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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Onslaughtor
Occult National Security Affirmative.
81
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Posted - 2014.03.08 09:09:00 -
[1291] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:not engaging isn't really a good counter Odd. Thats the only counter allowed to most PvE boats. Having it on the one line of ships breaks nothing and gives those ships a known element of danger. do you know what a dreadnought is As it happens I do. What is the point to the question? I know the 90% web is very powerful. If it was on any ship that could fit a web it would be stupid... However, its only on serpentis ships, which meams you maybe take unusual care around an unusual ship.
I fit Vindicator drones to my dreads, just saying. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
261
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 09:26:00 -
[1292] - Quote
Quote:The reality is that if you fit two webs on a standard, unbonused ship or two ships with a web you almost have the same effect as the serp bonus.
Thats not even close man. 2 serp webs will get you down to 2% speed or so... |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
536
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 13:14:00 -
[1293] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:[...] This is the only thing the Dramiel can shine in, and that's sad. Because with the mobile depots at hand, i can also just fit an MWD to my Firetail instead of an ab, and eat said kiting ships alive, too.
There will be people still flying Dramiels, yes. Maybe even I will. But it will certainly not be the best choice for the things i intend to do.
Fan of the dramiel right here. I think a huge and apparently underestimated advantage is the dps-output for a dramiel without any damageamps added. Even going full stock with 150s, a rocket launcher and hobgoblins, you'll end up at roughly 180+dps with near all of your fittings still free, allowing for MSE, MSE#MASB, dualrep-armor and whatnot.
I use the dramiel less for it's offensive qualities, but rather for its insane mobility and flexible damage-application + sigtanking. However, the same will apply to the dramiel that applied earlier to the Tempest, Hurricane, Rifter and Stiletto - the Dram wasn't good recently, but it hasn't been ****** enough to be labeled *broken*. So with the competition making leaps forward, the Dramiel will be the new trash-tier, and my dualprop-dualrep drams most likely hauled and locked to the nearest station - replaced by succubi. :<
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
Silverbackyererse
41
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Posted - 2014.03.08 13:57:00 -
[1294] - Quote
Pirate ships should be a little special.
The DD has it (Web Strength) , the proposed Cruor has it (Web Range / NOS).
NFI what's going to happen with the Worm's 'super drones' but it's different and could be called special I guess. NFI what's gonna happen with the Succ but it too Is different and can certainly be called special.
Seems to me though, that the Dram is being left out in the cold much like the Succ and Worm were previously. Please don't do that CCP Rise. If the changes go through then it will be left way behind.
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Sieonigh
Tactical Tea Baggers Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
13
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Posted - 2014.03.08 17:09:00 -
[1295] - Quote
ok i weigh in my 2 cents,
i feel the dram and the daredevil have to low HP amounts.
__________________________total DRAMIEL____590 / 590 / 520___1700 DAREDEVIL__530 / 560 / 630___1720 WORM______830 / 500 / 620___1950 wow CRUOR_____480 / 740 / 580___1800 SUCCUBUS__650 / 550 / 540___1740 ASTERO_____540 / 600 / 600___1740
now given that the astero is a cloky ship should it not be the one with the lowest HP? not trying to incite a nerf on it but rather a slight buff to the dram, daredevil ? at liest the succubus has its main tank HP stacked more on the shilds |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
664
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 18:28:00 -
[1296] - Quote
Sieonigh wrote:ok i weigh in my 2 cents,
i feel the dram and the daredevil have to low HP amounts.
__________________________total DRAMIEL____590 / 590 / 520___1700 DAREDEVIL__530 / 560 / 630___1720 WORM______830 / 500 / 620___1950 wow CRUOR_____480 / 740 / 580___1800 SUCCUBUS__650 / 550 / 540___1740 ASTERO_____540 / 600 / 600___1740
now given that the astero is a cloky ship should it not be the one with the lowest HP? not trying to incite a nerf on it but rather a slight buff to the dram, daredevil ? at liest the succubus has its main tank HP stacked more on the shilds
i have been saying this about dram and DD ... dramiel being angel is supposed to be shield tanked and DD armour tank .. dram and DD need to have more HP stacked on their main tank.. succubus could use more too.
DRAMIEL____640 / 540 / 570___1750 DAREDEVIL__500 / 650 / 620___1770 SUCCUBUS__720 / 510 / 560___1790 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
bassie12bf1
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
43
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Posted - 2014.03.08 19:36:00 -
[1297] - Quote
I feel like the current succubus hull is kinda too bulky to have anything related to speed, though the other Sansha frigate that's only used for rats does seem the right kinda look for speed if you ask me. |
Fourteen Maken
VipeRs Pit
134
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 19:48:00 -
[1298] - Quote
PeanutButter JellyTime22 wrote:I really don't understand the Cruor change, if anything it's making the ship WORSE, the two bonuses are now mutually exclusive. You can't make use of the neut/nos bonus outside of 7km in which case the web bonus becomes obsolete, and vice versa. Having to choose between which of the ship's bonuses that you want to use is very poor planning and really needs to be reworked. The only reason the Bhaalgorn works well with the web bonus is because it's neuts have a 30km range and therefore both bonuses can be used together and complement each other. This will not work on the Cruor because the ranges involved do not complement each other, the neuts need more range (if so, why not just buy a senintel?) or the webs need to go back to 90% again. Besides, what is the reasoning behind reducing the ship's PG? It makes the ship a horror to fit, with mis-matched bonuses and a nice shiny price tag with absolutely no reason for said price tag. If you want to improve the ship so that people might fly it, it needs a 4th mid slot so it can use both a web and cap booster, along with the fitting to do so. Then just leave it alone. If you want to nerf the ship so that it becomes worse than the current Succubus in terms of being useful, keep it up, it will be
TL;DR: The Cruor bonuses cannot be used together and need to be reworked.
The Web range bonus on the Cruor is useful to counter kiters, with overheated faction webs I think the range is like 36km... that's extremely useful regardless of the range of your weapons, for either closing down or for GTFO. Nice buff imo, looks like it's got good survivability in solo low sec roams.
EDIT: also really liking the new Worm |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Gank for Profit
77
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 20:49:00 -
[1299] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:The Web range bonus on the Cruor is useful to counter kiters, with overheated faction webs I think the range is like 36km... that's extremely useful regardless of the range of your weapons, for either closing down or for GTFO. Nice buff imo, looks like it's got good survivability in solo low sec roams. EDIT: also really liking the new Worm
only if your opponent does not have a web, if he does you will not get further then 13km, in falloff of your lasers and not able to use your neuts/nos at all
Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
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Onslaughtor
Occult National Security Affirmative.
82
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Posted - 2014.03.09 07:00:00 -
[1300] - Quote
Crazy KSK wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote:The Web range bonus on the Cruor is useful to counter kiters, with overheated faction webs I think the range is like 36km... that's extremely useful regardless of the range of your weapons, for either closing down or for GTFO. Nice buff imo, looks like it's got good survivability in solo low sec roams. EDIT: also really liking the new Worm only if your opponent does not have a web, if he does you will not get further then 13km, in falloff of your lasers and not able to use your neuts/nos at all
If he does you will get just as close as he will and then they will have NO cap, and you will have all of it. sure they may still be able to fire sometimes with some weapons, but prop, most tanks, and point/web would struggle with what is basically a capless neut that recharges its users cap. Also if you don't insist on only using it solo, it becomes a simply amazing support ship for any small gang. A long range web bonus is something that very few ships have and only 1 out of the non t2+ line, and only 2 of them can really fit a armor tank. Ok yes maybe the Cruor could be the perfect solo facwar ship, but your really looking at it from the wrong way. The Cruor sets the stage for the rest of the line and its range web bonus is ultimately more effective than a effectiveness bonus, as with it you can actually catch your opponent in the first place.
& RISE, KEEP SANSHA SANSHA! |
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Fourteen Maken
VipeRs Pit
134
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Posted - 2014.03.09 18:03:00 -
[1301] - Quote
Crazy KSK wrote:Fourteen Maken wrote:The Web range bonus on the Cruor is useful to counter kiters, with overheated faction webs I think the range is like 36km... that's extremely useful regardless of the range of your weapons, for either closing down or for GTFO. Nice buff imo, looks like it's got good survivability in solo low sec roams. EDIT: also really liking the new Worm only if your opponent does not have a web, if he does you will not get further then 13km, in falloff of your lasers and not able to use your neuts/nos at all
meh can't win them all, you always have the option to burn out if you don't like the look of things whereas the other guy won't be able to get away unless you let him. Going from the stats in the op It looks to be a good ship for solo; if the fight starts at range I can't imagine many frigates or even interceptors could pin it down without faction gear, if it starts up close you can use your nos to win the cap war against almost anything. That covers a lot of solo fights that you can either win or get away from at will, it's all down to timing and judging things right but it should be good value for money. |
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 23:17:00 -
[1302] - Quote
I really think the actual effectiveness of the Cruor mis-matched bonuses will remain a mystery until we get them on the test server. Their are definite pros and cons when looking at it on paper. To a lesser extent the effect of the proposed changes to the Worm and Succubus will also be interesting when they are actually flown instead of us just modifying our fitting tools. |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
368
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 10:50:00 -
[1303] - Quote
Sansha nation is abducting people from all nations in EVE. They are assimilating them, and connecting their minds to their collective. Those people are working then for glory of Sansha.
Why we cannot make Sansha ships to have benefits from all 4 races ships skills? (bonuses are just suggestions - probably OP, but utilizing 4 race ship bonus is good move)
SUCCUBUS
Amarr Frigate Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)
Minmatar Frigate Bonus: 4% bonus to Agility
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 4% of Warp Distruptor and Scrambler Range Per level
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)
Phantasm
Amarr Cruiser Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking speed
Caldari Cruiser Bonus: 20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus
Minmatar Cruiser Bonus: 4% bonus to Agility
Gallent Cruiser Bonus : 4% of Warp Distruptor and Scrambler Range Per level
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage * |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1328
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 11:28:00 -
[1304] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Sansha nation is abducting people from all nations in EVE. They are assimilating them, and connecting their minds to their collective. Those people are working then for glory of Sansha.
Why we cannot make Sansha ships to have benefits from all 4 races ships skills? (bonuses are just suggestions - probably OP, but utilizing 4 race ship bonus is good move)
SUCCUBUS
Amarr Frigate Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)
Minmatar Frigate Bonus: 4% bonus to Agility
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 4% of Warp Distruptor and Scrambler Range Per level
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)
Phantasm
Amarr Cruiser Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking speed
Caldari Cruiser Bonus: 20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus
Minmatar Cruiser Bonus: 4% bonus to Agility
Gallent Cruiser Bonus : 4% of Warp Distruptor and Scrambler Range Per level
Role Bonus: 150% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
ccp never chanes a ship so that someone that is able to fly it now will not be able to undock with it after the patch "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
368
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 11:48:00 -
[1305] - Quote
But those 2 additional races don't have to be mandatory to fly this hull. If you have those skills you will get additional benefits.
People that tried to fly Phantasm, know it is to slow , cap depended , to low DPS when compared to T1 cruisers not talking about other faction or t2 ships.
* |
Asa Shahni
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 13:25:00 -
[1306] - Quote
Am i the only one who thinks the cruor changes are worthless ?
Thing is you have a bonus to web range now but your neut/nos still have that 6.5km range so whats the point of having long range webs if you have to get into unbonused web range to use the ship to his full potention which is neuting the **** out of other people's ships.
I personaly think that this "new flavor" cruor is already broken unless you give something else or give him a range bonus on neut/nos to ballance things out . |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1328
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 15:02:00 -
[1307] - Quote
Asa Shahni wrote:Am i the only one who thinks the cruor changes are worthless ? Thing is you have a bonus to web range now but your neut/nos still have that 6.5km range so whats the point of having long range webs if you have to get into unbonused web range to use the ship to his full potention which is neuting the **** out of other people's ships. I personaly think that this "new flavor" cruor is already broken unless you give something else or give him a range bonus on neut/nos to ballance things out .
Nope.. EVERYONE that uses pirate ships know the new cruor is useless. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1328
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 15:03:00 -
[1308] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:But those 2 additional races don't have to be mandatory to fly this hull. If you have those skills you will get additional benefits.
People that tried to fly Phantasm, know it is to slow , cap depended , to low DPS when compared to T1 cruisers not talking about other faction or t2 ships.
And that is what the proposed change corrects dammit. Fit a 10 MN AB and you are a mosnter on the new frigate. Fit a 100MN AB on the cruiser.. same effect.
Anyoen that thinks the new snasha ships are weak have no clue about small scale PVP. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
516
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 15:13:00 -
[1309] - Quote
Cruor looks perfect for anti kite duty. Webbing, catching and neuting its prey. I personally like it |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 15:14:00 -
[1310] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:But those 2 additional races don't have to be mandatory to fly this hull. If you have those skills you will get additional benefits.
People that tried to fly Phantasm, know it is to slow , cap depended , to low DPS when compared to T1 cruisers not talking about other faction or t2 ships.
Even if they aren't required to undock, they might as well either be worthless bonuses or mandatory because if they're any good at all they will be considered minimum standard.
I like the idea of a ship recieving bonuses from all racial skills, but I really dislike the idea at the moment due to the imbalance in pirate hulls.
For example, pirate ships get bonuses from the following skills (in brackets if Sanshas got bonuses from all races).
Gallente: 4 (5) - Serpentis, Angels, Sisters of EVE, Guristas, (Sanshas) Minmatar: 3 (4) - Serpentis, Angels, Blood Raiders, (Sanshas) Amarr: 3 (3) - Blood Raiders, Sisters of EVE, Sanshas Caldari: 2 (2) - Guristas, Sanshas
At present there is a large imbalance in the pirate hulls to each race with Gallente granting access and bonuses to the most, and with Caldari only having two accessible pirate groups to choose from. Personally I'd like to see yet another Amarr-Caldari line to match the Serp/Angels, and a Caldari-Minmatar line to round things off, then maybe we could see a new line that is bonused by all four racial ship skills, as no race is left behind on the pirate front. |
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PopeUrban
El Expedicion
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 16:22:00 -
[1311] - Quote
I really enjoyed the drones/missiles setup I was able to achieve on the Gnosis, so it's encouraging to see the wrom get some love, as I'm much more comfortable flying frigs than slow arsed battlecruisers.
The concept of megadrones seems interesting, but I wonder at the utility of it. Drone HP isn't nearly as valuable as drone velocity, which is used to capitalize on their small signatures.
I can't see the "pimp my drone" setup being truly useful unless you're hooking them up with a bit of velocity and EWAR resistance so that it isn't super easy to just wipe out half of your effective drone DPS with a single module.
I like the IDEA of "rawr, two badass drones" as it sounds fun, and could make for some hilarious mining traps with a cloaked worm escort, but I can't see just giving them more HP as making them equivalent to 4 drones. I think that's really the sweet spot. if you're outputting 6 effective drones worth of DPS, how about 4 drone's worth of tank, with the added bonus that that tank is more resistant to smartbombs due to its condensed nature? |
King Rothgar
Aegis Interplanetary .Inc Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
376
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 16:58:00 -
[1312] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Asa Shahni wrote:Am i the only one who thinks the cruor changes are worthless ? Thing is you have a bonus to web range now but your neut/nos still have that 6.5km range so whats the point of having long range webs if you have to get into unbonused web range to use the ship to his full potention which is neuting the **** out of other people's ships. I personaly think that this "new flavor" cruor is already broken unless you give something else or give him a range bonus on neut/nos to ballance things out . Nope.. EVERYONE that uses pirate ships know the new cruor is useless.
Indeed. I like the neut/nos change on them, but the web change is, in all honesty, a massive nerf to an already underpowered ship. Unless a range bonus is added to both the turrets and the neut/nos as well, then there is absolutely no point in a web range bonus. The ship must be setup for brawling or kiting, mixing the two does not work. This has been shown time and time again with previous ship bonuses that have since been revised.
This is even more problematic for the Ashimmu, a ship that already works very well in the role of heavy tackler. The ashimmu has low dps and a very average tank for a faction cruiser, but anything it touches is instantly brought to a dead stop, even interceptors. The proposed NOS change would fit in perfectly for it and I think have the desired effect. However, the web change cripples the ship. The ONLY thing it has going for it is the ability to tackle, it isn't going to win the gank/tank fight unless it's dps output is doubled. It is a support ship like a HIC, you don't want a fleet of them. Just 1 or 2.
Changing the web bonus from strength to range destroys that super tackle ability it currently has. At that point, it doesn't really offer anything not done better by other ships. The reason the web range bonus works on the Bhaalgorn is because large neuts and BS guns both work at the extended web range. That is not the case for frigate and cruiser class mods. Also, change the web range bonus on the Bhaalgorn to the strength bonus, no reason it should be left out on the awesome webs. Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1218
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 17:07:00 -
[1313] - Quote
Komodo Askold wrote:
EDIT: I'm looking forward to this new Worm! A frig that uses 2 drones that count as 8, or each one as 4, in terms of both damage and hitpoints... Can't wait to see the Gila and the Rattlesnake!
I don't see the bonus pattern translating well to the Gila/RS
2x Large Drones/Sentries is 50m3 5x Hammerheads is 50m3
I'm fairly certain 5 hammerheads is more dps than 2 sentries/heavies |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
292
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 18:11:00 -
[1314] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Asa Shahni wrote:Am i the only one who thinks the cruor changes are worthless ? Thing is you have a bonus to web range now but your neut/nos still have that 6.5km range so whats the point of having long range webs if you have to get into unbonused web range to use the ship to his full potention which is neuting the **** out of other people's ships. I personaly think that this "new flavor" cruor is already broken unless you give something else or give him a range bonus on neut/nos to ballance things out . Nope.. EVERYONE that uses pirate ships know the new cruor is useless. Indeed. I like the neut/nos change on them, but the web change is, in all honesty, a massive nerf to an already underpowered ship. Unless a range bonus is added to both the turrets and the neut/nos as well, then there is absolutely no point in a web range bonus. The ship must be setup for brawling or kiting, mixing the two does not work. This has been shown time and time again with previous ship bonuses that have since been revised. This is even more problematic for the Ashimmu, a ship that already works very well in the role of heavy tackler. The ashimmu has low dps and a very average tank for a faction cruiser, but anything it touches is instantly brought to a dead stop, even interceptors. The proposed NOS change would fit in perfectly for it and I think have the desired effect. However, the web change cripples the ship. The ONLY thing it has going for it is the ability to tackle, it isn't going to win the gank/tank fight unless it's dps output is doubled. It is a support ship like a HIC, you don't want a fleet of them. Just 1 or 2.
As far as frigates go the new cruor is completely useless completely agree. however in current warfare the ashimmu is the ONLY t1 cruiser that can survive in a t2 cruiser tank because of it being one of the hugest tanks for t1 cruisers.
For the new web bonus to work on the ashimmu it WILL need more mids and its gonna need a bigger bonus to the web range for this to ever be considered.
we already asked for another mid on the cruor to make the new bonus work but. we have yet to see this change
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Caval Marten
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
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Posted - 2014.03.10 19:08:00 -
[1315] - Quote
Still not sold on the Cruor..
Right now with the 90% web you have a chance of catching someone and bringing them into neut range.
With the proposed changes, it's still the slowest pirate frig so what does the web range bonus do? You catch someone out to 20km but you cant scram them, apply damage, or neut them. If you close down to your damage application range, now webs are applied on you and the opponent will dictate range.
This might work in fleets but who brings pirate frigs to fleets anyway. Pirate frigs have always been a soloers niche.
If the Cruor doesn't keep it's current web velocity bonus, consider a damage or neut range bonus. |
King Rothgar
Aegis Interplanetary .Inc Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
376
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 19:36:00 -
[1316] - Quote
If you want a long range webber, bring a Rapier, Huginn, Loki or Hyena. The point of the blood raider ships is the powerful neuts + webs to completely incapacitate an enemy ship. In order for that to work, the ranges of the two EW systems must be more or less matched. Having 80km webs with 6 to 12km neuts/nos isn't overly useful as you can only use one bonus at a time in that case. Currently you can use both very well together. The 90% web at 23km (fed navy web + t3 skirmish links) allows you to crash any reasonable gap to neut/nos range in a matter of seconds. And once in neut range, that 90% web is still crippling.
If the bonuses are changed as proposed, we have the following:
1) A webbing Cruor or Ashimmu that doesn't even bother fitting neut/nos since it is kiting and will never get them in range.
2) A NOSing Cruor or Ashimmu that has a web but doesn't take advantage of the range bonus since all combat is within normal web range anyways.
See the problem?
The current Cruor is actually completely fine from a bonus standpoint. The real problem lies in a lack of slots and fittings. In order for our current Cruor to work, it needs a 4th midslot + the PG/CPU to fit a small t2 cap booster. It cannot gain that slot through losing one anywhere else, it's simply short a slot. With the NOS bonus, it doesn't need the cap booster or the 4th mid. And so with only the NOS change, the ship is basically fixed. It still isn't a great ship, but it has some uses. To be more useful it needs more damage output compared to the current one on the live server. 110 dps is a bit on the anemic side imho.
The Ashimmu requires no changes as it is currently performing very well. However, I don't think any would complain if the NOS change went through. It would be a double buff in fact, as it would allow for skipping the cap booster and thus be able to fit a pair of 90% webs. Now that is powerful indeed! The web range bonus swap would remove that new ability however. As suddenly you'd need 2 webs to get almost the same effect and the range bonus is, as stated numerous times, of no value to the Ashimmu. Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher. |
Goldensaver
Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 20:23:00 -
[1317] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Komodo Askold wrote:
EDIT: I'm looking forward to this new Worm! A frig that uses 2 drones that count as 8, or each one as 4, in terms of both damage and hitpoints... Can't wait to see the Gila and the Rattlesnake!
I don't see the bonus pattern translating well to the Gila/RS 2x Large Drones/Sentries is 50m3 5x Hammerheads is 50m3 I'm fairly certain 5 hammerheads is more dps than 2 sentries/heavies [edit] I can only think of 2 solutions - add a 'Max Drone in Space -3' bonus - completely overhaul drones (long overdue anyway) but I'm sure the devs have something in mind to limit the potential for exploitability p.s it's high time drones were treated as the s/m/l weapon systems they are, and have those class limits applied to all applicable hulls I really don't get why people assume it NEEDS to be a 300% bonus to all. I don't see why we can't have a number of role bonuses with the same intent so we have, say, for a medium based Gurista ship a 20mbits/s bandwidth with a 300% bonus to mediums and a 100% bonus to lights giving an effective 8 of each still, and for a heavy/sentry a 50mbit/s with a 60% bonus to lights and mediums and a 300% bonus to heavies/sentries. Still 8 of each, doesn't make, say, the lights ridiculously overpowered. |
Giullare
Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 08:50:00 -
[1318] - Quote
Rattlesnake (worm and gila also) need a special bonus like other pirate bs.
Mach has cruiser hull speed + damage projection
vindi has top dps + 90% web
bhaalgorn has neut + web range
nightmare like the rattlesnake has nothing special but still worth aroudn 800 mil like other pirate bs.
If someone fly a pirate bs want to experience something can't achieve with t1 or navy ships.
Right now a rattlesnake has only tank, like a scorpion navy and a worse damage application than a t1 dominix or a cruiser hull like ishtar.
Give guristas and sansha ships unique bonuses that make them worth flying.
Right now rattlesnake/nightmare/gila/phantasm are bad copy of t1/t2 variants while pirate ships should be on top of perfomance. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
68
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Posted - 2014.03.11 09:42:00 -
[1319] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:If you want a long range webber, bring a Rapier, Huginn, Loki or Hyena. The point of the blood raider ships is the powerful neuts + webs to completely incapacitate an enemy ship. In order for that to work, the ranges of the two EW systems must be more or less matched. Having 80km webs with 6 to 12km neuts/nos isn't overly useful as you can only use one bonus at a time in that case. Currently you can use both very well together. The 90% web at 23km (fed navy web + t3 skirmish links) allows you to crash any reasonable gap to neut/nos range in a matter of seconds. And once in neut range, that 90% web is still crippling.
If the bonuses are changed as proposed, we have the following:
1) A webbing Cruor or Ashimmu that doesn't even bother fitting neut/nos since it is kiting and will never get them in range.
2) A NOSing Cruor or Ashimmu that has a web but doesn't take advantage of the range bonus since all combat is within normal web range anyways.
See the problem?
The current Cruor is actually completely fine from a bonus standpoint. The real problem lies in a lack of slots and fittings. In order for our current Cruor to work, it needs a 4th midslot + the PG/CPU to fit a small t2 cap booster. It cannot gain that slot through losing one anywhere else, it's simply short a slot. With the NOS bonus, it doesn't need the cap booster or the 4th mid. And so with only the NOS change, the ship is basically fixed. It still isn't a great ship, but it has some uses. To be more useful it needs more damage output compared to the current one on the live server. 110 dps is a bit on the anemic side imho.
The Ashimmu requires no changes as it is currently performing very well. However, I don't think any would complain if the NOS change went through. It would be a double buff in fact, as it would allow for skipping the cap booster and thus be able to fit a pair of 90% webs. Now that is powerful indeed! The web range bonus swap would remove that new ability however as suddenly you'd need 2 webs to get almost the same effect. And the range bonus is, as stated numerous times, of no value to the Ashimmu. Everyone has been saying this throughout the whole thread. Along with the Sansha proposal and Worm bonuses being disliked and this all repeated on many occasions with many good alternative solutions proposed, Rise as he has stated appears to be perfectly happy with everything.
It makes one wonder if there is any point to giving feedback when even when the feedback is overwhelming it is still deemed to be wrong by CCP. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1328
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Posted - 2014.03.11 09:53:00 -
[1320] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Asa Shahni wrote:Am i the only one who thinks the cruor changes are worthless ? Thing is you have a bonus to web range now but your neut/nos still have that 6.5km range so whats the point of having long range webs if you have to get into unbonused web range to use the ship to his full potention which is neuting the **** out of other people's ships. I personaly think that this "new flavor" cruor is already broken unless you give something else or give him a range bonus on neut/nos to ballance things out . Nope.. EVERYONE that uses pirate ships know the new cruor is useless. Indeed. I like the neut/nos change on them, but the web change is, in all honesty, a massive nerf to an already underpowered ship. Unless a range bonus is added to both the turrets and the neut/nos as well, then there is absolutely no point in a web range bonus. The ship must be setup for brawling or kiting, mixing the two does not work. This has been shown time and time again with previous ship bonuses that have since been revised. This is even more problematic for the Ashimmu, a ship that already works very well in the role of heavy tackler. The ashimmu has low dps and a very average tank for a faction cruiser, but anything it touches is instantly brought to a dead stop, even interceptors. The proposed NOS change would fit in perfectly for it and I think have the desired effect. However, the web change cripples the ship. The ONLY thing it has going for it is the ability to tackle, it isn't going to win the gank/tank fight unless it's dps output is doubled. It is a support ship like a HIC, you don't want a fleet of them. Just 1 or 2. Changing the web bonus from strength to range destroys that super tackle ability it currently has. At that point, it doesn't really offer anything not done better by other ships. The reason the web range bonus works on the Bhaalgorn is because large neuts and BS guns both work at the extended web range. That is not the case for frigate and cruiser class mods. Also, change the web range bonus on the Bhaalgorn to the strength bonus, no reason it should be left out on the awesome webs.
The point you are wrong is on the ashimmu.
It will work ok aven better for the ashimu. THe problem is Nos and web bonus is not the range difference between then NOS and the bonused web. It is between the nso and the NON BONUSED web the enemy ship is using.
In the cruor that means that you web him first, but before you get in your small nos range, he webs you , and sicne you are NOT in a fast frigate, you will nto be able to push into the NOS range, therefore your nos is useless.
With the ashimmu this problem is near non existant, sicne the medium NOS and medium euts basically match non bonused web range. THat means you web enemy first and that gives you leverage to brign him into your neut range very fast and he cannot avoid it usign his own web.
Ashimmu will be very strong with this new set of bonuses.
The cruor.. will be dead.
Bhalghorns woudl have NO use at ALL for web strenght bonus. Neuts do nto track, therefore 90% webs are irrelevant. The bhallghorn just need to catch enemies passing by his neuts.
Givign 90% webs to bhaalghorn would be a huge nerf .. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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