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EVE Metrics - Better than EVE Central

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Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2009.02.23 17:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Hel O'Ween As it reads, the limit is per developer key, per hour. This means that if one user does 20 lookups, all other users are out of business for the next one hour. This for sure can't be the intended outcome. This is clearly a matter for Ambo to look into - one solution would be for him to add the option to enter your own key into EMMA. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.23 23:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Originally by: Hel O'Ween As it reads, the limit is per developer key, per hour. This means that if one user does 20 lookups, all other users are out of business for the next one hour. This for sure can't be the intended outcome. This is clearly a matter for Ambo to look into - one solution would be for him to add the option to enter your own key into EMMA. I think this would probably be the solution, I'll keep trying to get Ix Forres to get in here and post a little. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Patri Andari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2009.02.24 01:42:00 - [33] Originally by: Hexxx I think this would probably be the solution, I'll keep trying to get Ix Forres to get in here and post a little. PlEaSe. Patri A fool usually thinks he is a genius
Niedar MASS	Posted - 2009.02.24 04:58:00 - [34] Im not able to get it to work with the cache, its reading the export files fine though. When I first start the application there is this error in the log. Unable to Cast Type: The specified module could not be found. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8007007E) at .Initialize() at TrayUploader.Form1.Register(IPlugin ipi) at .set_Host(IPluginHost ) at TrayUploader.Form1.Start(String args) Unable to load assembly: ManagedZLib
Togen Lei Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.02.24 06:14:00 - [35] Edited by: Togen Lei on 24/02/2009 06:14:06 I started using this today, and it seems to work well. I'm gonna play with it a bit more in the coming days
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec	Posted - 2009.02.24 07:00:00 - [36] Well looking at the website, or rather trying to.. everything is messed up.. Stuff dont load, and site locks up and drops you to error pages.. Cant even get to see what exactly should convince me to use it.. They need to do some marketing stunt and take things down till it works 100% Its trust undermining and potential biz breaking to have something that gives bad publicity.. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Ix Forres Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.02.24 07:35:00 - [37] Originally by: Hel O'Ween Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Originally by: No Profit Ah bugger, just read this: Quote: By default resources are permitted 20 calls per hour at absolute most per (application developer) key That sinks EMMA right off the bat. No, it just means you have to generate a single query for lots of items at once. You're not limited to a single typeID (or region) per query. And how should we know if and when one of our users clicks on the button to retrieve data? As it reads, the limit is per developer key, per hour. This means that if one user does 20 lookups, all other users are out of business for the next one hour. This for sure can't be the intended outcome. This limit is being removed in an update. Most API calls won't require a developer key any more, either, and there's a few new API methods to choose from. The invalid XML is a bug and will be fixed shortly. Some pages on the site will produce errors; unfortunately it's more or less impossible to test every part of the site without data to run it on, but rest assured every time you see an error page I get an email with debug info so I can fix that error. I'm working through it all and getting it straightened out as fast as I can. I will get around to answering other questions; gotta dash for now, but I'll be back with more answers later! -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense \| EVE Metrics (NEW) \| I Tweet
Ambo EMMA Test Corp	Posted - 2009.02.24 08:20:00 - [38] Sounds great. I look forward to being able to integrate this site with EMMA fully. -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
Nick Turing	Posted - 2009.02.24 08:48:00 - [39] Regarding the offline sc****r: I'm quite happy to write it and sell it to anyone who wants to pay me 2 billion isk. ;) Contact me ingame if you're interested enough, and serious.
Kiay Stryx Gallente Phoenix Mandate	Posted - 2009.02.24 09:39:00 - [40] Hello, I'm currently building a full corp/alliance management web application and currently using EVE Central. How wide spread and used is EVE Metrics so far? Are you planning on offering full API support to developers such as myself? I see you have an API system, but I'm more concerned about the future of the API. If so I'd be happy to switch my system from EVE Central to EVE Metrics, and offer recognition when the system is complete. Aside from corp/alliance management, I am developing a full manufacturing calculator, market production analysis, kill boards, etc. Because of this I will require allot of price data. What are your future plans for API access and usage? Will developers have more freedom regarding limits? How often is the data updated? Thanks. ~Stryx
Hel O'Ween Aliastra	Posted - 2009.02.24 10:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Ix Forres This limit is being removed in an update. Most API calls won't require a developer key any more, either, and there's a few new API methods to choose from. The invalid XML is a bug and will be fixed shortly. Cool! Like Ambo, I'm looking forward to integrate EVE Metrics' data feed into my application. Just post when you're done with the new API, so that we can find out if we need a developer key or not. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.02.24 11:41:00 - [42] Thanks for the hard work, Ix. Just to add to what I've said before, now that I've had some time to play with the uploader some more I have some advice. 1) There seems to be a bug in the "Start with Windows" option. At one point I had two Run keys in the registry for the Uploader; I suspect this has to do with said option writing the keys slightly differently depending on whether it was written by the installer or by the application itself. In other words, the client doesn't seem to recognize when the installer has already written a Run key to have the client load with Windows. 2) The client needs a switch (in the CLI sense) to start up minimized. Right now when the client is set to load with Windows, it loads as a normal (windowed) application and needs to be minimized by the user to get it out of the way. It would probably be better for the client to start up minimized, hence the need for a switch and for the client to write a Run key with that switch. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf
J'i Ta	Posted - 2009.02.24 12:39:00 - [43] Originally by: Niedar Im not able to get it to work with the cache, its reading the export files fine though. When I first start the application there is this error in the log. Unable to Cast Type: The specified module could not be found. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8007007E) at .Initialize() at TrayUploader.Form1.Register(IPlugin ipi) at .set_Host(IPluginHost ) at TrayUploader.Form1.Start(String args) Unable to load assembly: ManagedZLib Same error here, whatever obfuscation/packing you're using is breaking loading of CRUDE.dll for some of us. I did have a quick poke to see if I could find the magic bits that decode the cache files, good job making them un-findable
Kiay Stryx Gallente Phoenix Mandate	Posted - 2009.02.24 13:09:00 - [44] Played with the API for a bit. Needs allot of work. Though your program is nicer than EVE Central, their API is much better for the moment. I do like the site design, and your app. ~Stryx
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.24 13:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Ix Forres This limit is being removed in an update. Most API calls won't require a developer key any more, either, and there's a few new API methods to choose from. The invalid XML is a bug and will be fixed shortly. Some pages on the site will produce errors; unfortunately it's more or less impossible to test every part of the site without data to run it on, but rest assured every time you see an error page I get an email with debug info so I can fix that error. I'm working through it all and getting it straightened out as fast as I can. I will get around to answering other questions; gotta dash for now, but I'll be back with more answers later! Looking forward to development on this, it has some great potential here to be a very great tool.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.02.24 13:41:00 - [46] Originally by: Daphne Eveningstar Edited by: Daphne Eveningstar on 23/02/2009 09:50:44 Quote: Browsing market order pages will upload order info, and browsing the history graph/table page will upload history info. That's from the page for their uploader utility All I can say is wow. I guess Bacon required the debugger to be running didn't it? If this is stated by CCP to be a legal use of the client cache than let me be the first to offer up a bounty of 2 billion for a local exe version of the same functionality. I want every market lookup I make (across multiple accounts and hosts/clients) stored in a local MSSQL database for quick analysis of both the current picture and the historic data. This too would interest me and would go half in you 2b bounty for a copy of this tool. I would have a single stipulation however, that this tool keep it's own history as well as a "History" from the table/graph page. As these tables/Graphs do not show how much at each level an item was purchased for. It just shows the quantity of trades regardless of buy/sell/price, and what the highest order was, the lowest order was, and the average. Although this info is important having accurate records about how much was purchased at what price allows weighted averages which is by far more important then the average of two bunk orders. I really dislike the fact that I could fill an order for 100,000 unit at 0.01 ISK and 1 unit at 10,000,000,000 ISK and the average be 5,000,000,000.01. That's stupidity to the extreme. Amarr for Life
J'i Ta	Posted - 2009.02.24 17:54:00 - [47] Originally by: SencneS I really dislike the fact that I could fill an order for 100,000 unit at 0.01 ISK and 1 unit at 10,000,000,000 ISK and the average be 5,000,000,000.01. That's stupidity to the extreme. That's the very definition of an average, if you think another stat would be more useful then specify one.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.02.24 18:09:00 - [48] Originally by: J'i Ta Originally by: SencneS I really dislike the fact that I could fill an order for 100,000 unit at 0.01 ISK and 1 unit at 10,000,000,000 ISK and the average be 5,000,000,000.01. That's stupidity to the extreme. That's the very definition of an average, if you think another stat would be more useful then specify one. That's one possible definition of average. For that example, a mean weighted by unit count (99,999.01 ISK) or a median (0.01 ISK) might be more informative.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.24 18:18:00 - [49] Edited by: Akita T on 24/02/2009 18:21:09 Awesome, +1 user Now... if only it would also check, use and upload the cache of "regional history" too ... now, THAT would be "awesome-er" _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Ix Forres Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.02.24 18:44:00 - [50] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 24/02/2009 18:21:09 Awesome, +1 user Now... if only it would also check, use and upload the cache of "regional history" too ... now, THAT would be "awesome-er" If you mean the history as in the data used to generate the graphs- view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though. We've got somewhere around 600,000 historic data points for movements, orders and prices, along with just over 600,000 orders uploaded to the system so far. Obviously this hasn't been fully released quite yet, and this push is a big step in ramping up the number of users and working out the kinks associated with it. Of course, with more data comes better results, and that's being improved right now; I'm planning an evening of debugging tonight, though! I'll throw the reports about the uploader not working over to Salvis Tallan; he's the guy who has put that together for the site, so that's his problem . Originally by: Kiay Stryx Played with the API for a bit. Needs allot of work. Though your program is nicer than EVE Central, their API is much better for the moment. Gotta agree on this right now, but the next version should fix that. Next version introduces full order list dumps as well as a 'check price' method which is designed for tools that want to grab the price of an item or many items at once; it's also filterable by regions (default is highsec regions) or to a given system (for jita prices etc). Existing APIs will be getting some rewrite love, too. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense \| EVE Metrics (NEW) \| I Tweet
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.24 18:57:00 - [51] Originally by: Ix Forres view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though. Yeah, that... it was just a mistaken assumption on my part when the server hicked-up (see edits above)... I suppose you're just swamped by the deluge of people putting orders up and checking your site at the moment thanks to this thread On that note... is the server down for upgrade/maintenance reasons, or is it really just overloaded ? How much CPU usage do you get, how do you think will it scale later on, etc ? _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Ix Forres Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.02.24 19:14:00 - [52] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Ix Forres view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though. Yeah, that... it was just a mistaken assumption on my part when the server hicked-up (see edits above)... I suppose you're just swamped by the deluge of people putting orders up and checking your site at the moment thanks to this thread On that note... is the server down for upgrade/maintenance reasons, or is it really just overloaded ? How much CPU usage do you get, how do you think will it scale later on, etc ? Really overloaded right now; the server's only a little on and it keeps running out of RAM. I'm working on a solution right now. Expect it to be alive again tomorrow at latest. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense \| EVE Metrics (NEW) \| I Tweet
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.24 19:22:00 - [53] Also, I noticed something weird with the uploader so I'll have to check with you... I have the "delete after upload" selected (you know, to ease the load in case I want to do a "force upload"), and did quite a bunch of in-game browsing. Obviously, there was quite a bit of timeouts and so on and so forth, and I also accidentally closed the uploader (got used with evemon and the fact it only closes from tray), tried to do a "force upload" for the rest of thingies not up yet due to the server crash... but now the uploader says it finds nothing (yet there should be plenty not yet uploaded)... plus, in-game, I still get the cached data on the history graph (no delay on load as opposed to a second or so delay on first uncached load). Will the uploader eventually recognize the cached data or not ? Of course, we could simply log off, wipe the EVE cache, start everything from scratch as a "worst case" scenario, but... meh. So the question is, how does the uploader handle all of this, and what should OUR "best practice" be in such cases ? _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.24 19:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Ix Forres Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Ix Forres view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though. Yeah, that... it was just a mistaken assumption on my part when the server hicked-up (see edits above)... I suppose you're just swamped by the deluge of people putting orders up and checking your site at the moment thanks to this thread On that note... is the server down for upgrade/maintenance reasons, or is it really just overloaded ? How much CPU usage do you get, how do you think will it scale later on, etc ? Really overloaded right now; the server's only a little on and it keeps running out of RAM. I'm working on a solution right now. Expect it to be alive again tomorrow at latest. Ix, what are your hosting needs. Im the processes of getting one setup right now and would be more than willing to offer space on it.
ZeusOnRoids	Posted - 2009.02.24 19:46:00 - [55] err...dumb question: what does ERAP/ERAM mean?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.24 20:48:00 - [56] Originally by: ZeusOnRoids err...dumb question: what does ERAP/ERAM mean? "Notes on the indexes EVE Metrics provides several indexes built from different data sources. These are ERAP (EVE Reported Average Price), ERAM (EVE Reported Average Movement) and EMCP (EVE Metrics Computed Price) ERAP/ERAM indexes are compiled from the average prices/movement, as shown on the market history page (as a graph or table ingame). You should view this page ingame to upload new data. EMCP is compiled from market orders, as reported to EVE Metrics by users running the EVE Metrics Uploader. Only reliable (cache, not log) updates are used for indexes to ensure indexes are not tampered with by data insertion. In nearly all cases, ERAP is likely to be a more reliable average. However, EMCP by it's nature often reflects more accurately trends in the market, and as such remains a useful indicator." Says so on the box _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.02.24 20:56:00 - [57] Originally by: J'i Ta Originally by: SencneS I really dislike the fact that I could fill an order for 100,000 unit at 0.01 ISK and 1 unit at 10,000,000,000 ISK and the average be 5,000,000,000.01. That's stupidity to the extreme. That's the very definition of an average, if you think another stat would be more useful then specify one. The Thoraemond guy answered the question already but basic average is stupid when dealing with quantity. One dumb pilot adds two zeros to the end of an order for one unit and it screws the average up because it's now the higher buy order. Imagine if every day I goto Jita and buy one trit for 100 ISK. Now my one unit of trit is the highest buy price, according to the average it would look like Trit is sold on average for ~52 ISK. Now the Market window works out mean weighted unit average when placing or buying the item (regional average). However the little charts are totally screwed up because I'm an ass-hat buying one unit of trit for 100 isk a day every day for a month Amarr for Life
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2009.02.24 21:02:00 - [58] Some of the statistics need some refining but this has tremendous potential. Kwint Industries has signed up.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.24 22:56:00 - [59] I'd seriously suggest feeding the 7-day, 30-day (and maybe also the 1-year) ERAP/ERAM into the market "detailed orders per item" pages, for all items. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.24 23:04:00 - [60] Originally by: Ix Forres Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Ix Forres view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though. Yeah, that... it was just a mistaken assumption on my part when the server hicked-up (see edits above)... I suppose you're just swamped by the deluge of people putting orders up and checking your site at the moment thanks to this thread On that note... is the server down for upgrade/maintenance reasons, or is it really just overloaded ? How much CPU usage do you get, how do you think will it scale later on, etc ? Really overloaded right now; the server's only a little on and it keeps running out of RAM. I'm working on a solution right now. Expect it to be alive again tomorrow at latest. Tell us what your needs are and we'll make it happen. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net

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