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[theory] Why T3 will fail

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Birkinz Caldari Vectra Source Partnership	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:37:00 - [61] Quote: not yet but is proven that: one or few options = bad several number of option = good many options = choose paralysis => bad T3 represent multiple options and most of humans go in a "choose paralysis" when this happen,EFT now is helping you to make choices, when you use EFT next time ask yourself "why i use EFT?" Not really, there is a gradient so new players do not need to jump straight into T3. Veteran players are often desperate for more choices or the chance to be creative with a setup. These ships will not make players invincible but will give extra options to advanced players. So your post seems pretty irrelivant. The response was probably a reaction to someone bashing an expansion that a huge amount of work has gone into before it is even live. As many people have said before if you dont like it then dont fly it.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:42:00 - [62] Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more. OP got flamed by Whisper I loved that reply - gonna buy Whisper a beer at the next fanfest now sir i got some questions for you 1) if that was inverse or better say if any player flame Whisper you will buy a beer at fanfest for that player ? 2) if any player flame a dev you will make the same reply ? Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.
Lurana Jade Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:46:00 - [63] Oh look, a Dev being an unprofessional and annoying jackass, like there arent enough here already. Reminds me of the old days. e/reminesces
Brodde Dim Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:46:00 - [64] Originally by: ceaon market-psychologist What exactly is a market psychologist? What degree do you need to be a practicing MP? Can an ordinary therapist just move his couch down to the nearest market? Originally by: rotweiler plenty of overreaction Maybe you need to see a market psychologist.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:52:00 - [65] Originally by: Birkinz The response was probably a reaction to someone bashing an expansion that a huge amount of work has gone into before it is even live. As many people have said before if you dont like it then dont fly it. you see this thread is on OOPE(so is not related to eve) and the title is [Theory]why T3 will fail some ppl actually fail to read the title and when ppl say why is this in OOPE i said human psychology is not related to eve. Also my statement can de confuse or vague but you can see that from all post none asked for more information/clue for example Whisper assumed this is a "cry thread". Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.
Finfamfoom	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:53:00 - [66] Originally by: rotweiler Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more. omg honestly remember you are a representative of a big company mr whisper. that response was so childish it isnt funny. You said booho cry some more implying you didnt like what he said and you think its ridiculus and childish to the point that he seems like crying over it. and you answer at the same level... what does that make the EVEO forums ? a kindergarden ? Im speechless ... Stick a tampon in it.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.20 13:55:00 - [67] Originally by: ceaon now sir i got some questions for you 1) if that was inverse or better say if any player flame Whisper you will buy a beer at fanfest for that player ? 2) if any player flame a dev you will make the same reply ? And now Sir, I got an answer for you! 1) If Whisper posted a whiny complaint about how a future Eve expansion will fail I would buy anybody flaming him a beer. 2) If the need arises, yes! But I find it very unlikely to see whiny posts from CCP about their game, while it is very common that some dumbass noobs ask CCP to 'fix losec', 'bring Concord to losec and 0.0', 'fix ninjasalvaging', you name it... The way Eve is designed, makes it very appealing for many and very frustrating for few players. If the few who are complaining find another game to play there is really nothing wrong with it. The spirit of the game was well reflected by Whisper's accurate reply which I highly appreciate. I am working in sales. When a potential customer tells me that he likes the products of a competitor more than the one of the company that I work for, I will not go down on my knees and beg him to like my product. Products cannot satisfy everybody and this is the reason why there is a multitude of different products on the same sector. Companies trying to make a product that appeals to everybody, end up with a product that satisfies nobodie's requirements perfectly. A jack of all trades, but master of none. I told some potential customers already that there is nothing wrong about buying from the competitor - in front of my boss. If you have a philosophy you should stick to it - or you will lose those customers who bought your philosophy with the product. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:13:00 - [68] Originally by: Brodde Dim What exactly is a market psychologist? marketing-psychologist= the person that study: why you buy a thing instead of other, what make you buy a thing and what create the need for it. a small example ppl are more often to say "yes"(approve a thing) if they have a hot liquid or something similar and ppl more often say "no"(disapprove) if they have/drink/eat something cold this example is proven to be working but there is no explication about this Originally by: Brodde Dim What degree do you need to be a practicing MP? marketing and NLP training AFAIK there is no official degree for this. Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:20:00 - [69] Originally by: H Lecter I am working in sales. nice Got a questions for you. If you have to sell cheese from X a company that have 25 different type of cheese and you can give a free sample and also you can give 1Gé¼ discount if a person try the product. how many type of cheese you will put on sample table to sell more? a)4-7 b)8-12 c)13-18 d)18-25 Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:24:00 - [70] Originally by: ceaon ppl are more often to say "yes"(approve a thing) if they have a hot liquid or something similar and ppl more often say "no"(disapprove) if they have/drink/eat something cold Orly? You should tell ice cream and soft drink producers about this. How could Coca Cola and Red Bull survive on the market when offering cold beverages? You're right, we should not have choices! So from now on there will only be one MMORPG, one brand of cars, one brand of clothes. Hmmm, actually I think that concept has been tried and was not very successful. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance

Brodde Dim Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:29:00 - [71] Originally by: ceaon Originally by: Brodde Dim What degree do you need to be a practicing MP? marketing and NLP training AFAIK there is no official degree for this. So its just a flashy name for a market analyst then I guess? Its not really psychology or social psychology? A nice title for marketing people to have on their business cards to boost the ego maybe? I'm just curious, I have never heard the term before.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:33:00 - [72] Whisper either got trolled, or trolled the troll back. They lost me somewhere around that. wanders off to kitchen to make some coffee
Solid Prefekt Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:36:00 - [73] Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more. So is this the attitude CCP has towards their customers with differing opinions? From my point of view you ARE speaking for the company. And even if I disagree with the OP, I disagree much more with your response. Personally, I don't think CCP should ever respond to any thread in this section. It should be kept in the Eve General Discussion forum (where it is mostly informational) or the Game Development forum to objectively respond to changes and issues on Sisi.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:37:00 - [74] Originally by: ceaon Got a questions for you. If you have to sell cheese from X a company that have 25 different type of cheese and you can give a free sample and also you can give 1Gé¼ discount if a person try the product. how many type of cheese you will put on sample table to sell more? a)4-7 b)8-12 c)13-18 d)18-25 This approach is usually being used when introducing a new product, i.e. one new type of cheese - maybe a second one (brie with pepper and brie with pieces of bacon in it). CCP has got one type of cheese (Eve) and is preparing one type of sausage (the vampire game that I don't recall at the moment). CCP is offering a sample (trial version) of their cheese to the customers. So going by your example, CCP does not offer too many choices to confuse you. It is up to you if you like their cheese better than the competitor's cheese (WoW). You don't like CCP's cheese (maybe because it has pepper and bacon in it and you want only bacon) and that is perfectly fine. One can just hope that the competitor's cheese will appeal to you because otherwise you will have to get along without cheese for your entire life P.S.: Your excellent education obviously did not cover languages (which is sad for a commercial career path). You should try this. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:48:00 - [75] the cheese is the T3 not eve and on t3 you get many many possible combinations (anyone remember the number that was said on fanfest?) Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.
Cautet Better Dead Then Smeg Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:54:00 - [76] I initially was rather sceptical about T3 but for different reasons. However I am becoming less sceptical as they approach. To answer some of OP's posts: 1. There is one product. Eve. T3 ships fit within the Eve universe. CCP aren't selling 25 different products. 2. There are many different combinations BUT only 4 core ships. 3. There is a degree of customisation (sp) already apparent in Eve and in every single online game. People like to customise their avatars/ships. 4. All that is happening is the level of customisability is increasing and the ability to change the way your ship looks is being introduced. It's about having that touch of indivuality to your ship rather than having the ultimate ship. Other posts: Cost. I noted a post about how cost of T3 has been exagerated, and I agree. This looks like it will not have bottlenecks caused by hard-coded limits on raw materials that T2 does. In the medium to long term, depending on the exact method of implementation T3 could be cheaper than T2.
Gaius Aemilius Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:01:00 - [77] Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more. Wow! It's true. There is no charge for Awesomeness! I love you CCP Whisper, will you have my babies?
paddytehpyro Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:03:00 - [78] T3 = more ways to be creative in your setups = Good tbqh. Now you have your modules and rigs and hardwiring and ship subsystems to help make something unique. Instead of just the cookie cutter setups that have appeard after years of players tinkering/doing the maths. The whole "lose a level off random subsystem skill when ship goes boom" thing adds some more risk to flying these things other than "oh well time to mine/run missions/sell a GTC and buy another one" approach that seems to happen now. Which can only make things more interesting. Other than adding new ship equipment what else could they do. And also, anything that makes sexier ships considers crosstraining to amarr can only be good
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:07:00 - [79] Originally by: ceaon the cheese is the T3 not eve and on t3 you get many many possible combinations (anyone remember the number that was said on fanfest?) Continuing a useless, but somehow interesting argument: Cheese = product Eve = product Pepper = ingredient T3 = ingredient You cannot buy T3 with your credit card from CCP, only Eve. T3 is a part of it. CCP is now in the process of changing the recipe of their cheese by adding a new ingredient, sure this is risky as it changes the overall taste. But let's just wait til it is finished and we can try it. If it tastes horrible I am sure many people will talk to CCP about it and they will change it in a way to make it taste better for all of us. Peace My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:43:00 - [80] Originally by: H Lecter CCP is now in the process of changing the recipe of their cheese by adding a new ingredient, sure this is risky as it changes the overall taste. But let's just wait til it is finished and we can try it. If it tastes horrible I am sure many people will talk to CCP about it and they will change it in a way to make it taste better for all of us. i edited my other post hope you read it Originally by: H Lecter Peace i dont argue whit you we are just @ the theory that less is more Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.

Ruri Dant Onorata Societa	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:45:00 - [81] IMO the only reason the t3 wont have a kickstart is the probable cost and skill loss (not final yet?). But as an idea i'm ****-ing excited about it, wonderful idea simply just for exploring the implication of all the variables on the test server! This deliveres a beautiful twist to PVP also! not only because new stuff is on but because FCs might be in the situation of not knowing well what the hell they facing (anyone noticed some variants change the base sensor strenght of ships? for example) After all i'm bloody tired of facing always the same enemy setups and fitting them myself, getting too classic especially now the nanonerf took a bit of variables out it's come to the i win combinations of heavy tank high dps with ECM. plus i hope some nano is back!
Ruri Dant Onorata Societa	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:47:00 - [82] Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more. damn why did i bother to answer to the OP when this sums my feelings up
Fiben Bolger	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:56:00 - [83] Originally by: ceaon but is proven that: one or few options = bad several number of option = good many options = choose paralysis => bad T3 represent multiple options and most of humans go in a "choose paralysis" when this happen,EFT now is helping you to make choices, when you use EFT next time ask yourself "why i use EFT?" Most people won't have the cash to worry about this. Those who do need something to spend it on. How many options does a billionaire have to worry about? That's life in the big city. Actually, the biggest fun of an old game called, "Pax Imperia" was designing ships. Cheers to CCP for bringing back a little of that.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:02:00 - [84] Another Dev Smackdown. They really are uppity at the moment, i guess the Apoc expansion deadline has everyone a little burnt out. [i] Ransom List Project: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=999677&page=1
Shevar Minmatar Target Practice incorporated	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:18:00 - [85] Originally by: rotweiler Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more. omg honestly remember you are a representative of a big company mr whisper. that response was so childish it isnt funny. You said booho cry some more implying you didnt like what he said and you think its ridiculus and childish to the point that he seems like crying over it. and you answer at the same level... what does that make the EVEO forums ? a kindergarden ? Im speechless ... I very much prefer this level of interaction as opposed needing to go through 20 levels of management as a dev and then ending up saying nothing like in for example WoW. Besides it was a baseless whine the op had . --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Shevar Minmatar Target Practice incorporated	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:19:00 - [86] Originally by: ceaon Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup from scrapheap challenge or wherever for "guaranteed" results. Boo hoo. Cry some more. OP got flamed by Whisper I loved that reply - gonna buy Whisper a beer at the next fanfest now sir i got some questions for you 1) if that was inverse or better say if any player flame Whisper you will buy a beer at fanfest for that player ? 2) if any player flame a dev you will make the same reply ? If the dev makes such a horrible post as the OP you might have had a point. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Cat o'Fivetails Rancer Defence League.	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:35:00 - [87] Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: ceaon the cheese is the T3 not eve and on t3 you get many many possible combinations (anyone remember the number that was said on fanfest?) Continuing a useless, but somehow interesting argument: Cheese = product Eve = product Pepper = ingredient T3 = ingredient You cannot buy T3 with your credit card from CCP, only Eve. T3 is a part of it. CCP is now in the process of changing the recipe of their cheese by adding a new ingredient, sure this is risky as it changes the overall taste. But let's just wait til it is finished and we can try it. If it tastes horrible I am sure many people will talk to CCP about it and they will change it in a way to make it taste better for all of us. Peace So you're saying I cannot buy pepper with my credit card, unless I buy cheese?
Birkinz Caldari Vectra Source Partnership	Posted - 2009.02.20 16:50:00 - [88] Edited by: Birkinz on 20/02/2009 16:59:06 Ceaon, I dont think your restaurant analogy is valid. When people go for a meal they do not want to spend a month deciding which combination of courses is optimal. However, with EvE it is this complexity that alot of people enjoy. It is not a twitch game offering instant gratification - it is a strategy game requiring planning. And as I said in my previous post, there is a gradient to this complexity from noob ship (with relatively few choices) right up to these T3 cruisers. As long as it is balanced, more complexity = better as far as I am concerned.
FlyinS Caldari Planetary Industry and Trade Organization	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:14:00 - [89] Originally by: ceaon now to go back to topic: to many choices are bad I can't possibly imagine how you actually believe this to be a true statement.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:42:00 - [90] Birkinz sry i think my crap english dont make my posts clear i am not against complexity but whit t3 there is none yes you read well none is just put all components in a data base then make a code that sort this combination by speed,cpu etc etc and there you have all this complexity solved in few clicks i say less that 5% of possible combination will be used after release Originally by: FlyinS I can't possibly imagine how you actually believe this to be a true statement. if you have the choice to put your money in 300 different banks so you will check all of them ? Somos universales, Pero andamos como el resto de los mortales, Ocultando nuestros miedos, Parece que no pero las guapas tambien se tiran pedos, Tambien los listos sumamos con los dedos.



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