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Oppih Nogard	Posted - 2009.02.15 18:09:00 - [1] Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game.
Efrim Black Gallente Apellon	Posted - 2009.02.15 18:21:00 - [2] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. Can I have your stuff? Seriously, I'm a bit low on cash at the moment. As for your proposal, thats never going to happen. Everyone knows the War-dec system needs an overhaul, but to eliminate it at all would cause an up-roar, and personally **** me off. So yeah, game name is efrim black, feel free to pass me some stuffs. I have some new guys in my corp who can always use some extra cash or ships. ^_^
Martha Lightyear	Posted - 2009.02.15 18:26:00 - [3] No need to remove it. Just raise fees from current 2mil to 100mil every week. You can bet 99% of griefers will quit annoying decent players, and only reasonable wars will happen. For the moment, NPC are the only solution. Why you think so many players stick to their NPC? For pleasure?
Khanoonian Singh	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:01:00 - [4] Perhaps, you could make a macro for surrendering, it would probably be similiar to the macro you use for mining. Nothing wrong with the current war dec rules except the limit on them.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:07:00 - [5] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. Have a nice life. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:19:00 - [6] Quote: Nothing wrong with the current war dec rules except the limit on them. Euhm, right. Wardecs are flawed atm, removing them is not an option though. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Martha Lightyear	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Khanoonian Singh Perhaps, you could make a macro for surrendering, it would probably be similiar to the macro you use for mining. Nothing wrong with the current war dec rules except the limit on them. Originally by: Furb Killer Euhm, right. Wardecs are flawed atm, removing them is not an option though. Go low-sec kthx p.s. not enough nuts? keep killing miners you are brave people laugh out loud at your killboards full of hulks and retrievers
Khanoonian Singh	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:37:00 - [8] Edited by: Khanoonian Singh on 15/02/2009 19:39:14 Originally by: Furb Killer Quote: Nothing wrong with the current war dec rules except the limit on them. Euhm, right. Wardecs are flawed atm, removing them is not an option though. What's the problem, pay a fee, kill some targets. edit: Have you seen my killboard, or our killboard? Yeah, we kill miners if we find them, haulers too, thats what privateers do interrupt trade. However, the majority of our kills, and mine, are on combat ships. As far as the laughing, haven't heard any, but the more they laugh the more likely they are the ones who refuse to undock when decced, or do nothing but play docking games.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.15 20:04:00 - [9] Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2009 20:03:55 Which is exactly the problem, 90% of the wardecs have nothing to do with disrupting logistics, removing those stupid miners from the system you want to mine in, not liking the colour of the ships they fly in, etc. The only reason for 90% of the wardecs is just easy targets: Risk free pvp. No point in denying it. I don't say you do it, i say 90% of the wardecs are that way. And yes i made that 90% up, but i think it is pretty close. And Martha, about me, i live in 0.0, providence. I am NRDS and never even have been in a corp which declared war on another one. It is always the other way arround, people looking for afk haulers wardeccing us. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2009 20:03:55 Which is exactly the problem, 90% of the wardecs have nothing to do with disrupting logistics Yes sadly carebears are so protected on all sides its virtually impossible to actually disrupt logistics anymore. The only resource you can really fight over is moons. To the OP: Can i have your stuff?
Zenethalos Minmatar Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. I lol'd pretty damn hard. Sure a lot of as*hats dec for easy ganks against noobs what can you do. As it stands in noir. we get paid to kill WT's and I think those on the recieving end have it easy. We dec you leave your corp for the week and keep making isk. While we are bound by contract to sit by and camp station AFK'rs, the dec is in their favor. Grow up and can I has all your stuff.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2009 20:03:55 Which is exactly the problem, 90% of the wardecs have nothing to do with disrupting logistics Yes sadly carebears are so protected on all sides its virtually impossible to actually disrupt logistics anymore. The only resource you can really fight over is moons. To the OP: Can i have your stuff? You don't get it. Or you do get it but you just act like you don't get it. By far most wardeccers aren't intrested at all in disrupting anything, they just want easy kills. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Covert Kitty Amarr Rock Grinders	Posted - 2009.02.15 22:23:00 - [13] I have absolutely no problem with wardec's at all, however I do think 2m / week represents absolutely no barrier at all, why not just make it free? If people feel there should be some kind of cost, then make it something more sensible, say like 20-50 mil. 2mil is a joke, nobody is going to care about that.
Zenethalos Minmatar Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.15 22:30:00 - [14] I agree 2m is not a deturent by any means. Starting war dec fee's at 50m makes much moar sense. Griefers that take easy kills from noobs probably wont break a profit and after a month are out 200m +
N'irrti Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.02.15 23:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Furb Killer By far most wardeccers aren't intrested at all in disrupting anything, they just want easy kills. Which tbh is completly fine.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.16 01:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Esmenet on 16/02/2009 01:02:08 Originally by: Furb Killer You don't get it. Or you do get it but you just act like you don't get it. By far most wardeccers aren't intrested at all in disrupting anything, they just want easy kills. Thats completely irrelevant. Dont be such an easy kill then.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:20:00 - [17] I'll agree with changing wardecs as soon as hisec is less profitable. When the ability to make huge wads of cash in Hisec is crippled, then we can talk about nerfing wardecs.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.02.16 07:46:00 - [18] Wardecs are essential to the game. Without them... there would be much less destruction in the game. Which would be bad for the game. Stupid wardecs without definition or purpose is the real culprit in the game. Having 20 people wardec a stationbear alliance, or wardec another corp of giant numbers that they couldnt possibly fight. Being wardecced makes you play the game differently. Even if the entire other corp is offline. This essentially fits in as griefing. You pay a measly nonexistent price. Just to cause other people ingame to play differently. That isnt fun. They need to bring a much more advanced interface to wars. Setting goals: -Destruction or removal of a pos @ X place. -X amount of damage inflicted. -# of ships destroyed. -Ransom amount. Then depending on how much you want to inflict and your goals, Is how much the war costs. Obviously the person getting wardecced wouldnt see what the goals are; exception being ransom. As for op... leave ur corp and goto nub corp if you cant deal with it. Or go play an alt. You have 2 other characters on your account. No reason you cant go play one of those while the wardec dies out. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.02.16 09:12:00 - [19] There has to be ways to interfere with other players and try to force things to change to your favor, since we all live in one big sandbox. In highsec the wardec -system is the only real tool available to do this. It is sometimes a blunt tool, that could be replaced by a more refined mechanic in some cases, but sometimes it is exactly what is needed. The reasons for wardecs, that I have personally been a part of are: -Personal insult/aiding friends -Denying the other some resource -Getting more targets in your area of space. The corps targetted are selected for a reason, but for them it might seem random. Either they use the same resources as us, one of their member might have a bad history with us or they are likely to actually fight. This means sometimes deccing corps with superior numbers, so they might actually come out and fight. The whole point is to force the others to play their game differently. In the case of denying a resource or aiding a friend, it doesn't matter, if they are offline during the wardec. The goal is accomplished in any case. People know how the system works and can guess how the opposite side reacts. They can then use this knowledge to achieve their goals. I wouldn't object to adding actual goals to wardecs, allowing advanced options and tweaking the price, but total war must remain an option. The reasons and meaning for wardecs should be defined by the people who start the war and not be limited to some pre-defined options by CCP.
NereSky Gallente Domination. Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.16 09:57:00 - [20] Edited by: NereSky on 16/02/2009 09:56:54 Totally disagree with the op , a war dec no matter what the reason has purpose and if the Dec is against new players then the war dec gives them a intro into PvP and PvP game mechanics in Empire, There is a positive in every negative, enjoy the war have fun it wont last forever lol
Stick Cult	Posted - 2009.02.16 10:20:00 - [21] I don't think they should be removed, part of EVE is that there's no place safe from pvp. However, the fees should definitly be raised, 25mil at least. 2mil for a war dec is pointless, because anyone can afford it, and 1 kill during the week can pay for that 2mil many times over.
Ankhesentapemkah	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:38:00 - [22] Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars. CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve. --- NEW MOVIE!
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:48:00 - [23] The fix is to remove highsec and watch the problem disappear. One client: Three Screens!
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:58:00 - [24] 1/10 troll has been tried alot and better
Kaidelong Einfachs	Posted - 2009.02.16 12:49:00 - [25] Edited by: Kaidelong Einfachs on 16/02/2009 12:53:02 Originally by: Martha Lightyear No need to remove it. Just raise fees from current 2mil to 100mil every week. You can bet 99% of griefers will quit annoying decent players, and only reasonable wars will happen. 2 mil to dec a corp does seem a bit cheap, you can get that much in 20 minutes, it's utterly trivial. I understand the logic of having it increase in cost with multiple to discourage people from using it for kicks but I think better would be having it discounted (or free) if the target corp has had recent aggression timers with the declaring corp. Also maybe make it free for a defending corp to extend a wardec (so that declaring war doesn't mean you'll be free of it after a week if it turns out you miscalculated). Otherwise it should be more expensive than it currently is, a strong corporation that doesn't have to defend anything stationary could wardec whoever they please without their target able to defend themselves in any meaningful way and hide away if it turns out that they can and wait out the war until the check is no longer theirs to pay. Wardecs aren't really that bad if they happen once every few months to a corp that doesn't bother anyone. It doesn't much make sense, but if the random griefing is infrequent it's manageable because there is time to rebuild after the fighting. It gets ridiculous if an uncoordinated war dec follows after another, though, or if you have to deal with three in the same month, etc, which has been happening lately. I don't think removing them is a good idea since it'll effectively give impunity to highsec pirates that don't get on the wrong side of concord, like a can flipper in a shuttle. They should however be a more significant decision than they are now, you shouldn't be motivated to simultaneously wardec two corps you never heard of before just for the fun of it, and it definitely should not be cheap. Making wars more costly might help as an ISK sink against the inflation introduced by bounties and mission payments, anyway, if inflation is a problem. Not supporting this topic PS: Maybe concord should get ****ed if a corp that hasn't paid for a war dec helps a corp that did in a fight with the decced corp via logistics. At least make it so that the attackers have to all dec and can't work around it by sending a large fleet of reppers to help out some guy's mega.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.16 20:23:00 - [26] Or you know, you could band together as empire industrial corps into this fancy thing called an alliance, you know, the sorta thing that deters random wardecs? ...just a thought.
Stick Cult	Posted - 2009.02.16 22:19:00 - [27] an alliance needs quite a bit of ISK and skills, not as simple as just "making an alliance"
Nnamuachs Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.16 23:41:00 - [28] Originally by: Stick Cult an alliance needs quite a bit of ISK and skills, not as simple as just "making an alliance" perhaps the same thing should be required of corps? a bit more isk.. say 50 mil atleast to make one? that would also help this problem.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.16 23:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. CCP have stopped all wardecs vs NPC corps. If you want to chat with friends, then go ahead and do so via a chat channel. If you want to be in a player corp, then you open yourself up to pvp via wardecs. Thats the whole point of a player corp. The first thing new corps should do is build up a stockpile for their first wardec - because it will happen eventually. It involves the corpmembers working like a corporation insted of a bunch of solo players with a chat channel. Build up a massive warstock as a corporation and then you can have fun. If you are part of a corp where everybody is a solo player or even a corp where you just mine/mission away forever and the corp has no plan with how to deal with their wardecs, then I am afraid to say, you are in the wrong corp. -- Billion Isk Mission
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.17 04:09:00 - [30] Originally by: Stick Cult an alliance needs quite a bit of ISK and skills, not as simple as just "making an alliance" You want protected, you gotta pony up the dough. It is a MMO, you know with the focus on the second M part. Band together or suffer the probability of being attacked eventually and take the necessary steps to mitigate possible damage. This coming from someone who has lost quite a bit of ISK during war declarations in my earlier years.
Sakura Nihil Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.02.22 07:26:00 - [31] GTFO and go back to WoW. Welcome to a world where you have to fight to defend what you hold precious. Stimulus
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.22 08:21:00 - [32] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameGÇª. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. Working as intended.
Georgina Eldridge	Posted - 2009.02.22 12:47:00 - [33] Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2009 20:03:55 Which is exactly the problem, 90% of the wardecs have nothing to do with disrupting logistics Yes sadly carebears are so protected on all sides its virtually impossible to actually disrupt logistics anymore. The only resource you can really fight over is moons. To the OP: Can i have your stuff? You don't get it. Or you do get it but you just act like you don't get it. By far most wardeccers aren't intrested at all in disrupting anything, they just want easy kills. Or they like PvPing in Empires space, want small gang or 1v1 fights and don't want to get invoved in 0.0 politics and POS sieges.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.22 21:14:00 - [34] meh, stay in an npc corp if you don't like wars. Though I wish you could war dec those too :)
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2009.02.22 23:35:00 - [35] Right now my alliance is involved in a war with another who ****ed us off claimed space where we lived was theres and were a general annoyance we have killed one barge in high sec the rest have been PvP ships and the occasional hauler on top of that we have killed 2 of their empire POSs something which we could not have done if you got your change. Im sure there are some people there that are out to grief noobs but at the same time you want to be in a corp and have the advantages that come from that you have to take the good and the bad like war decs and corp theives and spys its all part of the game.
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2009.02.23 00:11:00 - [36] Originally by: Martha Lightyear No need to remove it. Just raise fees from current 2mil to 100mil every week. You can bet 99% of griefers will quit annoying decent players, and only reasonable wars will happen. For the moment, NPC are the only solution. Why you think so many players stick to their NPC? For pleasure? what does responsible PVP mean? cold harsh universe, if you undock you could die, you get griefed, move somewhere else, pay the ransom do whatever, or get tough and join a real corp...
Skylar Flame Gallente Brackish Water	Posted - 2009.02.23 01:10:00 - [37] OP needs to GB2WOW
Insa Rexion Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ	Posted - 2009.02.23 08:30:00 - [38] nothing wrong with the mechanic, just the reasons for the wars. I doubt that CCP had "opportunity to get easy kills" in mind when they came up with the system, more likely corps warring over access to resources. That said, CCP only have them selves to blame for the present situation since the make hisec resources so ridiculously plentiful that industrial corps have no need to fight each other, leaving the mechanic in the hands of those looking for some pew pew in hisec. If resources were harder to come by, maybe some of those looking to pew pew would find a home in a pvp wing of an indy corp as it fought over a good system. A load of corps competing with each other by any means (trade/industry/war) would be far more realistic that the absurd fragmentaion into pure griefing and pure carebear corps we have in hisec now... well mannered ah*
Gil Warden Gallente Intergalactic Trade and Transport Corporation The Fifth Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.01 00:29:00 - [39] Originally by: Kaidelong Einfachs Edited by: Kaidelong Einfachs on 16/02/2009 12:53:02 Also maybe make it free for a defending corp to extend a wardec (so that declaring war doesn't mean you'll be free of it after a week if it turns out you miscalculated). ... PS: Maybe concord should get ****ed if a corp that hasn't paid for a war dec helps a corp that did in a fight with the decced corp via logistics. At least make it so that the attackers have to all dec and can't work around it by sending a large fleet of reppers to help out some guy's mega. 1. War-decs should be more expensive, 50-100 mill per week seems more reasonable. As a minor deterrent the war-deccing corp should be saddled with the weekly expense for an additional 2 weeks if they retract their war-dec without having their target surrender. The problem seems to be that griefers can wardec at practically no cost, and start hunting players not used to low-sec conditions (primarily for easy kills, which imho does make the griefers look really pathetic). 2. That you become a part of the war if you assist a warring party, at least the war-deccing party, is a good one too.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.01 00:33:00 - [40] If you're not prepared to fight (or otherwise survive) a war, you're not ready to form a corp. Stay in a larger, stronger corp until you have the resources, skills and experience to survive. The problem is not that wardecs are not expensive enough but that creating a corp is too easy and cheap.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.03.01 01:21:00 - [41] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. if people want to PvP in WoW they can go to battlegrounds... the people that quit as a result of being wardecced IS A GOOD THING if you dont want to be wardecced dont spam local with "defenceless carebear corp consisting of 16yo's recruiting now" or whatever it is that you do... people like you are soooo tastyyy!!! instead of leaving the game, why dont you join a massive alliance like intrepid crossing or something thats where you go these days to avoid wardecs and just hide behind the blob. A++ will reply again
FU22 Noir.	Posted - 2009.03.01 01:46:00 - [42] Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'll agree with changing wardecs as soon as hisec is less profitable. When the ability to make huge wads of cash in Hisec is crippled, then we can talk about nerfing wardecs.
letni Smith Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.03.01 04:35:00 - [43] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars. CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve. ^^ What he said ^^
Agent Unknown Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.01 07:45:00 - [44] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.01 10:00:00 - [45] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars. CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve. Wow, you've changed!
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.01 10:42:00 - [46] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars. CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve. Wow, you've changed! She had to appear slightly less like a loon to gather votes.
Krans Hopeson Apache Corp	Posted - 2009.03.01 16:52:00 - [47] Quote: It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. Sad Baaaaawwwwwwww. ...can I have your stuff? -- "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask."
Motaka Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:47:00 - [48] Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'll agree with changing wardecs as soon as hisec is less profitable. When the ability to make huge wads of cash in Hisec is crippled, then we can talk about nerfing wardecs. This.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.03.03 04:59:00 - [49] Clicking undock is the "I consent to the possibility of someone blowing up my ****" button Wardec or not. Make it better or more dynamic, but even this carebear agrees it needs to stay
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.03 09:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Motaka Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'll agree with changing wardecs as soon as hisec is less profitable. When the ability to make huge wads of cash in Hisec is crippled, then we can talk about nerfing wardecs. This. Exactly. If you want starter-area safe-zones, then you only get to make starter area ISK in them.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.03 09:50:00 - [51] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars. CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve. Wow, you've changed! She had to appear slightly less like a loon to gather votes. What does she need votes for now?
Axel Vindislaga	Posted - 2009.03.04 03:28:00 - [52] Originally by: Sakura Nihil GTFO and go back to WoW. Welcome to a world where you have to fight to defend what you hold precious. I agree with this HOWEVER.. EVE is an MMO where low skill players can be victorious over players with actual skill due to the skill treadmill. If when a war was declared and a player was suddenly limited a total SP cap while the war was active you;d see actual PVP and not MMO losers griefing Lowbies.. I am returning to FPS.. PVP in eve interested me for as long as it took me to understand exaclty what PVP in an MMO environment means. If I made an MMO there would not be the concept of Leveling or skills.. just you and your wits... the landscape and mechanics at your command or someone elses what ever.. but not being able to pilot a ship the equivalent of your enemy even though you can afford it really destroys the illusion that there is Even PVP in EVE... the reality is CVC Character vs Character and you know what.. I am actually thinking of taking another look at wow and seeing how it is coming along... but I wont because I know that all that storyline NPC quest crap will still be there. So yeah.. Axel's experiment into MMOs is over and the battlefields of Armed Assault 2 await me. I will miss my corp mates but not the ass hats that made its such a struggle to enjoy Eve. And you know what its utterly hilarious sickly stupidly amusing that the upcoming release of Walking in stations and new stuff that new players wont be able to use... It really interested me.. but I realize that it wont get rid of the terrible problem with REAVERS that the empire authorities do nothing to stamp out. I've been eaten enough times.. I think I can lay my character to rest and stop feeding the REAVER Piranhas
Axel Vindislaga	Posted - 2009.03.04 03:43:00 - [53] Originally by: Insa Rexion nothing wrong with the mechanic, just the reasons for the wars. I doubt that CCP had "opportunity to get easy kills" in mind when they came up with the system, more likely corps warring over access to resources. That said, CCP only have them selves to blame for the present situation since the make hisec resources so ridiculously plentiful that industrial corps have no need to fight each other, leaving the mechanic in the hands of those looking for some pew pew in hisec. If resources were harder to come by, maybe some of those looking to pew pew would find a home in a pvp wing of an indy corp as it fought over a good system. A load of corps competing with each other by any means (trade/industry/war) would be far more realistic that the absurd fragmentaion into pure griefing and pure carebear corps we have in hisec now... Resources ARE hard to come by.. and it IS the reason for War Declarations. You people have no idea what the "Carebears" are doing. They are making your stupid PVP possible by supplying vast amounts of minerals, ships, modules, ammunition and EVERYTHING else to you only to get griefed and slammed for playing the hard game and running the EVE economy. The player I have quoted here is the perfect example of a REAVER. A totally mindless killer who casually refers to the destruction of the aspirations of other players as "pew pew". This is why in RL empires were forged with the millions who banded together in order to defend themselves from swirling evil of pure chaos... On the subject of swirling chaos.. When I visit Nulsec and see all those untouched belts and realise the massive potential there but then attempt to speak to a Local REAVER gang and get chased off for spying so me and my "carebear" corp have to stay in highsec and be insulted... So stupid.. so sad. And all based on the ability of an old character to hide behind their char sheet and insult "carebears". How about you bring it to an FPS server and I'll paint the server red with your unskilled RL minds slow reflexes and lack of instinct or you can do that to me... either way its fun... not like here
Iwant Urstuff Amarr Iwant Urstuff Corp	Posted - 2009.03.04 11:39:00 - [54] We need more War Decz!!! A corp can only currently have 3 War Decz running CCP should at least double thiz to 6. I do not support your idea of a carebear heaven in Hi Sec. Don't turn EVE into Sim Space. !!!revo lla ti puah zld FFUTSRU tuaw op I
Dire Radiant	Posted - 2009.03.09 19:52:00 - [55] Originally by: Axel Vindislaga Resources ARE hard to come by.. and it IS the reason for War Declarations. You are correct here. Resources are hard to come by because everyone else is out to get their hands on the massive amount of available resources. War decs play right into this. "Penny my buy/sell orders and you get a dec." Originally by: Axel Vindislaga You people have no idea what the "Carebears" are doing. They are making your stupid PVP possible by supplying vast amounts of minerals, ships, modules, ammunition and EVERYTHING else to you only to get griefed and slammed for playing the hard game and running the EVE economy. .......... The rest of this drivel is pointless. "You People", as in the people declaring war, know EXACTLY what the "Carebears" are doing because... GASP Their ALTS are the CAREBEARS. Sure they will deny it... but its the truth.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.09 22:33:00 - [56] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 09/03/2009 22:33:47 War Dec's are no longer made over resources. That is an utter lie and you people know it. War Dec's are made over whatever the hell they want to make it over...and over 95% of them are over "Because they can and want to kill your ships" reason. As for the "carebears" whom you refer to being the ones manufacturing those ships and materials. "Well duh" If you can't see that...your really are blind. The market is player driven... that stuff doesn't come from some fanciful fictional time warp in space... its manufactured... or gathered from missions. The greater majority of industry and manufacturing takes place in 0.0 space however... as most corps have to be very large or in an alliance as no new corp ever makes it past the gauntlet of war-dec greifing that takes place. You want to make War-dec's more interesting? Take away the single reason why they happen in the first place (the ability to kill without concord) and make it literally what you "pretend" to think it is. If it was over resources... then make it over resources LITERALLY. Include materials... ships...BPO's... territory... there are many things of value that would put the motivation and driving factor in war-decs. But as it is... war-decs are literally a joke to me... ok... Corp A War-decs Corp B. Wow.... Corp A is doing it because Corp B is small and easy prey.. Corp A will never war-dec someone bigger than they are unless they get other corps to join in. Corp B leaves Corp and goes to Alts. Waht did you expect to happen? Them sitting there letting you blow up? Welcome to Game Theroy 101 folks.... that or human nature. I have no issues with War-decs... but stop fooling yourselves... try 0.0 space for a bit and see what REAL war-dec'ing is all about. War-Dec's are an outlet to forced PVP. Regardless of what you people think of EVE... its not about 100% non-consenual PVP. If it was... it would be much like Warhammer online and anyone and everyone would PVP anywhere at anytime. Of course I wouldn't like it very much if it was No PVP at all in High Sec... it would make life rather boring. My point is... seek a middle road... a balance... and stop making crap up for enforcing either side. The carebears hate it.... because its forced on them... so build a mechanic that will make it a bit lucrative for them to fight back. the PVP'ers like the blood and the tears.... fine.... make it a BIGGER and more DIFFICULT challenge... not the "I-Win" button they smack because they have more ships than you do. ISK is too easy to make.. war-dec's fees are too damn cheap.... this cycle will be exponentially infinite and impossible to stop until you both.... manage to agree on something. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.03.10 01:41:00 - [57] Edited by: De''Veldrin on 10/03/2009 01:44:13 At the risk of needing fire proof undergarments, I'm going to take a stab at offering some fixes for War-deccing. 1) Both corps involved become locked. That is neither can add or drop members during the war - if players leave the corp of their own volition, the war target flag follows them for 7 days or until they get podded once. Also, they can't rejoin the corp until after the war. 2) Wardec fees go up. 10,000,000 (+ 10,000,000 for every other war dec you have currently open) to declare a wardec. Weekly fee of 1 ISK per skill point difference between SP total of Deccing corp and SP total of Target corp, with a minimum of 2.5 million per week. So, if you have a 20 million SP corp, and you dec a 10 million SP corporation, it's going to cost you 10,000,000 a week. Admittedly, that's mostly aimed at reducing the griefing. But if you REALLY want to great, by all means, pay for it. 3) NPC Bribery. Both sides can bribe NPC corporations to take sides. Fees would be exorbitant (on the order of tens of millions) and of course the other side can out bid. Suddenly, NPC stations might start refusing to let you dock and shooting at you. 4) Spies. Specifically NPC spies that could be hired to report not only player locations, but ship fits, etc. 5) Surrender. Allow one corp or the other to surrender - basically they make a surrender offer and the other corp gets to accept or decline it - they could sweeten the pot with ISK or equipment, what have you. 6) Redecs. Wardeccing the same corp within 30 days doubles all associated fees - again, this is aimed at lowering greifing. That's all I've got at the moment. It's all off the cuff - and let's face it, it's not going to change any time soon. I'm mostly just trying to offer some kind of solutions, rather than just whining about it. --Vel There is no right or wrong way. There is only what works and what leaves you waking up in a clone vat.
Echthalian Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:15:00 - [58] what corp are you in?
Lady Aja Caldari IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2009.03.11 10:05:00 - [59] when i grow bored of alliance life I tend to go into my one man corp... I then go back to my ore stealing and killing darwins.. Occasionally I see a corp ripe for ransoming.. 400-500m.. one man corp vs a 20-50 man corp.. I dont war dec one corp at a time i war dec 3 or so if i can. begining of the week i send a email to allt he ceo's i am at war with... I then go hunting and kill anyone i can find. then send that person an email saying... blame youre ceo for not paying up. so removal of the war dec system while good for some aint good for all. if paying to war dec another corp was raised to 50-100m isk then what would war deccing an alliance cost? 250-500m isk? PER WEEK at that hell one of these days i must one man war dec an alliance lol....
The PitBoss Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.12 08:10:00 - [60] Edited by: The PitBoss on 12/03/2009 08:11:48 Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. High Sec War Dec ... someone called? CONFIRMING ... please escrow all your stuff to me on your way out ... Honestly though ... If you don't like high sec war decs ... then STAY IN AN NPC CORP ... they are immune Thank-You, The Pitboss (Space between The & Pitboss) Signatures by: Kalen Vox
Yarik Mendel Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.12 12:39:00 - [61] Originally by: The PitBoss Honestly though ... If you don't like high sec war decs ... then STAY IN AN NPC CORP ... they are immune RAISE NPC CORP TAXES!!!!
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.12 14:28:00 - [62] Raise IDIOT TAXES! =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Vvaren VonSchlegel Diplomatic Disruption Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.03.12 14:36:00 - [63] I have a story I want to share with everyone. There once was a carebear corp that that got it's first wardec. In their first war, they took many casualties, and ended up surrendering for 200 million ISK. It was agreed the corp would never surrender again. The corp recieved another wardec a month later, but the corp had prepared. This corp gathered intel, studied PvP setups, and were sure to train skills needed for the fight. Then their first war started. The enemy were greifers, failed PvP'ers of 0.0 who liked using t2 ships and faction equipment. The little corp that could had fewer skillpoints, cheaper ships, but they had the numbers and were fighting in their home territory. The fight started, but the exact events are lost. What is known for certain is that this little corp held their own, and ended up bankrupting the enemy into ending the wardec. This same thing happened several more times, all with the same outcome. The little corp that could held their own, despite their losses, and have matured into tough combatants. I'm in that corp. About war decs: War decs help your balls drop as an EvE player. PvP is like sex in eve. Your first time is really messy, but once you get good at it...oh baby! :) If anything, I wholeheartidly support war-decs, even greifing wardecs used to annoy people. It will toughen you up. Too many people who play eve at the moment are scared of losing ships. what these scared people need to do is gather intel on PvP setups, get a stockpile of parts, mission loot is really great for this, and then get there stuff together when the time comes. Seriously, quit cowaring. People that wardec in highsec are usually NOT big-bad megacorps. They are usually smaller corps with old, bored players who just want to kill you for the lulz.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.12 15:17:00 - [64] I tend to agree with previous post. Except for some parts... but never mind that. War-dec'ing tends to be a griefing tool... because there's no real incentive to it other than greifing. There's only 3 solutions to that problem under current mechanics. Get tougher and expect more to come. Join an alliance Quit and Join a larger corp... or move to 0.0 were 90% of the war-decing corps are utter cowards and refuse to grow a backbone. This is unacceptable... My Corp never wanted to get involved in alliance... hell we wantted to do our own. Of course we are very happy with our alliance... we just had ambitious plans that never came to fruition due to the interference of war-dec. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Terios Corvalis HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2009.03.13 01:11:00 - [65] Edited by: Terios Corvalis on 13/03/2009 01:26:48 When I started EVE with my friends we had a corp of 5 members. After 3 month we got wardecced by some self-appointed griefers. And guess what: we eventually beaten them. We decided to ruin their gameplay with guerilla warfare, we were using noob alts as eyes, afking days if camped, but only engage at least with the same numbers and odds. They were running out of patience, they made mistakes we used them out, eventually they lost 2 bs, 1 command ship, 1 battlecruiser during the war against 3 month old noob characters without losses on our side. And of course they were the one to retreat from the war. EVE isn't a game for whining. There is always a solution, just need to find it. Everything that doesn't destroy you, will make you stronger. And of course there is Hello Kitty Online for the weak...
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2009.03.17 11:05:00 - [66] It is spelled G-R-I-E-F, not greif. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.17 15:48:00 - [67] Empire wars are one of the main reasons why I've been playing Eve for so long. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Erichk Knaar Caldari Noir.	Posted - 2009.03.17 22:08:00 - [68] Good corps survive wardecs stonger for the experience. Bad corps don't.

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