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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Kaeda Maxwell
Calamitous-Intent
203
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Posted - 2013.10.04 10:21:00 -
[421] - Quote
Will people go suspect shooting interbus CO's in highsec just like they do in Lowsec?
And please say yes, I'll be an instant fan of this feature then. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1222
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Posted - 2013.10.04 11:25:00 -
[422] - Quote
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:Will people go suspect shooting interbus CO's in highsec just like they do in Lowsec?
And please say yes, I'll be an instant fan of this feature then. Nope
CCP Paradox wrote:Panhead4411 wrote:So does this mean that in order to take down any current HS POCO's, we'll be tanking our standing with Interbus? No standing/security or suspect flag hit will happen. |
John B'dlam
Turing Machines Turing Tested
9
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Posted - 2013.10.04 12:04:00 -
[423] - Quote
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:Will people go suspect shooting interbus CO's in highsec just like they do in Lowsec?
And please say yes, I'll be an instant fan of this feature then. You don't go suspect shooting Interbus CO's in lowsec. Shooting POCO's in lowsec makes you go suspect. |
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.10.04 12:28:00 -
[424] - Quote
Mel Hython wrote:[T]he empires should sell the infrastructures and only to the high standings corps.
Different type of players need to have their own space. 0.0 is perfect for people with tons of time. Lucky them. Low is great for a bit of risk and combat, the realm of piracy and so. WH is like the little 0.0 pockets. But please, mantain High Sec for the people that loves the game but have really low number of hours to play. We are paying the month fee too. Why make taking control of hi-sec customs office military operation? Why not make it contractual, or bribery?
ISK-sinks are good, right?
Possibility A: Auction - similar to many real-world auctions now. InterBus auctions off right to operate Customs House for a (month? quarter?). Winner then collects the InterBus-determined rate from all exports, remits a percentage of that to InterBus, keeps the rest. Player cannot change rate, but can deny service to war-dec enemies.
Maybe there would be standing requirement, to participate in auction?
Maybe player could change rate, but cannot set rate higher than cap determined by InterBus?
Possibility B: Bribery - also similar to real-world! Player can bribe InterBus officials to take control of Customs Office for a month (or whatever period). Again, player can only increase rate up to InterBus cap.
Probably would be no standing requirement for this one.
Perhaps there is possibility that local Empire police come in and "clean house" with some probability, replacing corrupt InterBus officials and fining bribing player? Perhaps that probability increases as customs-rate increases an volume increases, as suffering victims of corrupt situation complain to politicians? |
Shadow' Broker
Negative-Impact Cult of War
3
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Posted - 2013.10.04 17:00:00 -
[425] - Quote
Looks like the New High sec Pocos a re gonna be a nice way to test the new Marauders right?
Also the 1man Corps out there with high-sec POSes could be a little worried in this manner. |
F'C
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:02:00 -
[426] - Quote
Mel Hython wrote: WE REALLY NEED A TOOL TO DO BOYCOTT. PLEASE CREATE IT.
If you want war every where, accept that the economical war is a way to do it.
If you are truly interested in hurting the goons financially with your PI industry, it's REALLY SIMPLE:
Switch all of your planets over to start making guidance systems. They have already TOLD you that they are heavily invested in them. It's not rocket science. |
Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
37
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:04:00 -
[427] - Quote
Aryth wrote:
I have not denied anything. As stated before, I was the one that developed the plans. But even those plans require less than 2% of highsec POCOS at most. Even that is a stretch and HIGHLY unlikely.
The game mechanics dictate that anyone big already has a fairly sizeable income stream thus far for their membership. That may not be alliance ISK and can take the form of membership ISK, but it is still income.
So mechanics dictate that the only mega entities holding POCOs will be ones that find it attractive to do so from either an income generation perspective or for PVP opportunities. Frankly there are better PVP generators for mega entities but some of this will occur. The ISK/RISK reward will have various cutoff points for corp/alliance sizes. But with the sheer # of planets in highsec/highsec islands it is not practical within the current game mechanics to hold a large portion.
People need sandcastles in EVE. PI has been a risk free wealth generator for quite some time now. We won't be the highsec PI boogeyman, but I sure hope a few dozen entities are. It will provide a natural progression path.
Highsec (PI,Decs) -> Lowsec (PVP,FW) -> WH (Small scale warfare, POS) -> Null (Large Scale warfare/SOV)
Will some people lose their risk free ISK machine? Yes Will they be able to relocate and find an appropriate tax location? Yes If anything people should be looking forward to taking some out of the way backwater POCO and setting their rate to 0% for their corp and charging others a modest tax. Why everyone is fixated on the Bloc/Alliance problem is beyond me.
Fixate on what happens in other scenarios, not that one.
I want to comment on this post out of this entire threadnaught because I think this is probably the most insightful and well thought out post of the lot. (Minus all his other and other goons trolling - which has reached a new record high in this thread I think.)
First off - I completely 110% agree that it is way too carebear that people made money doing hisec PI with no risk. This is so un EVE and life that it needed a boot. Granted I started out in EVE as an industrialist and like that aspect of the game, but there has to be risk/reward as Aryth says. Sandcastles people - sandcastles.
With that said though, I will reiterate my original point, that I think this game should probably always leave hisec as the de-facto learning ground but we already broke that years ago, with bumping, can flipping, suicide ganking, etc. Why I say this is because I do worry it will run potential players off by making the EVE learning curve even steeper.
(SIDE RANT: But I can tell EVERY PLAYER reading this right now that CCP DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THAT. They care about something greater, money. Every time a new player signs up, buys a ton of plex and ISK's up through their system they jump with joy! Subscriptions are nothing compared to the PLEX machine. People cry in this game about microtransactions and pay to win. Gimme a break. How can 90% of the player base be so dumb. The day PLEX was introduced with no complaining was the day pay to win came to EVE. You can take PLEX and buy a top of the line toon on Character Bazaar, then buy all the best ships. Simple. Yeah you have to get good at em and you will lose some, but what does CCP care. You have already invested a ton of cash into this hobby.)
Anyways - I digress. The reason I say all this is because Hisec is no longer Hisec people - it needs to only be called NPC Empire. A place CONCORDE exists and for how long, no clue. Up until now I (like the other 90% - do with that what you want Goon trolling brigade) thought that CCP had always designed Hi-sec to be a safe haven for LEARNING about the game...and that probably was the case; not anymore.
Get ready for the day when EVE is all about REALLY ALIGNING yourself with people of like minds. I wouldn't doubt if NPC Factions lose control of EMPIRE. IT is about the evolution of EVE. It is about Rubicon and the beginning of the end of the way things as we know it. CCP has developed the tools over the years, now they want to turn us lose to our own devices.
Aryth here just had to spell it out for all of us (myself included). Cheers mate.
/Grady
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None ofthe Above
803
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:39:00 -
[428] - Quote
I've held off on the standing issue, thinking about it hard.
I agree with many folks who don't want to deal with the standings, requiring people to do PvE in order to do business is a bit silly. The PvE system... and the standing system... are antiquated and illogical in many ways. Could use a complete revamp. I can imagine standings for doing commerce or industry in the empire or any number of things. (But that's another project entirely.)
But I do think requiring some standing and perhaps even Charters for POCOs would be an improvement on this system.
Failing to keep standing or Charters would cause the POCO to be considered abandoned and begin functioning like a generic CO.
Minimum standings probably don't need to be as high as for POSes. Cut them in half maybe? Or -5?
Please require at least a non negative standing with the "Sov" holder.
Yes I know that this doesn't block out null-blocks nor should it. But I think they should at least be required to put up the effort of a front.
Charters or some sort of low cost "fuel" seem like a good idea to keep this from becoming scatter and forget. Local involvement in their operation will lead to more interaction with the other players in the area. Or should this just be a passive hands off money print? The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
410
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 18:45:00 -
[429] - Quote
Really unless the last few vestiges of TEST somehow shove themselves into a POCO we're not going to be shooting a zillion of them The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal bring back images |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5140
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:58:00 -
[430] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote: Charters or some sort of low cost "fuel" seem like a good idea to keep this from becoming scatter and forget. Local involvement in their operation will lead to more interaction with the other players in the area. Or should this just be a passive hands off money print?
any poco forgotten can be cleared by a single afk domi willing to spend two nights in a row shooting it |
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None ofthe Above
803
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Posted - 2013.10.04 19:07:00 -
[431] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:Really unless the last few vestiges of TEST somehow shove themselves into a POCO we're not going to be shooting a zillion of them
I continue to be amused by the narrative you guys are using.
A combination of trying to act as if people giving feedback about the flaws in this system being all about utterly unfounded anti-goon paranoia, and conversely at times outright glee at the possibilities for griefing.
It really doesn't matter even if Goonswarm or all of CFC for that matter opts not to use this new system at all. There are flaws in the system and they will be exploited if not corrected. What was once a minimally useful part of the economy and a way of life for some people may end. Now if it's not desirable to have it, maybe it should just be removed, rather than this byzantine almost good feature. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5140
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 19:11:00 -
[432] - Quote
it does not destroy the need for pi nor the profitability of pi when we yoke pubbies to our pocos and whip isk out of them
they just pass the price on to the consumer |
None ofthe Above
803
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 19:13:00 -
[433] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:None ofthe Above wrote: Charters or some sort of low cost "fuel" seem like a good idea to keep this from becoming scatter and forget. Local involvement in their operation will lead to more interaction with the other players in the area. Or should this just be a passive hands off money print?
any poco forgotten can be cleared by a single afk domi willing to spend two nights in a row shooting it
Right... I'l just got on that... oh CONCORDOKKEN... I guess you forgot to mention the Wardec thing.
So that wakes people up and so does the reinforcement messages.
It's still passive until someone comes along and wakes you up. And there are quite a few hurdles for someone to cross (huge alliance isk decshield).
Many of these would be visited far less often than the allegedly passive income PI installations you folk call a money-print. The materials need to be collected moved to factory planets and be hauled off.
You just want to put things up and collect isk unless someone fights you. No need to expose pilots to the harsh rigor of space nor interact with the people in these systems.
Who is the carebear here? The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5140
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 19:15:00 -
[434] - Quote
the carebear is the person terrified away from a profitable poco because it displays the label CONDI
the wealthy profitable warlords are the people who can put their names on things and terrify away everyone else |
None ofthe Above
803
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 19:15:00 -
[435] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:it does not destroy the need for pi nor the profitability of pi when we yoke pubbies to our pocos and whip isk out of them
they just pass the price on to the consumer
Except you have to compete with low and nullsec PI. Margins are already thin on highsec PI. Easily could end up paying to do this. If the goal is to make this infeasible, probably would be cheaper and easier to just remove PI from high sec entirely. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5140
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 19:20:00 -
[436] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Weaselior wrote:it does not destroy the need for pi nor the profitability of pi when we yoke pubbies to our pocos and whip isk out of them
they just pass the price on to the consumer Except you have to compete with low and nullsec PI. Margins are already thin on highsec PI. Easily could end up paying to do this. If the goal is to make this infeasible, probably would be cheaper and easier to just remove PI from high sec entirely. transport ain't free, in time or isk |
None ofthe Above
803
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 19:22:00 -
[437] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:the carebear is the person terrified away from a profitable poco because it displays the label CONDI
the wealthy profitable warlords are the people who can put their names on things and terrify away everyone else
You sure its not the massive alliances that have grown fat on passive moongoo, looking for their next drug of choice for easy isk to fund their ship replacement programs that make their wars zero risk propositions?
Not as clear a distinction as you seem to think.
Anyway as much as you would like it to be, this not about you. It's about giving good feedback on game mechanics. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
None ofthe Above
803
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 19:26:00 -
[438] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:None ofthe Above wrote:Weaselior wrote:it does not destroy the need for pi nor the profitability of pi when we yoke pubbies to our pocos and whip isk out of them
they just pass the price on to the consumer Except you have to compete with low and nullsec PI. Margins are already thin on highsec PI. Easily could end up paying to do this. If the goal is to make this infeasible, probably would be cheaper and easier to just remove PI from high sec entirely. transport ain't free, in time or isk
A valid point, but refutes nothing I've said. It does get baked into the market competition though. Worth pointing out. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Angus McRothimay
Ordo Aetemas Noctis
0
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Posted - 2013.10.04 19:47:00 -
[439] - Quote
All very interesting - I don't care who owns them I just want to know if it's possible to gank a customs office gantry before it comes online... |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1254
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 20:16:00 -
[440] - Quote
So we have gone from RABBLE RABBLE Goons gonna take over all of highsec. To they have a wardec shield because of the cost. Developing now into they are going to take all the plasmas!
None of the above is accurate. But hey keep theorycrafting guys a couple posters in here got really close to the truth. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
245
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Posted - 2013.10.04 20:23:00 -
[441] - Quote
I've pieced it together
goons will seize all the customs offices in the fifth planet of every system
thus maximizing the number of fives available |
None ofthe Above
817
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Posted - 2013.10.04 20:24:00 -
[442] - Quote
Aryth wrote:None of the above is accurate.
So glad you agree. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
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Posted - 2013.10.04 20:31:00 -
[443] - Quote
The veritable river of tears in this thread is amazing and worth the laugh.
The best post is the FA guy crying over his hisec PI because PI in fountain is so terrible (unless that was a very good troll). |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1254
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 20:45:00 -
[444] - Quote
Johan March wrote:The veritable river of tears in this thread is amazing and worth the laugh.
The best post is the FA guy crying over his hisec PI because PI in fountain is so terrible (unless that was a very good troll).
I think he forgot to switch the character displayed. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Habaticus
2
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Posted - 2013.10.04 23:45:00 -
[445] - Quote
On this subject;
I just need to say that I'm disheartened. Very very disheartened, After five years I'm close. Very very close.
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Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2013.10.04 23:50:00 -
[446] - Quote
Ah, well. PI was good while it lasted.
-Æ-ü-Ŧü-¦-+-+-â -+¦ü-¦-+-ë-â -ü-¦-+-æ -¦-Ç-¦¦ü-+-Å. |
Ohyaku
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.10.05 01:21:00 -
[447] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Elana Maggal wrote:So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".
PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.
heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people
Like heaven forbid you and the Goons might have advantages from being able to run CCP and CSM that the rest of us don't have the opportunity to realize....... |
Ohyaku
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.10.05 01:58:00 -
[448] - Quote
I have an Two ideas......
1. Instead of introducing POCO's in high sec, just introduce CCP's new skill to lower the tax rate for import and export; instantly making it a skill book worth buying and training to 5.
2. Instead of modifying the tax base of the goods every two years, program the tax base to be the average buy price of the goods for each region for the preceding month or week. CCP employes programers does it not? Therefor let them program the tax base of each individual manufactured good and base material to reflect what they are actually being bought for in each region in real time, as opposed to every two years.
Implementing 1 and 2 would be a much improved plan rather than the current corrupt and adversely influenced scheme however if CCP doesn't have any programmers who are up to the task of real time tax scales on the goods and materials, at least just introduce idea number 1 and get rid of the player owned POCO idea.
(NOTE THAT THE PROPOSED (OR ALREADY DECIDED) TAX BASE IS WAY TOO HIGH FOR WHAT MOST GOODS ARE GOING FOR NOW!) |
ButtFungus
SOONWAFFE
5
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Posted - 2013.10.05 02:06:00 -
[449] - Quote
This thread is EPIC! With one swift stroke of the Developer's pen, thousands of solo hiseccers have been turned into Bittervets overnight. The disruption in the force nearly knocked me off my seat. Or maybe it was my thoughts of all those carebear-turned-bittervet players forming their own alliance and driving off the nullsec threat made me laugh so hard that I nearly fell off my seat. Imagine thousands of one-man-gang corps banding together to form a blob to challenge goons or RvB and all of them just wandering around fighting however they wish because there are no leaders and none of them would listen to one anyway. A YouTube video of that would be viral overnight! Please Please PLEASE CCP make this happen! Suggestion for CCP Logo New Corporate Logo |
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2013.10.05 03:33:00 -
[450] - Quote
ButtFungus wrote:[M]y thoughts of all those carebear-turned-bittervet players forming their own alliance and driving off the nullsec threat made me laugh so hard that I nearly fell off my seat. Imagine thousands of one-man-gang corps banding together to form a blob to challenge goons or RvB and all of them just wandering around fighting however they wish because there are no leaders and none of them would listen to one anyway. A YouTube video of that would be viral overnight! Please Please PLEASE CCP make this happen! Would not the organizational and leadership effort required, to create and sustain a competitive coalition of players, each of whom is able to spend only one hour/day in-Game, greater than the effort required when each player can spend six or ten hours in-Game? I wonder whether such a coalition is possible, even in principle. Its leaders would have to be super-human.
There is a fundamental Game-design problem here: if CCP want money from low-intensity players, CCP have to make low-intensity play viable.
Of course, if CCP want only money from high-intensity players, ... |
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