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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.07 23:06:00 -
[181]
Rodj or anyone else from PIE can't really make a statement similar to the one made made by 1PG for a very simple reason:
We do not offensive plex except on rare occassions. Our primary task has been to hold the line as best we could. A vast majority of our time is spent clearing the debris after the vigil's/rifters of doom has passed through friendly space
IC there is no way to speak out against reclaiming of systems without instantly commiting treason/heresy, or that is to say I can not think of any way to spin it.
-----
It is a crummy mechanic that's for sure, but look at the bright side .. blood finally started to boil ..
We as players need to be feverish and drooling like rabid dogs to make CCP take notice. FW has been puttering along with all the game breaking features because we have lacked the the massive outcry necessary .. we plexers/RP'ers have been ridiculed in every thread raising the issues going back over eighteen months.
PS: Timer abuse is not an exploit as far as I am aware, properly merely frowned upon. CCP has a very poor track-record when it comes to making that declaration and seem to only make it when they have the bug/mechanic nailed and merely waiting for the code to compile. THIS is the only list I know of with actual notifications .. hardly extensive.
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.07 23:38:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida PS: Timer abuse is not an exploit as far as I am aware, properly merely frowned upon.
It is considered an exploit and petitionable. I have asked explicitly that question via petition, got a "yes, it's an exploit" back, and have petitioned a few pilots for it.
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Djan Shilde
Vitharr's Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.12.07 23:45:00 -
[183]
Supported. FW has a number of flawed game mechanics as others have mentioned, the implications of this particular one I feel will result in the failure of this piece of content.
Time to take a serious look at faction war again CCP, and to take onboard suggestions from the players who actually enjoy playing the FW game as it is intended.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.08 00:50:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Ralnik on 08/12/2009 00:52:46
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth The blame game also achieves very little - it's like arguing over the result of a rigged match... duh, it was rigged! The outcome is irrelevant, because you can never know what would have actually happened in 'fair/balanced' circumstances. It renders the actual effort of those not using inappropriate tactics/bugs/exploits/call-it-what-you-will also irrelevant because you're no longer comparing apples and apples. Arguably the current 'victories', for any side, are null & void.
Nobody seems to be arguing that the current situation is correct - therefore the situation needs addressing. The only reasonable way to do that is to fix the problems & start again. Compare it to the moon-goo exploit - CCP didn't say 'well, we've discovered the problem now and fixed it, but the ill gotten gains are ok' - they removed the ill gotten gains (they pretty much couldn't fix the economic impacts, but lets not wander off-topic..). CCP can find reason to fix the problems and reset occupancy, along with preferably giving occupancy meaning and all the other requests for FW's improvements. That's what we should be asking for, not getting distracted by blaming each other.
The blame game is all we have at this point until CCP decides to stand up and do something about it. All long as corps like PIE continue to support this actions by RPing around them then yes they are part of the blame.
We also "DO" know what would have happened if it were not used. They never would have captured the systems they got so fast. Proof is in the pudding in the fact they couldn't do it before this game breaking exploit was used.
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.08 01:15:00 -
[185]
Who can we contact of the Dev team so they give a response about this? I don't like much the idea of waiting and see what happens, because it might just not.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.08 02:07:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel Who can we contact of the Dev team so they give a response about this? I don't like much the idea of waiting and see what happens, because it might just not.
You're not supposed to swamp the devs with stuff. I've already forwarded as much relevant info to the relevant people as I could. If there are details you think they should know, you can of course mail it to me. ---
Click banner for info! |
Lost InCogneto
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Posted - 2009.12.08 06:09:00 -
[187]
Anger, tears and frustration is what I hear from the Minmatar and is what Amarr has been dealing with for well over a year.
You wonder why the Amarr vs Minmatar front has been stagnant well here it is à
I have been in the FW for 1 + years I have seen the good times and the bad times I have seen our systems fall and reclaimed.
Our systems had fallen with speed due to loop holes and crushing numbers from the Minmatar, for those that remember Outbreak, RKK, Dark and despite Amarr complaining about FW mechanics we did what needed to be done and worked hard to reclaim them.
These loop holes that you talk about are the same loop holes that the Minmatar have been using for well over a year. The standing bug is in essence the same as a T1 frigate speed tanking all Amarr plexes, there is no risk.
Your generals were even paid isk incentives by neutral supporters to plex, not asking how the VP were taken not caring if they were taken using loop holes but paid non the less.
Amarr corporations invested months of time and isk to set up staging areas to assault your systems getting them close to falling only to have your tribals use loop holes to destroy months work in a matter of a day with loop holes.
To move plexes from uncontested systems to a contested system is a valid tactic but to cap 10 of them using 1 ship using the timer bug in a 20 min period is a loop hole. In desperate times during war you did what needed to be done. We complained but still went on fighting.
The same moral high ground that you ask Amarr to take and the majority have is the sword that has stagnated this war.
While using these loop holes you laughed at our morals and corporations, but now, you stand there asking once again, praising those corporations like 1PG the same ones you laughed at.
Do not presume to stand the moral high ground on what is happening to your systems. When it is your own doing that has caused the harshest response, tactics that you have been using that has now turned against you.
For the first time in the war you systems are falling and you are now on the back foot just like Amarr has been, how will you respond?
As stated by many in the Minmatar and neutral supporters you need to do what Amarr did and fight and drive off the invaders. I do not believe Minmatar will just give up.
I expect this post will not sit well and only inflame your anger but needed to be said. And I hope that now that all this is out that some good will now come for FW.
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Wallinstar
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Posted - 2009.12.08 06:21:00 -
[188]
Supported of course.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.08 08:34:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Ralnik on 08/12/2009 08:36:42
Originally by: Lost InCogneto Anger, tears and frustration is what I hear from the Minmatar and is what Amarr has been dealing with for well over a year.
You wonder why the Amarr vs Minmatar front has been stagnant well here it is à
I have been in the FW for 1 + years I have seen the good times and the bad times I have seen our systems fall and reclaimed.
Our systems had fallen with speed due to loop holes and crushing numbers from the Minmatar, for those that remember Outbreak, RKK, Dark and despite Amarr complaining about FW mechanics we did what needed to be done and worked hard to reclaim them.
These loop holes that you talk about are the same loop holes that the Minmatar have been using for well over a year. The standing bug is in essence the same as a T1 frigate speed tanking all Amarr plexes, there is no risk.
Your generals were even paid isk incentives by neutral supporters to plex, not asking how the VP were taken not caring if they were taken using loop holes but paid non the less.
Amarr corporations invested months of time and isk to set up staging areas to assault your systems getting them close to falling only to have your tribals use loop holes to destroy months work in a matter of a day with loop holes.
To move plexes from uncontested systems to a contested system is a valid tactic but to cap 10 of them using 1 ship using the timer bug in a 20 min period is a loop hole. In desperate times during war you did what needed to be done. We complained but still went on fighting.
The same moral high ground that you ask Amarr to take and the majority have is the sword that has stagnated this war.
While using these loop holes you laughed at our morals and corporations, but now, you stand there asking once again, praising those corporations like 1PG the same ones you laughed at.
Do not presume to stand the moral high ground on what is happening to your systems. When it is your own doing that has caused the harshest response, tactics that you have been using that has now turned against you.
For the first time in the war you systems are falling and you are now on the back foot just like Amarr has been, how will you respond?
As stated by many in the Minmatar and neutral supporters you need to do what Amarr did and fight and drive off the invaders. I do not believe Minmatar will just give up.
I expect this post will not sit well and only inflame your anger but needed to be said. And I hope that now that all this is out that some good will now come for FW.
Crushing numbers is not a loop hole nor is it an exploit. Speed tanking is also "not" a exploit as you Amarr continually whine about it. Speed tanking DPS is in fact one of Minmatar ships active tanking systems.
Our shields are not strong like Caldri's and our Armor is not strong like Amarr ships. We have a mix of both and added ability to negate damage by speed tanking.
This is not a exploit, just like having a Caldri or Amarr ship sit there and tank the DPS is not an exploit.
The best part about this, is I see amarr doing speed tanking in plexes all the time. Yet where are you to complain about that?
You are your Amarrios are just riding on the coat tails of the Caldari and exploiting your way to system capture that you would have never gotten any other way.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 09:05:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Ralnik
Crushing numbers is not a loop hole nor is it an exploit. Speed tanking is also "not" a exploit as you Amarr continually whine about it. Speed tanking DPS is in fact one of Minmatar ships active tanking systems.
If the Caldari had come in and used Vigils to speed tank the plexes with poorly skilled alts instead of standing tanking the plexes, would it have been ok?
Because *if* it would be possible to speed tank Matari plexes so easily, the outcome would have been the same. However, unlike most Amarr plexes, you cannot speed tank Matari plexes with poorly skilled alts.
The problem with the plexing mechanic is that the most efficient way to do it is have an alt semi-afk capture it. Timers are stupid, being able to capture without fighting is stupid, plexing favoring doing it when no hostiles are nearby is stupid.
The system is poorly designed, period. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.08 09:15:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Merdaneth If the Caldari had come in and used Vigils to speed tank the plexes with poorly skilled alts instead of standing tanking the plexes, would it have been ok?
You greatly overestimate the famed solo-plexing Vigil. :-) E.g. it can't really do minors solo (takes ages), you can't really be afk (sometimes it doesn't work), etc.
You also underestimate the ability of a crusader to solo capture Minmatar complexes. I have seen them do it. It works. (No, I do not claim that it's "just as easy". No, I do not claim that it's ok as it is.)
Neither is comparable to just put your alt there and sit afk. You can AB to some of them for 70km and blow them up, only to get the first reaction a minute later. They aren't watching the screen for most part. THAT is why they can plex with around 8 alts at once (one has to admire the dedication, though).
Besides, all it takes are two ships instead of one to tank any plex. Not that much more difficult. Why hasn't it been done before?
This whole "look, even WITHOUT this bug, we would have won now" is highly annoying and nothing but trying to avoid the sour taste of this victory. You can not have both I'm afraid.
Had PERVS decided to go to Amarr space, Amarr would have lost just as fast, just as much, just as unreasonably - not because losing systems is bad, but because this game mechanic is borked.
Quote: The problem with the plexing mechanic is that the most efficient way to do it is have an alt semi-afk capture it.
This.
Quote: The system is poorly designed, period.
And this.
Let's stop talking around it.
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.08 10:13:00 -
[192]
Also, this thread started before any system in Metropolis fell, as an attempt to raise all NPC-related issues to the CSM. Including the different power levels of the NPCs, as you can see in the first post.
The power levels are being addressed. Hopefully, the rest is as well.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.08 10:37:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 08/12/2009 08:36:42
Originally by: Lost InCogneto Anger, tears and frustration is what I hear from the Minmatar and is what Amarr has been dealing with for well over a year.
You wonder why the Amarr vs Minmatar front has been stagnant well here it is à
I have been in the FW for 1 + years I have seen the good times and the bad times I have seen our systems fall and reclaimed.
Our systems had fallen with speed due to loop holes and crushing numbers from the Minmatar, for those that remember Outbreak, RKK, Dark and despite Amarr complaining about FW mechanics we did what needed to be done and worked hard to reclaim them.
These loop holes that you talk about are the same loop holes that the Minmatar have been using for well over a year. The standing bug is in essence the same as a T1 frigate speed tanking all Amarr plexes, there is no risk.
Your generals were even paid isk incentives by neutral supporters to plex, not asking how the VP were taken not caring if they were taken using loop holes but paid non the less.
Amarr corporations invested months of time and isk to set up staging areas to assault your systems getting them close to falling only to have your tribals use loop holes to destroy months work in a matter of a day with loop holes.
To move plexes from uncontested systems to a contested system is a valid tactic but to cap 10 of them using 1 ship using the timer bug in a 20 min period is a loop hole. In desperate times during war you did what needed to be done. We complained but still went on fighting.
The same moral high ground that you ask Amarr to take and the majority have is the sword that has stagnated this war.
While using these loop holes you laughed at our morals and corporations, but now, you stand there asking once again, praising those corporations like 1PG the same ones you laughed at.
Do not presume to stand the moral high ground on what is happening to your systems. When it is your own doing that has caused the harshest response, tactics that you have been using that has now turned against you.
For the first time in the war you systems are falling and you are now on the back foot just like Amarr has been, how will you respond?
As stated by many in the Minmatar and neutral supporters you need to do what Amarr did and fight and drive off the invaders. I do not believe Minmatar will just give up.
I expect this post will not sit well and only inflame your anger but needed to be said. And I hope that now that all this is out that some good will now come for FW.
Crushing numbers is not a loop hole nor is it an exploit. Speed tanking is also "not" a exploit as you Amarr continually whine about it. Speed tanking DPS is in fact one of Minmatar ships active tanking systems.
Our shields are not strong like Caldri's and our Armor is not strong like Amarr ships. We have a mix of both and added ability to negate damage by speed tanking.
This is not a exploit, just like having a Caldri or Amarr ship sit there and tank the DPS is not an exploit.
The best part about this, is I see amarr doing speed tanking in plexes all the time. Yet where are you to complain about that?
You are your Amarrios are just riding on the coat tails of the Caldari and exploiting your way to system capture that you would have never gotten any other way.
Using standing to avoid agro is not exploit either. It is working as intended. So claiming that caldari exploit is not true, Caldari has never exploited and will not exploit. So i am asking you to stop these false accusations.
Truth is that minmatar uses same tricks every day in caldari front, smaller scale though. You should just find out what your own people does before you start to shout about exploiters and such.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.08 10:50:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Besides, all it takes are two ships instead of one to tank any plex. Not that much more difficult. Why hasn't it been done before?
This was used by caldari on gallete complexes quite often, maybe not by alts but by mains.
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Had PERVS decided to go to Amarr space, Amarr would have lost just as fast, just as much, just as unreasonably - not because losing systems is bad, but because this game mechanic is borked.
In fact it would be easier to us. We have right standing on our mains so no need for alts.
But with our standing we cant join gallente side and i am sure there is no one existing gallente corp who would take PERVS in their corp
And Gallente is so full of losers that why would we do it for them? Amarr has been our supporter on tough moments. And minmatar criminals hoarders all the time in caldari space raping our women and eating our children so we want to stop that now.
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Vlad Konstantinov
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 10:54:00 -
[195]
Supported, bad game designs need to go.
Pity about the whining and finger-pointing though. It's not a bug. It's working as intended. So: game mechanics need to be improved. ---
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:00:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Besides, all it takes are two ships instead of one to tank any plex. Not that much more difficult. Why hasn't it been done before?
This was used by caldari on gallete complexes quite often, maybe not by alts but by mains.
Yep. Like all "clever uses of game mechanics" - they have been used before. What makes this different from all the other cases is that you PERVS put a lot more dedication and time into it than anyone else has so far.
Which brings out all the bad parts of the game design: The game mechanics mean that the most effective way to "capture" systems in FW is to semi-afk plexes on a large scale, something you do while your (player) attention is somewhere else.
The simple fact on the Amarr/Minmatar front is that both sides had trouble getting "sufficient plexing" done, and the defensive plexing was barely enough to keep up with single dedicated attempts (AB-C in Metropolis, Arzad in Amarr space) before either side just gave up because of the silliness of plexing.
Both sides have had their rationalization for their lack of success. Minmatar have the "well, can't keep a system without post-DT superiority", Amarr have the "well, what do you do against the uber-Vigil-of-doom" - both problems real, but workable with.
Both sides get frustrated with the silly mechanics. Both sides use outright exploits (such as bugging timers - it was awesome to close a plex in an empty system while five others around me closed for the enemy). So far, both sides did this apparently in roughly the same amount, as neither side managed to skew it in their favor.
What broke this delicate balance of "can't be arsed to do more" was a group of people who put in a lot of time and dedication into plexing. This was helped by using a silly game mechanic (and can't blame them for it) which demotivated and demoralized the defenders even more.
It's sufficiently proven that FW is completely and utterly broken. The mechanics encourage a game style that can not be what CCP intended with the game, and even those silly game mechanics have so many bugs it's not funny anymore.
Now, please stop blaming each other for being "bad players". It's a game. Let's get the game designer to fix it, and not bite each other for playing the game the best way we can.
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:11:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida PS: Timer abuse is not an exploit as far as I am aware, properly merely frowned upon.
It is considered an exploit and petitionable. I have asked explicitly that question via petition, got a "yes, it's an exploit" back, and have petitioned a few pilots for it.
It is an exploit but it was rarely used intentional from either Minmatar or Amarr side during the war. Until now.
Fact was that if you were running a timer and forced to jump out of the plex the timer sometimes kept running. We tested the issue and found no way to force it to happen. Maybe some have found a way. This bug is ugly and needs to be fixed but I personally never accused the Amarr working with it.
And even now with those mindless Caldaridrones exploiting the mechanic I am not sure that they use it intentionally. But of cause it might be the case. On the other hand the S-Pervs won't need each 6 alts to sit on the buttons if they would.
So this is an ennoying bug but I don't know anyone that is using it intentionally. Funny that we found a lot of running timers in Amarr space when looking for offensive plexes. But I don't turn that against Amarr plexers for I know that that ****ty timers sometimes are keeping running when you have to warp out.
But has to be fixed. Urgently. How difficult can that be?! if(NOT ENTITY IN GRID) {timer(stop);} Have I do to have to write the damn code to show how it is fixed?! -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Juren Coda
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:22:00 -
[198]
supported
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:35:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 08/12/2009 12:40:12
Originally by: Ralnik
If the Caldari had come in and used Vigils to speed tank the plexes with poorly skilled alts instead of standing tanking the plexes, would it have been ok?
Because *if* it would be possible to speed tank Matari plexes so easily, the outcome would have been the same. However, unlike most Amarr plexes, you cannot speed tank Matari plexes with poorly skilled alts.
You can not speedtank Amarr plexes with poorly skilled characters or Vigils either. I am the one who originally designed the Plex-Vigil for Minmatar. And I know the limits of this vessel best. You need damn good skills for that you can't do it afk, you have to correct your fight path by hand and even then it can happen that you have to warp out the last minutes without ever be able to close that damn thing.
It's something that can't be done afk. Au contraire mon ami. You need a lot of skill as a player and you got to be sharp every second. It's something that can't be done with 6 alts at a time. It's something that can be done in Matari plexes with Punishers and Crusaders too. I've seen it.
So. Let's drop that. What is true is that the NPC are bad balanced, worst case are the Caldari NPC which are insane. The design is poor. But don't blame the Vigil for all this.
The Vigil is a good vessel. But it has strong weaknesses too. And those who use it are not those who know the mechanism of speedtanking best. Believe me. I know them well and I know their damn limits. And I don't use the Vigil for it is not the reason I'm out there. I use the Rifter instead. As the Amarr prefer the Punisher for that.
I don't think every NPC should be the same. There *should* be some racial differences. BUT the NPC at the moment are insanely unbalanced. I don't think the Amarr/Minmatar are too much but the Gallente/Caldari are laughable unbalanced. But by the way, CCP should work on all.
Before you can speedtank an Amarr plex you are almost on the level of flying interceptors. I tried it as a lowskilled pilot and only achieved it a week before I was ready for ceptors. Which is a skilltime about - how long? Five months?
You can do L4 Missions in a Ceptor. I do when I want to have some fun. Why should an enemy plex be harder like that? No. I don't think so. And the chaff about speedtanking is just a minor point that has to be fixed. The most urgent point is a FAST fix of this standing issue. And after that an overhaul of the whole FW.
Because this breaks the game. It breaks the roleplay. It makes the whole conflict Minmatar/Amarr a farce. And I take the exploit of this mechanism personal. Indeed. That's just griefing.
I'm not in the age to really enrage myself about this. For it's a kids way to play a game. You don't go and beat up little children that do not know better. But I stopped to take them serious. For me everybody that is joining this stupid exploid is voiding his position for me to take anything he does or says serious. More serious than the talk of a child.
And this is something I regret. I was thinking better of the majority of Amarr playerbase than to fall for such cheap tricks and even support these Caldari griefers in destroying the whole factional warfare. Be serious: "We do it to make CCP listen." Do you believe this?
I don't think you do, for even now I have left a rest of respect for your intelligence. It's just childish play of kids that try to grief. Nothing more.
And what we Minmatar do at the moment is go and spank their alts where we catch them, have some fun doing this and ignore their follies. We don't plex. I don't plex anymore. Sasawong doesn't and most of the other.
Some remain in the fight. Yes. And I honour this. It's just I can't. I don't play games on childish behaviour and let me dictacte rules.
If you would play a game of chess with me and you leave the room for a minute you can be safe that I didn't touched the pieces to "win" the game. Because only a unmature child would do this. -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:41:00 -
[200]
I did some testing before operation and managed to speedtank amarr major plex with 60k sp alt in executioner. I do not say that you can tank all plexes with low sp alt but some of those yes.
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:51:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Bad Messenger I did some testing before operation and managed to speedtank amarr major plex with 60k sp alt in executioner. I do not say that you can tank all plexes with low sp alt but some of those yes.
I can totally believe that - the larger plexes are easier to speed-tank than the smaller ones because often, they don't spawn smaller ships at all. Even the missiles from the Minmatar NPC BS do very little damage if you are moving fast.
The idea of spawning frigates in larger plexes has been brought up very early in FW, and was put down because according to CCP, NPCs are only meant to serve as a distraction in case no players show up.
Which is quite silly considering the vast differences in NPC power levels and ewar strengths (amarr TDs are pretty bad for PvP, btw, just not as easy to notice as ECM).
Luckily, as Z0D pointed out, this is being addressed by the CSM already (see first post). Let's hope the rest is, too.
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.08 13:04:00 -
[202]
Good job guys!
PERVS are getting attention on stupid plex mechanics and others delivering this attention to CCP. Hopefully we are moving towards a factional warfare upgrade. Removal of fw missions and lp rewards for plexing! Fights in plexes! Heroic fights to death to save planets and stations from being occupied! Massive front line warfare!
Keep on it!!!
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Gallactica
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.08 13:33:00 -
[203]
Wouldnt the best all round solution be so that you have to destroy all the NPC's to capture a plex?
Always Seemed a bit daft that you are able to capture a beacon whilst there are still god knows how many people (npc's) protecting it.
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.12.08 13:51:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Gallactica Wouldnt the best all round solution be so that you have to destroy all the NPC's to capture a plex?
Always Seemed a bit daft that you are able to capture a beacon whilst there are still god knows how many people (npc's) protecting it.
Agreed, but knowing CCP they'd do that and leave Gallente rats as they are and squids would take them all over again --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Angry Fist
Tribal Core
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Posted - 2009.12.08 14:39:00 -
[205]
I support this in general, but honestly have grown to not care about how the PERVS are achieving what they are achieving. The real reason so many of us in the Minmatar militia are unhappy about the situation is because at the rate the Caldari/Amarr are tearing through our systems we will not realistically be able to undo the damage because of the far more hateful downtime plex respawn mechanics and their consequences throughout the rest of the day.
A number of Minmatar militia corps recently hatched a plan to take as much Amarr territory as possible, but when we captured Arzad we found that every day after downtime plexes would spawn there and be captured by the Amarr in short order. No more plexes would spawn until the following downtime. Most of the Minmatar active plexers aren't around at that time of day and we can't raise much of a fleet so we were completely unable to prevent the system being slowly, but surely, recaptured. Needless to say this broke the morale of many otherwise dedicated plexers. What's the point capturing systems when it can be so easily undone with us powerless to prevent it ? Long ago CCP indicated they wanted to remove gameplay mechanics tied to downtime. Their apparent failure to address this in FW has now killed a large part of FW.
Now the Caldari take our systems and that same downtime mechanic will prevent us reclaiming those systems when the Caldari return home, assuming the Amarr defend their new systems in their usual manner.
By breaking the delicate balance of Minmatar/Amarr system occupancy in such dramatic fashion the PERVS have rendered that gameplay mechanic null and void. I suspect CCP lack the resources to fix the downtime respawn problem so perhaps they could try something else.
I personally have no problem with system occupancy meaning nothing but which side's name appears in the top left-hand corner of my Eve client when I pass though the system. It's enough for me to know my team is doing well. I don't expect the isk hose to be fired upon me as a reward every time I cap a plex.
I have always felt that the main point of the system occupancy mechanic in FW should be to encourage fleets to move around a bit and not hang around the same few systems. The way things are heading at the moment we might as well only have 2 systems in FW and each side can just spend all day sitting on either side of the connecting gate.
I'd like to see it possible for a fleet of say 30-40 pilots be able to fully capture a few systems within say a 3-4 hour period. The current system takes far too long and makes it hard for casual FW participants to feel connected to what is going on. If you can join a fleet and capture a system within your time served in that fleet you're going to start to care more. It's a mechanic that works in popular FPS style games and with a little imagination it can work in Eve too.
The current long drawn out, morale sapping grind of plexing in FW seems entirely contrary to what I thought CCP were aiming for when they launched FW. Something fast paced and casual that people can dip into and out of with ease, having a good time for whatever amount of time they spent involved.
Please take the grind out of FW CCP, and if you have to completely remove the isk hose (I never liked FW missions anyway) to keep the exploiters out then so be it.
If people want to be bored out of their mind on a daily basis they have 0.0 to grind in. Let us have some fun in FW! Please!
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 15:20:00 -
[206]
Ideally you should have to kill all the defending NPCs to take the beacon. That said I agree this is just one of several poor game mechanics (along with the vigil issue and inexperienced alts).
Looking at that though I see another very similar problem that directly parallels this one. Currently a non-militia corp can wardec a militia corp and fire on them without worry of the other militia corps helping the target. The reason? Standings. The non-targeted militia corps would take a negative standings hit to defend the militia-mate. So what we have then is a situation where a gank-squad can cherry pick a couple to targets in a big militia fleet without being exposed to fire. This is no different from the current issue of allies not taking a standings hit and drawing fire its just "reversed".
I would support a fix to this issue ONLY IF at the same time CCP fixes it so a wardec on a militia corp makes one a target to that corps entire militia. Its common sense after all.
Archie
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 15:25:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire on the Vigil
True enough. But your experiences are from before the dirt cheap rigs came into being .. those damn things changed the small ship game immensely. Vigils are hardly used any more though, they have been replaced with EM/Therm rigged extended Rifters .. ab around with impunity in any and all Amarr plexes with added offensive capability
Originally by: Arkady Sadik On the timer bug
Funny. I have been petitioning people with irrefutable screenshots as evidence, even a chat log admitting guilt at one point and the pilots are still at large. Then again, there are GMs that have to ask what a plex is, what the bug is and everything in between .. unless the statement came from a veteran/senior GM or a producer/designer I would regard it as nonsense.
That is why a major overhaul is needed. There are so many flaws in the basic mechanics that even CCPs emploees can't keep up with the bug reports
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.08 15:30:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Funny. I have been petitioning people with irrefutable screenshots as evidence, even a chat log admitting guilt at one point and the pilots are still at large.
They get a nice mail from a GM saying "hi, you are using exploits. This is a warning, stop it, or you will get harsh consequences" - they need to repeat offenses to actually get banned or anything.
And the person petitioning always gets the same standard message: "Thanks, we're looking into it". CCP does not tell you what they're doing.
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Darius Shakor
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.12.08 16:24:00 -
[209]
Supported.
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Vincent Death
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 17:02:00 -
[210]
The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism. |
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