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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.19 21:44:00 -
[91]
Minmatar get the best sub BS ships. I trained Minmatar because of this.
The battleships... are fast and light and stuff, but that doesn't matter for their size class.
Their capitals are possibly the worst of the bunch, but that's not saying all _that_ much, as they're all about the same anyway.
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Tybalt Usra
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Posted - 2009.02.19 21:52:00 -
[92]
Typhoons drone bay should be used for utility, just sayin.
Typhoon is an awesome RR battleship but for solo work I would only fly it if I coudln't fly any other race. Also lol-solo-bs, I want to play the eve you guys are playing where that is even remotely a good idea.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.02.19 22:21:00 -
[93]
 Originally by: Vrabac
EDIT - um why is f-i-t-t-a- censored? 
It's Nordic slang for "*****."
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.02.19 22:29:00 -
[94]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Minmatar get the best sub BS ships. I trained Minmatar because of this.
The battleships... are fast and light and stuff, but that doesn't matter for their size class.
Their capitals are possibly the worst of the bunch, but that's not saying all _that_ much, as they're all about the same anyway.
Because the four races were conceived of before battleships were introduced.
So the whole, "fast & lotsa guns" thing was around before the "big heavy slow heavy hitters". And the two were never really reconciled.
So all their big stuff is garbage, even capitals. The capless weapon thing is a perk, but nothing special since the Caldari have it too.
Fast & split weapon systems are cool when the biggest thing you have are cruisers, but when you gotta train three large/xlarge weapon systems to extreme levels to use all your capability, you're SOL. It's literally quicker to train up another race's battleships or capitals than train up all three weapon systems to the level needed to make minmatar excel.
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Liisa
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Posted - 2009.02.20 00:04:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714
Originally by: James Lyrus
Minmatar get the best sub BS ships. I trained Minmatar because of this.
The battleships... are fast and light and stuff, but that doesn't matter for their size class.
Their capitals are possibly the worst of the bunch, but that's not saying all _that_ much, as they're all about the same anyway.
Because the four races were conceived of before battleships were introduced.
So the whole, "fast & lotsa guns" thing was around before the "big heavy slow heavy hitters". And the two were never really reconciled.
So all their big stuff is garbage, even capitals. The capless weapon thing is a perk, but nothing special since the Caldari have it too.
Fast & split weapon systems are cool when the biggest thing you have are cruisers, but when you gotta train three large/xlarge weapon systems to extreme levels to use all your capability, you're SOL. It's literally quicker to train up another race's battleships or capitals than train up all three weapon systems to the level needed to make minmatar excel.
It is brutal on new players, however once you have your skills crosstraining becomes the simple matter of training up the t1 ship skills to level 5.
Now, I know that you are arguing that from a min/max point of view and, yes, from that point of view the minmatar race is definately the worst of the lot. On the other hand it does mean that you get used to flying lots of different styles and it forces you to train lots of skills you normally wouldn't. Sure it gimps you, however there is a certain amount of satisfaction that I felt and feel when I can make minmatar battleships work against races that have it pretty easy in that field. Of course min/maxers normally do not want a challenge.
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Sagacious Z
Minmatar
Eve University
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Posted - 2009.02.20 01:41:00 -
[96]
Stay with Minmatar. Look, it doesn't matter whether it is a frigate or a battleship. Higher skill points in a "lesser ship" beats lower skillpoints in a "better ship". I'll take a better skill point player in a lesser frigate, e.g., over a lower skill point player in the "better Rifter". Second, Minmatar have some excellent ships. Finally, how many 1 vs 1s will you have? In fleet/gang action, there are roles. A ship's bonuses come into play more so in fleet or gang action, and every ship can play an important role.
If it were true that one race's ships were so much better than another race's, then nearly everybody would fly that specific race's ships. The game makers would see their game having a bigtime problem as each of the four major races must have somewhat of a balance or the storyline goes out the window as does the game. What a boring game if the great majority of players were all one race.
It is in CCP's interest to tweak the four major factions' ships to keep somewhat of a balance in ship attributes so there is a fairly even distribution of each faction. In future releases, look for that to happen should the balance be upset. Do you want to keep swaying back and forth for "flavor of the release"?
Conclusion? Stay with Minmatar.
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EinaruS
Euphoria Released
Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.02.20 02:15:00 -
[97]
across my characters i can fly nearly anything of any race.
i keep coming back to minmatar and well recently amarr for pvp.
it's true that the minmatar ships are overall more skill intensive but it's well worth it in the end.
the minmatar were recently hit a bit heavily with speed nerf but it's semi balanced out or it will balance out eventually.
minmatar are the best overall race in my opinion for pvp, the most fun and rewarding in the end.
you're going to have the highest alpha strike in fleets
fast hac, awesome command ship, great bc, good logistic ship, great dictor, great ceptors, great cruisers
great frigates, an ugly carrier and a well lets face it naglfar isn't that great a dread but it's not like you're going to be soloing in a dread much anyways.
This all said, you only have 3million sp, that's nothing you should focus on the core of the skills anyways.
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A finger...especially the middle one, is worth more than any amount of isk |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.20 03:04:00 -
[98]
Most roaming gangs I see are Cruiser sized and smaller. Which happens to be where Minmatar excell. Big fleet fights? Not so much of course, but how often does the average 0.0 alliance go on roams versus playing a round of Battleship Excell Spreadsheet?
And after all this time, I finally removed that annoying sentence in my signature.
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Lasran Tekeal
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Posted - 2009.02.20 03:08:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Spaztick
Most roaming gangs I see are Cruiser sized and smaller. Which happens to be where Minmatar excell. Big fleet fights? Not so much of course, but how often does the average 0.0 alliance go on roams versus playing a round of Battleship Excell Spreadsheet?
Cruiser sized hit and run groups ftw ^^
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Aida Ruiz
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.20 06:53:00 -
[100]
Fly whatever you want and don't put too much stock in the current pecking order. It wasn't too long ago (pre-hp doubling) that the Tempest was the fleet battleship and Amarr were almost universally shunned for PvP. Gallente also rode atop everyone else for quite a long time afterwards, but now are overshadowed by Caldari and Amarr. Things change. Minmatar battleships and Dreads are currently a notch below the rest, but things will change. The Nidhogger and Typhoon are already 100% improvements from what they were several years ago, I have no doubt that sooner than later things will swing back towards Minmatar.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.02.20 07:25:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 20/02/2009 07:32:01
[Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 20/02/2009 07:28:06
Their seems to be a general debate between eve players on when you should get in a certain type of ship. BS are the prime example. Many say dont fly a BS unless you can completely T2 fit it. This is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard. Essentually your being told not to fly a ship unless you can fly it perfectly.
For the OP,
I came from a Heavy PVP MMO thats based more on the abilities of the person controlling the character than on the skills of the character( since you can max skill a toon in that game in 12-24 hours of straight grinding with help)
And i will tell you from PVP experience(7 years worth), what your using isnt near as important as how you use it. Whenit comes down to it what matters is your PVP skills not your toons.
Many on here will tell you that you shouldnt fly a BS unless you can completely T2 fit it( even if you dont T2 fit it). I would tell these guys to go back WOW and carebear it up some more.
Simply put if you lack experience in the ship the end result is going to be the nearly same with T2 fits as T1 without experience in that ship. Your going to lose BS and your probably going to lose alot of them if you PVP in them.. whether your max skilled or not. And that pretty much goes for anything. Theirs always going to be someone better.
What also makes this high SP arguement invalid is the fact that it is assumed if you were pitted against another pilot solo. I have seen almost 0 solo fights in this game. Theirs a 90% chance one side is going to have more pilots than the other and even if sides are evenly matched its probably still not going to be solo on solo. This game is more GvG and less PVP. SO your lack of skills over someone that is T2ed out is going to become more and more marginal.. and in most battles not going to matter alot unless your running something critical like solo tackle or solo EWAR.
Its better to be t2ed out yes.. but i wouldnt recommend waiting until you are to fly one. your going to miss out on alot of experience that way and your still going to lose alot of ships.
You want solid advise: dont fly anything in pvp you cant afford to lose at least 5 of( in other words if you lose a BS building another one shouldnt break your bank account). Besides that get out their and try....i would recommend running in a small- medium gang until you get a feel for the ship in combat but thats just me.
As for ships minnys arent bad.I have a friend that loves flying them and he does quite well in them. IMO gallente and amarr are better but really it comes down to what you prefer to fly and knowing the ships you do fly. For instance i am caldari oriented and i can build some mean missleboats/shield tankers but when it comes to gallente( what im cross trained to) i struggle a bit with getting a good solid ship setup....because im use to caldari ships and i know what i can do with them and how they handle.
Today Lessons:
1) Dont fly what you cant afford to lose other than that if you can get in it and want to go for it, its your isk.
2)Fly something your happy flying. You will have alot more fun flying ships you want to fly and like flying than going out in what someone else thinks is a OMGWTFPWNMOBILE.the best pvp ships arent always the funnest to fly. And if your not here to have fun you might as well ask CCP for a job app. cause you just turned this into one.
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.02.20 10:44:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 19/02/2009 22:32:57
Originally by: Vrabac
EDIT - um why is f-i-t-t-a- censored?
It's Nordic slang for "*****."
http://www.tolkis.com/enghonda.html
Interesting. Got to love censorships of that type. Having to mind swedish curse words while typing is new to me. 
As for t2 fittings, I wouldn't fly a ship with t1 weapons on it any more. That's after few years of experience in THIS mmo, not some other. Not saying one should never fit t1 because that is obviously absurd - we can't speed up time, and skillpoints only increase lineary over it. But one should definitely strive to have ability to fit his prefered ship with t2 guns and to have maxed dmg related support skills. Been in fights with way too many numerically superior people in ships that were only 60% of what they could be and wouldn't like to have such guys in my gang. New player will of course be eager to try out his ship with his skills, and he has every right to do it, but he'll never be counted on in the same way a well skilled character will.
But yeah, bottom line is definitely to fly what you like, not what's current fotm. It's that sort of mindset that brings most nerfs, creating an achura and training it for what people say is best at that moment on forum. Than many more people do the same and we have hundreds of achuras in myrmidons - myrmidon gets nerfed. Hundreds of achuras in nano hacs - nano hacs get nerfed. Hundreds of achuras in falcons - *keeps fingers crossed for pattern to hold. 
Look I managed to include falcon whine after all. 
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Visceroth
Minmatar
The Athiest Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.20 14:48:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Aida Ruiz
Fly whatever you want and don't put too much stock in the current pecking order. It wasn't too long ago (pre-hp doubling) that the Tempest was the fleet battleship and Amarr were almost universally shunned for PvP. Gallente also rode atop everyone else for quite a long time afterwards, but now are overshadowed by Caldari and Amarr. Things change. Minmatar battleships and Dreads are currently a notch below the rest, but things will change. The Nidhogger and Typhoon are already 100% improvements from what they were several years ago, I have no doubt that sooner than later things will swing back towards Minmatar.
Agreeing with a Goon...I feel dirty now.
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