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Faith O'Siras	Posted - 2009.03.15 08:53:00 - [1] Edited by: Faith O''Siras on 15/03/2009 08:52:58 The next time you decide to release a major expansion, please do the following: #1: Don't force people out of your game because you want your game to be SHINY. #2: Do not remove a GOOD CLIENT (classic) in favor of something completely sub-par (premium crap lite). #3: Get rid of the MAJOR BUGS before releasing it onto TQ. I figured you had fixed most of them on SISI but obviously not. Your bug-hunters and QA teams need to be yelled at. Possibly even fired. #4: Instead of asking people to offer their opinion on the forums about subjects (ie: the removal of classic), maybe you should implement a POLLING FEATURE so when they BOOT THEIR CLIENT, it asks them. Or upon connection. A SIMPLE POLL would be far more effective than asking people to visit the forums. Had you done that, people would've told you to keep CLASSIC by a large majority. Premium Lite is CRAP in comparison. Only what, 20% of the playerbase actually VISITS these forums? The true nerds? ///end angry@CCP rant. These are of course, my opinions. FLAME AWAY.
Kora Zilesti	Posted - 2009.03.15 08:56:00 - [2] Can I have your stuff? Wait...
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.15 08:58:00 - [3] #1 is not an opinion, but an ill-informed supposition. #2 makes no sense. #3 blame Atari. #4 is most likely already built into the client. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Sjobba	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:17:00 - [4] #1: It's the 21'st century already... join us, why don't you? #2: They didn't actually "remove" the classic client, they just stopped supporting it. Which is what happens to all old software eventually. Especially when newer versions are made. And the new client is not "sub-par". It's just new and relatively untested. Once they streamline the bugs out it will far surpass it's predecessor. #3: EVE is MASSIVE, and there is no way to determine the effects 40k+ users will have on such a huge piece of software/hardware combo, until they are actually online. It's actually pretty amazing how well the servers did hold up (yes, even with the lag), considering the size of this patch. They are working 24/7 on fixing the bugs they have discovered since it launched. Give it a few days. #4: The typical user has no clue whatsoever about what is best for them, or what the effects these sort of changes have. Just the fact that so many people are here whining about the old client shows us that much. Best to leave these sort of decisions up to the professionals, or EVE would have died a long time ago.
Futuristic Eagle League of Gentlemen Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:18:00 - [5] Personally, Id like a basic as eve client that only allows basic functions, such as skill training and chat. This way, your computer doesnt like premium or just kills itself, you can inform your corp mates and keep those skillpoints rolling. (Note : above image may actually be Empress Jamyl)
Nigel Sheldon Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:33:00 - [6] 1. maybe we should go back to vector graphics and dispense with all this lovely universe we play in 2. Premium lite once bugs sorted and people know HOW to set there lite up will be vastly superior to classic in every way shape and form. 3. Like someone said, a couple of thousand people in SiSi is nothing like releasing the expansion on TQ where at most times 37k+ are playing. 4. Why poll, why keep an outdated client? It's not like it's just ccp is it a lot of games that I owned on xp don't run on vista, it's just the nature of the beast, if you don't like to update stuff on your pc to keep running the newest games then I suggest you go buy an xbox360 - or better yet as you don't like to be in touch with the 21st century, i suggest a NES!
Nigel Sheldon Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:34:00 - [7] Edited by: Nigel Sheldon on 15/03/2009 09:34:10 Edited by: Nigel Sheldon on 15/03/2009 09:33:53 double post somehow
Sirani Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:35:00 - [8] I long for the day when I can come to the forum and there isn't some hobo whining that his Commodore 64 can't run EVE anymore -------------------
Feilamya Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Faith O'Siras Your bug-hunters and QA teams need to be yelled at. Possibly even fired. Yelled at? Fired? You have no idea of procedures at CCP... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXRFJ2ar_E
Grez Minmatar Core Contingency Ignition.	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:40:00 - [10] Pre SM2.0 cards are eight years old. Kinda says how behind the curve you are. Not to mention there have been roughly 500-1000 people (if that even) complaining about classic. Hell, eve the petition thread only had an average of TWO posts per page going FOR the petition - the rest were against it. I'm afraid you're in an extreme, extreme minority here. --- Have a rawr on me.
eliminator2 Gallente THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:40:00 - [11] 1. its simply how CCP have gotten idea's from people and implemented them into the expansion and they added new things to make the game more fun for 90% of the players the rest of the 10% are moaners/trollers/kids 2. classic was a good client but why should they keep a second client when they can put 1 client and use the other server that was used for classic to good use etc less lag or implementing that server to a system/server that needs help to handle the fights 3. they did get rid of major bugs imho did you ever bother checking SISI out it was full of bugs every thing you clicked was a bug and now well its not even bugged compared to SISI was so congratz to CCP on that 4. a poll would be a good idea but there would still be how you say "20%" of players actually taking the poll and for the customer's to be able to make there own oppinions is way better than a simple poll because most people feel as though CCP want's to hear your sepereta idea's instead of been given a set of idea's and your angry rant failed because you don't see logic behind what CCP does you jump to conclusion btw CAN I HAVES YOUR STUFF?
R4d1o4ct1v3 Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.03.15 09:52:00 - [12] Originally by: eliminator2 2. classic was a good client but why should they keep a second client when they can put 1 client and use the other server that was used for classic to good use etc less lag or implementing that server to a system/server that needs help to handle the fights While I agree with your post, I though I would just point out... Both the "classic" client and the new "premium" client used the same servers, so letting go of the "classic" client has no effect on servers as such. It's purely a "client-side", cosmetic, change. Kind of like the difference between two internet browsers.
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.03.15 11:08:00 - [13] #1: What?! You don't want CCP to update their game graphics? Are you out of your mind? If the game wasn't continuously updated it would become outdated and people would leave in favour of new shiny games with fresh content/graphics. I think CCP's approach is fricking brilliant, continuously updating their game without rendering the old content obsolete. Instead of having to release EVE 2 in 2006 and EVE 3 in 2009 having to make completely new games everytime. #2: Classic client was redundant and outdated, update your hardware man. Others have already proven how cheap it is to update to something that will run EVE just fine. #3: You know nothing about the complexity of such an undertaking, do you? It has been just 4-5 days since the expansion went live and the server is already running as smoothly as ever for most people, with only few very minor problems. An amazing feet, I assure you! #4: See #2. fake edit: oh I almost forgot... buy bye. ================================================== I should really get a sig.
Alva Noto the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.03.15 11:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Sirani I long for the day when I can come to the forum and there isn't some hobo whining that his Commodore 64 can't run EVE anymore HEY!?!? I **ing can't run ** on my c64 anymore!?!?!
Miniturret Amarr Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals	Posted - 2009.03.15 12:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Grez Pre SM2.0 cards are eight years old. Kinda says how behind the curve you are. Not to mention there have been roughly 500-1000 people (if that even) complaining about classic. Hell, eve the petition thread only had an average of TWO posts per page going FOR the petition - the rest were against it. I'm afraid you're in an extreme, extreme minority here. Before all the flames I am in the process of updating my video card so as to continue playing with the crappy eve premium lite. I disagree with your statement above because of the sheer fact that with the player base that EvE has how many replies did the thread actually get? 500-1000 out of what 50k-100k so you looking at 1% of the player base. Not an accurate representation of the players. Of the people who generally post on the forums of the 1% it's mostly those that already have $2-5k systems so what do they care get rid of it. but guess what not everyone can afford to go out every 3-6 months and buy a new system. Also i disagree with you my current card which has last me over 2 years now radeon 9250 was released in the summer of 2004 so less than 5 years ago and it's not capable of playing eve without the work around posted in the other thread. Now i know i'm not able to play some of the newer games but they haven't released a game i've wanted to play in a long time. so I am of the mind "If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it."
D4RK 0NE testicular Fortitude Sherwood Forest	Posted - 2009.03.15 12:17:00 - [16] Dear whiney whiney bear, I run eve on a single core 2.8ghz with a radeon 9550,the pc is 4 years old. premium lite is sexy and uses jack shiit ram compared to before.I Used to run classic,and tbh,premo lite runs FAR FAR BETTER. Therefore, i feel obliged to tell you ,that you are a focktard with no clue.STOP LIVING IN THE 90's AND BUY A REAL PC FFS!!!! go DIAF D4rk.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.03.15 12:29:00 - [17] dear forum nubbin op it has come to my attention you expressing you veiw on things what are way above you head and obvisouly you cant fathom. please leave these forums quietly or i will be forced to DESTROY all your posts will MY flaming (last night anyone ) please tell me the game you have made so we can of course compare comparisons between yours game and CCP game on how you run your game and vice a versa. also premiun lite is the premium client and also if only 10% if that visit these forums then there is only 10% or less that are having porblems using there old client because i dont see 300 thousand people crying on the forums about there client functionality. next time you decide to make a poast please feed you fingers to your nearest amarian overlord so that you cant write such crap as this as clearly you are a a$$hat this has been you warning for future flaming revelence and i suggest you take it This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.15 13:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Faith O'Siras Edited by: Faith O''Siras on 15/03/2009 08:52:58 The next time you decide to release a major expansion, please do the following: #1: Don't force people out of your game because you want your game to be SHINY. #2: Do not remove a GOOD CLIENT (classic) in favor of something completely sub-par (premium crap lite). #3: Get rid of the MAJOR BUGS before releasing it onto TQ. I figured you had fixed most of them on SISI but obviously not. Your bug-hunters and QA teams need to be yelled at. Possibly even fired. #4: Instead of asking people to offer their opinion on the forums about subjects (ie: the removal of classic), maybe you should implement a POLLING FEATURE so when they BOOT THEIR CLIENT, it asks them. Or upon connection. A SIMPLE POLL would be far more effective than asking people to visit the forums. Had you done that, people would've told you to keep CLASSIC by a large majority. Premium Lite is CRAP in comparison. Only what, 20% of the playerbase actually VISITS these forums? The true nerds? ///end angry@CCP rant. These are of course, my opinions. FLAME AWAY. Nobody was forced out of the game they all had plenty of time to update there 18th century graphics cards.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.03.15 13:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII Originally by: Faith O'Siras Edited by: Faith O''Siras on 15/03/2009 08:52:58 The next time you decide to release a major expansion, please do the following: #1: Don't force people out of your game because you want your game to be SHINY. #2: Do not remove a GOOD CLIENT (classic) in favor of something completely sub-par (premium crap lite). #3: Get rid of the MAJOR BUGS before releasing it onto TQ. I figured you had fixed most of them on SISI but obviously not. Your bug-hunters and QA teams need to be yelled at. Possibly even fired. #4: Instead of asking people to offer their opinion on the forums about subjects (ie: the removal of classic), maybe you should implement a POLLING FEATURE so when they BOOT THEIR CLIENT, it asks them. Or upon connection. A SIMPLE POLL would be far more effective than asking people to visit the forums. Had you done that, people would've told you to keep CLASSIC by a large majority. Premium Lite is CRAP in comparison. Only what, 20% of the playerbase actually VISITS these forums? The true nerds? ///end angry@CCP rant. These are of course, my opinions. FLAME AWAY. Nobody was forced out of the game they all had plenty of time to update there 18th century graphics cards. 17th you forgot to carry the 1 This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.15 13:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Miniturret 500-1000 out of what 50k-100k so you looking at 1% of the player base. Not an accurate representation of the players. Why is it not an accurate representation? Quote: Of the people who generally post on the forums of the 1% it's mostly those that already have $2-5k systems so what do they care get rid of it. What is your basis for this assertion? Quote: I am of the mind "If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it." Does "needlessly tying up half of the content development resources" count as "broke[n]"? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.03.15 13:46:00 - [21] I'm a forum whor3. Not a True Nerd. There's a big difference. Terianna Eri > :( i wish i were as good a forum ***** as karrade
Miniturret Amarr Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals	Posted - 2009.03.15 14:10:00 - [22] with the if it ain't broke don't fix it statement I was referring to my PC. Everything still works so why change/upgrade/replace it? As i've stated yes I know i'm not able to play some of the newer games and I accept that. As to what I consider an accurate representation of the population would be 10% of the player base which if you consider the fact that there is actually closer to what 250k acounts last I checked i'm only going to use the 50k-100k which I previously used. 10% of that would be 5k-10k responses or polling answers. Do I agree that Eve needed to updated? yes and no. Yes because it can not remain stagnant or people will leave and the game with fail. No because this is the worst time economy wise to force people to upgrade their computers if they want to continue to play the game. I had to look and see what I could give up in order to upgrade my computer enough to continue to play eve. Needless to say there wasn't much that I could and still survive. As to the statement of the bulk of the posters here already have high end computers that is based on their comments which lead me to believe a) they had a silver spoon shoved up their asses as birth and their parents gave them anything they wanted, or b) they still live in their momma's basement and have nothing better to do.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.15 14:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Miniturret As to what I consider an accurate representation of the population would be 10% of the player base Ok, so no consideration of statistic validity then? Good. In that case it might surprise you to learn that 1000 is a valid sample size for just about anything. Increasing to 10k wouldn't improve much on the accuracy of the representation. No, the argument you should be making is that the sample batch isn't random enough and that it introduces a selection bias that is relevant to the question at hand. Quote: As to the statement of the bulk of the posters here already have high end computers that is based on their comments which lead me to believe a) they had a silver spoon shoved up their asses as birth and their parents gave them anything they wanted, or b) they still live in their momma's basement and have nothing better to do. …or maybe it's because they represent a fair cross-section of the players. Their answers are born out of the fact that only a tiny minority of the EVE players don't have SM2-capable cards, and the posters accurately represent the player base at large. CCPs own data gathering on the capabilities of players' computers seems to suggest this. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
meat vapour	Posted - 2009.03.15 14:27:00 - [24] hai, is this the whine thread for the c64 owners?
Faith O'Siras	Posted - 2009.03.15 14:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Tippia àor maybe it's because they represent a fair cross-section of the players. Their answers are born out of the fact that only a tiny minority of the EVE players don't have SM2-capable cards, and the posters accurately represent the player base at large. CCPs own data gathering on the capabilities of players' computers seems to suggest this. There lies the overall problem. CCP's data gathering regarding this change was made via a forum thread. How many people actually visit these forums? A very small minority do. I'm in a fairly decent alliance. Ever since this patch took effect, the activity in my alliance has dropped significantly. IE: from 100+ on at any given time down to roughly 60+ on at any given time. Figure a 35%-45% drop in overall activity. Our forums are highly populated with "please don't kick me --- my PC can't play this new premium lite crap yet" The repercussions of this are more significant than most of you realize. And to those of you who say that ample time was given, I don't consider two moths ample time. Six months would have been a hell of a lot more appropriate. Period.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.15 14:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Faith O'Siras There lies the overall problem. CCP's data gathering regarding this change was made via a forum thread. Source? Quote: How many people actually visit these forums? A very small minority do. Doesn't matter as long as it's representative. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Faith O'Siras	Posted - 2009.03.15 14:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Faith O'Siras There lies the overall problem. CCP's data gathering regarding this change was made via a forum thread. Source? Quote: How many people actually visit these forums? A very small minority do. Doesn't matter as long as it's representative. One of the dev blogs where they requested everyone's input regarding said subject and they stated that it would highly influence their final decision. Perhaps I should've said their primary source of data. And to answer your second, it's not. It is _not_ representative. How do you figure it is representative?
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.03.15 14:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Nigel Sheldon 2. Premium lite once bugs sorted and people know HOW to set there lite up will be vastly superior to classic in every way shape and form. Quote: premium lite is sexy and uses jack shiit ram compared to before. Seriously, you lie. You never tested Premium Lite really, or just stop to Medium, never tried Low. I tried Low settings, just for fun (8800GT so...), and I can objectively say that Lite is worse than Classic. Just try, and go to an Amarr station, and then return here to tell us that it is shiny...... ___________________ EVE "Community" become more like WoW each day, with his fanboy attitude. Simplistic logic, Lazy thinking, No capacity to comprehend same a justified whine...
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.03.15 14:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Faith O'Siras One of the dev blogs where they requested everyone's input regarding said subject and they stated that it would highly influence their final decision. Perhaps I should've said their primary source of data. Link? Quote: And to answer your second, it's not. It is _not_ representative. How do you figure it is representative? I don't figure anything. I'm simply arguing against the assumption that you need a large amount of people to get accurate data — you don't, as long as the sample is representative. Now, you say that it isn't — what do you base that assertion on? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Miniturret Amarr Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals	Posted - 2009.03.15 14:41:00 - [30] tippia i stated the bulk of the posters does not equal the bulk of the players as we've seen. And yes after thinking about it further your right in the sense that the poll on the forums was not random enough even of the 1000 people. This thread in particular is a prime example of the problem many of the new people I try to get to play eve have. when the thread first started there was some discussion and than the forum *****s came in and flamed those that are not of the same opinion as them. I realize on any forum you will have this problem but it seems here that not only do they flame you but give false information.

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