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xxxak
Caldari O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:20:00 -
[1]
Any indy guy here have a good estimate?
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:29:00 -
[2]
Over nine thousand ...
But dev's have stated that the aim is approx same as T2 cruisers, however initial price estimates from players (assuming same isk/h as hi sec veld sucking for builders) is around 250 mil. Did not look at data immediately before relase tho - there might be some last minute tweaks in there.
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:30:00 -
[3]
The true cost wont settle down right away, so unless you absolutely HAVE to have a hull + components just give it a little time to settle down.
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. |
Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Carniflex Over nine thousand ...
But dev's have stated that the aim is approx same as T2 cruisers, however initial price estimates from players (assuming same isk/h as hi sec veld sucking for builders) is around 250 mil. Did not look at data immediately before relase tho - there might be some last minute tweaks in there.
Aye, I have to concur with the rumor mill. We'll see them being equivalent to the price of T2 cruisers before invention which was around 200-250. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?' Item Database
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nether void
Caldari The Older Gamers Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:40:00 -
[5]
Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30 If sleepers are just as hard on implementation as reports have them on Sisi, then expect T3 ships to cost a boatload. There's a LOT of risk with collecting the parts, not only from pirates but from just getting BBQed by the sleepers.
T3 ships will have to be pwnmobiles for people to want to pay to fly them. Unless they're not meant for PvP.
*edit* Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure. --------------------
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:48:00 -
[6]
Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30
*edit* Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure.
So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training.
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. |
nether void
Caldari The Older Gamers Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: brinelan
Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30
*edit* Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure.
So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training.
It is if its over and over and over then yeah. Anything that slows down skill training I'm going to avoid. It's not like I can go grind out SP like I can ISK. --------------------
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:54:00 -
[8]
Eh, throw a point or two in the skillque here and there.
I cant see this being all that different from the old stupidly expensive vaga setups with the stupidly expensive implants. Some people used them, and most were kept away because they didnt want to lose billions when they made a mistake and got podded.
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.03.10 20:20:00 -
[9]
After approx 30 - 40 mil SP a level 4 from rank 1 skill is .. relatively irrelevant .. as long as you do not do it too often. Say once a day. At 60 mil SP it's not a big deal if you lose level 5 from that rank 1 skills if it's rare enough event. Matter of opinion ofc.
Now cost - the prices will end up propably considerably above ~250 mil mark as no one in their right mind will suck gas in wormspace if all they get is same isk/h as sucking veld in hi sec. Sleeper salvage - if you are optimistic - you can assume to be generated regardless of isk/h. Gas - that is a whole other ballpark. No isk - no gas as it's as boring as mining usually is and one is stiking his neck out in relatively specialized setup for that.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.03.10 20:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: nether void T3 ships will have to be pwnmobiles for people to want to pay to fly them. Unless they're not meant for PvP.
They are pretty pwnmobile-ish. The amarr one is sort of grid challenged, but with some decent skills there are some absolutely nasty t3 mods available and firepower beyond anything seen so far (6 turrets with 10% damage bonus per level and either 10% optimal or 7.5% tracking bonus? This on a hull that can almost match a Damnation in terms of tanking power. Yes please). The Proteus and Loki (gallente&minmatar) E-war electronic modules open up a few possibilities as well. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
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Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.03.10 20:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Carniflex
Now cost - the prices will end up propably considerably above ~250 mil mark as no one in their right mind will suck gas in wormspace if all they get is same isk/h as sucking veld in hi sec. Sleeper salvage - if you are optimistic - you can assume to be generated regardless of isk/h. Gas - that is a whole other ballpark. No isk - no gas as it's as boring as mining usually is and one is stiking his neck out in relatively specialized setup for that.
You make the false assumption that most EVE industrialists value their time. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?' Item Database
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Victor Valka
Caldari Kissaki Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.11 07:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Pwett
Originally by: Carniflex
Now cost - the prices will end up propably considerably above ~250 mil mark as no one in their right mind will suck gas in wormspace if all they get is same isk/h as sucking veld in hi sec. Sleeper salvage - if you are optimistic - you can assume to be generated regardless of isk/h. Gas - that is a whole other ballpark. No isk - no gas as it's as boring as mining usually is and one is stiking his neck out in relatively specialized setup for that.
You make the false assumption that most EVE industrialists value their time.
+1 Internets for you, sir. It's so funny because it is so true.
Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
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Vardemis
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.11 08:37:00 -
[13]
I expect the price to settle around 500-600m, that is after a few months.
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Monikerina
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Posted - 2009.03.11 12:41:00 -
[14]
7.45 plus tax
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Monikerina
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Posted - 2009.03.11 12:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: brinelan
Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30
*edit* Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure.
So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training.
Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training.
tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face.
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Haruka Watanabe
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Posted - 2009.03.11 13:03:00 -
[16]
Considering that they're modular I'd expect there to be quite a bit of volatility for a long time. It's difficult at this point to predict what the popular parts are going to be, simply because people haven't had enough time to theorycraft the combinations out very much.
I'd expect some rather exorbinant prices to start (over 1 billion for a full set would not surprise me) but after some corps get established in W-space and figure out how to kill the space-bugs and their Wolverine on PCP DPS with some efficiency prices will come down.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.03.11 13:47:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Haruka Watanabe Considering that they're modular I'd expect there to be quite a bit of volatility for a long time. It's difficult at this point to predict what the popular parts are going to be, simply because people haven't had enough time to theorycraft the combinations out very much.
I'd expect some rather exorbinant prices to start (over 1 billion for a full set would not surprise me) but after some corps get established in W-space and figure out how to kill the space-bugs and their Wolverine on PCP DPS with some efficiency prices will come down.
While it might be hard for industrialist to predict exact subsystems that would be the most popular with some common sense that industrialist can avoid at least those that stink - like for example bonus for cap use when starting warp - only reason to use that one is if you don't have anything else. And yes - I do expect to see them on market bcos someone will be unfortunate enough to get BPC for it and someone other will be dumb enough to build it.
It is also fairly reasonable bet, that weapon subsystems with highest damage bonuses will be more popular than the others. At first deciding factor will be material and BPC supply not popularity in classical sense tho bcos anything you will put on the market will sell - at least at first.
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Monikerina
Originally by: brinelan
Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30
*edit* Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure.
So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training.
Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training.
tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face.
huh? If you want to fly the ship, then 7 minutes to go from 0-1 or 45min to go from 1-2 is a perfectly acceptable cost. Yes, it is part of the cost of the ship, much like the multi billion isk implant sets for the old nano vagas were prior to the speed nerf. Most pvp pilots at some point or another forgot to get a new clone and got podded, and lost a heck of a lot more then that.
If you dont like the tiny amount of skill time you lose then dont fly the ships.
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. |
Khrillian
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Monikerina
Originally by: brinelan
Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30
*edit* Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure.
So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training.
Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training.
tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face.
Skillpoints aren't really worth all that much compared to implant sets and other expensive toys. The character bazaar is a good way to estimate SP value - and I think 1mil SPs is worth around 150mil...chump change.
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Monikerina
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Monikerina on 11/03/2009 14:47:46
Originally by: brinelan
Originally by: Monikerina
Originally by: brinelan
Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30
*edit* Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure.
So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training.
Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training.
tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face.
huh? If you want to fly the ship, then 7 minutes to go from 0-1 or 45min to go from 1-2 is a perfectly acceptable cost. Yes, it is part of the cost of the ship, much like the multi billion isk implant sets for the old nano vagas were prior to the speed nerf. Most pvp pilots at some point or another forgot to get a new clone and got podded, and lost a heck of a lot more then that.
If you dont like the tiny amount of skill time you lose then dont fly the ships.
You said the loosing skills was ok if you had lost skills in the past. That's nonsensical for the reason I listed.
Unavoidable skill loss on death is not the same as not cloning up. Not having an up to date clone is 100% avoidable. Loosing skills due to loosing a T3 ship Is 100% unavoidable if you fly T3 ships. Huge difference.
Also comparing SP to isk makes no sense. Isk is free (libre not gratis) where as lost SP can never be recovered. The more you PvP and the more you retrain T3 the further behind you get.
If you leave the skill at 1 then what's the point of flying T3. Some other ship will be better since you have 20% more bonus.
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Ishikari
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:51:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Ishikari on 11/03/2009 14:52:43
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:53:00 -
[22]
Again, 45 minutes of training time is not going to "make me get behind". Seriously. If you dont like losing 45 minutes of training time, then dont fly the ships. Not everyone is a min maxing achura.
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. |
Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:55:00 -
[23]
There comes a time in your training career where you have the choice between branching off in a new direction or spending 40 days to get 2% more weapon damage. At that point, 45 minutes, even a day, doesn't matter. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?' Item Database
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OneOfYour Dads
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Khrillian
Skillpoints aren't really worth all that much compared to implant sets and other expensive toys. The character bazaar is a good way to estimate SP value - and I think 1mil SPs is worth around 150mil...chump change.
WTB decent spec char with 20 mill skill points - paying 3 bill. EVE mail me, I may be some time getting back to you due to the inordinate amount of mail I am expecting from my generous offer.
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Monikerina
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Posted - 2009.03.11 15:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Khrillian
Originally by: Monikerina
Originally by: brinelan
Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30
*edit* Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure.
So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training.
Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training.
tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face.
Skillpoints aren't really worth all that much compared to implant sets and other expensive toys. The character bazaar is a good way to estimate SP value - and I think 1mil SPs is worth around 150mil...chump change.
Ok how do I go about getting these Sp added to my character? Oh I can't? Your example is not at all relevant.
SP can never be replaced. If you're ok with constantly wasting time and falling behind then go have fun but try and convince me there's nothign wrong with it.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.03.11 20:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Monikerina
Ok how do I go about getting these Sp added to my character? Oh I can't? Your example is not at all relevant.
SP can never be replaced. If you're ok with constantly wasting time and falling behind then go have fun but try and convince me there's nothign wrong with it.
Don't like it - don't use it. Me .. well ... few mil SP aint that important to me anymore. Have already most skills at 5 I'm using in my everyday activities. I can take the SP loss - will hurt a bit to lose lev 5 in subsystem skill ofc but meh, it's only rank 1 so what .. 4 days max ? And considering the price of those ships will have I don't plan to lose one every week.
Assuming I can find setup that does 'it' better than relevant T2 - if not - well I will keep using that relevant T2 for 'it' then.
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Victor Valka
Caldari Kissaki Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.11 20:44:00 -
[27]
Here I was, thinking that his thread is about the cost of T3 ships...
What does it has to do with skills?
Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
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Xtreem
Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.11 21:34:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Victor Valka Here I was, thinking that his thread is about the cost of T3 ships...
What does it has to do with skills?
well if u lose a T3 ship, u lose one skill level on a random sub structure skill.. so i guess skills/sp are slightly related to T3
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Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.11 23:21:00 -
[29]
Actually I think T3 will be pretty cheap after the first demand wave and when production lines and salvaging settles. Something around 50-75mio for a hull+5 subsystems. They are much easier to make and harvest than T2. --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Polysynchronicity
Amarr MEK Enterprises Mjolnir Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 23:22:00 -
[30]
Can't you eject from a T3 ship to avoid the skill loss? ---------- Now recruiting:
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