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Bottleneck fighting in FW

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Aynen	Posted - 2009.03.05 23:25:00 - [1] In the Gallente-Caldari conflict there are 4 bottleneck systems seperating each Empire. Apart from the 22nd occupation this is where one empire ends and the other begins. 4 systems is a pretty good bottleneck, which makes me wonder why fight-seeking droves of Militia men aren't using it better. If the fleets that gather would always be in those systems, big fights would be garanteed, without long searching trips back and forth between OMS and Tama. Instead it'd be a simple trip between, say Deven and Magamanen. And you'd know that there's always enemies in those systems. Plexing and smaller fights all over FW space can ofcourse still occur just as easily, but if you're looking for a fight, you'll be sure you'll also do some finding. So why aren't people doing this? Why are systems like Deven and Abune usually pretty empty? Why scatter all over the place in a disorganised fashion, hoping to find a cool fight at random? What's stopping us from getting more organised?
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.03.05 23:38:00 - [2] Supplies are probably the main reason. Without knowing the specific layout, I am willing to bet that the current hotspots are closer to the shopping malls than the bottlenecks. Another reason could be that bottlenecks today usually means regional gates .. if you have tried fighting on those you will never try again. Decloak ranges vary greatly, largest distance I have seen was 75km .. that's a lot. If you know what you are doing, you don't need the bottlenecks to get fights .. find a nice major site .. accidentally announce it in local somewhere and enjoy some lag-free small gang carnage.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.06 02:48:00 - [3] Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. -----------
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.03.06 05:42:00 - [4] Edited by: Raimo on 06/03/2009 05:42:31 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. What a ree-tard. ---
Lord Zekk Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.03.06 06:25:00 - [5] Merin a lot of the time you know what you're talking about, but in this instance you do not.
Serapo Petrotestes Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.03.06 10:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. Well yes, I suck. But I bet I am having more fun than you. And to the OP, in small gangs hunting for targets is part of the fun.
Aynen	Posted - 2009.03.06 11:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Serapo Petrotestes Originally by: Merin Ryskin Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. Well yes, I suck. But I bet I am having more fun than you. And to the OP, in small gangs hunting for targets is part of the fun. The ability to hunt in small gangs outside of bottleneck systems (or inside them) wouldn't stop. Concentrated fighting would however improve the likeliness that you can find what you're looking for.
paddytehpyro Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.03.06 12:38:00 - [8] The main thing is, with the bigger fleets, everyone avoids you. Many times have I been in a 30+ man fleet and had no more than a thorax kill in 3 hours. I dont know if this is the same for the caldari folks. My fellow militia members seem to be able to raise 30 man fleets in moments at the mere hint of an enemy blob but this hasnt always been the case. With nothing really to defend/attack there is no insentive to engage a big fleet if you're not sure of the outcome.
Doctor Mabuse	Posted - 2009.03.06 12:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Serapo Petrotestes Originally by: Merin Ryskin Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. Well yes, I suck. But I bet I am having more fun than you. And to the OP, in small gangs hunting for targets is part of the fun. ah, see? You've hit the nail on the head there. Merin doesn't have fun, check out his posts, its all about 'efficiency', 'jobs' and 'tasks'. The whole concept that people may fly different ships, use crazy set-ups or mad tactics purely for fun and entertainment is completely beyond him... ------------------------------------ Who's trip-trapping on my bridge?
Chris Fierce Caldari NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.03.06 13:01:00 - [10] Its a major effort for us in the Caldari to get a 20/30 man fleet togather atm, maybe due to the lag or some other reason. Even when we do, the fleet is made up of 3 year old toons flying Merlins --------------------------- I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus and won a Hookbill.
Pimpertron	Posted - 2009.03.06 16:50:00 - [11] What use are large fleets in FW other than bunker busting?
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.06 19:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. Actually many of them are better than you in most respects.
Elise E	Posted - 2009.03.06 19:59:00 - [13] Just ignore trolls like Merin who are all talk no action.
chatgris	Posted - 2009.03.06 20:52:00 - [14] Edited by: chatgris on 06/03/2009 20:52:19 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. I believe Merin is bitter due to this... http://quafeultra.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=109229 You were calling us pathetic in local, but what do you expect us to do if you bring a shiny ship like that into heyd, flashing red and all.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.03.06 20:53:00 - [15] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 06/03/2009 20:57:37 Originally by: chatgris Edited by: chatgris on 06/03/2009 20:52:19 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. I believe Merin is bitter due to this... http://quafeultra.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=109229 You were calling us pathetic in local, but what do you expect us to do if you bring a shiny ship like that into heyd, flashing red and all. LOL If this could be the homepage of the internet, I would make it so. (ps: just to **** you off, it was my corp that neuted your ass. You ever say anything to me about "cap" and "sustainable tank" again and I'll reference this killmail.) www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.06 21:57:00 - [16] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 06/03/2009 21:59:40 Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 06/03/2009 20:57:37 Originally by: chatgris Edited by: chatgris on 06/03/2009 20:52:19 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. I believe Merin is bitter due to this... http://quafeultra.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=109229 You were calling us pathetic in local, but what do you expect us to do if you bring a shiny ship like that into heyd, flashing red and all. LOL If this could be the homepage of the internet, I would make it so. (ps: just to ** you off, it was my corp that neuted your ass. You ever say anything to me about "cap" and "sustainable tank" again and I'll reference this killmail.) Yes, you're right, that has something to do with it, but I've had (and posted) that opinion of FW for quite a while now. That little fight was just the latest hilarious proof of just how much FW players suck. At 5v1 odds, the FW gang couldn't even break passive regen on a buffer tanked cruiser, and had to call in another 5-10 more ships (hilariously, half of their backup ended up 80km away, because they're too stupid to use the "warp to gang member" feature) just to slowly do enough dps to kill me. And despite all that, they still** lost a Taranis because nobody could figure out that a frigate gang probably wants to kill the Warrior IIs. Oh, and as for cap? I died with plenty of cap remaining, thanks to this wonderful thing called a cap booster. If your Pilgrim pilot was neuting me, he was doing a pretty pathetic job of it. As for FW in general, I rest my case: Its a major effort for us in the Caldari to get a 20/30 man fleet togather atm, maybe due to the lag or some other reason. Even when we do, the fleet is made up of 3 year old toons flying Merlins -----------
chatgris	Posted - 2009.03.06 22:06:00 - [17] Edited by: chatgris on 06/03/2009 22:08:28 Edited by: chatgris on 06/03/2009 22:07:05 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Yes, you're right, that has something to do with it, but I've had (and posted) that opinion of FW for quite a while now. That little fight was just the latest hilarious proof of just how much FW players suck. At 5v1 odds, the FW gang couldn't even break passive regen on a buffer tanked cruiser, and had to call in another 5-10 more ships (hilariously, half of their backup ended up 80km away, because they're too stupid to use the "warp to gang member" feature) just to slowly do enough dps to kill me. And despite all that, they *still* lost a Taranis because nobody could figure out that a frigate gang probably wants to kill the Warrior IIs. I'd just like to point out, we were two separate gangs. WOLFY had a fleet up, and had already tackled you, then my fleet just happenned to stumble across you and join in. No coordination involved :) Originally by: Merin Ryskin As for FW in general, I rest my case: Its a major effort for us in the Caldari to get a 20/30 man fleet togather atm, maybe due to the lag or some other reason. Even when we do, the fleet is made up of 3 year old toons flying Merlins That's the awesome part of it! You can fly frigates, and they are useful. And cheap. Cheap means we get to pew pew all day long. And when the other side also flies frigates, there is much fun to be had. Also, the one month noobs can actually compete with the 3 year old vets if we are all in frigates. (maybe not 1v1, but in a gang. A few more months and the noobs can have a reasonable chance against a vet 1v1 sp wise). tbh, I've only been pvping for a month. I'm doing pretty well in fw. Is this cause the caldari really suck and I just suck less? I don't think so, but I really don't know. Do I care? Not really, it's hella fun :D
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.06 23:14:00 - [18] Originally by: chatgris I'd just like to point out, we were two separate gangs. WOLFY had a fleet up, and had already tackled you, then my fleet just happenned to stumble across you and join in. No coordination involved :) And this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. *Why* were you in two separate gangs? Even if for some reason you want to split your forces, you still keep them all in the same gang and on the same voice chat, just in case you need to bring them back together. FW is a disorganized mob, not a proper fleet. Quote: That's the awesome part of it! You can fly frigates, and they are useful. And cheap. Cheap means we get to pew pew all day long. And when the other side also flies frigates, there is much fun to be had. Also, the one month noobs can actually compete with the 3 year old vets if we are all in frigates. (maybe not 1v1, but in a gang. A few more months and the noobs can have a reasonable chance against a vet 1v1 sp wise). And guess what happens when your frigate gang goes up against a proper fleet of equal numbers: it's a massacre. The only reason your blob of T1 frigates every kills anything is because the lack of motivation for skilled players to join FW means that you're fighting people who are equally incompetent. Quote: tbh, I've only been pvping for a month. I'm doing pretty well in fw. Is this cause the caldari really suck and I just suck less? I don't think so, but I really don't know. Do I care? Not really, it's hella fun :D The Caldari do suck. If not for their hilarious incompetence at using the best fleet ships in the game, CCP would have had to run an emergency downtime "event" just to keep the Gallente from losing every single system and every single battle. -----------
chatgris	Posted - 2009.03.06 23:53:00 - [19] Edited by: chatgris on 06/03/2009 23:55:37 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: chatgris I'd just like to point out, we were two separate gangs. WOLFY had a fleet up, and had already tackled you, then my fleet just happenned to stumble across you and join in. No coordination involved :) And this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. *Why* were you in two separate gangs? Even if for some reason you want to split your forces, you still keep them all in the same gang and on the same voice chat, just in case you need to bring them back together. FW is a disorganized mob, not a proper fleet. A lot of reasons Fun - Small gang warfare! Spies, a lot of corps prefer flying with those they trust When you mentioned getting together a fleet of 20/30 people, that is considered a blob in fw. In fact, that would probably lead to mass desyncs and lots of posts on the forums whining about lag. Plexes - plexes spawn across the systems, some of them as short as ten minutes with specific ship size restrictions. Fw is setup to discourage the blob, since lots of small gangs can accomplish more than one big gang. I agree though, it is a disorganized mob. More correctly, I would call it a disorganized mob of sometimes organized ships :) Originally by: Merin Ryskin Quote: That's the awesome part of it! You can fly frigates, and they are useful. And cheap. Cheap means we get to pew pew all day long. And when the other side also flies frigates, there is much fun to be had. Also, the one month noobs can actually compete with the 3 year old vets if we are all in frigates. (maybe not 1v1, but in a gang. A few more months and the noobs can have a reasonable chance against a vet 1v1 sp wise). And guess what happens when your frigate gang goes up against a proper fleet of equal numbers: it's a massacre. The only reason your blob of T1 frigates every kills anything is because the lack of motivation for skilled players to join FW means that you're fighting people who are equally incompetent. If we come up against that, we up our ship types. But, you are missing the point. We can all have fun for cheap! That translates into less time running level 4's. Not to mention that lots of plexes we stumble across only last for 10 minutes, and have ship type restrictions. That encourages the small gangs flying around in small ships, getting pvp against others in the same types of ships. If we all flew around in one big blob, the other side would just run, and we wouldn't get any fights. If both sides just blobbed up, we'd just be back to 0.0 combat. Many people actually ship down and small in smaller gangs to precisely get fights that the enemy would otherwise just run away from due to being outnumbered, or fear of lag. Originally by: Merin Ryskin Quote: tbh, I've only been pvping for a month. I'm doing pretty well in fw. Is this cause the caldari really suck and I just suck less? I don't think so, but I really don't know. Do I care? Not really, it's hella fun :D The Caldari do suck. If not for their hilarious incompetence at using the best fleet ships in the game, CCP would have had to run an emergency downtime "event" just to keep the Gallente from losing every single system and every single battle. The gal militia uses caldari ships too :) Anyways, fw is different. Unlike 0.0, we don't really lose anything by running away, so if the fight is way against us (e.g. your organized fleet comes in to our t1 frigates), we just scatter and we may go get bigger ships, or you don't get a fight and we go somewhere else, find a different plex and a different group of people to pew pew with.
iudex Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.03.07 00:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Merin Ryskin ... As for FW in general, I rest my case: Its a major effort for us in the Caldari to get a 20/30 man fleet togather atm, maybe due to the lag or some other reason. Even when we do, the fleet is made up of 3 year old toons flying Merlins You have obviously no clue of what we are doing. An hour ago we had a nice battle against pirates in Tama for example, our FC did a good job with baiting them and here is a part of the result: -> Killmail 1 -> Killmail 2 -> Killmail 3 -> Killmail 4 etc. That are just a few examples that prove you wrong. You can also check my (or that of other pilots involved) lossmails on that board - are that Merlins ? Get your facts straigt before insulting others. Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.81 // Angel Cartel +7.60 // Minmatar Republic -8.68 // Gallente Federation -9.88
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.03.07 00:28:00 - [21] Originally by: iudex Get your facts straigt before insulting others. That's not possible for Merin. 1) He can't get facts because he does not investigate and 2) Anything less than an insult is not valid for posting on internet forums to him. :\ www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com
Chris Fierce Caldari NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.03.07 01:49:00 - [22] Originally by: Merin Ryskin As for FW in general, I rest my case: Its a major effort for us in the Caldari to get a 20/30 man fleet togather atm, maybe due to the lag or some other reason. Even when we do, the fleet is made up of 3 year old toons flying Merlins Irony is wasted on the stupid. --------------------------- I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus and won a Hookbill.
Hobgoblin ll	Posted - 2009.03.07 01:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Chris Fierce Originally by: Merin Ryskin As for FW in general, I rest my case: Its a major effort for us in the Caldari to get a 20/30 man fleet togather atm, maybe due to the lag or some other reason. Even when we do, the fleet is made up of 3 year old toons flying Merlins Irony is wasted on the stupid. Irony you say ? Read her other posts. The sad thing is that Merin is serious about that.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.03.07 02:39:00 - [24] The real irony is a Stealth Bomber doing top damage on a Merin lossmail.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.03.07 05:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Gartel Reiman The real irony is a Stealth Bomber doing top damage on a Merin lossmail. hahaha, oh wow __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Serapo Petrotestes Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.03.07 10:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: chatgris I'd just like to point out, we were two separate gangs. WOLFY had a fleet up, and had already tackled you, then my fleet just happenned to stumble across you and join in. No coordination involved :) And this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. *Why* were you in two separate gangs? Even if for some reason you want to split your forces, you still keep them all in the same gang and on the same voice chat, just in case you need to bring them back together. FW is a disorganized mob, not a proper fleet. That is exactly the point. Militias are largely disorganized and some seriously funny fits or desperately idiotic things happen. That is part of the lulz. You just join in the mess and have fun, without worrying about stiff butts with their heads so far up their own rears that they never see the sun and joy of casual wild ops. And you can have small organized fleets plowing through the mess. Which in turn can run into well organized pirate ops. Double fun.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.03.07 21:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Serapo Petrotestes That is exactly the point. Militias are largely disorganized and some seriously funny fits or desperately idiotic things happen. That is part of the lulz. You just join in the mess and have fun, without worrying about stiff butts with their heads so far up their own rears that they never see the sun and joy of casual wild ops. And you can have small organized fleets plowing through the mess. Which in turn can run into well organized pirate ops. Double fun. I love how the subject has turned from "FW players don't suck!" to "FW players suck, but we like it this way!". Keep telling yourselves that... -----------
LegendInMyOwnMind	Posted - 2009.03.07 22:17:00 - [28] Originally by: chatgris Edited by: chatgris on 06/03/2009 20:52:19 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Repeat after me: FW players suck. Expecting good tactics from a bunch of hilariously incompetent carebears is pure wishful thinking. I believe Merin is bitter due to this... http://quafeultra.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=109229 You were calling us pathetic in local, but what do you expect us to do if you bring a shiny ship like that into heyd, flashing red and all. So Merin says that FW is filled with abunch of incompetent carebears, and your defense is to link a kill where you outnumber him 11-1, with some t2 ships, and STILL manage to lose someone? You pretty much fail at internet spaceships.
Draco Rosso	Posted - 2009.03.07 22:50:00 - [29] I encourage all FW pilots to link their Merin Kill mails to this thread.
Beltantis Torrence Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.08 00:14:00 - [30] Camping is boring. Roaming is fun. And besides, who roams around in groups larger than 3 without having a forward scout?

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