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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Bodhidharma
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Posted - 2003.06.19 16:54:00 -
[61]
So did the battleship get jammed?
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Rowan
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Posted - 2003.06.19 17:26:00 -
[62]
Well, I have confirmed from j0rt that they were trying to target jam/warp jam/webify me. I held my targets until I was destoyed though so I don't think the target jamming did much good. I was so lagged because of all the containers/mines they dropped to lag us that I only got off a few shots at j0rt before my ship was destroyed. It was odd though that I wasn't podded. It's also odd that m0o/SA planned to run right from the beginning. They said they were going to "take out the bship then jump thru the gate". Doesn't sound like they really wanted a fight on our level anyways.
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Avatar
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Posted - 2003.06.19 17:28:00 -
[63]
lagging via crate dropping is an exploit and its lame.
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.06.19 17:37:00 -
[64]
na its a tactic that all army's use, called camoflauge. We fight on our own terms, don't be mad because you fell into the trap like everyone else. The bodies ya got were most likely the people we pod'd prior to your attack. we killed everyone coming in, they could have been scouts.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.06.19 17:38:00 -
[65]
We all now how "brave" m0o are using crate tactics and similar... hiding behind crates, mines and such, and also doing all they can to use any exploit available ingame. So there is your "brave" pirates.
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Arondos
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Posted - 2003.06.19 17:40:00 -
[66]
Boy it must take mad l33t d00d skillZ to lag someone out with containers so you can win. Pretty pathetic. So uber you need lag to win in a battleship...
Life isn't fair and neither is Eve. Get over it. |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.06.19 17:40:00 -
[67]
How the hell do you hide behind a mine?
I mean - c'mon now.
.
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Avatar
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Posted - 2003.06.19 17:41:00 -
[68]
camouflage is using your surroundings to hide your location.
Spamming crates to cause lag, is exploiting the limited bandwidth and latency via which the server can send info to the clients. Its not a military tactic, it has no in game explanation, its an exploit of the technology.
auto targetting ppl that target u means that u have no use for 'hiding' ur location visually.
Edited by: Avatar on 19/06/2003 17:41:58
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Xelios
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Posted - 2003.06.19 18:39:00 -
[69]
Sounds like a great battle, get some screenshots up!! =P
I respect m0o for their teamwork, but I find it more than lame that anyone would resort to dropping containers to lag people. That's not tactics, that's exploiting and cheating to win.
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Digital Sin
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Posted - 2003.06.19 19:10:00 -
[70]
ywev, do you have some sort of death wish to be hated by all of eve? or were you just abused as a child.... you seem a bit bitter. :)
"To be content,to be comfortable, is to be complacent. No one learns anything from pleasure..pain on the other hand is a most efficient instructor" |
Jael
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Posted - 2003.06.19 19:12:00 -
[71]
Exploiting lag is lame meta-gaming.
Sounds like a fun tussle, lamers notwithstanding. |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.06.19 19:24:00 -
[72]
Hi,
Just to clear some things out:
"Main Entry: 1camÀouÀflage
Pronunciation: 'ka-m&-"flõzh, -"flõj
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from camoufler to disguise
Date: 1917
1 : the disguising especially of military equipment or installations with paint, nets, or foliage; also : the disguise so applied
2 a : concealment by means of disguise b : behavior or artifice designed to deceive or hide
- camÀouÀflagÀic /"ka-m&-'flõ-zhik, -jik/ adjective"
What exact are you hiding there, since everyone knows where you are (last ship/pod kills in 24h, threat windows)? Your brains?
Bye...
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Slave 12
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Posted - 2003.06.19 19:42:00 -
[73]
"
"Main Entry: 1camÀouÀflage
Pronunciation: 'ka-m&-"flõzh, -"flõj
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from camoufler to disguise
Date: 1917
1 : the disguising especially of military equipment or installations with paint, nets, or foliage; also : the disguise so applied
2 a : concealment by means of disguise b : behavior or artifice designed to deceive or hide
- camÀouÀflagÀic /"ka-m&-'flõ-zhik, -jik/ adjective"
What exact are you hiding there, since everyone knows where you are (last ship/pod kills in 24h, threat windows)? Your brains?"
Remember, to understand moo, you must think like moo. They believe it is camoflauge because when it take 5 minutes to load they are "hidden" and they can see you but you can't see them. Most games I have played have considered things like this as an exploit but CCP has yet to say anything about it. I do hope they do because I just think it is a lame tactic. Its a tactic that cannot be countered. the 5 or so seconds you get to target incomming ships before they can target you is already enough of an advantage for ships that are trying to hold a region. Controlling the lag shouldn't be another one.
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Frizz
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Posted - 2003.06.19 20:01:00 -
[74]
Has anyone posted a legitimate explanation of the necessity of the target timer? The magnetic field reallignment is fine for an in game excuse but what is the metagame reasoning? Honestly curious,
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ShadowStrike
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Posted - 2003.06.19 20:03:00 -
[75]
Well, I do not like lag being used as a weapon. I do agree though that the tactic of using cargo containers as camoflauge is a viable tactic. It just has the side effect of insane lag. It is hard to targt someone amongst hundreds of small rectangles. Exploit or tactic, either way its here to stay. CCP has known about the lag it causes for a long time... too bad they have yet to fix it. Easy fix... since warp is always Point A to Point B (even if its not all the way) The easy way to reduce lag would be to start sending the data to your computer about what is at point B, before you get there. That way the computer can process what is there and start rendering it, instead of expecting the computer to render it the second you arive. Kind of working along the same lines as stations. You can see the station ahead of time as your exiting warp, but you can't see players or anything else till you exit warp completly.
You currently have 157 skills and 26,183,909 Brain cells |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.06.19 20:07:00 -
[76]
Frankly anybody who is using right-click for targetting needs sending back to flight school for basic training.
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var'ulfur
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Posted - 2003.06.19 20:19:00 -
[77]
well i must reply to this. moo its always good to be*****y when you win, but when you lose the tactics that you live by you best remember this fact. That every pirate outfit in history of the real of cyber world in the end gets whiped out. during beta i played the pirate game was fun but i took from other pirates killing noobs and weak corps is not real a chalange. but from what i hear you will find things much harder soon.
talk is cheap the cost of action is enormus
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Tolanthas
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Posted - 2003.06.19 21:35:00 -
[78]
Posted - 19/06/2003 20:03:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I do not like lag being used as a weapon. I do agree though that the tactic of using cargo containers as camoflauge is a viable tactic. It just has the side effect of insane lag. It is hard to targt someone amongst hundreds of small rectangles. Exploit or tactic, either way its here to stay. CCP has known about the lag it causes for a long time... too bad they have yet to fix it. Easy fix... since warp is always Point A to Point B (even if its not all the way) The easy way to reduce lag would be to start sending the data to your computer about what is at point B, before you get there. That way the computer can process what is there and start rendering it, instead of expecting the computer to render it the second you arive. Kind of working along the same lines as stations. You can see the station ahead of time as your exiting warp, but you can't see players or anything else till you exit warp completly.
ôI am the dreamer of the grandest dream; you are merely a character in it. Yet if I cease to dream, do you cease to be?ö
Sorry the containers for cam does not hold up,, The threat window is what is used to target in engagements like that not clicking on flying ships,, the mines are a viable thing since they are a threat,, The containers serve only one purpose and that is to lag the aggressors so that while thye are lagged ships can be target and fire upon with impunity and warp jam and scrambles started preventing any retreat.. The tactic works well.. We new it would and we used what we consider an appropriate force against mOo.. We new the risks and about the exploit and make no excuses it is an exploit no matter how one chooses to portray it.. It does nothing to camoflague.. Our corp is High Sec,, mOo is low they show as threats no need to manually target.. It was a good fight I dont suspect it will be the last we are involved in whether against mOo or someone else we are not a passive corp we act on what we feel is right and accept our losses as readily as we accept our victories. This has flavor of both so will leave it at that.. I congradulate mOo on taking the first Battleship out I'm sure thye will have the opportunities to try for more.
Edited by: Tolanthas on 19/06/2003 21:36:02
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M0RPHEUS
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Posted - 2003.06.19 21:38:00 -
[79]
lol sorry Cons, u picked up a few corpses out of my personal collection...nofing to do w/ SA or m0o...hehe
Ask me nicely and I won't pod you... |
TimeKeepr
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Posted - 2003.06.19 21:44:00 -
[80]
edit: morpheus, i know for myself that i picked up one corpse of an SA member, "sangsogin" i believe was his name. its quite possible i podded this character, but i dont know who else was targeting/firing on his pod
i would agree that using containers as comolauge is a fair tactic in this game. the problem with this obviously is that it crates huge lag in favor of the players already in the field with the hundreds of containers.
anyways, i do have a screenshot. it isnt very exciting, since it was taken after the chaotic battle, but it shows some of my corp-mates returning to the gate to clean the place up. btw, this battle took place at approximately 4:10 gmt, on june 19th
http://people.ucsc.edu/~mcorley/reclaiming%20the%20gate%204-16gmt.JPG
Edited by: TimeKeepr on 19/06/2003 21:53:19
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ShadowStrike
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Posted - 2003.06.19 21:54:00 -
[81]
 Quote:
Sorry the containers for cam does not hold up,, The threat window is what is used to target in engagements like that not clicking on flying ships,, the mines are a viable thing since they are a threat,, The containers serve only one purpose and that is to lag the aggressors so that while thye are lagged ships can be target and fire upon with impunity and warp jam and scrambles started preventing any retreat.. The tactic works well.. We new it would and we used what we consider an appropriate force against mOo.. We new the risks and about the exploit and make no excuses it is an exploit no matter how one chooses to portray it.. It does nothing to camoflague.. Our corp is High Sec,, mOo is low they show as threats no need to manually target.. It was a good fight I dont suspect it will be the last we are involved in whether against mOo or someone else we are not a passive corp we act on what we feel is right and accept our losses as readily as we accept our victories. This has flavor of both so will leave it at that.. I congradulate mOo on taking the first Battleship out I'm sure thye will have the opportunities to try for more.
Actually it is, not all of them will show up as threat indicators unless before the battle you set them to appear as such. Even then, not all of them pop up in the window. Thus your alternatives to targeting would be either the scanner, or trying to find the target amidst the cargo containers. The scanner would also be lagged to hell since it would require it to list all of the cargo containers as well.
You currently have 157 skills and 26,183,909 Brain cells |
Tigsen
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Posted - 2003.06.19 22:02:00 -
[82]
Why doesn't someone from one of the non-pirate corps, knowing that m0O often hangs out at the gate in question, warp to the gate when they're not there, travel about 100 km from the gate and bookmark that spot in space. Then, when m0O and company are there again, you'd just have that person witht he 100km bookmark warp to that spot and then have everyone else warp to him via the gang options? You could then proceed through normal space to the gate and not have to deal with the 5 seconds of lag while you warp in, since you'd instead be traveling at normal speeds?
Am I missing something here?
Tigsen
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DarkRift
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Posted - 2003.06.20 00:08:00 -
[83]
Interesting picture TimeKeepr. There is at least 160 cans in that pic. According to the map filters, there have been 84 ships destroyed and 73 NPC's destroyed in the last 24 hours. Cargo containers have a lifespan of 2 hours. Assuming that half of those kills happened in the two hours prior to the picture being taken, that's 79 cans. Assuming that the number of players giving up their cargo is equal to the number killed and half of those occurred during those 2 hours, that's another 42 cans. That gives you 121 cans.
If you take the ship destruction and possible cargo dumps and average them over 24 hours and add in the 10 or so ships destroyed in the battle that only gives you 30 cans.
All these 40-130 extra cargo cans are obviously being dumped by the pirates to further exploit the lag that it causes. Claiming it as camoflage is like me saying that I created a courier mission to an unreachable system just to track their secret route there. Just because you can come up with a different reason to use an exploit does not make it right.
There is only two reasons why this issue has not been dealt with. First, pre-caching the object data is too complex or impossible with the current design implementation. If this is true, there may never be a solution, at least not anytime soon. Second, this exploit is virtually impossible to track. The cargo containers have no identification as to who jettisoned them so it requires eyewitnesses to verify who has done it. Unfortunately, the only such statements that could be trusted are Polaris and GM's and I doubt that the offender would do it while being watched by one.
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Nephlite
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Posted - 2003.06.20 00:23:00 -
[84]
http://people.ucsc.edu/~mcorley/reclaiming%20the%20gate%204-16gmt.JPG
You don't need to really debate this, we contacted GMs, sent them the screenshots and they agreed that Moo's tactic of using containers in this manner is infact an expliot (most only have 1 tritanium in them).
The GMs said they will take action to deal with the container expliot, lets pray they actually do.
Edited by: Nephlite on 20/06/2003 00:29:12
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M0RPHEUS
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Posted - 2003.06.20 00:26:00 -
[85]
oh no!! not angry GMs again!!!! lol...pirates will adjust...they always will. we are the*****roaches - the only thing that will be alive after a nuclear armageddon...
Ask me nicely and I won't pod you... |
Noctoz
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Posted - 2003.06.20 00:35:00 -
[86]
Sounds like a really nice fight.
Things like this spice up the game.
But let me jsut ask all the pirate guys one thing. WHY so you intentionally try to cause lag. In other games there area programs that cause opponents to lag but no matter how you do it I whould label it cheating.
You area good fighters from what I have heard so for goods sake drop lame things like that.
------------------
NoctoZ
Black Reign
Curse Alliance |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.06.20 00:45:00 -
[87]
Quote:
oh no!! not angry GMs again!!!! lol...pirates will adjust...they always will. we are the*****roaches - the only thing that will be alive after a nuclear armageddon...
Does 'adjust' read as 'find new exploits'?
Exploiters need to be stripped of all skills and equipment - banning them would be to mild a punishment. Making them start over is what really hurts in EVE.
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.06.20 00:46:00 -
[88]
Hi,
good idea Tharrn. I really like it :-).
Bye...
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
DarkRift
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Posted - 2003.06.20 02:20:00 -
[89]
Just trying to get this thread to show back up on the boards.
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M0RPHEUS
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Posted - 2003.06.20 03:40:00 -
[90]
lol OK...i got 2 accounts, if i get nerfed for using the holes CCP made then im quitting :P plus, none told me it was an exploit...
Ask me nicely and I won't pod you... |
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