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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 08:11:00 -
[1]
http://www.eve-metrics.com/
This is a website similar in function to EVE Central, with one important difference; it includes a tool that automatically uploads any market data you view while playing EVE. It does this by "scraping" the cache files that EVE uses when you view the market details for anything. No fuss, no muss, just automatic feeds of data.
There is also security that prevents false market data from entering the database and some extremely useful reporting and statistic tools. In the future, they plan on having an API for developers to use.
Check out the website, check out the reports, check out how awesome this is!
All this from Ix Forres, the guy who created IskSense.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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MK Dom
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:01:00 -
[2]
Auto loading the market info is wftbbqpwng!
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:17:00 -
[3]
Originally by: MK Dom Auto loading the market info is wftbbqpwng!
In a word; yes.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:19:00 -
[4]
So, to clarify, there's no need to spam 'export data' for every item? Sounds good. Has Ix checked that using cache files in this way is EULA-safe?
I'm sceptical about the security features - if you can read cache files, someone else can probably write to them if they really want to try to poison the database. Also, it lacks some of the flexibility of the eve-central API - the option to restrict API queries to a single station or solarsystem seems to be missing.
Having said all that, it certainly looks promising. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Daphne Eveningstar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:25:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Daphne Eveningstar on 23/02/2009 09:25:33 Edit: Assuming this is automated and no "export to file" spamming is needed,
There was a guy about this time last year making a tool that used these same files to do some automated price analysis. It was deemed a EULA violation.
tbh I'm concerned that CCP hasn't locked down those data streams to prevent this. Either make it legal and official (and automatic) or do something to disable the functionality (ala Bacon).
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro So, to clarify, there's no need to spam 'export data' for every item? Sounds good. Has Ix checked that using cache files in this way is EULA-safe?
I'm sceptical about the security features - if you can read cache files, someone else can probably write to them if they really want to try to poison the database. Also, it lacks some of the flexibility of the eve-central API - the option to restrict API queries to a single station or solarsystem seems to be missing.
Having said all that, it certainly looks promising.
He uses some kind of checksum to verify authenticity of the cache file. I'm not clear on the details but I believe it to be effective.
In terms of restricting the queries on stations or solar systems...markets operate best when they're efficient. Transparency breeds efficiency. So this program seems to operate in the best interests of a transparent/efficient market.
The most useful function isn't the solarsystem specific sell/buy orders but instead the indexes created from all these orders. I noticed that some of them are down right now, but the promise of nearly automatically created indexes is....well....incredibly promising.
Indexes like those could be used as the foundation for futures contracts on minerals for example. This is just one of many possible uses.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Alaki Kant
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:26:00 -
[7]
It might be allowed to read the cache files, but it would be an EULA violation to write to them.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Daphne Eveningstar Edited by: Daphne Eveningstar on 23/02/2009 09:25:33 Edit: Assuming this is automated and no "export to file" spamming is needed,
There was a guy about this time last year making a tool that used these same files to do some automated price analysis. It was deemed a EULA violation.
tbh I'm concerned that CCP hasn't locked down those data streams to prevent this. Either make it legal and official (and automatic) or do something to disable the functionality (ala Bacon).
From what I understand he's not messing with the client (the executable, DLLs, etc) but instead clear-text files. This is probably how he's getting around the EULA.
He's not editing anything, just reading some clear-text files.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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ZeusOnRoids
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:41:00 -
[9]
this is a great tool, but its usability depends completely on the number of poeple running the uploader. so, come on trader, let it run
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Daphne Eveningstar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 09:50:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Daphne Eveningstar on 23/02/2009 09:50:44
Quote: Browsing market order pages will upload order info, and browsing the history graph/table page will upload history info.
That's from the page for their uploader utility
All I can say is wow. I guess Bacon required the debugger to be running didn't it?
If this is stated by CCP to be a legal use of the client cache than let me be the first to offer up a bounty of 2 billion for a local exe version of the same functionality. I want every market lookup I make (across multiple accounts and hosts/clients) stored in a local MSSQL database for quick analysis of both the current picture and the historic data.
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Marcus D'Eriellius
Gallente Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.23 10:05:00 -
[11]
You mention there will be developer APIs in the future but the documentation already mentions them.
However, querying via API produces invalid XML:
<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8' ?> <evemetrics api_version='1.1'> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <evemetrics api_version="1.0"> <region name="The Forge"> <type name="Tritanium" id="34">4.14710945273632</type> <type name="Pyerite" id="35">3.90247984496124</type> <type name="Mexallon" id="36">24.9396716981132</type>
</region> </evemetrics> </evemetrics>
Secondly, would it be possible to have some method to ignore the outliers in the data, either copy the minQ parameter from Eve-Central or, better yet, have a way of getting the 95% price as the Jitaindex used to calculate?
Great work, look forward to implementing it :)
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 10:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Marcus D'Eriellius You mention there will be developer APIs in the future but the documentation already mentions them.
However, querying via API produces invalid XML:
<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8' ?> <evemetrics api_version='1.1'> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <evemetrics api_version="1.0"> <region name="The Forge"> <type name="Tritanium" id="34">4.14710945273632</type> <type name="Pyerite" id="35">3.90247984496124</type> <type name="Mexallon" id="36">24.9396716981132</type>
</region> </evemetrics> </evemetrics>
Secondly, would it be possible to have some method to ignore the outliers in the data, either copy the minQ parameter from Eve-Central or, better yet, have a way of getting the 95% price as the Jitaindex used to calculate?
Great work, look forward to implementing it :)
I think you need a Developer Key to use the API for it.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 10:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Daphne Eveningstar Edited by: Daphne Eveningstar on 23/02/2009 09:50:44
Quote: Browsing market order pages will upload order info, and browsing the history graph/table page will upload history info.
That's from the page for their uploader utility
All I can say is wow. I guess Bacon required the debugger to be running didn't it?
If this is stated by CCP to be a legal use of the client cache than let me be the first to offer up a bounty of 2 billion for a local exe version of the same functionality. I want every market lookup I make (across multiple accounts and hosts/clients) stored in a local MSSQL database for quick analysis of both the current picture and the historic data.
Why would you want local? Just grab the uploader, upload tons of stuff, and view the information along with all the other updates from all the other people!!
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 11:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ZeusOnRoids this is a great tool, but its usability depends completely on the number of poeple running the uploader. so, come on trader, let it run
Yes, the number of people increases the value of the utility. Sounds like Network Effects to me! Bottom line, this thing becomes EXPONENTIALLY more valuable the more people download and install the uploader utility.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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ChiTrade
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Posted - 2009.02.23 11:27:00 -
[15]
+1 user here
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Marcus D'Eriellius
Gallente Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.23 11:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: Marcus D'Eriellius You mention there will be developer APIs in the future but the documentation already mentions them.
However, querying via API produces invalid XML:
<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8' ?> <evemetrics api_version='1.1'> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <evemetrics api_version="1.0"> <region name="The Forge"> <type name="Tritanium" id="34">4.14710945273632</type> <type name="Pyerite" id="35">3.90247984496124</type> <type name="Mexallon" id="36">24.9396716981132</type>
</region> </evemetrics> </evemetrics>
Secondly, would it be possible to have some method to ignore the outliers in the data, either copy the minQ parameter from Eve-Central or, better yet, have a way of getting the 95% price as the Jitaindex used to calculate?
Great work, look forward to implementing it :)
I think you need a Developer Key to use the API for it.
You do. I've got one.
The invalid bit is that it defines the XML schema twice. One at the beginning <?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8' ?> then later on <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>. My parser is choking on this.
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Highlord Nicolai
Amarr GK inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:10:00 -
[17]
I prophecize that given this works the way I think it does, will end trading as we know it. Margins will be ruined, and only the big fish will remain.
Apocalypes is apon us!
I have spoken.. ------------------------------------------------
"Believe you can or cant, either way your right", If you can figure this sentence out, your life will be complete. Thats the truth! |
No Profit
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:34:00 -
[18]
Edited by: No Profit on 23/02/2009 12:36:19
Interesting.
Ah bugger, just read this:
Quote: By default resources are permitted 20 calls per hour at absolute most per (application developer) key
That sinks EMMA right off the bat.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:48:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 23/02/2009 12:47:50
Originally by: Hexxx In terms of restricting the queries on stations or solar systems...markets operate best when they're efficient. Transparency breeds efficiency. So this program seems to operate in the best interests of a transparent/efficient market.
The most useful function isn't the solarsystem specific sell/buy orders but instead the indexes created from all these orders. I noticed that some of them are down right now, but the promise of nearly automatically created indexes is....well....incredibly promising.
Believe it or not, some of us do actually need detailed and up-to-the-minute information. For low-end minerals in particular, location is crucial, as the costs of transportation are significant. This type of API linked into an XML map is one of the fastest ways to get market data into a spreadsheet; the eve-metrics API could (and should) support such requests, as it will attract more users. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: No Profit Ah bugger, just read this:
Quote: By default resources are permitted 20 calls per hour at absolute most per (application developer) key
That sinks EMMA right off the bat.
No, it just means you have to generate a single query for lots of items at once. You're not limited to a single typeID (or region) per query.
--- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:21:00 -
[21]
My market metric addon client thingo died on me whilst playing COD4 |
Krathos Morpheus
Gallente Legion Infernal Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: ZeusOnRoids this is a great tool, but its usability depends completely on the number of poeple running the uploader. so, come on trader, let it run
Yes, the number of people increases the value of the utility. Sounds like Network Effects to me! Bottom line, this thing becomes EXPONENTIALLY more valuable the more people download and install the uploader utility.
I discovered this tool some time ago, but discouraged by it having less data than eve-central, I'll give it another try hoping that it gets enough users. This is a great tool. EVE Knowledge |
Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:39:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Verite Rendition on 23/02/2009 13:38:52 How is it I've never heard of this before? It looks like a great tool.
The website needs a bit of work however. It's not pruning old data (I'm seeing things from 2008) and the inability to select what region you want to check without logging in is a PITA. All the data in the world won't help if your website sucks. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 14:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Verite Rendition Edited by: Verite Rendition on 23/02/2009 13:38:52 How is it I've never heard of this before? It looks like a great tool.
The website needs a bit of work however. It's not pruning old data (I'm seeing things from 2008) and the inability to select what region you want to check without logging in is a PITA. All the data in the world won't help if your website sucks.
I'll shoot a note to Ix Forres about the old data issue. The requirement to login may be a bit PITA, but the cost is pretty low considering all the data you get.
And to a previous point; the utility of EVE Metrics increases exponentially the more users are on it. Hopefully we can drive increased adoption of the uploader utility to really give this tool a boost.
I'm running the uploader in the background everytime I start up my computer.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Muscaat
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.02.23 14:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hexxx The most useful function isn't the solarsystem specific sell/buy orders but instead the indexes created from all these orders. I noticed that some of them are down right now, but the promise of nearly automatically created indexes is....well....incredibly promising.
Indexes like those could be used as the foundation for futures contracts on minerals for example. This is just one of many possible uses.
I'm keeping an eye on it as a second data source for EVE Markets - I've not yet found the time to have a play (nor a headscratch on how to integrate it).
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 14:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Muscaat
Originally by: Hexxx The most useful function isn't the solarsystem specific sell/buy orders but instead the indexes created from all these orders. I noticed that some of them are down right now, but the promise of nearly automatically created indexes is....well....incredibly promising.
Indexes like those could be used as the foundation for futures contracts on minerals for example. This is just one of many possible uses.
I'm keeping an eye on it as a second data source for EVE Markets - I've not yet found the time to have a play (nor a headscratch on how to integrate it).
EVE Markets = EVE Central.
They get their data from the EVE Central API so it suffers from the same problems EVE Central has; that is a lack of data due to manual uploads and data integrity (false export records).
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.02.23 14:55:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Nick Turing on 23/02/2009 14:57:04
Originally by: No Profit Edited by: No Profit on 23/02/2009 12:36:19
Interesting.
Ah bugger, just read this:
Quote: By default resources are permitted 20 calls per hour at absolute most per (application developer) key
That sinks EMMA right off the bat.
That's just absurd. If they find that sort of limit to be necessary, I'm fairly sure they're Doin It Wrong. Any reasonable query ought to be indexable, and thus able to be answered efficiently, so much much higher limits should be practical.
That said, if they want to start offering dumps like eve-central do (eg, an email or other feed of all updates), I'd be more than happy to put up a query interface with much more reasonable limits.
Edit: Regarding the 'security' aspect: At best, it can only be obfuscation. Given that they don't have an authoritative source to check against, and given that the user has complete control over the client, there's literally no way to actually prevent people from forging data. You can make it extremely difficult, but that's it.
One method that would be practical, though: Only displaying data that has been independently uploaded by at least two sources. That would certainly raise the bar for anyone wanting to inject false data.
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Hel O'Ween
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: No Profit Ah bugger, just read this:
Quote: By default resources are permitted 20 calls per hour at absolute most per (application developer) key
That sinks EMMA right off the bat.
No, it just means you have to generate a single query for lots of items at once. You're not limited to a single typeID (or region) per query.
And how should we know if and when one of our users clicks on the button to retrieve data?
As it reads, the limit is per developer key, per hour. This means that if *one* user does 20 lookups, *all* other users are out of business for the next one hour.
This for sure can't be the intended outcome. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Daphne Eveningstar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 16:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Hexxx
Why would you want local? Just grab the uploader, upload tons of stuff, and view the information along with all the other updates from all the other people!!
Well ya see, I didn't build up a billion a day business to go leaking my data all over some guy's website. Same reason I turn off Eve-Central lookups in EMMA. My data is my data. The hosts of these sites don't get to datamine my lookups.
But having a local history of all my lookups and what cost how much where? Not having to jab the Export button each time to do it? Almost priceless to me!
My offer stands.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.23 17:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Daphne Eveningstar [ But having a local history of all my lookups and what cost how much where? Not having to jab the Export button each time to do it? Almost priceless to me!
Exactly this. There are only 6 stations whose market data I care about, and I can populate my own data with the alts I have installed in those regions.
Now that I know this is possible and how to do it I think I'll give the offline sc****r implementation a shot. Unfortunately it's worth a lot more than 2B not to distribute it once done. =)
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.02.23 17:15:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween As it reads, the limit is per developer key, per hour. This means that if *one* user does 20 lookups, *all* other users are out of business for the next one hour.
This for sure can't be the intended outcome.
This is clearly a matter for Ambo to look into - one solution would be for him to add the option to enter your own key into EMMA. --- Can't afford that BPO? Look here. 20:1 mineral compression The EVE f@h team |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 23:24:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Hel O'Ween As it reads, the limit is per developer key, per hour. This means that if *one* user does 20 lookups, *all* other users are out of business for the next one hour.
This for sure can't be the intended outcome.
This is clearly a matter for Ambo to look into - one solution would be for him to add the option to enter your own key into EMMA.
I think this would probably be the solution, I'll keep trying to get Ix Forres to get in here and post a little.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2009.02.24 01:42:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Hexxx
I think this would probably be the solution, I'll keep trying to get Ix Forres to get in here and post a little.
PlEaSe.
Patri
A fool usually thinks he is a genius |
Niedar
MASS
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Posted - 2009.02.24 04:58:00 -
[34]
Im not able to get it to work with the cache, its reading the export files fine though. When I first start the application there is this error in the log.
Unable to Cast Type: The specified module could not be found. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8007007E) at .Initialize() at TrayUploader.Form1.Register(IPlugin ipi) at .set_Host(IPluginHost ) at TrayUploader.Form1.Start(String args) Unable to load assembly: ManagedZLib
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Togen Lei
Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.24 06:14:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Togen Lei on 24/02/2009 06:14:06 I started using this today, and it seems to work well. I'm gonna play with it a bit more in the coming days
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec
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Posted - 2009.02.24 07:00:00 -
[36]
Well looking at the website, or rather trying to.. everything is messed up..
Stuff dont load, and site locks up and drops you to error pages..
Cant even get to see what exactly should convince me to use it..
They need to do some marketing stunt and take things down till it works 100%
Its trust undermining and potential biz breaking to have something that gives bad publicity..
- Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.24 07:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: No Profit Ah bugger, just read this:
Quote: By default resources are permitted 20 calls per hour at absolute most per (application developer) key
That sinks EMMA right off the bat.
No, it just means you have to generate a single query for lots of items at once. You're not limited to a single typeID (or region) per query.
And how should we know if and when one of our users clicks on the button to retrieve data?
As it reads, the limit is per developer key, per hour. This means that if *one* user does 20 lookups, *all* other users are out of business for the next one hour.
This for sure can't be the intended outcome.
This limit is being removed in an update. Most API calls won't require a developer key any more, either, and there's a few new API methods to choose from. The invalid XML is a bug and will be fixed shortly.
Some pages on the site will produce errors; unfortunately it's more or less impossible to test every part of the site without data to run it on, but rest assured every time you see an error page I get an email with debug info so I can fix that error. I'm working through it all and getting it straightened out as fast as I can.
I will get around to answering other questions; gotta dash for now, but I'll be back with more answers later! -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Ambo
EMMA Test Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.24 08:20:00 -
[38]
Sounds great. I look forward to being able to integrate this site with EMMA fully. --------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.02.24 08:48:00 -
[39]
Regarding the offline sc****r: I'm quite happy to write it and sell it to anyone who wants to pay me 2 billion isk. ;)
Contact me ingame if you're interested enough, and serious.
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Kiay Stryx
Gallente Phoenix Mandate
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Posted - 2009.02.24 09:39:00 -
[40]
Hello,
I'm currently building a full corp/alliance management web application and currently using EVE Central.
How wide spread and used is EVE Metrics so far? Are you planning on offering full API support to developers such as myself? I see you have an API system, but I'm more concerned about the future of the API. If so I'd be happy to switch my system from EVE Central to EVE Metrics, and offer recognition when the system is complete.
Aside from corp/alliance management, I am developing a full manufacturing calculator, market production analysis, kill boards, etc. Because of this I will require allot of price data.
What are your future plans for API access and usage? Will developers have more freedom regarding limits? How often is the data updated?
Thanks.
~Stryx
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Hel O'Ween
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.02.24 10:55:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ix Forres
This limit is being removed in an update. Most API calls won't require a developer key any more, either, and there's a few new API methods to choose from. The invalid XML is a bug and will be fixed shortly.
Cool!
Like Ambo, I'm looking forward to integrate EVE Metrics' data feed into my application.
Just post when you're done with the new API, so that we can find out if we need a developer key or not. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.24 11:41:00 -
[42]
Thanks for the hard work, Ix.
Just to add to what I've said before, now that I've had some time to play with the uploader some more I have some advice.
1) There seems to be a bug in the "Start with Windows" option. At one point I had two Run keys in the registry for the Uploader; I suspect this has to do with said option writing the keys slightly differently depending on whether it was written by the installer or by the application itself. In other words, the client doesn't seem to recognize when the installer has already written a Run key to have the client load with Windows.
2) The client needs a switch (in the CLI sense) to start up minimized. Right now when the client is set to load with Windows, it loads as a normal (windowed) application and needs to be minimized by the user to get it out of the way. It would probably be better for the client to start up minimized, hence the need for a switch and for the client to write a Run key with that switch. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
J'i Ta
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Posted - 2009.02.24 12:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Niedar Im not able to get it to work with the cache, its reading the export files fine though. When I first start the application there is this error in the log.
Unable to Cast Type: The specified module could not be found. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8007007E) at .Initialize() at TrayUploader.Form1.Register(IPlugin ipi) at .set_Host(IPluginHost ) at TrayUploader.Form1.Start(String args) Unable to load assembly: ManagedZLib
Same error here, whatever obfuscation/packing you're using is breaking loading of CRUDE.dll for some of us.
I did have a quick poke to see if I could find the magic bits that decode the cache files, good job making them un-findable
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Kiay Stryx
Gallente Phoenix Mandate
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:09:00 -
[44]
Played with the API for a bit. Needs allot of work. Though your program is nicer than EVE Central, their API is much better for the moment.
I do like the site design, and your app.
~Stryx
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:19:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ix Forres
This limit is being removed in an update. Most API calls won't require a developer key any more, either, and there's a few new API methods to choose from. The invalid XML is a bug and will be fixed shortly.
Some pages on the site will produce errors; unfortunately it's more or less impossible to test every part of the site without data to run it on, but rest assured every time you see an error page I get an email with debug info so I can fix that error. I'm working through it all and getting it straightened out as fast as I can.
I will get around to answering other questions; gotta dash for now, but I'll be back with more answers later!
Looking forward to development on this, it has some great potential here to be a very great tool. |
SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Daphne Eveningstar Edited by: Daphne Eveningstar on 23/02/2009 09:50:44
Quote: Browsing market order pages will upload order info, and browsing the history graph/table page will upload history info.
That's from the page for their uploader utility
All I can say is wow. I guess Bacon required the debugger to be running didn't it?
If this is stated by CCP to be a legal use of the client cache than let me be the first to offer up a bounty of 2 billion for a local exe version of the same functionality. I want every market lookup I make (across multiple accounts and hosts/clients) stored in a local MSSQL database for quick analysis of both the current picture and the historic data.
This too would interest me and would go half in you 2b bounty for a copy of this tool. I would have a single stipulation however, that this tool keep it's own history as well as a "History" from the table/graph page.
As these tables/Graphs do not show how much at each level an item was purchased for. It just shows the quantity of trades regardless of buy/sell/price, and what the highest order was, the lowest order was, and the average. Although this info is important having accurate records about how much was purchased at what price allows weighted averages which is by far more important then the average of two bunk orders.
I really dislike the fact that I could fill an order for 100,000 unit at 0.01 ISK and 1 unit at 10,000,000,000 ISK and the average be 5,000,000,000.01. That's stupidity to the extreme.
Amarr for Life |
J'i Ta
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Posted - 2009.02.24 17:54:00 -
[47]
Originally by: SencneS I really dislike the fact that I could fill an order for 100,000 unit at 0.01 ISK and 1 unit at 10,000,000,000 ISK and the average be 5,000,000,000.01. That's stupidity to the extreme.
That's the very definition of an average, if you think another stat would be more useful then specify one.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2009.02.24 18:09:00 -
[48]
Originally by: J'i Ta
Originally by: SencneS I really dislike the fact that I could fill an order for 100,000 unit at 0.01 ISK and 1 unit at 10,000,000,000 ISK and the average be 5,000,000,000.01. That's stupidity to the extreme.
That's the very definition of an average, if you think another stat would be more useful then specify one.
That's one possible definition of average. For that example, a mean weighted by unit count (99,999.01 ISK) or a median (0.01 ISK) might be more informative.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.24 18:18:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Akita T on 24/02/2009 18:21:09
Awesome, +1 user
Now... if only it would also check, use and upload the cache of "regional history" too ... now, THAT would be "awesome-er"
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.24 18:44:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 24/02/2009 18:21:09
Awesome, +1 user
Now... if only it would also check, use and upload the cache of "regional history" too ... now, THAT would be "awesome-er"
If you mean the history as in the data used to generate the graphs- view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though. We've got somewhere around 600,000 historic data points for movements, orders and prices, along with just over 600,000 orders uploaded to the system so far. Obviously this hasn't been fully released quite yet, and this push is a big step in ramping up the number of users and working out the kinks associated with it. Of course, with more data comes better results, and that's being improved right now; I'm planning an evening of debugging tonight, though!
I'll throw the reports about the uploader not working over to Salvis Tallan; he's the guy who has put that together for the site, so that's his problem .
Originally by: Kiay Stryx Played with the API for a bit. Needs allot of work. Though your program is nicer than EVE Central, their API is much better for the moment.
Gotta agree on this right now, but the next version should fix that. Next version introduces full order list dumps as well as a 'check price' method which is designed for tools that want to grab the price of an item or many items at once; it's also filterable by regions (default is highsec regions) or to a given system (for jita prices etc). Existing APIs will be getting some rewrite love, too. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.24 18:57:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ix Forres view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though.
Yeah, that... it was just a mistaken assumption on my part when the server hicked-up (see edits above)... I suppose you're just swamped by the deluge of people putting orders up and checking your site at the moment thanks to this thread
On that note... is the server down for upgrade/maintenance reasons, or is it really just overloaded ? How much CPU usage do you get, how do you think will it scale later on, etc ?
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ix Forres view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though.
Yeah, that... it was just a mistaken assumption on my part when the server hicked-up (see edits above)... I suppose you're just swamped by the deluge of people putting orders up and checking your site at the moment thanks to this thread
On that note... is the server down for upgrade/maintenance reasons, or is it really just overloaded ? How much CPU usage do you get, how do you think will it scale later on, etc ?
Really overloaded right now; the server's only a little on and it keeps running out of RAM. I'm working on a solution right now. Expect it to be alive again tomorrow at latest. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:22:00 -
[53]
Also, I noticed something weird with the uploader so I'll have to check with you...
I have the "delete after upload" selected (you know, to ease the load in case I want to do a "force upload"), and did quite a bunch of in-game browsing. Obviously, there was quite a bit of timeouts and so on and so forth, and I also accidentally closed the uploader (got used with evemon and the fact it only closes from tray), tried to do a "force upload" for the rest of thingies not up yet due to the server crash... but now the uploader says it finds nothing (yet there should be plenty not yet uploaded)... plus, in-game, I still get the cached data on the history graph (no delay on load as opposed to a second or so delay on first uncached load). Will the uploader eventually recognize the cached data or not ? Of course, we could simply log off, wipe the EVE cache, start everything from scratch as a "worst case" scenario, but... meh.
So the question is, how does the uploader handle all of this, and what should OUR "best practice" be in such cases ?
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:38:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ix Forres view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though.
Yeah, that... it was just a mistaken assumption on my part when the server hicked-up (see edits above)... I suppose you're just swamped by the deluge of people putting orders up and checking your site at the moment thanks to this thread
On that note... is the server down for upgrade/maintenance reasons, or is it really just overloaded ? How much CPU usage do you get, how do you think will it scale later on, etc ?
Really overloaded right now; the server's only a little on and it keeps running out of RAM. I'm working on a solution right now. Expect it to be alive again tomorrow at latest.
Ix, what are your hosting needs. Im the processes of getting one setup right now and would be more than willing to offer space on it. |
ZeusOnRoids
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Posted - 2009.02.24 19:46:00 -
[55]
err...dumb question: what does ERAP/ERAM mean?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.24 20:48:00 -
[56]
Originally by: ZeusOnRoids err...dumb question: what does ERAP/ERAM mean?
"Notes on the indexes
EVE Metrics provides several indexes built from different data sources. These are ERAP (EVE Reported Average Price), ERAM (EVE Reported Average Movement) and EMCP (EVE Metrics Computed Price)
ERAP/ERAM indexes are compiled from the average prices/movement, as shown on the market history page (as a graph or table ingame). You should view this page ingame to upload new data.
EMCP is compiled from market orders, as reported to EVE Metrics by users running the EVE Metrics Uploader. Only reliable (cache, not log) updates are used for indexes to ensure indexes are not tampered with by data insertion.
In nearly all cases, ERAP is likely to be a more reliable average. However, EMCP by it's nature often reflects more accurately trends in the market, and as such remains a useful indicator."
Says so on the box
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.02.24 20:56:00 -
[57]
Originally by: J'i Ta
Originally by: SencneS I really dislike the fact that I could fill an order for 100,000 unit at 0.01 ISK and 1 unit at 10,000,000,000 ISK and the average be 5,000,000,000.01. That's stupidity to the extreme.
That's the very definition of an average, if you think another stat would be more useful then specify one.
The Thoraemond guy answered the question already but basic average is stupid when dealing with quantity. One dumb pilot adds two zeros to the end of an order for one unit and it screws the average up because it's now the higher buy order.
Imagine if every day I goto Jita and buy one trit for 100 ISK. Now my one unit of trit is the highest buy price, according to the average it would look like Trit is sold on average for ~52 ISK. Now the Market window works out mean weighted unit average when placing or buying the item (regional average). However the little charts are totally screwed up because I'm an ass-hat buying one unit of trit for 100 isk a day every day for a month
Amarr for Life |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.02.24 21:02:00 -
[58]
Some of the statistics need some refining but this has tremendous potential.
Kwint Industries has signed up.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:56:00 -
[59]
I'd seriously suggest feeding the 7-day, 30-day (and maybe also the 1-year) ERAP/ERAM into the market "detailed orders per item" pages, for all items.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.24 23:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ix Forres view the graph page and it uploads that same data. It's not used on the site anywhere except the indexes section yet, though.
Yeah, that... it was just a mistaken assumption on my part when the server hicked-up (see edits above)... I suppose you're just swamped by the deluge of people putting orders up and checking your site at the moment thanks to this thread
On that note... is the server down for upgrade/maintenance reasons, or is it really just overloaded ? How much CPU usage do you get, how do you think will it scale later on, etc ?
Really overloaded right now; the server's only a little on and it keeps running out of RAM. I'm working on a solution right now. Expect it to be alive again tomorrow at latest.
Tell us what your needs are and we'll make it happen.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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YunFu Yan
Yan Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.24 23:33:00 -
[61]
Eve metrics does not use simple maths to generate the statistics.
How I know? Well, I kinda contributed to the code: Outliers are identified and eliminated before doing any relevant calculations.
This project has a lot of potential. Especially so once we users get the means to work with the underlying data warehouse! ------------------------------------------------- Yan Enterprises - We mean business. |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.24 23:41:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Ix Forres on 24/02/2009 23:42:47
Originally by: Hexxx Tell us what your needs are and we'll make it happen.
edit: to be more clear, there are people here that can make sure you get the kind of heavy lifting you need out of a proper host
I run the server myself; it's a dedicated box I rent. It's more than capable of running EM, but there was some hugely unoptimised code in there, and absolutely no caching whatsoever anywhere. tl;dr, I just tightened it all up and now we're golden. All the hard work is done by background workers (more or less); if it needs to expand, then I already have offers from several people for CPU time on their boxes. The workers use a central queue, so it's a simple matter to add capacity- I even have it set up so I can use Amazon EC2 to add capacity dynamically, though this isn't enabled yet.
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 24/02/2009 19:33:57
__
Also, I noticed something weird with the uploader so I'll have to check with you...
I have the "delete after upload" selected (you know, to ease the load in case I want to do a "force upload"), and did quite a bunch of in-game browsing. Obviously, there was quite a bit of timeouts and so on and so forth, and I also accidentally closed the uploader (got used with evemon and the fact it only closes from tray), tried to do a "force upload" for the rest of thingies not up yet due to the server crash... but now the uploader says it finds nothing (yet there should be plenty not yet uploaded)... plus, in-game, I still get the cached data on the history graph (no delay on load as opposed to a second or so delay on first uncached load). Will the uploader eventually recognize the cached data or not ? Of course, we could simply log off, wipe the EVE cache, start everything from scratch as a "worst case" scenario, but... meh.
So the question is, how does the uploader handle all of this, and what should OUR "best practice" be in such cases ? ___
P.S. Have you thought collaborating with Chribba on this one ? I think he'd love this as an addition to his arsenal of useful stuff, and you could surely use the CPU firepower he might be able to provide... sure, there would be a lot of things to discuss and probably a lot of compromises to be made, but I think it at least deserves some degree of consideration.
If the uploader can't find anything make sure all your EVE installs are set properly. If you're using a different cache path (some launchers can modify this), see if it's being detected in the log window. If it's not, try it without the launcher. The uploader guesses your cache paths from your EVE install locations, which should work in the vast majority of cases.
As to any collaboration with Chribba: This has always been an independent project and for now it'll probably stay that way. That said, I hope to open EVE Metrics up as it progresses with more APIs, so if Chribba wants to get into marketeering and this sort of analysis he's more than welcome to use the APIs. I've not approached him about any sort of partnership and vice versa; there's no real need or demand.
On the statistics note: No, they're not simple averages. It's a combination of quartile range filtering to remove outliers, along with filtering based on standard deviation and variance to further remove crap orders. The filters are run once for price and once for quantity. The results are summed and those orders are then used to generate an average. More or less, anyway; it varies across the site. ERAM/ERAP indexes use the number direct from CCP's own output, EMCP is what EVE Metrics can deduce given the orders it has to work with. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.25 00:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Ix Forres If the uploader can't find anything make sure all your EVE installs are set properly. If you're using a different cache path (some launchers can modify this), see if it's being detected in the log window. If it's not, try it without the launcher. The uploader guesses your cache paths from your EVE install locations, which should work in the vast majority of cases.
On the previous "weird stuff" report : single install, manual client location, cache folders displayed by the uploader are always the proper ones (it even detects new cache hits), no launchers used. The issue was the combination between server unavailable and uploader close/reopen while EVE was still running normally, not taking "old" caches (that is same EVE session but different uploader session) into acount, with "delete cache file after upload" being an unknown factor (EVE *seemed* to still have the very same data already cached, but uploader doesn't detect the cache file as "upload-worthy").
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Namco
Balls of Steel
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Posted - 2009.02.25 15:30:00 -
[64]
This is all I see in the log window:
Unable to Cast Type: The specified module could not be found. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8007007E) at .Initialize() at TrayUploader.Form1.Register(IPlugin ipi) at .set_Host(IPluginHost ) at TrayUploader.Form1.Start(String args) Unable to load assembly: ManagedZLib The computer is running Vista64.
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J'i Ta
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Posted - 2009.02.25 18:29:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Namco This is all I see in the log window:
Unable to Cast Type: The specified module could not be found. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8007007E) at .Initialize() at TrayUploader.Form1.Register(IPlugin ipi) at .set_Host(IPluginHost ) at TrayUploader.Form1.Start(String args) Unable to load assembly: ManagedZLib The computer is running Vista64.
That's the packed/obfuscated cache scraping code failing to load.
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.25 19:22:00 -
[66]
Originally by: J'i Ta
Originally by: Namco This is all I see in the log window:
Unable to Cast Type: The specified module could not be found. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x8007007E) at .Initialize() at TrayUploader.Form1.Register(IPlugin ipi) at .set_Host(IPluginHost ) at TrayUploader.Form1.Start(String args) Unable to load assembly: ManagedZLib The computer is running Vista64.
That's the packed/obfuscated cache scraping code failing to load.
J'i Ta- is your PC running a 64-bit OS too? That might be what's causing it- if it is, we'll get a 64-bit build up and available ASAP. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.02.26 00:25:00 -
[67]
I am unable to get the web page to load, using firefox or IE.m Had this happen last night, worked this morning, now it does not. Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Niedar
MASS
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Posted - 2009.02.26 03:29:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Niedar on 26/02/2009 03:30:12
Originally by: Ix Forres
J'i Ta- is your PC running a 64-bit OS too? That might be what's causing it- if it is, we'll get a 64-bit build up and available ASAP.
I get the same error and also run Windows Vista 64.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 04:59:00 -
[69]
I noticed something else that's somewhat strange.
When viewing ORDER data, usually the uploader reports that TWO logfiles have been uploaded, and viewing market history data on the same item does not increase the count of logfiles uploaded. Also, if viewing history first, it's just one logfile uploaded, then when viewing orders it's another one. So, this leads me to believe that the history data is loaded into cache even when just viewing orders, so technically viewing the history data would not be necessary. HOWEVER, on some items I've uploaded data from up to three different regions (by doing order viewing first, then either history afterwards or no history at all), the ERAM/ERAP was "unavailable", so this leads me to believe the history data might actually not be loaded (or uploaded) correctly.
So, which one is it ?
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 05:07:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Niedar Edited by: Niedar on 26/02/2009 03:30:12
Originally by: Ix Forres
J'i Ta- is your PC running a 64-bit OS too? That might be what's causing it- if it is, we'll get a 64-bit build up and available ASAP.
I get the same error and also run Windows Vista 64.
FWIW I have no issues on Vista 64. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 08:14:00 -
[71]
Hi, nice project ;)
However I have some issues/questions/suggestions:
1) I tried using the developer APIs, and they seem to be extremely slow (waited >3 min for a quote for a single product type)
2) I find it somewhat funny that we both developed a cache decryptor, I got in touch with quite some people to do so, but I cannot remember you ;)
3) Why do you obfuscate your code? It looks as you may have something to hide.
4) The ZLib you are using is a mixed mode assembly which is bad because it prevents to run on linux and might create problems on 64bit windows.
5) I might add eve-metrics as MarketAPI to EveAI.Live.
6) Is it possible to package your upload-utility without a setup .exe file. I (and probably others) have a huge distrust for such kind of executables and it is likely completely unneccessary. E.g. use a simple .ZIP instead.
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Caladain Barton
Vengeance Imperium
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Posted - 2009.02.26 08:30:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Amida Ta Edited by: Amida Ta on 26/02/2009 08:20:16 Hi, nice project ;)
However I have some issues/questions/suggestions:
1) I tried using the developer APIs, and they seem to be extremely slow (waited >3 min for a quote for a single product type)
2) I find it somewhat funny that we both developed a cache decryptor (in C#?), I got in touch with quite some people to do so, but I cannot remember you ;)
3) Why do you obfuscate your code? It looks as you may have something to hide.
4) The ZLib you are using is a mixed mode assembly which is bad because it prevents to run on linux and might create problems on 64bit windows.
5) I might add eve-metrics as MarketAPI to EveAI.Live.
6) Is it possible to package your upload-utility without a setup .exe file. I (and probably others) have a huge distrust for such kind of executables and it is likely completely unneccessary. E.g. use a simple .ZIP instead.
Any chance either of you guys/gals would be willing to write up a wiki page detailing how you solved the issue/how the cache is actually formatted? I haven't spent a lot of time looking or poking at the issue, but it does appear to be a good case of decryption and from a purely programmatic or mathematical point of view, i would find such an article quite a fun and interesting read.
Or maybe i'm just naive and silly..
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 08:34:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Caladain Barton
Any chance either of you guys/gals would be willing to write up a wiki page detailing how you solved the issue/how the cache is actually formatted? I haven't spent a lot of time looking or poking at the issue, but it does appear to be a good case of decryption and from a purely programmatic or mathematical point of view, i would find such an article quite a fun and interesting read.
Or maybe i'm just naive and silly..
CCP already said that reading these files would be ok, but that they would not like to see any knowledge spread around how do decode these (likely because if somebody can decode them the way to modify them is not too long and that might open a whole lot of problems for CCP)
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Caladain Barton
Vengeance Imperium
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Posted - 2009.02.26 08:41:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Amida Ta
Originally by: Caladain Barton
Any chance either of you guys/gals would be willing to write up a wiki page detailing how you solved the issue/how the cache is actually formatted? I haven't spent a lot of time looking or poking at the issue, but it does appear to be a good case of decryption and from a purely programmatic or mathematical point of view, i would find such an article quite a fun and interesting read.
Or maybe i'm just naive and silly..
CCP already said that reading these files would be ok, but that they would not like to see any knowledge spread around how do decode these (likely because if somebody can decode them the way to modify them is not too long and that might open a whole lot of problems for CCP)
Ahh, quite sad then. I originally was looking at it for exactly the purposes you guys put it to use for, automatic market scraping for my own personal calculations, but gave up on it (admittedly not trying for very long) as it became obvious that it would require a good chunk of my time (which, while in university, i simply just can't justify). I imagine the story/algorithm/decryption must be a very fun story :-)
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destinationunreachable
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Posted - 2009.02.26 12:35:00 -
[75]
I like the application and are happy to hear, that CCP has given their blessing. Even though the web interface still needs some cleanup, I predict it will be more successful than eve-central as you upload on-the-fly, which out pressing the bloody export button. I would like to do some stats calculation - would it be possible to get a full (nightly?) database dump ?
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Agrapena
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Posted - 2009.02.26 12:45:00 -
[76]
^5s to an amazing piece of software. the ammount of time saved by not hitting that export button is phenominal, specially if you`re in Jita!!
Previous posters mentioned the web interface needing tidied up, which is agreeable, but at the same time, it still serves its purpose and does it well.
Definately a welcome change to Eve Central.
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.02.26 14:34:00 -
[77]
Ooo, this does look nifty.
However, I thought that CCP tried to stamp this behaviour out? The whole BACON scandal where people were using sikrit logserver data to alert you to hostiles in the system caused CCP to modify the way that logserver handled data; yet the cache is just the same way of accessing the same data.
So in a way, CCP haven't actually prevented people from accessing sikrit data, they've just made it harder?
What I do the rest of the time |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 15:13:00 -
[78]
It's different data though. BACON alerted you of something time-critical when NOT on the computer (or not paying attention), giving you a smidgen of an unfair advantage towards the others not using it. This here serves just to make existing functionality less time-consuming, and does nothing you can't already do... it won't automatically browse the markets for deals, it only collates the data you manually select to view anyway.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:29:00 -
[79]
This isn't open source, and I'm paranoid about running anything that might be a keylogger on my gaming machine. Has anybody looked at this to make sure it does what it says it does and nothing else? I can see any mention of the issue in this thread.
I'm somewhat convinced by Hexxx vouching for it, given that I at least trust ebank with my ISK. More reassurance would be nice, though.
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Business Ethics
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Posted - 2009.02.26 16:51:00 -
[80]
Did all common sense go out the window with this thread?
If you're an active and profitable trader than what are you doing running an executable that actively sc****s your cache and uploads the data to a 3rd party site? Talk about giving away the baby with the bathwater along with the whole bathroom.
Notice any extra competition in your markets since you started running this? It's trivial for these guys to mine the uploads for profitable markets. You think they're doing this out of a sense of community?
Until the source code for this uploader is made available and vetted anyone running this is playing with fire. Not to mention that CCP hasn't come in and given it a EULA-compliant thumbs up yet.
Jeez I hate to be negative nancy here but why would anyone with a secret recipe for profit just upload it to the internet?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:04:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Business Ethics If you're an active and profitable trader than what are you doing running an executable that actively sc****s your cache and uploads the data to a 3rd party site?
Only run it if/when you have stuff you need uploaded and/or wish to contribute. Personally, I simply browsed several "interesting to watch for effects but not necessarily good to trade in directly" WHOLE CATEGORIES of items in several different regions. I manually kill my "machonet" folder regularly anyway, it doesn't hurt me to spend one hour or so once a month doing some bulk uploads for the most interesting item categories in 3 neghbouring regions.
As for probability the uploader is a trojan/keylogger/whatever... well, I doubt this particular set of people would be willing to risk a banning on account of doing something like that... but yeah, there's always that risk, even if it's minimal. Sure, I'd love to see it go open-source, but then again... how many of you ACTUALLY looked at the FULL code of an open source project ? How many people you know that looked into the complete source code of the invention calculator, or the source code for EVE-Mon that aren't involved in its development in the first place ? Or, what about EFT, fercrissakes ? Oh, what about the many macro-enabled, password-to-fully-view-protected XLS pseudo-calculators around ?
Sometimes, a little bit of risk is necessary for something nice.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Business Ethics
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:19:00 -
[82]
Well what we need is some sponsored alts that sit in each region and upload the whole market once a day. This would probably be worth isk to some people. How many items (total) are listed on the market anyway?
It's just so tough to piece together a viable picture of the market like this. It's like looking at the grand canyon through a toilet-paper tube.
Honestly I'd rather CCP give us something like a Technical Analysis skill that opened up different levels of API data for the local region's market (for that char). Level 1 might give you access to basic (daily) tick data at your local station, all the way up to full regional market dumps, tick data, and all the other crap, at level 5.
Just fantasizing here.
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Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:41:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet This isn't open source, and I'm paranoid about running anything that might be a keylogger on my gaming machine. Has anybody looked at this to make sure it does what it says it does and nothing else? I can see any mention of the issue in this thread.
I'm somewhat convinced by Hexxx vouching for it, given that I at least trust ebank with my ISK. More reassurance would be nice, though.
I've looked through the assemblies in Reflector fairly thoroughly, and I can state with a high degree of certainty that this does not contain a keylogger or anything else other than what's on the box.
Obviously, you've got no particular reason to trust _me_ either, but anyone with Reflector and some knowledge of .NET can verify this, despite the obfuscation applied to one of the assemblies.
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Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.02.26 17:47:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Business Ethics Did all common sense go out the window with this thread?
If you're an active and profitable trader than what are you doing running an executable that actively sc****s your cache and uploads the data to a 3rd party site? Talk about giving away the baby with the bathwater along with the whole bathroom.
Notice any extra competition in your markets since you started running this? It's trivial for these guys to mine the uploads for profitable markets. You think they're doing this out of a sense of community?
Until the source code for this uploader is made available and vetted anyone running this is playing with fire.
If you're concerned about 'them' using market data you upload to your detriment, why would seeing the source make any difference? Your concern seems to be with what it's claimed to do, not with any issues of "maybe it does something else". And given the public nature of the uploaded data, why are you concerned specifically about the authors of the tool? Anyone can access the data you upload - that's the point.
Quote: Not to mention that CCP hasn't come in and given it a EULA-compliant thumbs up yet.
Quoth CCP Lingorm: Quote: As long as you do not modify the cache files then you are free to read them and write tools for them. Of course we do not support these tools (*grin*) and if we change the cache file structure of methods they may break, not that I see this happening but it is possible.
And to make perfectly clear. If you modify them then your client may break.
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Business Ethics
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Posted - 2009.02.26 18:29:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Nick Turing
If you're concerned about 'them' using market data you upload to your detriment, why would seeing the source make any difference? Your concern seems to be with what it's claimed to do, not with any issues of "maybe it does something else". And given the public nature of the uploaded data, why are you concerned specifically about the authors of the tool? Anyone can access the data you upload - that's the point.
2 separate but equally valid concerns here. Is the executable itself safe (probably) and, do you want to share your data?
Quote: Quoth CCP Lingorm
ok cool then
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.26 21:48:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Business Ethics Did all common sense go out the window with this thread?
If you're an active and profitable trader than what are you doing running an executable that actively sc****s your cache and uploads the data to a 3rd party site? Talk about giving away the baby with the bathwater along with the whole bathroom.
Notice any extra competition in your markets since you started running this? It's trivial for these guys to mine the uploads for profitable markets. You think they're doing this out of a sense of community?
Until the source code for this uploader is made available and vetted anyone running this is playing with fire. Not to mention that CCP hasn't come in and given it a EULA-compliant thumbs up yet.
Jeez I hate to be negative nancy here but why would anyone with a secret recipe for profit just upload it to the internet?
Speaking personally; yes, I do it out of a sense of community. I write tools that could be useful and share them. I get a kick out of helping other people do cool stuff. Of course, EVE Metrics may expand in the future to bring paid-for tools (We're thinking about providing corporate tools for industry under the site, which would be a paid-for service). We're also thinking about the suggested pay-for-uploads strategy to reward uploaders, but we'd need to be turning a profit to do that!
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet This isn't open source, and I'm paranoid about running anything that might be a keylogger on my gaming machine. Has anybody looked at this to make sure it does what it says it does and nothing else? I can see any mention of the issue in this thread.
I'm somewhat convinced by Hexxx vouching for it, given that I at least trust ebank with my ISK. More reassurance would be nice, though.
We cannot publish the source to our uploader. I'd love to, but it's been made clear that we cannot. I've lost count of the number of people who have sc****d through with disassemblers, reflectors, and sc****d all the network traffic; it's clean, legit, has no nasties in it, and so on. None of the traffic is encrypted; it's all in the clear, so you can go through yourself and look at what we get. It carries a cryptographic hash to prevent tampering, but that's all. I will be making a .zip of the application available for those who don't want to trust a simple installer.
Other comments... yep, the web interface could use some tidying up. When I get a spare moment. BACON was a logserver exploit. EMU is a cache reader, which is a different thing altogether. Cache reading has been given the thumbs-up from CCP in regard to the EULA (See the quote from Lingorm), and we've run this by CCP (at a source level) to make sure they're fine with it.
In regard to us mining data... well, that's kinda what the site is for ;) your market orders are entirely public in any case; if this just makes it easier for people to see what you're doing then you probably want to rethink your strategy. Any strategy which depends on people being ignorant is probably not gonna fare too well.
Originally by: Amida Ta Edited by: Amida Ta on 26/02/2009 08:30:11 Hi, nice project ;)
However I have some issues/questions/suggestions:
1) The server's having issues; we're working on it. 2) Yes, C#. It's independently developed. 3) We obfuscate our code because we are aware that CCP does not everyone and their dog to have a cache reader. Not our decision. 4) Yes, sorry. We're looking at alternatives for Linux, and will certainly be making a logfile uploader (no cache reader) available for Linux and OSX in the coming months, if not a full-blown cache reader. 5) Cool! More usage is always good. 6) Will be doing this for the next version. 7) Suggest away as to what you'd like to see: there's a 'feedback' button on the site where you can suggest new ideas and vote on other people's suggestions. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:10:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Ix Forres
3) We obfuscate our code because we are aware that CCP does not everyone and their dog to have a cache reader. Not our decision.
Given that, to my understanding, the concern is not so much about people having cache readers as people being able to code cache _writers_, have you considered exposing more of the API? I realise it only implements a limited set of opcodes, but in general, being able to parse a cache file and get back a data structure of some kind would be rather handy, and wouldn't - as far as I'm aware - make CCP unhappy.
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Modescond
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Posted - 2009.02.26 22:16:00 -
[88]
for those of you who have loader issues on Vista x64.
Goto the following location: C:\Program Files (x86)\EVE Metrics\Uploader
right click "TrayUploader.exe", goto Details and tell me what version you have.
Also, run the application, open up task manager (ctrl+shift+esc), select the Processes tab and let me know if there is a * next to "TrayUploader.exe".
Thanks,
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:00:00 -
[89]
I like this tool much better than the Eve Central Market Uploader - having to click the export button was annoying enough that I stopped after a while. EMU is great; start it up and forget about it. Thanks for your hard work. Looking forward to the mountains of data that will be showing up. <3
My only issue is that the website is pretty slow for me, and sometimes the uploader has timeout issues when trying to toss data back up to you guys. Hope this can be rectified soon.
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Namco
Balls of Steel
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:16:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Modescond Edited by: Modescond on 26/02/2009 22:25:45 for those of you who have loader issues on Vista x64.
Goto the following location: C:\Program Files (x86)\EVE Metrics\Uploader
right click "TrayUploader.exe", goto Details and tell me what version, file-size and last modified date you have.
Also, run the application, open up task manager (ctrl+shift+esc), select the Processes tab and let me know if there is a * next to "TrayUploader.exe".
Thanks,
Version: 1.1.0.0 Size: 159KB Date Modified: 11/10/2008 5:25AM
Shows *32 next to the process in Task Manager.
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Business Ethics
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:17:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Ix Forres but we'd need to be turning a profit to do that!
You have prime IPO material here. Get a math/statistics guy on staff analysing the database and hire a couple auditable traders and you will be all be trillionaires within a year, not kidding. I bet you could keep 2 dozen trade alts busy full time with the output from such a system.
Quote:
We cannot publish the source to our uploader.
Quote:
In regard to us mining data... well, that's kinda what the site is for ;)
You are in a unique position of having the database and also having the web server logs. If someone uploads juicy cache dumps you guys will notice it first!
Quote:
your market orders are entirely public in any case;
How is this Surely you'll have no problem telling me what what orders I have open if they're entirely public.
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Caladain Barton
Vengeance Imperium
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:20:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Nick Turing
Originally by: Ix Forres
3) We obfuscate our code because we are aware that CCP does not everyone and their dog to have a cache reader. Not our decision.
Given that, to my understanding, the concern is not so much about people having cache readers as people being able to code cache _writers_, have you considered exposing more of the API? I realise it only implements a limited set of opcodes, but in general, being able to parse a cache file and get back a data structure of some kind would be rather handy, and wouldn't - as far as I'm aware - make CCP unhappy.
Maybe making the actual "decoder" a blackbox binary file, with fully documented interface for the rest of us to use? I would love to adapt this to my own programs, but i can understand if you don't want to/can't share how you did what you did in specific terms (documents/formulas/etc).
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Fitz VonHeise
Foundation
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:35:00 -
[93]
So basically to populate your database, (after loading the program) all we have to do is have the market window open while whe fly from one region to the next.
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Caladain Barton
Vengeance Imperium
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Posted - 2009.02.26 23:42:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise So basically to populate your database, (after loading the program) all we have to do is have the market window open while whe fly from one region to the next.
I think this is the part of the equation i would like to remove..call me anti-social, but i like to keep to myself mostly, and i like to keep my data to myself. Perhaps some sort of licensing scheme to "purchase" the blackbox decoder?
I'm probably going off topic, but i view evemetrics as two items, one being the website and data being generated there (very cool by the way), and the second being this decoder, which i would love to see integrated into all the various tools i utilize at some point :-)
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Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 06:19:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Ix Forres
3) We obfuscate our code because we are aware that CCP does not everyone and their dog to have a cache reader. Not our decision.
If at some point it interests you, I'd like to talk to you (or whoever wrote the cache-scraping stuff) about putting together an application for me as an ISK-paid job. I've always wanted to do a version of my influence map for the Chinese EVE server (Serenity) but they do not have an API server like we do. I would need to sc**** the cache files for the sovereignty data and the alliance list, and while Paladin Vent figured this out, he did not leave behind the code to do this and I do not have the kind of knowledge needed to implement this myself.
If it's something you're interested in, drop me an EVEmail and we can talk. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.02.27 08:52:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Nick Turing on 27/02/2009 08:55:34
Originally by: Caladain Barton
Originally by: Nick Turing
Originally by: Ix Forres
3) We obfuscate our code because we are aware that CCP does not everyone and their dog to have a cache reader. Not our decision.
Given that, to my understanding, the concern is not so much about people having cache readers as people being able to code cache _writers_, have you considered exposing more of the API? I realise it only implements a limited set of opcodes, but in general, being able to parse a cache file and get back a data structure of some kind would be rather handy, and wouldn't - as far as I'm aware - make CCP unhappy.
Maybe making the actual "decoder" a blackbox binary file, with fully documented interface for the rest of us to use? I would love to adapt this to my own programs, but i can understand if you don't want to/can't share how you did what you did in specific terms (documents/formulas/etc).
It already is (minus the documentation), in the form of CRUDE.dll. The interface could use a bit of work, and it won't be able to decode the whole cache, but it's there.
Quote: So basically to populate your database, (after loading the program) all we have to do is have the market window open while whe fly from one region to the next.
You'll still need to view the individual items - it doesn't upload the entire market, just the bits of it you view.
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.28 23:26:00 -
[97]
Well, I'm happy to announce we've just moved to a brand spanking new backend server architecture which should help a lot with the performance of the app and general stability of things. We're also finishing up our testing of a new server environment provided by EVSCO which will be providing additional application server resources should we need it.
After these changes and additional under-the-hood tweaking we hope to have the whole app tuned much better and performing reliably well.
As to people suggesting we IPO this or start doing private projects: Frankly, there's more to life than ISK. Seriously! For now, I'm quite happy to do this for ISK donations as people see fit. We'll be introducing paid-for features (ISK payment ofc, not RL ISK) at some point in the future for the more complex and powerful tools we have planned but that's pretty far off right now on the timeline.
At the person wanting to know how to use the uploader: Yep, you just need to fly around and browse the market. Every item you view for which there's a delay before you see data, we get the data for (as in, not precached). Data uploaded is regionally focused, ofc.
I'm compiling some statistics on how we've grown in the past week which I'll throw up on the site later on. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Namco
Balls of Steel
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Posted - 2009.02.28 23:31:00 -
[98]
Any chance of getting the cache scanner to work for those people (like myself) it doesn't work for?
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.02.28 23:45:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Namco Any chance of getting the cache scanner to work for those people (like myself) it doesn't work for?
I'm literally watching Salvis write the fix right now. So, yep. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.03.01 00:40:00 -
[100]
Quote:
Well, I'm happy to announce we've just moved to a brand spanking new backend server architecture which should help a lot with the performance of the app and general stability of things.
I just tried it, it's slow like crazy past the first screens.
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:07:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Well, I'm happy to announce we've just moved to a brand spanking new backend server architecture which should help a lot with the performance of the app and general stability of things.
I just tried it, it's slow like crazy past the first screens.
Yeah; the new backend architecture just fell over. Give us a few hours to work out the kinks; I can't afford a staging server, unfortunately -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Salvis Tallan
Gallente The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:14:00 -
[102]
A few things on the uploader. The code I wrote is compiled to run as 32-bit (so 64-bit will emulate that and work fine). The problem is the zlib library that is used to compress/decompress some stuff is not compiled that way and dies on 64-bit systems. I am currently working to replace it with one that plays nicer with others.
Second, The options for deleting files after upload or older than a certain date applies to exported market logs, as in the *.txt files that you get by clicking export on the market screen. It does not delete he cache files (because we do not in any way edit them), nor does 'force upload' work on said cache files.
Normally Ix and I are all for open-source, but in this case it will continue to be closed and obfuscated. If our assurance for the safty of the code still leaves you with doubts, simply delete the CRUDE dll and the app will no longer have the cache functionality. ------
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.01 06:12:00 -
[103]
By the way, feel free to include THIS here as part of your site. Actually, come to think of it, please, DO add most of the functionality there in your site... it should be awesome since you have a direct feed to buy/sell order prices, so all you need to do is take the rest of the raw data from that, enter the calculations (which are pretty simple) and voila, instant awesomeness^10.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.03.01 10:19:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Salvis Tallan A few things on the uploader. The code I wrote is compiled to run as 32-bit (so 64-bit will emulate that and work fine). The problem is the zlib library that is used to compress/decompress some stuff is not compiled that way and dies on 64-bit systems. I am currently working to replace it with one that plays nicer with others.
There's actually zlib support buried somewhere in the .NET sdk. The most obvious classes all expect the gzip header, but there's one buried in there somewhere that doesn't. Let me know if you're interested and can't find it.
Quote: Normally Ix and I are all for open-source, but in this case it will continue to be closed and obfuscated. If our assurance for the safty of the code still leaves you with doubts, simply delete the CRUDE dll and the app will no longer have the cache functionality.
You could always open-source the app, but not the plugin. Some clear terms on what you think about other people using CRUDE.dll for their own apps wouldn't hurt, either. :)
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Khrillian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.01 10:55:00 -
[105]
Are we still limited to 20 queries per day? I know you can query multiple records at once with commas, but it's a tad easier for me to do one at a time.
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.01 12:51:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Khrillian Are we still limited to 20 queries per day? I know you can query multiple records at once with commas, but it's a tad easier for me to do one at a time.
Nope. This was actually only a bug with the documentation; I'd taken the limit out ages ago.
The site's currently being given a good going over- I'm in the process of refactoring one or two bits to make them easier to cache. As a result some parts are behaving erratically and we've had to disable indexes until we can sort out a better way to generate them, as they currently require too much memory to compute. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
ingenting
Cohors Alaria
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Posted - 2009.03.01 13:20:00 -
[107]
trying to view full list of sell orders on tritanium = constant loading of the page _________________ - "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb."
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.01 13:37:00 -
[108]
Originally by: ingenting trying to view full list of sell orders on tritanium = constant loading of the page
Odd- working fine here. I've just thrown a fix up to disable the click-order-for-details popup on the order pages if there's a lot of orders- see if that helps. The javascript might be slowing your browser down. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Khrillian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.01 13:37:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Khrillian Are we still limited to 20 queries per day? I know you can query multiple records at once with commas, but it's a tad easier for me to do one at a time.
Nope. This was actually only a bug with the documentation; I'd taken the limit out ages ago.
The site's currently being given a good going over- I'm in the process of refactoring one or two bits to make them easier to cache. As a result some parts are behaving erratically and we've had to disable indexes until we can sort out a better way to generate them, as they currently require too much memory to compute.
Thanks.
I'm not too familiar with generating indicies. What do you want yours to be beyond a simple weighted average? Is most of the problem cleaning up the data before you average it and weighting multi-region indices?
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Salvis Tallan
Gallente The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.01 15:25:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Nick Turing
Edit: System.IO.Compression.Deflatestream should do the job, I believe.
You are awesome, that worked perfectly. One less file to distribute! ------
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.01 18:16:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Khrillian Thanks.
I'm not too familiar with generating indicies. What do you want yours to be beyond a simple weighted average? Is most of the problem cleaning up the data before you average it and weighting multi-region indices?
The main problem is that we have to pull a lot of data into the web process; we're talking around 30,000 market orders, plus a goodly chunk of historic price and movement data. We're then taking out all the crap by doing some quartile filtering (aka boxplot outlier filtering), then calculating standard deviation/variance for the remaining orders and filtering out again based on that. It's a very reliable method and does very well, and is actually very fast to do; however, trying to analyse a set of 33,000 items that way is going to result in some problems on any system.
Alternatives are doing daily generations asynchronously but we'd lose the ability to combine regional indexes unless we just did a simple mean on the result, or doing it asynchronously on load on a background worker then spitting it up once it's loaded.
Nearly all of the market is now cached as fragments; my next job is to work out when to expire those caches and to implement that, and then to get heavy-handed on the SQL optimisation and look at other options for order filtering (prefiltering as orders are uploaded is one thing I'm looking at, as it'd reduce most ops to a simple mean calculation). -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Zeerover
Caldari DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2009.03.01 20:13:00 -
[112]
Nice work, a bit laggy but otherwise great.
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vvizard NOR
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Posted - 2009.03.02 05:11:00 -
[113]
This sounds incredible interesting. I cant at first glance understand why this should be EULA-illegal (without checking it). These files are on my HDD, if they cant be used to get a market advantage, they shouldn't be on the HDD in the first place if you ask me.
But tbh, until you get a developer API, you're no good to me. My tools rely on the developer API from eve-central, not their web frontend.
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ksc1226
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Posted - 2009.03.02 06:12:00 -
[114]
Originally by: vvizard NOR This sounds incredible interesting. I cant at first glance understand why this should be EULA-illegal (without checking it). These files are on my HDD, if they cant be used to get a market advantage, they shouldn't be on the HDD in the first place if you ask me.
But tbh, until you get a developer API, you're no good to me. My tools rely on the developer API from eve-central, not their web frontend.
First of all thats terrible logic. Eve is on my computer...that doesn't mean I can go around editing all of their files and messing with the program.
Also they do have an API. http://www.eve-metrics.com/developers/help
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.03 00:06:00 -
[115]
Originally by: vvizard NOR This sounds incredible interesting. I cant at first glance understand why this should be EULA-illegal (without checking it). These files are on my HDD, if they cant be used to get a market advantage, they shouldn't be on the HDD in the first place if you ask me.
But tbh, until you get a developer API, you're no good to me. My tools rely on the developer API from eve-central, not their web frontend.
It's not our place to question the EULA :) we abide by it just fine, in any case.
The developer API exists and has done since day one. Press 'developers' in the main menu for more information on that, as the post above describes.
We've just finished sorting out the write-through cache which has improved performance dramatically and helped server load too. I'm in the middle of sorting out some major(ish) changes to the way we do order filtering which will reduce load a huge amount and let us bring the indexes section back with any luck! -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Khrillian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.03 01:56:00 -
[116]
Is posting source to a cache reader actually against the EULA, even though it evidently isn't against the EULA to use one? Are you just doing it as a favor to CCP?
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Capt Nightmare
Gallente Eve Logic
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Posted - 2009.03.03 04:38:00 -
[117]
This is nonsense!
Keep your mumbo jumbo hocus pocus trading tools away I tell you! You will be the death of trading!
Burn them all!!!!
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Ahro Thariori
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Posted - 2009.03.03 12:32:00 -
[118]
This is a truly great project and it's always nice to see someone spending their spare time to make all our lifes easier. I even think that the objections ala "you guys get the data first", "you can take over my business" are invalid. With the kind of time sunk in a project like this, Ix&Co would be much better off putting that time into RL jobs and then converting that RL cash into isk via GTCs. I am positive that there is more to this than making Ix an isk billionaire.
Now, I have some questions, too:
1) Who is on the team besides Ix Forres, Salvis Tallan and "kind of" YunFu Yan? How open is it? Could I contribute later this year when I have more spare time? Will this site die if you suddenly decide to leave EVE in half a year? I am asking because I understand that e.g. eve-central is more than a one-and-a-half-man show (maybe I am wrong).
2) Had you considered teaming up with eve-central? Before you got this far ofc. It seems your most important contribution is the cache reading. Building your own site is probably just an exercise for you. Is it? Is it a case of "not-invented-here" ;)? Or do you have some long-term interest in exercising control over the whole process ? Eve-Central seems to have stable servers and a stable API, unlike yourself. If you care to elaborate: what is your strategic goal in superseeding eve-central?
3) Will the dev api always be free and open (even once you introduce paid-for services)?
Thx,
Ahro |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.03 12:38:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Ahro Thariori
2) Had you considered teaming up with eve-central? Before you got this far ofc. It seems your most important contribution is the cache reading. Building your own site is probably just an exercise for you. Is it? Is it a case of "not-invented-here" ;)? Or do you have some long-term interest in exercising control over the whole process ? Eve-Central seems to have stable servers and a stable API, unlike yourself. If you care to elaborate: what is your strategic goal in superseeding eve-central?
They should feel free to develop independently, that's the nature of competition.
My feelings on Banks are similar; competition, new and different services, etc is good for the markets.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Ahro Thariori
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Posted - 2009.03.03 12:50:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: Ahro Thariori
2) Had you considered teaming up with eve-central? Before you got this far ofc. It seems your most important contribution is the cache reading. Building your own site is probably just an exercise for you. Is it? Is it a case of "not-invented-here" ;)? Or do you have some long-term interest in exercising control over the whole process ? Eve-Central seems to have stable servers and a stable API, unlike yourself. If you care to elaborate: what is your strategic goal in superseeding eve-central?
They should feel free to develop independently, that's the nature of competition.
My feelings on Banks are similar; competition, new and different services, etc is good for the markets.
I don't know if that is a valid comparison. There is a lot to compete about with banks. Or vice-versa: if your comment is dead-on then there is more to his project than community spirit. Which ofc isn't bad per se.
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Hel O'Ween
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.03 13:13:00 -
[121]
If I may add a feature request for the API.
For what you call Type Data (http://www.eve-metrics.com/market/view/<% Type ID %>.xml), adding some additional data would be nice. Like item volume and minimum prices (buy and sell).
Of course, I could retrieve a complete order list and compute that myself, but doing a SELECT SUM or SELECT MIN on the server side and sending a few XML nodes more seems to be much more efficient (even traffic wise) than me pulling all data over and throwing away everything afterwards.
BTW, your API help page still states that ...
Quote:
By default resources are permitted 20 calls per hour at absolute most per key. Beyond this you will receive an error telling you to come back later.
... whereas you mentioned in this thread here, that you removed this limit. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Capt Nightmare
Gallente Eve Logic
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 14:58:00 -
[122]
Apparantly some moderator thought it would be funny to delete my post which outed my opinion about this "service" or whatever you would like to call it.
Tools like these will in my opinion destroy the eve market, every fool wont have to put any effort into trading if this "service" starts working as intended. When will the day come where I can click a button and it will instantly tell me what to buy where and where to sell it for the most highest of margins?
I am surprised to see so many support this instead of rejecting this idea. The only people I see appreciating this "service" are people who don't know how to trade themselves. Profit should be for the working people and I mean the traders who put effort into what they are doing, not for the people who go to some website who tells them what to do.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.03 15:26:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Hexxx on 03/03/2009 15:33:31
Originally by: Capt Nightmare Apparantly some moderator thought it would be funny to delete my post which outed my opinion about this "service" or whatever you would like to call it.
Tools like these will in my opinion destroy the eve market, every fool wont have to put any effort into trading if this "service" starts working as intended. When will the day come where I can click a button and it will instantly tell me what to buy where and where to sell it for the most highest of margins?
I am surprised to see so many support this instead of rejecting this idea. The only people I see appreciating this "service" are people who don't know how to trade themselves. Profit should be for the working people and I mean the traders who put effort into what they are doing, not for the people who go to some website who tells them what to do.
This service provides market data.
People get rich by turning data into information, and information into knowledge. Data itself is nice, but data alone does not a profit make.
I was initially going to say "Adapt or Die" but I think the commentary on data vs. information vs. knowledge is more constructive.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Capt Nightmare
Gallente Eve Logic
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Posted - 2009.03.03 16:08:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Hexxx Edited by: Hexxx on 03/03/2009 15:33:31
Originally by: Capt Nightmare Apparantly some moderator thought it would be funny to delete my post which outed my opinion about this "service" or whatever you would like to call it.
Tools like these will in my opinion destroy the eve market, every fool wont have to put any effort into trading if this "service" starts working as intended. When will the day come where I can click a button and it will instantly tell me what to buy where and where to sell it for the most highest of margins?
I am surprised to see so many support this instead of rejecting this idea. The only people I see appreciating this "service" are people who don't know how to trade themselves. Profit should be for the working people and I mean the traders who put effort into what they are doing, not for the people who go to some website who tells them what to do.
This service provides market data.
People get rich by turning data into information, and information into knowledge. Data itself is nice, but data alone does not a profit make.
I was initially going to say "Adapt or Die" but I think the commentary on data vs. information vs. knowledge is more constructive.
Exactly, it provides market data. Every bit of market data will be availible to everyone in eve and I dont know why you don't see that there will be a problem with that.
People get rich by buying low and selling high and this service tells them exactly where to do this.
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Mephistocles
Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.03 16:33:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Mephistocles on 03/03/2009 16:33:58
Originally by: Capt Nightmare Exactly, it provides market data. Every bit of market data will be availible to everyone in eve and I dont know why you don't see that there will be a problem with that.
People get rich by buying low and selling high and this service tells them exactly where to do this.
So you are saying that being able to view the exact same data you can using the in game market browser is instantly going to make people "rich"?
Does this data automatically make someone a good trader or make good decisions?
Hey! Look at this: http://www.eve-metrics.com/market/view/3707-blue-pill
You can buy this at 8 isk per unit and then sell to a buy order at 100! That's a 1,150% markup! A gross profit of 92%! zomg! We're all going to be rich!
*edited to linkify |
Capt Nightmare
Gallente Eve Logic
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Posted - 2009.03.03 16:55:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Mephistocles Edited by: Mephistocles on 03/03/2009 16:33:58
Originally by: Capt Nightmare Exactly, it provides market data. Every bit of market data will be availible to everyone in eve and I dont know why you don't see that there will be a problem with that.
People get rich by buying low and selling high and this service tells them exactly where to do this.
So you are saying that being able to view the exact same data you can using the in game market browser is instantly going to make people "rich"?
Does this data automatically make someone a good trader or make good decisions?
Hey! Look at this: http://www.eve-metrics.com/market/view/3707-blue-pill
You can buy this at 8 isk per unit and then sell to a buy order at 100! That's a 1,150% markup! A gross profit of 92%! zomg! We're all going to be rich!
*edited to linkify
I find your comment very shallow!
As a trader I spend alot of time researching region's markets in order to find products. Products that sell well and are needed. I look what prices to buy at and what prices to sell at. I go through alot of products that way and it takes alot of time to do this...
Why do I do this? Because it's worth it because it pays off. I also do this because many others don't because they can't be bothered. What you get are traders like me who are willing to spend alot of time finding these profitable opportunities.
If everybody is just going to be given all this information with a click of a button it will greatly decrease the chance of finding these profitable opportunities because all the data is laid out there for anyone to see.
I probably shouldnt be quoting this.. If you can't see past your nose thats your problem
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Mephistocles
Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.03 17:11:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Capt Nightmare I find your comment very shallow!
As a trader I spend alot of time researching region's markets in order to find products. Products that sell well and are needed. I look what prices to buy at and what prices to sell at. I go through alot of products that way and it takes alot of time to do this...
Why do I do this? Because it's worth it because it pays off. I also do this because many others don't because they can't be bothered. What you get are traders like me who are willing to spend alot of time finding these profitable opportunities.
If everybody is just going to be given all this information with a click of a button it will greatly decrease the chance of finding these profitable opportunities because all the data is laid out there for anyone to see.
I probably shouldnt be quoting this.. If you can't see past your nose thats your problem
Have you even visited the site? You have to search for the item or browse through the listings. Exactly as you would in game. The only difference here is you can get multiple regions in the same list. Are you telling me that the only thing you have to do to be successful at trading is travel to different regions to collect data? Is that all you do? Or is that just the first step?
It's just as Hexx said. Data does not a trader make. It's really not a difficult concept. |
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.03 17:12:00 -
[128]
Register/login doesn't seem to currently look correctly. I can register but cannot login. It seems to think my login information is invalid.
Eve Radio - Playing Music To The Masses! |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 19:44:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Ahro Thariori This is a truly great project and it's always nice to see someone spending their spare time to make all our lifes easier. I even think that the objections ala "you guys get the data first", "you can take over my business" are invalid. With the kind of time sunk in a project like this, Ix&Co would be much better off putting that time into RL jobs and then converting that RL cash into isk via GTCs. I am positive that there is more to this than making Ix an isk billionaire.
Now, I have some questions, too:
1) Who is on the team besides Ix Forres, Salvis Tallan and "kind of" YunFu Yan? How open is it? Could I contribute later this year when I have more spare time? Will this site die if you suddenly decide to leave EVE in half a year? I am asking because I understand that e.g. eve-central is more than a one-and-a-half-man show (maybe I am wrong).
2) Had you considered teaming up with eve-central? Before you got this far ofc. It seems your most important contribution is the cache reading. Building your own site is probably just an exercise for you. Is it? Is it a case of "not-invented-here" ;)? Or do you have some long-term interest in exercising control over the whole process ? Eve-Central seems to have stable servers and a stable API, unlike yourself. If you care to elaborate: what is your strategic goal in superseeding eve-central?
3) Will the dev api always be free and open (even once you introduce paid-for services)?
Thx,
Ahro
1) Code/server-wise, it's a one-man gig. If I left EVE (hah!) I'd still keep it all up or pass it on to someone else. The 'team' is quite fluid- there's the group of people who sit in #eve-metrics and join in discussions, make suggestions and talk technical when it comes to the site.
2) I'm not sure about the E-C stability claims- my bookmark for E-C in firefox is titled 'Site currently unavailable'. We're aiming to better them on that front, at any rate. We did look at partnering with them but their data isn't great, and we figured a spot of competition would be healthy considering how stagnated E-C's development has been recently.
3) Yes. Tools that require the paid subscription will provide APIs, which will require authentication to use. However, the public, free APIs will always remain free.
OK, next post... yeah, market 'zomg this is for one guy to get rich' stuff. I have a deep, dark secret I have been hiding: I'm not a trader. Seriously. My transaction API log is more or less empty aside from the odd ship/ammo purchase, but that's mostly through my corp's web store; I live in 0.0 and have few empire alts (Two- one in lowsec Forge space and another in Domain for the purposes of generating test data for EVE Metrics before we released). I had to bring in outside brains to help me understand what traders wanted and how to best provide that.
When it comes to my motive: I love doing stuff like this. Writing websites people like to use, maybe making a bit of ISK through premium services and ads (Heck, I run ISKsense, isn't that evidence enough I don't trade? I consider that good income.. ) but mainly I'm writing it because it's a challenge, it's fun, and it makes life easier for people. I was always a bit sad that EVE Central wasn't all that it could be and seemed to have stalled, and this gave me a chance to revitalise the EVE market website niche and bring something fresh, interesting and new to the table. I don't have any dirty ulterior motives (other than using my new-found unique data source to control the market and ensure trillions of ISK reach my wallet, ofc ).
Quote: It's just as Hexx said. Data does not a trader make. It's really not a difficult concept.
Very true. I'm a prime example. I can't do crap with this data; I understand how you could use it, of course, but when it comes to the practicalities of the market, I only found out you could edit orders last week on sisi.
I'm looking at the login bug reported above. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Capt Nightmare
Gallente Eve Logic
|
Posted - 2009.03.03 21:36:00 -
[130]
Quote: OK, next post... yeah, market 'zomg this is for one guy to get rich' stuff. I have a deep, dark secret I have been hiding: I'm not a trader. Seriously. My transaction API log is more or less empty aside from the odd ship/ammo purchase, but that's mostly through my corp's web store; I live in 0.0 and have few empire alts (Two- one in lowsec Forge space and another in Domain for the purposes of generating test data for EVE Metrics before we released). I had to bring in outside brains to help me understand what traders wanted and how to best provide that.
Quote:
I don't have any dirty ulterior motives (other than using my new-found unique data source to control the market and ensure trillions of ISK reach my wallet, ofc Rolling Eyes).
It is funny that you say this :) I never claimed anything like this. You should re-read what has been posted. Either way it matters not, it's not against the rules so what is there to do about it.
Good luck! :)
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.03 22:59:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Capt Nightmare
It is funny that you say this :) I never claimed anything like this. You should re-read what has been posted. Either way it matters not, it's not against the rules so what is there to do about it.
Good luck! :)
Ok, now is the part where I say "Adapt or Die".
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Nick Turing
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Posted - 2009.03.03 23:36:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Capt Nightmare Apparantly some moderator thought it would be funny to delete my post which outed my opinion about this "service" or whatever you would like to call it.
Tools like these will in my opinion destroy the eve market, every fool wont have to put any effort into trading if this "service" starts working as intended. When will the day come where I can click a button and it will instantly tell me what to buy where and where to sell it for the most highest of margins?
I am surprised to see so many support this instead of rejecting this idea. The only people I see appreciating this "service" are people who don't know how to trade themselves. Profit should be for the working people and I mean the traders who put effort into what they are doing, not for the people who go to some website who tells them what to do.
Real world stock markets have near perfect information - certainly far better than what's available in eve, even with a service like this. However, people do make profits on the stock market (others make losses, of course).
Of course, there is something in what you're saying insofar as economics claims that more perfect market information reduces market inefficiency. If your trading relies on exploiting inefficiency, then yes, you might have a more challenging time. It's nobody's job but your own to protect your profit margins, though. Saying "I can't believe anybody's supporting this because it would hurt my bottom line" seems a bit short-sighted.
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Zalmun
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Posted - 2009.03.04 02:29:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: Capt Nightmare
It is funny that you say this :) I never claimed anything like this. You should re-read what has been posted. Either way it matters not, it's not against the rules so what is there to do about it.
Good luck! :)
Ok, now is the part where I say "Adapt or Die".
+1 for EVE-Metrics, great site.
I totally agree with Hexxx: Adapt or Die.
I've been trading off and on again for a couple years now, and EVE-Metrics provides me with an easy recall of data I collect on my own anyways, and gives it in more regions to boot. Contributing my market views hasn't been a detriment at all, and I'm even finding my research go faster as a result of being able to quickly cross-reference stuff.
I consider uploading my market views my contribution back to the site and community. If you figure I'm being foolish by doing so, that's your opinion, and doesn't really matter in how I do my business anyways. All I know is that I'm profiting, and this is a tool that helps me do so. If others are profiting off my efforts, good for them too. There's plenty of ISK out there to be had by anyone willing to do the work.
Again I have to express my thanks to the creators and contributors to EVE Metrics for a top notch tool. I hope you folks continue to improve it and expand in popularity! |
Ahro Thariori
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Posted - 2009.03.04 14:23:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Ahro Thariori on 04/03/2009 14:25:53
Originally by: Ix Forres The 'team' is quite fluid- there's the group of people who sit in #eve-metrics and join in discussions, make suggestions and talk technical when it comes to the site.
Thx for the pointer. Downloading the Uploader... Here are some more pointers: edit: linkification
Ix's blog <- very cool guy, he is doing lots of interesting stuff. The rather new twitter feed (also check the user used to feed the birdie) Bug Tracker Feedback, Suggestion Board Pledge to donate towards server needs Wiki Entry
I've also found your competition's response. [ he's a one-man gig, too]
btw, tried to register, cant login though. But user: bugmenot pass: bugmenot works |
Menkaure
Amarr Vanitas Corp.
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Posted - 2009.03.05 03:38:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Register/login doesn't seem to currently look correctly. I can register but cannot login. It seems to think my login information is invalid.
I'm having this issue aswell.
Quote: No such user exists! Please check your username.
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Namco
Balls of Steel
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Posted - 2009.03.05 04:41:00 -
[136]
Still waiting on a version of the uploader that does cache reads on Vista 64. :)
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Rodrigo Talavera
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Posted - 2009.03.05 06:41:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Menkaure
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Register/login doesn't seem to currently look correctly. I can register but cannot login. It seems to think my login information is invalid.
I'm having this issue aswell.
Quote: No such user exists! Please check your username.
Me too
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Marcus D'Eriellius
Gallente Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.05 21:15:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Marcus D''Eriellius on 05/03/2009 21:16:11 How long is the gap between data being uploaded and it being displayed on the site?
I had thought it would be instant like Eve-Central but it would seem that there's a several-hour delay before data I upload appears in either the web query or API. (In fact after looking more closely none of my data from the last few days has shown up on the website even though the uploader is telling me everything is OK).
I also have problems querying your data via the API in google spreadsheets. The Eve-Metrics server takes too long to return API results so google times out waiting for it. Would one huge (50 item) query or several smaller ones be better from a load point of view?
I still would really love the ability to filter outliers in the price_data.xml API, basically I want to know how much it's going to cost me to buy at least 100,000 units of a certain item. I can do this at Eve-central (after a fashion, it'll tell the me the cost of the cheapest sell order of at least 100,000 units but not the average price of the cheapest 100,000 units) but not at Eve-metrics presently. (Pretty please)
Edit fur spellin and grammur
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.05 21:27:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Marcus D'Eriellius Edited by: Marcus D''Eriellius on 05/03/2009 21:16:11 How long is the gap between data being uploaded and it being displayed on the site?
I had thought it would be instant like Eve-Central but it would seem that there's a several-hour delay before data I upload appears in either the web query or API. (In fact after looking more closely none of my data from the last few days has shown up on the website even though the uploader is telling me everything is OK).
I also have problems querying your data via the API in google spreadsheets. The Eve-Metrics server takes too long to return API results so google times out waiting for it. Would one huge (50 item) query or several smaller ones be better from a load point of view?
I still would really love the ability to filter outliers in the price_data.xml API, basically I want to know how much it's going to cost me to buy at least 100,000 units of a certain item. I can do this at Eve-central (after a fashion, it'll tell the me the cost of the cheapest sell order of at least 100,000 units but not the average price of the cheapest 100,000 units) but not at Eve-metrics presently. (Pretty please)
Edit fur spellin and grammur
Outliers are filtered on the price_data API, and it makes little difference on the load; more requests are generally bad, so do the single huge-query request or break it up into 3-4 requests if it's performing too slowly.
There should be no delay between upload and display; however, it rather looks like our background workers are overwhelmed with work right now and we're gonna be running more of them to cope with the load.
The API performance will improve with a major update we're polishing up for release shortly. This update will also fix the registration bug and add 'forgot password' functionality.
We're also going to be providing a real-time push feed of uploaded CSVs via Gnip. I'll throw up some docs for that later on. The format used for Gnip tags is identical to the already existant EVE Central feed so you can use those to combine data from sites if you are so inclined . -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Marcus D'Eriellius
Gallente Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.06 07:03:00 -
[140]
Can't wait! Keep up the great work.
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ksc1226
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Posted - 2009.03.08 01:49:00 -
[141]
From what I understand the cache file reader also reads in the market graphs/tables. It would be a huge help if the number of items traded per day in a region is available with the api.
And by the way, great service!
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.08 12:35:00 -
[142]
Originally by: ksc1226 From what I understand the cache file reader also reads in the market graphs/tables. It would be a huge help if the number of items traded per day in a region is available with the api.
And by the way, great service!
I'll add this into the API shortly.
The 64-bit compatible uploader is now out: http://www.eve-metrics.com/downloads
We're almost done switching to our new outlier filtering mechanism; everything looks good so far! -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Rodrigo Talavera
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Posted - 2009.03.09 01:30:00 -
[143]
Still can't login and start uploading. Any eta on that?
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Maestro Del'Tirith
Del'Tirith Holdings
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:30:00 -
[144]
I'm in love with this tool, especially once you set your favorite regions up. I'd say my biggest complaint is performance...the site really needs more juice. I'd be interested to hear from the site owner what is being done about that and how others could help.
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Zaepho
Gallente Balls of Steel
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:36:00 -
[145]
Awesome tool! Glad I can finally log in and upload under my own application key.
Feature request: Information about the "most needed" items in your favorite regions. i.e. let us know what data needs to be updated the most.
Question: Do you have to open both tabs of the market info to get the cache data for the graphs or does simply pulling the order list for the item also cause the client to cache the market history tab data? (i.e. do i need to start clicking both tabs on the items I'm collecting data for?)
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Salvis Tallan
Gallente The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:47:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Zaepho
Question: Do you have to open both tabs of the market info to get the cache data for the graphs or does simply pulling the order list for the item also cause the client to cache the market history tab data? (i.e. do i need to start clicking both tabs on the items I'm collecting data for?)
Nope! Just pull up one page and away goes both types of data. ------
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Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:14:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Ix Forres on 09/03/2009 18:15:30 Edited by: Ix Forres on 09/03/2009 18:14:47
Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith I'm in love with this tool, especially once you set your favorite regions up. I'd say my biggest complaint is performance...the site really needs more juice. I'd be interested to hear from the site owner what is being done about that and how others could help.
Performance is being worked on as much as possible; it's a priority right now. If you'd like to help support the site, what it really needs is it's own server; you can help towards the costs of a new server by buying your GTCs through EVE Metrics or donating on the link at the bottom. The server it's on right now is shared with a bunch of other apps including ISKsense, which is fairly intensive in it's own right, and it gets pretty bogged down with all those sites.
In regards to the 'which tab do I view' question, I think I'm right in saying that you just need to browse the orders tab. Salvis will correct me if I'm wrong... :) Edit: GET OUT OF MY HEAD SALVIS
Quote: Still can't login and start uploading. Any eta on that?
Could you expand on that? What issue are you having? Throw in a bug report if it appears to be something broken. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Marcus D'Eriellius
Gallente Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:45:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Marcus D''Eriellius on 09/03/2009 19:54:56 I think Maestro is having the same issues as I have been for the last few days. I can login and on the My Metrics page it tells me:
EMU Statistics So far you've uploaded 1,359 market orders to EVE Metrics.
When I make more market uploads (all apparently successful with the uploader) that number increases but none of my uploads actually make it through to the database. You can see this with something like the Obelisk; there's one for sale in Lonetrek for 860mil which I have uploaded, but a search of Eve-metrics still tells me that the cheapest is 869mil.
Edit - The API server also fails if you specify a system as part of the query, region and unrestricted queries work fine. Bug report is submitted via the feedback tab on the right but this doesn't raise a ticket on http://jamesharrison.lighthouseapp.com/projects/22520-eve-metrics/overview is the feedback tab the right way to submit bug reports?
http://www.eve-metrics.com/market_reports/price_data.xml?type_ids=34&system_ids=30000142
Quote: We're sorry, EVE Metrics is experiencing technical difficulties
Something happened behind the scenes which has stopped your request from succeeding, sorry.
We apologise for the inconvenience. We've just been notified in several different ways, and will be fixing this bug as soon as we can.
|
Zalmun
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 20:13:00 -
[149]
Same problem here in regards to uploading and updating. I've been using the uploader all the time now, and while it did take info from me for a while, it hasn't updated in over a week, at least on the metrics page. I was #50 on the top metrics uploading a couple days ago, and it didn't change for a week or so.
I see the #50 is updated now and my number of uploads has changed a bit, so hopefully it's working now.
|
Dei
Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 21:28:00 -
[150]
Hmmmmm, for some reason the site will not load at all from my computer. Works from elsewhere, and tried multiple browsers. Any particular reason this might be? ---
The true master paralyses his opponent, leaving him vulnerable to attack |
|
Amali Go
|
Posted - 2009.03.10 00:54:00 -
[151]
not bad
|
Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 11:36:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Hexxx Edited by: Hexxx on 25/02/2009 00:26:56 http://www.eve-metrics.com/
Update: Ix Forres is actively updating EVE Metrics, the recent heavy adoption raised some previously unknown issues. All should be well for now, if you had problems using EVE Metrics before, give it a try now. And please remember...spread the word and the adoption. The more people who use the uploader, the higher the quality and quantity the data is. Get your friends, family, dog, cousins, and great grandparents to install the nifty EVE Metrics uploader from the EVE Metrics site!
This is a website similar in function to EVE Central, with one important difference; it includes a tool that automatically uploads any market data you view while playing EVE. It does this by "scraping" the cache files that EVE uses when you view the market details for anything. No fuss, no muss, just automatic feeds of data.
There is also security that prevents false market data from entering the database and some extremely useful reporting and statistic tools. In the future, they plan on having an API for developers to use.
Check out the website, check out the reports, check out how awesome this is!
All this from Ix Forres, the guy who created IskSense.
i like it for the most part.
Would be nice if...
say you misspelled something and then it gave you a Google type "did you mean x?" suggestion.
Also if you look inside a category list of items and it was in alphabetical order. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Victor Valka
Caldari Kissaki Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.03.11 12:08:00 -
[153]
This is a great tool and Ix Forres is my new hero! Top notch job, Ix!
(+1 user!)
Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
|
Takri Bour
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 11:06:00 -
[154]
Bump it ... great tool
|
Caladain Barton
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 21:00:00 -
[155]
Well, i have sad news. I filed a petition asking if it was okay to decode the Market cache (i was going to do it in my own programs) and got back the following today:
2009.03.12 12:57:00 GM Gilsev ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi,
Please accept our apologies for the late reply.
After a review of this situation there is a button available in game which allows for the export of market information to a separate file.
If you are attempting to decode the cache files in order to gain the market information, this is not allowed and is a violation of the EULA and is not allowed.
Best Regards, GM Gilsev The EVE Online Customer Support Team
------
Sorry guys, i was just double checking with CCP before sinking time into developing that module for my programs. :-(
|
Daphne Eveningstar
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:05:00 -
[156]
/me opens popcorn
|
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:38:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Caladain Barton Well, i have sad news. I filed a petition asking if it was okay to decode the Market cache (i was going to do it in my own programs) and got back the following today:
2009.03.12 12:57:00 GM Gilsev ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi,
Please accept our apologies for the late reply.
After a review of this situation there is a button available in game which allows for the export of market information to a separate file.
If you are attempting to decode the cache files in order to gain the market information, this is not allowed and is a violation of the EULA and is not allowed.
Best Regards, GM Gilsev The EVE Online Customer Support Team
------
Sorry guys, i was just double checking with CCP before sinking time into developing that module for my programs. :-(
With all due respect to GM Gilsev, we did check with CCP at a high level before we released. Well in advance of release, in fact. We have not been told not to distribute the application in obfuscated format. If CCP ever come up to us and tell us we can't keep distributing it then we will of course cease distributing, but until they change their position from allowing us to stopping us we'll continue to distribute it.
The module for cache decoding is obfuscated to stop any programs but EMU from using it, and the license also explicitly forbids use of the module. It's also locked down somewhat to prevent you from trying to load it in other programs. This is done to keep the module entirely secure and to avoid any controversy regarding it with CCP so as not to cause issues to other players or the site. We put a chunk of effort into making EMU as safe for players as possible, and that includes keeping within CCP's wishes in regards to the EULA. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:47:00 -
[158]
*cough*
I keep that link handy for just this sort of thing ;)
_
Got Item? | EVE API? |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 22:49:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Entity *cough*
I keep that link handy for just this sort of thing ;)
Knew there was a post confirming what I was saying somewhere. The confirmation we got was a private communication and CCP tend to not like posting those up on the internets. Cheers for the repost. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 23:47:00 -
[160]
Just to say that all new Apochribba items are now viewable on the site. Any market uploads made for those items were loaded in when they were submitted and are now viewable. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
|
Ahro Thariori
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 03:24:00 -
[161]
friendly bump
|
Caladain Barton
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 00:20:00 -
[162]
Can we then have an Official CCP representative give judgment on this topic? I've gotten a "No" from a GM, filed through the petition system. You've got a private "yes" from who knows who and when. I don't doubt you, but i'd really like to have someone official come and "stamp" this as okay in a public manner.
Partly so i feel better about using Eve-Metrics, and partly so i feel better about decoding the cache.
|
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 01:21:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Ix Forres on 15/03/2009 01:37:58
Originally by: Caladain Barton Can we then have an Official CCP representative give judgment on this topic? I've gotten a "No" from a GM, filed through the petition system. You've got a private "yes" from who knows who and when. I don't doubt you, but i'd really like to have someone official come and "stamp" this as okay in a public manner.
Partly so i feel better about using Eve-Metrics, and partly so i feel better about decoding the cache.
As linked above, this is CCP's stance on the matter....
As detailed in the README bundled with the installer, you can delete CRUDE.dll from the install folder. This will remove EMU's ability to use cache decoding and turn it into a EVE Central-style log uploader. Logfiles can be uploaded by EMU as well as cache, but by removing CRUDE you limit it to just reading logs. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Capt Nightmare
Gallente Eve Logic
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 03:59:00 -
[164]
I accidentally the program and crude.dll!
|
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 14:53:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Capt Nightmare I accidentally the program and crude.dll!
You accidentally the whole program?
EVE Metrics is getting more tools for wormholes in the next day or so, including some map utilities to let you see what class a wormhole will lead you to, what a given loci's class is, and so on. Behind the scenes we're also adding map API scraping and so on for more intelligence in regards to systems. And performance increases are, as ever, being introduced. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Sir Ibex
|
Posted - 2009.03.15 17:51:00 -
[166]
Would it be possible to make an offline version of this, so players can do this for themselves instead of everyone?
|
Kitchie
Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.17 17:29:00 -
[167]
I'm getting a lot of errors, both in uploading market data through the app and also just accessing the site.
At the moment, site access error is: Proxy Error
The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. The proxy server could not handle the request GET /.
Reason: Error reading from remote server
I don't use a proxy so the problem is at Eve-Metrics end....
|
Maestro Del'Tirith
Del'Tirith Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.03.18 03:16:00 -
[168]
Are you SURE you don't use a proxy? Is it home internet provider or is it provided by college or whatnot?
|
ksc1226
|
Posted - 2009.03.19 22:55:00 -
[169]
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but regardless of what specifications I input I always get movement=0. For example, when specifying the range to The Forge region and the item to tritanium:
http://www.eve-metrics.com/market_reports/price_data.xml?type_ids=34®ion_ids=10000002
I still get movement as 0. Can you plz tell me what I'm doing wrng here. Thanks.
|
Khrillian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.03.20 01:38:00 -
[170]
Anyone know what's going on with this? I'm looking up the Mexallon summary data and Jita clearly has sell orders but the XML page has 0/0 for sell order high/low.
XML: http://www.eve-metrics.com/market_reports/price_data.xml?type_ids=36&system_ids=30000142
Full Orders: http://www.eve-metrics.com/market/order_list/36
|
|
Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.21 22:47:00 -
[171]
I'm running into a large problem with all the new T3 parts...nothing is being uploaded. I know you guys are doing some fancy math to filter outliers, but with T3 parts being so rare right now everything is being flagged as an outlier. Can you look into this and possibly change the formula to account for these type of rare goods?
Yea, I know, the problem will be gone in another month or two when everything is fully seeded on the market, I'm impatient.
|
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 17:45:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau I'm running into a large problem with all the new T3 parts...nothing is being uploaded. I know you guys are doing some fancy math to filter outliers, but with T3 parts being so rare right now everything is being flagged as an outlier. Can you look into this and possibly change the formula to account for these type of rare goods?
Yea, I know, the problem will be gone in another month or two when everything is fully seeded on the market, I'm impatient.
I'm working on this and similar problems in the market at the moment- new uploads where there are no previous orders or not enough to base a decision on should be counted as not outliers by default.
API issues were bugreported; movement/order counts still have issues but the rest should be fixed. Please respond to the bugreport if you experience this again. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Xuma Ixchel
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 20:33:00 -
[173]
Your marketuploader sometimes stops reading cache files completely on occasion. The log stops updating.
|
Steffan apRhys
|
Posted - 2009.03.22 23:10:00 -
[174]
I've tried to run the uploader via WINE -- I'm using Ubuntu instead of Windows. So far no success. Is anyone else running the uploader with Linux and Wine or something else?
|
Capt Nightmare
Gallente TarNec
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 03:29:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Steffan apRhys I've tried to run the uploader via WINE -- I'm using Ubuntu instead of Windows. So far no success. Is anyone else running the uploader with Linux and Wine or something else?
Does WINE support the .net framework? If not thats why. -
Join the channel "SCC-Lounge" if you like talking about business and trade :)
-- |
Muscaat
Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 13:40:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Capt Nightmare
Originally by: Steffan apRhys I've tried to run the uploader via WINE -- I'm using Ubuntu instead of Windows. So far no success. Is anyone else running the uploader with Linux and Wine or something else?
Does WINE support the .net framework? If not thats why.
You'll need Mono (and not Wine) for anything .NET-related. I haven't yet tried the EVE Metrics uploader through Mono, but it's on my list of things to try.
|
Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.23 20:42:00 -
[177]
And on that note, if anyone gets this working on OS X I'd love to hear exactly how you did it.
|
Varo Jan
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.03.27 19:05:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Xuma Ixchel Your marketuploader sometimes stops reading cache files completely on occasion. The log stops updating.
It¦s not reading my cache files at all now, hasn¦t for at least a day, if not more.
Also, frequently get the message "Error uploading xxx.txt: No response from server."
|
Kitchie
Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 04:49:00 -
[179]
A few questions:
- How can I tell what version I'm running and whether I should upgrade
- Is it anything to with the uploader that my Market pages sometime don't update to current data?
- I've been religiously running the uploader but the XML reports are too limited to be of much use. What are the plans for those?
- As more people use this, lag seems to be becoming a problem. Is there anything that can be done?
I'd be more than happy to pay ISKies if more options were offered on the XML output - maybe you could rent out the Developers Keys if you're going to use them on the XML loads - 50 Mill a month for unlimited XML calls
|
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 21:41:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Kitchie A few questions:
- How can I tell what version I'm running and whether I should upgrade
- Is it anything to with the uploader that my Market pages sometime don't update to current data?
- I've been religiously running the uploader but the XML reports are too limited to be of much use. What are the plans for those?
- As more people use this, lag seems to be becoming a problem. Is there anything that can be done?
I'd be more than happy to pay ISKies if more options were offered on the XML output - maybe you could rent out the Developers Keys if you're going to use them on the XML loads - 50 Mill a month for unlimited XML calls
Version number should be on the application main window. I keep complaining at Salvis to do an autoupdater/update notifier but it's not in yet. If in doubt, update from the site.
If pages don't update it could be one of many things- cache in your browser, cache on the server, background worker on the server not processing your file yet or being overloaded with work, and so on. There's issues with some T3, too, which is being worked out.
Which XML reports do you find limiting? What else would you want from your API?
Serverside application performance is an issue I'm working on as much as possible. I don't get paid to write EVE Metrics in ú or ISK, so reality and other work takes priority; while things aren't flying along, it's all being worked on.
I do not intend to make data available at cost. The only site sections that may cost ISK will be specific tools that make use of the data. Data should be freely available for all, imo. Web hooks (POST) will be made available to replace the Gnip feed we have in place currently for pushed copies of all uploads we receive. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
|
Isaac Swift
|
Posted - 2009.03.28 23:37:00 -
[181]
I like it, but I wish there was an easier way to isolate individual regions. I like that I can have favorite regions, but there has to be an better way to search for the movement of item X in region Y.
|
Kitchie
Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.29 15:06:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Version number should be on the application main window. I keep complaining at Salvis to do an autoupdater/update notifier but it's not in yet. If in doubt, update from the site.
If pages don't update it could be one of many things- cache in your browser, cache on the server, background worker on the server not processing your file yet or being overloaded with work, and so on. There's issues with some T3, too, which is being worked out.
Which XML reports do you find limiting? What else would you want from your API?
Serverside application performance is an issue I'm working on as much as possible. I don't get paid to write EVE Metrics in ú or ISK, so reality and other work takes priority; while things aren't flying along, it's all being worked on.
I do not intend to make data available at cost. The only site sections that may cost ISK will be specific tools that make use of the data. Data should be freely available for all, imo. Web hooks (POST) will be made available to replace the Gnip feed we have in place currently for pushed copies of all uploads we receive.
I must be blind, I can't find a version number anywhere and I downloaded the latest version.
As at 14:40 (Eve Time) today, I cannot access www.eve-metrics.com - is it down? Also getting following on uploading:
Error in CRUDE: System.Xml.XmlException: The ';' character, hexadecimal value 0x3B, cannot be included in a name. Line 41, position 35. at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw(Exception e) at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw(String res, String[] args) etc. etc. etc.
I would like to be able to narrow down the full market data on an item to a region/System/Station. I have a program that sometimes wants to look up 100-200 items but it's only interested in Jita IV - Moon 4. At the moment it takes too long for each item to load and the bulk of the info is not relevant. (e.g. looking for something like http://api.eve-central.com/api/quicklook?typeid=".$itemID."&usesystem=30000142)
I appreciate that Eve-Metrics is just a sideline and that you're not paid for it but if you do insist on writing such a potentially brilliant system, you're going to have to live with a large number of people using it (server stress) and with requests for features.
I hope you stick with it!
Kitchie
|
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.03.29 17:32:00 -
[183]
If you mean the price_data API, you can system-filter that already. It may not be in the docs, but system_id=300000142 or system_ids=300000142,1241024,124012,40142214 (Making them up here ofc) will filter by system. I could add station-level filtering if it'd be useful- drop in a feature request for it so I don't forget.
The site was down most of today, and I do apologise- the server had to be powercycled by the datacenter. It's not a particularly happy machine at the moment.
If there's no version number on the program then complain loudly at Salvis. ¼_¼
-- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Kitchie
Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.29 20:30:00 -
[184]
System ID is fine - Sorry, I didn't realise that was available
Will push Salvis for version #
Thanks for the info!
Kitchie
|
Kitchie
Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 08:11:00 -
[185]
I was unable to use the system_id tag successfully, I still got everything.
Request used:
http://www.eve-metrics.com/market/order_list/34.xml?system_id=300000142&key=629A86869744140E2F6B6
|
Muscaat
Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2009.03.30 19:38:00 -
[186]
Could you include volume information in the API? How much volume is in buy orders compared to sell orders, for instance?
Also, I've noticed that sometimes API requests to market/view/$ITEM.xml return empty price elements. Can I take it that this happens when there's no data for that item? ---------- EVE Markets - global price trends at your fingertips |
Clay Orpheus
|
Posted - 2009.04.01 03:47:00 -
[187]
For me the site seems to be totally down. I can't access it at all - on 3 separate occasions I've tried to get into the site, and every time the connection just times out. Like the server isn't up at all. I wish I could use this tool, I really do, but I can't. Can someone give an explanation? I'm using Firefox and tried it on Safari, to no avail.
|
Maven Deltor
|
Posted - 2009.04.01 04:31:00 -
[188]
Eve metrics would be the greatest tool ever, if the server was more reliably available. You've really got something here, but it needs more of something on the server side. Timeouts are no fun, and will kill interest.
|
Bel Amar
Amarr Zero People Skills Black Scope Project
|
Posted - 2009.04.04 12:02:00 -
[189]
My cache uploads just don't seem to be showing on the site. I uploaded Heavy Ion Blaster II for the Heimatar region just over 12 hours ago for example, and the site is telling me there is no data at all for that item in that region. I'm fairly certain (though not 100%) that I also exported a log file, and if I did, that hasn't shown either.
|
Lagerstars
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 10:14:00 -
[190]
im also not seeing uploaded data appear. Is there a delay and if so how much? -----------------------------------------
|
|
SolusLunes
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 11:32:00 -
[191]
You've got yourself another user. This is brilliant. ------- Andreus Ixiris: This is what he doesn't believe I actually believe about what Caldari believe. SolusLunes: My head hurts. I must concede this round to you, sir. :( |
Miluuu
Imperium Galactica Omega Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 00:25:00 -
[192]
Hey guys,
on my personal page (http://www.eve-metrics.com/personal) I can see "So far you've uploaded XXXX market orders to EVE Metrics."
How is this counter calculated? This counter is different that I can see on the uploader tool after "Logfiles Uploaded".
|
Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 01:59:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Miluuu On my personal page (http://www.eve-metrics.com/personal) I can see "So far you've uploaded XXXX market orders to EVE Metrics."
How is this counter calculated? This counter is different that I can see on the uploader tool after "Logfiles Uploaded".
Is the 'you've uploaded x market orders' substantially larger than the 'logfiles uploaded' number?
Based only on those text labels, it looks like should be, since each typical market log file includes a bunch of market orders. I.e., usually all the orders for one region+item are rolled up into a single log file, so one log file upload constitutes multiple standing buy and sell orders.
|
Lagerstars
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 06:09:00 -
[194]
Is there any word on when this will be running with better live data? Uploads dont seem to show up and most stuff is now from 2+ weeks ago -----------------------------------------
|
Miluuu
Imperium Galactica Omega Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 10:29:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Miluuu on 13/04/2009 10:29:02
Originally by: Thoraemond
Originally by: Miluuu On my personal page (http://www.eve-metrics.com/personal) I can see "So far you've uploaded XXXX market orders to EVE Metrics."
How is this counter calculated? This counter is different that I can see on the uploader tool after "Logfiles Uploaded".
Is the 'you've uploaded x market orders' substantially larger than the 'logfiles uploaded' number?
Based only on those text labels, it looks like should be, since each typical market log file includes a bunch of market orders. I.e., usually all the orders for one region+item are rolled up into a single log file, so one log file upload constitutes multiple standing buy and sell orders.
Actually the 'uploaded market orders' is much smaller (~45%) than the 'logfiles uploaded' number. I was playing around with the tool on the weekend and I am nut sure it is a bug, or not, but something seems wrong (or the 2 numbers are based on completely different calculation method)
|
Cygwin Gaad
Caldari The Element Syndicate Black Mesa Project
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 11:28:00 -
[196]
This looks like a fantastic tool but im a tad worried that the data is 2 weeks old. i'll do my part to upload my market views. -
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 20:34:00 -
[197]
Quote: This looks like a fantastic tool but im a tad worried that the data is 2 weeks old. i'll do my part to upload my market views.
Also, it's still slow like hell. The "competitors" including the nudged at eve-central are 1-2 orders of magnitude faster.
|
Sappho Lesbos
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 20:52:00 -
[198]
Nice idea, but it is far too slow to be useful. The data is also very unreliable (old and sparse) and the uploader is buggy as crap compared to eve-central.
Hopefully this will be improved in the future, but for now I'll stick w/ the tried and true.
|
Random Lust
Minmatar Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 01:26:00 -
[199]
+1 new user here |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 11:00:00 -
[200]
Maybe I am unlucky but it seems 95% of what I search causes some server error before I get out something usable.
In the remaining 5%, there's a couple of decent results in the returned list, all the rest are stamped with 1-2 months old dates and thus useless.
|
|
Leana Darkrider
Creatio -ex- nihilo
|
Posted - 2009.05.07 11:55:00 -
[201]
I've tried it, and I think it's a cool program.
But there are some questions for you, hopefully you can answer them for me.
Why is EVE-Metrics better then EVE-central and in which way is it better?
How accurate is it? Let's say, If Invention profit calculator application 0.45 has the option to import the date from EVE-Metrics instead of EVE-Central, how accurate would these data be? I know EVE-Central isn't accurate
Cheers,
Leana
|
Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.05.10 13:38:00 -
[202]
The stuff sent by your web hook seems to have a bug. The first field is supposed to be the price, as far as i can tell, however decimal prices aren't split by a period (3.41), but by a comma (3,41), which makes it a tad difficult to find out what exactly a price is. Additionally the prices in the CSV files don't match up with the prices in your xml exports.
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Kypud
Zeus Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.05.10 18:27:00 -
[203]
Commas are used in some parts of the world, including large parts of Europe, instead of the decimal point. It would make it hard in a CSV tho :-/
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.10 19:37:00 -
[204]
As I'm german, I'm totally aware of that. However as a german programmer i also think that commas as decimal seperators have nothing at all to do in any sort of number-crunching that doesn't happen with the help of a pencil. ;)
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.17 20:40:00 -
[205]
Thanks for fixing the name formatting in the CSV files. :)
A question though, what does the second-to-last value in the CSV files mean? I cannot match it to any field in the XML exports.
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ScoobieBoy
Gallente SKots INdusTries
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Posted - 2009.06.16 20:54:00 -
[206]
Hey guys, I have a customer "My Docs" setup as I run mutliple clients, how can I set it up to read those ? Salvis, is there a structure ? and can it use shortcuts ? |
Astrixx
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Posted - 2009.06.27 09:23:00 -
[207]
is the site down? |
Xenofarion
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.29 16:15:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Xenofarion on 29/06/2009 16:16:58 How long (in average) does is take for the uploads to appear on the site? Some of the orders are old as hell and my freshly uploaded stuff doesn't seem to appear on the lists after ten minutes.
Edit: Or am i getting the term "Report Time" wrong and it doesn't tell me the time when the information has been uploaded?
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Squirrel Team
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Posted - 2009.06.30 02:48:00 -
[209]
Checking out eve-metrics for the first time tonight...what's the "deal" with the website. Multiple page load errors and sloooooooow loading pages.
Trying to load one page, I managed to go back to this forum, login, and post this reply....eve-metrics page has still not loaded. Is the site professionally hosted?
It sounds promising, but I don't know if I have the patience.
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Desmont McCallock
Phoenix Interstellar Corp
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Posted - 2009.07.04 08:45:00 -
[210]
I would like to say that till recently I've been using EVE-Central for my market reports and EVE-Metrics for a week now. I find EVE-Metrics Uploader way much better then the one that EVE-Central has. But..
I would like to suggest three things.
1) Make the Order lists (that appear when you browse a specific item) to show up to date data (let's say the first 20 best prices from the criteria you have entered). There is no point in showing anything unless it is useful.
2) Make the Sell Order-full list page ascending ordered and the Buy Order-full list page descending ordered by default. I think that's what the majority of users would like to see.
3) Ask for EVE-Metrics data to be embedded in tools like EVEMon etc.
Keep up the good work. Who knows you may same day overrun EVE-Central.
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