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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
mkint
1073
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:55:00 -
[511] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Right, so this announcement is not a net nerf to high sec? No, it buffs it pretty significantly, bringing faster and better abilities than it ever had before. You're usually good with the market stuff. Didn't you read the dev blog? It says very very explicitly, that an absolutely maxed out (someone else did the math that it's 200 days worth of skills, i.e., nearly equivalent to a titan parking alt) would STILL have a lower refining yield than now. The dev blog also listed a more normal loss amount as well, at a 30% nerf to all empire refining. Not to mention the unapologetic PVE nerf. This change is yet another wealth redistribution. It gives (yes, gives, because it's a freebie, result of CSM politics) nullsec alliances a 60% or so economic advantage in anything that's made out of minerals (i.e. those super caps they use to hang onto their sov, and oh by the way get even better mineral compression than ever to help build.) That data is right there in the dev blog, and it just takes arithmetic. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Melek D'Ivri
Propst Mining Services
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:58:00 -
[512] - Quote
strikethree wrote:Look. No matter how you spin it, you are making things harder and taking things away from us. Here is a particularly revealing quote from the dev blog: "Decreasing reprocessing efficiency as a whole affects the outcome of mining, which really doesnGÇÖt need to be nerfed right now."
So you are planning on nerfing mining as well in the future.
Why do you insist on making things harder and harder and less lucrative to the players? Where is the payoff for me? Where is the ISK to be made for the average player?
The end result of all this nerfing will be a game that has no rewards for the person paying to have fun.
You nerfed ice belts, you nerfed rats, you nerfed missions, you nerfed the amount and type of loot,you nerfed anoms, when are you going to be giving instead of taking? The only thing I ever remember you (CCP/Eve Devs) giving is artillery and autocannons. They were pointless to train for years and a few years ago, you un-nerfed them... but then nerfed the tracking enhancer.
Really, why should I continue giving you my money? Why should I continue giving you my money when you continuously make the game less fun and plan on continuing to do so? What is the draw for the casual player? The person who works 12 hours a day? You LIVE this game so none if this is all that serious to you. I can only visit occasionally, so each nerf makes it more and more impossible for me to have any fun since I can not earn any resources.
Ultimately, this game will NOT survive if it is all about alliances and null sec. You need casual players. Lots of them. Stop trying to turn us away by removing the ability to get resources. Actually *think* about what it is like for us. We can not mine for 6 hours a day. We can not run dozens of a missions a day. We can not run alliances out in null (we can barely even participate in any of the battles!). Think about us please.
Damn that is good stuff. Please run for CSM, you actually seem vested in the average player unlike the rest of candidates and seat warmers I've seen. |
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:58:00 -
[513] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:No.
Rather it takes too much time and effort to be even remotely profitable. I can, for instance go kills rats in null anomalies in the same time that takes for me to mine, carry the ore to the empire where I can refine it efficiently and make more ISK.
And CCP has come up with a hilariously unwise 'fix' to that by choosing to capitalize on this problem by making refining a bigger time sink then it was before, equally in empire and in null.
Do you really think this will effect any serious null dweller negatively? Because your average null dweller in a good organization can make ISK more easily than pretty much anybody else, and I don't know many seasoned null dwellers that only keep a single character. Most, if not all, have an army of alts.
I was busting your chops with my first reply, you do have a point about the refining.
And your point about null dwellers is something we agree on. They have the best access to ISK. So do they need BETTER refining? They don't. I agree that they should have 100% refining ability in sov space. But an advantage over high sec just makes the mentality of null vs. high that is currently at work in this game even worse. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
483
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 21:59:00 -
[514] - Quote
Anhenka wrote: TLDR: Miners and indy guys are not needed.
You're right, which is why I figured this reprocessing change to be something of a stealth encouragement to make them more needed than they are now by making it harder to get large volumes of equipment with relatively little work (ie, mineral compression nerf). My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3105
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:00:00 -
[515] - Quote
mkint wrote:That data is right there in the dev blog, and it just takes arithmetic. Goons have been gloating all morning. Is anyone really surprised? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3738
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:00:00 -
[516] - Quote
Vanessa Vansen wrote:At least the reprocessing implant (slot 8) does not compete with the already competing ore mining and ice harvesting implants (slot 10).
The numbers ... consider this? Station Equipment 50% Refining 5 Refining Efficiency 5 Ore Processing 4 No implant
This is provides access to T2 crystals, i.e. maximal mining and a perfect refining rate (given the standing).
Current refinement: Station Equipment + 0.375 x (1 + Refining skill x 0.02) x (1 + Refining Efficiency skill x 0.04) x (1 + Ore Processing skill x 0.05) .5 + 0.375 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 1.094
New refinement: Station Equipment x (1 + Refining skill x 0.03) x (1 + Refining Efficiency skill x 0.02) x (1 + Ore Processing skill x 0.02) ) .5*1.15*1.1*1.08=0.6831
Basically that's 31.69% less than before. With the adjustment (* 1.381) you end up with 94.3%
That is the income of quite decent miners will drop by 5.7% ... How would you feel if your boss would tell you that he is going to cut your wage by that amount?
I'm quite glad I stopped mining!
A 5.7% reduction in minerals harvested does not mean you'll earn less isk/hr (which is the standard metric used for determining the income of a profession). Furthermore, the value of Ore will increase, as compressed Ore becomes the most efficient means to haul minerals about.
Overall, the value of minerals will change with this patch, and it is hard to predict exactly how that will alter the income of miners. In the end, this is a boost to miners though, as they are certain to benefit from either increased ore prices or increased mineral prices. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6706
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:00:00 -
[517] - Quote
mkint wrote: I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about people. I'm talking about what it is they want out of the game, what their ambitions are.
The odd thing is, you in particular, and your alliance in general, are being the noisiest and least clever supporters of this change. No arguments, just noise. Noise does not make you right. You probably see as clearly as I do how this benefits the nullsec alliances.
This change will lead even further to nullsec stagnation. This change is bad for the game.
the arguments are laid out clearly in the devblog and the many things we've posted before on this subject
we don't need new arguments. if you had any we'd rebut them but all you have is screeching and rending of garments and generally hilarious mistakes about how the game works, so we can just point and laugh Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
330
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:00:00 -
[518] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:And they already have those benefits. I have produced a huge amount of stuff in null sec so hump someone else's leg.
Industry out there doesn't need a buff beyond maybe making low grade minerals more available. If you can't make things out there then you are just lazy and no amount of CCP changes will change that. Awww... insults and uncivil behaviour. You seem angry.
It's not a question of whether or not you can build in null (cuz you definitely can), it's whether or not it is smart to. Right now it's not. Hi-sec has better facilities, more customers, and is infinitely safer. Logistically it's better to buy your stuff in hi-sec and jump it out to null, so that way every person in your alliance is combat-capable defender of your space instead of miner or builder (ideally). And actually null-sec does have every mineral you need in abundant quantities EXCEPT for Mexallon (still have no idea why CCP insists on that bottleneck). Fix that and they'd be another step closer to Industry being worthwhile in Null.
Quite simply the people that put in the time, effort, and teamwork to claim and build up a section of space should have the advantage over the hi-sec pubbies who just leech off the empire teat. Null-sec players are the ones risking their assets. They are the ones who have to deal with the stupid childish politics. And they are the ones who have to actively defend their space from aggressors.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6706
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:01:00 -
[519] - Quote
no miner anywhere in highsec who has three braincells to rub together and can comprehend the tiny change to his routine to profit off this expansion loses a penny of income
needless to say we have a lot of miners who don't fit that bill in this thread Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20171
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:02:00 -
[520] - Quote
Vanessa Vansen wrote:Basically that's 31.69% less than before. With the adjustment (* 1.381) you end up with 94.3%
That is the income of quite decent miners will drop by 5.7% ... So you're saying that the skills and implants are actually meaningful now? Excellent.
mkint wrote:You're usually good with the market stuff. Didn't you read the dev blog? It says very very explicitly, that an absolutely maxed out (someone else did the math that it's 200 days worth of skills, i.e., nearly equivalent to a titan parking alt) would STILL have a lower refining yield than now. GǪif you're refining scrap metal, which you shouldn't be doing in highsec anyway. For everything else, you can either outsource it for more cash or just do things better and faster in high now than you could before.
Quote:This change is yet another wealth redistribution. It gives (yes, gives, because it's a freebie, result of CSM politics) nullsec alliances a 60% or so economic advantage in anything that's made out of minerals Close. It gives null a handy advantage for anything made out of junk (and is sitll far lower than it used to be). For everything else, highsec will still be the source of the minerals. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
204
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:04:00 -
[521] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vanessa Vansen wrote:Basically that's 31.69% less than before. With the adjustment (* 1.381) you end up with 94.3%
That is the income of quite decent miners will drop by 5.7% ... So you're saying that the skills and implants are actually meaningful now? Excellent. mkint wrote:You're usually good with the market stuff. Didn't you read the dev blog? It says very very explicitly, that an absolutely maxed out (someone else did the math that it's 200 days worth of skills, i.e., nearly equivalent to a titan parking alt) would STILL have a lower refining yield than now. GǪif you're refining scrap metal, which you shouldn't be doing in highsec anyway. For everything else, you can either outsource it for more cash or just do things better and faster in high now than you could before. Quote:This change is yet another wealth redistribution. It gives (yes, gives, because it's a freebie, result of CSM politics) nullsec alliances a 60% or so economic advantage in anything that's made out of minerals Close. It gives null a handy advantage for anything made out of junk (and is sitll far lower than it used to be). For everything else, highsec will still be the source of the minerals. Scrapmetal refines are identical yield in every outpost and every 50% station in empire and NPC nullsec. Conquerable nullsec does not have an advantage. Outpost refine bonuses from upgrades specifically exclude scrapmetal. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:04:00 -
[522] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Close. It gives null a handy advantage for anything made out of junk (and is sitll far lower than it used to be). For everything else, highsec will still be the source of the minerals. null has no scrapmetal bonus: everyone refines scrap the same Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1876
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:05:00 -
[523] - Quote
Looking forward to the summer expansion! |
mkint
1074
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:05:00 -
[524] - Quote
Querns wrote:mkint wrote:Weaselior wrote:mkint wrote:There are no changes that can possibly be made to the game to bring industrialists to nullsec, because there will always be an us vs them. A budding industrialist who wants to move to nullsec has no place in an existing alliance there, because what he really wants is power. And power is horded in nullsec. It's what the entire meta game is about. It's what having CSM voting blocs is about. And it's a closed game to anyone who's not already a part of it. i'd just like to laugh again at the idea that if you want power what you should be is a highsec industrialist I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about people. I'm talking about what it is they want out of the game, what their ambitions are. The odd thing is, you in particular, and your alliance in general, are being the noisiest and least clever supporters of this change. No arguments, just noise. Noise does not make you right. You probably see as clearly as I do how this benefits the nullsec alliances. This change will lead even further to nullsec stagnation. This change is bad for the game. Man, I really should get into the "Jump to Conclusions" mat business. I'd be raking it in here in this thread. Also, duh, this benefits nullsec. You're not revealing some great hidden truth here. Of course this benefits nullsec. But it affects nullsec more than the dev blog directly states. Mineral prices skyrocket while ore prices drop, regardless of what happens in nullsec. But nullbears get to profit on it coming AND going. But arguing with a goon is pointless. You guys are just better at making lots of noise than anyone else, except for maybe the average two-year-old. Good job. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:08:00 -
[525] - Quote
someone explain to me the gaping [insert logic here] in mkint's thinking on how this increases mineral prices while decreasing ore
does he think the margin for buying ore off 4-4, refining it, and relisting the mins will be huge despite the fact a single guy in jita can handle all of highsec's refining if that gap opens up Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Melek D'Ivri
Propst Mining Services
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:09:00 -
[526] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: So let me get this straight. Joe high sec mission runner, who is currently getting 100% refine on modules, will now have to have a hugely expensive implant, plus weeks of skills, to achieve a 27.6% nerf in his mission loot income.
So what null sec cartel corp do you have your alt in?
i don't think you grasped how scrapmetal works in the current system, implants don't affect it and you're getting 55% of what you get now at most (only scrapmetal processing, which is now 2% affects scrapmetal, nothing else, so 50% *1.10=55%)
Both Refining and Refinery Efficiency affect modules reprocessing pre-nerf. As well as Implants. You can use an implant and skip Scrapmetal Processing currently, so yes, if you have Scrapmetal Processing and Implant is useless, but only then. You can currently get 100% yield on an item VERY easily with Standings (just need about 3 weeks of training instead of 6) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20171
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:10:00 -
[527] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Tippia wrote:Close. It gives null a handy advantage for anything made out of junk (and is sitll far lower than it used to be). For everything else, highsec will still be the source of the minerals. null has no scrapmetal bonus: everyone refines scrap the same I stand corrected. I was somehow thinking in terms of GÇ£compared to oldGÇ¥ instead of GÇ£compared to highGÇ¥. So null doesn't even have that advantage. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:11:00 -
[528] - Quote
Melek D'Ivri wrote:Weaselior wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: So let me get this straight. Joe high sec mission runner, who is currently getting 100% refine on modules, will now have to have a hugely expensive implant, plus weeks of skills, to achieve a 27.6% nerf in his mission loot income.
So what null sec cartel corp do you have your alt in?
i don't think you grasped how scrapmetal works in the current system, implants don't affect it and you're getting 55% of what you get now at most (only scrapmetal processing, which is now 2% affects scrapmetal, nothing else, so 50% *1.10=55%) Both Refining and Refinery Efficiency affect modules reprocessing pre-nerf. As well as Implants. You can use an implant and skip Scrapmetal Processing currently, so yes, if you have Scrapmetal Processing and Implant is useless, but only then. You can currently get 100% yield on an item VERY easily with Standings (just need about 3 weeks of training instead of 6) i was unclear, i meant in the system in the devblog, which works how I said it does Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Scyllyn
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:13:00 -
[529] - Quote
The real reason that people don't mine/produce transportable stuff in Null?
The fact that Nullsec dwellers consider "Indy Jews" to be worse that second class citizens and actively force anyone who does not pewpew 99.9% of the time out of their alliance's by either declaring a "safari" on industrialist (where any player can be attacked by blue "allies" with no warning and no repercussions on the aggressor) or hiring/'playing characters who are not blue to cloaky camp systems or attack allies.
Industry outside Empire is hard enough without being disrespected and attacked by the very people who you are trying to supply ships and modules to.
Want more people to come to Null? Then stop treating people who don't play this game exactly the same way you do like ****, After all, there is not enough rewards in the world let alone this game to compensate the average industrialist for all the hostility, abuse and hassle inflicted on them by elitist PVP a***oles. |
mkint
1074
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:16:00 -
[530] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:someone explain to me the gaping [insert logic here] in mkint's thinking on how this increases mineral prices while decreasing ore
does he think the margin for buying ore off 4-4, refining it, and relisting the mins will be huge despite the fact a single guy in jita can handle all of highsec's refining if that gap opens up You really expect all refining to happen by 1 person from now on? Can we all sit down and think about what this goon is saying? From now on, EVE will only have 1 refiner everybody. We can all call it a day. Problem solved. All hail our goon overlords, come with healing in their hearts and joyous news on their tongues. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20171
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:18:00 -
[531] - Quote
Scyllyn wrote:The real reason that people don't mine/produce transportable stuff in Null?
The fact that Nullsec dwellers consider "Indy Jews" to be worse that second class citizens and actively force anyone who does not pewpew 99.9% of the time out of their alliance's by either declaring a "safari" on industrialist (where any player can be attacked by blue "allies" with no warning and no repercussions on the aggressor) or hiring/'playing characters who are not blue to cloaky camp systems or attack allies. So you're not subscribing to this whole blue donut nonsense then? That's a good start I supposeGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:18:00 -
[532] - Quote
mkint wrote:Weaselior wrote:someone explain to me the gaping [insert logic here] in mkint's thinking on how this increases mineral prices while decreasing ore
does he think the margin for buying ore off 4-4, refining it, and relisting the mins will be huge despite the fact a single guy in jita can handle all of highsec's refining if that gap opens up You really expect all refining to happen by 1 person from now on? Can we all sit down and think about what this goon is saying? From now on, EVE will only have 1 refiner everybody. We can all call it a day. Problem solved. All hail our goon overlords, come with healing in their hearts and joyous news on their tongues. nope, but i'm not surprised with reading comprehension skills and critical thinking skills like this you think this is a bad change
i will give you a few more breadcrumbs: if a single guy can pocket effort-free profits doing this, what's going to happen to the profit margins when guys two through two thousand try to get in on it Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Scyllyn
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:26:00 -
[533] - Quote
Querns wrote:Scyllyn wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:Do all the people in empire not realize that 78.2% refine after patch will be the same 100% refine they are currently getting? Empire isn't getting nerfed null is getting a slight buff. Empire is not getting nerfed? True IF You have PERFECT Refining Skills AND PERFECT Standings AND the 4% Refining Implant So an industry player will have to train Reprocessing to 5, Reprocessing Efficiency to 5 and waste a clone to have the 4% implant (which requires Cybernetics 5 to plug-in BTW) ......... OHHH AND grind missions for XYZ months after training Social to 5 and all the skills required to run missions just to get a 1.2% "buff" I thought CCP was trying to attract more people to this game..... How is a maximum refining yield of 72.4% supposed to be attractive to anyone let alone a beginner? Especially when it will now take months if not years of skill training and mission grinding to be able to get "decent" yield in 1 npc corporations stations. I also notice the true minimum yield was never stated as the lowest yield quoted was for a character with Reprocessing 5 Reprocessing Efficiency 1 and PERFECT Standings...... "Perfect standings" means 6.67 corporation standings, the minimum required to reduce the "WE TAKE" portion of reprocessing to 0.00%. You can knock that out pretty quick with data center turnins and a cosmos blitz.
Yeah I know standings can be gained quickly with enough isk and enough points in combat orientated skills and Cybernetics 5 but lets face it we ALL live in a world where in the largest MMO on earth (yes World of Warcraft) a brand new player can be max level and have a full set of "epic" gear if not 2 full sets in less than a week. Ask yourself would you rather play a game where you can be enjoying "end game" content in less than a fortnight or a game where it takes almost 8 months just to be able to melt rocks properly? While your at it ask yourself if you would rather have a character with "perfect" refining or a character that can hold its own in a Capital ship be it a dreadnought or a carrier......... |
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:28:00 -
[534] - Quote
How about giving low sec and npc null sec some much needed love as you suggested in the Blog ytterbium. I assume you are referring the POS changes being the buff to low sec, even though it will still be much easier to use the POS in high sec.
Increase the base reprocessing rate of stations in low sec and npc null sec to 55%. |
Vanguarder
The Wakizashi
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:29:00 -
[535] - Quote
This seems like a form of social engineering.
With all the various ancient bugs and broken functions.... spend your time doing this?
It is my opinion, you will please the top 15% of industrial types, and a lot of the remaining 85% will move on to something else.
Again, CCP wants people to join the big alliances or quit playing.
There is an invisible ceiling in the game.
Solo players or small corps simply can not function when everything becomes so specialized. I'll not pay for alts just to make more use of my one character.
Face it, the same old problem, that of 0.4 might as well be on the otherside of the moon. You need to live in low sec or null to learn the skills needed to survive in low sec or null.
So either you join a huge mega-alliance or you only play the small part of the game that is called Empire.
Are you at CCP sure you all arn't forgetting this is a game we play for fun? Its not real.... you know that, right? |
Krom Thomson
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:30:00 -
[536] - Quote
mkint wrote:Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Right, so this announcement is not a net nerf to high sec? No, it buffs it pretty significantly, bringing faster and better abilities than it ever had before. You're usually good with the market stuff. Didn't you read the dev blog? It says very very explicitly, that an absolutely maxed out (someone else did the math that it's 200 days worth of skills, i.e., nearly equivalent to a titan parking alt) would STILL have a lower refining yield than now. The dev blog also listed a more normal loss amount as well, at a 30% nerf to all empire refining. Not to mention the unapologetic PVE nerf. This change is yet another wealth redistribution. It gives (yes, gives, because it's a freebie, result of CSM politics) nullsec alliances a 60% or so economic advantage in anything that's made out of minerals (i.e. those super caps they use to hang onto their sov, and oh by the way get even better mineral compression than ever to help build.) That data is right there in the dev blog, and it just takes arithmetic.
hmm titan perfect refining .. titan perfect refining now tell me what would you pick? |
mkint
1075
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:30:00 -
[537] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:mkint wrote:Weaselior wrote:someone explain to me the gaping [insert logic here] in mkint's thinking on how this increases mineral prices while decreasing ore
does he think the margin for buying ore off 4-4, refining it, and relisting the mins will be huge despite the fact a single guy in jita can handle all of highsec's refining if that gap opens up You really expect all refining to happen by 1 person from now on? Can we all sit down and think about what this goon is saying? From now on, EVE will only have 1 refiner everybody. We can all call it a day. Problem solved. All hail our goon overlords, come with healing in their hearts and joyous news on their tongues. nope, but i'm not surprised with reading comprehension skills and critical thinking skills like this you think this is a bad change i will give you a few more breadcrumbs: if a single guy can pocket effort-free profits doing this, what's going to happen to the profit margins when guys two through two thousand try to get in on it And all it'll take is the skillpoints of a titan pilot. Thank goodness that's a normal state of affairs! Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2914
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:32:00 -
[538] - Quote
If there's a decent margin in it, I'd certainly take up refining ore for profit.
Around 30 days from now, I'd have all the highsec ores at 5 for perfect refine. I already have the standing for perfect refine. So that's an implant, at around 300 million or so (ignoring the current markup on it, since the devblog came out)
Any decent corporation would take care of refining for its members. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Lucy Riraille
Aliastra Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 22:34:00 -
[539] - Quote
Dear DEVS,
work on something more useful! This is just another NERF!!! For miners and missionrunners. It was YOUR skillsystem that gave max refining yield with oreprocessing IV instead of V. I bet the refining implant needed will have moonprizes and will be a slot 10 imp, so that either one can mine perfectly or refine perfectly.
The rorqual compresseion rate was messed up by YOU DEVS, it is not the players fault that building other modules or ammo will result in better "mineral compression rate". This could have been fixed xears ago.
Why not implementing a refining array for POS that is worth it's name?
Do you really think people will mine in lowsec, if hisec stations were refining yield wise disadvantaged? BS! NO!
If Moon Minerals or its products could be gotten frome refining modules that reuire them in the production line, this would be great.
But as afar as you described it, this is just another income nerf.
When MTUs were released every single missionrunner used them, so the loot rate got a helluva nerf in order to "stabilize" named item prizes.
As there aren't more players around who salvage the wrecks too (in compatison to all those who loot the wrecks), salvage mat prizes remained somewhat stable. Now, I used to get about 30M ISK loot and salvage from a lv4 Scarlet and about as much from a lv4 Damsel, now the rate is more like 16M far under 20M in any case. Interestingly enough, the worth of the salvage remained the same but it now takes a far bigger part in the overall loot/salvage income than before.
Now this is a result of giving players from day one, without skill or effort a "loot collecting autobot". Anyone can do it, anyone does it, inflation or a huge nerf of drop rates are the consequences.
Now, regarding refining, you are going the complete opposite way, which is bad as well!
Most rorquals are deployed in Nullsec, far less in low and very few in wh space. WH space is THE PLACE where better refining or compression methods are bitterly needed. Althoug most ores can be found in w-space, most of the ore sites despwan without being mined. Why? because no one has enough space in a pos to store large volumes and transport logistics are another issue. Refining those ores at a pos is just wasting time and effort. POS owner have asked for a cure for that for years, as well as rational POS access right management, but that would improve the gameplay experience and mean more fun, so noa chance for us players getting that in the near future.
Not long ago, a survey regarding S&I was handed out to us, but I haven't read of any plans to improve the ****** BPO/ARRAY UI!!! EVEMon is capable of showing my all my assets even when stored in containers, "Alt+T" isn't. SHAME!
There is no way to export corporation wallet data other then by API. How can Corporations calculate their POCO TAX income? By hand....
There are so many things the desperately need fixing, ore refining is not one of them
Compression rates and compression bpc as well as building stuff in order to reprocess it instead of compressing minerals or ore needs overhauling!
Oh and ships not warping, but idlin |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6707
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Posted - 2014.03.20 22:37:00 -
[540] - Quote
mkint wrote: And all it'll take is the skillpoints of a titan pilot. Thank goodness that's a normal state of affairs!
yeah uh no, that's not how many skillpoints it would take
a titan is two years of training
the 200 days was me, and much of that is highend ores, you can bust out all highsec ores easily by patch day, and that also included ampV because i was inattentive to my skillplan (whoops)
since i am an overman and live in null i may have need of highend refining as well so i'll do that but someone with zero refining skills can become a perfect veldspar refiner in under 30d then its about 5 days max for each additional highsec ore, so the people scrabbling in the dirt in highsec don't have that sort of training time
but yes, people more skilled than you should get more rewards but it takes like three guys with the skills in jita to drive profits down to minimal levels Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
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