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War Dec's in High Sec are deminishing the game .....

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Oppih Nogard	Posted - 2009.02.15 18:09:00 - [1] Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game.
Efrim Black Gallente Apellon	Posted - 2009.02.15 18:21:00 - [2] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. Can I have your stuff? Seriously, I'm a bit low on cash at the moment. As for your proposal, thats never going to happen. Everyone knows the War-dec system needs an overhaul, but to eliminate it at all would cause an up-roar, and personally **** me off. So yeah, game name is efrim black, feel free to pass me some stuffs. I have some new guys in my corp who can always use some extra cash or ships. ^_^
Martha Lightyear	Posted - 2009.02.15 18:26:00 - [3] No need to remove it. Just raise fees from current 2mil to 100mil every week. You can bet 99% of griefers will quit annoying decent players, and only reasonable wars will happen. For the moment, NPC are the only solution. Why you think so many players stick to their NPC? For pleasure?
Khanoonian Singh	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:01:00 - [4] Perhaps, you could make a macro for surrendering, it would probably be similiar to the macro you use for mining. Nothing wrong with the current war dec rules except the limit on them.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:07:00 - [5] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. Have a nice life. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:19:00 - [6] Quote: Nothing wrong with the current war dec rules except the limit on them. Euhm, right. Wardecs are flawed atm, removing them is not an option though. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Martha Lightyear	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Khanoonian Singh Perhaps, you could make a macro for surrendering, it would probably be similiar to the macro you use for mining. Nothing wrong with the current war dec rules except the limit on them. Originally by: Furb Killer Euhm, right. Wardecs are flawed atm, removing them is not an option though. Go low-sec kthx p.s. not enough nuts? keep killing miners you are brave people laugh out loud at your killboards full of hulks and retrievers
Khanoonian Singh	Posted - 2009.02.15 19:37:00 - [8] Edited by: Khanoonian Singh on 15/02/2009 19:39:14 Originally by: Furb Killer Quote: Nothing wrong with the current war dec rules except the limit on them. Euhm, right. Wardecs are flawed atm, removing them is not an option though. What's the problem, pay a fee, kill some targets. edit: Have you seen my killboard, or our killboard? Yeah, we kill miners if we find them, haulers too, thats what privateers do interrupt trade. However, the majority of our kills, and mine, are on combat ships. As far as the laughing, haven't heard any, but the more they laugh the more likely they are the ones who refuse to undock when decced, or do nothing but play docking games.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.15 20:04:00 - [9] Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2009 20:03:55 Which is exactly the problem, 90% of the wardecs have nothing to do with disrupting logistics, removing those stupid miners from the system you want to mine in, not liking the colour of the ships they fly in, etc. The only reason for 90% of the wardecs is just easy targets: Risk free pvp. No point in denying it. I don't say you do it, i say 90% of the wardecs are that way. And yes i made that 90% up, but i think it is pretty close. And Martha, about me, i live in 0.0, providence. I am NRDS and never even have been in a corp which declared war on another one. It is always the other way arround, people looking for afk haulers wardeccing us. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2009 20:03:55 Which is exactly the problem, 90% of the wardecs have nothing to do with disrupting logistics Yes sadly carebears are so protected on all sides its virtually impossible to actually disrupt logistics anymore. The only resource you can really fight over is moons. To the OP: Can i have your stuff?
Zenethalos Minmatar Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. I lol'd pretty damn hard. Sure a lot of as*hats dec for easy ganks against noobs what can you do. As it stands in noir. we get paid to kill WT's and I think those on the recieving end have it easy. We dec you leave your corp for the week and keep making isk. While we are bound by contract to sit by and camp station AFK'rs, the dec is in their favor. Grow up and can I has all your stuff.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.15 21:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/02/2009 20:03:55 Which is exactly the problem, 90% of the wardecs have nothing to do with disrupting logistics Yes sadly carebears are so protected on all sides its virtually impossible to actually disrupt logistics anymore. The only resource you can really fight over is moons. To the OP: Can i have your stuff? You don't get it. Or you do get it but you just act like you don't get it. By far most wardeccers aren't intrested at all in disrupting anything, they just want easy kills. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Covert Kitty Amarr Rock Grinders	Posted - 2009.02.15 22:23:00 - [13] I have absolutely no problem with wardec's at all, however I do think 2m / week represents absolutely no barrier at all, why not just make it free? If people feel there should be some kind of cost, then make it something more sensible, say like 20-50 mil. 2mil is a joke, nobody is going to care about that.
Zenethalos Minmatar Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.15 22:30:00 - [14] I agree 2m is not a deturent by any means. Starting war dec fee's at 50m makes much moar sense. Griefers that take easy kills from noobs probably wont break a profit and after a month are out 200m +
N'irrti Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.02.15 23:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Furb Killer By far most wardeccers aren't intrested at all in disrupting anything, they just want easy kills. Which tbh is completly fine.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.16 01:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Esmenet on 16/02/2009 01:02:08 Originally by: Furb Killer You don't get it. Or you do get it but you just act like you don't get it. By far most wardeccers aren't intrested at all in disrupting anything, they just want easy kills. Thats completely irrelevant. Dont be such an easy kill then.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.16 02:20:00 - [17] I'll agree with changing wardecs as soon as hisec is less profitable. When the ability to make huge wads of cash in Hisec is crippled, then we can talk about nerfing wardecs.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.02.16 07:46:00 - [18] Wardecs are essential to the game. Without them... there would be much less destruction in the game. Which would be bad for the game. Stupid wardecs without definition or purpose is the real culprit in the game. Having 20 people wardec a stationbear alliance, or wardec another corp of giant numbers that they couldnt possibly fight. Being wardecced makes you play the game differently. Even if the entire other corp is offline. This essentially fits in as griefing. You pay a measly nonexistent price. Just to cause other people ingame to play differently. That isnt fun. They need to bring a much more advanced interface to wars. Setting goals: -Destruction or removal of a pos @ X place. -X amount of damage inflicted. -# of ships destroyed. -Ransom amount. Then depending on how much you want to inflict and your goals, Is how much the war costs. Obviously the person getting wardecced wouldnt see what the goals are; exception being ransom. As for op... leave ur corp and goto nub corp if you cant deal with it. Or go play an alt. You have 2 other characters on your account. No reason you cant go play one of those while the wardec dies out. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.02.16 09:12:00 - [19] There has to be ways to interfere with other players and try to force things to change to your favor, since we all live in one big sandbox. In highsec the wardec -system is the only real tool available to do this. It is sometimes a blunt tool, that could be replaced by a more refined mechanic in some cases, but sometimes it is exactly what is needed. The reasons for wardecs, that I have personally been a part of are: -Personal insult/aiding friends -Denying the other some resource -Getting more targets in your area of space. The corps targetted are selected for a reason, but for them it might seem random. Either they use the same resources as us, one of their member might have a bad history with us or they are likely to actually fight. This means sometimes deccing corps with superior numbers, so they might actually come out and fight. The whole point is to force the others to play their game differently. In the case of denying a resource or aiding a friend, it doesn't matter, if they are offline during the wardec. The goal is accomplished in any case. People know how the system works and can guess how the opposite side reacts. They can then use this knowledge to achieve their goals. I wouldn't object to adding actual goals to wardecs, allowing advanced options and tweaking the price, but total war must remain an option. The reasons and meaning for wardecs should be defined by the people who start the war and not be limited to some pre-defined options by CCP.
NereSky Gallente Domination. Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.16 09:57:00 - [20] Edited by: NereSky on 16/02/2009 09:56:54 Totally disagree with the op , a war dec no matter what the reason has purpose and if the Dec is against new players then the war dec gives them a intro into PvP and PvP game mechanics in Empire, There is a positive in every negative, enjoy the war have fun it wont last forever lol
Stick Cult	Posted - 2009.02.16 10:20:00 - [21] I don't think they should be removed, part of EVE is that there's no place safe from pvp. However, the fees should definitly be raised, 25mil at least. 2mil for a war dec is pointless, because anyone can afford it, and 1 kill during the week can pay for that 2mil many times over.
Ankhesentapemkah	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:38:00 - [22] Wardecs are part of Eve and should not be removed, live with it and be prepared to defend your corp, or stay in NPC corps, which are a perfectly valid alternative for those players that do not wish to engage in wars. CCP agreed that it is mostly used as a pay-to-grief system, but instead of whining about how unfair Eve is and threaten to quit, perhaps it would be more productive to come up with things you'd like to see changed, instead of aiming for a complete removal, which is unrealistic and never going to happen as that'll destroy a large part of Eve. --- NEW MOVIE!
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:48:00 - [23] The fix is to remove highsec and watch the problem disappear. One client: Three Screens!
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.16 11:58:00 - [24] 1/10 troll has been tried alot and better
Kaidelong Einfachs	Posted - 2009.02.16 12:49:00 - [25] Edited by: Kaidelong Einfachs on 16/02/2009 12:53:02 Originally by: Martha Lightyear No need to remove it. Just raise fees from current 2mil to 100mil every week. You can bet 99% of griefers will quit annoying decent players, and only reasonable wars will happen. 2 mil to dec a corp does seem a bit cheap, you can get that much in 20 minutes, it's utterly trivial. I understand the logic of having it increase in cost with multiple to discourage people from using it for kicks but I think better would be having it discounted (or free) if the target corp has had recent aggression timers with the declaring corp. Also maybe make it free for a defending corp to extend a wardec (so that declaring war doesn't mean you'll be free of it after a week if it turns out you miscalculated). Otherwise it should be more expensive than it currently is, a strong corporation that doesn't have to defend anything stationary could wardec whoever they please without their target able to defend themselves in any meaningful way and hide away if it turns out that they can and wait out the war until the check is no longer theirs to pay. Wardecs aren't really that bad if they happen once every few months to a corp that doesn't bother anyone. It doesn't much make sense, but if the random griefing is infrequent it's manageable because there is time to rebuild after the fighting. It gets ridiculous if an uncoordinated war dec follows after another, though, or if you have to deal with three in the same month, etc, which has been happening lately. I don't think removing them is a good idea since it'll effectively give impunity to highsec pirates that don't get on the wrong side of concord, like a can flipper in a shuttle. They should however be a more significant decision than they are now, you shouldn't be motivated to simultaneously wardec two corps you never heard of before just for the fun of it, and it definitely should not be cheap. Making wars more costly might help as an ISK sink against the inflation introduced by bounties and mission payments, anyway, if inflation is a problem. Not supporting this topic PS: Maybe concord should get ****ed if a corp that hasn't paid for a war dec helps a corp that did in a fight with the decced corp via logistics. At least make it so that the attackers have to all dec and can't work around it by sending a large fleet of reppers to help out some guy's mega.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.16 20:23:00 - [26] Or you know, you could band together as empire industrial corps into this fancy thing called an alliance, you know, the sorta thing that deters random wardecs? ...just a thought.
Stick Cult	Posted - 2009.02.16 22:19:00 - [27] an alliance needs quite a bit of ISK and skills, not as simple as just "making an alliance"
Nnamuachs Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.16 23:41:00 - [28] Originally by: Stick Cult an alliance needs quite a bit of ISK and skills, not as simple as just "making an alliance" perhaps the same thing should be required of corps? a bit more isk.. say 50 mil atleast to make one? that would also help this problem.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.16 23:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Oppih Nogard Sirs: War Decks and the resulting in game dynamics absolutely ruin game play. This drives a lot of players out of the Eve Community. That is, they quite the gameà. Less $$ for CCP. If people want to PVP they can go into low security areas. It would greatly improve the enjoyment of playing Eve it you eliminated War Decking or at least limited it to 0.3 space or lower. As it is, I am thinking of leaving the game. CCP have stopped all wardecs vs NPC corps. If you want to chat with friends, then go ahead and do so via a chat channel. If you want to be in a player corp, then you open yourself up to pvp via wardecs. Thats the whole point of a player corp. The first thing new corps should do is build up a stockpile for their first wardec - because it will happen eventually. It involves the corpmembers working like a corporation insted of a bunch of solo players with a chat channel. Build up a massive warstock as a corporation and then you can have fun. If you are part of a corp where everybody is a solo player or even a corp where you just mine/mission away forever and the corp has no plan with how to deal with their wardecs, then I am afraid to say, you are in the wrong corp. -- Billion Isk Mission
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.17 04:09:00 - [30] Originally by: Stick Cult an alliance needs quite a bit of ISK and skills, not as simple as just "making an alliance" You want protected, you gotta pony up the dough. It is a MMO, you know with the focus on the second M part. Band together or suffer the probability of being attacked eventually and take the necessary steps to mitigate possible damage. This coming from someone who has lost quite a bit of ISK during war declarations in my earlier years.

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