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Bounty Idea...Bare With Me

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Hellhound247	Posted - 2009.02.22 07:57:00 - [1] First off, I know there have been many ideas and threads about how to get the bounty system to work. Usually they fall on deaf ears and fail to get anywhere. My idea may go the same way but it's been bugging me for a few days so I wanted to share it. Also, I haven't yet read or seen one like mine, but if there is a similar idea out there I apologize. Feel free to add to it or tear it to pieces. Note: First of all let us assume that anyone with a bounty is/was in negative security status and is considered a criminal of some type (at least in the eyes of CONCORD). So I will refer to people with bounties as criminals for this thread. Okay, that being said my idea revolves around "Bounty Hunter Agents." These would be just like all other agents spread throughout space. They could even be separated into levels as well (based on the difficulty or price of the criminal). The idea is that you go to one of these agents and they give you a bounty hunting mission. They give you the name of a wanted pilot and 24 hours (length is debatable) or so to find and kill him. This pilot is also trackable to you for the duration of the mission, which means you can actually hunt him down and kill him. The tracking system is of course debatable, as in maybe his location is updated every hour instead of constantly. But there should be some easier way of locating him during the mission. The other idea that would go with this is that the only way a bounty can be received is if the criminal is killed by a bounty hunter mission runner. The criminal will also be completely random for each mission. Some people may not like these rules as they cannot receive a bounty if they happen to kill a criminal. However these rules would insure that no alt or friend could collect the bounty. One more thing to add. The bounty hunter is safe as far as engaging the criminal. By that I mean he cannot be LEGALLY attacked by corp mates. Yes, he can be attacked illegally and killed, but there should be some measure of protection for him. This way criminals cannot hide in large groups as easily and it wouldn't be futile for lone hunters to complete the mission. Maybe even more than one bounty hunter could take a mission as well? Anyway, this idea may not be perfect but what it would do is get people to actually be bounty hunters and actively hunt wanted criminals. Adding bounties to people's heads would actually mean something. Security status would also mean more because people could now be actively hunted if a bounty is placed. Thanks for your time. Please comment with thoughts or tear me a new one (I'm off to bed so will check later).
Dark Soldat Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.02.22 09:21:00 - [2] What about no? What if that person loggs off the second you recieve a mission for him? I think most bountys are claimed by accidentaly seeing a -10 with a bounty in high sec afk and pew pewing them or low-sec your choice, or just podding himself with an alt. mitnal took my sig :(
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.22 14:08:00 - [3] /me starts taking his clothes off, and then realises the error -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Cyclicus Remba Gallente Irish Democratic Army	Posted - 2009.02.22 15:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Hellhound247 Please comment with thoughts or tear me a new one It's "Bear With Me", not "Bare With Me". I hope your shortbus gets ganked.
Hellhound247	Posted - 2009.02.22 19:47:00 - [5] Edited by: Hellhound247 on 22/02/2009 19:49:36 Quote: [Dark Soldat]What about no? What if that person loggs off the second you recieve a mission for him? And what's to stop him from logging off anyway? Nothing. Also, the criminal doesn't have to know that someone has a bounty hunting mission on him. So your argument is moot since they can do this already and at least with my idea there will still be bounty hunting kills. Quote: I think most bountys are claimed by accidentaly seeing a -10 with a bounty in high sec afk and pew pewing them or low-sec your choice, or just podding himself with an alt. Umm, right. That's kinda the point to an idea to fix the bounty problem.
Hellhound247	Posted - 2009.02.22 19:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Cyclicus Remba Originally by: Hellhound247 Please comment with thoughts or tear me a new one It's "Bear With Me", not "Bare With Me". I hope your shortbus gets ganked. Congratulations. You managed to find one grammar error in the thread and not bring any significant argument on the subject. That must have been painful for you to think that much. I guess if I ride the short bus, that must make you the driver.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.23 00:27:00 - [7] Originally by: Hellhound247 Originally by: Cyclicus Remba Originally by: Hellhound247 Please comment with thoughts or tear me a new one It's "Bear With Me", not "Bare With Me". I hope your shortbus gets ganked. Congratulations. You managed to find one grammar error in the thread and not bring any significant argument on the subject. That must have been painful for you to think that much. I guess if I ride the short bus, that must make you the driver. He's good at what he does.. Actually, this isn't the worst idea for a new bounty system ever thought up.. I mean it actually DOES take care of the 'pod yourself with an alt' issue, making placing a bounty on someone meaningful rather than free isk for being a bad guy! I can see some flaws that would need to be worked out however.. First 24h isn't usually enough time to hunt a specific person down and kill them even if you do know their home system. You'd need to bump it out to say, 48 hours? This would allow for you not being in the same timezone and missing the guy once. These shouldn't be like normal missions. Level of the agent is pretty much irrelevant unless you can programaticaly work out in advance how hard someone is going to be to kill. People with 100k bounties can be just as hard as people with 100M bounties. Allowing someone to take multiple bounty jobs could be good (ooo.. new skill! +1 job per level!).. NOT a kublai alt. Honest!
MeyerUdat	Posted - 2009.02.23 00:40:00 - [8] Edited by: MeyerUdat on 23/02/2009 00:42:02 Good idea, and its good to see that people havent completely given up hope of a workable bounty system. There are a couple of things that may cause problems IMHO. - What under your system, would stop someone from putting a 10k bounty on him/herself and luring unsuspecting new bounty hunters to thier deaths. - How would aggro work? If I was a lone pirate just getting my career started and sudddenly some loaded miner decides to stick 100m on me because I killed his hulk and he wasnts sweet revenge. Suddenly I have to worry about a fleet of bounty hunters chasing me here there and everywhere. - If you approach the previous problem by saying ONLY the bounty hunter and not his gang can attack the target, most pirates tend to hang out in groups anyway, would be too easy for them to pop bounty hunters one by one. Bounty hunter corps perhaps? Anyway grats to the good idea. EDIT: Fixed some spelling for your viewing pleasure
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.23 03:08:00 - [9] Edited by: Lana Torrin on 23/02/2009 03:10:27 Not the OP but I figure I'd run with this one as im starting to like the idea more and more. (and im bored with trolling for a few days) Originally by: MeyerUdat - What under your system, would stop someone from putting a 10k bounty on him/herself and luring unsuspecting new bounty hunters to thier deaths. I'm guessing nothing. Them's the risks of being a bounty hunter I would say.. If its a trap then its a trap, if your actually quite good at PvP then you could still win (or at least kill your target) and get the cash. Risk/Reward. Originally by: MeyerUdat - How would aggro work? If I was a lone pirate just getting my career started and sudddenly some loaded miner decides to stick 100m on me because I killed his hulk and he wasnts sweet revenge. Suddenly I have to worry about a fleet of bounty hunters chasing me here there and everywhere. If you suddenly have some loaded miner stick 100m bounty on you then you shouldn't have killed that miner. Sucks to be you. As a pirate you should always expect a trap, this is just a new type of trap. Risk/Reward Originally by: MeyerUdat - If you approach the previous problem by saying ONLY the bounty hunter and not his gang can attack the target, most pirates tend to hang out in groups anyway, would be too easy for them to pop bounty hunters one by one. Bounty hunter corps perhaps? I would have no problem with "only the bounty hunter gets the cash, but he only needs to be on the killmail to get it", ie he doesn't need to have the final blow. This would allow him to bring along his corp and dish out the cash after the kill (or whatever other arrangement the corp wants to do). Edit: Fail at quoting. fixored. NOT a kublai alt. Honest!
Avan Sercedos The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.02.23 03:24:00 - [10] Whoa. There are definitely some issues here that could use some ironing out, but I like the idea overall. For example: what if the target simply doesn't log in for the duration? Is the bounty hunter going to take the standings hit that one normally gets for failing a mission even though they had no chance to get the kill?
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.23 03:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Avan Sercedos Whoa. There are definitely some issues here that could use some ironing out, but I like the idea overall. For example: what if the target simply doesn't log in for the duration? Is the bounty hunter going to take the standings hit that one normally gets for failing a mission even though they had no chance to get the kill? Yeah, that's pretty much why I suggested DON'T do them like normal missions. 1 at a time (or more if you feel like having a new skill), no penalty for not finishing (have them expire after x time but you cant hand them in early to stop you keep picking a new one over and over till you get a target you know/like), no standing required (ok, maybe positive sec status), target is picked at random from people with bounties in your region and there is nothing stopping 2 hunters from getting the same target. NOT a kublai alt. Honest!
White Chasm Caldari Blood In Blood Out	Posted - 2009.02.23 05:18:00 - [12] I gotta say, I like this idea. It will give a reason for people to bounty other than the moron noobs who don't realize they are giving away their isk, or bounty on oneself to stroke ones e-peen (i.e. the current system). And no, I'm not on steroids.
Silent Sins Deliciously Vicious	Posted - 2009.02.23 06:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Lana Torrin (and im bored with trolling for a few days) This shocked me so much I had to actually go back and read the OP. I like this idea. A lot. Kudos for something worth thinking about. ------------------------------ ******************** ------------------------------
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.02.23 07:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Cyclicus Remba Originally by: Hellhound247 Please comment with thoughts or tear me a new one It's "Bear With Me", not "Bare With Me". I hope your shortbus gets ganked. Definitely _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101
Hellhound247	Posted - 2009.02.23 08:08:00 - [15] Thanks for replying and adding to the topic, everyone. I think if we can put our heads together we may be able to flesh out a pretty good fix to the bounty system. Lana answered most of the questions very well and added some great ideas. Increasing the time limit on the mission sounds good and so does the idea of perhaps a new skill. Heck, you need skills to get into most facets of EvE, so why not bounty hunting? Maybe the higher skills you have in this area the more missions you can run at once? Maybe even have a tracking skill that you can actually train and get better at finding your targets. As far as the problem of the criminal not logging in or simply logging off: this wouldn't really be a problem for two reasons. One, it doesn't really matter if he logs off because he can always have a chance at being a target of some random bounty hunter. If he has a bounty he will always have a chance at being hunted, so if he wants to be safe, don't become a criminal. Second, it wouldn't really matter to the bounty hunters as they may have more than one mission they are running. Basically there will always be targets to be had. Again, this whole bounty hunter agent idea is not perfect and I'm sure there would be ways around it. However, if a system like this was in place it would be better than what we have now...which is pretty much nothing. So keep the ideas coming and maybe we can figure something out together that most people will agree with.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.23 11:02:00 - [16] I thought it was a pretty cool idea in the rough basics, but it has loads of issues to sort. * Time - what if your criminal is MIA since months back and never logs in? The agents that create these missions need to make sure the criminals are active for a first. And still you'd need quite a long timeline, that player might be gone for the weekend to visit his gf's parents, or pick his nose while playing xbox, who knows. * Locator - can't put a heavy stress on the server, think of the bounty from rats. We now get them bundled up every 20mins rather than instantly. Locator agents has a delay, sometimes market orders has as well. Obviously this would need to be put in effect as well. That's just for starters, but the idea itself in the core is interesting.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.23 11:18:00 - [17] Keep the 24 or 48H limit, but make it 24 or 48H that the criminal is actually logged in. So if he ganks then goes on holiday for a month, the bounty is still active when he gets back.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.23 11:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Malcanis Keep the 24 or 48H limit, but make it 24 or 48H that the criminal is actually logged in. So if he ganks then goes on holiday for a month, the bounty is still active when he gets back. Probably not needed, but for clarification; that works - if the timer is when both the hunter and the criminal is logged in. Else you end up with a similar timeline issue as I mentioned above, just reversed situation.
Dotard Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:25:00 - [19] Transferable kill rights anyone?
MeyerUdat	Posted - 2009.02.23 14:36:00 - [20] While im all for transferrable kill rights, IMO they would work well alongside one another for example: Transferrable kill rights would require a ship loss, where the bounty system requires only negative security status for the target and ISK. Perhaps in some way these two ideas could work if combined?
Lord Cath	Posted - 2009.02.23 15:07:00 - [21] I kinda like where this is going. I mean, the bounty system now is so gimped that it might as well be removed from the game completely. This might actualy work pretty decently when finetuned... nice one...
Dax Ee'nnach Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.23 15:37:00 - [22] I'm not sure why there has to be a time limit such as 24/48hours on this "mission". The idea that instead of a Bounty Office, you have Bounty Hunter agentsm why couldn't you use the same mechanics of missions - the mission offer is good for 1 week. Additionally, there doesn't have to be any hit for failing in that week - just the mission expires and now you have to request a new bounty. The agent AI should be able to hand out bounty targets based on last logged on/duration logged on sort of statistics from the database, so if a criminal has left the game/been on haitus for a week, they won't be offered up as a target. This system of bounty hunter agents can also work along the lines of locator agents for anyone on a bounty mission (here you could use faction standing, i.e. the bounty agents of a particular faction will only locate/mission for those of non-hostile standing). for example, The mission is handed out along with the last system the criminal docked in. The bounty hunter goes there and doesn't see the criminal, check starmap services and find the nearest bounty hunter office, go the office and convo the agent who has an option to "locate mission target". Again, this will give you last know system or station of the target. You can figure out for yourself if the guy is logged in or not after agents confirm he was in a system. Since the agent gives out the mission, you remove the "pod self" part of bounty. The agent can hand out the same target to anyone, so the bounty hunter is competing with other hunters which removes any "bounty target camping" (getting a mission target to 'block' someone else from getting that target). A hunter should be able to get multiple targets from different agents maybe limited by some factor of corp/faction standing or some skill. This allows for a target being offline for a long time, the hunter can still be busy finding other targets. If one mission expires (or is dropped by the player), there doesn't have to be a downside since this is ultimately pvp and not pve. One problem I can see with this is "bounty griefing". Someone going in an putting bounties on random characters just so that other players will gank them (since the bounty system would allow you to attack a target LEGALLY in hisec). Some limit on how/why you can put a bounty on someone is needed - like only if you have aggression or kill rights?
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.24 00:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Dax Ee'nnach One problem I can see with this is "bounty griefing". Someone going in an putting bounties on random characters just so that other players will gank them (since the bounty system would allow you to attack a target LEGALLY in hisec). Griefing pirates?! Say it aint so! NOT a kublai alt. Honest!
Dire Radiant	Posted - 2009.02.24 01:46:00 - [24] Thumbs Up! Get some CSM action on this and make it happen.
Hellhound247	Posted - 2009.02.24 08:15:00 - [25] (Dax Ee'nnach covered a few of the points nicely, but I'll go ahead and give my two cents as well) Okay, about the problem with whether targets are active or not. This is a game so real life will obviously make it where people will not be on for long durations. This problem can be taken care of with a "Criminal Database." This database would include the names of everyone in EvE with a bounty. It will also keep track of activity of the players. Players that are inactive for a certain amount of time should not come up as a mission target. This will ensure that most targets are active players. Now of course there could be players that just log in to train or log but don't play much. This can be overcome with the idea of hunters having the ability of having multiple targets. Perhaps the hunter is given a list of random criminals and he can choose certain ones. Either way there can be a system that ensures there will be active targets for bounty hunters. I also agree that bounty hunter agents/missions shouldn't work quite the same as normal. I do not think there should be penalties for not completing the mission. There is already a downside to that...you end up wasting your time and you don't get any ISK. That in and of itself is punishment. Perhaps you can get positive standings with the agents though, if you complete missions often. Maybe bonus ISK or other perks. There is one thing I disagree with some people on, and that is the fear of "bounty griefing" or unfair advantages for the people with bounties...and that there should be a certain protection of placing bounties on people. My answer is...huh? Technically speaking, bounties can only be placed on people with low security status. People with low security status get that way by committing CRIMES. They choose to become criminals. I can't think of a reason to have sympathy for a person with low sec status since it can be easily avoided. So I fail to see why this should be a problem. I will also add that even though this system will actually create bounty hunters in an environment where they can actually hunt and kill criminals, it will not be easy. For people or corps who want to be full time bounty hunters, it will be a difficult life and most may not make enough ISK to do it full time. It's kinda like low-sec pirates. They have many disadvantages and it can be hard to earn ISK, but people still do it (for fun). As far as targeting/tracking goes, I'm not 100% sure about that but I'm sure there can be ways to do it. Locater agents of course make sense. Perhaps there could even be a new system of tracking. These are criminals being hunted, right? So what about a new station NPC that's tied to the bounty system, called "informants." That's what's used in the real criminal world, why not here? Maybe these informants can give more detailed locations of where the target has been in the course of a certain amount of time. This is just one idea so I'm sure we could come up with something reasonable. So far you guys have added some great ideas and good questions, so thanks. However, I still have not seen any definitive obstacle that would completely kill the bounty hunter agent idea, so keep 'em coming! :)
Lord Cath	Posted - 2009.02.24 08:41:00 - [26] Originally by: Dax Ee'nnach One problem I can see with this is "bounty griefing". Someone going in an putting bounties on random characters just so that other players will gank them (since the bounty system would allow you to attack a target LEGALLY in hisec). Some limit on how/why you can put a bounty on someone is needed - like only if you have aggression or kill rights? Why not put a cap on the bounty. like at least a 10mil bounty, this will proly stop some (stress some) pirates from random putting bounties on people, also would make the effort more worthwile and bountyhunters wouldnt have to deal with the "hey ive put a 10k bounty on myself to look like a piwate" kind of people...
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Malcanis Keep the 24 or 48H limit, but make it 24 or 48H that the criminal is actually logged in. So if he ganks then goes on holiday for a month, the bounty is still active when he gets back. Probably not needed, but for clarification; that works - if the timer is when both the hunter and the criminal is logged in. Else you end up with a similar timeline issue as I mentioned above, just reversed situation. Ah good point, yes I agree.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Dax Ee'nnach I'm not sure why there has to be a time limit such as 24/48hours on this "mission". The idea that instead of a Bounty Office, you have Bounty Hunter agentsm why couldn't you use the same mechanics of missions - the mission offer is good for 1 week. Additionally, there doesn't have to be any hit for failing in that week - just the mission expires and now you have to request a new bounty. The agent AI should be able to hand out bounty targets based on last logged on/duration logged on sort of statistics from the database, so if a criminal has left the game/been on haitus for a week, they won't be offered up as a target. This system of bounty hunter agents can also work along the lines of locator agents for anyone on a bounty mission (here you could use faction standing, i.e. the bounty agents of a particular faction will only locate/mission for those of non-hostile standing). for example, The mission is handed out along with the last system the criminal docked in. The bounty hunter goes there and doesn't see the criminal, check starmap services and find the nearest bounty hunter office, go the office and convo the agent who has an option to "locate mission target". Again, this will give you last know system or station of the target. You can figure out for yourself if the guy is logged in or not after agents confirm he was in a system. Since the agent gives out the mission, you remove the "pod self" part of bounty. The agent can hand out the same target to anyone, so the bounty hunter is competing with other hunters which removes any "bounty target camping" (getting a mission target to 'block' someone else from getting that target). A hunter should be able to get multiple targets from different agents maybe limited by some factor of corp/faction standing or some skill. This allows for a target being offline for a long time, the hunter can still be busy finding other targets. If one mission expires (or is dropped by the player), there doesn't have to be a downside since this is ultimately pvp and not pve. One problem I can see with this is "bounty griefing". Someone going in an putting bounties on random characters just so that other players will gank them (since the bounty system would allow you to attack a target LEGALLY in hisec). Some limit on how/why you can put a bounty on someone is needed - like only if you have aggression or kill rights? Actually "bounty griefing" would have the effect of being a personal wardec. Would solve a lot of the problems of people hiding in NPC corps...
Tuberider Caldari Pothouse Cartel IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:18:00 - [29] Why not just jump too low sec and kill us there's a new idea!! oh no's its scarey or do you think it should be easier. Its not like us criminals (if prefere too call us liberators of stupid peoples isk for this thread )got a big red sign saying shoot me anywhere already or anything like that, oh wait we have by all means send more peeps too their slaughter. how are you going too keep my corp from killing the mission bounty hunter anyways,its not like concord can step in, we live in low sec there is no concord Nobody would ever take the missions So you pull a mission and have too go 35 jumps enter low sec and kill a pirate, it aint going too happen and you know it. its easy, pop my pod you get my bounty. can't catch my pod ? well hows this going too change that? as far as i see there is only one thing wrong with the system, the peeps that claim it with an alt. most of us wear it with pride, its there as a prize/incentive for peeps too engage. My base is in Eruka come camp us I suck
Samuel Wess	Posted - 2009.02.24 12:54:00 - [30] You can't catch pods in empire. what could work: register as a bounty hunter and can freely shoot players with bounty anywhere players with bounty should see the bounty hunters clearly You still can't catch pods in empire. me

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