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Stuck in WH space WITH probelauncher - is that intended ?

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iudex Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.03.11 17:58:00 - [1] Yesterday i entered Unknown space (J102603) through a Wormhole from New Caldari and logged out. As expected, the WH wasn't there today, so after hunting Sleepers for few hours i tried to find a wormhole back to known space, with a core probe launcher and 50 core probes i thought this shouldn't be a problem. My i overlooked something but I'm getting dozens of signature hits, that end up to be Gravimetric or Ladar sites. I limited the filter to signatures only, tried to uncheck brackets for everything but Wormholes, but still there are huge amounts of that sites, sometimes up to 10 on a 8au probe hit. This makes it impossible to find a WH, it takes quite a while to narrow down the hits till one can see that they are Gravimetric or Ladar, and with the huge number of them i don't see a way to find a WH. After few hours of trying I'm thinking to give up this drake full of Sleeper loot and the implants in order to finally get out of there. Is this intended ? Or is there a way to filter out all the other signature sites from probe scanner ? Also i have the suspicion that there is no WH at all, since there haven't been anyone in that WH space for hours (been watching ship scanner). Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.81 // Angel Cartel +7.60 // Minmatar Republic -8.68 // Gallente Federation -9.88
Nykky Syxx	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:01:00 - [2] Originally by: iudex This makes it REALLY DIFFICULT AND TIME CONSUMING BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE to find a WH... Fixed that for ya.
Krevos Moritir Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:03:00 - [3] ---
Tivookz Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:11:00 - [4] Lets assume that only one exit is available. And that said exit leads to a 0.0 system deep in tenal without any stations in it or any nearby either for that matter. You could be stuck there for a long time, or at least until the wormhole spawns in a system that have people in it because as we all know wormholes collapse and respawn even if no ships have passed through them. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Ashina Sito Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:11:00 - [5] I am sure that CCP said there will always be a WH in a system so you can never be trapped. That being said it looks like your situation is that the WH is clustered amongst a bunch of other sites near the center of the system. Without a filter to remove found sites finding that WH may prove difficult/impossable. My suggestion is to set your probes so that are just out of range of each hit you have discovered. It does not work well but you can find sites that way, sometimes. Final option is tt log off and come back another hour/day/week and check and see if a new one has spawned. WH do list. 1. Bookmark the Wh when you find it. 2. Bookmark the WH in the w-space system before doing anything else. 3. Spam your scanner, kill a hamster. 4. Find another exit. 5. Don't log off in W-space.
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:12:00 - [6] probably intended. ccp has been warned about this multiple times during testing and they didn't change it. in the long run i expect them to give us a way to differentiate between normal plexes and wormholes but i guess they need to be convinced that it is actually an issue. (which it is imho) -- Originally by: kublai on Ankhesentapemkah That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:13:00 - [7] It is time consuming. There are SO MANY Gravimetric and Ladar sites out there that it can take a VERY long time. It took me about a Half Hour to find my way out when a wormhole collapsed behind me and my fleet yesterday. But I did eventually find my way out. One thing I noticed is that Wormholes tend to form around the outer edges of solar systems, on opposite sides from each other. Every wormhole I've found has always been on or near the orbit of an outer planet, and secondary wormholes were almost 180 degrees around the system circumference from each other. So bookmark your entry point, and search for a second WH on the opposite side of the system. Every WH system will have AT LEAST one way out, sometimes as many as four. Just keep trying, you'll find one eventually. ---- Fix the Wardec System!
Thernys Caldari Dark Force Recon	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:13:00 - [8] Edited by: Thernys on 11/03/2009 18:14:43 Originally by: iudex After few hours of trying I'm thinking to give up this drake full of Sleeper loot and the implants in order to finally get out of there. Is this intended ? Or is there a way to filter out all the other signature sites from probe scanner ? Also i have the suspicion that there is no WH at all, since there haven't been anyone in that WH space for hours (been watching ship scanner). More likely the wormhole leads to some unpopulated part of nullsec (or another w-space system) and so there isn't that much through traffic. Also, as pointed out already it's not impossible, but yes it may take some time. If you don't want to put in the effort, fly with someone who has more patience. If you don't want to make any educated guesses, you'll just have to resort to eliminating all the sigs one by one. I believe when you scan them down and/or visit them they get marked in the solar system map, so you can avoid scanning for the same place twice.
Jalum Krayal	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Thernys If you don't want to make any educated guesses, you'll just have to resort to eliminating all the sigs one by one. I believe when you scan them down and/or visit them they get marked in the solar system map, so you can avoid scanning for the same place twice. The problem is that the sites are often clustered together, so this really doesn't work. There needs to be a better way to manage large amounts of signatures in close proximity.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:29:00 - [10] I don't see this as an issue. It shoudn't be a trivially minor undertaking to find a way back. Considering you're exploring uncharted space through unstable wormholes, it shoudln't be as simple as going down to the corner store. At least you have the knowledge that there will always be a way back. You just have to find it.

Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Jalum Krayal Originally by: Thernys If you don't want to make any educated guesses, you'll just have to resort to eliminating all the sigs one by one. I believe when you scan them down and/or visit them they get marked in the solar system map, so you can avoid scanning for the same place twice. The problem is that the sites are often clustered together, so this really doesn't work. There needs to be a better way to manage large amounts of signatures in close proximity. This is because exploration sites are always within 4 AU of a planet. So use that fact to filter out sites that are probably exploration sites and look for things not within 4 AU of a planet.
Jalum Krayal	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Kyra Felann This is because exploration sites are always within 4 AU of a planet. So use that fact to filter out sites that are probably exploration sites and look for things not within 4 AU of a planet. How does one look for things that are not within 4AU of a planet? Surround it with probes that are 4.01AU from the planet (and every other planet)? I understand the gist of what you're saying, but on what basis do you look at a list of 20 signatures and decide which are within 4au of a planet and which aren't? The results are inclusive, so I first have to take note of all signatures, then reduce the probes down to 4AU around each planet and try to figure out which ones disappeared? If you have a good way of doing this with 20 signatures amongst a cluster of planets, I'd love to hear it.
Thernys Caldari Dark Force Recon	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:38:00 - [13] Edited by: Thernys on 11/03/2009 18:38:55 Originally by: Jalum Krayal Originally by: Thernys If you don't want to make any educated guesses, you'll just have to resort to eliminating all the sigs one by one. I believe when you scan them down and/or visit them they get marked in the solar system map, so you can avoid scanning for the same place twice. The problem is that the sites are often clustered together, so this really doesn't work. There needs to be a better way to manage large amounts of signatures in close proximity. That's where the educated guess I mentioned comes in. After noting the same thing as you, I decided it was probably more likely for asteroid belts and the like to be in a bunch around the central planets, and redirected my attention to the farther away, spread out sigs. The first one was indeed a wormhole. I figured it'd be easier to eliminate the single sigs first, and if no WH, then move to the cluster. If all you want is a way out, this seems a quite valid approach.
iudex Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:49:00 - [14] Edited by: iudex on 11/03/2009 18:49:33 Thanks for the replies so far, will take them into consideration. The main problem is that the spots i probed already and marked with a bookmark shown up in scan results again if i use only 1 probe and i have to narrow them down to know that they are the bookmarked ones. Only with multiple probes there are those dots that can be separated from the bookmarked ones - but sometimes they are too close which makes it very hard to distinguish from the already visited ones. Here's an example of a 4 probes 4.0au hit: screenshot So that's not just checking the sites one by one till i finally find a WH - if that were that easy I'd not make a post. But I'll try to search on the opposite site of the old WH then. If someone maybe knows a way how to filter anything out but the WH and doesn't want to share his knowledge for free, contact me in game, I'll pay for it. Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.81 // Angel Cartel +7.60 // Minmatar Republic -8.68 // Gallente Federation -9.88
The Snowman Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:06:00 - [15] Originally by: Kyra Felann This is because exploration sites are always within 4 AU of a planet. Oh look there is another one who didnt read the blog ;)
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:26:00 - [16] I totaly agree with the OP, I too am stuck in W-Space due to the sheer number of sites I find. My sugestion is that when you get your scan results you should be able to place a 'pin' in it so you know you have scanned it down already. Would go like this 1. System scan find a load of sites 2. Scan down a bunch to the point where they have types of ladar, gav etc etc. 3. Right click and 'place pin' 4. Rescan, pinned locations stay with the name they had This allows you to scan down things and mark them as 'known' so that you can narrow your search. The push pin data can be wipped on session change so that it's not possible to re-use the data. Just my idea of now to meet in the middle on the features. -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Aeris Bad'ia	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:27:00 - [17] Heres a little hint to scanning stuff down faster, no one said you could only use four probes at a time.
Jalum Krayal	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:28:00 - [18] I think it's funny that the people who have had to deal with finding WH exits are all coming up with the same suggestions: give us better tools to sort through the signatures. :D
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Jalum Krayal I think it's funny that the people who have had to deal with finding WH exits are all coming up with the same suggestions: give us better tools to sort through the signatures. :D Why is that funny? -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Jalum Krayal	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Cryten Jones Why is that funny? -CJ I guess funny was the wrong word. Hopeful, maybe? For a while I was worried that I was the only person with this problem. It's nice to know that it's not an uncommon problem.

Shilok Titan Industries Technology Team	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:38:00 - [21] Edited by: Shilok on 11/03/2009 19:39:30 Quote: This is because exploration sites are always within 4 AU of a planet. So use that fact to filter out sites that are probably exploration sites and look for things not within 4 AU of a planet. I can confirm this is NOT the case anymore. I found an exploration site 20 AU from any celestial object yesterday using Deep space probes to narrow down the signal. The hint that this is no longer the case should come from the fact that core probes can go to 32 AU. If you are limiting your search for exploration sites to 4 AUs around planets you are missing A TON. Or as someone mentioned above, you could just read the blog that states that it doesn't work like that anymroe
Juan Valhdez	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:42:00 - [22] whaaa, ccp is making me work for something.(that kinda what the entire thread reads like) Taking a look at your screenshot... so what? pick one, move probes closer, scan smaller range. Its not a wormhole? oh well, pick another, try again. Welcome to working for what you want while risking something at the same time. let me guess, you came in thru highsec?
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Juan Valhdez whaaa, ccp is making me work for something.(that kinda what the entire thread reads like) Taking a look at your screenshot... so what? pick one, move probes closer, scan smaller range. Its not a wormhole? oh well, pick another, try again. Welcome to working for what you want while risking something at the same time. let me guess, you came in thru highsec? You sir are a knob. If you had even a single clue about what you are saying you would know that all the sites vanish on the next scan so how exactly would you track the ones you have already investigated? Magic, draw on your screen, l33t hax0r tr1k5? please do tell us all! Let me guess you came in from the ASBO wing? -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Jalum Krayal	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Juan Valhdez Taking a look at your screenshot... so what? pick one, move probes closer, scan smaller range. Its not a wormhole? oh well, pick another, try again. Yeah...because they all just sit there and don't shift or move or change, amirite?
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.11 19:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Jalum Krayal Originally by: Juan Valhdez Taking a look at your screenshot... so what? pick one, move probes closer, scan smaller range. Its not a wormhole? oh well, pick another, try again. Yeah...because they all just sit there and don't shift or move or change, amirite? Na mate, I'm down with the kiddies, he's drawing markers and dots on the TFT :-) 'cus it's l33y i'nit -CJ Originally by: Nogap toosmall and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
Ione Jantrit University of Caille	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:11:00 - [26] Originally by: Jalum Krayal Originally by: Kyra Felann This is because exploration sites are always within 4 AU of a planet. So use that fact to filter out sites that are probably exploration sites and look for things not within 4 AU of a planet. How does one look for things that are not within 4AU of a planet? Surround it with probes that are 4.01AU from the planet (and every other planet)? I understand the gist of what you're saying, but on what basis do you look at a list of 20 signatures and decide which are within 4au of a planet and which aren't? The results are inclusive, so I first have to take note of all signatures, then reduce the probes down to 4AU around each planet and try to figure out which ones disappeared? If you have a good way of doing this with 20 signatures amongst a cluster of planets, I'd love to hear it. Some things don't come with an "Easy" button included.
Alora Venoda GalTech Whiskey Creek Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Cryten Jones I totaly agree with the OP, I too am stuck in W-Space due to the sheer number of sites I find. My sugestion is that when you get your scan results you should be able to place a 'pin' in it so you know you have scanned it down already. Would go like this 1. System scan find a load of sites 2. Scan down a bunch to the point where they have types of ladar, gav etc etc. 3. Right click and 'place pin' 4. Rescan, pinned locations stay with the name they had This allows you to scan down things and mark them as 'known' so that you can narrow your search. The push pin data can be wipped on session change so that it's not possible to re-use the data. Just my idea of now to meet in the middle on the features. -CJ if you find them and fly to them it does this for you, in addition to your own bookmarks. but i agree something like this is needed badly. i find myself using extra probes as placeholders when i want to keep track of what sigs i have already found. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Minsc Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:30:00 - [28] Wow people REALLY need to learn how to use the deep space probes. They're not just usefull for finding out how many signatures there are in a system, they can be used to find out WHAT signatures are there. Pro Tip: If you're getting dozens of sig hits with a set of 4 probes set to 4 AU, drop a deep space probe in the middle of them set to 4 au and temporarily disable the 4 core probes, run a scan and at that range you'll know EXACTLY what signatures are in that blob of them, you can even continue to narrow down your search to 2 AU, then turn your core probes back on and surround the signature bubble found by the deep space probe. That should save you enormous amounts of time when trying to find specific types of signatures.
Juan Valhdez	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:38:00 - [29] Originally by: Cryten Jones You sir are a knob. If you had even a single clue about what you are saying you would know that all the sites vanish on the next scan so how exactly would you track the ones you have already investigated? Magic, draw on your screen, l33t hax0r tr1k5? please do tell us all! Let me guess you came in from the ASBO wing? -CJ Read the post above me, knob. Im sorry you fail at scanning while the rest of us really arent having those issues beacuse we... gasp, understand scanning mechanics.
Juan Valhdez	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Cryten Jones Na mate, I'm down with the kiddies, he's drawing markers and dots on the TFT :-) 'cus it's l33y i'nit -CJ and your wrong. #2 pencil, crt.



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