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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.02.22 07:26:00 -
[31]
GTFO and go back to WoW.
Welcome to a world where you have to fight to defend what you hold precious.
Stimulus |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.02.22 08:21:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs:
War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameGǪ. Less $$ for CCP.
If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas.
It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower.
As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game.
Working as intended.
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Georgina Eldridge
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Posted - 2009.02.22 12:47:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2009 20:03:55 Which is exactly the problem, 90% of the wardecs have nothing to do with disrupting logistics
Yes sadly carebears are so protected on all sides its virtually impossible to actually disrupt logistics anymore. The only resource you can really fight over is moons.
To the OP: Can i have your stuff?
You don't get it. Or you do get it but you just act like you don't get it.
By far most wardeccers aren't intrested at all in disrupting anything, they just want easy kills.
Or they like PvPing in Empires space, want small gang or 1v1 fights and don't want to get invoved in 0.0 politics and POS sieges.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas
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Posted - 2009.02.22 21:14:00 -
[34]
meh, stay in an npc corp if you don't like wars.
Though I wish you could war dec those too :)
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Random Womble
Minmatar Master Miners Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.02.22 23:35:00 -
[35]
Right now my alliance is involved in a war with another who ****ed us off claimed space where we lived was theres and were a general annoyance we have killed one barge in high sec the rest have been PvP ships and the occasional hauler on top of that we have killed 2 of their empire POSs something which we could not have done if you got your change. Im sure there are some people there that are out to grief noobs but at the same time you want to be in a corp and have the advantages that come from that you have to take the good and the bad like war decs and corp theives and spys its all part of the game.
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Matrixcvd
Caldari Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2009.02.23 00:11:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Martha Lightyear No need to remove it.
Just raise fees from current 2mil to 100mil every week. You can bet 99% of griefers will quit annoying decent players, and only reasonable wars will happen.
For the moment, NPC are the only solution. Why you think so many players stick to their NPC? For pleasure?
what does responsible PVP mean? cold harsh universe, if you undock you could die, you get griefed, move somewhere else, pay the ransom do whatever, or get tough and join a real corp...
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Skylar Flame
Gallente Brackish Water
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Posted - 2009.02.23 01:10:00 -
[37]
OP needs to GB2WOW |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ
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Posted - 2009.02.23 08:30:00 -
[38]
nothing wrong with the mechanic, just the reasons for the wars. I doubt that CCP had "opportunity to get easy kills" in mind when they came up with the system, more likely corps warring over access to resources. That said, CCP only have them selves to blame for the present situation since the make hisec resources so ridiculously plentiful that industrial corps have no need to fight each other, leaving the mechanic in the hands of those looking for some pew pew in hisec. If resources were harder to come by, maybe some of those looking to pew pew would find a home in a pvp wing of an indy corp as it fought over a good system. A load of corps competing with each other by any means (trade/industry/war) would be far more realistic that the absurd fragmentaion into pure griefing and pure carebear corps we have in hisec now...
well mannered a**h*** |
Gil Warden
Gallente Intergalactic Trade and Transport Corporation The Fifth Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.01 00:29:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kaidelong Einfachs Edited by: Kaidelong Einfachs on 16/02/2009 12:53:02
Also maybe make it free for a defending corp to extend a wardec (so that declaring war doesn't mean you'll be free of it after a week if it turns out you miscalculated).
...
PS: Maybe concord should get ****ed if a corp that hasn't paid for a war dec helps a corp that did in a fight with the decced corp via logistics. At least make it so that the attackers have to all dec and can't work around it by sending a large fleet of reppers to help out some guy's mega.
1. War-decs should be more expensive, 50-100 mill per week seems more reasonable. As a minor deterrent the war-deccing corp should be saddled with the weekly expense for an additional 2 weeks if they retract their war-dec without having their target surrender. The problem seems to be that griefers can wardec at practically no cost, and start hunting players not used to low-sec conditions (primarily for easy kills, which imho does make the griefers look really pathetic).
2. That you become a part of the war if you assist a warring party, at least the war-deccing party, is a good one too.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.01 00:33:00 -
[40]
If you're not prepared to fight (or otherwise survive) a war, you're not ready to form a corp. Stay in a larger, stronger corp until you have the resources, skills and experience to survive.
The problem is not that wardecs are not expensive enough but that creating a corp is too easy and cheap.
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:21:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs:
War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP.
If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas.
It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower.
As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game.
if people want to PvP in WoW they can go to battlegrounds... the people that quit as a result of being wardecced IS A GOOD THING if you dont want to be wardecced dont spam local with "defenceless carebear corp consisting of 16yo's recruiting now" or whatever it is that you do... people like you are soooo tastyyy!!! instead of leaving the game, why dont you join a massive alliance like intrepid crossing or something thats where you go these days to avoid wardecs and just hide behind the blob. A++ will reply again
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FU22
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:46:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'll agree with changing wardecs as soon as hisec is less profitable. When the ability to make huge wads of cash in Hisec is crippled, then we can talk about nerfing wardecs.
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letni Smith
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.03.01 04:35:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars.
CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve.
^^ What he said ^^
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.01 07:45:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs:
War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP.
If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas.
It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower.
As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game.
----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong." |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.01 10:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars.
CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve.
Wow, you've changed!
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.01 10:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars.
CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve.
Wow, you've changed!
She had to appear slightly less like a loon to gather votes.
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Krans Hopeson
Apache Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.01 16:52:00 -
[47]
Quote: It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower.
As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. Sad
Baaaaawwwwwwww.
...can I have your stuff? -- "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." |
Motaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.03 01:47:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'll agree with changing wardecs as soon as hisec is less profitable. When the ability to make huge wads of cash in Hisec is crippled, then we can talk about nerfing wardecs.
This.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.03.03 04:59:00 -
[49]
Clicking undock is the "I consent to the possibility of someone blowing up my ****" button
Wardec or not.
Make it better or more dynamic, but even this carebear agrees it needs to stay |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.03 09:46:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Motaka
Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'll agree with changing wardecs as soon as hisec is less profitable. When the ability to make huge wads of cash in Hisec is crippled, then we can talk about nerfing wardecs.
This.
Exactly. If you want starter-area safe-zones, then you only get to make starter area ISK in them.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.03 09:50:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars.
CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve.
Wow, you've changed!
She had to appear slightly less like a loon to gather votes.
What does she need votes for now?
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Axel Vindislaga
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Posted - 2009.03.04 03:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil GTFO and go back to WoW.
Welcome to a world where you have to fight to defend what you hold precious.
I agree with this HOWEVER.. EVE is an MMO where low skill players can be victorious over players with actual skill due to the skill treadmill.
If when a war was declared and a player was suddenly limited a total SP cap while the war was active you;d see actual PVP and not MMO losers griefing Lowbies.. I am returning to FPS.. PVP in eve interested me for as long as it took me to understand exaclty what PVP in an MMO environment means.
If I made an MMO there would not be the concept of Leveling or skills.. just you and your wits... the landscape and mechanics at your command or someone elses what ever.. but not being able to pilot a ship the equivalent of your enemy even though you can afford it really destroys the illusion that there is Even PVP in EVE... the reality is CVC Character vs Character
and you know what.. I am actually thinking of taking another look at wow and seeing how it is coming along... but I wont because I know that all that storyline NPC quest crap will still be there. So yeah.. Axel's experiment into MMOs is over and the battlefields of Armed Assault 2 await me. I will miss my corp mates but not the ass hats that made its such a struggle to enjoy Eve. And you know what its utterly hilarious sickly stupidly amusing that the upcoming release of Walking in stations and new stuff that new players wont be able to use... It really interested me.. but I realize that it wont get rid of the terrible problem with REAVERS that the empire authorities do nothing to stamp out.
I've been eaten enough times.. I think I can lay my character to rest and stop feeding the REAVER Piranhas
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Axel Vindislaga
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Posted - 2009.03.04 03:43:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Insa Rexion nothing wrong with the mechanic, just the reasons for the wars. I doubt that CCP had "opportunity to get easy kills" in mind when they came up with the system, more likely corps warring over access to resources. That said, CCP only have them selves to blame for the present situation since the make hisec resources so ridiculously plentiful that industrial corps have no need to fight each other, leaving the mechanic in the hands of those looking for some pew pew in hisec. If resources were harder to come by, maybe some of those looking to pew pew would find a home in a pvp wing of an indy corp as it fought over a good system. A load of corps competing with each other by any means (trade/industry/war) would be far more realistic that the absurd fragmentaion into pure griefing and pure carebear corps we have in hisec now...
Resources ARE hard to come by.. and it IS the reason for War Declarations. You people have no idea what the "Carebears" are doing. They are making your stupid PVP possible by supplying vast amounts of minerals, ships, modules, ammunition and EVERYTHING else to you only to get griefed and slammed for playing the hard game and running the EVE economy. The player I have quoted here is the perfect example of a REAVER. A totally mindless killer who casually refers to the destruction of the aspirations of other players as "pew pew".
This is why in RL empires were forged with the millions who banded together in order to defend themselves from swirling evil of pure chaos...
On the subject of swirling chaos.. When I visit Nulsec and see all those untouched belts and realise the massive potential there but then attempt to speak to a Local REAVER gang and get chased off for spying so me and my "carebear" corp have to stay in highsec and be insulted...
So stupid.. so sad. And all based on the ability of an old character to hide behind their char sheet and insult "carebears".
How about you bring it to an FPS server and I'll paint the server red with your unskilled RL minds slow reflexes and lack of instinct or you can do that to me... either way its fun... not like here
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Iwant Urstuff
Amarr Iwant Urstuff Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.04 11:39:00 -
[54]
We need more War Decz!!! A corp can only currently have 3 War Decz running CCP should at least double thiz to 6. I do not support your idea of a carebear heaven in Hi Sec. Don't turn EVE into Sim Space.
!!!revo lla ti puah zld FFUTSRU tuaw op I |
Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:52:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Axel Vindislaga Resources ARE hard to come by.. and it IS the reason for War Declarations.
You are correct here. Resources are hard to come by because everyone else is out to get their hands on the massive amount of available resources. War decs play right into this. "Penny my buy/sell orders and you get a dec."
Originally by: Axel Vindislaga You people have no idea what the "Carebears" are doing. They are making your stupid PVP possible by supplying vast amounts of minerals, ships, modules, ammunition and EVERYTHING else to you only to get griefed and slammed for playing the hard game and running the EVE economy.
..........
The rest of this drivel is pointless. "You People", as in the people declaring war, know EXACTLY what the "Carebears" are doing because... *GASP* Their ALTS are the CAREBEARS. Sure they will deny it... but its the truth.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:33:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 09/03/2009 22:33:47 War Dec's are no longer made over resources.
That is an utter lie and you people know it.
War Dec's are made over whatever the hell they want to make it over...and over 95% of them are over "Because they can and want to kill your ships" reason.
As for the "carebears" whom you refer to being the ones manufacturing those ships and materials.
"Well duh"
If you can't see that...your really are blind.
The market is player driven... that stuff doesn't come from some fanciful fictional time warp in space... its manufactured... or gathered from missions.
The greater majority of industry and manufacturing takes place in 0.0 space however... as most corps have to be very large or in an alliance as no new corp ever makes it past the gauntlet of war-dec greifing that takes place.
You want to make War-dec's more interesting?
Take away the single reason why they happen in the first place (the ability to kill without concord) and make it literally what you "pretend" to think it is.
If it was over resources... then make it over resources LITERALLY.
Include materials... ships...BPO's... territory... there are many things of value that would put the motivation and driving factor in war-decs.
But as it is... war-decs are literally a joke to me... ok... Corp A War-decs Corp B.
Wow.... Corp A is doing it because Corp B is small and easy prey.. Corp A will never war-dec someone bigger than they are unless they get other corps to join in.
Corp B leaves Corp and goes to Alts.
Waht did you expect to happen? Them sitting there letting you blow up?
Welcome to Game Theroy 101 folks.... that or human nature.
I have no issues with War-decs... but stop fooling yourselves... try 0.0 space for a bit and see what REAL war-dec'ing is all about.
War-Dec's are an outlet to forced PVP.
Regardless of what you people think of EVE... its not about 100% non-consenual PVP. If it was... it would be much like Warhammer online and anyone and everyone would PVP anywhere at anytime.
Of course I wouldn't like it very much if it was No PVP at all in High Sec... it would make life rather boring.
My point is... seek a middle road... a balance... and stop making crap up for enforcing either side.
The carebears hate it.... because its forced on them... so build a mechanic that will make it a bit lucrative for them to fight back.
the PVP'ers like the blood and the tears.... fine.... make it a BIGGER and more DIFFICULT challenge... not the "I-Win" button they smack because they have more ships than you do.
ISK is too easy to make.. war-dec's fees are too damn cheap.... this cycle will be exponentially infinite and impossible to stop until you both.... manage to agree on something. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.03.10 01:41:00 -
[57]
Edited by: De''Veldrin on 10/03/2009 01:44:13 At the risk of needing fire proof undergarments, I'm going to take a stab at offering some fixes for War-deccing.
1) Both corps involved become locked. That is neither can add or drop members during the war - if players leave the corp of their own volition, the war target flag follows them for 7 days or until they get podded once. Also, they can't rejoin the corp until after the war. 2) Wardec fees go up. 10,000,000 (+ 10,000,000 for every other war dec you have currently open) to declare a wardec. Weekly fee of 1 ISK per skill point difference between SP total of Deccing corp and SP total of Target corp, with a minimum of 2.5 million per week. So, if you have a 20 million SP corp, and you dec a 10 million SP corporation, it's going to cost you 10,000,000 a week. Admittedly, that's mostly aimed at reducing the griefing. But if you REALLY want to great, by all means, pay for it. 3) NPC Bribery. Both sides can bribe NPC corporations to take sides. Fees would be exorbitant (on the order of tens of millions) and of course the other side can out bid. Suddenly, NPC stations might start refusing to let you dock and shooting at you. 4) Spies. Specifically NPC spies that could be hired to report not only player locations, but ship fits, etc. 5) Surrender. Allow one corp or the other to surrender - basically they make a surrender offer and the other corp gets to accept or decline it - they could sweeten the pot with ISK or equipment, what have you. 6) Redecs. Wardeccing the same corp within 30 days doubles all associated fees - again, this is aimed at lowering greifing.
That's all I've got at the moment. It's all off the cuff - and let's face it, it's not going to change any time soon. I'm mostly just trying to offer some kind of solutions, rather than just whining about it.
--Vel
There is no right or wrong way. There is only what works and what leaves you waking up in a clone vat. |
Echthalian
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.10 20:15:00 -
[58]
what corp are you in?
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Lady Aja
Caldari IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2009.03.11 10:05:00 -
[59]
when i grow bored of alliance life I tend to go into my one man corp...
I then go back to my ore stealing and killing darwins..
Occasionally I see a corp ripe for ransoming.. 400-500m.. one man corp vs a 20-50 man corp.. I dont war dec one corp at a time i war dec 3 or so if i can.
begining of the week i send a email to allt he ceo's i am at war with... I then go hunting and kill anyone i can find. then send that person an email saying... blame youre ceo for not paying up.
so removal of the war dec system while good for some aint good for all. if paying to war dec another corp was raised to 50-100m isk then what would war deccing an alliance cost? 250-500m isk? PER WEEK at that
hell one of these days i must one man war dec an alliance lol....
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The PitBoss
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.12 08:10:00 -
[60]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 12/03/2009 08:11:48
Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs:
War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP.
If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas.
It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower.
As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game.
High Sec War Dec ... someone called?
CONFIRMING ... please escrow all your stuff to me on your way out ...
Honestly though ... If you don't like high sec war decs ... then STAY IN AN NPC CORP ... they are immune
Thank-You,
The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss)
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
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