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Private Bank
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Private Bank on 15/02/2009 23:10:50 Ok. This is the "question of life" for me. (i have asked before but did not really get the answer) I'm a 3 mio sp pilot. going to train for a bs. But i need help. I'm going to be 100% pvp.
Should i just stay at minmatar? Im going to create an alt later training for carrier (Gallente) but the BS and Dread i want on this char.
So should i train for a new race? or just keep on mini and train for the amazing typhoon (heard a lot of good stuff about that one), and later (much later) get an naglefar.
or should i go to gallente bs/dread or amarr bs/dread. (will cost me many days sp training :S)
What would you do? need some help. also asked on battleclinic but im still twisted in this question >.<
Thanks.
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Sarkiss
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:13:00 -
[2]
Dreads are boring as **** to fly, same with most capitals.
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:13:00 -
[3]
It's up to you. I've heard the Naglfar is a crappy dread but it's by far the most sexy. And let's be frank, it's an internet spaceship game. Sex appeal matters.
Doesn't matter what you choose, really, just pick one you like and learn to make it work.
............. Starbreaker Frigateers - life on the edge |
bettybettybettybetty
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:15:00 -
[4]
The typhoon is awful, if you REALLY want good ships that are battleship size and up go anything but minmatar.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:20:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 15/02/2009 23:20:16
Originally by: bettybettybettybetty The typhoon is awful, if you REALLY want good ships that are battleship size and up go anything but minmatar.
Maelstrom is pretty decent, phoon as well. They are very skill intensive tho.
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Cpt Constantinus
Celestial Janissaries
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:27:00 -
[6]
Well, the Naglfar might be the weakest dread atm but it still does its job. Seriously, when you are in a fleet with 50 other dreads who cares about your slightly lower dps/effective hitpoints? It wont matter much. Regarding the Minmatar battleships, i have heard some good things about the Phoon and the Maelstrome and i think that the Tempest is still an acceptable fleetsniper. So yea, Minmatar battleships might be somewhat mediocre but they can still do their job.
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bettybettybettybetty
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 15/02/2009 23:20:16
Originally by: bettybettybettybetty The typhoon is awful, if you REALLY want good ships that are battleship size and up go anything but minmatar.
Maelstrom is pretty decent, phoon as well. They are very skill intensive tho.
The maelstrom is a awesome mission runner and can be pretty cool in pvp sometimes, the typhoon is terribad until you have over a year in skill training when it actually becomes pretty good, but even then i wouldn't train that long for it.
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Thats Mining
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:29:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Thats Mining on 15/02/2009 23:29:51 Edited by: Thats Mining on 15/02/2009 23:29:34
Originally by: bettybettybettybetty The typhoon is awful, if you REALLY want good ships that are battleship size and up go anything but minmatar.
why is the typhoon awfull? many says it owns?
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Dake Darkstalker
Locus Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:32:00 -
[9]
At 3m SP you got about 12m more SP before you even have to worry about what BS you are going to fly in PVP that's if you want to be able to fly it well. That's about a year of training give or take. In that time there will be 2 more expansions along with the balancing that goes with them so no one can really say what BS will be the most effective in a year. Hence just stick with Minny they have effective ships to fly while you are working up your skills. In the end if you get to the point you are going to be training t2 large weapons and Minny BS suck then its not really a big hurdle to cross train to another race. If you can fly a minny BS well you can fly most other BS well.
Right now Minny BS are the worse in EFT stats but there are still plenty of people that are kickin ass in them despite that. You just cant fly them in the Approach f1-f8 manner. Stick with a single race as long as you can stand. YOu will be better off in a lesser ship that you are very well skilled for than a being able to fly 2 different races ships with skills split all over.
Dake Darkstalker Locus Industries Amarr Militia Death Wish Solo PvP
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bettybettybettybetty
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Thats Mining Edited by: Thats Mining on 15/02/2009 23:29:51 Edited by: Thats Mining on 15/02/2009 23:29:34
Originally by: bettybettybettybetty The typhoon is awful, if you REALLY want good ships that are battleship size and up go anything but minmatar.
why is the typhoon awfull? many says it owns?
Pluses - cheap - nice tank
Minuses - skill intensive - bad fitting - nice tank goes out the window if you want decent dps - dps goes out the window if you want the nice tank - split weapons
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.16 01:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dake Darkstalker At 3m SP you got about 12m more SP before you even have to worry about what BS you are going to fly in PVP that's if you want to be able to fly it well. That's about a year of training give or take. In that time there will be 2 more expansions along with the balancing that goes with them so no one can really say what BS will be the most effective in a year. Hence just stick with Minny they have effective ships to fly while you are working up your skills. In the end if you get to the point you are going to be training t2 large weapons and Minny BS suck then its not really a big hurdle to cross train to another race. If you can fly a minny BS well you can fly most other BS well.
Right now Minny BS are the worse in EFT stats but there are still plenty of people that are kickin ass in them despite that. You just cant fly them in the Approach f1-f8 manner. Stick with a single race as long as you can stand. YOu will be better off in a lesser ship that you are very well skilled for than a being able to fly 2 different races ships with skills split all over.
You do NOT need 15million SP to fly a BS well. Hell fully tech II fitting it will only run you about 3-4million SP (maybe a bit more for the phoon's split weapons but meh) and even that's not needed to be effective with the ship. Be sure to get the mentality of "If I can't fly it with all skills at lvl 5 I shouldn't fly it at all"
Yes someone with perfect skills to fly a ship will do better in it then you do, but in pvp actual pilot experience means so much more then skillpoints it's in your best interest to fly ships as soon as you can afford to lose them and at least half-decently fit them out.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.02.16 01:31:00 -
[12]
The Tempest is a great ship, sure it may not be FOTM and take a few more braincells to fly than a plated Abaddon but it's actually better than a great deal of other ships out there. It's one of those ships that can be used for pretty much everything, solo, small gang, fleet, ratting and missioning.
The Phoon is decent but only really so because of its pricetag, much like the Abaddon. Compared to the Dominix both just wither away.
As for capitals, nomatter which capital you have you'll be a big asset. In the long run it's a marginal difference at best, even though Minmatar capitals are a bit on the weak side.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2009.02.16 02:10:00 -
[13]
The Typhoon is where its at with good skills, certainly the best close range tier 1 BS and the most versatile of the bunch.
Maelstrom does a really good job at active shield tanking applying DPS and Tempest is certainly workable. If you like flying Minmatar ships, by all means train their dread and BSes and you'll still be competitive. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.02.16 04:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Thats Mining Edited by: Thats Mining on 15/02/2009 23:29:51 Edited by: Thats Mining on 15/02/2009 23:29:34
Originally by: bettybettybettybetty The typhoon is awful, if you REALLY want good ships that are battleship size and up go anything but minmatar.
why is the typhoon awfull? many says it owns?
The typhoons damage is split between its 175m3 dronebay, 4 gunpoints and 4 missile points. There is no natural strength to focus on so at most times it's just a Raven/Tempest with 2 fewer launchers/turrets. It also lacks the "magic" 4th mid, its slotting says armortanker but its shield/armor ratio says shieldtanker and its minmatar origin (low mass, high top speed but substandard grid/cpu/armor/plating/Sensor Strength) says "I don't tank very well at all!"
If you put it all together it means that to use the Typhoon to anywhere near its full potential you need maxed out heavy drone skills (4-5 mil at least!), maxed out gunnery skills (another 6 mil), maxed out cruise/torpedo skills (4 mil), maxed out fitting skills (3 mil?), maxed our armor skills (unknown), maxed out shield skills (unknown), maxed out Minmatar BS...
Max the typhoon out and you got a battleship that is fast, maneuverable and can deal a decent amount of damage. But that takes a while. This character is fairly old (40-ish mil skillpoints), and I'm not at the point where I can say that I've taken all of these areas to the point where I could say (if I flew minmatar instead of Amarr) "I've got the skills to fly the Typhoon to near its maximum potential". As an amarrian I could at least skip most missile skills and most shield skills. Typhoons don't have that luxury.
P.S: Also, many battleship pilots tend to forget their positioning skills just because they don't provide such an obvious advantage as they do in interceptors or cruisersized vessels. A part of using the typhoon well is remembering that you're much faster than anything that can rival you in a slugging match. Well, except the Machariel, but you meet machariels perhaps once in a blue moon. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Jesslyn Daggererux
Gallente SRIUS BISNIS
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Posted - 2009.02.16 05:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Dake Darkstalker At 3m SP you got about 12m more SP before you even have to worry about what BS you are going to fly in PVP that's if you want to be able to fly it well. That's about a year of training give or take. In that time there will be 2 more expansions along with the balancing that goes with them so no one can really say what BS will be the most effective in a year. Hence just stick with Minny they have effective ships to fly while you are working up your skills. In the end if you get to the point you are going to be training t2 large weapons and Minny BS suck then its not really a big hurdle to cross train to another race. If you can fly a minny BS well you can fly most other BS well.
Right now Minny BS are the worse in EFT stats but there are still plenty of people that are kickin ass in them despite that. You just cant fly them in the Approach f1-f8 manner. Stick with a single race as long as you can stand. YOu will be better off in a lesser ship that you are very well skilled for than a being able to fly 2 different races ships with skills split all over.
You do NOT need 15million SP to fly a BS well. Hell fully tech II fitting it will only run you about 3-4million SP (maybe a bit more for the phoon's split weapons but meh) and even that's not needed to be effective with the ship. Be sure to get the mentality of "If I can't fly it with all skills at lvl 5 I shouldn't fly it at all"
Yes someone with perfect skills to fly a ship will do better in it then you do, but in pvp actual pilot experience means so much more then skillpoints it's in your best interest to fly ships as soon as you can afford to lose them and at least half-decently fit them out.
im gallente and actually i think he is dead on. and this is comming from a career pvp'er. im at 14.3m right now, and only now after nearly a year am i finally getting ready to fly a BS seriously. for the past few months i would, only on station though with a passive tank. t2 guns and decent BS skill may only take you 3-4m as you said, but what about support skills. 5 arent needed, but 4 is if you are to compete with other people. i only have bs 4 right now and no t2 guns, and finishing t2 heavy drones in a week. all this time i chose instead to have fun with t2 cruiser hulls. the ishtar is a blast, the phobos is fun. im in no rush to lose BSs in combat.
------------------------- I do not have a signature |
Psiri
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Posted - 2009.02.16 05:38:00 -
[16]
Regarding the Phoon again, I can't help but to feel that it has been a bit cheated with its RoF bonus, which in effect only is a single bonus and not two.
Its weaponsystems aren't that hot currently either, AC's are decent but Torps are pretty mweh - especially on a ship with only 4 mids, having to make serious sacrifices to fit a target painter.
Sure it's fairly quick, then again it needs to be because its Torp range is apalling.
I guess the point is that it's faster than a Megathron, can do comparable damage, fit a sturdier tank and won't have the same tracking issues. Sure, the Mega is way past its former glory days but with the the Phoon having a mere 50mil pricetag you can't complain.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.16 06:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Cambarus on 16/02/2009 06:58:59
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux
im gallente and actually i think he is dead on. and this is comming from a career pvp'er. im at 14.3m right now, and only now after nearly a year am i finally getting ready to fly a BS seriously. for the past few months i would, only on station though with a passive tank. t2 guns and decent BS skill may only take you 3-4m as you said, but what about support skills. 5 arent needed, but 4 is if you are to compete with other people. i only have bs 4 right now and no t2 guns, and finishing t2 heavy drones in a week. all this time i chose instead to have fun with t2 cruiser hulls. the ishtar is a blast, the phobos is fun. im in no rush to lose BSs in combat.
1)Remove all the skills you have that relate only to tech II cruisers, frigates etc, because they have no bearing on your battleship skills.
2)I have an alt, admittedly a PVE alt, who flies a dominix. She can use tech II everything except sentries (which I don't like using). And should I choose to use her in pvp she would be able to fit fully t2, top to bottom, as well as having all relevant support skills at IV. She has under 5 million SP, and I would pit her in a fight against your 15mil SP domi any day, because of the amount of experience I have flying one because I didn't wait until 10+ million SP to get into it.
You don't get good with a ship by waiting until you have every skill maxed out to fly it, you get good in a ship by flying it, and by losing it. Every time you die in eve, you learn one more thing not to do next time, and that knowledge is what will make all the difference in how well you do in this game, regardless of which aspect of it you go for. |
TimMc
Gallente Extradition
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Posted - 2009.02.16 10:23:00 -
[18]
Most fun ships in the game are sub-BS, and minmatar got good ones.
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Talen Kross
T Miners
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Posted - 2009.02.16 10:42:00 -
[19]
The phoon is a fantastic ship, the best matar BS ship for solo or small gang work.
Originally by: "Desi"
Originally by: "spiralJunkie" if Vegeta is going, only I can beat him
You will need to spend atleast 6 episodes powering up before you do that.
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ry ry
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Posted - 2009.02.16 11:23:00 -
[20]
most of the skills needed to make a phoon good will also make a whole range of ships ship more useful - shield management or tactical shield manipulation 5 will help out any shield tanked ship you fly, drone interfacing V will make /all/ your drones do more damage. etc.
minmatar have a weird mix of shiptypes, but since everybody eventually cross-trains it's no hardship to be able to use another race's ships effectively with minimal time spent training a new subsystem as a by-product.
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar Shut Up And Play
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Posted - 2009.02.16 11:28:00 -
[21]
minmitar are very rewarding, there also very sp intensive, the phoon needs good missile guns and drones skills for it to even be competetive. the tempest is probably the least sp of their bs's but its also very fun too fly.
minmitar bs's are underated, id say stick to it, also caldari bs's are very good these days (blaster rokh,torp raven- anyone disagrees with the raven being good just wait till you see one do 800 dps from 60 km)
so id say cross train to caldari if anything as missiles are very low sp intensive and you can use the shield skills on the maelstrom.
and the maelstrom is so awesome, it gets even better when you can afford to fly with a crystal set strong blu pill and faction meds :)
as for carriers get an archon not a thanny it sucks, nidhoggur is a great remote repper but thats about it,
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar Shut Up And Play
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Posted - 2009.02.16 11:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: arbiter reformed minmitar are very rewarding, there also very sp intensive, the phoon needs good missile guns and drones skills for it to even be competetive. the tempest is probably the least sp of their bs's but its also very fun too fly.
minmitar bs's are underated, id say stick to it, also caldari bs's are very good these days (blaster rokh,torp raven- anyone disagrees with the raven being good just wait till you see one do 800 dps from 60 km)
so id say cross train to caldari if anything as missiles are very low sp intensive and you can use the shield skills on the maelstrom.
and the maelstrom is so awesome, it gets even better when you can afford to fly with a crystal set strong blu pill and faction meds :)
as for carriers get an archon not a thanny it sucks, nidhoggur is a great remote repper but thats about it,
oh and as for the naglfar i t s
f u c k i n g
v e r t i c a l
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Thats Mining
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Posted - 2009.02.16 12:57:00 -
[23]
well im armor tanker so maelstrom is not me.
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Snow Banshee
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.16 15:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Dake Darkstalker At 3m SP you got about 12m more SP before you even have to worry about what BS you are going to fly in PVP that's if you want to be able to fly it well. That's about a year of training give or take. In that time there will be 2 more expansions along with the balancing that goes with them so no one can really say what BS will be the most effective in a year. Hence just stick with Minny they have effective ships to fly while you are working up your skills. In the end if you get to the point you are going to be training t2 large weapons and Minny BS suck then its not really a big hurdle to cross train to another race. If you can fly a minny BS well you can fly most other BS well.
Right now Minny BS are the worse in EFT stats but there are still plenty of people that are kickin ass in them despite that. You just cant fly them in the Approach f1-f8 manner. Stick with a single race as long as you can stand. YOu will be better off in a lesser ship that you are very well skilled for than a being able to fly 2 different races ships with skills split all over.
You do NOT need 15million SP to fly a BS well. Hell fully tech II fitting it will only run you about 3-4million SP (maybe a bit more for the phoon's split weapons but meh) and even that's not needed to be effective with the ship. Be sure to get the mentality of "If I can't fly it with all skills at lvl 5 I shouldn't fly it at all"
Yes someone with perfect skills to fly a ship will do better in it then you do, but in pvp actual pilot experience means so much more then skillpoints it's in your best interest to fly ships as soon as you can afford to lose them and at least half-decently fit them out.
on contrary, you need AT leat 15M t fly well a bs. People always forget how much are important the core skills. Any semi-decent capsulee should maximize cap skills, and tanking skills ( shield or mechanic), you should also have good weapon skills and that include all skills of the section, not just the one that allow you to fit the gun. you need good tracking skills and good navigation skills, and i have still not even mentioned the BS skill or drone skills ( any bs can fit 5 heavies .. its a waste dont be able to use them).
everyone are free to train directly just for bs lev 1 and buy one if they dont mind to fit civilian guns, but this does not indicate that you can drive them good.
noobs tend to go directly to the bigger ships simply because they think they are better. Experienced pilot should advice them that is even more important for a nob train learning skills and core skills else they will never be able to tly decently ANY ship , not just a BS. Once they are decent at those skills they can train what they wish more.
Keep in mind that im not telling you need bs5 and large t2 specialization 4 ( or more). Im telling that is you chech all the core skill necesary to fly decently a ship you will just with them double (or even more) the skilpoint he have right now, not even mentioning bs skills or large spec skills.
imho he should have fun with smaller ships and focus to core skills before to go specific.
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Private Bank
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Posted - 2009.02.16 15:47:00 -
[25]
well as it seems right now im ready to drop minmatar 100% and go to gallente :/ i have all in all 500 000 SP in minmatar skills (minmatar ships/turrets) and it would not take me more than 10-15 days to gain again. so im thinking a lot on that.
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Rheed
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.16 16:53:00 -
[26]
re-visit Minmatar BS's once you reach at least 12mil SP.
The Minmatar PVP plan:
Skill up frigs till you can T2 fit them all, then Skill up cruisers till you can T2 fit them all.
Same with Battlecruisers. Once you max Frigs, Cruisers and Battlecruisers, turn your attention to the Assult Frig/Interceptors, then HAC's - T2 fit them. Then look at Recons and HIC's and finally Command Ships(optional).
Once you have those covered... start looking at the battleships again. Look at me! I'm on the INTERNET!!! |
The Vixen
Stone Rosary
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Posted - 2009.02.16 16:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: arbiter reformed
Originally by: arbiter reformed minmitar are very rewarding, there also very sp intensive, the phoon needs good missile guns and drones skills for it to even be competetive. the tempest is probably the least sp of their bs's but its also very fun too fly.
minmitar bs's are underated, id say stick to it, also caldari bs's are very good these days (blaster rokh,torp raven- anyone disagrees with the raven being good just wait till you see one do 800 dps from 60 km)
so id say cross train to caldari if anything as missiles are very low sp intensive and you can use the shield skills on the maelstrom.
and the maelstrom is so awesome, it gets even better when you can afford to fly with a crystal set strong blu pill and faction meds :)
as for carriers get an archon not a thanny it sucks, nidhoggur is a great remote repper but thats about it,
oh and as for the naglfar i t s
f u c k i n g
v e r t i c a l
s o
i s
t h e
m y r m i d o n . . .
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Private Bank
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Posted - 2009.02.16 17:03:00 -
[28]
....
Well i just want to hear some typhoon pilots before im going to fly one my self.
is it good or bad?
Should i drop the 500k sp i got in minmatar and start on gallente? what would be best :S?
i mean if i start doing the "minmatar pvp plan" then i will get totally ****ed, if typhoon really sucks. about 5 mio sp wasted and that is not good >.<
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DuffmanPeter
Perpetua Umbra The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2009.02.16 17:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Private Bank ....
Well i just want to hear some typhoon pilots before im going to fly one my self.
is it good or bad?
Should i drop the 500k sp i got in minmatar and start on gallente? what would be best :S?
i mean if i start doing the "minmatar pvp plan" then i will get totally ****ed, if typhoon really sucks. about 5 mio sp wasted and that is not good >.<
I like using it. I dont have t2 large autos so I usually use neuts and torps which seems to work out well. My problem with it is the low grid and the inability to fit much of a tank without resorting to using medium neuts. Also you need way way more sp than 500k to be proficient with anything let alone a dual weapon systems ship. Train for the hurricane if you like minmatar, it rocks. If you want to train for the typhoon you are going to have to train for a long time. If you want to use BS's I like using the torp raven and I have read that amarr battleships are good. Imply or Implode?
There are many Duffman, don't tell the children... It's disillusioning!
Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem! |
Rheed
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.16 17:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Private Bank ....
Well i just want to hear some typhoon pilots before im going to fly one my self.
is it good or bad?
Should i drop the 500k sp i got in minmatar and start on gallente? what would be best :S?
i mean if i start doing the "minmatar pvp plan" then i will get totally ****ed, if typhoon really sucks. about 5 mio sp wasted and that is not good >.<
Every battleship is going to disappoint you if you skip all the "smaller" ships to get to it.
The "Minmatar Plan" as I layed out above is not just a skill point progression plan, but a pilot training plan as well. They are not an easy race to play. Some say Minmatar is "EvE on hard mode" and I would have to agree. I have a 12mil Minmatar character and I am *just* starting to round out my Battleship skills... Good thing is that all the other ships I maxxed out along the way are sooo much fun!! It makes the wait and the work worth it!
Minmatar ships need player knowledge more than character skills. I am a firm believer that there is a Minmatar ship for everything!
While I am still working on maximizing my skills to effectivly pilot a Typhoon, I just gotta say that this ship can be set up in so many different ways for so many different situations... I always get nervous when I meet one on the field of battle as it is really difficult to anticipate how it is set up.
Look at me! I'm on the INTERNET!!! |
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