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Being able to mine directly into an Orca is silly

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Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.02.18 22:26:00 - [61] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 18/02/2009 22:28:29 Suicide their Orca or wardec them, as to use the corporation hanger they must be non-NPC. That sort of loss, done a couple of times, and they'll be back to jetcans before you know it. The option is there, it's not 100% immunity, it's just not an option you're prepared to take. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Ashen Angel Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.02.19 00:36:00 - [62] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 18/02/2009 22:28:29 Suicide their Orca or wardec them, as to use the corporation hanger they must be non-NPC. That sort of loss, done a couple of times, and they'll be back to jetcans before you know it. The option is there, it's not 100% immunity, it's just not an option you're prepared to take. They can use the corporate hangar on the orca even in npc corporations... same as any ship equipped with one. A npc corp pilot can not pull out of the ship, unless they are the pilot of the ship though. But the hangar can be used to drop items into the orca for the pilot to move around. EVE University - Mining Fleet : Mining Specialist
Kanikara Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.02.19 01:46:00 - [63] yeah the only thing related to corp hangars in an npc corp is... the station based ones. The tabs and ship hangars are still accessible. Besides: to get the benefit of the orca... they have to really train the leadership skills (yep, really hurts the achura min/max crowd...) Not to mention the effort (even if it's rl work to earn enough to sell the gtcs) to afford the orca and implants
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.02.19 01:58:00 - [64] Originally by: Tzar'rim Our Confirmed Kills list states otherwise. So let me get this straight - you're claiming that mining into an Orca is 100% safe, yet you have Orca/Hulk fleets on your confirmed kill list?
Kanikara Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.02.19 02:21:00 - [65] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Tzar'rim Our Confirmed Kills list states otherwise. So let me get this straight - you're claiming that mining into an Orca is 100% safe, yet you have Orca/Hulk fleets on your confirmed kill list? but but he said they don't use a kill board anymore...
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.02.19 02:24:00 - [66] Originally by: Kanikara but but he said they don't use a kill board anymore... No, apparently they use a "confirmed kill list" which is not a "kill board".
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.02.19 21:31:00 - [67] My my, what bunch of nice replies showing exactly what I figured would happen; people who either don't understand the situation, somehow think that because it's not their preferred playstyle it therefore has no merit or are frantically trying to defend their advantage (which is ok ofcourse, although the fact that there's no debate but rather crap posting says enough). The reason we don't have a KB anymore is because we can't be bothered with the "oooh we destroyed x mil!!!!!oneeleventy". We kill a target and it shows up on the corp confirmed list, you know the one... in your corporation window, hence the "confirmed kills" name as... that's how it's named. Most of you are incapable or unwilling to actually debate the real issue, the fact that being able to directly move goods into an Orca from another ship (in this case a miner) isn't exactly in "EVE's spirit" as it's a 100% safe operation while at the same time benefitting from the Orca itself. Oh well, I'll keep voicing my opinion on this. Who knows what good it will do.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.02.19 21:45:00 - [68] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 19/02/2009 21:46:05 Originally by: Tzar'rim My my, what bunch of nice replies showing exactly what I figured would happen; people who either don't understand the situation, somehow think that because it's not their preferred playstyle it therefore has no merit or are frantically trying to defend their advantage (which is ok ofcourse, although the fact that there's no debate but rather crap posting says enough). The reason we don't have a KB anymore is because we can't be bothered with the "oooh we destroyed x mil!!!!!oneeleventy". We kill a target and it shows up on the corp confirmed list, you know the one... in your corporation window, hence the "confirmed kills" name as... that's how it's named. Most of you are incapable or unwilling to actually debate the real issue, the fact that being able to directly move goods into an Orca from another ship (in this case a miner) isn't exactly in "EVE's spirit" as it's a 100% safe operation while at the same time benefitting from the Orca itself. Oh well, I'll keep voicing my opinion on this. Who knows what good it will do. shoves a baby pacifier into OP's mouth Get a backbone... go to 0.0 and go pirate there. Stop your cryin. It's not a matter of people who didn't understand or didn't read... its you refusing to use your stupid brain. Don't blame us for your short comings. And I have it on good authority that its not 100% Safe... I know people who hunt Orca's in high sec. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.19 22:05:00 - [69] Again OP, get smart about your targets. Plenty of Orca's out there with no fittings to assist in the event of attack given you precious seconds of suicide time if they are in NPC corps.
Kanikara Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.02.19 23:04:00 - [70] Originally by: Tzar'rim My my, what bunch of nice replies showing exactly what I figured would happen; people who either don't understand the situation, somehow think that because it's not their preferred playstyle it therefore has no merit or are frantically trying to defend their advantage (which is ok ofcourse, although the fact that there's no debate but rather crap posting says enough). The reason we don't have a KB anymore is because we can't be bothered with the "oooh we destroyed x mil!!!!!oneeleventy". We kill a target and it shows up on the corp confirmed list, you know the one... in your corporation window, hence the "confirmed kills" name as... that's how it's named. Most of you are incapable or unwilling to actually debate the real issue, the fact that being able to directly move goods into an Orca from another ship (in this case a miner) isn't exactly in "EVE's spirit" as it's a 100% safe operation while at the same time benefitting from the Orca itself. Oh well, I'll keep voicing my opinion on this. Who knows what good it will do. Yeah, I mean they can't be suicided... Then there are those juicy traders in Jita just waiting for you to shoot them.. there is no 100% safe, there are options you choose not to use. get it right op You are whinging because your style of operation got harder, even though the number of orcas to miners isn't 1 to 1 or even close to being every miner dumping into an orca... You have targets out there, you just got to work harder to find them. They adapt of course.. and you'll start seeing more GSCs used for storage or just transfer rendering flips impossible... Or the ever fun hulk cargo runs.

Ris Dnalor Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.22 21:10:00 - [71] I agree with OP
Erica 'cowpig'Lafehr Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.23 00:40:00 - [72] I'm sure you, OP, have read on the forums how the Orca is being used my neg. sec. status pirates. They pod into high sec fly to an Orca in a SS board their ships that are inside and away from sentry guns and gank high sec miners haven't you? And I bet it brought a smile to your face. Yes? One could argue that the intended use of the Orca was not for this but it can be used in this way. So what miners can mine straight into it. Now you have to work a little at finding miners w/o an Orca or find a new way of earning isk. Sorry but you're pain I do not have pitty for. I love tears...
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.02.23 01:04:00 - [73] Originally by: Erica 'cowpig'Lafehr I'm sure you, OP, have read on the forums how the Orca is being used my neg. sec. status pirates. They pod into high sec fly to an Orca in a SS board their ships that are inside and away from sentry guns and gank high sec miners haven't you? And I bet it brought a smile to your face. Yes? One could argue that the intended use of the Orca was not for this but it can be used in this way. So what miners can mine straight into it. Now you have to work a little at finding miners w/o an Orca or find a new way of earning isk. Sorry but you're pain I do not have pitty for. I love tears... a) post with your main b) you assume things as (just as most people) you polarize issues based on how your percieve a certain person, instead of keeping to facts and logic. In fact I do NOT think (and have posted on that as such) that outlaws should somehow be able to negate the downside of being an outlaw, the "normal use of high sec". If people decide that going outlaw is cool or they accept the downside of doing low sec pewpew (or suiciding) then they should not be able to circumvent the results of that. As I see it Concord should simply follow you around if you're flying a ship, following you till you come out of warp and attack as only concord can do it. No silly faction police crap. Self-proclaimed idiot
Malthros Zenobia Cadian Special Operations Command	Posted - 2009.02.23 02:44:00 - [74] The bottom line is your complaint is irrelevant Tzar'rim. The point of a corporate hangar array on a ship is so people can directly access corp assets in space. The fact that people use it to directly dump ore while mining is 'smart', just liike can-flipping is 'smart'. The problem you see is that when people work intelligently, they are '100% safe' because you don't have an overly easy method (can flipping) of getting them prepped to kill easily. In your OP you say putting effort in should make people safe but not 100% safe, yet you refuse to acknowledge the fact that using secure containers already provided this. Orcas (and all other ships with a corp hangar array), simply assist in a more convenient fashion. In the case of the Orca, it is doing exactly what it was created to do, be a mining assistance platform. Do you thing that corp hangar array wouldn't be there if CCP didn't intend for it to be used? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Rene Fullchest	Posted - 2009.02.23 03:32:00 - [75] Your boo-hoo-hoo tears fuel both my hulk and my Orca. Thank you.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.02.23 08:57:00 - [76] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 23/02/2009 09:04:50 Originally by: Malthros Zenobia The bottom line is your complaint is irrelevant Tzar'rim. The point of a corporate hangar array on a ship is so people can directly access corp assets in space. The fact that people use it to directly dump ore while mining is 'smart', just liike can-flipping is 'smart'. The problem you see is that when people work intelligently, they are '100% safe' because you don't have an overly easy method (can flipping) of getting them prepped to kill easily. In your OP you say putting effort in should make people safe but not 100% safe, yet you refuse to acknowledge the fact that using secure containers already provided this. Orcas (and all other ships with a corp hangar array), simply assist in a more convenient fashion. In the case of the Orca, it is doing exactly what it was created to do, be a mining assistance platform. Do you thing that corp hangar array wouldn't be there if CCP didn't intend for it to be used? Finally a normal arguement, written in a normal way. Secure containers are 100% safe, that is why CCP refused to increase them in size compared to normal cans. They are safe at the cost of size restrictions, having to be anchored and having anchoring restrictions (5km range). So CCP gave someone the option of being safe at the cost of it taking more effort. Which is exactly as it should be, I have no problems with that at all. If someone puts in the effort to secure his assets at the cost of efficiency then he gets to reap the rewards. Now we go to the Orca. It has a mining bonus which helps tremendously, that's good. It gets the tractor bonuses which just makes sense, that's also good. It gets a huge cargo hold and the hangar allows for storage of a bunch ships in case the miners need to defend their assets. The ship fills it's intended role to optimise and increase efficiency for miners, and (normally) due to the tractor beam stuff it increases the security of their assets. But, adding to all the bonuses of efficiency, size etc it also provides a 100% secure system? That's TOO much. That would be the same as saying that someone who doesn't put in the effort to make sure his T2 hauler/freighter gets ganked by using scouts, effort and some thinking should somehow get a free 'get out of jail' card by adding immunity to being locked, or scrammed or whatever. Or someone who bought himself a Marauder instead of a normal BS can't be locked, killed or jammed, just because on top of the other bonuses the extra cost should make him fully immune. It just doesn't make sense in this EVE world. Stating that "people just make smart use of the options they have" is true but that didn't stop CCP from saying that Carriers shouldn't be used as haulers, and thus added restrictions to them. Same thing applies here imo. Self-proclaimed idiot
Stick Cult	Posted - 2009.02.23 09:25:00 - [77] What about mining and flying back to station to drop it off?
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.02.23 09:28:00 - [78] Originally by: Stick Cult What about mining and flying back to station to drop it off? It increases security at the cost of effiency and effort, thus there's no problem with it. Self-proclaimed idiot
Caphis	Posted - 2009.02.23 10:04:00 - [79] not suported...as the old saying for salge thing its a feature..war dec the orca pilot and stop wining
Kanikara Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:16:00 - [80] Originally by: Tzar'rim <snip for posting limits> An orca is not 100% safe in high sec. It can be suicide attacked. In response to the desire for larger containers CCP decided to give the community the Orca. You forget the original containers were released when there were no barges just laser equipped cruisers/battleships as the top mining ships. Rather than release larger SC's they released the Orca which is a fleet ship increasing the multi-player aspect of mining (even if many do it with alts). It's not a ship most can get into real quick unless they were already trained up for fleet boosting with mining foreman while piloting a hulk. You have at least 120-180 days for most starting characters (current not expansion) to even be functional in the orca. It's expensive, balanced out now to about half a billion isk or so for the hull. Close enough to a freighter in cost when outfitted. Most small operations will not be able to afford one, and will just cargo rig hulks... or anchor a GSC for transfer into a hauler on station (resulting in the same security as the orca...) You just have to hunt more and farther, or resort to options you choose not to use. Look on the bright side, your style of play was one of the reasons CCP released the Orca. You changed EVE Online, just not in the way you wanted it to evolve.

Jitabug Caldari Viva POS Pinata	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:28:00 - [81] Originally by: Tzar'rim Have no problems with things becoming more difficult or challenging. But Immunity is something EVE shouldn't have, and atm with an Orca you're immune. A bit like being a "pirate" in an NPC corp you mean? If people are using a 500m isk ship as a giant secure container, that's their right. 500m isk is a an expensive cargo can.
Kusum Fawn	Posted - 2009.03.04 15:49:00 - [82] Oh how i love it, finally miners are becoming harder to kill. harder to gank and harder to outsmart, Pirate tears anyone, theres more then enough... 1) why are you messing with miners? 2) For what reason other then griefing do you mess with miners 3) what did that miner do to you? 4) Orcas are the answer to griefers like you 5) orcas are expensive for small corps 6) not everyone in a corp is online at the same time 7) not everyone can fly an orca or has an alt that can 8) A killboard full of miners? (sorry a kill message something) 9) really you just suck 10) why arent you shooting other pirates again?
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.04 15:56:00 - [83] I have no problem when it comes to killing macro miners. One of the reasons I never mine alone is that very reason... I'm the one with the Bestower following me wherever it goes : O P You want to be a real pirate? Go to 0.0 and be a man. : O ) I hear its lovely in Delve this time of year =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Fahtim Meidires Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.04 19:17:00 - [84] Even if one couldn't put ore directly into an orca's hold, the orca could simply anchor a secure can and sit right next to it. In fact, any stationary hauler can do the same thing, and have been able to since secure cans have been around. Miners -> secure can -> hauler. 100% safe. This isn't anything new I'm afraid.
Katie Door the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.03.05 11:35:00 - [85] Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 23/02/2009 snip/snip Now we go to the Orca. It has a mining bonus which helps tremendously, that's good. It gets the tractor bonuses which just makes sense, that's also good. It gets a huge cargo hold and the hangar allows for storage of a bunch ships in case the miners need to defend their assets. The ship fills it's intended role to optimise and increase efficiency for miners, and (normally) due to the tractor beam stuff it increases the security of their assets. But, adding to all the bonuses of efficiency, size etc it also provides a 100% secure system? That's TOO much. snip/snip The corporate hanger does not store ship, the ship maintenance bay stores assembled ships, the corp hanger on an Orca stores "stuff", ore mined by the miners is dropped in the corp hanger, which is moved by the Orca pilot from the corp hanger into the cargo hold of said Orca (which means the orca pilot, while not doing much i suppose, can't really be AFK for extended periods of time. if u wanna talk about 100% safe, then moan about 100% safe haulers for empire, the blockade runners. even in 0.0 (i imagine) they are very hard to catch, if the blockade runner has 2 braincells to rub together. IOW: adept or die P.s.: I suck @ quoting
Gone'Postal Void Engineers Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.05 13:36:00 - [86] Originally by: Tzar'rim This creates a completely safe mining environment (apart from suicides) Originally by: Tzar'rim but 100% safety is NOT what EVE is about I've bolded the part that breaks your own argument. How can something be 100% safe, but have a exception, or did you just decide to ignore it? Originally by: masternerdguy Officer mods arent spread out because the bpos are innacesible to 99% of eve.
Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.03.05 21:57:00 - [87] They are being organized by doing so. So why don't you stop whining and be organized as well, bump them away from the orca. ___________________ Yes I'm bitter. (the taste you can see!)


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