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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
270
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Posted - 2012.04.24 08:54:00 -
[241] - Quote
Jacob Stiller wrote:The court of public opinion is so divided on this issue that I may I have to read this "permanent record." You all are failing at your job to digest the primary documents and tell me what my opinion should be. Thinking is time consuming you know!
If you're not prepared to think for yourself and express your own ideas then you would not really be worth talking to. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
814
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Posted - 2012.04.24 08:55:00 -
[242] - Quote
Kirk Lazarus wrote:I know who I am! I'm a dude playing a dude disgused as another dude!"
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Jacob Stiller
The Scope Gallente Federation
1268
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Posted - 2012.04.24 09:04:00 -
[243] - Quote
Sasha Azala wrote:Jacob Stiller wrote:The court of public opinion is so divided on this issue that I may I have to read this "permanent record." You all are failing at your job to digest the primary documents and tell me what my opinion should be. Thinking is time consuming you know! If you're not prepared to think for yourself and express your own ideas then you would not really be worth talking to.
Bah, my sense of humor fails to translate well to print at times. In any case, you all have managed to waste 13 pages to a rather absurd matter.
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Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.04.24 09:15:00 -
[244] - Quote
So the EVE-Uni top dogs suffers from a severe case of power intoxication which turned them into dicks. Happens all the time to weak-willed people anywhere. Nothing you can do about it. Power and responsibility and yada yada. Holds true everywhere, even if "everywhere" happens to include serious spaceship games.
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Pip x2
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2012.04.24 09:18:00 -
[245] - Quote
haha, Eve university is indeed srs bzns |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
554
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Posted - 2012.04.24 09:33:00 -
[246] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:For those interested, here is the OP's permanent record thread - the thread we use to keep track of people who have/cause problems, mainly so we can all see whats going on with the ~2000 members. http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?t=53044I'll let you all make your own decision, complete with Gideon's posting here, and the fact he seems to have accounted for more than half the posts so far. I believe there is a meme for this. Something about being mad, I believe?
Tbh,
Him whining and posting alot of crap here - makes him look annoying, and can certainly see why you'd want to get rid of him. But you washing your dirty laundry in public, and not giving him credit for whatever content he did or didn't do, both reflect poorly on EVE Uni's leadership.
You should just lock down those links again, clean your posts here and back up from this, then add his name to that wikipage and just retreat quietly. Let him scream all he wants, he makes himself look like a dumbass. Right now tho, you look like a douche and a poor personel manager. There's no winners for your sides in this thread, just sore losers, and for the rest of us.. maybe some with an evil grin on their face. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Ryuichi Hiroki
EVE University Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2012.04.24 09:35:00 -
[247] - Quote
Danfen Fenix wrote:Sounds like just another day in EVE to me
Hey man, sup?
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Anya Klibor
Malum Crusis
66
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Posted - 2012.04.24 10:02:00 -
[248] - Quote
Kelduum Revaan wrote:OldMan Gana wrote:How long would it have taken to acknowledge the guy as the source ? 5 mins ? 10 mins? About 0 seconds if he had done it himself - instead he posted a thread claiming someone plagiarized his work, and wouldn't wait the 24 hour or so it would have taken to sort it out - as many of you can tell, he really likes to post. I've got money on this thread reaching at least 30 pages by midnight.
So the guy creates a thread stating that he had been plaigarized, and then was kicked for either 1.) trying to have it rectified and properly sourced or 2.) making a legitimate stink about it. And so, instead of meeting his comments with proper responses and explanations, you try to troll him, fail doing so, then try to "release his public record" that no one cares about.
Not only are you a coward, but someone who should be put out of his misery for the sake of the human race. |
Kmelx
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
37
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Posted - 2012.04.24 10:03:00 -
[249] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Personally I don't know of any corporation in EVE that would put up with
1: Deliberately disobeying your FC in a combat situation and encouraging others to do so.
2: Repeated personality conflicts with corp management and/or FC's.
3: Repeated long winded, unsolicited communications about trivial matters.
4: Repeated veiled threats and condescention to your fellow players.
5: Attempts to embarrass the player organization as a whole to force the issue.
Any one of these things should have gotten you first a warning (possibly), and then subsequently kicked from the organization. Nobody has the time or patience to put up with this level and volume of crap from one individual over completely pointless issues.
Simply put, you are not worth the time and effort.
I'd wager that most everyone who has been in a CEO or directors position in a corp or alliance in EVE would likely agree.
For those of you who can't be bothered to read the entire thread and the accompanying Uni documentation this ^^^^ sums up the OPs behaviour nicely.
A kick and ban was richly deserved. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
554
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Posted - 2012.04.24 10:12:00 -
[250] - Quote
Kmelx wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Personally I don't know of any corporation in EVE that would put up with
1: Deliberately disobeying your FC in a combat situation and encouraging others to do so.
2: Repeated personality conflicts with corp management and/or FC's.
3: Repeated long winded, unsolicited communications about trivial matters.
4: Repeated veiled threats and condescention to your fellow players.
5: Attempts to embarrass the player organization as a whole to force the issue.
Any one of these things should have gotten you first a warning (possibly), and then subsequently kicked from the organization. Nobody has the time or patience to put up with this level and volume of crap from one individual over completely pointless issues.
Simply put, you are not worth the time and effort.
I'd wager that most everyone who has been in a CEO or directors position in a corp or alliance in EVE would likely agree. For those of you who can't be bothered to read the entire thread and the accompanying Uni documentation this ^^^^ sums up the OPs behaviour nicely. A kick and ban was richly deserved.
Don't think many people disagree/argue that. I think they wonder what warrants EVE Uni's treatment of him in public tho, as that is quite telling of how poorly managed a group/company/etc is. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
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Cailais
Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance
255
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Posted - 2012.04.24 10:14:00 -
[251] - Quote
C.
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Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
271
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:00:00 -
[252] - Quote
Misanth wrote: I think they wonder what warrants EVE Uni's treatment of him in public tho, as that is quite telling of how poorly managed a group/company/etc is.
That's the main part of all this.
As for the other allegations about the op they should not even come into this argument as they should have been dealt with at the time of the incidents.
E-UNI are simply misusing their resources (info) to try an discredit/character assassinate the guy. But for a lot of people it's backfired on the E-UNI. |
Vherik Askold
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:08:00 -
[253] - Quote
Sasha Azala wrote:Misanth wrote: I think they wonder what warrants EVE Uni's treatment of him in public tho, as that is quite telling of how poorly managed a group/company/etc is.
That's the main part of all this. As for the other allegations about the op they should not even come into this argument as they should have been dealt with at the time of the incidents. E-UNI are simply misusing their resources (info) to try an discredit/character assassinate the guy. But for a lot of people it's backfired on the E-UNI.
Did we we read the same thread? The OP is the one that started selectively releasing information to try and discredit someone. E-UNI just said "If you're only going to pick and choose what you release to try and control the picture, we'll let people see the entire sequence of events."
E-UNI's biggest fault isn't releasing the information. Its not kicking him on page 2 of his "permanent record." They wasted way too much time on him. |
Gideon Tyler
Sigma-Six
51
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:17:00 -
[254] - Quote
Kmelx wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Personally I don't know of any corporation in EVE that would put up with
1: Deliberately disobeying your FC in a combat situation and encouraging others to do so.
2: Repeated personality conflicts with corp management and/or FC's.
3: Repeated long winded, unsolicited communications about trivial matters.
4: Repeated veiled threats and condescention to your fellow players.
5: Attempts to embarrass the player organization as a whole to force the issue.
Any one of these things should have gotten you first a warning (possibly), and then subsequently kicked from the organization. Nobody has the time or patience to put up with this level and volume of crap from one individual over completely pointless issues.
Simply put, you are not worth the time and effort.
I'd wager that most everyone who has been in a CEO or directors position in a corp or alliance in EVE would likely agree. For those of you who can't be bothered to read the entire thread and the accompanying Uni documentation this ^^^^ sums up the OPs behaviour nicely. A kick and ban was richly deserved.
I agree, it is in my "file" that I could not see until I was management, but since it is there it must be true. Please give me a break just because some dummy from the UNI management said I did any of this does not make it so. I would have thought that obvious, but I guess I have to make it explicit.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
562
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:28:00 -
[255] - Quote
Vherik Askold wrote:Sasha Azala wrote:Misanth wrote: I think they wonder what warrants EVE Uni's treatment of him in public tho, as that is quite telling of how poorly managed a group/company/etc is.
That's the main part of all this. As for the other allegations about the op they should not even come into this argument as they should have been dealt with at the time of the incidents. E-UNI are simply misusing their resources (info) to try an discredit/character assassinate the guy. But for a lot of people it's backfired on the E-UNI. Did we we read the same thread? The OP is the one that started selectively releasing information to try and discredit someone. E-UNI just said "If you're only going to pick and choose what you release to try and control the picture, we'll let people see the entire sequence of events." E-UNI's biggest fault isn't releasing the information. Its not kicking him on page 2 of his "permanent record." They wasted way too much time on him.
No, we're reading the same thread. The difference is personalities and perspectives.
Some prefer the lemming mentality where stupid behaviour is fine as long as everyone does or accept it, i.e. military, sweeping-under-the rug type of thing. Nothing wrong with it, clearly works for EVE Uni, CCP, and many multinational companies like Disney etc.
Others prefer a more open-minded and mature environment, where you respect people on an individual basis. EVE Uni clearly display there's no reason whatsoever to have respect or any trust in their individuals at leadership positions, just as we can see at CCP (Hilmar, Soundwave, etc). It's no insult or personal attack, just stating a fact, and there is people who actually do prefer to have it run that keep-your-buddy-behind-the-back. Many military and police forces operate in that way, it's better having a partner doing petty crimes than one that is law obiding and will report your sorry ass if you do small scale crimes, because supposedly that's some kind of team building/spirit or good in their eyes.
There's alot of people who just can't respect others that behave that way, especially in leadership positions. And clearly EVE Uni would've handled this by simply kicking this guy and then ignoring this thread, dropping to his level just.. well, it puts them on his level. Not ideal if you want to try to be respected, and show some higher moral ground, no? It's perfectly fine tho, if you are just out to 'get him', and show he wasn't 'our group-material'. (again, no judging, just a different mentality, quite common/popular as well it seems). TL;DR the only things we get from this is simply that EVE Uni don't want to win any moral high ground or pretend to be individuals that want respect, they want (demand) group conformity and leadership idolization. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Gideon Tyler
Sigma-Six
51
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:29:00 -
[256] - Quote
For example, the arguing with FC's. Never happened, what did happen was we had a speed tanking Tengu in Hagilar that was kiting and popping frigs, the fleet had gotten very scattered and the FC fearing to lose a Dominix in a bad situation ran and docked up.
I was doing my best to herd the cats back to the Dudreda gate to get them out of there, upon arrival everyone was present but a Drake, who was picked and pointed 50 km off the gate.
I burned out to try to help him while everyone else sat there and wrung their hands about what to do and was watching this poor guy burn.
An ILN Officer by the name of Elezondo, "ordered" me not to assist the guy in the Drake. We were not at war and the dude was NOT the FC, so he had no jurisdiction here. Why did he make the order? Becuase he was to busy sitting under the guns at the gate watching this guy burn and I was doing something very risky, but I was at least trying to save the guy. Something he did not have the balls to do.
This was the back-talking to an FC as Elezondo, again who was not the FC nor had jurisdiction as we were not at war, could not let it go and had to cry to the UNI management *sniffles that his "orders: that were not orders were disregarded.
I lost a ship trying this, and it was not my best tactical move, but I do not let a brother burn if I can at least try to help. Now tell me this does not sound more like the truth, and par for a UNI Fleet?
This is just an example of how much stuff in my "record" was just some sh** taken out of context and served up to condemn me. Who would have flying with you, the guy who was content to watch you burn or the guy who at least went down with you trying? |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
562
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:34:00 -
[257] - Quote
Gideon, you're not making yourself any service posting in this thread either, tbfh. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Eian
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:35:00 -
[258] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:I see my assumption was correct. 1: The issue of giving you credit was never the main issue. 2: The issue was how you handled your "request", your past conduct, and generally making yourself a pain in the ass to even attempt to deal with. 3: Pro Tip: You'll finally find success and long term employment in a given field the day you learn that YOU are not the boss, and that speaking correctly does not make your incredibly long winded insistance that you right and they are wrong acceptable. You'll find this applies in game as well. 4: Since your materials have been completely removed, your issue is over... and unless you are a complete ass, so is this thread.
Sayeth the guy looking IN from the OUTSIDE.. Again.. and again.. and again..
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Justice Comes
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:36:00 -
[259] - Quote
Quote:The irony of this whole thing is that it's only because the University has made huge strides towards behaving in a more professional and respectful manner that this event even came about
The irony of claiming you're moving toward professionalism and respect while releasing private communications isn't lost on us either. And indeed, a few (apparently brave) members have dared raise the core issue in your separate "let's all discuss the drama here" thread:
Quote:Posting that thread publicly was petty and unnecessary, a single explanatory post would have covered everything that needed covering and it should have been left at that. Feeding other people's schadenfreude is neither dignified nor what I expected from the uni.
Quote:I'm not sure I like the idea of publishing private evemails/PMs to the student relations manager...
They, and anyone else disturbed by this, should probably just be careful (or be quiet) lest their communications become opened as well. And that's the real damage here: those who value discretion and privacy will just cease meaningful communication with E-UNI members/staff. Prospective students who don't want to risk being publicly mocked will simply not join. You will never see the underlying damage to the level of trust here but that doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. I doubt it will be worth it past the short-term goal of proving you were "right" in front of the Eve community but at least you can sleep easy believing that it was since you will never actually see it.
Kelduum Revaan wrote:I've got money on this thread reaching at least 30 pages by midnight.
Hoping for more drama or even joking about hoping for it is class-less. Class comes from the top down... or it doesn't. Having such a flippant attitude toward drama you are purposely escalating in front of the entire community may be the most telling thing about your overall attitude toward your members and how you handle conflict in E-UNI.
Quote:the decision was made, for better or worse. You'll note the rarity we release public records (I can only think of 2-3 times in my long stint in the Uni), and it mostly only happens when its felt necessary. Of course, it'd be silly to deny there's some ego in this... leadership in the uni is a thankless job, specially for managers, and sometimes you need to do something simply because its for you.
Oh, so this is only the 3rd or 4th time you've done this? That's... terrible. And the comments about ego and needing to do something (releasing the records) "for you" (LOL??)... also terrible. Without an apology, it doesn't explain or excuse the breach at all. It just makes it that much worse.
Gideon set out to warn the Eve community for one reason, but I submit that we have been warned for an entirely different one.
OP, you should leave the thread now. Your job is done and you can't accomplish any more without dragging yourself down any further. E-UNI: the ball remains in your court to clean up this mess (though I will be as surprised as anyone if you can figure out what professionalism really means). Most annoying thing of the week: You failed to dock/jump because you are cloaked (in your Deep Space Transport). |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
60
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:39:00 -
[260] - Quote
Jesus dude let it go already, the more you keep carrying on the more you reinforce peoples view of you as some whiny idiot with an axe to grind who wont shut the hell up about it.
Neither side comes out of this looking particularly good but in all honesty if it was a choice between you and any member of the eve uni leadership that has posted in this thread I'd take the eve uni guy every time, at least they know when something is over. |
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Gideon Tyler
Sigma-Six
52
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Posted - 2012.04.24 11:43:00 -
[261] - Quote
You know you guys are right there is not much more that I can say about this, and the point has been made. Take care! |
Lucas Schuyler
Mortis Noir. Ineluctable.
13
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:02:00 -
[262] - Quote
I'm sorry about the plaigiarism, but that does not appear to be what got you kicked. Lighten up. |
Xolani1990
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
88
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:02:00 -
[263] - Quote
Gideon Tyler wrote:You know you guys are right there is not much more that I can say about this, and the point has been made. Take care!
That ball is going home with you now you've realised you've made an absolute fool of yourself?
I thought your former experience as a CNN journalist AND a police officer would have taught you how to avoid these kinds of embarrassing self-inflicted situations. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
562
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:05:00 -
[264] - Quote
Xolani1990 wrote:Gideon Tyler wrote:You know you guys are right there is not much more that I can say about this, and the point has been made. Take care! That ball is going home with you now you've realised you've made an absolute fool of yourself? I thought your former experience as a CNN journalist AND a police officer would have taught you how to avoid these kinds of embarrassing self-inflicted situations.
..and my dad is a policeman and astronaut at the same time, take that! Noone bosses him around when he floats with his two buddies in space for half a year, easting paste and pooping in bags. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
23
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:09:00 -
[265] - Quote
just finished reading the E-Uni thread, and I have to say that I can't believe that they let go a 45-year old CNN Journalist cop that also happens to be a lawyer and has had a lot of experience in HR (page 1 or 2 of the permanent record IIRC), and has served in the military.
Did I miss any jobs Gideon has had? I don't think I did.....Eagerly reading the rest of the tears--er, threadnaught. |
Xolani1990
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
88
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:12:00 -
[266] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:just finished reading the E-Uni thread, and I have to say that I can't believe that they let go a 45-year old CNN Journalist cop that also happens to be a lawyer and has had a lot of experience in HR (page 1 or 2 of the permanent record IIRC), and has served in the military.
Did I miss any jobs Gideon has had? I don't think I did.....Eagerly reading the rest of the tears--er, threadnaught.
Quite the resume! I can't believe he has the time for internet spaceships. He must be pretty awesome.
Or maybe a 16 year old who thinks claiming these things with no way of verifying it makes him seem important and authoritative. |
Xavier Bandar
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:14:00 -
[267] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:Did I miss any jobs Gideon has had? I don't think I did.....Eagerly reading the rest of the tears--er, threadnaught.
On weekends, he's the goddamn Batman. |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
271
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:20:00 -
[268] - Quote
Himnos Altar wrote:just finished reading the E-Uni thread, and I have to say that I can't believe that they let go a 45-year old CNN Journalist cop that also happens to be a lawyer and has had a lot of experience in HR (page 1 or 2 of the permanent record IIRC), and has served in the military.
Did I miss any jobs Gideon has had? I don't think I did.....Eagerly reading the rest of the tears--er, threadnaught.
Isn't there a rule about publishing people's real life details on the forums without their permission?
If signing up to E-UNI means they can use your details at their discretion then more fool the people that join them. |
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:23:00 -
[269] - Quote
Sasha Azala wrote:Himnos Altar wrote:just finished reading the E-Uni thread, and I have to say that I can't believe that they let go a 45-year old CNN Journalist cop that also happens to be a lawyer and has had a lot of experience in HR (page 1 or 2 of the permanent record IIRC), and has served in the military.
Did I miss any jobs Gideon has had? I don't think I did.....Eagerly reading the rest of the tears--er, threadnaught. Isn't there a rule about publishing people's real life details on the forums without their permission? If signing up to E-UNI means they can use your details at their discretion then more fool the people that join them.
Next they'll be telling him to commit suicide or somethink. |
CatreX Nolen
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
8
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:30:00 -
[270] - Quote
Thank god for posts like these while patching. |
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