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tedivm	Posted - 2009.03.12 05:23:00 - [1] I have never been so close to just canceling my subscription (or ripping my hair out) as I have over this last expansion. I just want to go through a damn wormhole. Sounds simple enough right? Well, we all know that wasn't happening the day of the release itself. After three downloads (over a gig each) I finally managed to snag the full version and install it fresh (4+ gigs) and log in. Sort of. See, apparently the system I was in was too busy. So instead of logging in I got to stare at a screen saying "Entering game as tedivm" until the system gave me a disconnect notice. Eventually CCP got their act together an hacked up a solution- upon logging in I was given the option of being relocated to a different system (but I couldn't choose to bring any items or anything from my hanger). Okay, whatever. I'm finally in the game, even though its a day later. Time to play! Only not. For some reason the new scan probe launcher would disappear whenever I left the dock. Yup, just gone. It would show up again when I docked, and when I hit show info on my ship it was listed as there- but no, the little button to actually launch the scan probed just wouldn't show up. At this point I just signed off, because this was just not worth the stress. Games are supposed to relax people, which clearly this wasn't doing. But dammit, I just want to see a wormhole already. So I logged back in. This time, by some miracle, I was even able to launch probes! So I look around, do my thing, and find something. A wormhole no less. I get the strengh thing up to the point where I am close to actually being able to see it. I move things around, I'm getting exciting, things are looking up, and I run another analysis. Only once the analysis is finished, only two of my probes become visible again. I can see the circles from the other ones, but there is no place to move them around. I have no way to adjust them, but they're still somehow there. Just not. Oh, and they also disappeared from my scanner window (as did the entire "probes in space" window), and when I tried to retrieve all my active probes it gives me an error saying I have the maximum number of probes out already. Yup, apparently trying to remove a probe magically puts more in space. So there I am, finally close to the wormhole, but not close enough. I can't move my probes, I can't retrieve my probes, and I can't launch any more probes. This update has been, by far, the most botched update I have seen from a product in awhile. I'm not just saying this as some random gamer- I own a software company, one which sends out updates on an almost daily basis. Hell, I even use the same content distribution network as these guys. From what I can see though it looks like this product was rushed through with entirely too little testing. Even that, however, isn't the worst part about this in my opinion. Crap happens. What annoys me is how little of a response CCP has been giving. Yesterday I went through four pages of threads on the update issues (up to five today) and the only people talking where customers. CCP talks about how they read these threads, but its meaningless unless they get involved in the conversations. This isn't limited to just these update issues either. When the linux client was dropped we got a nice post from CCP, and then nothing. People brought up ideas for better WINE support (since most of the people using linux didn't bother with the official EVE client anyways), and it was a great opportunity for CCP to at least talk to a segment of their audience. Instead there are a bunch of volunteers doing what CCP should have done in the first place- creating scripts, giving support, even making a wiki. I know this rant got a little off target, but so be it. Even with the CSM it seems CCP has a huge disconnect between the customers and the company, and while that may be okay some of the time it really hurts in situations where things are working less than perfectly, such as with this update.
Daan Sai Polytrope	Posted - 2009.03.12 05:28:00 - [2] I know this is just adding to forum spam... but: I downloaded the client during the extended downtime, logged in on day 1, got my probes and tried them out (with a couple of display glitches that I persisted with). I've scanned down a wormhole and am still exploring W-space as I type. Smooth as. I think it is fair to guess that with 100s of thousands of cases there are going to be some bad luck stories. ( BTW don't log off in Jita ) Take a step back, wait for the dust to settle and try again, it will work, really. Cheers Daan
ThaDollaGenerale The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.12 05:31:00 - [3] Bugs? In a patch for a game with the scope and complexity of Eve? never!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.12 05:32:00 - [4] Edited by: Akita T on 12/03/2009 05:34:07 I blame Atari and the box. This expansion was the largest AND the most rushed of all patches in EVE history. First off, the box DIDN'T contain the patch, so all those who bought the box had to do the download too. Reason ? Obviously, most of the graphic assets weren't ready soon enough to be entered on the "master" of the DVD. You could already see just how rushed this was from this alone. Second, the system as a whole is still more unstable as it ever was after a major patch. Third, there was nearly no "balancing" for T3 ships. Fourth, the skill queue wasn't properly tested, and even if some of the bugs from SiSi are out of it, some still remain. I could go on and on about it but really, why bother. Bottom line is, I seriously doubt many of the guys that actually bought the box are NEW customers, and of the few that ARE new customers, I doubt many would stick around. Congratulations, CCP&Atari. You managed to do what CCP alone couldn't have, namely botch it up in a really bad way. P.S. Well, I make it sound catastrophic, but it isn't ALL that bad. If you ignore the new content, you probably won't have many problems, and if you only use the skill queue when you're offline (and watch it closely while online), you don't have many problems either. But compared to OTHER patches before, this one is a disaster. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
SSgt Sniper Gallente legion of qui Southern Connection	Posted - 2009.03.12 05:33:00 - [5] In before CIHYS Also, As much as it pains me to say it, welcome to EVE expansions. And they did used to participate more in discussing problems on these forums. Then it turned into any text from a dev is godspeak and cannot ever be contradicted, even by a more senior dev. Then, as you might logically expect, they got really quiet....... A lot of things cannot be fully vetted by the bughunters and sis crowd until it hits Tranquility sadly, and I'm sorry you've hit a few of these snags. Bug report them and withing a week or twoo this will be sorted out. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
Clinically Gallente ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.12 05:42:00 - [6] Your stuff, may I has it? ________________ ANZAC Recruitment - NOW OPEN!
Cors It's A Trap	Posted - 2009.03.12 05:45:00 - [7] The thing is guys, and the vets will attest to this, the week or three after a major content addition is ALWAYS bug ridden. during that time you mission at your own risk. You Rat at your own risk. You PVP at your own risk. You Mine at your own risk. You explore at your own risk. Then they get the new bugs worked out, things smooth out, and things are back to normal for 4-8 months. Get used to this. It happens with every MMO that does major content additions. Just chill, do what you can. If you can't get in game, go rent a movie, take the wife to a show, take the gf out to diner... whatever. Chill. Relax. Log in, change your skills, log out. YOu were TOLD many many many many MANY times to set a long skill. that means a 20+ Day skill. If you did this, you're good for half the month. It may SUCK, but that's life. Yes you pay for the game, yes you are entitled to service, but you DID agree to not count hardware/software upgrade bugs against that. Relax, and wait for it to smooth out. SIG: FULL WINDOWS CLIENT 1.9gig
tedivm	Posted - 2009.03.12 05:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 12/03/2009 05:34:07 I blame Atari and the box. This expansion was the largest AND the most rushed of all patches in EVE history. You can really feel the rushed part. Honestly, if CCP came out and said "hey, give us another couple of days to work on this" I would have been fine. I don't mind waiting for a good product. CCP, seriously, start having conversations with us. Respond to this thread, even if its just a "hello, we're working on things". Just acknowledge that you are aware that you're clients are suffering. Then lets start chatting on a way to improve the way expansions are made or tested so these kinds of things don't happen. I know you guys are all big into the scrum now, so why not abandon some of the monolithic nature of your expansions, at least when it comes to actual features. How much less stressed would you guys be if the skill queue changes came out a few weeks ago and where debugged on their own, and then the new wormhole mechanics, and then tech 3 ships? You'll still have enough in the ways of new content to pull out the big expansions and marketing blitzes, but instead of one big update toss a few small ones along so you're not being forced to deal with a thousand bugs at once. I'm obviously simplifying things a little bit here, but do I really need to explain the benefits of iterative development to you guys?
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.03.12 06:00:00 - [9] Originally by: tedivm Originally by: Akita T I blame Atari and the box. This expansion was the largest AND the most rushed of all patches in EVE history. You can really feel the rushed part. Honestly, if CCP came out and said "hey, give us another couple of days to work on this" I would have been fine. I don't mind waiting for a good product. Absolutely. I wrote exactly this 2 months ago already when there was no sign on the test server of the new expansion. There was just not enough time to test the stuff (and fix it). The devs can't be blamed and I think they did extremely well under such a tight schedule with so much work to do. However, this tight schedule - the biggest expansion ever by far, the most gamechanging and unbalancing expansion since years, the biggest impact on playerbase - was a severe mistake by ccp management. You can't squeeze the work of 6 months into 3 months time. That just doesn't work. But well, it is not my business but CCP's, it is their decision. I just don't think it is very clever. My real question is: why such a tight schedule? I think everyone would have had been happy and fine if the expansion would had been out one or two months later but then fully working, much better tested and balanced. Why the insane rush? What was the reason for that? And if you say that you want still two expansions each year (i wouldn't mind one big and good one instead of two bugged ones, half-finshed lacking tons of content), then maybe make the expansions next time smaller?
Sc00tah	Posted - 2009.03.12 06:02:00 - [10] Edited by: Sc00tah on 12/03/2009 06:03:43 Honestly, its understandable that you are frustrated... But.. Welcome to mmo content release. It is like this in every other mmo when they do a major content update. In fact it is to be expected. Threatening to cancel your account means nothing to ccp at this moment in time. In fact im sure the moderators have a good chuckle everytime they read one of these threads. So save your breath, calm down, m e l l ow. A solution to your woe's will arive shortly in the form of a small update.
Necrosmith Gallente Chunder Corp	Posted - 2009.03.12 06:20:00 - [11] The op must be new to mmos, and mmo patch days in particular. Welcome! ---- For those of you who claim to support the troops and oppose national health care, I have a question. Why do you insist on punishing our veterans with free health care?
tedivm	Posted - 2009.03.12 06:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Necrosmith The op must be new to mmos, and mmo patch days in particular. Welcome! Uhh, wrong. I've been gaming for awhile now, and I'm familiar with how things should work. When Tranquility came out I had no where near the amount of issues I've had with this one. At the same time, just because something is messed up in the past doesn't mean it should continue to be in the future. "Oh, it doesn't work, whatever" is not an acceptable answer in any business, and the businesses that don't realize this get edged out by those that do.
Enthral	Posted - 2009.03.12 06:31:00 - [13] I think we can all see there are issues, but in the scheme of things, this was one of the better deployments. And I don't mean that for EVE and CCP, but from MMO's in general. This is the first time CCP has tried to do a deployment with a boxed set at the same time and on a fixed schedule. It was a massive deployment, yet we've had no server crashes or corruption. Since it is physically impossible for CCP to mirror the production environment with their test environment, I'm amazed things aren't worse. I honestly expected EVE to be unplayable for at least a solid week. As far as communicating with the users, I certainly wish there was a bit more of that right now, but the US retail release is Thursday, and I'm sure they would rather concentrate on fixing the critical issues--particularly the performance problems--before then. There are two things that I am really annoyed at, however: the skill queue, and the patching problems. We knew about the problems with the skill queue on SiSi. They should have disabled it for the release until they were sure it was working properly. It could have been re-enabled as a patch in a week. We also had constant problems with the patcher on SiSi. I'm not at all shocked at the patching issues some people are having now. That really needed to have been addressed before the release was attempted. Anyway, quit if you want, but by the end of the week, I'm sure things will be a lot more stable. That's how it always is with EVE, as well as any other MMO I've been a part of. Hehe. I used to be an ARK on Anarchy Online. You want to talk about communication problems and evil releases? Ugh! -Enthral
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.03.12 06:45:00 - [14] My own experience has been a bit weird with the congestion problems around Jita. I have no idea what is going on there. However, just by looking at the front page of GD I can tell this is one of the smoothest patches ever. There's no 40-page threadnaughts about poses being broken, clones not working, or almost anything else. The biggest problem people have had seems to be downloading the patch at all, and even then we are talking less than a hundred people out of many many thousands. There will always be one or two people that have a run of bad luck, but overall the level of forum hysteria has been very low. Akita's dribbling on the subject is just desperation from a whine-addict.
Khalm Pyydys	Posted - 2009.03.12 06:48:00 - [15] Thats whole lot of moaning... Well Ill give you this advice. Just shutdown your computer, go outside and enjoy the weather. Come back in a week or two. Everything should be working by then. or Come to tintah system and smack talk in local with me . There is no point trying to frustrate your self by playing couple of days after big expansion. ---
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2009.03.12 06:52:00 - [16] Originally by: tedivm Uhh, wrong. I've been gaming for awhile now, and I'm familiar with how things should work. When Tranquility came out I had no where near the amount of issues I've had with this one. Tranquility never 'came out'... it's been the live server forever. What you just said doesn't make any sense at all.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.12 06:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Tiirae just by looking at the front page of GD I can tell this is one of the smoothest patches ever. There's no 40-page threadnaughts about poses being broken, clones not working, or almost anything else. The biggest problem people have had seems to be downloading the patch at all, and even then we are talking less than a hundred people out of many many thousands. [...]Akita's dribbling on the subject is just desperation from a whine-addict. On the first couple of pages in various subforums... I see people complaining a lot about the skillqueue (that it doesn't work while online, that it caused them to LOSE SP, that it doesn't work properly in other words), I see people that have problem using modules (probe launchers vanishing and stuff like that), I see people complaining that coupling arrays work differently now so that you risk usually losing 1 hour of reactions every time you work with the silos, I see people complaining the scanner system is a visual mess and they can barely find anything in a "signature rich" environment, I see people complaining that the FREAKING MAP is behaving erratically, jumping from 3D to 2D, moving nasty, unable to select stuff on it, I see people complaining that the directional scanner is no longer displaying things that were useful (even if you probably don't care about the things that were removed), I see people that complain THEY CAN'T LOG INTO JITA WHEN JITA IS NOT EVEN AT 500 PEOPLE INSIDE shortly after we had 1000+ users not even flustering the system there before the patch... ... and that's just the tip of the iceberg so far. So yeah, real smooth expansion, I can't see what I'm complaining about _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
tedivm Flight of the Phoenix Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2009.03.12 07:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: tedivm Uhh, wrong. I've been gaming for awhile now, and I'm familiar with how things should work. When Tranquility came out I had no where near the amount of issues I've had with this one. Tranquility never 'came out'... it's been the live server forever. What you just said doesn't make any sense at all. I meant Trinity, not Tranquility, my apologies for the misunderstanding. My point was that those previous expansions (Trinity, Quantum Rise) didn't have nearly as much of a rushed feel about them as this did.
tedivm Flight of the Phoenix Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2009.03.12 07:09:00 - [19] Oh, and for reference my login issues where not in Jita. Rens was not running very well, so CCP capped it at 200 users.
Samuel Rockslayer Research Industries	Posted - 2009.03.12 08:04:00 - [20] Did you login and try it out the test server? The more people who login a submit bug reports the more this stuff gets fixed before release. I spent more time on sisi over the last 2 weeks than on TQ.
OMGJITA	Posted - 2009.03.12 08:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Daan Sai ( BTW don't log off in Jita ) Take a step back, wait for the dust to settle and try again, it will work, really. Cheers Daan If its was just Jita i dont think many of us would have a issue, its HUGE amounts of high sec. Nullsec seems ok atm. CCP need to speak up about the server problems, there silence is only p1ssing people off
Ralle030583 Eve Service Corp	Posted - 2009.03.12 08:23:00 - [22] yeah but the problems with skill queue, reseting skills to 0, for example was already a problem at test server and bugreported server times and posted also posted about it development forum...
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.03.12 08:26:00 - [23] Welcome to the patch day blues. Eve is famous for them though they tend to fix 90% of the moar annoying problems within a few weeks or even less. That last 10% though become features. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
TimMc Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.12 08:54:00 - [24] Don't know what you guys are talking about. I got the patch within an hour of Tranquillity coming back on and was probing instantly fine. Obviously 8 hours later when all of you logged in, it went to ****.
Kaptain Kruncher	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Akita T So yeah, real smooth expansion, I can't see what I'm complaining about I can see what you are complaining about. As a matter of fact, in a majority of posts I read you are complaining about something. You are a classic misery poster. A T2 Misery Poster- and now with the expansion, you have T3 Misery Posting possibilities if you use invention. You should be happy there are bugs in this release, I would feel bad if you were robbed of any chance to complain. Why don't you do us all a favor and just quit already. It's a software upgrade. Ever seen a software upgrade that didn't have problems? CCP has had this thing on SiSi for quite some time. Players have tested and bug reported during the whole process. CCP made quite a few changes based on those testers comments. What more can you ask for? To think it would be other than it is is an unrealistic expectation. Like others have already posted- Go do something else for a few days. Me? I'm going skiing.
Micia Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:16:00 - [26] Originally by: tedivm I own a software company, one which sends out updates on an almost daily basis. Come on, man. You're whining about a few days of patch fixins, when the company you say you own needs to put out "updates" every day? _______ Liberating Vegas '09!
Surly Bob Usagichan Enterprises	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:23:00 - [27] Originally by: tedivm You can really feel the rushed part. Honestly, if CCP came out and said "hey, give us another couple of days to work on this" I would have been fine. I don't mind waiting for a good product. You might not mind, but CCP's new overlords at Atari would.
Billybob Braggins	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:33:00 - [28] Originally by: tedivm Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: tedivm Uhh, wrong. I've been gaming for awhile now, and I'm familiar with how things should work. When Tranquility came out I had no where near the amount of issues I've had with this one. Tranquility never 'came out'... it's been the live server forever. What you just said doesn't make any sense at all. I meant Trinity, not Tranquility, my apologies for the misunderstanding. My point was that those previous expansions (Trinity, Quantum Rise) didn't have nearly as much of a rushed feel about them as this did. boot.ini
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:36:00 - [29] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Tiirae just by looking at the front page of GD I can tell this is one of the smoothest patches ever. There's no 40-page threadnaughts about poses being broken, clones not working, or almost anything else. The biggest problem people have had seems to be downloading the patch at all, and even then we are talking less than a hundred people out of many many thousands. [...]Akita's dribbling on the subject is just desperation from a whine-addict. On the first couple of pages in various subforums... I see people complaining a lot about the skillqueue (that it doesn't work while online, that it caused them to LOSE SP, that it doesn't work properly in other words), I see people that have problem using modules (probe launchers vanishing and stuff like that), I see people complaining that coupling arrays work differently now so that you risk usually losing 1 hour of reactions every time you work with the silos, I see people complaining the scanner system is a visual mess and they can barely find anything in a "signature rich" environment, I see people complaining that the FREAKING MAP is behaving erratically, jumping from 3D to 2D, moving nasty, unable to select stuff on it, I see people complaining that the directional scanner is no longer displaying things that were useful (even if you probably don't care about the things that were removed), I see people that complain THEY CAN'T LOG INTO JITA WHEN JITA IS NOT EVEN AT 500 PEOPLE INSIDE shortly after we had 1000+ users not even flustering the system there before the patch... ... and that's just the tip of the iceberg so far. So yeah, real smooth expansion, I can't see what I'm complaining about can't agree more ... this is the first expansion I actively tried to hunt for bugs on the test server. filed 3 even during the limited testing I have done. found a lot more just did not have time to work on them properly. the Devs did what they could. closing to M10, I was unable to keep pace with new patches :-) many things were ironed out, but a lot still remain in the game. I guess we will see APO 1.01 in about 2 weeks from now, then APO 1.02 in 2 weeks again. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
moola Band Of Frogs	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:39:00 - [30] Anyone who was on SISI could see the rushed nature of the expansion. I was gonna start a thread about all the dropped features, then i was gonna make one about all the bugs that would make it from SISI to Tranq, but whats the point?, the Mothermoons would have shot the thread down. T3 ships have had very little balancing done so expect nerfs to come, here's a hint DONT TELL ANYONE IF YOU FIND A GOOD SETUP
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:43:00 - [31] Originally by: Samuel Rockslayer Did you login and try it out the test server? The more people who login a submit bug reports the more this stuff gets fixed before release. I spent more time on sisi over the last 2 weeks than on TQ. No, because CCP didn't have a working SiSi client (for Mac) until three days before the patch was deployed on TQ… I managed to find and report one bug, but that was all there was time for. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Rehtom Lamina Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:47:00 - [32] I downloaded the whole client, remotly (from work) on my home pc, got awesome speeds and had it installed and ready for servers to go up. servers went up and it added the little additional patch ontop, logged in (still via remote desktop) and ensured i was still training skills correctly. decided to make a small skill que on both my chars. logged off of remote desktop and finished my work day. Got home, was still logged in, didnt log off in a trade hub, i figured this would be common sence tbh. Played with my cov ops on both my chars, no issues. have not lost any skill training time on either char, online or offline. Game runs very well both on my laptop and on my pc with 2 clients running, i am not running top spec machines either. I would understand people complaining if they charged for these big expansions (no, your sub dosnt count, you would still pay the sub if there were no expansions), but they dont and all they get in return is aload of kids complaining and a small few who appreciate the time taken on the expansion. I have never seen another game with this level of dedication and support from its developers. CCP owe you nothing, stop complaining and do your homework! :P I am gratful to CCP for this newest expansion even if i dont get huge ammounts of time to play like i used to.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:52:00 - [33] Nice sentiment Rehtom but I would imagine the bulk of all these whine threads have been queued up in notepad for days or weeks to all be poasted on release day and the days after. We have a few people here at the eve-o forums who take thier trolling to superhuman levels. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Shopping FTW	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:52:00 - [34] In response to the OP: Welcome to a Major Eve Patch. Be glad you can log in to change skills. When they tell you "set a long skill", it is NOT just because of the long 'planned' down time, it is because bugs after the patch might mean it could be a week before you can get into game. As has been said again and again and again and again........by almost all veterans, EXPECT the days and even WEEKS following a major patch to have some bug/playability 'issues'
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:53:00 - [35] Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher It's a software upgrade. Ever seen a software upgrade that didn't have problems? Yes. Quote: CCP has had this thing on SiSi for quite some time. Players have tested and bug reported during the whole process. CCP made quite a few changes based on those testers comments. As they SHOULD have. Quote: What more can you ask for? Delay the expansion until it's MAJOR bug free, and feature-complete ? Of course you can't fix all minor bugs in time, but then again CCP has a knack for "we fixed it so it's barely workable now, let's leave it alone, now what other shiny crap can we come up with ?" _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Rehtom Lamina Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:54:00 - [36] Originally by: Zeba Nice sentiment Rehtom but I would imagine the bulk of all these whine threads have been queued up in notepad for days or weeks to all be poasted on release day and the days after. We have a few people here at the eve-o forums who take thier trolling to superhuman levels. lol I see what you mean, I guess if there were no issues to be exagerated or taken out of proportion most people would have to post constructive threads... god forbid.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.12 10:00:00 - [37] Originally by: Akita T Third, there was nearly no "balancing" for T3 ships. Why would that be a problem? It's going to be weeks before you'll see them on market. Sure, a handful of people might get them earlier, yet that is no reason for them to be well balanced immediately.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.12 10:03:00 - [38] Edited by: Akita T on 12/03/2009 10:07:35 Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Why would that be a problem? It's going to be weeks before you'll see them on market. Sure, a handful of people might get them earlier, yet that is no reason for them to be well balanced immediately. /facepalm Ok... let me rephrase that... Do you honestly believe ANY of the T3 stats will change this year ? I can almost bet there will be absolutely no changes whatsoever. And those last 2 promised subsystems variants out of the 5 planned ? MAYBE we'll get them this year, but I kind of doubt that. Also, one year from now, do you honestly think they will rebalance them properly ? And what exactly do you think the reaction of people owning 2+ bil ships that suddendly become crap will be ? Because they won't boost stuff that's prenerfed (see Black Ops) or heavily underpowered (see Stealth Bombers), instead they nerf them even further. So, no, they SHOULD have balanced them properly BEFORE introducing them. Because now, nobody will ever balance them properly any time soon. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Confuzer I	Posted - 2009.03.12 10:45:00 - [39] Edited by: Confuzer I on 12/03/2009 10:45:08 I also produce software, and I have the same feeling: this update was rushed. Although you can never find ALL bugs, some bug should've been found on the test server. For many of them though, realise it's because of desync, which is harder to test on the testserver. Next time maybe, ask everyone to try the testserver first :)... I am willing to install it to help ccp find bugs, if it helps getting a smoother patch.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.03.12 10:58:00 - [40] When CCP was doing their own thing the whole niche idea and the "if you don't like it gtfo" 'bought' them credit with the loyal players who went "yeah well, they make mistakes but that's part of the reason why we love them". Now they want to be with the big guys, have the big money, choose the more mainstream gameplay, focus on bringing in more new players rather than retaining older ones and have a big publisher. They will be expected to act as a big, wealthy mainstraim developer like (oh, I dunno) Blizzard, they will be expected to run stuff more flawless. No more friendly "oops, we deleted boot.ini" ****. You want to be mainstream? Then get ready to be called on your, still, niche/amateuristic approach to things. Self-proclaimed idiot
CanIHave YourStuff	Posted - 2009.03.12 11:10:00 - [41] Its a patch for an online game. It's still more or less playable, just don't be running missions or doing something too risky in something you dont want to lose. Take patch week as an opportunity to check out some other elements of the game and quit whining. Also, please find my char name in game and gief stuff.
ServantOfMask Minmatar The New Order. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.12 11:31:00 - [42] I wish to echo the previous posters sentiments with the least amount of asshattery... Stuff Contract it Go on to a new Game (preferably an offline game) with my heartfelt thanks for your Stuff. PS: with Stuff I mean ALL eve-ly possessions you may have, up to and including your obviously unused ccp-issued stash of PATIENCE! Thank You in advance for all the Trolling and/or Stuff
meat vapour	Posted - 2009.03.12 11:37:00 - [43] everytime i read a post from Akita T, i just want to cut myself
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.12 11:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Confuzer I Although you can never find ALL bugs, some bug should've been found on the test server. The problem is that many of the bugs were found on the test server, but they didn't have time to fix them before the whole thing went live. Apocrypha came rather late to SiSi, even on the Windows side (as mentioned, it got a whole 3 days worth of testing on the Mac side), and while it might have been enough to find the bugs, it wasn't enough to find them and fix them. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Drykor Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.03.12 11:58:00 - [45] To all the people who are echo'ing the lines 'yeah this is normal, it's mmo patch day, this stuff happens with big software releases'. NO it's NOT! Major bugs in a release like this with paying customers are NOT normal and are in fact ridiculous to expect from a large IT company these days. It's ****ing me off badly that they have so little respect for us that they expect us to alpha-test their product not only on the test servers but on the main server as well.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.03.12 12:03:00 - [46] Originally by: meat vapour everytime i read a post from Akita T, i just want to cut myself Don't let me stop you _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Grez Minmatar Core Contingency Ignition.	Posted - 2009.03.12 12:08:00 - [47] Some things just don't show up on SiSi, and no amount of testing makes them come to light. Get a clue about game development. --- Have a rawr on me.
Mistress Aranata	Posted - 2009.03.12 12:19:00 - [48] My corp were warned to prepare long skills for training, not expect eve to be up and running properly for a few days etc. So far we haven't had any problems whatsoever. Early days yet, but it's a lot better than some eve patchdays i've seen.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.12 12:28:00 - [49] Originally by: Grez Some things just don't show up on SiSi, and no amount of testing makes them come to light. And what about the things that did come to light, but weren't addressed? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Cosmar Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.03.12 12:28:00 - [50] You're talking about the guys that made computers unbootable with a previous patch. This last one didn't seem that bad to me
Grez Minmatar Core Contingency Ignition.	Posted - 2009.03.12 12:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Grez Some things just don't show up on SiSi, and no amount of testing makes them come to light. And what about the things that did come to light, but weren't addressed (eg. the catastrophically bugged skill queue)? What about the things that could have been tested, but werent (eg. T3 balancing)? What about the things that should have been tested, but werent (eg. the Mac client)? 1) The skill queue worked fine on SiSi. 2) T3 balancing was done. Hell, EVERYONE had max skills on the damn things when they logged in before the fleet test mirror. 3) Not enough players reported bugs under the Mac client. Bugs only get noticed when people bug report them - otherwise they go ignored by the people who need to see them (they cannot spend the entire day watching SiSi FD-M chat, or the forums). Again, people need to get a clue and actually participate in SiSi tests :D --- Have a rawr on me.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.12 12:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Grez 1) The skill queue worked fine on SiSi. Yes, and it works fine on TQ… for some. The queue bugs people are complaining about were observed and reported on SiSi. Quote: 2) T3 balancing was done. Hell, EVERYONE had max skills on the damn things when they logged in before the fleet test mirror. No, they were not. At no point did they do a call for "here, take all the parts for all the ships and build every conceivable setup you can think of and go at it." Quote: 3) Not enough players reported bugs under the Mac client. BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MAC CLIENT TO BUGREPORT FROM! Quote: Again, people need to get a clue and actually participate in SiSi tests :D They did (well, those who had a working client to use). It had no effect. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Grez Minmatar Core Contingency Ignition.	Posted - 2009.03.12 12:52:00 - [53] Edited by: Grez on 12/03/2009 12:54:35 Originally by: Tippia Yes, and it works fine on TQà for some. The queue bugs people are complaining about were observed and reported on SiSi. No, they were not. At no point did they do a call for "here, take all the parts for all the ships and build every conceivable setup you can think of and go at it." BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MAC CLIENT TO BUGREPORT FROM! They did (well, those who had a working client to use). It had no effect. I'm sorry, but I spent over a month on SiSi testing before Apoc even arrived, and you have shown an absolute ignorance towards any testing that has gone on. You have obviously not been on SiSi. If there was a bug report made on SiSi for the skill queue, then it has either not been filtered yet, or no-one made one. Posting it on the forums, or saying it in-game, does not count as a bug report. The people who need to see it, do not get to see it. This, this is the part which shows your absolute ignorance. EVERYONE who logged into SiSi for a couple of weeks had level 4 trained in all subsystems which got reimbursed when you relogged and if you lost them. Every market item was seeded at 100.00 isk. We had people flying in all sorts testing all fittings - there is a thread relating to the bonuses and testing of the ships. It went on, just because you didn't test SiSi when it was going on, does not mean it didn't. And there was a MAC client. You just had to download Mac Premium and patch it via the thread they created for it. Where on earth do you think the new premium Mac client came from? Before you open your mouth and state something else that is god-awfully untrue, I suggest you actually get first-hand experience before stating something. --- Have a rawr on me.
Lady Killjoy Gallente The Social Club The Sovereign Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.12 13:19:00 - [54] Originally by: Cors The thing is guys, and the vets will attest to this, the week or three after a major content addition is ALWAYS bug ridden. during that time you mission at your own risk. You Rat at your own risk. You PVP at your own risk. You Mine at your own risk. You explore at your own risk. Then they get the new bugs worked out, things smooth out, and things are back to normal for 4-8 months. Get used to this. It happens with every MMO that does major content additions. Just chill, do what you can. If you can't get in game, go rent a movie, take the wife to a show, take the gf out to diner... whatever. Chill. Relax. Log in, change your skills, log out. YOu were TOLD many many many many MANY times to set a long skill. that means a 20+ Day skill. If you did this, you're good for half the month. It may SUCK, but that's life. Yes you pay for the game, yes you are entitled to service, but you DID agree to not count hardware/software upgrade bugs against that. Relax, and wait for it to smooth out. QFT
Johnathan Walker Caldari Thunderbolts	Posted - 2009.03.12 13:25:00 - [55] You're going to hate me Tedivm... but... Have you tried clearing your cache? It's not a joke; I fixed a lot of weird issues post-patch.
SSgt Sniper Gallente legion of qui Southern Connection	Posted - 2009.03.12 13:33:00 - [56] Originally by: Billybob Braggins Originally by: tedivm Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: tedivm Uhh, wrong. I've been gaming for awhile now, and I'm familiar with how things should work. When Tranquility came out I had no where near the amount of issues I've had with this one. Tranquility never 'came out'... it's been the live server forever. What you just said doesn't make any sense at all. I meant Trinity, not Tranquility, my apologies for the misunderstanding. My point was that those previous expansions (Trinity, Quantum Rise) didn't have nearly as much of a rushed feel about them as this did. boot.ini QFT! ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.12 13:44:00 - [57] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/03/2009 13:47:06 Originally by: Johnathan Walker You're going to hate me Tedivm... but... Have you tried clearing your cache? It's not a joke; I fixed a lot of weird issues post-patch. It always does. I've been in contact directly, via forums or TS, with several hundred people (conservatively speaking) since the patch was released. The patch has, pretty much unanimously, performed perfectly. This includes the patching process, the Skill Que, and the new scanning system. Of course we are going to hear from the small group of people who do have problems, this is inevitable and they have every right to ask for help or point out problems... but ranting that the patch is virtually unplayable for everyone is gross exaggeration brought about by frustration. About the only problems that are universal are the issues with system load forcing some systems to have population caps. This in turn causes problems for people trying to log on in those systems, making them think their client is bugged. Every patch I have seen released since EVE began (and CCP developed the tools to cap the amount of people allowed in a particular system) has had similar issues for a short time after patch release. Not ideal, but understandable when the full weight of 50K people hits the new code for the first time. So relax, try to be helpful to people having issues. Some people have legitimate issues, others a lack of understanding on how to use new elements to the game. Just assure them that its not unusual and that it will just take a little time to get things sorted properly. ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.12 13:45:00 - [58] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 12/03/2009 13:46:13 Drat, double post ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.03.12 13:45:00 - [59] probing system needs some moderate work wormhole rats need scaling down otherwise all good
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.03.12 14:03:00 - [60] Originally by: ollobrains2 probing system needs some moderate work wormhole rats need scaling down otherwise all good Would you please stop posting a minimal amount of detail in threads? There is nothing wrong with sleepers, so long as the sleepers i fought on sisi during TQ's downtime are the ones that made it onto Tq. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Agent Unknown Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.12 14:25:00 - [61] /me replies to the thread title Can I have your stuff? ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Isabella Strauss IsTech Industries	Posted - 2009.03.12 15:30:00 - [62] I'm running the premium client on a 4 year old laptop and everything works here, no problems with the skillque or anything. It's always going to be the unhappy voices that are the loudest.
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.03.12 15:35:00 - [63] Its odd seeing all the complaints about bugs with this expansion because i've not seen any yet, my skill queue works flawlessly, my cov ops works perfectly, i have no graphical issues i can even cast my shadow on stargates, i've also not heard of many people ingame who have had issues either other than their comp not supporting SM2 and not being able to boot the client. While i do feel for you it would seem that the majority of people have no issues or aren't posting them, i would suggest those with issues get together and try to figure out what it is that that they all have in common to isolate the issue, i hope you unfortunate people manage to get things resolved as we want you back :) --------- Liberty Rogues Site[/center]
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.12 18:42:00 - [64] Edited by: Tippia on 12/03/2009 18:44:57 Originally by: Grez You have obviously not been on SiSi. Incorrect. Quote: If there was a bug report made on SiSi for the skill queue, then it has either not been filtered yet, or no-one made one. It's been reported. Quote: EVERYONE who logged into SiSi for a couple of weeks had level 4 trained in all subsystems which got reimbursed when you relogged and if you lost them. Every market item was seeded at 100.00 isk. We had people flying in all sorts testing all fittings - there is a thread relating to the bonuses and testing of the ships. It went on, just because you didn't test SiSi when it was going on, does not mean it didn't. I know this (which makes you wrong, again) and all of it is irrelevant. No call was made to test the different fittings. You show me one if this was the case. People randomly throwing things together for fun or to see the latest bling is not a balancing test. Quote: And there was a MAC client. You just had to download Mac Premium and patch it via the thread they created for it. See, now you're showing your ignorance about SiSi. Look at the Mac forums. Look at how much people have been asking for a client. Look at when those questions started. Yes, we had a (very) brief premium test… using the QR client. It was promptly shut down the day Apoc hit SiSi. Then there was nothing. Two attempts were made to deploy a Mac SiSi patch. Both failed. Your claim about the patching process is especially laughable since one of the failed attempts was precicely due to a faulty patcher. The fact is that we got a Mac Apoc client three days before the thing went live — on a saturday — and even then the patch was broken on the first attempt. So no, there was no Mac client to test Apoc. Quote: Before you open your mouth and state something else that is god-awfully untrue, I suggest you actually get first-hand experience before stating something. Yes, you really should, now stop assuming you do know about them before you've actually researched it. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Blight1 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.12 18:58:00 - [65] Originally by: Billybob Braggins Originally by: tedivm Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: tedivm Uhh, wrong. I've been gaming for awhile now, and I'm familiar with how things should work. When Tranquility came out I had no where near the amount of issues I've had with this one. Tranquility never 'came out'... it's been the live server forever. What you just said doesn't make any sense at all. I meant Trinity, not Tranquility, my apologies for the misunderstanding. My point was that those previous expansions (Trinity, Quantum Rise) didn't have nearly as much of a rushed feel about them as this did. boot.ini +1 i do remember having to reinstall windows... SWEEET NEW INTERNET SPACE SHIPS HOLY FU WAT THE F*&K
Mithos Victus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2009.03.12 19:52:00 - [66] So let's see... Major Trade Hubs Down - Good, now maybe the trade industry will reflect real life even more and spread out to meet demand. Since when was the last time you had to travel to teh state capitol to buy groceries, a new computer, or a new car at a competitive price? Scan Probing Issues - Sure, quirks, laggy solar system map, some needed touch ups, big deal, so you cannot experience 0.001% of the game's mechanical content on your account, you are not going to be solo farming any wormholes anytime soon, and unless you live under a rock you know someone who can both probe them down and is not having the same issues as you. Just like anything else in the instant gratification, tantrum throwing, populous ignorance and absolutely lack of actual reasoning ability, people let ideas think for them, rather than think of ideas. Welcome to the modern age where you can live your entire life without an original thought because there is always someone who has thought it for you already, so why bother. _______________________________________________ [...a lion lurking in the plain]
Hariya	Posted - 2009.03.12 21:02:00 - [67] What you are experiencing is normal. Do like the experienced players - put in a LONG skill training (10+ days at least) and come back in a week or two. Everything will be fixed by then.
Nobues Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.12 21:07:00 - [68] Originally by: tedivm I have that's how far I got before stopping, not going to read all your BS.. just.. CAN I have your stuff. Webhosting, teamspeak and Killboard for you, your corp, and your Alliance Click me for more info
Don Chitolito	Posted - 2009.03.12 22:03:00 - [69] Space... A harsh Mistress No one has heard your screams...............................
Black Phlanx Caldari Kingfisher Industries	Posted - 2009.03.12 22:08:00 - [70] Welcome to what the rest of the gamer world gets to deal with on nearly every single title that is released... I have money that Atari was banging down CCP's door to get the product out on the shelves by a certain date, and thus we have a broken product. Happens all the time, just keep your shirt on and wait for things to calm down.
Toro Hisan	Posted - 2009.03.12 22:30:00 - [71] Originally by: Black Phlanx Welcome to what the rest of the gamer world gets to deal with on nearly every single title that is released... I have money that Atari was banging down CCP's door to get the product out on the shelves by a certain date, and thus we have a broken product. Happens all the time, just keep your shirt on and wait for things to calm down. The sad part is how many people's lives revolve around online gaming and when something doesn't work, it's earth shattering to them. I've played way to many MMOs over the last several years to know that there never is a patch where problems don't arise. This patch affected nothing with the previous system of play.. I was still able to mission run, mine and pew pew a bit with no problems at all. I even explored a WH with a corp mate.... who btw, took the time to explore the test center and report the bugs he found. In then end, it all amounts to hicup. CCP will fix the problems like they always do........ relax, go outside and see the sun, interact with other humans outside of your computer... if you remember how :P
mcnuggetlol Amarr Outlandish Operations	Posted - 2009.03.12 22:39:00 - [72] I'm sure you'll be missed.

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