was arguing that "real" pirates didn't honor ransoms, this was a recent example when in fact they did. Originally by: Skira Ranos You're right, but you're also missing his point. Sol claims "real" pirates ransom and then blow the guys up anyways. Oh, you honourable piwates by strict definition are indeed pirates. But I argue that you're candy-assed pirates. And those that ** and moan about those that don't honour ransoms are closet carebears because someone isn't playing the way they want them to. Originally by:** Skira Ranos Which Sol argues gets him more isk in the long run, and is more like historical piracy. Even though he's wrong... on both counts. You know what, you're absolutely right. You must be making iskies hand over fist with your super awesome honoured ransoms and protection rackets. I bow to your superior business sense. Keep firing, *****s! Originally by:** Skira Ranos Edit: I also suspect that he's arguing that "real" pirates hang out in 0.0 (or high sec? He wasn't clear) but most definitely not low sec. Which also doesn't work, since 0.0 "piracy" isn't illegal... and thus not piracy... Pirates, both lolnourable and dishonourable, go wherever they feel like going. Practical pirates go wherever the most potential profit is. Clearly your infallible business sense tells you all the money is in lo-sec. But I digress... Whether you are a self described honourable pirate or not, you're still a pirate. Those that honour ransoms look upon those that don't with disdain. Those that don't honour ransoms don't give a **** about those that do because they are too busy trying to remember which pair of panties goes back on which girl. Seriously, we're like the rock stars of Eve trashing hotel rooms and peeing on your closet full of shoes.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.02.14 21:06:00 - [112] You are quite trolly and you don't really deserve to be treated respectfully but I'm going to anyway Quote: Oh, you honourable piwates by strict definition are indeed pirates. But I argue that you're candy-assed pirates. And those that ** and moan about those that don't honour ransoms are closet carebears because someone isn't playing the way they want them to.ugh I wanna make clear that I do not moan about pirates that do not honor ransoms. Its everyones own choice how they wanna play, honorable or dishonorable. I respect both equally but I prefer to play the honorable pirate myself - call it whatever you like. Quote: You know what, you're absolutely right. You must be making iskies hand over fist with your super awesome honoured ransoms and protection rackets. I bow to your superior business sense. Keep firing, ***s! I have known for a loooooong time that piracy in low-sec is far from the most profitable way of making isks. If I wanted to I could do scams, suicide haulers in high sec, gank carebears in missions etc and making loads more isk then I do. Trust me I know how I would do it. The problem is I don't enjoy high sec pirating and I love lowsec pirating. The PvP engagements I get in lowsec, the ppl I meet, anti pies, everything I experience is just so much more fun for me in lowsec. For a time I probed mish runners and made ok isk I think but I got bored of it. Now I don't even probe mish runners anymore so I make even less isk however I'm having even more fun! Same reason I wont go back to mission runner busting I wont ever touch high sec again. I make enough isk to pay for all the ships I want, what else would I need isk for? No use having 20bill in the wallet for me. I don't like pimping ships anyway. Hell I even fly T1 fitted ships most of the time cause its so much more fun killing a T2 fitted HAC in a T1 fitted cruiser then own it with a faction BS. It doesn't stop me from visiting 0.0 though, it can be fun at times. Quote: Pirates, both lolnourable and dishonourable, go wherever they feel like going. Practical pirates go wherever the most potential profit is. Clearly your infallible business sense tells you all the money is in lo-sec.Laughing I do agree with that pirates can pirate anywhere. For me being a practical pirate in terms of isk making is however not the same as having fun. I go where I have fun and make enough isk to keep doing what I do. If you with your patronizing attitude, towards us honorable pirates, mean that in order for us to get your respect or whatever, should go to high sec and pirate there make loads of isk while hating it, I think you are doing it wrong and you'll find that we dont care man. We are doing what we find the most fun in eve whatever that means in terms of isk made while still yelling yarr in local and getting enough isk to make it all go around. Vigil and Caracal, Duo PvP**
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.15 03:40:00 - [113] well i dont do the t1 cruiser thing, but i make enough money to where if i do lose something it really doesnt hurt my wallet. i can replace all of my ships, rigs and all, twice over currently (including alts orca). i do agree having too much money is almost a problem. for one i have to decide which luxury yacht to ride in, which spinners to use, and no real use for my excesses. i did decide to get some nicer implants though. Sol even got a nice set in his head to help drain a little off. then i helped him drain something else.
Kendrix Arathan Minmatar N00bs With Guns	Posted - 2009.02.15 08:47:00 - [114] threads like this are funny, because you can watch them chase them selves around in circles. I see all sorts of "pirates" foaming at the mouth about their "honor" And all kinds of carebears foaming at the mouth about their own impotence.. It's all a matter of differing personal opinion Carebears think there is no honor in attacking unarmed ships... pirates who go through with ransoms think abiding by them is honorable and the people who just want to blow stuff up think they would look good wearing your skin.. In the end we often don't get to decide how we are labeled.. I could go around lighting peoples pets on fire in an effort to save the world from the evil diseases spread by fleas and view myself as a hero for it... but most likely public opinion would not view me that way, nor would that be how history remembered me. TL;DR in general i like "pirates", as PVP would be a hell of alot more boreing w/o them Originally by: StevieSG Verone looks like data from star trek. that is all.
Archadam The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.15 09:10:00 - [115] Ah, the common arguments that support the tragedy of the commons... To you non-economist nubs out there, it's basically about people taking ** from a common ground to make the most profit out of using that area, only to use it so much that there won't be any ** left over for later generations to use. We, in the present generation, win, but later ones get to foot the bill from the ecological havoc we passed down. That said....pirating and not honoring ransom is like this. Eventually, it'll be all out gank for any missoners with a mind. I won't mind at all, ofc, but you bastards make the easier kills much tougher and longer and rarer. I'd even support friggin Eve University if things get too bad and people act too stupidly to be cought by pirates, even before considering ransom. Just please, self destruct and LOL in local. When dirty and nasty pirates rule, there's no more pirates that have any honor, since bastards like the guys above killed any honor in the business. If interested, and you have plenty of killing skill, message me. -Arch Us Japs get a bad rap from the 'truth' out there in the West. Speaking of which, seems to be spoken about out there, about much of my brothers in arms' like my People, hated, but benevolent.
Mickey Simon Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.15 09:37:00 - [116] Originally by: ShadowMaiden Honour.....in a computer game......riiiiiiiight -backs quielty out of thread- -calls the men in white coats- Why do you find that so odd? People are able to be professional in game, why can they not also be honourable? Sure, you might not be honourable and just want to **** for as much as you can. But to imply people who treat others with respect in-game are in need of white coats is quite frankly one of the silliest things I've heard. It's a game. Being honourable in your ransoming (and your actions in general) is as much a play-style as being a ransom-dishonouring bastard of a pirate (no disrespect meant to the people that dishonour ransoms and don't claim to either!).
Kusum Fawn	Posted - 2009.02.15 09:48:00 - [117] Originally by: Archadam blarg blarg blarg, blarg blarg, blarg, blarg blarg blarg blarg Yeah - to sum up all the posts, - Some pirates have honor, some do not, the essence of being a pirate is to be, well a pirate, steal from everyone. there is this myth about pirates honor and such but really thats just for getting the pretty girls to think your really a nice guy, (of course "nice" is relative, used here in reference to the girls Want to be around you). Dont pay ransoms, just dont, expect to be killed and your corpse used in as many terrible and Dirty ways as you can imagine, then imagine some more. any person or persons will just laugh at you in local, Instead of asking for mercy, ask them about their mothers (are they nice?) it really suprises them, ask if the mets lost against atlanta again, or if they like toast, whining will get you killed that much faster, and begging will definately get you killed, - and that arch guy is recruiting for his current corp "the Scope"
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.15 16:32:00 - [118] Originally by: Archadam Ah, the common arguments that support the tragedy of the commons... To you non-economist nubs out there, it's basically about people taking ** from a common ground to make the most profit out of using that area, only to use it so much that there won't be any left over for later generations to use. We, in the present generation, win, but later ones get to foot the bill from the ecological havoc we passed down. That said....pirating and not honoring ransom is like this. Eventually, it'll be all out gank for any missoners with a mind. I won't mind at all, ofc, but you bastards make the easier kills much tougher and longer and rarer. I'd even support friggin Eve University if things get too bad and people act too stupidly to be cought** by pirates, even before considering ransom. Just please, self destruct and LOL in local. When dirty and nasty pirates rule, there's no more pirates that have any honor, since bastards like the guys above killed any honor in the business. If interested, and you have plenty of killing skill, message me. -Arch Looking to hire an economist with a bad attitude. Must speak Engrish. Your out of game reference fails. The people have to be exceedingly stupid to give aggression to you a second time. How hard is that for your economist mind to understand? They are very unlikely to do it a second time. If chance of catching them a second time is unlikely you should make the most of your one encounter with them. Go put on your helmet! ------------------------- I do not have a signature
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2009.02.15 23:19:00 - [119] Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux well i dont do the t1 cruiser thing, but i make enough money to where if i do lose something it really doesnt hurt my wallet. i can replace all of my ships, rigs and all, twice over currently (including alts orca). i do agree having too much money is almost a problem. for one i have to decide which luxury yacht to ride in, which spinners to use, and no real use for my excesses. i did decide to get some nicer implants though. Sol even got a nice set in his head to help drain a little off. then i helped him drain something else. Did those implants make the game more fun for you? Vigil and Caracal, Duo PvP
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:23:00 - [120] I think we're all getting a little excited so let's all calm down here -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:24:00 - [121] I would also like to add that the concept of honour has no place in an internet game page 5 sniper -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:34:00 - [122] Originally by: Captain Pompous page 5 sniper DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!! NOT a kublai alt. Honest!
Missy Bunnz Caldari Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:38:00 - [123] Edited by: Missy Bunnz on 16/02/2009 02:38:55 Without getting into too much detail on what really is stupid thread #192 (this year!) on honour... In a true sense, if you are a pirate, you'll likely find most of your targets that bring shooty type ships to battle are in fact other pirates. As in any war, attacking rear echelon, supply lines or "soft" targets is far more effective than attacking the pointy end of the stick. Disrupting the supply line is the way to go! To put this in context, if you offer a ransom to someone and DONT blow them up afterwards, you are doing yourself a disservice, as when this person meets their next pirate (who is more likely than not going to be someone you will or have shot at) they are more inclined to pay them isk, thus funding their operations against you. As such, your corporation should immediately execute you as a traitor, working for the enemy. tl;dr - ransom, make **** go boom, stop them even thinking of paying your fellow pirates isk. Edit : YARRR!
Alia Xi Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:40:00 - [124] Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux please, THINK for a momment. WHAT THE HELL ARE SOME SOMALI GUYS GOING TO DO WITH A FREAKING OIL TANKER?! Call me simple, but they could; 1. Ransom the contents 2. Ransom the hull 3. Ransom the contents AND the hull 4. Ransom the contents AND the hull AND the crew Just some options that spring to mind right away... (Picture now with 100% more shameless blog plugging)
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.16 03:09:00 - [125] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Captain Pompous page 5 sniper DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!! yea i know, i was counting posts to snipe it ------------------------- I do not have a signature
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.16 03:12:00 - [126] Originally by: Alia Xi Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux please, THINK for a momment. WHAT THE HELL ARE SOME SOMALI GUYS GOING TO DO WITH A FREAKING OIL TANKER?! Call me simple, but they could; 1. Ransom the contents 2. Ransom the hull 3. Ransom the contents AND the hull 4. Ransom the contents AND the hull AND the crew Just some options that spring to mind right away... yes. ransom. extortion. not keep the ship. it would be a real pain finding a parking spot for it. as a somalian pirate i refuse to parallel park an oil tanker. ------------------------- I do not have a signature
Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.02.16 08:20:00 - [127] Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Captain Pompous page 5 sniper DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!! yea i know, i was counting posts to snipe it It appears I have started some type of trend.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.16 12:37:00 - [128] Edited by: Captain Pompous on 16/02/2009 12:38:06 Originally by: Nexus Kinnon It appears I have started some type of trend. You have transplanted it here from SA forums :D e: give a man a fish, it'll feed him for a day. drop some dynamite in a lake, he'll have fish all damn week long -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Sol'Kanar Minmatar SRIUS BISNIS	Posted - 2009.02.16 13:47:00 - [129] Originally by: General Coochie Did those implants make the game more fun for you? Looks at his newly acquired breasticles. Yes, yes indeed.
Decimus Caedrius Minmatar Columbias Johnson's Journey	Posted - 2009.02.16 19:19:00 - [130] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Originally by: General Coochie Did those implants make the game more fun for you? Looks at his newly acquired breasticles. Yes, yes indeed. You ask why...I answer why not.
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.02.16 19:54:00 - [131] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Originally by: General Coochie Did those implants make the game more fun for you? Looks at his newly acquired breasticles. Yes, yes indeed. EW!! Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.

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