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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
89
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Posted - 2012.07.02 14:47:00 -
[91] - Quote
I've been on both sides of the coin on this one. I've been locked by ceptors at close range, thought "I'm screwed," then my ship warps off. I've also been on the locking side, both with fast lock/tackle and with alpha fleets. One second delays between locking and module activation are unbearably long when so many things in Eve can happen in the span on fractions of a second.
Another fun one is warping out while the bubble effect is popping up. I assume this is also related to the 1 second tick rate? |

Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
22
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Posted - 2012.07.02 15:09:00 -
[92] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:I know that it's well documented. But being able to link a DevBlog and say "look you blistering barnacled baboon, here's exactly how it works, straight from the horse's mouth" would be nice for some of the denser people who cling tight to they're myth. Or they could just link here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Aligning#.27Passive.27_Alignment |
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CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
538

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Posted - 2012.07.02 16:24:00 -
[93] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:But increased tick rate would improve the feel of eve by alot I think, more specificly in actions like accelerating, turning your ship... basic manuvering :P like stopping your ship too... all that would react faster then? But I bet that would be much more work than "simply" making prefired modules activated on lock.
Just currious though... have you guys experimented before with making the tick rate of "Destiny" faster?, I mean, say it was 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec... does that increase the load of the servers by 100%? would the servers even be able to finish all the operations? or wouldn't it be able to finish the database queries faster, and thus relieve some stress? That is something I would be interrested to hear about also in your dev blog if you make one soon :)
- edit: This would also allow frigs to increase their survivability a bit, as they can then change alignment faster, and thus decrease the chance they get one shotted by a hurricane or other snipers Yeah, I've played around with it. It's really easy to change the update rate - it's just a number in a source code file. The effect it has on performance is non-trivial though. While it's not a straight linear increase because it doesn't change the amount of events that happen directly, it does increase the communication overhead and things like that. I'm hoping that we can get to a point with optimization where we can increase it a bit and see how things go. As you say, there's a lot of elements in the game that would benefit from smoother physics. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software |
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CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
538

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Posted - 2012.07.02 16:30:00 -
[94] - Quote
Cebraio wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) Isn't that covered here already? I remember when I read it back then, I found it very informative. Didn't read it today though. Maybe it's not what you had in mind. That covers things that are inside the tick quite well, but at least from my re-glance-over, doesn't touch the interaction between physics and systems like locking and modules. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software |
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Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
330
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Posted - 2012.07.02 16:30:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:Bubanni wrote:But increased tick rate would improve the feel of eve by alot I think, more specificly in actions like accelerating, turning your ship... basic manuvering :P like stopping your ship too... all that would react faster then? But I bet that would be much more work than "simply" making prefired modules activated on lock.
Just currious though... have you guys experimented before with making the tick rate of "Destiny" faster?, I mean, say it was 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec... does that increase the load of the servers by 100%? would the servers even be able to finish all the operations? or wouldn't it be able to finish the database queries faster, and thus relieve some stress? That is something I would be interrested to hear about also in your dev blog if you make one soon :)
- edit: This would also allow frigs to increase their survivability a bit, as they can then change alignment faster, and thus decrease the chance they get one shotted by a hurricane or other snipers Yeah, I've played around with it. It's really easy to change the update rate - it's just a number in a source code file. The effect it has on performance is non-trivial though. While it's not a straight linear increase because it doesn't change the amount of events that happen directly, it does increase the communication overhead and things like that. I'm hoping that we can get to a point with optimization where we can increase it a bit and see how things go. As you say, there's a lot of elements in the game that would benefit from smoother physics.
Like I said last time... I LOVE YOU! |

Khanh'rhh
1371
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Posted - 2012.07.02 18:56:00 -
[96] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:CCP Veritas wrote:You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) A Dev blog detailing how it works would be awesome. (Could you also detail how aligning works, so we can finally put to rest the idea of a passive align, pretty please?) It's already very very very very very well documented how aligning works, another dev blog on it won't help people who haven't taken the time to read the existing material on it, just like all the people who think "aggressive" drones will aggress can flippers. They're myths spread by well intentioned but ill-informed people sitting in help channels offering advice. E: I would support a resolution on this issue, it is actually really annoying. I know that it's well documented. But being able to link a DevBlog and say "look you blistering barnacled baboon, here's exactly how it works, straight from the horse's mouth" would be nice for some of the denser people who cling tight to they're myth. You mean like the existing "here's exactly how it works" taken straight from the Official Evelopedia? ( http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Aligning )
Quote:There is no benefit to the ship and how long it takes to get into warp; in EVE, ships are modelled as vectors, and the actual orientation of the engines has no relevance to the direction in which thrust is applied. Therefore the time to warp when passive aligned is the same as if the ship were pointing in the opposite direction but stationary.
Link that. If they won't believe that they won't believe anything. You don't need a dev reply every time someone patently refuses to see what is right in front of them.
@Veritas - the "myth" is that having your ship stationary and pointed at something is "aligned" in some way, despite everything ever telling people this isn't how it works. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |

Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
96
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Posted - 2012.07.02 19:23:00 -
[97] - Quote
Please give us a nice devblog and faster heartbeat! :D |

Kristoffon Ellecon
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
46
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Posted - 2012.07.02 22:33:00 -
[98] - Quote
I agree this is an important issue and would like to see it addressed as well. |

Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
217
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Posted - 2012.07.03 03:09:00 -
[99] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:Please give us a nice devblog and faster heartbeat! :D Dammit Jim. I'm a doctor, not an engineer!!! Why won't CCP fix the ongoing FW issues? Fix the speed tanking of plexes
CCP Sreegs - I'm just Winston Wolf |

Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
333
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Posted - 2012.07.03 20:26:00 -
[100] - Quote
Veritas I was wondering what the eta of your dev blog might be?  |
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Johnson Johnson
Heretic University Heretic Nation
20
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Posted - 2012.07.03 21:37:00 -
[101] - Quote
eve online is a turn based space strategy and always will be |

Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
42
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Posted - 2012.07.04 12:49:00 -
[102] - Quote
Fix this. |

Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 02:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
Mhmm also greatly interested in this possibly being rectified. Nothign more annoying than calling point and watching that frigate warp off as it says in local something about fail. DEATH TO TEH FRIGATES -.- |

Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
341
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Posted - 2012.07.10 21:22:00 -
[104] - Quote
Any news Veritas? What has other devs said about all this? How low priority did it get on the to do list? Eta on the blog you are going to make?
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Po3tank
Basgerin Pirate
8
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Posted - 2012.07.14 10:34:00 -
[105] - Quote
bump! I just missed 3 frigs because of this issue  |

Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
29
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Posted - 2012.07.14 11:11:00 -
[106] - Quote
Any chance when you guys upgrade the hardware you can try to fix or at least tune this timing a bit better? It does cause you to miss point when 1 or 2 seconds count and wasn't an issue before the server timing thing or whatever changed it. |

cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers THORN Alliance
65
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Posted - 2012.07.14 11:58:00 -
[107] - Quote
I have noticed this problem for a long time now. I dont recall it being so obvious in the past but this last year or so it is very evident.
I too would like a CCP devblog on this overall issue with 1hz ticks. Also if it is possible to smooth out then DO IT!! =D "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |

Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
364
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Posted - 2012.07.23 00:44:00 -
[108] - Quote
Any news Veritas? Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275
Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |

Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
414
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Posted - 2012.08.09 16:53:00 -
[109] - Quote
:3 would love to hear this thing being one of the things looked at for winter expansion (prefired modules being server sided) on a side note.... I noticed I can basicly bump into a cloaking ship before it cloaks on a gate, and then run directly past it (trying to lock it the entire time) and because I am too fast, it never gets decloaked as I enter the 2km radius and leave the 2km radius in much less than a sec... which because of the 1hz ticks registeres as me never having been within 2km of the cloaked ship... Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |

Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
423
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Posted - 2012.08.16 10:54:00 -
[110] - Quote
check check Veritas? hows it going? :D you said you were doing a blog about this? do you think you can do something to improve this part of gameplay for christmas? Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275
Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
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Butzewutze
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.08.16 16:17:00 -
[111] - Quote
supported! |

Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
98
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Posted - 2012.09.10 19:05:00 -
[112] - Quote
Bump, and yes veritas you still owe us the devblog and adrenaline shoot. |

TRUE ZER0
SILENT INC
25
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Posted - 2012.09.10 19:27:00 -
[113] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Bubanni wrote:Misanth wrote:If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story.  I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+ Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc. The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different.. TL;DR we have to suck it up. Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible. 
Been along time, but have been victim of the phatom warp more than once. One time I was setting on a gate in my ship and I couldn't activate it. While complaining on comms, corpmate informed that he not only watched me lose the fight back on station but he has looking at my corpse has we were speaking. In before lock. |

Qorvis Communications
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.09.11 04:15:00 -
[114] - Quote
Sgt LoveDragon wrote:Mhmm also greatly interested in this possibly being rectified. Nothign more annoying than calling point and watching that frigate warp off as it says in local something about fail. DEATH TO TEH FRIGATES -.- awesome avatar |

GOTMYEYEONYOU
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.09.11 04:43:00 -
[115] - Quote
TRUE ZER0 wrote:Misanth wrote:Bubanni wrote:Misanth wrote:If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story.  I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+ Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc. The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different.. TL;DR we have to suck it up. Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible.  Been along time, but have been victim of the phatom warp more than once. One time I was setting on a gate in my ship and I couldn't activate it. While complaining on comms, corpmate informed that he not only watched me lose the fight back on station but he has looking at my corpse has we were speaking. i too have been victim of the phantom warp |

GOTMYEYEONYOU
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.09.11 05:01:00 -
[116] - Quote
TRUE ZER0 wrote:Misanth wrote:Bubanni wrote:Misanth wrote:If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story.  I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+ Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc. The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different.. TL;DR we have to suck it up. Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible.  Been along time, but have been victim of the phatom warp more than once. One time I was setting on a gate in my ship and I couldn't activate it. While complaining on comms, corpmate informed that he not only watched me lose the fight back on station but he has looking at my corpse has we were speaking. This has happened to me as well. For some reason, this conversation seems familiar. |

Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
340
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 08:18:00 -
[117] - Quote
Gate camping is a terrible mechanic, don't fix this. |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
135
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Posted - 2012.09.11 08:47:00 -
[118] - Quote
Bubanni wrote::3 would love to hear this thing being one of the things looked at for winter expansion (prefired modules being server sided) on a side note.... I noticed I can basicly bump into a cloaking ship before it cloaks on a gate, and then run directly past it (trying to lock it the entire time) and because I am too fast, it never gets decloaked as I enter the 2km radius and leave the 2km radius in much less than a sec... which because of the 1hz ticks registeres as me never having been within 2km of the cloaked ship...
Been the cov ops in this situation a few times, mr interceptor flying right through me and out the otherside without decloaking me. Of course i loved it at the time ....
|

Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
434
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Posted - 2012.09.11 09:13:00 -
[119] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Gate camping is a terrible mechanic, don't fix this. THis doesnt only affect gate camping.... It's all tackling everywhere Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |

Cede Forster
70
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Posted - 2012.09.11 10:38:00 -
[120] - Quote
just to make sure i really got this
Client(1) to Server: Lock target Client(2) to Server: Warp to X
- Tick 1- Server to Client(1). Target locked Server to Client(2): Ship flight vector set - End Tick 1-
Client to Server(1): Activate module on target (regardless if you click the module on the target or manual do after target lock)
-Tick 2- Server to Client(2): Warp initiated, dropping all target locks Server to Client(1): No target lock exists, module can not be activated -End Tick 2-
I am just guessing here, but the server will simply check if the warp conditions are met before any input because the warp command is stored server side(therefore is the first in the list, rest is sorted by the time they reached the server), the activate module command is stored client side?
If that is the case, you can not catch a ship once the "align time" is below 2 seconds, it could be adjusted so the "warp initiate" stays server side but is processed at the end, the result would be that all ships would be caught, independent of their align time as long you lock them as fast as they set warp
only way to solve it is to save the "warp command" and the "tackle command" server side with the time stamp of the original order issued, have the server calculate seperatly when the command should be valid (align time, lock time) and sort the events by it?
does not sound like a easy fix |
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