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Xenoxide Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.14 12:25:00 - [61] Edited by: Xenoxide on 14/03/2009 12:26:43 Edited by: Xenoxide on 14/03/2009 12:25:36 Originally by: Akor Flandres Big Macs are exclusive to McDonalds, does the fact I can buy one and give it to someone outside mean it's not exclusive to McDonalds at all? The ratio is 1:1 though. There are just as many Big Mac's in existence as there are ú1 coins used to purchase said Big Mac's. If everyone who bought the box truly did have access to the shuttle, there would need to be just as many boxes in existence as there would InterBus Shuttles. This wont be true though, as existing players who use the GTC code in the box won't get the shuttle. So there will be less shuttles in existence than boxes. So not everyone who buys the box will have access to the shuttle though, will they?
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.03.14 12:34:00 - [62] ^By their own choice. That doesnt change the fact that upon purchase, anyone who buys the box can access all of the content it contains.
Xenoxide Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.14 12:40:00 - [63] Originally by: Akor Flandres ^By their own choice. It's not through their own choice. If CCP had said when EVE was first released that there would be a box set in the future with a shuttle exclusive to new accounts, then people could have made the choice whether to subscribe then or wait until the box came out. As it stands though, people do have existing accounts, and nowhere did it say that if they bought the box they would not be able to use the shuttle without additional time and ISK to get it through in game trading. As you said however, nowhere did it say that they would. However, a large number of people have interpreted it that way, hence why I think that the OFT would be interested in this case if someone brought it to them. And I don't think they'd lose either. In addition, if your interpretation was how CCP intended it, then by nature the shuttle wouldn't be purely Exclusive to the box.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.03.14 12:41:00 - [64] Originally by: Akor Flandres Originally by: Xenoxide Originally by: Akor Flandres WTB photograph of BOX where it explicitly says shuttle can be claimed by existing accounts. WTB photograph of box where it says shuttle cannot be claimed by existing accounts. So if it says neither, why is your interpretation correct and mine wrong? Hmm? There are laws, that demand all relevant information, that might influence the decision to purchase the product, has to be made clear to the consumer. In unclear cases, it is usually judged against the party that produced the product. And by unclear I mean the info available could easily lead to wrong conclusions, not unclear as in the consumer couldn't be arsed to read the info that was clearly available. Not that it matters much, since everyone buying the box can actually get all the content, if they wish to do so. Still, if so many people are confused how the special offer actually works, your box design team should do some improvements on the next release.
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.03.14 12:45:00 - [65] I look forward to y'all coming back and celebrating your class action victory via the OFT here. Good luck!
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.03.14 12:46:00 - [66] Edited by: Pottsey on 14/03/2009 12:46:37 Akor Flandres said " That doesnt change the fact that upon purchase, anyone who buys the box can access all of the content it contains." As I said before I cannot access all the content with my current account. The box didn't disclose half the content was restricted to me. That is false and misleading advertising. It doesn't matter if I can make a new account up. I bought the box as the box said all the content was accessible to my old account, it said this default as there was no smallprint saying otherwise and there should have been smallprint if the content was restricted. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.03.14 12:47:00 - [67] Originally by: Mors Magne Solution: create new account using the boxed set. Then create a contract and transfer it to your main character. Easy Indeed. ... and just to be clear, make it a private contract. *Let My People Go*
Xenoxide Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.14 12:48:00 - [68] Edited by: Xenoxide on 14/03/2009 12:48:45 Originally by: Destination SkillQueue ...since everyone buying the box can actually get all the content, if they wish to do so. That's my point. It shouldn't be a case of "should they wish to do so". It is being advertised on the box, so it should come in the box. It shouldn't need additional expenditure of time and ISK. That's like buying a ú10 iTunes card, and going to redeem it on iTunes and it saying that it needs an additional ú5 processing fee (Not that it does, this is merely an example). Where did it say that on the card? According to Akor Flandres, it didn't say it didn't need an additional ú5, so it's fine.
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.03.14 13:11:00 - [69] Quote: I bought the box as the box said all the content was accessible to my old account You're a liar. Stop lying. It does NOT explicitly state that all content is accessible by existing accounts.
Xenoxide Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.14 13:22:00 - [70] Edited by: Xenoxide on 14/03/2009 13:24:37 Originally by: Akor Flandres It does NOT explicitly state that all content is accessible by existing accounts. And it doesn't say otherwise either. Not to mention you cut off the rest of his sentence and quoted him out of context.

Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.03.14 13:23:00 - [71] Akor Flandres said " You're a liar. Stop lying. It does NOT explicitly state that all content is accessible by existing accounts". Yes it is stated old accounts get the content. There is a list of content you get. The shuttle is in that list. There is no small print saying there is a hidden restriction so according to advertising laws and rules the shuttle should be available for old accounts. When there is a list of content on a box you get all content unless otherwise stated in smallprint. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.03.14 13:32:00 - [72] No, it lists the content that is accessible in the box, right? Anyone who buys the box, can access that content. Just because you don't like the method in which you access it, doesn't mean that isn't the case. The content is accessible to ALL people who purchase the box. If you want the shuttle, create an account and trade it to your character.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.03.14 13:40:00 - [73] Akor Flandres said " No, it lists the content that is accessible in the box, right? Anyone who buys the box, can access that content. Just because you don't like the method in which you access it, doesn't mean that isn't the case. ..." The content is only accessible is a limited way. There are restrictions to the way the contented is accessed. Those restrictions should be disclosed to the buyer as the restrictions effect if the buyer would buy the box or not. "Failure to Disclose It is considered false advertising under the Lanham Act if a representation is "untrue as a result of the failure to disclose a material fact." Therefore, false advertising can come from both misstatements and partially correct statements that are misleading because they do not disclose something the consumer should know." The box did not disclose the restrictions the consumer should know about. The box lists content that can be used with old account with content that cannot be used with old accounts without saying only half list is for old accounts. The list is a partially correct statement that is misleading hence its false advertising. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank
Brigitte Helm Minmatar Flying Fox Industries Motivated and Determined	Posted - 2009.03.14 14:20:00 - [74] Edited by: Brigitte Helm on 14/03/2009 14:21:34 I quote from page 5 of the inclosed manual "Please Note: Exclusive Quick Start items are only made available to customers who create a new EVE online account using the supplied game time code. Codes applied to existing accounts will only recieve 60 days of game time." Just like any other game there are terms and conditions inside the box some times. [edit: page number] Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev. Make Eve fun....
Frug Repo Industries	Posted - 2009.03.14 14:31:00 - [75] Originally by: Brigitte Helm I quote from page 5 of the inclosed manual "Please Note: Exclusive Quick Start items are only made available to customers who create a new EVE online account using the supplied game time code. Codes applied to existing accounts will only recieve 60 days of game time." Just like any other game there are terms and conditions inside the box some times. [edit: page number] 1) The word is 'enclosed' 2) Putting the information in a manual inside the box... Can you see how the OP would still have a problem? - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor
Brigitte Helm Minmatar Flying Fox Industries Motivated and Determined	Posted - 2009.03.14 14:34:00 - [76] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Brigitte Helm [edit: page number] 1) The word is 'enclosed' 2) Putting the information in a manual inside the box... Can you see how the OP would still have a problem? I understand why he would have a issue with it. But it is standard practice. Most packaging has the EULA enclosed inside the box. Same principle. If you buy it and are not happy send it back with a refund. If you use the card without reading the internal packaging your fault for not reading it Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev. Make Eve fun....
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.03.14 14:35:00 - [77] Then send your **ing box back and get a refund. You're just being semantics *s. The truth is that anyone who buys the box can access and use the content it contains. You have no case. Send it back and get a refund if you're not happy, or use the **ing GTC which is worth the cost of the box on your main.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.03.14 14:45:00 - [78] Akor Flandres said " The truth is that anyone who buys the box can access and use the content it contains. You have no case." There is a case how can you say that after the laws I showed you? A lot of shops do not let you send back opened games. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.03.14 14:49:00 - [79] ^Yes they do if your statutory rights have been breached, which you are claiming have been. What you have explained does NOT apply here. CCP never advertised the contents of this box as being explicitly applicable to existing accounts, they just advertised the contents of the box, contents which any one who purchases the box can access.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.03.14 15:01:00 - [80] or Flandres said " CCP never advertised the contents of this box as being explicitly applicable to existing accounts, they just advertised the contents of the box, contents which any one who purchases the box can access." How many times do I have to point out CCP did effectively explicitly state the box contents are for use with old accounts. They put the stuff you cannot acess with odd accounts in a list with stuff you can access with old accounts. Then they made no mention that half the list is restricted to new accounts only. That's the same as explicitly stating the content of the box are completely accessible from old accounts. Yes anyone can access the contents of the box. But lots of people cannot access the contents of the box in the expected way after reading the box. That's the key point. The way people expected to get the content after reading the box does not match how they get the content. That's why it's false advertising. The box did not mention the restrictions. The box kept back the restrictions, the very same restrictions that would have made some people not buy the box. Hiding restrictions to an offer is false advertising. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank

Bethlamar Sigmundsson	Posted - 2009.03.14 15:24:00 - [81] sorry to say this, but it has been mentioned numerous times on these forums the shuttle would be only given to NEW accounts set up using the box set....also, as to taking the game back to GAME, aint gonna happen....im an ex employee of game and as of 2-3 years ago, when games like WoW and Guild Wars started becoming a fast seller, the games returns policy was implimented, which states 'only sealed, unopened, and un-tampered games can be EXCHANGED for an item of equal value, or vouchers adding to the same value or deficit of exchange....no refunds are to be given on any product. should the security seal supplied on the game by game employees be broken, this renders any exchange null and void. Exchanges can only be done within 10 days of purchase and with recipt as proof of purchase.' Looks like u may as well make a simple pvp alt, trade your main the shuttle and play the alt till it runs out, by pew-pewing some noobs. U aint getting anything back now u opened the box.
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:02:00 - [82] Game's returns policy doesnt mean **** if someone's statutory rights have been breached like these nutjobs are claiming. If that is true they are entitled to a refund. But they won't get one, because they have no case.
Thorliaron Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:09:00 - [83] I dont understand, why would you buy the boxed game when you already have it? for a shuttle plex/gtc? lol
Bethlamar Sigmundsson	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:11:00 - [84] Originally by: Xenoxide Originally by: Akor Flandres The description on the 3rd party retailer website does not say 'This shuttle can be claimed by existing accounts'. Nor does it say it can be used purely by new accounts. In summary: 1. Retail box announces all these Exclusives with no mention that it can only be used by new accounts. 2. Product Description on an admittedly 3rd party retailer website that appears to have been written by CCP (There are other retailers that have the same description, adding credence to my theory), states implicitly that existing players will be very interested in this, implying that they will have access to it too. 3. The only place that CCP stated otherwise was the forums, with posts buried deeply in threads, which not everyone visits. I honestly think that this is enough of a case to take to the Office of Fair Trading...not that I care that much. Oh, and since your reading abilities seem to be lacking, it's Xenoxide, for future reference. 1.Exclusive means only a select group can use it, its not for everyone...hence only new accounts gain access to it and all existing ones are EXcluded..the clue is in the word...exclusive refers to only some getting it and some being blocked out of said function or reward. 2. it may well be written by CCP since in all honesty, GAME cant sit there, play EVERY game in the market and do a write up about it...that would be unfeasable...and also the line '......existing players will be very interested in this...' well, this forum has demonstrated the immense interest existing players have had in this shuttle....and in no way does this sentance refer to the fact that it could be given to existing accounts. it merely states that the objet will be a point of interest and most likely coveted by the existing playerbase and in game ship collecters....its your false interpretation that leads you to think what you HOPED it would mean. 3. Eve take more learning than your average plug-n-play shoot-em-up...the item was to give something to the new joiners that they could, at 1 point, if wise enough, sell to the playerbase at a laaaaarge markup, setting the new player up for many months to come. i would expect people to come on the website, read a bit about whats going on, and how things work around here....and all those current players who just wanted the ship...well, they know where the forums are, all they need to do is ask and they would find out...much easier than guessing and being lead by thier own false suppositions.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:21:00 - [85] Thorliaron said " I dont understand, why would you buy the boxed game when you already have it? for a shuttle plex/gtc? lol" The war access can remove hours of grinding. The Shuttle sells for 80mill+ Akor Flandres said " But they won't get one, because they have no case." You really are in denial aren't you? There is a very clear case. You can say there isn't as much as you want but your just ignoring the facts. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:25:00 - [86] Quote: You really are in denial aren't you? There is a very clear case. You can say there isn't as much as you want but your just ignoring the facts. Why would I be in denial? You're the one who bought the box and is throwing a tantrum. The fact of the matter is everything the box contains is accessible to the purchaser. You're just upset about the manner in which it is accessible.
Bethlamar Sigmundsson	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:26:00 - [87] Originally by: Akor Flandres Game's returns policy doesnt mean **** if someone's statutory rights have been breached like these nutjobs are claiming. If that is true they are entitled to a refund. But they won't get one, because they have no case. no statutory rights have been breached, only the purchasers supposition lead them to believe the packaging was something it wasnt...its thier fault....plus they opened it so now its thiers. i had some customers mother swear blind to me that thier son could play City of Heros without an internet access....i explained to them how the game worked, but they didnt listen. They baught it and 1 week later came back demanding a full refund, after the box was opened and the account card and time card used...the reason they gave was that it cost money per month to play and he had to be online with it to play. After a good 1/2 an hr of being yelled at and sworn at, as was my manager, the customer left without a refund and with the product that they baught under thier own wrong asumption...they then went to sell it at GameStation round the corner who refused to take it off them as it was an online game and as such cannot be resold. TL;DR version. It pays to listen to staff in store, as well as read up on everything you can about the product befor charging in head first. GAMES return policy is in place to stop people getting games for free, rentying games, and copying them...MMOs are pretty much exempt form any retun policy and cannot be traded in...if its faulty then GAME will tell you to contact the supplier (e.g. CCP). MOST people do not realy know thier statutory rights, and when asked, get it wrong.
Bethlamar Sigmundsson	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:34:00 - [88] Edited by: Bethlamar Sigmundsson on 14/03/2009 16:35:40 quote=Akor Flandres]Game's returns policy doesnt mean **** if someone's statutory rights have been breached like these nutjobs are claiming. If that is true they are entitled to a refund. But they won't get one, because they have no case. no statutory rights have been breached, only the purchasers supposition lead them to believe the packaging was something it wasnt...its thier fault....plus they opened it so now its thiers. i had some customers mother swear blind to me that thier son could play City of Heros without an internet access....i explained to them how the game worked, but they didnt listen. They baught it and 1 week later came back demanding a full refund, after the box was opened and the account card and time card used...the reason they gave was that it cost money per month to play and he had to be online with it to play. After a good 1/2 an hr of being yelled at and sworn at, as was my manager, the customer left without a refund and with the product that they baught under thier own wrong asumption...they then went to sell it at GameStation round the corner who refused to take it off them as it was an online game and as such cannot be resold. Pottsey, i hate to say it, but your gonna have to suck it up and deal with the fact that, in respects to the reasons of use that you purchased it, you baught a lemon. If you were a new player with no existing account, you would have all thats stated ON THE BOX FOR THE INDIVIDUAL BUYING THIS AS A NEW USER TO EVE. as an existing player, your just buying a fancy GTC....what did you expect??? When Lineage 2 released thier 4-5 year in the running box-set, they packaged it with a limited edition, non-seeded in game, white mask for new players....all they said was the box set contained an exclusive in game white mask....guess what??! people baught it, activated the new account, got the mask, transferred it to thier main and either made a buffer toon on the new account, or ditched it entirely!!!! TL;DR version you got what you paied for, a GTC with the dic to re-install the game and a code to give a new account special items. its for catching new players, not giving existing ones new shiney toys...your assumption was wrong, deal with it.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.03.14 16:36:00 - [89] Edited by: Pottsey on 14/03/2009 16:40:47 Akor Flandres said " Why would I be in denial? You're the one who bought the box and is throwing a tantrum. The fact of the matter is everything the box contains is accessible to the purchaser. You're just upset about the manner in which it is accessible." Your sound like you're in denial CCP did something wrong and your ignoring the facts', acting like everything's ok and perfect. See you ignoring facts now by repeating the line "The fact of the matter is everything the box contains is accessible to the purchaser." even though it's been pointed out that is still false advertising. "The fact of the matter is everything the box contains is accessible to the purchaser." But it's not accessible to the purchaser in the way the advertising says. The advertising made no mention of the restrictions and listed the inaccessible stuff to old accounts with the accessible stuff making it look like the inaccessible stuff was accessible to old accounts. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank
Bratacus Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.03.14 17:15:00 - [90] I was looking forward to getting back into eve but no shuttle and a wasted ú24 on 60days i can't use unless i make a new account (to get both items) well thats me done with a game i've wanted to get back into but as it always seems they (ccp) just screw us over time and time again. =me leaving (again) and one time card that will never be used. good night.



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