| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
   |
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:34:00 -
[1]
I imagine many of you are in the same boat I am. I've been with the game 4 years and I love every aspect of it. Recently exploration/ invention/ T2 production have been really enjoyable and profitable in the game... with the exception of trying to get access to high end moons. I love the fact that Eve is hard and cruel.. I don't want some of the most valuable commodities in the game to be EASY to get. I also don't want them to be IMPOSSIBLE to get either. Because moons are static and unchanging, the big alliances can lock them down- anyone who has tried to find even a CRAPPY moon can tell you this is true. This makes it impossible for small or mid sized corps to get access to those resources.
This used to be true of high end minerals as well- I rejoiced when they introduced exploration belts. It is still incredibly risky to mine a large ark/ bist/ mercoxit belt in 0.0 without sov protecting you.. but you CAN do it. You have to fight your way there and back, and deal with massive logistical issues and risk very expensive ships in hostile space.. but hell, that's Eve and that's why we love the game! And when you succeed as a small corp and end up with 100k megacyte and zyd and 5k morphite in the bank.. you really get to enjoy the risk/ reward that Eve offers.
When I first read about w-space the first and only thing I thought was "thank god, there will finally be some dyspro moons that the big alliances won't be able to lock down." The changing access points and logistcal difficulties would make moon mining there difficult for anyone, and likely impossible to keep up permanently. But a ballsy and LUCKY expedition might be able to mine enough high end moon materials to really bolster component production for a while.
I guess you could tell me to lump it and get with a big alliance if I want to be vertically integrated with T2 production. Done that. been there.. and it made Eve very unenjoyable for me. I play the game because I want to live the virtual life of Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds... not to work for Weyland-Yutani or Darth Vader and the Empire.
The alchemy thing was a weak fix for this issue... the moons you need for the process are still static and can still be locked down. I was really hoping w-space moons would fix this problem. Oh well.
There must be some possible solution to this problem.. wouldn't it be great if through some (heinously expensive and skill intensive) process you could research existing moons to find previously unknown deposits of moon minerals? Even if they were in limited supplies.. it would sort of be like the T2 BPCs you get from invention compared to having the BPO. At least it would be something.
I'll keep playing Eve regardless. I love this game and there is nothing even remotely as good on the planet, so no you can't have my stuff. I don't mind having goals in game that are DAMN NEAR impossible but I don't like when when things are effectively IMPOSSIBLE like trying to mine a good moon without selling your soul to some mega alliance.
|
Totally Slick
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:36:00 -
[2]
i too would like to have a personal r64 moon |
AC Resonance
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:38:00 -
[3]
posting in another wall-of-text soapbox / monolog thread.
|
Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:38:00 -
[4]
Boys like big moons!
---------------------------------------
I support log offs.
There's just something about denying free electrons to my computer that appeals to my need for control.
|
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:39:00 -
[5]
There's a counter argument to why it's might be necessary to keep high-end moons from hisec: defensibility.
The chance of being able to lock down a nice moon, and KEEP it ... might be too high.
Having a monopoly on a moon in an out of the way place that can't be taken from you? That might be too much. I say might alot, though. There's arguments here. But I can only imagine how much worse an organization like BoB would have been, if they had a dyspro moon or two locked away in w-space.
The random nature of wormholes and connections, combined with the absolute limitations of the size of wormholes, and the difficulty to amass capital class ships in enough numbers, means the defenders of these moons (especially when backed with in-system ships and defenses) are going to have a much easier time keeping them.
It's probably more to do with keeping players from having multi-billion isk profit faucets hidden away. Keep the rare super moons in plain sight and open for competition, at least.
Just one argument, that's all.
|
Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:44:00 -
[6]
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
|
Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation
Apotheosis of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:44:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Enkindu
I always think in terms of my personal gain as opposed to overall game dynamics, mechanics, and consistency.
When it comes to determining what is right or wrong I think only of my own wallet and not what will or will not actually work in the game itself.
Fixed this for you. 
_______________________________________________
[...a lion lurking in the plain] |
Kirra Liu
Echelon Holdings
Echelon.
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kirra Liu on 09/03/2009 16:46:08
What a load of rubbish, if you can't find a decent moon then you are not looking hard enough, only yesterday I was probing some moons and the first one I probed had Silicates available. So this is a non-issue.
e: Spelt probing as proving
|
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
Besides the Goon guy? The rest of us are either in one man corps, newb corps, or small time establishments. Funny ...
|
Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:50:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Originally by: Enkindu
I always think in terms of my personal gain as opposed to overall game dynamics, mechanics, and consistency.
When it comes to determining what is right or wrong I think only of my own wallet and not what will or will not actually work in the game itself.
Fixed this for you.
So you think it was bad for Eve in general when they introduced invention and suddenly the BPO cartels could no longer charge 75 mil for covert ops cloaks and 500 mil for hulks? Man, this is a fun forum to post on.. people are just as aggressive here as they are in the game! Woot! Bring it on!
|
|
|
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Noir.
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
A wall of text is generally just a fat load of words with no structuring or paragraphs, yours was fine, the person who said it was a wall of text doesn't know what one is. :)
|
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
A wall of text is generally just a fat load of words with no structuring or paragraphs, yours was fine, the person who said it was a wall of text doesn't know what one is. :)
Well ... if you usually don't read more than the back of the latest XBox 360 game, than the Op could technically be considered a wall of text, hahahah ...
|
Kirra Liu
Echelon Holdings
Echelon.
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Enkindu
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Originally by: Enkindu
I always think in terms of my personal gain as opposed to overall game dynamics, mechanics, and consistency.
When it comes to determining what is right or wrong I think only of my own wallet and not what will or will not actually work in the game itself.
Fixed this for you.
So you think it was bad for Eve in general when they introduced invention and suddenly the BPO cartels could no longer charge 75 mil for covert ops cloaks and 500 mil for hulks? Man, this is a fun forum to post on.. people are just as aggressive here as they are in the game! Woot! Bring it on!
It's funny because I think this thread would be more suited to the suggestions section of forums or the science & industry section. Also you say that people are just aggressive here, I don't get your point as I have not seen anyone say "GTFO", "I'm gonna make you scream *****" or anything else along those lines. If you post on open forums then expect people to disagree with you, we may not agree / like what you say.
So please listen to peoples views if you are wishing to also express your on and if you emo-rage-quit can I have your stuff when this is all over?
|
Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Enkindu
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
It's funny how you're trying to counter the people instead of the argument.
|
Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation
Apotheosis of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:01:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Mithos Victus on 09/03/2009 17:04:07
Originally by: Enkindu
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Originally by: Enkindu
I always think in terms of my personal gain as opposed to overall game dynamics, mechanics, and consistency.
When it comes to determining what is right or wrong I think only of my own wallet and not what will or will not actually work in the game itself.
Fixed this for you.
So you think it was bad for Eve in general when they introduced invention and suddenly the BPO cartels could no longer charge 75 mil for covert ops cloaks and 500 mil for hulks? Man, this is a fun forum to post on.. people are just as aggressive here as they are in the game! Woot! Bring it on!
Your original premise does not stand up logically and is based on faulty assumptions. Had you taken the time to fully think through your own scenario maybe we would not be having this boring discussion of yet another person who has the right idea with the wrong application.
Wormhole space adds the unknown back into a stale game mechanic where the major power blocs control 99% of 0.0 yet you missed the point.
A wormhole is to instability as POS is to stability.
Pretty easy really. You have it half right. You are right that there needs to be more to EVE than Alliance power blocs controlling 0.0 but wrong that the solution is taking something away (or adding, rather) from them alone rather than from the game mechanic itself.
Alliances have just as much right to profit ingame from their sheer numbers, power, and logistical control over 0.0 as you do from exploiting resources in wormholes where it is every gang for themselves within the scope of the fact that wormholes are unstable, unpredictable, and do not lend themselves to permanent residence which is why Alliance power blocs will likely not compete over them or try to dominate them individually.
Easy.
_______________________________________________
[...a lion lurking in the plain] |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/03/2009 17:03:49
Quote:
When I first read about w-space the first and only thing I thought was "thank god, there will finally be some dyspro moons that the big alliances won't be able to lock down."
This is an astonishingly naive line of thought.
Yeah, so running a wormspace mining POS would be logistically challenging. So who has the pilots, resources and desire to surmount the logistical barriers, to systematically explore and claim wormspace moons and benefit from the laughably broken, virtually invincible free ISK fountains? And who has the resources to take down a mining POS in wormspace that they don't like?
Is it some disorganised two-bit corp without access to much of the map? Or is it an organised spaceholding alliance with its financial and human resources?
|
Sawirek
Caldari
BLACK BARONS
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:03:00 -
[17]
W-Space is supposed to belong to the sleepers not players
|
AC Resonance
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
No its a wall of text because you rant on and on without offering any solutions and then close by stamping your feet frothing at the mouth and telling your mum your not playing because they are all ****y pants at that party.
Understand?
If you want to critise fine, do it in the right forum and offer solutions. Just don't write a ranty wall of text and expect a favourable reaction. You should be happy anyone responded at all, its not like you left any room for debate.
Monologging, is for blogs, this is a discussion forum.
/me goes back to reading the cat in the hat.
*giggle*
|
Tanhar
Gallente
Tides of Silence
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kirra Liu
Edited by: Kirra Liu on 09/03/2009 16:46:08
What a load of rubbish, if you can't find a decent moon then you are not looking hard enough, only yesterday I was probing some moons and the first one I probed had Silicates available. So this is a non-issue.
Aren't you in wrong thread ? Silicates, oh my....
As for the op, man... I love when half of EVE still cries about unfairness of T2 lottery, but fiercely fights for new lottery to be introduced.
What I love even more, that is when people are so sure that THIS time it will be THEY, who will be the winner
|
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:07:00 -
[20]
It's the random value. Once you find a system in wormhole space, it's infinitely easier to stay in that system and find your way back, than it is for someone outside to track you down and find a doorway to that system.
You, inside of w-space, can locate and traverse all the doorways. You're position is fixed, and if planned properly (by leaving at least one active player inside the space at all times), you and your corp should ALWAYS be able to get back. You might have to enter through heimatar one day and providence the next, but it's possible.
Meanwhile, any enemies of yours will have 2500 some odd k-space systems to search through in order to find the randomized possible entrance to your dominion.
|
|
|
W3370Pi4
Caldari
Lords Of Kaos
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:07:00 -
[21]
well you can still bring a faction pos with 3 month of fuel and farm sleepers and haul back till you get a w-hole to empire.
_______
Join the "Legit Trading" Channel *Monitored WTB*WTA*WTT*WTS*Contracts*Trade ADs** Scam free channel* |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Noir.
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
A wall of text is generally just a fat load of words with no structuring or paragraphs, yours was fine, the person who said it was a wall of text doesn't know what one is. :)
Well ... if you usually don't read more than the back of the latest XBox 360 game, than the Op could technically be considered a wall of text, hahahah ...
Hehe that is true, glad I read lots of books weekly. Although it isn't a real wall of text like #2 here.
|
Primnproper
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: AC Resonance
posting in another wall-of-text soapbox / monolog thread.
Highlighting another member of the eve forum comunity who seems proud that he can't even read a well spaced, properly set out piece of text if its more than 4 lines long.
...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan
I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
|
Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
Nah, it's not a wall of text. If there were no paragraph breaks, it'd be a wall of text, but a medium-long post in and of itself does not qualify as a wall of text...unless the reader is reading-challenged or just lazy.
|
Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: AC Resonance
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
No its a wall of text because you rant on and on without offering any solutions and then close by stamping your feet frothing at the mouth and telling your mum your not playing because they are all ****y pants at that party.
Understand?
If you want to critise fine, do it in the right forum and offer solutions. Just don't write a ranty wall of text and expect a favourable reaction. You should be happy anyone responded at all, its not like you left any room for debate.
Monologging, is for blogs, this is a discussion forum.
/me goes back to reading the cat in the hat.
*giggle*
Giggle indeed. Since my wall of text was too dense for you to get through.. let me point out that I clearly stated that I love the game and I'd keep playing no matter what.. and I DID offer an idea for a solution. Presentation of an idea within a forum to get feedback from my peers.. how is that a monologue? In the future you may want to actually read to the posts you respond to.. otherwise you look, well, kinda "challenged."
To those of you that suggested the moons were left out of w-space to keep them from becoming additional isk fountains for the big alliances, you may be right. I know CCP works hard to keep the game balanced and to date I think they've done a damned good job. It had been my hope that the logistical difficulties of moon mining in w-space would be a put off to the alliances, and would represent an acceptable challenge to the smaller organizations without access to k-space high end moons- much the way a high end exploration belt in NPC space will be virtually ignored by big alliances with access to good trusec belts (but might be a huge score for a small corp).
I had seen the randomness of access to w-space as possibly allowing for windows of activity by smaller, self-reliant expeditionary fleets that would not be possible in regular space.
Thanks for the good responses, and as for the "pompous twit" replies, keep them coming too.. laughter is good for the soul : )
|
Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:54:00 -
[26]
A wall of text is a lot of words describing something that could take 80% or more less words for the same effect. Using the enter key once in a while does not make it any less of a wall of text.
I can rewrite the op, tl;dr into the following.
I have been playing eve a long time. I think there should be more ways than moon mining using essentially static structures to gain the resources needed for t2 prodution, even in small amounts. Perhaps a skill intensive way to mine small amounts of it off of unclaimed moons. Alchemy does not count because it still requires moon mining (using a static POS). Does anyone have any ideas?
The op really doesn't go into any solution, but posts a lot of words that basically amounts to the above. Thus it is a wall of text.
--
|
Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 18:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
A wall of text is a lot of words describing something that could take 80% or more less words for the same effect. Using the enter key once in a while does not make it any less of a wall of text.
I can rewrite the op, tl;dr into the following.
I have been playing eve a long time. I think there should be more ways than moon mining using essentially static structures to gain the resources needed for t2 prodution, even in small amounts. Perhaps a skill intensive way to mine small amounts of it off of unclaimed moons. Alchemy does not count because it still requires moon mining (using a static POS). Does anyone have any ideas?
The op really doesn't go into any solution, but posts a lot of words that basically amounts to the above. Thus it is a wall of text.
Yeah, but you left yourself open to spending 20 gazillion posts trying to explain what you could have said in one.
Course, the people who won't read and understand what he wrote, wouldn't really read and understand the shortened version, either. Lacking the ability to comprehend the topic and words within is not limited to 300 word essays. If a poster can't figure it out, they're going to fail no matter how few words there are.
|
Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 18:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
A wall of text is a lot of words describing something that could take 80% or more less words for the same effect. Using the enter key once in a while does not make it any less of a wall of text.
I can rewrite the op, tl;dr into the following.
I have been playing eve a long time. I think there should be more ways than moon mining using essentially static structures to gain the resources needed for t2 prodution, even in small amounts. Perhaps a skill intensive way to mine small amounts of it off of unclaimed moons. Alchemy does not count because it still requires moon mining (using a static POS). Does anyone have any ideas?
The op really doesn't go into any solution, but posts a lot of words that basically amounts to the above. Thus it is a wall of text.
Based on this definition, I'll gladly accept the wall of text label. During my post grad work I was reading a book every 2 days for a while. I much prefer well framed ideas that tell me something about context and the writer's state of mind to lazy shorthand. I suppose if reading comprehension is a problem for some people you can make allowances- but I think your "synopsis" is far less compelling without contextual elements. Maybe it's a generational thing- I notice most folks 15-20 years younger than I am are lazy as hell about both reading and writing.
|
Thernys
Caldari
Dark Force Recon
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 18:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/03/2009 17:03:49
Quote:
When I first read about w-space the first and only thing I thought was "thank god, there will finally be some dyspro moons that the big alliances won't be able to lock down."
This is an astonishingly naive line of thought.
Yeah, so running a wormspace mining POS would be logistically challenging. So who has the pilots, resources and desire to surmount the logistical barriers, to systematically explore and claim wormspace moons and benefit from the laughably broken, virtually invincible free ISK fountains? And who has the resources to take down a mining POS in wormspace that they don't like?
Is it some disorganised two-bit corp without access to much of the map? Or is it an organised spaceholding alliance with its financial and human resources?
Beat me to it. If you think you can hold a moon in W-space, you can be pretty sure a nullsec megacorp can bring themselves to do it.
|
Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
|
Posted - 2009.03.09 18:20:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Thernys
Beat me to it. If you think you can hold a moon in W-space, you can be pretty sure a nullsec megacorp can bring themselves to do it.
Actually it was my hope that NO ONE could hold a moon indefinitely, but that there might be windows of opportunity to mine the moons for smaller self-contained fleets.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |