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Implant loss instead of skillpoint loss?

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Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.21 04:07:00 - [1] As title says, I wonder how it would be received if instead of losing skillpoints when your t3 ship was destroyed, if instead, you lost a randomly determined implant, or if each implant had a random chance of being damaged. just a thought. I won't be flying T3 with the sp loss mechanism, as you can't buy back skillpoints, but you can implants. If they dont' change it that's fine, I'll just wait for t4.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.21 04:25:00 - [2] So, wait, you'd rather lose a random implant (which could be even worth over 1 bil ISK) rather than lose 4 day's worth of SP maximum ? With a much more likely 20-hour-or-so-SP-loss tops if you don't bother with any L5 subsystem skills ? _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.21 04:58:00 - [3] Yes Akita, I would. I can buy another implant, I can never get those skillpoints back. ever.
Skjorta	Posted - 2009.02.21 05:35:00 - [4] Originally by: Ris Dnalor Yes Akita, I would. I can buy another implant, I can never get those skillpoints back. ever. Actually....
eFart	Posted - 2009.02.21 05:36:00 - [5] but wit implaints u can train more skillpoints right
Joe Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.	Posted - 2009.02.21 05:41:00 - [6] Does this thread highlight the ETC gamers attitude to isk loss compared to skillpiont loss in eve now? Aparently loosing 2bil isk implants, slave omega's etc is of no concern, but 4 days sp training is.
SirSpectre Gallente Harbingers Of Destruction	Posted - 2009.02.21 05:53:00 - [7] soo..... if i didn't use an implant, I'd be unaffected? How is this fair to those that use them? ---- Sig here. ---> X
K'orbin Hayato Minmatar Meridian Dynamics Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2009.02.21 05:53:00 - [8] This is already implemented. Except the random value always defaults to 'all' and it's called getting podded. -- If you find yourself in a fair fight, somebody screwed up.
Evelgrivion Ignatium. Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.02.21 05:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Joe Does this thread highlight the ETC gamers attitude to isk loss compared to skillpiont loss in eve now? Aparently loosing 2bil isk implants, slave omega's etc is of no concern, but 4 days sp training is. If it does indeed represent the ETC gamer's attitude towards loss, I'm not sure I could have picked a better mechanic to compensate for it. <Insert rabbling about people having too much ISK here>
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.02.21 05:56:00 - [10] I nominate this as "worst idea of 2009" Lose an implant for losing a t3 ship. So yeah, I just jump into a clone with no implants before flying...sort of like people already do with PVP. Plus you already have a chance of losing implants when your ship explodes. Sig is now EVE related. Happy mods?

Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.21 06:05:00 - [11] Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 21/02/2009 06:05:43 Originally by: Joe Does this thread highlight the ETC gamers attitude to isk loss compared to skillpiont loss in eve now? Aparently loosing 2bil isk implants, slave omega's etc is of no concern, but 4 days sp training is. First off, I have only twice in my 6 years in eve used such expensive implants. Both times, after a time, I was pod-killed and they were lost. I haven't used them since, but that is not the point. The point is if I could trade 4 days skillpoints training to get those implants back, I would not. I'm not saying I'm so wealthy that I can afford to replace implants all day. I cannot. Frankly I think the T3 ships are going to cost more than most Slave Omegas, so really, your not making a valid point about iskies, as if you can afford to lose the ship, then you can afford to lose the implant. But again I digress. The point is that I feel skillpoints should never be taken away, as there is no way to make up for that loss over the grand time scheme. I have in the past, and likely someday will again, risk billions of isk in pvp. I have never (intentionally) risked skillpoints in PVP. Isk I can make back. Skillpoints I cannot. Imagine if I had lost 4 days worth of skill points for every ship I've ever lost in eve! I might be negative in skillpoints! Or consider I lose 8 T3 ships over the course of a year. That's over a month of skill training time GONE, that can never be regained. if you have a problem with ETC sales, make a thread about it eh, and get the **** outta mine.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.02.21 06:08:00 - [12] I think you maybe need to look up just what the loss in skillpoints actually is. You obviously have no idea what you are even complaining about. Sig is now EVE related. Happy mods?
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.21 06:10:00 - [13] Originally by: Khemul Zula I nominate this as "worst idea of 2009" Lose an implant for losing a t3 ship. So yeah, I just jump into a clone with no implants before flying...sort of like people already do with PVP. Plus you already have a chance of losing implants when your ship explodes. ah well see this is similar, as you chose to jump out of your implants for 24 hours, then you'd lose skillpoints, because your attributes would be lower for the duration BUT, if you kept your implants in and risked them, there would be no skillpoint loss. With my suggestion you get a choice, that's all. As far as risking losing implants when your ship explodes, I suppose I could've missed that update. I know I've never lost one, and I've been blown up plenty. read: LOTS. regardless you could increase the chance with T3, so what you're saying doesn't invalidate my idea. I do appreciate your feedback though, have a nice day
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.21 06:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Khemul Zula I think you maybe need to look up just what the loss in skillpoints actually is. You obviously have no idea what you are even complaining about. I wasn't complaining, just making a suggestion. I do see lots of complaining about my suggestion, however...
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.21 06:54:00 - [15] Implant loss would have little, if any, meaning. If one has enough ISK to pvp heavily in these T3 cruisers they also have enough to fart HG slave sets at will. Loseing SP is something ISK can't instantly fix. Nevermind ejecting before the ship pops avoids loseing skillpoints.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Akita T So, wait, you'd rather lose a random implant (which could be even worth over 1 bil ISK) rather than lose 4 day's worth of SP maximum ? With a much more likely 20-hour-or-so-SP-loss tops if you don't bother with any L5 subsystem skills ? hell no! I much prefer the -sp to the -implant.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:04:00 - [17] Using your logic you could assert that every ISK you lose is ISK "YOU WILL NEVER GET BACK". ISK and SP can go up and down and both have for me. By arbitrarily asserting that SP can't go down but ISK can you are limiting yourself. Your prerogative but it doesn't make much logical sense. I would think that in a Risk vs Reward game ANY risk is alright as long as the reward balances. In fact I dread the day my clones cost so much that I can't comfortably pod destruct around the universe with impunity and start becoming concerned with being podded and being forced to wait out 24hr JC timers. Sounds like a restriction more than anything. Obviously I have no issue with implants being lost as I never use them. Really though it just increases the ISK cost loss of the ship which isn't different but just more of the same. I like that they are introducing a new possible loss mechanic and hope that the performance of the ships justify it (1-4 days of training is really nothing so I'm not saying they should incredible or anything). "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Silver Fusion Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Ris Dnalor As title says, I wonder how it would be received if instead of losing skillpoints when your t3 ship was destroyed, if instead, you lost a randomly determined implant, or if each implant had a random chance of being damaged. just a thought. I won't be flying T3 with the sp loss mechanism, as you can't buy back skillpoints, but you can implants. If they dont' change it that's fine, I'll just wait for t4. Get out -- si vis pacem, para bellum If you wish for peace, prepare for war
Inectus	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:41:00 - [19] It's one skill level, randomly, from a sub system skill that is A) a level 1 skill and B) specific only to T3 and is currently (as far as I know) avoidable by ejecting. This seems like an insanely minor penalty. You aren't going to all of a sudden lose out on Battleships 5 or something. Seriously, not that big a deal, if you are so worried about your monthly income just keep the engine on that CNR warm.
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.02.21 11:18:00 - [20] PMASAL! Obsession can be very unhealthy for a blossoming character. As a six year veteran, I'm afraid you may never grow out of it. And they sing, Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think).

adriaans Amarr Ankaa.	Posted - 2009.02.21 11:31:00 - [21] no F*ing way! i don't want to loose slave implants etc (ive been using them for soon 8 months, so how you manage to loose them that fast is beyond me, and yes i live in low sec) -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr! Originally by:** UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
Malygros Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.21 11:35:00 - [22] Edited by: Malygros on 21/02/2009 11:36:22 Sounds like the penalty is correct, as the OP is worried about the consequence. Think about it, what fun is PvP without the risk of a serious consequence? PvP without risk is mere ganking, and is of no value. My 2p :P Some things are painfully obvious, others must be made obvious...painfully.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.02.21 11:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Malygros Edited by: Malygros on 21/02/2009 11:36:22 Sounds like the penalty is correct, as the OP is worried about the consequence. Think about it, what fun is PvP without the risk of a serious consequence? PvP without risk is mere ganking, and is of no value. My 2p :P Personally I find dropping a couple of hundred mil to replace the ship to be a 'loss of consequence'.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2009.02.21 12:05:00 - [24] There are two ways to NOT lose any SP at all every time you lose a T3 ship. a) self destruct b) eject first In the eject scenario you face possibly giving an observant and quick to react opponent a free T3 ship. This is your 'implant' penalty right here. You're not going to lose any SP in that case, but I'll bet many people would rather lose 20 hours (many people lose that already regularly when they forget to change skills), than give someone a free ship. The idea of course is that many people will say 'I won't be flying T3'. Great, they're cruisers anyway and they're not supposed to be common, the will have their niche like other things do.
CyberGh0st Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.02.21 12:31:00 - [25] Edited by: CyberGh0st on 21/02/2009 12:32:04 I think loosing SP from getting your T3 ships destroyed may be a good way for the rookies to catch up with the vets. Rookies will stick to T2 ships and mods, while the vets use T3 ... Cyberwiz aka CyberGh0st aka Mentakh Active @ EvE Online Favorites : DAoC-SI/SWG Pre CU-NGE/Ryzom Retired @ WoW/LOTRO/WAR/Planetside/Entropia/UO/Lineage/GW/EQ/Jumpgate/Dofus/AoC
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.21 12:49:00 - [26] Implants are just ISK in another form. CCP has stated they want to have a different form of penalty for the T3 ships since ISK is easy to accumulate. Losing a skill level in a subsystem skill will not be a big deal. It is at most 5 days training if a level 5 becomes level 4, less than a day if skills are only at 4. The challenge for CCP will be to make the maxing of those skills so desirable that people will WANT to train them to 5.
Lara Gosta	Posted - 2009.02.21 13:13:00 - [27] Originally by: Ris Dnalor If they dont' change it that's fine, I'll just wait for t4. With T4 you'll loose a random stat point too.
Lara Gosta	Posted - 2009.02.21 13:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida The challenge for CCP will be to make the maxing of those skills so desirable that people will WANT to train them to 5. A +20% bonus for each level maybe? :) (Just thinking)
Joss Sparq Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.21 13:49:00 - [29] "If you're afraid to lose your SP then don't undock in your SC!" Wisdom which sounds familiar
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.21 15:09:00 - [30] Originally by: Lord Fitz There are two ways to NOT lose any SP at all every time you lose a T3 ship. a) self destruct b) eject first In the eject scenario you face possibly giving an observant and quick to react opponent a free T3 ship. This is your 'implant' penalty right here. You're not going to lose any SP in that case, but I'll bet many people would rather lose 20 hours (many people lose that already regularly when they forget to change skills), than give someone a free ship. The idea of course is that many people will say 'I won't be flying T3'. Great, they're cruisers anyway and they're not supposed to be common, the will have their niche like other things do. Originally by: Malygros Edited by: Malygros on 21/02/2009 11:36:22 Sounds like the penalty is correct, as the OP is worried about the consequence. Think about it, what fun is PvP without the risk of a serious consequence? PvP without risk is mere ganking, and is of no value. My 2p :P Originally by: Joss Sparq "If you're afraid to lose your SP then don't undock in your SC!" Wisdom which sounds familiar Well. I concede that the skillpoint loss simply can't be replicated by any amount of isk loss. I also concede I can't think of anything else that would be as "risky" as the skillpoint loss. So, while I still cannot imagine any reward that would be worth the risk of Skillpoint loss, I admit that perhaps this is exactly what CCP is wanting, and that my suggestion has little merit. thanks for the replies



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