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How much will T3 cost?

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xxxak Caldari O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:20:00 - [1] Any indy guy here have a good estimate?
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:29:00 - [2] Over nine thousand ... But dev's have stated that the aim is approx same as T2 cruisers, however initial price estimates from players (assuming same isk/h as hi sec veld sucking for builders) is around 250 mil. Did not look at data immediately before relase tho - there might be some last minute tweaks in there.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:30:00 - [3] The true cost wont settle down right away, so unless you absolutely HAVE to have a hull + components just give it a little time to settle down. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Carniflex Over nine thousand ... But dev's have stated that the aim is approx same as T2 cruisers, however initial price estimates from players (assuming same isk/h as hi sec veld sucking for builders) is around 250 mil. Did not look at data immediately before relase tho - there might be some last minute tweaks in there. Aye, I have to concur with the rumor mill. We'll see them being equivalent to the price of T2 cruisers before invention which was around 200-250. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?' Item Database
nether void Caldari The Older Gamers Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:40:00 - [5] Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30 If sleepers are just as hard on implementation as reports have them on Sisi, then expect T3 ships to cost a boatload. There's a LOT of risk with collecting the parts, not only from pirates but from just getting BBQed by the sleepers. T3 ships will have to be pwnmobiles for people to want to pay to fly them. Unless they're not meant for PvP. edit Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure. --------------------
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:48:00 - [6] Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30 edit Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure. So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
nether void Caldari The Older Gamers Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:51:00 - [7] Originally by: brinelan Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30 edit Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure. So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training. It is if its over and over and over then yeah. Anything that slows down skill training I'm going to avoid. It's not like I can go grind out SP like I can ISK. --------------------
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:54:00 - [8] Eh, throw a point or two in the skillque here and there. I cant see this being all that different from the old stupidly expensive vaga setups with the stupidly expensive implants. Some people used them, and most were kept away because they didnt want to lose billions when they made a mistake and got podded. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:20:00 - [9] After approx 30 - 40 mil SP a level 4 from rank 1 skill is .. relatively irrelevant .. as long as you do not do it too often. Say once a day. At 60 mil SP it's not a big deal if you lose level 5 from that rank 1 skills if it's rare enough event. Matter of opinion ofc. Now cost - the prices will end up propably considerably above ~250 mil mark as no one in their right mind will suck gas in wormspace if all they get is same isk/h as sucking veld in hi sec. Sleeper salvage - if you are optimistic - you can assume to be generated regardless of isk/h. Gas - that is a whole other ballpark. No isk - no gas as it's as boring as mining usually is and one is stiking his neck out in relatively specialized setup for that.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:35:00 - [10] Originally by: nether void T3 ships will have to be pwnmobiles for people to want to pay to fly them. Unless they're not meant for PvP. They are pretty pwnmobile-ish. The amarr one is sort of grid challenged, but with some decent skills there are some absolutely nasty t3 mods available and firepower beyond anything seen so far (6 turrets with 10% damage bonus per level and either 10% optimal or 7.5% tracking bonus? This on a hull that can almost match a Damnation in terms of tanking power. Yes please). The Proteus and Loki (gallente&minmatar) E-war electronic modules open up a few possibilities as well. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.

Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Carniflex Now cost - the prices will end up propably considerably above ~250 mil mark as no one in their right mind will suck gas in wormspace if all they get is same isk/h as sucking veld in hi sec. Sleeper salvage - if you are optimistic - you can assume to be generated regardless of isk/h. Gas - that is a whole other ballpark. No isk - no gas as it's as boring as mining usually is and one is stiking his neck out in relatively specialized setup for that. You make the false assumption that most EVE industrialists value their time. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?' Item Database
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.11 07:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Pwett Originally by: Carniflex Now cost - the prices will end up propably considerably above ~250 mil mark as no one in their right mind will suck gas in wormspace if all they get is same isk/h as sucking veld in hi sec. Sleeper salvage - if you are optimistic - you can assume to be generated regardless of isk/h. Gas - that is a whole other ballpark. No isk - no gas as it's as boring as mining usually is and one is stiking his neck out in relatively specialized setup for that. You make the false assumption that most EVE industrialists value their time. +1 Internets for you, sir. It's so funny because it is so true. Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Vardemis Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.03.11 08:37:00 - [13] I expect the price to settle around 500-600m, that is after a few months.
Monikerina	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:41:00 - [14] 7.45 plus tax
Monikerina	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:59:00 - [15] Originally by: brinelan Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30 edit Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure. So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training. Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training. tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face.
Haruka Watanabe	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:03:00 - [16] Considering that they're modular I'd expect there to be quite a bit of volatility for a long time. It's difficult at this point to predict what the popular parts are going to be, simply because people haven't had enough time to theorycraft the combinations out very much. I'd expect some rather exorbinant prices to start (over 1 billion for a full set would not surprise me) but after some corps get established in W-space and figure out how to kill the space-bugs and their Wolverine on PCP DPS with some efficiency prices will come down.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Haruka Watanabe Considering that they're modular I'd expect there to be quite a bit of volatility for a long time. It's difficult at this point to predict what the popular parts are going to be, simply because people haven't had enough time to theorycraft the combinations out very much. I'd expect some rather exorbinant prices to start (over 1 billion for a full set would not surprise me) but after some corps get established in W-space and figure out how to kill the space-bugs and their Wolverine on PCP DPS with some efficiency prices will come down. While it might be hard for industrialist to predict exact subsystems that would be the most popular with some common sense that industrialist can avoid at least those that stink - like for example bonus for cap use when starting warp - only reason to use that one is if you don't have anything else. And yes - I do expect to see them on market bcos someone will be unfortunate enough to get BPC for it and someone other will be dumb enough to build it. It is also fairly reasonable bet, that weapon subsystems with highest damage bonuses will be more popular than the others. At first deciding factor will be material and BPC supply not popularity in classical sense tho bcos anything you will put on the market will sell - at least at first.
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Monikerina Originally by: brinelan Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30 edit Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure. So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training. Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training. tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face. huh? If you want to fly the ship, then 7 minutes to go from 0-1 or 45min to go from 1-2 is a perfectly acceptable cost. Yes, it is part of the cost of the ship, much like the multi billion isk implant sets for the old nano vagas were prior to the speed nerf. Most pvp pilots at some point or another forgot to get a new clone and got podded, and lost a heck of a lot more then that. If you dont like the tiny amount of skill time you lose then dont fly the ships. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Monikerina Originally by: brinelan Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30 edit Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure. So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training. Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training. tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face. Skillpoints aren't really worth all that much compared to implant sets and other expensive toys. The character bazaar is a good way to estimate SP value - and I think 1mil SPs is worth around 150mil...chump change.
Monikerina	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:45:00 - [20] Edited by: Monikerina on 11/03/2009 14:47:46 Originally by: brinelan Originally by: Monikerina Originally by: brinelan Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30 edit Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure. So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training. Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training. tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face. huh? If you want to fly the ship, then 7 minutes to go from 0-1 or 45min to go from 1-2 is a perfectly acceptable cost. Yes, it is part of the cost of the ship, much like the multi billion isk implant sets for the old nano vagas were prior to the speed nerf. Most pvp pilots at some point or another forgot to get a new clone and got podded, and lost a heck of a lot more then that. If you dont like the tiny amount of skill time you lose then dont fly the ships. You said the loosing skills was ok if you had lost skills in the past. That's nonsensical for the reason I listed. Unavoidable skill loss on death is not the same as not cloning up. Not having an up to date clone is 100% avoidable. Loosing skills due to loosing a T3 ship Is 100% unavoidable if you fly T3 ships. Huge difference. Also comparing SP to isk makes no sense. Isk is free (libre not gratis) where as lost SP can never be recovered. The more you PvP and the more you retrain T3 the further behind you get. If you leave the skill at 1 then what's the point of flying T3. Some other ship will be better since you have 20% more bonus.

Ishikari Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:51:00 - [21] Edited by: Ishikari on 11/03/2009 14:52:43
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:53:00 - [22] Again, 45 minutes of training time is not going to "make me get behind". Seriously. If you dont like losing 45 minutes of training time, then dont fly the ships. Not everyone is a min maxing achura. Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield.
Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:55:00 - [23] There comes a time in your training career where you have the choice between branching off in a new direction or spending 40 days to get 2% more weapon damage. At that point, 45 minutes, even a day, doesn't matter. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?' Item Database
OneOfYour Dads	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Khrillian Skillpoints aren't really worth all that much compared to implant sets and other expensive toys. The character bazaar is a good way to estimate SP value - and I think 1mil SPs is worth around 150mil...chump change. WTB decent spec char with 20 mill skill points - paying 3 bill. EVE mail me, I may be some time getting back to you due to the inordinate amount of mail I am expecting from my generous offer.
Monikerina	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Khrillian Originally by: Monikerina Originally by: brinelan Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 10/03/2009 18:40:30 edit Oh plus the part where you lose SP when you're killed. No matter how much you lose that will keep me out of them, that's for sure. So losing 1 level in a rank 1 skill is that big of a penalty eh? I am sure you have lost more then 45min sometime in your skill training. Ok let me get this straight. Since you've lost skill training previously then loosing further skill training is acceptable? The logical conclusion of that is that never training anything is perfectly acceptable once you've missed a single second of training. tl;dr I hit you in the face once so it's ok for me to keep hitting you in the face. Skillpoints aren't really worth all that much compared to implant sets and other expensive toys. The character bazaar is a good way to estimate SP value - and I think 1mil SPs is worth around 150mil...chump change. Ok how do I go about getting these Sp added to my character? Oh I can't? Your example is not at all relevant. SP can never be replaced. If you're ok with constantly wasting time and falling behind then go have fun but try and convince me there's nothign wrong with it.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Monikerina Ok how do I go about getting these Sp added to my character? Oh I can't? Your example is not at all relevant. SP can never be replaced. If you're ok with constantly wasting time and falling behind then go have fun but try and convince me there's nothign wrong with it. Don't like it - don't use it. Me .. well ... few mil SP aint that important to me anymore. Have already most skills at 5 I'm using in my everyday activities. I can take the SP loss - will hurt a bit to lose lev 5 in subsystem skill ofc but meh, it's only rank 1 so what .. 4 days max ? And considering the price of those ships will have I don't plan to lose one every week. Assuming I can find setup that does 'it' better than relevant T2 - if not - well I will keep using that relevant T2 for 'it' then.
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:44:00 - [27] Here I was, thinking that his thread is about the cost of T3 ships... What does it has to do with skills? Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.11 21:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Victor Valka Here I was, thinking that his thread is about the cost of T3 ships... What does it has to do with skills? well if u lose a T3 ship, u lose one skill level on a random sub structure skill.. so i guess skills/sp are slightly related to T3
Shintai Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards	Posted - 2009.03.11 23:21:00 - [29] Actually I think T3 will be pretty cheap after the first demand wave and when production lines and salvaging settles. Something around 50-75mio for a hull+5 subsystems. They are much easier to make and harvest than T2. -------------------------------------- Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry
Polysynchronicity Amarr MEK Enterprises Mjolnir Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 23:22:00 - [30] Can't you eject from a T3 ship to avoid the skill loss? ---------- Now recruiting:

Pwett QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.03.11 23:50:00 - [31] Originally by: Pwett Originally by: Carniflex Now cost - the prices will end up propably considerably above ~250 mil mark as no one in their right mind will suck gas in wormspace if all they get is same isk/h as sucking veld in hi sec. Sleeper salvage - if you are optimistic - you can assume to be generated regardless of isk/h. Gas - that is a whole other ballpark. No isk - no gas as it's as boring as mining usually is and one is stiking his neck out in relatively specialized setup for that. You make the false assumption that most EVE industrialists value their time. Originally by: Victor Valka Here I was, thinking that his thread is about the cost of T3 ships... What does it has to do with skills? Case - in - point _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony QUANT is rebuilding, EVE-Mail me for recruitment info. Item Database
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:36:00 - [32] If the T3 ships are as good as they appear on paper, than I can assure you that PvPers are not going to care about the once in a blue moon occurance where they have to retrain a rank 1 skill back from level 3 to level 4 (which is about what, 16 hours?). In cases of PvE or being attacked by a small number of players, skill loss is entirely avoidable by ejecting.
Psi Draconis	Posted - 2009.03.12 11:04:00 - [33] Originally by: Polysynchronicity Can't you eject from a T3 ship to avoid the skill loss? IIRC yes.
CHAOS100 Widowmakers	Posted - 2009.03.12 14:48:00 - [34] From what limited stuff I have seen, T3 ships are OK at everything and good at nothing. Which TBH does not appeal to me all that much unless they are very reasonably priced. I already own all the useful ships that have different roles, like damage dealing, falcon, arazu, curse, tank ship. If I want to jam, I get a Falcon... with the T3 ship you get a half assed bonus to jamming and no range bonus. The gallente don't even get full 125m3 drone usage. I would rather switch to the ship that is good at what I need rather than switching out to different subsystems that are inferior to their t2 specialty ship. We also expect an increasing better tank with increasing price. With 5 or 6 bonuses, the ships could possibly have some pwnmobile combination, and that's all I see that is going for them. --------------
Viilaa Caldari OH Corp	Posted - 2009.03.12 15:05:00 - [35] Originally by: brinelan Again, 45 minutes of training time is not going to "make me get behind". Seriously. If you dont like losing 45 minutes of training time, then dont fly the ships. Not everyone is a min maxing achura. Hey now I AM a min/maxing Achure, but I plan on flying T3 one day. The bonuses seen so far are just to nice not to fly one. Just need to wait a couple months to find the combo I like best. Viilaa
Aramith	Posted - 2009.03.12 18:52:00 - [36] Well not a completely accurate price because there is one gas that i did not see on the market yet, but using the lowest market prices I can find, in Forge (jita market), the citadel, and the gallante starter region, for everything else if you were to buy the materials on the market today it would cost over 1.8 billion to make a single tech 3 ship (hull + 5 subsystems) not including any costs incurred for buying BPC for the hull or subsystems or doing reverse engineering to get the bpc you need. That 1.8 billion also does not include the cost of the 700 units of fullerite c320 needed as there is none on the market yet. when the cheapest fullerite c540 gas is 4 million a unit and you need 300 to make one ship thats 1.2 billion in cost right there. I suspect that due to the market gougers that there will be no publicly made tech 3 ships for a while as corps will first see to their own tech 3 ship desires before selling anything on the market.
Tasko Pal THE IRIS United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.13 06:19:00 - [37] Originally by: CHAOS100 From what limited stuff I have seen, T3 ships are OK at everything and good at nothing. Which TBH does not appeal to me all that much unless they are very reasonably priced. I already own all the useful ships that have different roles, like damage dealing, falcon, arazu, curse, tank ship. If I want to jam, I get a Falcon... with the T3 ship you get a half assed bonus to jamming and no range bonus. The gallente don't even get full 125m3 drone usage. I would rather switch to the ship that is good at what I need rather than switching out to different subsystems that are inferior to their t2 specialty ship. We also expect an increasing better tank with increasing price. With 5 or 6 bonuses, the ships could possibly have some pwnmobile combination, and that's all I see that is going for them. You need to recheck your math. These bonuses are split up between several modules. There's a Gallente config with 125 m3 drones (base of the ship is 25 m3, there's a module that adds 25 m3, and the drone offensive module adds 75 m3). I believe the range bonus exists on a different caldari module, but I can't be bothered to check, Internet Tough Guy-style. I haven't actually flown these configurations so of course, there could be some other reason that they don't work.
Zhilia Mann	Posted - 2009.03.13 06:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: CHAOS100 The gallente don't even get full 125m3 drone usage. I would rather switch to the ship that is good at what I need rather than switching out to different subsystems that are inferior to their t2 specialty ship. You need to recheck your math. These bonuses are split up between several modules. There's a Gallente config with 125 m3 drones (base of the ship is 25 m3, there's a module that adds 25 m3, and the drone offensive module adds 75 m3). I believe the range bonus exists on a different caldari module, but I can't be bothered to check, Internet Tough Guy-style. I haven't actually flown these configurations so of course, there could be some other reason that they don't work. No, CHAOS is right. You can get a 125m3 bay but are maxed out at 75mbps bandwidth. Given the 15 Gallente modules released so far, the Ishtar will always have more drone firepower. Now, you can also seem to slap together a set of modules that will make your drones considerably -- quite considerably -- harder to kill. But that's sort of the theme of T3 so far: almost all possible combinations come out with sick tanks but they all lack 1) specialization and 2) damage. And it's nearly impossible to know what that will do to demand, and especially PVP demand (it would take a pretty dire set of mistakes to lose, say, a Tengu in PVE). On the flip side, the barrier of entry to the hulls/subsystems from a skills perspective is pretty amazingly low, so it might also end up with higher demand from low-SP characters who happen to have more disposable income than they know what to do with. Which all adds up to no one having a good grip on -- oh, right, back to the thread topic -- final T3 costs. I'd be willing to take bets of 600m in three months and stable after six at closer to 350m, but for all of the above reasons I'm pulling those numbers out of the same orifice everyone else is searching. Oh, and if the additional subsystems actually get released, all bets may be off all over again.


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