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So when will the "train one character at a time" limit be lifted?

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Tam Elbran	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:22:00 - [1] I see CCP has taken a huge step forward in adding the upcoming skill que, when will they take the next one and get rid of the one character at a time limit? A limit that seems to have one function and one function only...to force people to buy another account if they want to try more than one build at a time. I'll be honest...such blatant things as that ensure I won't buy a second account. Being new I obviously haven't decided what build I like best, but thanks to this arbitrary limit I can't really test others without stopping development on my current "main". Yes, I'm sure this has been posted before, no, I don't care.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:27:00 - [2] As soon as any other major MMO on the market allows you to level up more than one character on the same account at the same time. Alternatively when capitalism fails, and the new era of socialist economic organization is ushered in by the victorious working class. In other words, don't hold your breath while you're waiting. -Karlemgne
Tam Elbran	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:32:00 - [3] Originally by: Karlemgne As soon as any other major MMO on the market allows you to level up more than one character on the same account at the same time. Alternatively when capitalism fails, and the new era of socialist economic organization is ushered in by the victorious working class. In other words, don't hold your breath while you're waiting. -Karlemgne ahhh yes...but in another MMO I control the speed at which I skill up. If I go out and hunt hardcore for a couple of ours I will gain lots of experience. If I then logoff and craft hardcore for a couple of hours I will then gain lots of experience for that without affecting the experience gained on the hunter. In Eve there is nothing I can do to make my "active" guy "level" faster...if I start a new guy however, the other is effectively penalized.
Kulmid Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Tam Elbran ahhh yes...but in another MMO I control the speed at which I skill up. If I go out and hunt hardcore for a couple of ours I will gain lots of experience. If I then logoff and craft hardcore for a couple of hours I will then gain lots of experience for that without affecting the experience gained on the hunter. In Eve there is nothing I can do to make my "active" guy "level" faster...if I start a new guy however, the other is effectively penalized. You can buy another account _________________
Whattyamean Dean	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:35:00 - [5] Because being able to generate triple the skill points on one account is totally like a 24-hour queue.
Selenica Draper Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:37:00 - [6] Eve-Online's number of "subscribers" would most likely be halved. Please resize your sig to less than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
Sythyss Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:48:00 - [7] training multiple characters at the same time is ridiculous. it will most likely never be implemented. It's just like giving everyone multiple accounts for free. for what reason do they have to do that? can you name ANY other mmo that gives you multiple accounts for free? no. ---------------------------
Tam Elbran	Posted - 2009.02.21 07:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Sythyss training multiple characters at the same time is ridiculous. it will most likely never be implemented. It's just like giving everyone multiple accounts for free. for what reason do they have to do that? can you name ANY other mmo that gives you multiple accounts for free? no. So this is you admitting it's a blatant money grab and giving us 3 characters on an account is just a fake out to try to make it look like they aren't forcing more accounts on people. Interesting how you call people not wanting to waste money ridiculous.
Ulasim Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Tam Elbran Originally by: Sythyss training multiple characters at the same time is ridiculous. it will most likely never be implemented. It's just like giving everyone multiple accounts for free. for what reason do they have to do that? can you name ANY other mmo that gives you multiple accounts for free? no. So this is you admitting it's a blatant money grab and giving us 3 characters on an account is just a fake out to try to make it look like they aren't forcing more accounts on people. Interesting how you call people not wanting to waste money ridiculous. CCP is a company There goal is to make money. You are supprised why?
EmpressShiva	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:08:00 - [10] Multiple characters training isn't that much of a stretch, you can only physically use one character at a time, so other than economic powerhousing it's not that absurd. I have a hearty dislike for the extra-account requirements- additional character slots are for recyclable scam alts at this point. At minimum I think it'd be nice to see atleast the ability to divide training between characters, so its less micromanagement. CCP is sadly unlikely to change their stance on this money-maker. Power gamers run 4 or 5 accounts, while I believe serious players have 1-2. I had two for a few months until I realized it was just a waste of money trying to be competitive like this.
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:13:00 - [11] OP fails you can only log into 1 character per account at anyone time anyway - do what we did - train the Alt while the main idles if you know what to train then even better -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
Tam Elbran	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:14:00 - [12] Originally by: RaTTuS OP fails you can only log into 1 character per account at anyone time anyway - do what we did - train the Alt while the main idles if you know what to train then even better Wow...you are clueless on so many levels.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:14:00 - [13] Edited by: Misanth on 21/02/2009 08:14:17 Everyone with half a brain will use the 2 slots they can't play (same time as their main) to optimize research etc, passive incomes. After that they might train them into whatever, but it'd put a massive strain on the economy. Cba to post more than that, if anyone had the basic economy understanding they wouldn't keep screaming for 'moar moar moar' randomly. It's pretty simple really, people make too much isk as it is today, if anything, we need to cut down iskmaking. What if CCP said one day that we're not allowed to have more than one account? It would kill character value (unless extremely high sp), but it'd make iskmaking a crapload harder. And risks in PvP bigger. Essentially, isk/money would be worth more. (stupid suggestion is stupid, I reply with another stupid suggestion just to balance off the stupidity.. let's be stupid together!)
Tam Elbran	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:14:00 - [14] It's interesting that it seems most people see this policy for what it is and that there isn't a larger outcry about it.
Tam Elbran	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Misanth Edited by: Misanth on 21/02/2009 08:14:17 Everyone with half a brain will use the 2 slots they can't play (same time as their main) to optimize research etc, passive incomes. After that they might train them into whatever, but it'd put a massive strain on the economy. Cba to post more than that, if anyone had the basic economy understanding they wouldn't keep screaming for 'moar moar moar' randomly. It's pretty simple really, people make too much isk as it is today, if anything, we need to cut down iskmaking. What if CCP said one day that we're not allowed to have more than one account? It would kill character value (unless extremely high sp), but it'd make iskmaking a crapload harder. And risks in PvP bigger. Essentially, isk/money would be worth more. (stupid suggestion is stupid, I reply with another stupid suggestion just to balance off the stupidity.. let's be stupid together!) It's a stupid suggestion...yet it doesn't seem to hurt all the other MMOs out there. I will give CCP serious props for one thing...the degree to which they can brainwash some of their clientele.
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:27:00 - [16] Originally by: Tam Elbran It's interesting that it seems most people see this policy for what it is and that there isn't a larger outcry about it. It's like you see a glutton in a restaurant having a pile of meat in front of him. You could try to talk him out of eating his meal, but you know that you will most likely not succeed.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:27:00 - [17] Well it's taken many years to finally get some semblance of a queue at all. At this rate, I'd say several more years and many more expansions unfortunately. At the very least they could reduce the price of character transfers to like $5, if anything at all. I've gotten used to training one character per account. But sometimes I want to close a couple down and still have access to one of my other characters. $20 per move is insane, especially when you have to pay the monthly subscription to activate the account before you move the character. Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish.
Kitsumi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Tam Elbran [ahhh yes...but in another MMO I control the speed at which I skill up. If I go out and hunt hardcore for a couple of ours I will gain lots of experience. You are making a mistake here. Namely comparing EVE to other MMOs. EVE's skills are not a 1:1 correlation to the skills in other MMOs. Why? You just skilled up to pilot Battlecruisers. Great! Do you have the 30million isk to buy one? No? Awwww, gotta isk up. And the mods? Oawwwww, another 5million isk for the mods. EVE characters are effective not because of their skills alone. They are effective by their equipment. Most of which is not obtained by simply walking up to an NPC with 25 goat skins and picking one of 4 mediocre items. EVE characters "skill up" two ways. One is the on/offline skill training. The other is by obtaining the isk needed to purchase the gear. In other MMOs you smack around NPCs to gain XP for "levels". In EVE you smack around NPCs to gain isk for gear. Even then it isn't a 1:1 correlation. Point is EVE != other MMOs. Other MMOs != EVE. Quit trying to make them into each other. *Scars flown proud!*
Tam Elbran	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Empyre Well it's taken many years to finally get some semblance of a queue at all. At this rate, I'd say several more years and many more expansions unfortunately. At the very least they could reduce the price of character transfers to like $5, if anything at all. I've gotten used to training one character per account. But sometimes I want to close a couple down and still have access to one of my other characters. $20 per move is insane, especially when you have to pay the monthly subscription to activate the account before you move the character. Even though I still consider a ripoff...but I was thinking maybe charge a small premium if you want to train more than one character per account...say....$3-$5 per extra character per month. I think that would be a big money maker for them... Train 1 characters = $15 <---What single account holders pay. Train 2 characters = $20 Train 3 characters = $25 Train 4 characters = $30 <---Second account Or give account holders a discount on multiple accounts. Just do something so it's not so ham-handed wallet grab.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:35:00 - [20] Originally by: EmpressShiva Multiple characters training isn't that much of a stretch, you can only physically use one character at a time, so other than economic powerhousing it's not that absurd. I have a hearty dislike for the extra-account requirements- additional character slots are for recyclable scam alts at this point. Training multiple characters would also devalue specialisation and greatly increase character farming. The current system is just fine and I would be surpriced, if CCP changed it. The extra slots are only pretty useless to young accounts. As you get more SP and isk you will fill them with specialized alts. Either spend some time training one or buy one with iskies. There are great advantages in having characters, that aren't affected by the choices of your main and allow different styles of playing. Originally by: EmpressShiva At minimum I think it'd be nice to see atleast the ability to divide training between characters, so its less micromanagement. Lot of effort to save you from a relog. Might happen, but propably pretty low in priority. Originally by: EmpressShiva CCP is sadly unlikely to change their stance on this money-maker. Power gamers run 4 or 5 accounts, while I believe serious players have 1-2. I had two for a few months until I realized it was just a waste of money trying to be competitive like this. True, but do you care, if you can't compete with someone who has that much time and money to spend on a game? I play for fun and all it requires is that you join a corp and make a few friends. You can do the exact same things, but spend less money, less time and spend time with friends instead of soloing. More then 1-2 accounts seems to me, as it seemed to you, to be more of a burden than advantage.
Tam Elbran	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Kitsumi Originally by: Tam Elbran [ahhh yes...but in another MMO I control the speed at which I skill up. If I go out and hunt hardcore for a couple of ours I will gain lots of experience. You are making a mistake here. Namely comparing EVE to other MMOs. EVE's skills are not a 1:1 correlation to the skills in other MMOs. Why? You just skilled up to pilot Battlecruisers. Great! Do you have the 30million isk to buy one? No? Awwww, gotta isk up. And the mods? Oawwwww, another 5million isk for the mods. EVE characters are effective not because of their skills alone. They are effective by their equipment. Most of which is not obtained by simply walking up to an NPC with 25 goat skins and picking one of 4 mediocre items. EVE characters "skill up" two ways. One is the on/offline skill training. The other is by obtaining the isk needed to purchase the gear. In other MMOs you smack around NPCs to gain XP for "levels". In EVE you smack around NPCs to gain isk for gear. Even then it isn't a 1:1 correlation. Point is EVE != other MMOs. Other MMOs != EVE. Quit trying to make them into each other. Eve is exactly like other MMOs in everything but the skilling up speed. Just because I can get that uber sword of destruction doesn't mean I can effectively use it. To be honest that's another thing that surprises me about the Eve playerbase in general, so many have convinced themselves that Eve is on some other plane than other MMOs...it's not. It basically has a single unique feature (besides setting)... In fact I could actually go a step further...I could say Eve requires less skill than other MMOs. All I have to do is log in once a day and change my skill thats training and I can theoretically become a god by stats without having a clue how to play my character. In another MMO you have to actually use your character to gain skill. (yes, there are exceptions...like certain types of quests)
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:45:00 - [22] A company looking to make money? Say it isn't so!
Junko Togawa	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:47:00 - [23] When it won't hurt their business model. Until then, not happening. As for the arguement of being able to level at your own speed, what about GTC/PLEX? A hardcore 'other MMO' player can level up fast if they play like a maniac. A hardcore EvE player can make ISK like a mint and buy GTC/PLEX to support their account/alting instead of using real money. Also...ever think of playing on the test server, if you wanna try different things? Meantime, I'm sure CCP is deeply and personally offended you're not buying a second account because of their money-grubbing bullying.
Cadde Gallente Gene Works AKA-AHN KINGDOM	Posted - 2009.02.21 08:52:00 - [24] First of all, they will lift that limit once they nerf the three characters per account... Or any of the above reasons given. Originally by: Tam Elbran Eve is exactly like other MMOs in everything but the skilling up speed. Just because I can get that uber sword of destruction doesn't mean I can effectively use it. To be honest that's another thing that surprises me about the Eve playerbase in general, so many have convinced themselves that Eve is on some other plane than other MMOs...it's not. It basically has a single unique feature (besides setting)... In fact I could actually go a step further...I could say Eve requires less skill than other MMOs. All I have to do is log in once a day and change my skill thats training and I can theoretically become a god by stats without having a clue how to play my character. In another MMO you have to actually use your character to gain skill. (yes, there are exceptions...like certain types of quests) You took it one step too far my friend. If you log in once per day, change your skill training gaining 5% to whatever you want to excel at expecting to win with that alone then you are horribly mistaken. The most obvious case i can present is the PvP scene, it doesn't matter if you have 100 million SP or just 5 million SP. If you have no clue of what you are doing then no amount of skills are going to save your ship. The thing that makes EvE different from every other MMO I've seen is that it is built around PvP, everything is focused around that aspect in one way or another, it is the driving force of this game even though some want to just fight dumb AI for all eternity and gain ****loads of isk. If you think skills alone will save you then you are simply HORRIBLY mistaken. It's like buying a new computer with everything top of the line expecting to be the best at first person shooters. Sure, higher FPS and reduced latency can make you better but in the end, it all boils down to your own experience and real life skills! //Cadde --------------- Opinions? Yes they belong to me, not my corp!
Pesky LaRue Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Tam Elbran It's interesting that it seems most people see this policy for what it is and that there isn't a larger outcry about it. This is where your argument is losing steam. "Outcry"? Has there been some kind of human rights injustice here? Please, grow up a little - CCP, as others have said, are a money making organization, not a humanitarian charity. They don't put this game out for their health, they put it out to make as much money as possible. By it's very nature, the EVE skill system is extremely flexible, albeit time-consuming. You want Tam to be a miner, a mission runner, a trader, an industrialist, he can be ALL those things, ALL at the same time - just not immediately. You keep using other games as a benchmark - which I find fallacious, but I can see why you'd do it - so in which game can you ultimately become all the different classes/professions, and if you did so, how long would it take to get your Level 80 Mage/Priest/Elf/Warrior/Flower-Arranger/Cheap Hooker? Moreover, the fact you can sign up for as many trial accounts as you like kind of undermines your argument about builds too. Want to try mining? Get a buddy account and see if you like it for two weeks. Or, stop training your main and train an alt on the second account - like you'd stop training your Cleric to train your Paladin. I get it that you don't find this an equitable trade, but tough luck. Again, you CAN do everything in EVE, you just have to play long enough. Or get another account. No one is forcing you to, the game is actually flexible enough NOT to force you to do this, you just don't have the patience or mindset to see it. \|+ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ +\|
123GuessWho	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:15:00 - [26] multiple accounts /thread
Pesky LaRue Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:16:00 - [27] Originally by: Tam Elbran To be honest that's another thing that surprises me about the Eve playerbase in general, so many have convinced themselves that Eve is on some other plane than other MMOs...it's not. It basically has a single unique feature (besides setting)... This, again, just highlights the fact you really don't "get" EVE. If you think it has but a "single" unique feature (the skill queue) then you're just missing the point. \|+ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ +\|
Djana Libra Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Tam Elbran So this is you admitting it's a blatant money grab and giving us 3 characters on an account is just a fake out to try to make it look like they aren't forcing more accounts on people. Uhm no thats for a few cyno alts, noobcorp scouts <SIG> I bought the wife a toy Deimos to have fun with while i play eve! </SIG>
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:22:00 - [29] Don't be frightened of stopping the skill training on your 'main' character to try new ones. After all, your characters are much more than just their skill points. Hopefully, you'll soon realise that the fun isn't in what ship you're able to use, but in what you do with it.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.21 09:43:00 - [30] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 21/02/2009 09:44:16 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 21/02/2009 09:43:41 Originally by: Tam Elbran ahhh yes...but in another MMO I control the speed at which I skill up. If I go out and hunt hardcore for a couple of ours I will gain lots of experience. If I then logoff and craft hardcore for a couple of hours I will then gain lots of experience for that without affecting the experience gained on the hunter. In Eve there is nothing I can do to make my "active" guy "level" faster...if I start a new guy however, the other is effectively penalized. Actually, EVE levels are a mix-up of ISK and SP. SP is the general "Yes i can!" Bob the builder stuff, mundane, something to pass the time and set goals. ISK, is where the real levelling comes from. Ships, guns, ammo, BPs, food, women, song...all cost ISK and the more ISK you accumulate, the less limits you have. In other MMOs you could have gazillion illion dollies, but still be limited to level 1. In EVE, you can have gazillion billion ISKies and even if ou're still level 1, you can have that level 1 backed by half the universe you just bought. So, seeing as ISK runs the world, you and your grandmother, when you leevel one character, you level all characters. Originally by: Leiara Knight Don't be frightened of stopping the skill training on your 'main' character to try new ones. After all, your characters are much more than just their skill points. Considering most pilots, young and old, especially old, have lost probably a year or two in training already...yeah...it's no biggie to train your alt To say it politely to the OP; "Hell son, i've lost more training time then you've got SP!" My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.

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