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Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.12 00:45:00 -
[31]
Personally I love the concept of taking systems from one another, and plexes are the only way to do that. Most unfortunately by far most FW pilots I talk to don't see any point in it, which means it's extremely hard to create an organised effort. If only people felt that conquering systems resulted in getting them more kills then that'd change overnight.
Personally I believe that offensive plexing does result in more kills, but I can't get very many people to agree with me on that. Perhaps a subtle change of mechanics is in order. Gaining victory points for conquering plexes and getting the medals ascociated with them doesn't appear to be enough reward, so perhaps items (through a victory-point store that functions identically to a loyalty point store) would be a better insentive.
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Rilwar
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.12 04:21:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Rilwar on 12/02/2009 04:21:34
The way I look at it is I want to PvP, we're playing under a dedicated PvP system, we have the plexes. That's all the point I need to plex; that's where the PvP should be. CCP gave us plexes to give us somewhere to pew.
Still didn't answer my question though. 
---O-H--S-H-I-T---
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Warlord7
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Posted - 2009.02.12 04:46:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Atraxerxes
**Sorry need to hijack this thread**
Honestly, this is great! Some one in the 22nd pointed me to this post a little steamed about some of the posts from the Ladys and asked me why I wasn't mad as well.
Simply put, I love PR and I don't care whether it's good or bad. You're talking about us. Every time you say "22nd", you basically send me 3 more recruits. Keep it up Ferris' Buellers.
So whatever you think you're doing by carrying on this crusade that we only plex, (which your guys know is not true) or plexing isn't something you need to concern yourself with, only makes me laugh harder.
Let me fill you in on a little something. While we've been plexing AND PVP'ing in Verge Vendor, you want to know who has noticed? CCP.
Now when the company that makes the game, includes stories of your accomplishments into part of the game lore for role players... Well quite frankly... We win.
Caldari offensive could Starve VV
Prices rise because of war in VV
As always much respect to FOOM, also pilots like Loren Gallen, Val Erian and the like. Who know FW is won in a multi-tiered game where plexing, PvP, solo, small gangs, blobs & cap ships all have a part.
Anyone who says their favorite part of the game mechanic is the only one that matters is just telling you openly they've quit trying to win at the part you're kicking their arse in?
AX
I endorse this product, secret recruiting post FTW
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Parmenides Elea
Gallente
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.02.12 10:21:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Atraxerxes
**Sorry need to hijack this thread**
So whatever you think you're doing by carrying on this crusade that we only plex, (which your guys know is not true) or plexing isn't something you need to concern yourself with, only makes me laugh harder.
Where in my post did I say you only plex? Both FOOM and yourselves have been pushing the whole "you get pvp from plexing" thing for a several months now, belittling any other form of pvp as blobbing or station camping. Please accept that other people and other corps have had great success and great fun by never pvping in a plex, it is possible you know! We do our thing, you do yours.
"Anyone who says their favorite part of the game mechanic is the only one that matters is just telling you openly they've quit trying to win at the part you're kicking their arse in?"
Right, so if we don't want to play the game the way you say we should we've admitted to to quiting? This is a prime example of what I was trying to say. At [WOLFY] we don't judge what you do, you guys do it well and props to you, but we expect the same courtesy.
To Daimoto Kurashi |
Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:17:00 -
[35]
Well, for the sake of argument, I'll argue that pvp can be gotten in a wide variety of ways within pvp, but as far as plexes go and people's lack of desire to do them (especially offensive ones) could it be considered a 'broken' feature because of that?
I'm not arguing that nobody does plexes, it's obvious that some do, otherwise we wouldn't be losing so many systems to Caldari :P but would the plexing feature benefit from a better reward system or not? Would it make pvp more single-sided or otherwise worse off?
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votrian alpha
The Water Margin.
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Posted - 2009.02.12 14:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: DARTHxFREE
All this generaly forces us to use gorrila warfare tactics, this includes swinging from the plex's and throwing bannana's and feaces
Correct term should be GUERILLA. Not GORILLA. Though I don't doubt that simians in 'plexs will be throwing Bananas and Faeces at each other....
V
-------------------------------------------------------
Online dating is fine - if you're a computer....
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decoherance
Gallente
The Black Ark
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Posted - 2009.02.12 14:11:00 -
[37]
I dont play Eve that much atm, but thanks to FW whenever I log on I pretty much always get some pew action.
Rather than sitting in a station waiting for a fleet to form I jump in a frig, AF or cruiser and go solo roaming,
I nearly always run into someone on a gate or plex and now and again I will run into a friendly gang who I can join.
Large blobs on the other hand are nearly always dissapointing, when FW first started there were loads of blob fights but
these days you will be very lucky to get a fight if your fleet has more than 30 people.
Stick to solo/small gangs and you will get fights.
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PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
aurorae pacificas
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Posted - 2009.02.12 17:23:00 -
[38]
Originally by: decoherance
I dont play Eve that much atm, but thanks to FW whenever I log on I pretty much always get some pew action.
Rather than sitting in a station waiting for a fleet to form I jump in a frig, AF or cruiser and go solo roaming,
I nearly always run into someone on a gate or plex and now and again I will run into a friendly gang who I can join.
Large blobs on the other hand are nearly always dissapointing, when FW first started there were loads of blob fights but
these days you will be very lucky to get a fight if your fleet has more than 30 people.
Stick to solo/small gangs and you will get fights.
Ironically solo/small gang pvp was actually at its height during those first few weeks of FW. While the herd would muster in their blobs, there were alot of us having a blast fighting outnumbered and/or taking on small gang fights.
Personally FW has steadily declined since those first heady weeks. I thought it had real potential but unfortunately CCP havn't supported it as much as they probably should have.
1) Relevence to system capture
2) incentive for experienced corps to hold/stay in FW
3) Better policing/ policy on individual corps outside of FW wardecing FW corps (touchy subject I know and not one Ive got a great answer to)
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waruiushiro
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Posted - 2009.02.12 22:51:00 -
[39]
1) Ceptors.
2) Ceptor gang.
3) Corpse collection.
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Rilwar
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:13:00 -
[40]
Originally by: waruiushiro
1) Ceptors.
2) Ceptor gang.
3) Corpse collection.
1. Huginn/Rapier // ECM
2. Defeated.
---O-H--S-H-I-T---
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Deyonius Rasium
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:48:00 -
[41]
People still do FW? I thought that died after the first week it came out?
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decoherance
Gallente
The Black Ark
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Posted - 2009.02.13 11:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Originally by: decoherance
I dont play Eve that much atm, but thanks to FW whenever I log on I pretty much always get some pew action.
Rather than sitting in a station waiting for a fleet to form I jump in a frig, AF or cruiser and go solo roaming,
I nearly always run into someone on a gate or plex and now and again I will run into a friendly gang who I can join.
Large blobs on the other hand are nearly always dissapointing, when FW first started there were loads of blob fights but
these days you will be very lucky to get a fight if your fleet has more than 30 people.
Stick to solo/small gangs and you will get fights.
Ironically solo/small gang pvp was actually at its height during those first few weeks of FW. While the herd would muster in their blobs, there were alot of us having a blast fighting outnumbered and/or taking on small gang fights.
Personally FW has steadily declined since those first heady weeks. I thought it had real potential but unfortunately CCP havn't supported it as much as they probably should have.
1) Relevence to system capture
2) incentive for experienced corps to hold/stay in FW
3) Better policing/ policy on individual corps outside of FW wardecing FW corps (touchy subject I know and not one Ive got a great answer to)
Yeah, unfortunatly I was part of the big blobs at the start so missed out on all the small stuff, but then it was my first proper taste of pvp and felt safer surrounded by the blob. 
I agree FW was at its best during those first few weeks and went downhill bigtime, but tbh I think its getting better again atm.
CCP really need to sort it out though, Im all for the idea that stations can only be used by the millitia that controls the system, would make system capturing mean something.
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Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.13 11:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: decoherance
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Originally by: decoherance
I dont play Eve that much atm, but thanks to FW whenever I log on I pretty much always get some pew action.
Rather than sitting in a station waiting for a fleet to form I jump in a frig, AF or cruiser and go solo roaming,
I nearly always run into someone on a gate or plex and now and again I will run into a friendly gang who I can join.
Large blobs on the other hand are nearly always dissapointing, when FW first started there were loads of blob fights but
these days you will be very lucky to get a fight if your fleet has more than 30 people.
Stick to solo/small gangs and you will get fights.
Ironically solo/small gang pvp was actually at its height during those first few weeks of FW. While the herd would muster in their blobs, there were alot of us having a blast fighting outnumbered and/or taking on small gang fights.
Personally FW has steadily declined since those first heady weeks. I thought it had real potential but unfortunately CCP havn't supported it as much as they probably should have.
1) Relevence to system capture
2) incentive for experienced corps to hold/stay in FW
3) Better policing/ policy on individual corps outside of FW wardecing FW corps (touchy subject I know and not one Ive got a great answer to)
Yeah, unfortunatly I was part of the big blobs at the start so missed out on all the small stuff, but then it was my first proper taste of pvp and felt safer surrounded by the blob.
I agree FW was at its best during those first few weeks and went downhill bigtime, but tbh I think its getting better again atm.
CCP really need to sort it out though, Im all for the idea that stations can only be used by the millitia that controls the system, would make system capturing mean something.
That's a high-consequence aproach, but I do like it. Perhaps penalty for not defending is a more effective insentive than reward for conquering systems. Or perhaps both are needed for players to make use of the system.
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Vilgren
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Posted - 2009.02.13 16:15:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Vilgren on 13/02/2009 16:15:41
A penalty for not defending systems? Can you propose a possible implementation for that? Who would you penalize and in what way?
I'm having a hard time imagining any way such a system could possibly have a positive impact on player participation in Faction Warfare. Pretty much any approach I can think of either drives out casual players (a faction-wide penalty) or disincentivizes floating around in space looking for a fight (a region-wide penalty). The only way I could think of it working is if the "penalty" was the loss of some reward for participating in factional warfare.
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Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.13 16:31:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Vilgren
Edited by: Vilgren on 13/02/2009 16:15:41
A penalty for not defending systems? Can you propose a possible implementation for that? Who would you penalize and in what way?
I'm having a hard time imagining any way such a system could possibly have a positive impact on player participation in Faction Warfare. Pretty much any approach I can think of either drives out casual players (a faction-wide penalty) or disincentivizes floating around in space looking for a fight (a region-wide penalty). The only way I could think of it working is if the "penalty" was the loss of some reward for participating in factional warfare.
I was refering to the previously mentioned option of not being able to dock in stations in systems you don't occupy. That's a pretty severe penalty. But I think it'd work. Not by itself though. A reward for offensive plexing to compliment it would be nice. |
Rilwar
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.13 19:03:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Aynen
Originally by: Vilgren
Edited by: Vilgren on 13/02/2009 16:15:41
A penalty for not defending systems? Can you propose a possible implementation for that? Who would you penalize and in what way?
I'm having a hard time imagining any way such a system could possibly have a positive impact on player participation in Faction Warfare. Pretty much any approach I can think of either drives out casual players (a faction-wide penalty) or disincentivizes floating around in space looking for a fight (a region-wide penalty). The only way I could think of it working is if the "penalty" was the loss of some reward for participating in factional warfare.
I was refering to the previously mentioned option of not being able to dock in stations in systems you don't occupy. That's a pretty severe penalty. But I think it'd work. Not by itself though. A reward for offensive plexing to compliment it would be nice.
I'd second that idea.
---O-H--S-H-I-T---
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Vilgren
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Posted - 2009.02.13 19:17:00 -
[47]
A lot of us would second it. Giving people an incentive to go out and capture 'plexes, at the risk of being gank-ees, would go a long way towards fixing Faction Warfare. There's been lots and lots of threads about it. It was pretty clear even back during the beta testing of FW that it didn't fundamentally change the gameplay mechanics and risk/reward equation that generally makes interesting PvP so hard to find in EVE.
Since CCP seems to be utterly ignoring FW at the moment, however, for the moment I'm just hoping that wormholes will accomplish the same thing as a 'plex with a reward would. I still wish we'd see it in FW too, though, since FW makes pick-up teams a lot easier.
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Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.13 21:59:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Aynen on 13/02/2009 21:59:24
Perhaps CCP has something in the pipe-line we don't know about yet. I'd atleast find it reasonable to asume they are interrested in making FW the best it could be. If no change occurs, I guess they prioritized something else up higher, or had different design goals. |
Rilwar
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:35:00 -
[49]
Does anyone know if there's been an actual attempt to hash out any of these ideas we have into something with more substance and proposed to CCP?
Or is all we've done as the community so far whined about the lack of ideas for FW?
---O-H--S-H-I-T---
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Vilgren
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:49:00 -
[50]
There's two such threads on the front page right now and a steady breadcrumb trail of them leading back through it's history. Back when FW was being beta-tested and shortly after it's release, threads of that nature were posted and discussed on a daily basis. Not coincidentally, the frequency of those threads dropped off sharply at about the same time most of us lost interest in FW because it was poorly designed and showed no signs of improving in the near future.
If you can, try to locate the official "Factional Warfare Feedback Thread", and also look for other threads in that time period. Not sure if they'd be here (this forum didn't exist back then, did it?) or in the game devlopment or general dicussion forums. I'm not having any luck finding a good way to search these forums, or else I'd try to link to the appropriate places.
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Aynen
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Posted - 2009.02.14 18:27:00 -
[51]
I'm sure they read this part of the forum as much as any other. Would be nice to get a CCP comment on it though, see if they really are looking into the matter.
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Lord Zekk
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.16 11:59:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Lord Zekk on 16/02/2009 11:58:55
FW has widened the scope of PVP and has made PVP more accessible to the player base. It has even given the evil pies another avenue to be evil and do what they do best. However, like most parts of the game there is a lot of room for improvement and a few small changes could go a long way to improving FW.
CCP I hope you haven't decided that your work on FW is done and that you have some more love to send our way. Here's to all the Squids and Frogs. Cheers.
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waruiushiro
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Posted - 2009.02.17 00:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Rilwar
Originally by: waruiushiro
1) Ceptors.
2) Ceptor gang.
3) Corpse collection.
1. Huginn/Rapier // ECM
2. Defeated.
3) Baiting.
4) Gankships.
5) You're an idiot.
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