EVE Search - Module activation delay.

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Module activation delay.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 236	Posted - 2012.04.24 12:27:00 - [1] - Quote Hi CCP, and everybody else.... Can you please work on improveing module activation delay... or more specificly, the time it takes for a warp disruptor to activate right after you locked a target (fx a fast frigate) As I see it now, there is a delay that allows you to lock the target right before it enters warp, while trying to point it with a warp disruptor or such, but because of that delay it will warp away before the module activates... I recall a time when the delay was much smaller, but it's very visible now.... So whats the problem...? I often hear people call "point" when in fact they only just locked the target... only to see the target warp away a half second later... most often it's light ships that warp fast anyway like frigates... other times it's after a tackle has burned at a target that was aligning out... The problem is not actually that people call point before the target is pointed, but that they were used to the fact that the target was pointed when the target was locked... I am aware that this game is "tick" based, and that's the main reason for this problem, but what if you made "prefired points" server sided? so they actually activated the same "tick" as you locked the target.
Rahnim Ministry of War Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.04.24 13:02:00 - [2] - Quote Aman brother, it's annoying when it happens. basicly if you lock a frigate in 2 sec, and the frigate has a 2.9sec align time, it will be basicly im possible to point him :), because the module takes a full extra second to activae after you locked the target...! I have myself experienced locking frigates with a less than 1 sec lock time, and still failed to get them painted because they had a align time of about 2+ sec... I would get a lock on them most of the time, but the point would never activate before they had already warped away.
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 237	Posted - 2012.04.24 13:10:00 - [3] - Quote So, I was thinking, could more poeple confirm they experienced this annoying delay? and how many would agree they want it optimized to "happen less" ?
Savage Creampuff Ion Corp. 9	Posted - 2012.04.24 13:28:00 - [4] - Quote heat the mod before or while locking? assuming you have nobody else locked
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 237	Posted - 2012.04.24 13:36:00 - [5] - Quote Savage Creampuff wrote: heat the mod before or while locking? assuming you have nobody else locked Both in attempts where it was "heated" before locking, and after locking, but even then... if that was the problem, they should optimize the "heated" modules
Raiz Nhell DEEP CORPS 96	Posted - 2012.04.24 13:42:00 - [6] - Quote I think it's called "lag" and it happens to the best of us... I'm so carebear my Pod bleeds rainbow... Beers + nullsec + dodgy fit = Loss mail
Banjo String Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.04.24 13:50:00 - [7] - Quote You dont need to 'heat' the module before locking. just click the module to activate it, then start locking - or start locknig and activate the module before the lock finishes. In either case, so long as the odule is queued up to activate before the lock finishes it should activate on the target as soon as the lock ends. I've never had any problems with it taking a second longer after the lock is gained.
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 238	Posted - 2012.04.24 13:54:00 - [8] - Quote Raiz Nhell wrote: I think it's called "lag" and it happens to the best of us... It's actually not really lag kind sir, it's the order in which the server handles the requests... it's the fact that the server runs in 1 sec ticks.... it's that fact that first.. the your client tells the server that you want to lock a ship... it then does that.... afterwards the server tells your client you have now locked the target... and then the your client tells the server it wants to activate the point... which happens 1 sec later, instead of on the same server tick I talked to GM's about it before, I bug reported it and everything and had another thread about it long ago... nothing has happened about it since then, and I can safely assume most had forgotten about it... well I also frapsed 2 videos with me demonstrating the problem together with a old corp mate... links are below... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VtsnhAomJs first example, I found that it happened often when I had about 1200-1400 scan res vs a rifter with 2x tech 1 nanofibers... back then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPrAk0hXpgI in this second video I am using an 1800+ Scan res cynabal... I started locking the frigate half a second after it became visable, managed to get a lock on it, and it then warped away... Note that I did not activate the warp disruptor until after I started locking it...and it is clearly flashing grey... Of cause these rifters were fitted for high agility, and not every single ship is fitted like that, but it clearly demonstrates the problem... Pre fired modules should be made server sided so the server actives the modules when the target is locked on the same server tick... and no on the next server tick
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 238	Posted - 2012.04.24 13:56:00 - [9] - Quote Banjo String wrote: You dont need to 'heat' the module before locking. just click the module to activate it, then start locking - or start locking and activate the module before the lock finishes. In either case, so long as the odule is queued up to activate before the lock finishes it should activate on the target as soon as the lock ends. I've never had any problems with it taking a second longer after the lock is gained. Look at my videos, they will confirm the problems, and by "heat" it means prefired, activated before the locking finishes or before you even begin locking ;) also, as I said, it's not a problem when the target isn't warping fast enough + you still have high enough scan res... But even in examples of bigger ships trying to tackle bigger ships, this can happen.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE 566	Posted - 2012.04.24 14:05:00 - [10] - Quote If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story. shiptoastin' liek a baws

Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 238	Posted - 2012.04.24 14:08:00 - [11] - Quote Misanth wrote: If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story. I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 239	Posted - 2012.04.24 14:21:00 - [12] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRQ7yF4a4dg here is the video I just uploaded... while editing the video, I zoomed in and looked frame by frame, at 4:04-05 I finish locking the "item" with a prefired warp disruptor... the warp disruptor is not activated until 5:05... That is 1 full second later, also known as 1 server tick later.. like I said, it has nothing to do with lag, it's simply the way the server handles requests, go try it yourself... Now, call it a problem or not, that's up to yourself, and what kind of PvP you use it for (it's not a problem when doing industry, mining, missioning or any other kind of PvE)... it's not a big problem when your not trying to catch fast stuff... :) but it's clearly a problem when you are... 1 second is a very long time, specially after considering locking time also... Well, anyway... look at that video, and tell me what you think, and replicate it... and tell me it doesn't happen to you... and if it doesn't happen, then fraps it and show me, because from experience it's like this for everyone
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE 566	Posted - 2012.04.24 14:41:00 - [13] - Quote Bubanni wrote: Misanth wrote: If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story. I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+ Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc. The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different.. TL;DR we have to suck it up. Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible. shiptoastin' liek a baws
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 247	Posted - 2012.04.24 15:33:00 - [14] - Quote Misanth wrote: Bubanni wrote: Misanth wrote: If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story. I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+ Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc. The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different.. TL;DR we have to suck it up. Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible. :) Well, what I am talking about is nothing to do with what your talking about here... the module doesn't even activate on client side until a full second later, same thing server side... there is no difference there the second the warp disruption icon is visable on the "locked ships" is when they are pointed, and they wont be warping away unless they have warp stabs (unless in rare cases, like what you are talking about, where they are desynced)... no this is an entirely different problem... it's that the module does not even try to activate until after the ship is locked, and it then takes an additional server tick before that happens, this is what I want changed... :) TL;DR... no, not what I was talking about, and module should activate instantly when you locked the target (same server tick, not a second later)
Mark Androcius 40	Posted - 2012.04.24 15:41:00 - [15] - Quote Easy fix, click the scrambler before targeting and then click the intended target, this makes it work the instant you have lock, no lag at all. Yes i am dutch, no i don't do drugs.
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 247	Posted - 2012.04.24 15:51:00 - [16] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: Easy fix, click the scrambler before targeting and then click the intended target, this makes it work the instant you have lock, no lag at all. Did you not just watch the video I linked? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRQ7yF4a4dg This one... which clearly shows it doesn't... :D now do you understand?
Mark Androcius 40	Posted - 2012.04.24 16:04:00 - [17] - Quote Bubanni wrote: Mark Androcius wrote: Easy fix, click the scrambler before targeting and then click the intended target, this makes it work the instant you have lock, no lag at all. Did you not just watch the video I linked? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRQ7yF4a4dg This one... which clearly shows it doesn't... :D now do you understand? Ouch, my bad, didn't see that one indeed. I never have that problem though, possibly an isp issue? Yes i am dutch, no i don't do drugs.
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 247	Posted - 2012.04.24 16:14:00 - [18] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: Bubanni wrote: Mark Androcius wrote: Easy fix, click the scrambler before targeting and then click the intended target, this makes it work the instant you have lock, no lag at all. Did you not just watch the video I linked? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRQ7yF4a4dg This one... which clearly shows it doesn't... :D now do you understand? Ouch, my bad, didn't see that one indeed. I never have that problem though, possibly an isp issue? Nope, for one, I live relatively close to the isp, I live close to the eve online server... super computer, good ping... you might think you don't have this problem... but really, go to something you can point or something, and try doing what I jyst did in the video... :) I bet you will notice that 1 sec delay too
Florestan Bronstein SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 522	Posted - 2012.04.24 16:37:00 - [19] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: Ouch, my bad, didn't see that one indeed. I never have that problem though, possibly an isp issue? Bubanni already explained the component that is most likely responsible for the observed behavior: the server-side simulation runs on 1 Hz. So it can take for up to a second for any action you take to be processed. For a demonstration of this effect let a large fleet jump through a gate: It's reasonable to assume that the timing at which people click the gate is pretty random, yet you'll see them flash in waves (with one second between them) as they jump. The server updates the state of the solar system once every second, so how EVE works is TICK status of the world is initialized players click things, odd timers run out, ... TICK server processes everything that has happened since the last tick and updates the status of the world The simulation runs at 1Hz for both you and the player you are trying to tackle. What happens is probably something like this Player A is sitting at one side of the gate, Player B at the other Player B hits jump TICK - Player B jumps into the system and loads grid Player B hits warp TICK Player B is now uncloaked and aligning towards his warp destination Player A hits Lock and activates his warp disruptor TICK Player A has started locking, Player B is still aligning Player A's locking timer runs out Player B has reached the velocity to start warp TICK now the server has to decide in which order to process these two actions. What Bubanni insinuates is that the order of precedence in which things that happened since the last TICK are processed may have changed - with (possibly unintended) side effects on gameplay. There are many plausible ways to establish an order of execution, e.g. * "tag everything that happens between ticks with a timestamp and execute actions in the same order they would have happened in continual time" * "let all competing actions roll dice against each other and perform the winner first" * "process commands in some fixed, arbitrary order, e.g. always process warp and movement commands before module activations because 'w' for warp comes after 'a' for activation in the alphabet" * "process commands in some fixed order that is based on performance criteria and designed with an eye towards graceful failure" (maybe it is more important to process warps before module activations to keep a 1000vs1000 lagfest playable and somewhat synced?) ... If all the Ifs and assumptions in this post are near the mark I would look for the culprit in the many performance optimizations during the last 1-2 years.
leich Nocturnal Romance 19	Posted - 2012.04.24 16:38:00 - [20] - Quote This has been an issue for a long time mabey 2 years. It does seem to have been made worse since last patch and the 'upgrade of the overview' really needs to be looked at as it makes quick aligning ships impossible to catch.

Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 250	Posted - 2012.04.24 20:56:00 - [21] - Quote actually not sure how long it's been a problem for now, but I do remmeber a time when I did not experience it... like I do now adays, regardless of it being something that was introduced by accident, I think CCP should improve this area
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 708	Posted - 2012.04.25 00:35:00 - [22] - Quote I haven't had any module lag. Wish I could help any...
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 250	Posted - 2012.04.25 06:09:00 - [23] - Quote Corina Jarr wrote: I haven't had any module lag. Wish I could help any... Could you perhaps make a video doing the same thing as I did? showing you don't have the 1 sec delay?... that would help
Roime Shiva Furnace 565	Posted - 2012.04.25 06:46:00 - [24] - Quote Yes, this should be fixed. ~ Elite forum PvP ~
CaptainFalcon07 Caucasian Culture Club Narwhals Ate My Duck 15	Posted - 2012.04.25 08:25:00 - [25] - Quote Your scram maybe on but the server has a short delay before it registers and sends info the target's client. To the target you haven't scrammed him. The server doesn't see it either. The nature of latency and serverside/client interfacing. Just like the Bullets in BF3 that curve around corner and kill you due to lag.
Othran Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 179	Posted - 2012.04.25 08:35:00 - [26] - Quote Bubanni wrote: actually not sure how long it's been a problem for now, but I do remmeber a time when I did not experience it... like I do now adays, regardless of it being something that was introduced by accident, I think CCP should improve this area It has been a problem since 2010 (just before Incursions IIRC) but something has made it worse in the last 6 months or so. The "workaround" was to lock them in space rather than overview (yes I know the overview lags a bit, that's not what I mean) with a pre-heated point. That doesn't seem to work now, not really been playing enough to say when it started.
Mark Androcius 41	Posted - 2012.04.25 09:04:00 - [27] - Quote The problem obviously is in the programming. The way it works now: you target someone - server gets your request - other persons client reacts. target locked - now scram is activated - server gets your request - other persons client reacts. The way it could/should work: you click the scram and then the target - server get your request and calculates how long this would take you before activating - other persons client gets this info and determines if it can outrun it or not. If not, scram works as intended, if he can he warps away. Yes i am dutch, no i don't do drugs.
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 250	Posted - 2012.04.25 09:48:00 - [28] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: The problem obviously is in the programming. The way it works now: you target someone - server gets your request - other persons client reacts. target locked - now scram is activated - server gets your request - other persons client reacts. The way it could/should work: you click the scram and then the target - server get your request and calculates how long this would take you before activating - other persons client gets this info and determines if it can outrun it or not. If not, scram works as intended, if he can he warps away. Exactly what I want, and what I am talking about
Mufa Jaynara Hedion University Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.04.25 10:44:00 - [29] - Quote CCP... will you loook into this? regardless of if you consider it a problem or not?... Regardlss of if it's always been like this, or if it was actually introduced with the incursion expansion (I think it was now that I think about it) If you are not going to do anything about it... then why is that? because your worried about stress on the server? too many man hours? or simply because you don't care, because most people are unaffected by this 1 sec delay?... Why havn't you done anything about it earlier when Bubanni has made you aware of it?...
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1152	Posted - 2012.04.25 11:10:00 - [30] - Quote Bubanni wrote: So, I was thinking, could more poeple confirm they experienced this annoying delay? and how many would agree they want it optimized to "happen less" ? When warp is already activated you can't use propulsion mods, target or simply shoot. About that "delay", it's an issue server/client, things are being done so much more information etc is client side and this is very good to effectively decrease server response = effects on your screen. A lot of stuff is still in need to be done and the greatest of them all, the one bringing a lot of lag server/client comes from that fecking overview ! - once all system, ships, names and whatsoever crap information is client side with a minimum server/client load this delay you are rightly talking about will be lower than now. It's already really good compared with a couple years ago and it will only become better. Be patient, create a specific petition and eventually ask escalation if you feel the answer is not enough clear to you. This "delay" is the result of a lot of stuff in this specific game design from 10 years ago, things are changing in a good way, well we can always discuss aesthetics but technically it's getting better for you.


CCP Paradox 150	Posted - 2012.04.25 11:35:00 - [31] - Quote Been watching this thread. Will talk with Tuxford about this behavior. I will let you guys know later what we discussed. CCP Paradox \| EVE Quality Assurance \| Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox

Miss Yanumano Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.04.25 11:43:00 - [32] - Quote Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it!
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1152	Posted - 2012.04.25 11:57:00 - [33] - Quote Miss Yanumano wrote: Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it! No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time. In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible). It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes. I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point.
Miss Yanumano Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.04.25 12:26:00 - [34] - Quote Tanya Powers wrote: Miss Yanumano wrote: Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it! No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time. In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible). It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes. I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point. I'm well versed in how software works or can work, I can say for my own part my Internet connection is very high end (100-1000Mbit, 20-30ms to Tranquility), and my computer is also high end, and I experience this all the time.
Ur235 Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 26	Posted - 2012.04.25 13:01:00 - [35] - Quote I would advise you to activate you scram right after you have locked that always works for me and I dnt have to rely on the server to activate the point as I do it manually hmm
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 274	Posted - 2012.04.25 13:50:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Paradox wrote: Been watching this thread. EDIT: Talked to some guys, I recommend you watch the EVE Keynote at Fanfest 2012. In particular, CCP Veritas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NEJbwZCgNgU#t=4565s Just knowing you guys have an eye on the thread sooths me :) Tanya Powers wrote: Miss Yanumano wrote: Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it! No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time. In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible). It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes. I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point. To me it seems like it's not overview related when you look at my first video, when i'm not even using the overview to target the structure Ur235 wrote: I would advise you to activate you scram right after you have locked that always works for me and I dnt have to rely on the server to activate the point as I do it manually I just experimented with trying to activate point exactly after the lock had been established right now, there was still a 1 sec delay from after I clicked, until the point was actually active. I did experience 1 time out of of my 10 attempts, that it seemed like the point actually activated right away, (the second I pressed the point) So I guess in those instances, it might depend on if your pressing right before a server tick, or right after... But regardless, I think the most optimal would be that the point is activated on the same server tick as the lock. (so the target is pointed the same second as you have a sucessful lock)
DelBoy Trades Trotter Independent Traders. 351	Posted - 2012.04.25 14:11:00 - [37] - Quote This is the reason people call "point" and then the prey warps off half a second later. Damn nature, you scary!
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 274	Posted - 2012.04.25 14:16:00 - [38] - Quote :P I should mention, that back when I was trying very hard last time to get CCP to do something about it, I also confirmed that the people we were testing it with.... confirmed they had in fact been yellow boxed, before warping away, while of cause the guy with the point had tried to activate point, even prefired it... :) It's that 1 sec that makes all the difference
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 275	Posted - 2012.04.26 10:20:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Paradox, that thing in the video... do you think that will help on that 1 sec the point (module) takes to activate? Correct me if i'm wrong, but will it begin processing the request the second it is pressed then? and what was the timeline for that improvement?, and again, from my side... doesn't it seem just as easy to make the module already "activated" server side, when it's prefired... but only take affect once the target is locked? thus being activated the second the target is locked?
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 277	Posted - 2012.04.29 19:35:00 - [40] - Quote Bump

Be4st CASCADE OF SPECTRES Comic Mischief 3	Posted - 2012.04.29 19:52:00 - [41] - Quote The delay has gotten worse over the past few months. My insta-locking Dramiel is no longer used as a tackle on camps because of this. I have missed so many ships due to the activation delay :(
Large Collidable Object morons. 1340	Posted - 2012.04.29 20:56:00 - [42] - Quote I've had similar problems fo quite some time - must have either slowly crept in or occured at a time when I was not really playing. I've also noticed some modules - especially faster cycling ones like guns - starting and ending their cycles quite far from the 6 o' clock position (so it starts with a quarter of the cycle completed and ends quite arbitrarily, which wasn't the case earlier iirc - I just can't nail the exact time when it started occuring because I was rather inactive for quite some time) . Concerning the activation delay after locking with a hot module, I remember about 4 years ago, there was a rumour that just locking and then activating the module the instant you have the lock would always have been faster in one of the corps I was in at the time - I mostly flew bigger stuff at the time, so didn't do much testing to really confirm it. You know... morons.
Starrakatt Z0MBIELAND Double Tap. 1	Posted - 2012.04.29 20:57:00 - [43] - Quote Happened to me a few times lately, I remember that point was more or less instataneous with lock not too long ago, but it happened to me twice today, shooting `POINT!` on comms when I got lock with pre-activated point (2800mm scan res lock Stiletto) just to see the target warp away... So yeah, maybe it worsened since last patch, don`t remember having issues with that in the past. Edit: Large Collidable Object wrote: I've also noticed some modules - especially faster cycling ones like guns - starting and ending their cycles quite far from the 6 o' clock position (so it starts with a quarter of the cycle completed and ends quite arbitrarily, which wasn't the case earlier iirc - I just can't nail the exact time when it started occuring because I was rather inactive for quite some time) . Looks like an old bug returning (I remember that from a while ago) or something new in relation with module activation delay/lag we are observing against lock time.
Sol Tertia EVE University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2012.04.29 21:51:00 - [44] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: The way it could/should work: you click the scram and then the target - server get your request and calculates how long this would take you before activating - other persons client gets this info and determines if it can outrun it or not. If not, scram works as intended, if he can he warps away. Rule 1 of MMORPG programming: Never trust the client. It would be convenient to do so in all sorts of situations, sadly it just leads to exploits so the server has to make the decision and tell both clients.
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 277	Posted - 2012.04.29 22:41:00 - [45] - Quote Sol Tertia wrote: Mark Androcius wrote: The way it could/should work: you click the scram and then the target - server get your request and calculates how long this would take you before activating - other persons client gets this info and determines if it can outrun it or not. If not, scram works as intended, if he can he warps away. Rule 1 of MMORPG programming: Never trust the client. It would be convenient to do so in all sorts of situations, sadly it just leads to exploits so the server has to make the decision and tell both clients. That's why I suggest that pre fired modules should be server side instead of just client side... It would solve the entire problem, at the cost of the servers doing 1 extra request while locking the target(s) That way the server could say the target is pointed if he hasn't warped before the lock is finished.
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 279	Posted - 2012.05.03 10:25:00 - [46] - Quote Bump
Deucaliona Penumbra Institute 1	Posted - 2012.07.01 00:50:00 - [47] - Quote I've noticed this issue alot in the last couple weeks. Happened to me again 10 minutes ago so thought id look around to see if someone was talking about it. Preactivated the point and get a lock. Start to call 'point' on comms then that changes to 'wtf' . 00:38:43 Notify Warp Disruptor II deactivates because its target, xxxxx, is not locked.
Maledictum Aideron Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2012.07.01 03:28:00 - [48] - Quote I think the recent patch brought this to the forefront but it has been a problem for a while. I've certainly noticed more in the last couple weeks.
Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 191	Posted - 2012.07.01 04:28:00 - [49] - Quote Bubanni wrote: Bump Stop that. The server has Always operated on 1s Ticks. This isn't new. The only solution to this would be for the server to operate at 2HZ (at which point you'd start complaining about the .5s module delay). The 1HZ server tick is not likely to change any time soon. -RubyPorto IB4TS
No More Heroes GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 770	Posted - 2012.07.01 08:09:00 - [50] - Quote Bubanni wrote: So, I was thinking, could more poeple confirm they experienced this annoying delay? and how many would agree they want it optimized to "happen less" ? Have experienced this many times. If I have you locked, I activate disruptor, you aren't in warp yet, you shouldn't get away. Fix please. Basically anything frigate sized can escape to or from any gate unless dictors or dumbs are present. .

Sarah Podiene Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.01 11:42:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Paradox wrote: Been watching this thread. EDIT: Talked to some guys, I recommend you watch the EVE Keynote at Fanfest 2012. In particular, CCP Veritas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NEJbwZCgNgU#t=4565s He is not really talking about this particular problem. As mentioned before the problem with scrambling fast aligning ships is, that the server doesnt process the "finished locking" and "start scrambling" command on the same server tick. These are 1 second apart which means you always start scrambling (shooting, webbing etc) 1 second after you have locked the target even though you activated the modules before you locked the target. I understand that its probably a bit complicated/cpu intensive to check all pending commands server side to see if someone started locking and activated his modules before the target was locked to start the module the millisecond the locking is finished. I and probably everybody else could very well live with a compromise. If you activate a module (if its easier just do it for the scrambler and dont care about fixing the rest yet) while you have no targets locked and with the module waiting to activate (i.e. you have that crosshair like mouse with lines to the side and up/down) click on someone to target him, make this ONE command. Make a lock+scramble command which will be processed the millisecond the lock is finished. Its clear my modules are supposed to activate on that target i just clicked with the modules waiting. There's no reason to process that one command at different ticks... Please fix this, its been a huge annoyance for every inty pilot for ages now and its one of those little things that would improve gameplay. TL;DR: If you click with modules waiting for activation on someone to target and use that modules on him, merge the commands locking and start module together so they are processed at the same tick. (that would also make sure that the modules would activate on that target i clicked with them and not on something else i started locking later but finished locking earlier)
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 318	Posted - 2012.07.01 23:54:00 - [52] - Quote Sarah Podiene wrote: TL;DR: If you click with modules waiting for activation on someone to target and use that modules on him, merge the commands locking and start module together so they are processed at the same tick. (that would also make sure that the modules would activate on that target i clicked with them and not on something else i started locking later but finished locking earlier) This is exactly what I had been asking for :)
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 702	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:04:00 - [53] - Quote I've been getting this problem for as long as I've been trying to kill people, which is nearly two years. You lock a target, your warp disruption module is active but you don't get the warp scrambling message and the target warps off. It's incredibly annoying, but I assumed it was some normal function of warp disruptor modules that they didn't activate until part way through their cycle.

CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 529	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:12:00 - [54] - Quote Yeah, the stuff in my keynote presentation isn't really related to the OP. I haven't specifically looked at how pre-firing modules works, but I'm pretty sure it's all client-side processing today. I'm a fan of moving them server-side as y'all are talking about - not exactly a small change though. I'll talk to some folks and see where it might land on the List o' Stuff To Do. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software

Lucy Ferrr Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 105	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:14:00 - [55] - Quote Yes I have also noticed the one sec or so delay when pre-firing your guns/mod. It never used to be that bad, it was nearly instant, or quick enough it appeared instant. I have found by not pre-firing my guns you can get rid of most of that 1 sec delay. Soon as you lock the target hit your F1-8 key and the mod/gun will near instantly due what it's supposed to.
Speaker4 theDead Phantom Squad Industry Nulli Tertius 6	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:14:00 - [56] - Quote It's called introducing lag to make up for sloppy coding....
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 320	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:40:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: Yeah, the stuff in my keynote presentation isn't really related to the OP. I haven't specifically looked at how pre-firing modules works, but I'm pretty sure it's all client-side processing today. I'm a fan of moving them server-side as y'all are talking about - not exactly a small change though. I'll talk to some folks and see where it might land on the List o' Stuff To Do. I love you!
adam smash University of Caille Gallente Federation 102	Posted - 2012.07.02 01:39:00 - [58] - Quote Tanya Powers wrote: Miss Yanumano wrote: Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it! No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time. In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible). It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes. I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point. Talking about speed as if it matters for lat... full of fail. You need what maybe 56k for eve? Why waste your time anyway... they will never fix this your going to end up making this a feature (like TIDI) Get the ******* UI fixed first (ROLL BACK)
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 322	Posted - 2012.07.02 01:46:00 - [59] - Quote adam smash wrote: Tanya Powers wrote: Miss Yanumano wrote: Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it! No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time. In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible). It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes. I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point. Talking about speed as if it matters for lat... full of fail. You need what maybe 56k for eve? Why waste your time anyway... they will never fix this your going to end up making this a feature (like TIDI) Get the ******* UI fixed first (ROLL BACK) Wouldn't mind it as a "feature" as it will make a huge game inpact in pvp... within the last year I am counting hundreds upon hundreds of ships that would have been caught and killed by me and my fleets if it wasn't because of this "issue" :) so if my favorite Dev manages to convince the others to change this, I can promis you it will directly impact alot of eve... More ships will be caught and killed, this will both happen at gates and in open space (intercepters intercepting ships accross a distance, like vs a sniper and manageing to get a quick point before it warps) more ships being caught and killed = more market activity as people will have to buy new ones... win win
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke 273	Posted - 2012.07.02 01:52:00 - [60] - Quote something i was wondering about the other day would it be possible to use some of the tidi tech to decrease the time between ticks when the server is running on low load without slowing down the actual time ?

Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet 217	Posted - 2012.07.02 02:33:00 - [61] - Quote This is a MAJOR issue for people in Australia. It has gotten to the point where a number of corp/fellow FW militia pilots from Australia and other such locations do not fly tackle, even if they are better skilled - they go DPS etc... and let people closer to the server (i.e. people who live in the UK) do the tackle. Doing a roam the other night we had a Navy Omen guy from the UK getting point before guys from Australia in frigates could. This was even with the module pre-locked. I also have the issue where the pre-locked module unlocks when spamming the lock button due to a targets invul blocking the lock... Why won't CCP fix the ongoing FW issues? Fix the speed tanking of plexes CCP Sreegs - I'm just Winston Wolf
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 323	Posted - 2012.07.02 02:41:00 - [62] - Quote Har Harrison wrote: This is a MAJOR issue for people in Australia. It has gotten to the point where a number of corp/fellow FW militia pilots from Australia and other such locations do not fly tackle, even if they are better skilled - they go DPS etc... and let people closer to the server (i.e. people who live in the UK) do the tackle. Doing a roam the other night we had a Navy Omen guy from the UK getting point before guys from Australia in frigates could. This was even with the module pre-locked. I also have the issue where the pre-locked module unlocks when spamming the lock button due to a targets invul blocking the lock... That's a different issue, but an issue non the less, I live very close to the servers and have a decent ping Hmm or rather... its a lag issue + this issue a have been talking about for you guys... fixing my issue will improve your issue and thus reduce your problem with lag in tackling
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 96	Posted - 2012.07.02 02:59:00 - [63] - Quote not so related but now that people mentions it.... the invul timer for when warping away and in, should be reduced or removed, either way at the speed ships move on those phases is unlikely u can do much against them.
Mors Sanctitatis Death of Virtue 715	Posted - 2012.07.02 04:39:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: Yeah, the stuff in my keynote presentation isn't really related to the OP. I haven't specifically looked at how pre-firing modules works, but I'm pretty sure it's all client-side processing today. I'm a fan of moving them server-side as y'all are talking about - not exactly a small change though. I'll talk to some folks and see where it might land on the List o' Stuff To Do. A while back (it's been so long ago, I can't remember when exactly), you could actually "pre-fire" modules, priming them, and then locking a target and it would activate the modules properly when lock was achieved and all was well. Then, for some reason, it broke and no longer worked. Afterwards, players had to begin the lock process and THEN prime the module in order for it to work. If it is going to be extremely difficult to increase the server tick rate resolution and/or move everything server side and fix the problem, allow me to make another suggestion: increase the time to warp of every ship in the game so that the absolute best time to warp for any ship in the game is at a minimum of 50% greater than the existing resolution. If the existing tick rate is 1 second, then the minimum time to warp should be 1.5 seconds. Scale all other time to warp for all other ships accordingly so that all warp speeds remain relative. Additionally, all scan resolutions and modules applying scan resolution bonuses will have to be adjusted as well. While this may be a crude and 'brute force' way of doing things, I think that it provides the most durable solution in that it can take into account the most real world deviation and builds in an additional factor of safety. Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED.
Nikodiemus Jokulhlaup 36	Posted - 2012.07.02 05:34:00 - [65] - Quote Mark Androcius wrote: The problem obviously is in the programming. The way it works now: you target someone - server gets your request - other persons client reacts. target locked - now scram is activated - server gets your request - other persons client reacts. The way it could/should work: you click the scram and then the target - server get your request and calculates how long this would take you before activating - other persons client gets this info and determines if it can outrun it or not. If not, scram works as intended, if he can he warps away. No no no and no. Your example of how it "should" work leaves out so many steps in its implementation that it boggles my mind to even try and point out all the flaws. Citing this lame pseudo code jargon only hurts the point the OP is trying to make. Module delay is a very important factor in the overall Gameplay/lag-component of Eve Online. This is why time dilation is actually a big step forward and a great help for large fleet fights That being said, singular events that prevent small scale module activation within a second of the confirmation are so low on the "need fixing scale" I am amazed you are even bothering here. This is a TINY problem if there even is one, and from watching your vids and having the experience I have, I still believe it is an item that should be low on CCP's list of "**** to fix".
Molinator Agnon Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.07.02 08:52:00 - [66] - Quote I gave feedback about this issue in the last EVE survey I responded to - it annoys the hell out of me as well. Lag frustrates me, but it gets exponentially frustrating when you're doing something that requires quick reactions - be that pointing a fast frigate, attempting to deactivate modules for ammo switches or the like. This is my #1 gripe with EVE Online at the moment, and I think it would make EVE a lot more "playable" and appealing if server response times were reduced.
VanDam Caldari Provisions Caldari State 6	Posted - 2012.07.02 08:53:00 - [67] - Quote That is why I drag my disruptor to a high slot and press F2 as soon as I have target lock. Quicker than a pre-activation.
Molinator Agnon Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.07.02 09:05:00 - [68] - Quote DelBoy Trades wrote: This is the reason people call "point" and then the prey warps off half a second later. And also the reason why this issue should be one of the biggest priorities for the Devs - decrease the server "tic" and increase the level of competition in this game. When server tics are much longer than human reaction time (~200ms), the playing field gives huge handicaps to players that might be able to react more quickly and combat becomes much less exciting.
Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 213	Posted - 2012.07.02 09:11:00 - [69] - Quote Molinator Agnon wrote: DelBoy Trades wrote: This is the reason people call "point" and then the prey warps off half a second later. And also the reason why this issue should be one of the biggest priorities for the Devs - decrease the server "tic" and increase the level of competition in this game. When server tics are much longer than human reaction time (~200ms), the playing field gives huge handicaps to players that might be able to react more quickly and combat becomes much less exciting. I'm Ok with EvE not being a twitch fighter game. Your reflexes and the length of your OODA loop still have an enormous effect on your combat abilities. Especially in smaller hulls. -RubyPorto IB4TS
Molinator Agnon Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.07.02 10:33:00 - [70] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Molinator Agnon wrote: DelBoy Trades wrote: This is the reason people call "point" and then the prey warps off half a second later. And also the reason why this issue should be one of the biggest priorities for the Devs - decrease the server "tic" and increase the level of competition in this game. When server tics are much longer than human reaction time (~200ms), the playing field gives huge handicaps to players that might be able to react more quickly and combat becomes much less exciting. I'm Ok with (in fact, I prefer) EvE not being a twitch fighter game. Your reflexes and the length of your OODA loop still have an enormous effect on your combat abilities. Especially in smaller hulls. Quicker reactions should always be a valid way to defeat an enemy in a game that supposes to be played in real time - but as it stands currently, EVE is not real time but more of a second by second turn-based game. I don't think EVE will ever be a twitch fighter where reaction time is the biggest factor in victory - but I think it's wrong to handicap players who are entirely capable of reacting more quickly the ability to do so because of the server tick. Combat in general would be vastly improved if server performance improved to the same level as a MOBA (or FPS) match, and I would hope that this would be a goal of CCP's. I know this is made difficult or nearly impossible by the fact that it is a single shard, but I can honestly say (without a shred malice - this universe is amazing) that I will lose interest in EVE if server performance is not addressed in the future. So it's reassuring to already see two CCP posts here. I'm very passionate about this issue because I think EVE has vast amounts of potential for improvement of small scale player vs player combat if there was a lot less of "Please wait..." and second-long delays on module activation.

Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 213	Posted - 2012.07.02 10:37:00 - [71] - Quote Molinator Agnon wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Molinator Agnon wrote: DelBoy Trades wrote: This is the reason people call "point" and then the prey warps off half a second later. And also the reason why this issue should be one of the biggest priorities for the Devs - decrease the server "tic" and increase the level of competition in this game. When server tics are much longer than human reaction time (~200ms), the playing field gives huge handicaps to players that might be able to react more quickly and combat becomes much less exciting. I'm Ok with (in fact, I prefer) EvE not being a twitch fighter game. Your reflexes and the length of your OODA loop still have an enormous effect on your combat abilities. Especially in smaller hulls. Quicker reactions should always be a valid way to defeat an enemy in a game that supposes to be played in real time - but as it stands currently, EVE is not real time but more of a second by second turn-based game. I don't think EVE will ever be a twitch fighter where reaction time is the biggest factor in victory - but I think it's wrong to handicap players who are entirely capable of reacting more quickly the ability to do so because of the server tick. Combat in general would be vastly improved if server performance improved to the same level as a MOBA (or FPS) match, and I would hope that this would be a goal of CCP's. I know this is made difficult or nearly impossible by the fact that it is a single shard, but I can honestly say (without a shred malice - this universe is amazing) that I will lose interest in EVE if server performance is not addressed in the future. So it's reassuring to already see two CCP posts here. I'm very passionate about this issue because I think EVE has vast amounts of potential for improvement of small scale player vs player combat if there was a lot less of "Please wait..." and second-long delays on module activation. Right now, in big fleet fights, the server takes 10-20s to complete the calculations it needs to for each tick (this is what TiDi does). Speeding up the ticks to a FPS-like ~30HZ would mean that, for each second of IF elapsed time, the server would spend 300-600s to complete the calculations. Increasing the server granularity would TiDi all of the hamsters until they died. -RubyPorto IB4TS
Rellik B00n Lethal Death Squad 144	Posted - 2012.07.02 10:47:00 - [72] - Quote +1 to OP I often run in a cruiser with over 3500 scan res. I lock everything in a very very short period of time and a large number manage to warp out without my modules activating. qfmjt-1
Hemmo Paskiainen Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities 334	Posted - 2012.07.02 11:16:00 - [73] - Quote It is the same with smartbombs. They have it more worse, my bug petition about it got an answere that i need to figur out why. It is also the same reson why some smartbombs miss their cycle and some cycles do no damage at all..... Logs show nothing though... CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS
Deucaliona Penumbra Institute 2	Posted - 2012.07.02 11:53:00 - [74] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Bubanni wrote: Bump Stop that. The server has Always operated on 1s Ticks. This isn't new. The only solution to this would be for the server to operate at 2HZ (at which point you'd start complaining about the .5s module delay). The 1HZ server tick is not likely to change any time soon. If this is operating at 1 tick a second, why does the lock and module activation not happen in exactly the same tick? Since we are using the module for the lock anyway.
Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 214	Posted - 2012.07.02 11:57:00 - [75] - Quote Deucaliona wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Bubanni wrote: Bump Stop that. The server has Always operated on 1s Ticks. This isn't new. The only solution to this would be for the server to operate at 2HZ (at which point you'd start complaining about the .5s module delay). The 1HZ server tick is not likely to change any time soon. If this is operating at 1 tick a second, why does the lock and module activation not happen in exactly the same tick? Since we are using the module for the lock anyway. So the tick is broken into 2 parts. Part 1: Server is processing requests and deciding what happens due to those requests. Part 2: The Server is telling the clients what happened. Pre-activating a module tells your client that you want it to activate as soon as you're locked on target. So, as soon as the Client hears back from the server that it has a lock, it fires back with the module activation. So the module activates on the tick after the lock. -RubyPorto IB4TS
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 328	Posted - 2012.07.02 12:09:00 - [76] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Deucaliona wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Bubanni wrote: Bump Stop that. The server has Always operated on 1s Ticks. This isn't new. The only solution to this would be for the server to operate at 2HZ (at which point you'd start complaining about the .5s module delay). The 1HZ server tick is not likely to change any time soon. If this is operating at 1 tick a second, why does the lock and module activation not happen in exactly the same tick? Since we are using the module for the lock anyway. So the tick is broken into 2 parts. Part 1: Server is processing requests and deciding what happens due to those requests. Part 2: The Server is telling the clients what happened. Pre-activating a module tells your client that you want it to activate as soon as you're locked on target. So, as soon as the Client hears back from the server that it has a lock, it fires back with the module activation. So the module activates on the tick after the lock. which takes exactly 1 sec + locking time (so fastest possible will be 2 sec to lock and point a frigate) which is too long to catch many frigates
Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 215	Posted - 2012.07.02 12:51:00 - [77] - Quote Bubanni wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Deucaliona wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: Bubanni wrote: Bump Stop that. The server has Always operated on 1s Ticks. This isn't new. The only solution to this would be for the server to operate at 2HZ (at which point you'd start complaining about the .5s module delay). The 1HZ server tick is not likely to change any time soon. If this is operating at 1 tick a second, why does the lock and module activation not happen in exactly the same tick? Since we are using the module for the lock anyway. So the tick is broken into 2 parts. Part 1: Server is processing requests and deciding what happens due to those requests. Part 2: The Server is telling the clients what happened. Pre-activating a module tells your client that you want it to activate as soon as you're locked on target. So, as soon as the Client hears back from the server that it has a lock, it fires back with the module activation. So the module activates on the tick after the lock. which takes exactly 1 sec + locking time (so fastest possible will be 2 sec to lock and point a frigate) which is too long to catch many frigates Never said anything different. Problem is that fixing it either requires trusting the client or adding potentially significant load to the server. Neither option is good. -RubyPorto IB4TS
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 398	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:14:00 - [78] - Quote This small "lag" stuff is happening to me now on many other modules than only scram/TP stuff, missiles used to "shoot" at the beginning of cycle, now it's more about the end of it, same for shield boosters, usually starts rep at the beginning of cycle but now I can clearly see the effect happen only after 50/70% of cycle, armor effect of actual rep cycle apply rep effect at the beginning of next cycle, looks awkward. brb

CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 535	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:16:00 - [79] - Quote You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software

Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 217	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:26:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) A Dev blog detailing how it works would be awesome. (Could you also detail how aligning works, so we can finally put to rest the idea of a passive align, pretty please?) -RubyPorto IB4TS

Othran Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 208	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:27:00 - [81] - Quote If you pre-activate a module then lock, the only logical way of doing what should really be happening (but isn't) is merging the "activations" at the server. The pre-activation occurs on one tick and the lock on another - maybe command-queuing would be a better description than "merging", I dunno. eg the scram is pre-activated for a couple of seconds then you lock up a target - this should result in the target/targeter being notified he's been scrammed as soon as the period where lock completed "ticks" over. The lock notification should be implied by the completed scram, it shouldn't need another tick. I don't envy whoever recodes that so that its reliable and not exploitable but I'll come test it on sisi if you do make the change. I suspect a lot of others feel the same.
Lin-Young Borovskova Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 398	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:28:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) Yes please brb
Othran Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 208	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:41:00 - [83] - Quote For anyone who hasn't been fast tackle this probably seems utterly trivial. For anyone who has played "fastest finger first" for the gang its incredibly frustrating, no matter what the setup.
Khanh'rhh 1371	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:49:00 - [84] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) A Dev blog detailing how it works would be awesome. (Could you also detail how aligning works, so we can finally put to rest the idea of a passive align, pretty please?) It's already very very very very very well documented how aligning works, another dev blog on it won't help people who haven't taken the time to read the existing material on it, just like all the people who think "aggressive" drones will aggress can flippers. They're myths spread by well intentioned but ill-informed people sitting in help channels offering advice. E: I would support a resolution on this issue, it is actually really annoying to be told you have a point and then not. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's
Bienator II madmen of the skies 782	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:51:00 - [85] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) any chance to increase the heartbeat? Server could fall back to the slower beat when under load. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked
Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 217	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:51:00 - [86] - Quote Khanh'rhh wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) A Dev blog detailing how it works would be awesome. (Could you also detail how aligning works, so we can finally put to rest the idea of a passive align, pretty please?) It's already very very very very very well documented how aligning works, another dev blog on it won't help people who haven't taken the time to read the existing material on it, just like all the people who think "aggressive" drones will aggress can flippers. They're myths spread by well intentioned but ill-informed people sitting in help channels offering advice. E: I would support a resolution on this issue, it is actually really annoying. I know that it's well documented. But being able to link a DevBlog and say "look you blistering barnacled baboon, here's exactly how it works, straight from the horse's mouth" would be nice for some of the denser people who cling tight to they're myth. -RubyPorto IB4TS
Molinator Agnon Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:53:00 - [87] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Right now, in big fleet fights, the server takes 10-20s to complete the calculations it needs to for each tick (this is what TiDi does). Speeding up the ticks to a FPS-like ~30HZ would mean that, for each second of IF elapsed time, the server would spend 300-600s to complete the calculations. Increasing the server granularity would TiDi all of the hamsters until they died. Right, but as was mentioned before, there might be a way to do some reverse tidi to decrease latency during times of low-load, when grids are small and objects few. Anyways, I'd be very very interested in a dev blog on this to at least get some better info, and also to hopefully ease my mind that the future EVE might be a bit more snappy.

CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 536	Posted - 2012.07.02 13:54:00 - [88] - Quote Bienator II wrote: CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) any chance to increase the heartbeat? Server could fall back to the slower beat when under load. It's possible that we'd increase the Destiny update rate at some point. We'd still use TiDi as the overload mechanism though, switching update rates on the fly is just unnecessarily complicated. What is this aligning myth y'all are talking about? I must be out of the loop on that one. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software

Cebraio Starfire Oasis 98	Posted - 2012.07.02 14:14:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) Isn't that covered here already? I remember when I read it back then, I found it very informative. Didn't read it today though. Maybe it's not what you had in mind.
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 330	Posted - 2012.07.02 14:35:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: Bienator II wrote: CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) any chance to increase the heartbeat? Server could fall back to the slower beat when under load. It's possible that we'd increase the Destiny update rate at some point. We'd still use TiDi as the overload mechanism though, switching update rates on the fly is just unnecessarily complicated. What is this aligning myth y'all are talking about? I must be out of the loop on that one. Increased tick rate (when servers allow it) would be nice too, I would personly be happy with prefired modules being server sided... But increased tick rate would improve the feel of eve by alot I think, more specificly in actions like accelerating, turning your ship... basic manuvering :P like stopping your ship too... all that would react faster then? But I bet that would be much more work than "simply" making prefired modules activated on lock. Just currious though... have you guys experimented before with making the tick rate of "Destiny" faster?, I mean, say it was 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec... does that increase the load of the servers by 100%? would the servers even be able to finish all the operations? or wouldn't it be able to finish the database queries faster, and thus relieve some stress? That is something I would be interrested to hear about also in your dev blog if you make one soon :)

Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore 89	Posted - 2012.07.02 14:47:00 - [91] - Quote I've been on both sides of the coin on this one. I've been locked by ceptors at close range, thought "I'm screwed," then my ship warps off. I've also been on the locking side, both with fast lock/tackle and with alpha fleets. One second delays between locking and module activation are unbearably long when so many things in Eve can happen in the span on fractions of a second. Another fun one is warping out while the bubble effect is popping up. I assume this is also related to the 1 second tick rate?
Jarin Arenos Card Shark Industries 22	Posted - 2012.07.02 15:09:00 - [92] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: I know that it's well documented. But being able to link a DevBlog and say "look you blistering barnacled baboon, here's exactly how it works, straight from the horse's mouth" would be nice for some of the denser people who cling tight to they're myth. Or they could just link here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Aligning#.27Passive.27_Alignment

CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 538	Posted - 2012.07.02 16:24:00 - [93] - Quote Bubanni wrote: But increased tick rate would improve the feel of eve by alot I think, more specificly in actions like accelerating, turning your ship... basic manuvering :P like stopping your ship too... all that would react faster then? But I bet that would be much more work than "simply" making prefired modules activated on lock. Just currious though... have you guys experimented before with making the tick rate of "Destiny" faster?, I mean, say it was 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec... does that increase the load of the servers by 100%? would the servers even be able to finish all the operations? or wouldn't it be able to finish the database queries faster, and thus relieve some stress? That is something I would be interrested to hear about also in your dev blog if you make one soon :) - edit: This would also allow frigs to increase their survivability a bit, as they can then change alignment faster, and thus decrease the chance they get one shotted by a hurricane or other snipers Yeah, I've played around with it. It's really easy to change the update rate - it's just a number in a source code file. The effect it has on performance is non-trivial though. While it's not a straight linear increase because it doesn't change the amount of events that happen directly, it does increase the communication overhead and things like that. I'm hoping that we can get to a point with optimization where we can increase it a bit and see how things go. As you say, there's a lot of elements in the game that would benefit from smoother physics. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software


CCP Veritas C C P C C P Alliance 538	Posted - 2012.07.02 16:30:00 - [94] - Quote Cebraio wrote: CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) Isn't that covered here already? I remember when I read it back then, I found it very informative. Didn't read it today though. Maybe it's not what you had in mind. That covers things that are inside the tick quite well, but at least from my re-glance-over, doesn't touch the interaction between physics and systems like locking and modules. CCP Veritas - Senior Programmer - EVE Software

Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 330	Posted - 2012.07.02 16:30:00 - [95] - Quote CCP Veritas wrote: Bubanni wrote: But increased tick rate would improve the feel of eve by alot I think, more specificly in actions like accelerating, turning your ship... basic manuvering :P like stopping your ship too... all that would react faster then? But I bet that would be much more work than "simply" making prefired modules activated on lock. Just currious though... have you guys experimented before with making the tick rate of "Destiny" faster?, I mean, say it was 0.5 sec instead of 1 sec... does that increase the load of the servers by 100%? would the servers even be able to finish all the operations? or wouldn't it be able to finish the database queries faster, and thus relieve some stress? That is something I would be interrested to hear about also in your dev blog if you make one soon :) - edit: This would also allow frigs to increase their survivability a bit, as they can then change alignment faster, and thus decrease the chance they get one shotted by a hurricane or other snipers Yeah, I've played around with it. It's really easy to change the update rate - it's just a number in a source code file. The effect it has on performance is non-trivial though. While it's not a straight linear increase because it doesn't change the amount of events that happen directly, it does increase the communication overhead and things like that. I'm hoping that we can get to a point with optimization where we can increase it a bit and see how things go. As you say, there's a lot of elements in the game that would benefit from smoother physics. Like I said last time... I LOVE YOU!
Khanh'rhh 1371	Posted - 2012.07.02 18:56:00 - [96] - Quote Pipa Porto wrote: Khanh'rhh wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: CCP Veritas wrote: You guys are giving me a good idea for a devblog 'cause it's clear the whole 1hz tick thing is confusing to some ;) A Dev blog detailing how it works would be awesome. (Could you also detail how aligning works, so we can finally put to rest the idea of a passive align, pretty please?) It's already very very very very very well documented how aligning works, another dev blog on it won't help people who haven't taken the time to read the existing material on it, just like all the people who think "aggressive" drones will aggress can flippers. They're myths spread by well intentioned but ill-informed people sitting in help channels offering advice. E: I would support a resolution on this issue, it is actually really annoying. I know that it's well documented. But being able to link a DevBlog and say "look you blistering barnacled baboon, here's exactly how it works, straight from the horse's mouth" would be nice for some of the denser people who cling tight to they're myth. You mean like the existing "here's exactly how it works" taken straight from the Official Evelopedia? ( http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Aligning ) Quote: There is no benefit to the ship and how long it takes to get into warp; in EVE, ships are modelled as vectors, and the actual orientation of the engines has no relevance to the direction in which thrust is applied. Therefore the time to warp when passive aligned is the same as if the ship were pointing in the opposite direction but stationary. Link that. If they won't believe that they won't believe anything. You don't need a dev reply every time someone patently refuses to see what is right in front of them. @Veritas - the "myth" is that having your ship stationary and pointed at something is "aligned" in some way, despite everything ever telling people this isn't how it works. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 96	Posted - 2012.07.02 19:23:00 - [97] - Quote Please give us a nice devblog and faster heartbeat! :D
Kristoffon Ellecon SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 46	Posted - 2012.07.02 22:33:00 - [98] - Quote I agree this is an important issue and would like to see it addressed as well.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet 217	Posted - 2012.07.03 03:09:00 - [99] - Quote Ager Agemo wrote: Please give us a nice devblog and faster heartbeat! :D Dammit Jim. I'm a doctor, not an engineer!!! Why won't CCP fix the ongoing FW issues? Fix the speed tanking of plexes CCP Sreegs - I'm just Winston Wolf
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 333	Posted - 2012.07.03 20:26:00 - [100] - Quote Veritas I was wondering what the eta of your dev blog might be?

Johnson Johnson Heretic University Heretic Nation 20	Posted - 2012.07.03 21:37:00 - [101] - Quote eve online is a turn based space strategy and always will be
Lelob ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 42	Posted - 2012.07.04 12:49:00 - [102] - Quote Fix this.
Sgt LoveDragon Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.07.09 02:31:00 - [103] - Quote Mhmm also greatly interested in this possibly being rectified. Nothign more annoying than calling point and watching that frigate warp off as it says in local something about fail. DEATH TO TEH FRIGATES -.-
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 341	Posted - 2012.07.10 21:22:00 - [104] - Quote Any news Veritas? What has other devs said about all this? How low priority did it get on the to do list? Eta on the blog you are going to make?
Po3tank Basgerin Pirate 8	Posted - 2012.07.14 10:34:00 - [105] - Quote bump! I just missed 3 frigs because of this issue
Homo Jesus The LGBT Last Supper 29	Posted - 2012.07.14 11:11:00 - [106] - Quote Any chance when you guys upgrade the hardware you can try to fix or at least tune this timing a bit better? It does cause you to miss point when 1 or 2 seconds count and wasn't an issue before the server timing thing or whatever changed it.
cBOLTSON Star Frontiers THORN Alliance 65	Posted - 2012.07.14 11:58:00 - [107] - Quote I have noticed this problem for a long time now. I dont recall it being so obvious in the past but this last year or so it is very evident. I too would like a CCP devblog on this overall issue with 1hz ticks. Also if it is possible to smooth out then DO IT!! =D "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn
Bubanni SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 364	Posted - 2012.07.23 00:44:00 - [108] - Quote Any news Veritas? Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 414	Posted - 2012.08.09 16:53:00 - [109] - Quote :3 would love to hear this thing being one of the things looked at for winter expansion (prefired modules being server sided) on a side note.... I noticed I can basicly bump into a cloaking ship before it cloaks on a gate, and then run directly past it (trying to lock it the entire time) and because I am too fast, it never gets decloaked as I enter the 2km radius and leave the 2km radius in much less than a sec... which because of the 1hz ticks registeres as me never having been within 2km of the cloaked ship... Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 423	Posted - 2012.08.16 10:54:00 - [110] - Quote check check Veritas? hows it going? :D you said you were doing a blog about this? do you think you can do something to improve this part of gameplay for christmas? Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Butzewutze Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2012.08.16 16:17:00 - [111] - Quote supported!
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 98	Posted - 2012.09.10 19:05:00 - [112] - Quote Bump, and yes veritas you still owe us the devblog and adrenaline shoot.
TRUE ZER0 SILENT INC 25	Posted - 2012.09.10 19:27:00 - [113] - Quote Misanth wrote: Bubanni wrote: Misanth wrote: If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story. I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+ Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc. The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different.. TL;DR we have to suck it up. Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible. Been along time, but have been victim of the phatom warp more than once. One time I was setting on a gate in my ship and I couldn't activate it. While complaining on comms, corpmate informed that he not only watched me lose the fight back on station but he has looking at my corpse has we were speaking. In before lock.
Qorvis Communications Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2012.09.11 04:15:00 - [114] - Quote Sgt LoveDragon wrote: Mhmm also greatly interested in this possibly being rectified. Nothign more annoying than calling point and watching that frigate warp off as it says in local something about fail. DEATH TO TEH FRIGATES -.- awesome avatar
GOTMYEYEONYOU Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2012.09.11 04:43:00 - [115] - Quote TRUE ZER0 wrote: Misanth wrote: Bubanni wrote: Misanth wrote: If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story. I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+ Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc. The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different.. TL;DR we have to suck it up. Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible. Been along time, but have been victim of the phatom warp more than once. One time I was setting on a gate in my ship and I couldn't activate it. While complaining on comms, corpmate informed that he not only watched me lose the fight back on station but he has looking at my corpse has we were speaking. i too have been victim of the phantom warp
GOTMYEYEONYOU Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2012.09.11 05:01:00 - [116] - Quote TRUE ZER0 wrote: Misanth wrote: Bubanni wrote: Misanth wrote: If your client tell you your modules have activate on a target, but they still warp off/no effect, then it's quite likely their client hasn't gotten that information. I.e. there's traffic between your client, server, his client. What you 'see' hasn't necessarily happened. Quite likely in fact, it hasn't. Whatever the server processes is the truth, whatever your client shows, is just your side of the story. I am about to upload a video that shows the problem... give me a few min, it's not that the client tells you that you have warp disrupted the target... it's that it takes so long before it does... :) anyway, look back in about 15 mins+ Everyone knows this man, my post was in half-jest. It's the same as when I warped off a gate with no hostiles on it, then (while in warp) I got teleported back to the gate I came from, killed and podded. My client told me I warped off the gate 30 seconds before I was teleported back. Logs (obv clientside) shows me I initiated warp 30sec+ before I even got damage notifications. We were less than 50 people in local, they were ~20-25 landing on the gate and we were 4-5 leaving it. No visible lag, no module delays, etc. The non-jest part in my post is this; your client tells you ALOT of stuff, and sometimes impossible/should-not-happen stuff happens. Like me being teleported back, half a minute after my sub 4 sec align time ship had told me it was warping. Like when your modules tell you they are activated, you even see them run a full cycle or start a second, at times, and yet they seem to have no effect. But in the end, what matters, is what the server says. CCP cannot check what our clients tells us, it's unreasonable and the workload for GM's would be immense, and so much potential for players to try cheat themselves into reimbursements. So when the server tells CCP that our modules did not activate, or that targets was out of range, even tho we saw something different.. TL;DR we have to suck it up. Players don't want this to happen, CCP don't want this to happen, but you won't be able to "fix" this, and this is one of the rare cases I actually trust CCP will try to make this as good as possible. Been along time, but have been victim of the phatom warp more than once. One time I was setting on a gate in my ship and I couldn't activate it. While complaining on comms, corpmate informed that he not only watched me lose the fight back on station but he has looking at my corpse has we were speaking. This has happened to me as well. For some reason, this conversation seems familiar.
Gypsio III Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 340	Posted - 2012.09.11 08:18:00 - [117] - Quote Gate camping is a terrible mechanic, don't fix this.
Doddy Excidium. Executive Outcomes 135	Posted - 2012.09.11 08:47:00 - [118] - Quote Bubanni wrote: :3 would love to hear this thing being one of the things looked at for winter expansion (prefired modules being server sided) on a side note.... I noticed I can basicly bump into a cloaking ship before it cloaks on a gate, and then run directly past it (trying to lock it the entire time) and because I am too fast, it never gets decloaked as I enter the 2km radius and leave the 2km radius in much less than a sec... which because of the 1hz ticks registeres as me never having been within 2km of the cloaked ship... Been the cov ops in this situation a few times, mr interceptor flying right through me and out the otherside without decloaking me. Of course i loved it at the time ....
Bubanni ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 434	Posted - 2012.09.11 09:13:00 - [119] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Gate camping is a terrible mechanic, don't fix this. THis doesnt only affect gate camping.... It's all tackling everywhere Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Cede Forster 70	Posted - 2012.09.11 10:38:00 - [120] - Quote just to make sure i really got this Client(1) to Server: Lock target Client(2) to Server: Warp to X - Tick 1- Server to Client(1). Target locked Server to Client(2): Ship flight vector set - End Tick 1- Client to Server(1): Activate module on target (regardless if you click the module on the target or manual do after target lock) -Tick 2- Server to Client(2): Warp initiated, dropping all target locks Server to Client(1): No target lock exists, module can not be activated -End Tick 2- I am just guessing here, but the server will simply check if the warp conditions are met before any input because the warp command is stored server side(therefore is the first in the list, rest is sorted by the time they reached the server), the activate module command is stored client side? If that is the case, you can not catch a ship once the "align time" is below 2 seconds, it could be adjusted so the "warp initiate" stays server side but is processed at the end, the result would be that all ships would be caught, independent of their align time as long you lock them as fast as they set warp only way to solve it is to save the "warp command" and the "tackle command" server side with the time stamp of the original order issued, have the server calculate seperatly when the command should be valid (align time, lock time) and sort the events by it? does not sound like a easy fix

Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 491	Posted - 2012.09.11 11:01:00 - [121] - Quote me and few other noticed this extra delay arrive after a patch last summer. The months after we noticed people calling point and watching their "pointed" target ship warp off time and time again, one person did it so often he actually had the problem named after him, "pulling a kiki" (kiki le'boautier). We raised the issue at the time and filled a few petitions to be told that we were dreaming and that its lag, despite the obvious fact that we have been playing for many years and suddenly all have the same problem. We guessed it was an extra line of code going to the target ships client to check its online before making the point work or something along those lines, since sebo'ed HICs were catching all but the very fasted frigs, well whatever was changed it made it barely possible to catch even slow frigs. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Bubanni ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 434	Posted - 2012.09.11 11:09:00 - [122] - Quote Cede Forster wrote: just to make sure i really got this Client(1) to Server: Lock target Client(2) to Server: Warp to X - Tick 1- Server to Client(1). Target locked Server to Client(2): Ship flight vector set - End Tick 1- Client to Server(1): Activate module on target (regardless if you click the module on the target or manual do after target lock) -Tick 2- Server to Client(2): Warp initiated, dropping all target locks Server to Client(1): No target lock exists, module can not be activated -End Tick 2- sounds about right, thats how I understand it too basicly, with problem being that module activation isn't server sided so the servers can't prioitize it. Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 435	Posted - 2012.09.11 11:14:00 - [123] - Quote Muad 'dib wrote: me and few other noticed this extra delay arrive after a patch last summer. The months after we noticed people calling point and watching their "pointed" target ship warp off time and time again, one person did it so often he actually had the problem named after him, "pulling a kiki" (kiki le'boautier). We raised the issue at the time and filled a few petitions to be told that we were dreaming and that its lag, despite the obvious fact that we have been playing for many years and suddenly all have the same problem. We guessed it was an extra line of code going to the target ships client to check its online before making the point work or something along those lines, since sebo'ed HICs were catching all but the very fasted frigs, well whatever was changed it made it barely possible to catch even slow frigs. I was also convinced something had changed as I also noticed it after a patch like over a year ago... (I was flying instacanes at the time) being able to blow things up before they even appeared showed up as locked basicly.... after a patch frigs were suddenly able to warp away before I could shoot or point them.... with me having 1600 scan res. even made cynabal that had 2000-3000 scan res that sometimes would see tech 1 fit rifters warp away with me doing my best to point them... (where I got lock with prefired point) I personly think it was with the incursion expansion, but I am not sure... some people say the problem has been with eve since the beginning?.... but it became more obvious after an expansion/patch 1-2 years ago Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 492	Posted - 2012.09.11 11:20:00 - [124] - Quote Bubanni wrote: I personly think it was with the incursion expansion, but I am not sure... some people say the problem has been with eve since the beginning?.... but it became more obvious after an expansion/patch 1-2 years ago It was definitely last year as it was not long after i made my current corp. About the pre clicking the point, we found that this was actually worse in combination with this extra 'lag', where our clients would suffer an additional bit of this mysterious 'lag' and miss targets even more often! :( Im calling it lag, but its funny how we all had no problems for years and years and while internet latency improves in leaps every year, this problem suddenly leaps out right after an eve patch/expansion. We also had ships that were ACTUALLY scrambled or pointed warp from us, only to be chased down minutes later and killed with no stabs fitted, but i dont know if thats a similar problem, its not happened for a few months. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 651	Posted - 2012.09.11 11:20:00 - [125] - Quote Bubanni wrote: I personly think it was with the incursion expansion, but I am not sure... some people say the problem has been with eve since the beginning?.... but it became more obvious after an expansion/patch 1-2 years ago It was definitely last year as it was not long after i made my current corp. About the pre clicking the point, we found that this was actually worse in combination with this extra 'lag', where our clients would suffer an additional second of this mysterious 'lag'. :( Im calling it lag, but its funny how we all had no problems for years and years and while internet latency improves in leaps every year, this problem suddenly leaps out right after an eve patch/expansion, and effects everyone. We also had ships that were ACTUALLY scrambled or pointed warp from us, only to be chased down minutes later and killed with no stabs fitted, but i dont know if thats a similar problem, its not happened for a few months. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Bubanni ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 435	Posted - 2012.09.11 11:58:00 - [126] - Quote Muad 'dib wrote: Bubanni wrote: I personly think it was with the incursion expansion, but I am not sure... some people say the problem has been with eve since the beginning?.... but it became more obvious after an expansion/patch 1-2 years ago It was definitely last year as it was not long after i made my current corp. About the pre clicking the point, we found that this was actually worse in combination with this extra 'lag', where our clients would suffer an additional second of this mysterious 'lag'. :( Im calling it lag, but its funny how we all had no problems for years and years and while internet latency improves in leaps every year, this problem suddenly leaps out right after an eve patch/expansion, and effects everyone. We also had ships that were ACTUALLY scrambled or pointed warp from us, only to be chased down minutes later and killed with no stabs fitted, but i dont know if thats a similar problem, its not happened for a few months. yeah looking back at things, I recall it becomming noticeable before August, 2011... (probably multiple months before) EDIT: but at the time when I bug reported this, the dev/gm said he couldn't find anything changed related to locking/module mechanics being changed... (I think something was changed though as a bug...) Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 651	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:17:00 - [127] - Quote Bubanni wrote: yeah looking back at things, I recall it becomming noticeable before August, 2011... (probably multiple months before) EDIT: but at the time when I bug reported this, the dev/gm said he couldn't find anything changed related to locking/module mechanics being changed... (I think something was changed though as a bug...) Well CCP has never made any undocumented chances have they..... If there was something in the patch notes, the players would have already read it and thus not needed to make a petition, we tend to read those things because not doing so can lose your stuff/ship/pod/isk. something changed, im 100% sure of it. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Bubanni ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 436	Posted - 2012.09.11 12:39:00 - [128] - Quote Muad 'dib wrote: Bubanni wrote: yeah looking back at things, I recall it becomming noticeable before August, 2011... (probably multiple months before) EDIT: but at the time when I bug reported this, the dev/gm said he couldn't find anything changed related to locking/module mechanics being changed... (I think something was changed though as a bug...) Well CCP has never made any undocumented chances have they..... If there was something in the patch notes, the players would have already read it and thus not needed to make a petition, we tend to read those things because not doing so can lose your stuff/ship/pod/isk. something changed, im 100% sure of it. Agreed, but it's been so long now... it's hard to point fingers at what exactly happened back then, even from CCP's side.... even with some of us pointing it out as soon as we noticed (like a year ago) without any real attention given to it.... I think the problem is that the problem seems so small, but it's not... most people won't notice it in their daily play.... but when your focused on flying tackle, and fly in fleets often trying to catch stuff that doesn't want to be caught.... this is not limited to trying to catch stuff on gates :3 Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 471	Posted - 2012.10.11 23:52:00 - [129] - Quote Bump, any dev news? Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 347	Posted - 2012.10.12 04:53:00 - [130] - Quote Been an issue for maybe 2 years. You just cannot tackle fast warping frigates/cruisers and even some slow warping frigates. It's complete and utter bs. You can fly a specialized tackle frigate with multiple sensor boosters and a cruiser, yes a cruiser can warp away easily. Needs fixing.

Samoth Egnoled EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 772	Posted - 2012.10.12 06:22:00 - [131] - Quote This is definately a problem, as merc this **** happens to me all the time. He who says 'Nothing is impossible' Has never tried to slam a revolving door...
Chuxup Born-2-Kill 0utNumbered 3	Posted - 2012.12.10 02:50:00 - [132] - Quote Hate when this happens. Sometimes it seems instant, most other times it seems there is a delay between the lock and the mod activating. Very frustrating. Please fix!
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 141	Posted - 2012.12.10 04:13:00 - [133] - Quote Bump as well. Veritas still owes us a devblog and info about the server heart rate.
Bluetippedflyer Infiana Elparus 29	Posted - 2012.12.10 04:18:00 - [134] - Quote this is the most frustrating thing in eve atm
Bubanni ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 563	Posted - 2012.12.10 06:45:00 - [135] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW3bl1Dg7EI Just did a quick video with me pointing a poco to show the problen is still there, you can see the delay by how long it takes before the module icon shows up on the locked poco from when it is locked. (the same delay is there when trying to catch someone) Veritas, any news? :3 Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Fatbear Starwinders The Unwilling. 11	Posted - 2012.12.10 08:11:00 - [136] - Quote Throwing in a supporting inquisitive post. As a nasty pirate attempting to catch people against their will I'd love this to be fixed.
Peter Tjordenskiold 39	Posted - 2012.12.10 08:51:00 - [137] - Quote I like this thread and bump. A devblog of veritas would be awesome
Ager Agemo Saturn Reaper 188	Posted - 2012.12.30 20:03:00 - [138] - Quote Re bump, cmon CCP don't forget us :) blog and higher frequency
Dea della Morte Perkone Caldari State 42	Posted - 2012.12.30 21:32:00 - [139] - Quote Raiz Nhell wrote: I think it's called "lag" and it happens to the best of us... Not lag at all, its a server issue. Please do some research before being useless
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 1606	Posted - 2012.12.31 21:37:00 - [140] - Quote IMO, this is mostly a non-issue... Use a bubble... And if in lowsec, do you really need to be able to lock a frigate before it warps? Especially with a laughable 1800 scan res... Use an inty, not a cynabal...

Durzel The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 112	Posted - 2012.12.31 23:00:00 - [141] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: IMO, this is mostly a non-issue... Use a bubble... And if in lowsec, do you really need to be able to lock a frigate before it warps? Especially with a laughable 1800 scan res... Use an inty, not a cynabal... Well, inties would get murdered by the gate guns, but instalock Lokis or remote SEBO'd stuff still works. 1800 scan res isn't good enough really.
Chuxup Born-2-Kill 0utNumbered 4	Posted - 2013.02.12 23:30:00 - [142] - Quote Gizznitt Malikite wrote: IMO, this is mostly a non-issue... Use a bubble... And if in lowsec, do you really need to be able to lock a frigate before it warps? Especially with a laughable 1800 scan res... Use an inty, not a cynabal... Spoken like a non-pvper. Not surprised you're from Agony. You are completely ignoring the point. Scan res has nothing to do with the delay. It is not the time it takes to lock, it is the time it takes for a module to activate AFTER the target has already been locked. It should happen instantly, there are times when it happens instantly, other times there is up to a 1-1.5 second delay. That is inconsistent and should be fixed. Use a bubble? What if you're solo in a frig? Oh wait, Agony doesn't know the meaning of solo. Remember, there are some people out there who enjoy getting kills without relying on blob tactics.


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.