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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.12 22:24:00 -
[1]
[rant]
ok I've scanned through the 5 pages of crap and am going to give my 2 cents on this subject.
At first glance it appears to be utter crap. sheer and utter crap. There is already a rift between those that don't think the SP lose is a big deal and those that do think it is.
Yes it is only a Rank 1 Skill lvl 4 to 5 takes roughly 4-5 days. Those 4-5 days could be better spent learning something else useful.
The concept itself of modular ships I rather enjoyed until I found this out and have been mulling it over in my head. I understand the concept of you need to learn the ship but once you learn a specific setup why would you forget it when it blows up? This is a half assed attempt to throw in some sort of risk to flying the ship.
Will I be flying the T3 ships? not unless the training is left as it is on SISI where you learn concurrently.
Will I be buying any T3 ships? Nope
Will I sell the parts? In a heart beat. I will gladly take your isk for nothing but garbage.
[/rant]
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Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.13 02:44:00 -
[2]
I've stated this once before the idea of losing SP for losing a ship is a bad choice. Now that I've had time to chill out and think things through I'll explain it more.
If there were crews involved in the ships function than sure I wouldn't mind losing the crews experience with the ships particular abilities when the ship went boom. hey stuff happens have to find a new crew (much like rigs)
But when the ship goes boom you don't randomly go "ahhh duh gee george how do I fly this again?" That is the basics of this thinking.
The way I think about this is is for instance my character is Amarr but I'm cross trained in Caldari Ships as well. So if I were to fly a Caldari ship (Since it's not my races ship) in theory I should lose a lvl at random needed to pilot said ship. Implement that and see how many of you that are in favor of the sp loss change over.
There are better ways to offer a risk to flying the ship. My personal preference would have been the crews which would have actually given a reason to have charisma (higher the charisma the easier your crew works for you) But I do understand that at this current point the programming aspect of having crews would be a major undertaking. Oh wait since we already have session changes the database already knows what we've done, what ships we're in etc. so in that database update if we hopped into a T3 cruiser with crews installed (much like rigs) upon un-docking the crews begin training to be more efficient. The longer they are with a particular ship the better they become. once they switch ships their experience is cut in half or even a 1/3 if it's the same load out and reset completely if it's a new combo of ship parts.
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Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.13 13:14:00 -
[3]
ok so here is what i've gleaned thus far from the 8 pages of stuff.
a select few that are in favor of having an "elite" ship that a "select few" will ever fly. While the bulk of what i've seen is against this idea.
If the bulk of the community is against something than why are you forging ahead with it? find another risk factor with the ship.
 Originally by: thelung187
Let me rephrase then, why is it that if we eject or self-destruct we don't lose SP, but if we go down in a blaze of glory, we're subsequently punished? Can we get a dev to comment on what the mentality is regarding this? I know many in the Eve community (as well as myself) are asking... "why bother"?
I believe this is a valid question. Those that are punished should be the ones that eject/SD where as those that try to take as many with them as possible should be rewarded since this is what the game is all about.
Another thought I had is go ahead and keep the skill lose but make the subsystem skills a rank 8+ I would be happy to see that since it would bring T3 ships in line with skills required for T2 and since T3 is suppose to be better than it should require more skill training to be able to fly. |
Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.13 13:56:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Miniturret on 13/02/2009 13:57:19
because I can risk my isk while still learning skills which i'll never forgot providing i have an updated clone.
In essence all i'm risking is Isk which can be easily obtainable. Real life time to relearn a skill which has been done numerous times I'm not about to risk.
As i've stated will I fly T3 NOPE i'll gladly sell any parts i find providing the price is in accordance to the risks involved in finding them. As i've also stated I believe there should be a risk to flying the T3 ships but not in a lose such as that. Others have posted ideas as well, from ship crews that gain experience, concurrent skill training providing your piloting the T3 ship, and even reducing the effectiveness of the ship so that it gains over time until the ship is lost. All of which are valid risks that the MAJORITY of eve would accept a hell of a lot easier than letting the gap between new players / mid range players / Old timers expand even more.
-=edit=- Also take a look at my one post, I've also suggested that they increase the rank of the subsystem skills and skill for the Hull to bring the ship in line with natural progression of EvE. |
Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.13 14:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Khan Soriano
Stuff
I'm pretty sure I fully understand the implications of this design and since you clearly have stated it's for the "veterans" I revert back to my previous post in which I stated "a select few that are in favor of having an "elite" ship that a "select few" will ever fly. While the bulk of what i've seen is against this idea." Which you just proved true by your own statement.
If you for the sp loss than you shouldn't have a problem with the skills to fly the ship being in line with a natural progression. racial cruiser is rank 5 (which is a current prereq for T3 cruisers) so therefore in order to pilot a T3 ship the skills should be of atleast that rank if not higher. Raising the rank of the skills should be something you would embrace it would mean more risk for piloting the ship.
Once again I will have to quote my previous post with "a select few that are in favor of having an "elite" ship that a "select few" will ever fly." AKA Elitist. You want everything for you. I'm not only thinking about myself but the other pilots of my skill level and lower. You have a new ships which can be made into anything you want (much like we've wanted for years instead of one hull with various module combo's) yet you claim no one but "veterans" will be piloting them. If that's what you believe than you haven't been in high sec recently. so following that the skill gap will remain the same if not increase further since the newer players will be the ones losing them. |
Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.13 15:43:00 -
[6]
so your fine with losing skills on top of the est. 400-1bil (figuring 50mil per ship part which is a conservative figure plus fittings) that T3 is going to initially cost until more parts hit the market? so figuring 20mil/hr from mission running your looking at bare minimum 15-20 hours just to afford the ship plus the initial 5-6 days of training to pilot it effectively. Now to a "hardcore" veteran that is nothing but to the casual player such as myself who only plays roughly 2 hours a day your looking at a roughly 2 weeks just to get into the ship.
As I've stated numerous times will I be flying T3 cruisers personally, NOPE not worth it in my opinion I would rather put those 5-6 days + any time I'd lose when the inevitable happened towards other skills which I'll never forget.
You also have to remember how many people actually read the forums or even bother to post? not many yet they are still upset by ccp's choices.
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Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.13 19:52:00 -
[7]
ok so the more I've mulled this over since I've been at work it's still meh but one question I do have for the devs is,
What has caused the "the sudden rift in the symbiotic ship relationship"? since we already have that relationship with current ships (one person controlling a carrier, dreadnought, battleship etc.) |
Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.14 14:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Miniturret on 14/02/2009 14:59:09
What has caused the "the sudden rift in the symbiotic ship relationship"?
What is the backstory behind this thinking? You are developing an mmoRPG emphasis on the RPG part what reason do you have to implement this other than [sarcasm] well shucks we dun need moar risk so we gonna punish them for flying this here ship. [/sarcasm]
Seriously though it's a ROLE PLAYING game, what reason do you have for this other than more risk?
I would like to know since we already have that relationship with current ships (one person controlling a carrier, dreadnought, battleship etc.) so if the "symbiotic ship relationship" has a rift in it is it going to expand to inculde T1 and T2 ships as well? since hey there's not enough risk to fly those either.
Also I look forward to the first person to fly one through highsec and get popped by a ganker. I hope it's one of the ones that doesn't mind the SP lose. that's not pvp you didn't have time to SD or eject, or even return fire most times. you'll jump into system and next you know your in your pod and short a few days training. sitting there going WTF just happened?
Another question I have since the ships are modular is there a chance for the ship parts to drop as loot as the modules do?
So to recap my questions for the dev's
1) What has caused the "rift with the symbiotic ship relationship"?
2) What is the backstory / reason for the rift? (goes hand in hand with question 1)
-=Edit=- 3) Will the rift expand further to include T1 and T2 ships as well?
4) Do the ship parts have a chance to drop as normal modules do when the ship explodes or are they blown up 100% of the time?
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Miniturret
Amarr
Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.16 14:58:00 -
[9]
1) What is the backstory / reason for the rift?
2) Will the rift expand further to include T1 and T2 ships as well much like an infection?
3) Do the ship parts have a chance to drop as normal modules do when the ship explodes or are they blown up 100% of the time?
4) Will a learning skill be introduced to limit the effect or negate the sp lose?
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