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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:34:00 -
[1]
I imagine many of you are in the same boat I am. I've been with the game 4 years and I love every aspect of it. Recently exploration/ invention/ T2 production have been really enjoyable and profitable in the game... with the exception of trying to get access to high end moons. I love the fact that Eve is hard and cruel.. I don't want some of the most valuable commodities in the game to be EASY to get. I also don't want them to be IMPOSSIBLE to get either. Because moons are static and unchanging, the big alliances can lock them down- anyone who has tried to find even a CRAPPY moon can tell you this is true. This makes it impossible for small or mid sized corps to get access to those resources.
This used to be true of high end minerals as well- I rejoiced when they introduced exploration belts. It is still incredibly risky to mine a large ark/ bist/ mercoxit belt in 0.0 without sov protecting you.. but you CAN do it. You have to fight your way there and back, and deal with massive logistical issues and risk very expensive ships in hostile space.. but hell, that's Eve and that's why we love the game! And when you succeed as a small corp and end up with 100k megacyte and zyd and 5k morphite in the bank.. you really get to enjoy the risk/ reward that Eve offers.
When I first read about w-space the first and only thing I thought was "thank god, there will finally be some dyspro moons that the big alliances won't be able to lock down." The changing access points and logistcal difficulties would make moon mining there difficult for anyone, and likely impossible to keep up permanently. But a ballsy and LUCKY expedition might be able to mine enough high end moon materials to really bolster component production for a while.
I guess you could tell me to lump it and get with a big alliance if I want to be vertically integrated with T2 production. Done that. been there.. and it made Eve very unenjoyable for me. I play the game because I want to live the virtual life of Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds... not to work for Weyland-Yutani or Darth Vader and the Empire.
The alchemy thing was a weak fix for this issue... the moons you need for the process are still static and can still be locked down. I was really hoping w-space moons would fix this problem. Oh well.
There must be some possible solution to this problem.. wouldn't it be great if through some (heinously expensive and skill intensive) process you could research existing moons to find previously unknown deposits of moon minerals? Even if they were in limited supplies.. it would sort of be like the T2 BPCs you get from invention compared to having the BPO. At least it would be something.
I'll keep playing Eve regardless. I love this game and there is nothing even remotely as good on the planet, so no you can't have my stuff. I don't mind having goals in game that are DAMN NEAR impossible but I don't like when when things are effectively IMPOSSIBLE like trying to mine a good moon without selling your soul to some mega alliance.
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Totally Slick
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:36:00 -
[2]
i too would like to have a personal r64 moon |
AC Resonance
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:38:00 -
[3]
posting in another wall-of-text soapbox / monolog thread.
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Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:38:00 -
[4]
Boys like big moons!
---------------------------------------
I support log offs.
There's just something about denying free electrons to my computer that appeals to my need for control.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:39:00 -
[5]
There's a counter argument to why it's might be necessary to keep high-end moons from hisec: defensibility.
The chance of being able to lock down a nice moon, and KEEP it ... might be too high.
Having a monopoly on a moon in an out of the way place that can't be taken from you? That might be too much. I say might alot, though. There's arguments here. But I can only imagine how much worse an organization like BoB would have been, if they had a dyspro moon or two locked away in w-space.
The random nature of wormholes and connections, combined with the absolute limitations of the size of wormholes, and the difficulty to amass capital class ships in enough numbers, means the defenders of these moons (especially when backed with in-system ships and defenses) are going to have a much easier time keeping them.
It's probably more to do with keeping players from having multi-billion isk profit faucets hidden away. Keep the rare super moons in plain sight and open for competition, at least.
Just one argument, that's all.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:44:00 -
[6]
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
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Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:44:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Enkindu
I always think in terms of my personal gain as opposed to overall game dynamics, mechanics, and consistency.
When it comes to determining what is right or wrong I think only of my own wallet and not what will or will not actually work in the game itself.
Fixed this for you. 
_______________________________________________
[...a lion lurking in the plain] |
Kirra Liu
Echelon Holdings
Echelon.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kirra Liu on 09/03/2009 16:46:08
What a load of rubbish, if you can't find a decent moon then you are not looking hard enough, only yesterday I was probing some moons and the first one I probed had Silicates available. So this is a non-issue.
e: Spelt probing as proving
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
Besides the Goon guy? The rest of us are either in one man corps, newb corps, or small time establishments. Funny ...
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:50:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Originally by: Enkindu
I always think in terms of my personal gain as opposed to overall game dynamics, mechanics, and consistency.
When it comes to determining what is right or wrong I think only of my own wallet and not what will or will not actually work in the game itself.
Fixed this for you.
So you think it was bad for Eve in general when they introduced invention and suddenly the BPO cartels could no longer charge 75 mil for covert ops cloaks and 500 mil for hulks? Man, this is a fun forum to post on.. people are just as aggressive here as they are in the game! Woot! Bring it on!
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
A wall of text is generally just a fat load of words with no structuring or paragraphs, yours was fine, the person who said it was a wall of text doesn't know what one is. :)
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
A wall of text is generally just a fat load of words with no structuring or paragraphs, yours was fine, the person who said it was a wall of text doesn't know what one is. :)
Well ... if you usually don't read more than the back of the latest XBox 360 game, than the Op could technically be considered a wall of text, hahahah ...
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Kirra Liu
Echelon Holdings
Echelon.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Enkindu
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Originally by: Enkindu
I always think in terms of my personal gain as opposed to overall game dynamics, mechanics, and consistency.
When it comes to determining what is right or wrong I think only of my own wallet and not what will or will not actually work in the game itself.
Fixed this for you.
So you think it was bad for Eve in general when they introduced invention and suddenly the BPO cartels could no longer charge 75 mil for covert ops cloaks and 500 mil for hulks? Man, this is a fun forum to post on.. people are just as aggressive here as they are in the game! Woot! Bring it on!
It's funny because I think this thread would be more suited to the suggestions section of forums or the science & industry section. Also you say that people are just aggressive here, I don't get your point as I have not seen anyone say "GTFO", "I'm gonna make you scream *****" or anything else along those lines. If you post on open forums then expect people to disagree with you, we may not agree / like what you say.
So please listen to peoples views if you are wishing to also express your on and if you emo-rage-quit can I have your stuff when this is all over?
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Dianeces
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Enkindu
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
It's funny how you're trying to counter the people instead of the argument.
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Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation
Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:01:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Mithos Victus on 09/03/2009 17:04:07
Originally by: Enkindu
Originally by: Mithos Victus
Originally by: Enkindu
I always think in terms of my personal gain as opposed to overall game dynamics, mechanics, and consistency.
When it comes to determining what is right or wrong I think only of my own wallet and not what will or will not actually work in the game itself.
Fixed this for you.
So you think it was bad for Eve in general when they introduced invention and suddenly the BPO cartels could no longer charge 75 mil for covert ops cloaks and 500 mil for hulks? Man, this is a fun forum to post on.. people are just as aggressive here as they are in the game! Woot! Bring it on!
Your original premise does not stand up logically and is based on faulty assumptions. Had you taken the time to fully think through your own scenario maybe we would not be having this boring discussion of yet another person who has the right idea with the wrong application.
Wormhole space adds the unknown back into a stale game mechanic where the major power blocs control 99% of 0.0 yet you missed the point.
A wormhole is to instability as POS is to stability.
Pretty easy really. You have it half right. You are right that there needs to be more to EVE than Alliance power blocs controlling 0.0 but wrong that the solution is taking something away (or adding, rather) from them alone rather than from the game mechanic itself.
Alliances have just as much right to profit ingame from their sheer numbers, power, and logistical control over 0.0 as you do from exploiting resources in wormholes where it is every gang for themselves within the scope of the fact that wormholes are unstable, unpredictable, and do not lend themselves to permanent residence which is why Alliance power blocs will likely not compete over them or try to dominate them individually.
Easy.
_______________________________________________
[...a lion lurking in the plain] |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/03/2009 17:03:49
Quote:
When I first read about w-space the first and only thing I thought was "thank god, there will finally be some dyspro moons that the big alliances won't be able to lock down."
This is an astonishingly naive line of thought.
Yeah, so running a wormspace mining POS would be logistically challenging. So who has the pilots, resources and desire to surmount the logistical barriers, to systematically explore and claim wormspace moons and benefit from the laughably broken, virtually invincible free ISK fountains? And who has the resources to take down a mining POS in wormspace that they don't like?
Is it some disorganised two-bit corp without access to much of the map? Or is it an organised spaceholding alliance with its financial and human resources?
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Sawirek
Caldari
BLACK BARONS
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:03:00 -
[17]
W-Space is supposed to belong to the sleepers not players
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AC Resonance
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
No its a wall of text because you rant on and on without offering any solutions and then close by stamping your feet frothing at the mouth and telling your mum your not playing because they are all ****y pants at that party.
Understand?
If you want to critise fine, do it in the right forum and offer solutions. Just don't write a ranty wall of text and expect a favourable reaction. You should be happy anyone responded at all, its not like you left any room for debate.
Monologging, is for blogs, this is a discussion forum.
/me goes back to reading the cat in the hat.
*giggle*
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Tanhar
Gallente
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kirra Liu
Edited by: Kirra Liu on 09/03/2009 16:46:08
What a load of rubbish, if you can't find a decent moon then you are not looking hard enough, only yesterday I was probing some moons and the first one I probed had Silicates available. So this is a non-issue.
Aren't you in wrong thread ? Silicates, oh my....
As for the op, man... I love when half of EVE still cries about unfairness of T2 lottery, but fiercely fights for new lottery to be introduced.
What I love even more, that is when people are so sure that THIS time it will be THEY, who will be the winner
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:07:00 -
[20]
It's the random value. Once you find a system in wormhole space, it's infinitely easier to stay in that system and find your way back, than it is for someone outside to track you down and find a doorway to that system.
You, inside of w-space, can locate and traverse all the doorways. You're position is fixed, and if planned properly (by leaving at least one active player inside the space at all times), you and your corp should ALWAYS be able to get back. You might have to enter through heimatar one day and providence the next, but it's possible.
Meanwhile, any enemies of yours will have 2500 some odd k-space systems to search through in order to find the randomized possible entrance to your dominion.
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W3370Pi4
Caldari
Lords Of Kaos
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:07:00 -
[21]
well you can still bring a faction pos with 3 month of fuel and farm sleepers and haul back till you get a w-hole to empire.
_______
Join the "Legit Trading" Channel *Monitored WTB*WTA*WTT*WTS*Contracts*Trade ADs** Scam free channel* |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
A wall of text is generally just a fat load of words with no structuring or paragraphs, yours was fine, the person who said it was a wall of text doesn't know what one is. :)
Well ... if you usually don't read more than the back of the latest XBox 360 game, than the Op could technically be considered a wall of text, hahahah ...
Hehe that is true, glad I read lots of books weekly. Although it isn't a real wall of text like #2 here.
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: AC Resonance
posting in another wall-of-text soapbox / monolog thread.
Highlighting another member of the eve forum comunity who seems proud that he can't even read a well spaced, properly set out piece of text if its more than 4 lines long.
...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan
I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
Nah, it's not a wall of text. If there were no paragraph breaks, it'd be a wall of text, but a medium-long post in and of itself does not qualify as a wall of text...unless the reader is reading-challenged or just lazy.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: AC Resonance
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
No its a wall of text because you rant on and on without offering any solutions and then close by stamping your feet frothing at the mouth and telling your mum your not playing because they are all ****y pants at that party.
Understand?
If you want to critise fine, do it in the right forum and offer solutions. Just don't write a ranty wall of text and expect a favourable reaction. You should be happy anyone responded at all, its not like you left any room for debate.
Monologging, is for blogs, this is a discussion forum.
/me goes back to reading the cat in the hat.
*giggle*
Giggle indeed. Since my wall of text was too dense for you to get through.. let me point out that I clearly stated that I love the game and I'd keep playing no matter what.. and I DID offer an idea for a solution. Presentation of an idea within a forum to get feedback from my peers.. how is that a monologue? In the future you may want to actually read to the posts you respond to.. otherwise you look, well, kinda "challenged."
To those of you that suggested the moons were left out of w-space to keep them from becoming additional isk fountains for the big alliances, you may be right. I know CCP works hard to keep the game balanced and to date I think they've done a damned good job. It had been my hope that the logistical difficulties of moon mining in w-space would be a put off to the alliances, and would represent an acceptable challenge to the smaller organizations without access to k-space high end moons- much the way a high end exploration belt in NPC space will be virtually ignored by big alliances with access to good trusec belts (but might be a huge score for a small corp).
I had seen the randomness of access to w-space as possibly allowing for windows of activity by smaller, self-reliant expeditionary fleets that would not be possible in regular space.
Thanks for the good responses, and as for the "pompous twit" replies, keep them coming too.. laughter is good for the soul : )
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:54:00 -
[26]
A wall of text is a lot of words describing something that could take 80% or more less words for the same effect. Using the enter key once in a while does not make it any less of a wall of text.
I can rewrite the op, tl;dr into the following.
I have been playing eve a long time. I think there should be more ways than moon mining using essentially static structures to gain the resources needed for t2 prodution, even in small amounts. Perhaps a skill intensive way to mine small amounts of it off of unclaimed moons. Alchemy does not count because it still requires moon mining (using a static POS). Does anyone have any ideas?
The op really doesn't go into any solution, but posts a lot of words that basically amounts to the above. Thus it is a wall of text.
--
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
A wall of text is a lot of words describing something that could take 80% or more less words for the same effect. Using the enter key once in a while does not make it any less of a wall of text.
I can rewrite the op, tl;dr into the following.
I have been playing eve a long time. I think there should be more ways than moon mining using essentially static structures to gain the resources needed for t2 prodution, even in small amounts. Perhaps a skill intensive way to mine small amounts of it off of unclaimed moons. Alchemy does not count because it still requires moon mining (using a static POS). Does anyone have any ideas?
The op really doesn't go into any solution, but posts a lot of words that basically amounts to the above. Thus it is a wall of text.
Yeah, but you left yourself open to spending 20 gazillion posts trying to explain what you could have said in one.
Course, the people who won't read and understand what he wrote, wouldn't really read and understand the shortened version, either. Lacking the ability to comprehend the topic and words within is not limited to 300 word essays. If a poster can't figure it out, they're going to fail no matter how few words there are.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
A wall of text is a lot of words describing something that could take 80% or more less words for the same effect. Using the enter key once in a while does not make it any less of a wall of text.
I can rewrite the op, tl;dr into the following.
I have been playing eve a long time. I think there should be more ways than moon mining using essentially static structures to gain the resources needed for t2 prodution, even in small amounts. Perhaps a skill intensive way to mine small amounts of it off of unclaimed moons. Alchemy does not count because it still requires moon mining (using a static POS). Does anyone have any ideas?
The op really doesn't go into any solution, but posts a lot of words that basically amounts to the above. Thus it is a wall of text.
Based on this definition, I'll gladly accept the wall of text label. During my post grad work I was reading a book every 2 days for a while. I much prefer well framed ideas that tell me something about context and the writer's state of mind to lazy shorthand. I suppose if reading comprehension is a problem for some people you can make allowances- but I think your "synopsis" is far less compelling without contextual elements. Maybe it's a generational thing- I notice most folks 15-20 years younger than I am are lazy as hell about both reading and writing.
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Thernys
Caldari
Dark Force Recon
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/03/2009 17:03:49
Quote:
When I first read about w-space the first and only thing I thought was "thank god, there will finally be some dyspro moons that the big alliances won't be able to lock down."
This is an astonishingly naive line of thought.
Yeah, so running a wormspace mining POS would be logistically challenging. So who has the pilots, resources and desire to surmount the logistical barriers, to systematically explore and claim wormspace moons and benefit from the laughably broken, virtually invincible free ISK fountains? And who has the resources to take down a mining POS in wormspace that they don't like?
Is it some disorganised two-bit corp without access to much of the map? Or is it an organised spaceholding alliance with its financial and human resources?
Beat me to it. If you think you can hold a moon in W-space, you can be pretty sure a nullsec megacorp can bring themselves to do it.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:20:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Thernys
Beat me to it. If you think you can hold a moon in W-space, you can be pretty sure a nullsec megacorp can bring themselves to do it.
Actually it was my hope that NO ONE could hold a moon indefinitely, but that there might be windows of opportunity to mine the moons for smaller self-contained fleets.
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Gunner
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:40:00 -
[31]
I think W-space is in concept made for small alliances and medium sized corps, because of the nature of it.
0.0 alliances are on a daily basis trying to get more space under their control, or at least try to keep what they have. W-Space exploration just does not fit into this, unless you have or make enough alts to do the job.
Once you are in W-Space and **** hits the fan, it's not simple to get back to alliance space to join any ops. That's imo the main reason not many large 0.0 alliances will get involved.
*** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:45:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Gunner
I think W-space is in concept made for small alliances and medium sized corps, because of the nature of it.
0.0 alliances are on a daily basis trying to get more space under their control, or at least try to keep what they have. W-Space exploration just does not fit into this, unless you have or make enough alts to do the job.
Once you are in W-Space and **** hits the fan, it's not simple to get back to alliance space to join any ops. That's imo the main reason not many large 0.0 alliances will get involved.
Glad at least one other person was looking at things like I was : )
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Thernys
Caldari
Dark Force Recon
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:45:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Enkindu
Actually it was my hope that NO ONE could hold a moon indefinitely, but that there might be windows of opportunity to mine the moons for smaller self-contained fleets.
'Indefinitely' is a bad term, as technically the current owners of the moons aren't holding them 'indefinitely' either, you're free to mount up a force and go slap their grubby fingers off the moons.
And I wrote a paragraph here about time investment, logistics nightmares and it all not being worth it in the end, but then I figured you probably already know that.
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OMGJITA
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:02:00 -
[34]
dont take this the wrong way, but lets say you could put a pos down...
what would you do? stay with it untill you had enough moon mins to leave? remember man, there is absolutly no way for you to know were you are gonna pop out in empire when you exit Wspace, and there is NO WAY, you can know you are going to get back to the same place.....
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: OMGJITA
dont take this the wrong way, but lets say you could put a pos down...
what would you do? stay with it untill you had enough moon mins to leave? remember man, there is absolutly no way for you to know were you are gonna pop out in empire when you exit Wspace, and there is NO WAY, you can know you are going to get back to the same place.....
You don't know. But finding you're way out is relatively easy once you locate the wormhole itself. And a w-system can have multiple exits.
So, you and you're corp are exploring, and find a great moon. One or more of your corpies stay in that system, constantly scanning out new exits, relaying those exits to the corp, and you're buddies go through the hassle of flying in. Bunch of haulers shouldn't overload most wormhole masses. One day you enter that system through Heimatar. Two days later, through Lonetrek. But as long as you've got boys on the inside finding those wormholes, you always know where at least ONE entrance is.
You set up shop, and start to mining. Now, just repeat the process. As long as you can get back to k-space, you can arrange either a rendevous with a jump hauler, or a visit to a local station.
The logistics are more complicated, but not really anymore than players had to deal with before cyno's and jump systems. The key, though, is that once you get into the system ... you are always guaranteed a way out.
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OMGJITA
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:13:00 -
[36]
Edited by: OMGJITA on 09/03/2009 19:13:10
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: OMGJITA
dont take this the wrong way, but lets say you could put a pos down...
what would you do? stay with it untill you had enough moon mins to leave? remember man, there is absolutly no way for you to know were you are gonna pop out in empire when you exit Wspace, and there is NO WAY, you can know you are going to get back to the same place.....
You don't know. But finding you're way out is relatively easy once you locate the wormhole itself. And a w-system can have multiple exits.
So, you and you're corp are exploring, and find a great moon. One or more of your corpies stay in that system, constantly scanning out new exits, relaying those exits to the corp, and you're buddies go through the hassle of flying in. Bunch of haulers shouldn't overload most wormhole masses. One day you enter that system through Heimatar. Two days later, through Lonetrek. But as long as you've got boys on the inside finding those wormholes, you always know where at least ONE entrance is.
You set up shop, and start to mining. Now, just repeat the process. As long as you can get back to k-space, you can arrange either a rendevous with a jump hauler, or a visit to a local station.
The logistics are more complicated, but not really anymore than players had to deal with before cyno's and jump systems. The key, though, is that once you get into the system ... you are always guaranteed a way out.
well whos a smart ar5e! ;) lol thanks though man, despite spending a large amount of time doig this on sisi i had not thought of the obvious that you just pointed out ;)
lol /slap. ;)
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:16:00 -
[37]
Originally by: OMGJITA
Edited by: OMGJITA on 09/03/2009 19:13:10
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: OMGJITA
dont take this the wrong way, but lets say you could put a pos down...
what would you do? stay with it untill you had enough moon mins to leave? remember man, there is absolutly no way for you to know were you are gonna pop out in empire when you exit Wspace, and there is NO WAY, you can know you are going to get back to the same place.....
You don't know. But finding you're way out is relatively easy once you locate the wormhole itself. And a w-system can have multiple exits.
So, you and you're corp are exploring, and find a great moon. One or more of your corpies stay in that system, constantly scanning out new exits, relaying those exits to the corp, and you're buddies go through the hassle of flying in. Bunch of haulers shouldn't overload most wormhole masses. One day you enter that system through Heimatar. Two days later, through Lonetrek. But as long as you've got boys on the inside finding those wormholes, you always know where at least ONE entrance is.
You set up shop, and start to mining. Now, just repeat the process. As long as you can get back to k-space, you can arrange either a rendevous with a jump hauler, or a visit to a local station.
The logistics are more complicated, but not really anymore than players had to deal with before cyno's and jump systems. The key, though, is that once you get into the system ... you are always guaranteed a way out.
well whos a smart ar5e! ;) lol thanks though man, despite spending a large amount of time doig this on sisi i had not thought of the obvious that you just pointed out ;)
lol /slap. ;)
Nothing wrong with it. Good discussion.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:31:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 09/03/2009 19:34:08
Im sorry but I dont see the point to have a POS that's constantly getting full and running out of fuel requiring to off line it all the time, and with no gaurantee youll be able to get either done for days on end. I mean alot of us are getting stuck in wspace after the WH collaspes and most of the exit wormholes take us out further and further and further and so far NOBODY has reported visiting the same WH space twice yet.
Even if they do put in high end moon minerals I can gaurantee you that it will be in deadly unknown space, only accessible though other wormhole systems, the only people able to make sure they can constnatly see that fuel is brought in and minerals are taken out WILL be the mega Allainces.
Oh dont use freighters, the have often a nasty habit of collasping a wormhole and with no slots it cant scan for its way out.
Any extensive POS operations deep in W space is highly improbable constantly draining k space resources for marginal returns and excessivly high risk especially when constantly trying to fly new fuel in though less than friendly territory.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:33:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Im sorry but I dont see the point to have a POS that's constantly getting full and running out of fuel requiring to off line it all the time, and with no gaurantee youll be able to get either done for days on end. I mean alot of us are getting stuck in wspace after the WH collaspes and most of the exit wormholes take us out further and further and further and so far NOBODY has reported visiting the same WH space twice yet.
Even if they do put in high end moon minerals I can gaurantee you that it will be in deadly unknown space, only accessible though other wormhole systems, the only people able to make sure they can constnatly see that fuel is brought in and minerals are taken out WILL be the mega Allainces.
Oh dont use freighters, the have often a nasty habit of collasping a wormhole and with no slots it cant scan for its way out.
Key words:
TEAM. EFFORT.
And agreed, freighters are bad.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ruze
Key words:
TEAM. EFFORT.
And agreed, freighters are bad.
What do you know? something the mega allainces are not in short supply of.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:36:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Originally by: Ruze
Key words:
TEAM. EFFORT.
And agreed, freighters are bad.
What do you know? something the mega allainces are not in short supply of.
So true, it hurts. 
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:39:00 -
[42]
Saddly theyll probably be one of two people bringing dreadnaughts into w space to purposly pop pos's
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Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:39:00 -
[43]
well with T3 around the corner, i may end up abandoning my T2 reactions entirely... or i may do both... i am really curious as to how the market will look in a few days.
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:43:00 -
[44]
My plan was gonna be to jump in with a rorq and a carrier (or a rorq and enough combat support) find a moon worth mining, carry as much POS fuel as I could for a small faction tower, then to scan the wormholes in the w-space system and "mass them out" just to the point of collapse regularly so that if the WH is found there won't be much coming through- then mine until I'm either out of fuel or space. Keep in mind the rorq with expanders holds 126k m3. I was just thinking moon mining, no intention whatsoever to go after the sleepers.
Boneheaded scheme? Perhaps. Completely impractical? Probably. But doing boneheaded, impractical stuff is fun. People thought I was nuts when I used to jump my carrier into fountain solo to hit the explo sites there (had an alt that could flipflop between cyno/ garage alt for the carrier) but I made billions and had a BLAST doing it. I don't mind the loss/ risk side of Eve... I just want to play with all of the toys : )
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:49:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Enkindu
My plan was gonna be to jump in with a rorq and a carrier (or a rorq and enough combat support) find a moon worth mining, carry as much POS fuel as I could for a small faction tower, then to scan the wormholes in the w-space system and "mass them out" just to the point of collapse regularly so that if the WH is found there won't be much coming through- then mine until I'm either out of fuel or space. Keep in mind the rorq with expanders holds 126k m3. I was just thinking moon mining, no intention whatsoever to go after the sleepers.
Boneheaded scheme? Perhaps. Completely impractical? Probably. But doing boneheaded, impractical stuff is fun. People thought I was nuts when I used to jump my carrier into fountain solo to hit the explo sites there (had an alt that could flipflop between cyno/ garage alt for the carrier) but I made billions and had a BLAST doing it. I don't mind the loss/ risk side of Eve... I just want to play with all of the toys : )
the more stuff you shove into your roquel the more likely youll break the WH.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Saddly theyll probably be one of two people bringing dreadnaughts into w space to purposly pop pos's
A single dread vs an even moderately gunned POS is going to have problems.
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Kyanzes
Amarr
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:54:00 -
[47]
NO WIN BUTTON??? I'M OUTTA HERE.
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Unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality. |
Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:00:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Nova Fox
the more stuff you shove into your roquel the more likely youll break the WH.
As long as you slipped in a few decent scanning/ combat ships ahead of time (only barges and indys in the rorq) collapsing the wormhole would be good. Rorq has 40k corp hangar so you could tweak fits in there with it. I was envisioning scanning and trying to mass out the WH pretty much as quickly as I could find them.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:02:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Enkindu
Originally by: Nova Fox
the more stuff you shove into your roquel the more likely youll break the WH.
As long as you slipped in a few decent scanning/ combat ships ahead of time (only barges and indys in the rorq) collapsing the wormhole would be good. Rorq has 40k corp hangar so you could tweak fits in there with it. I was envisioning scanning and trying to mass out the WH pretty much as quickly as I could find them.
Is that a good idea? I mean, you can monitor a wormhole you know ... specifically if it's in some innocent section of space. But if you close down the only k-space wormhole, you're going to force a new one to appear ... possibly in some very bad space.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:07:00 -
[50]
thats the decision youll have to come to of figuring out if you want to moderatly arm the POS or not considering youll have to bring it ammo and the guns as well and your probably referring to a large towers armaments not the light towers most people are suggesting here.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:19:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ruze
Is that a good idea? I mean, you can monitor a wormhole you know ... specifically if it's in some innocent section of space. But if you close down the only k-space wormhole, you're going to force a new one to appear ... possibly in some very bad space.
Could be. I trained up calibration V to help deal with this potential problem, but yes you could end up screwed- that's part of the allure of wormholes ; )
It's all moot now anyway, no moons to go looking for : (
Thanks to everyone sharing ideas and discussion- that was the intention of my original post.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:23:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Clair Bear on 09/03/2009 20:23:48
W-space has nothing for me. So it is nearly certain I will not be going either. No bounties, no moons to mine. And the loot drops will be of dubious value.
If I want challenging, unpredictable encounters I can simply hang around lowsec gates. With the added possible bonus of smack and tears -- two things Sleepers will not provide.
Besides, my Domi still works vs players.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:32:00 -
[53]
I'm thinking a lot of the W-space content will be farmed endlessly by some groups (who will no doubt find a flawless setup that works every time vs sleepers) and totally ignored by others. I hope not though; last thing we need is more Drone Regions. 
- Infectious - |
Johli
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:35:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kyanzes
NO WIN BUTTON??? I'M OUTTA HERE.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:49:00 -
[55]
The people posting the "no win button" crap.. could you please read the post and not just the thread title before responding?
If you did you'd see that I wasn't asking for a "win" button, but rather for a chance to take an unarmed, unescorted 2 billion isk ship loaded with half a billion isk worth of fuel and equipment into extremely dangerous space (with no guarantee of a safe route home) with the hope that I could survive and return with enough dysprosium to make the expedition worth it.
It's not about winning- it's about just getting the chance to try some stuff out. I think that's a big part of why some of us play eve.
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:50:00 -
[56]
Edited by: mechtech on 09/03/2009 20:50:31
You're missing something, it's incredibly easy for alliances to lock down a WH system with a good moon in it.
Get a few pilots into the system, pop wormholes 'till one appears in high sec/friendly space, move pilots and an industrial with a POS in, pop more WHs, bring more pilots/supplies in, plop down the POS make a few cap ships -> the system is untouchable to anyone.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:58:00 -
[57]
Thought you needed sov to build caps?
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.03.09 21:26:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Sebea on 09/03/2009 21:27:13
Originally by: Enkindu
Thought you needed sov to build caps?
No.
Sov 4 is obviously superior for building caps because of the pos immunity, but caps can be built anywhere really.
Edit: And though yours wasn't really a wall of text, did you see how much information I gave you in one sentence? Your overly verbose, and your using too many big words put together for the General Discussion forums.
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.09 21:27:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Enkindu
Thought you needed sov to build caps?
You're right, no sov in WH space. Well regardless, alliances would have the dyspro moons in a month or to. If you already have a few pilots in the system, you can have over a hundred in within 24 hours. Popping wormholes is really easy.
That means that alliance warfare would take place in high value WH systems. CCP didn't want this to happen to WH space. The whole mechanic is designed for it to be isolated and fit only for roaming gangs.
Of course alliance warfare in high value WH space could be kinda interesting (but mostly tedious), but it would bring in whole new problems, such as WH nodes crashing, and contingencies that they didn't, and don't want, to plan for. I support their decision, WH space is an expansion of the exploration concept, I'm sure we'll see an expansion of alliance warfare in the next expansion or 2, it's about due.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.10 00:50:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sebea
Your overly verbose, and your using too many big words put together for the General Discussion forums.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
You guys are probably right that the big alliances would eventually find a way to lock down any available good moons in W-space. But the sheer number of new systems might have at least offered a chance for a few of the smaller motivated corps to have a chance to play a little, and I still believe the logistic hurdles associated with getting in and out of w-space might dissuade people from trying to establish long term POS there. I could be wrong of course.
I doubt I'm the only person in the game who is more than a little dissapointed that moon mining was cut from w-space.
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Phrixus Zephyr
Prospero Incorperated
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Posted - 2009.03.10 01:01:00 -
[61]
A deathstar would be immovable once it had been setup with the way wormholes were working on the test server. You know it, anyone whos tested them knows it. All you want is to be one of the first to get your very own isk printing machine and now you've got sand in your vagina because you realised thats not going to happen.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.10 01:15:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
A deathstar would be immovable once it had been setup with the way wormholes were working on the test server. You know it, anyone whos tested them knows it. All you want is to be one of the first to get your very own isk printing machine and now you've got sand in your vagina because you realised thats not going to happen.
Thanks for the belly laugh. Funny for years I've been telling people that the eve community is great and generally pretty intelligent and mature.. guess I'll have to amend that now with a warning that the forums seem to have a solid population of 15 year old tough guys : )
As sure as you are that you understand everything in the universe you are absolutely incorrect. The completionist in me would just once, even if only for a short period of time, be able to build a black ops from scratch, having obtained all of the raw materials on my own. I understand this may be a little to esoteric for you to get your mind around, and for that I apologize... I'll try to limit my further responses in this thread to grunts and single syllable words to bring myself more in line with community expectations.
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