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THE CHOSEN1
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Posted - 2004.08.17 10:02:00 -
[31]
the whole problem is the ranges and the highly nerfed projectiles.
long range SHOULD be 80-120km ... where tachs, cruise, 1400's and 420mm dominate
medium range should be 20-80km
short range within 20 km
nobody uses long range anymore. Nerfed tachs and borked long range projectiles are the cause.
but as usual, someone will give tempest more cap and more armor, make 1400s super powerful and tempest will be owning everything. Lets try stick to the role play a bit next nerf/fix.
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THE CHOSEN1
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Posted - 2004.08.17 10:02:00 -
[32]
the whole problem is the ranges and the highly nerfed projectiles.
long range SHOULD be 80-120km ... where tachs, cruise, 1400's and 420mm dominate
medium range should be 20-80km
short range within 20 km
nobody uses long range anymore. Nerfed tachs and borked long range projectiles are the cause.
but as usual, someone will give tempest more cap and more armor, make 1400s super powerful and tempest will be owning everything. Lets try stick to the role play a bit next nerf/fix.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 10:06:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Siddy on 17/08/2004 10:08:22
 Originally by: THE CHOSEN1
the whole problem is the ranges and the highly nerfed projectiles.
long range SHOULD be 80-120km ... where tachs, cruise, 1400's and 420mm dominate
medium range should be 20-80km
short range within 20 km
nobody uses long range anymore. Nerfed tachs and borked long range projectiles are the cause.
but as usual, someone will give tempest more cap and more armor, make 1400s super powerful and tempest will be owning everything. Lets try stick to the role play a bit next nerf/fix.
what means that all my 5 months efforts invested in Tempest were invain - and not only my
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 10:06:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Siddy on 17/08/2004 10:08:22
Originally by: THE CHOSEN1
the whole problem is the ranges and the highly nerfed projectiles.
long range SHOULD be 80-120km ... where tachs, cruise, 1400's and 420mm dominate
medium range should be 20-80km
short range within 20 km
nobody uses long range anymore. Nerfed tachs and borked long range projectiles are the cause.
but as usual, someone will give tempest more cap and more armor, make 1400s super powerful and tempest will be owning everything. Lets try stick to the role play a bit next nerf/fix.
what means that all my 5 months efforts invested in Tempest were invain - and not only my
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.17 10:39:00 -
[35]
They need to be overhauled. Keep tracking nerfs inGame for sake of the other guns compared to 1400mm. Increase Dmod on ALL projectiles. Give back and/or Increase all falloff. Increase maximum targeting range on all Minm ships by atleast 40%. Reverse the ammo range/damage.
That should make them more comparable and role oriented while leaving the other races ships/gun usable. If a minm wants to use the other races to get the different combat technique then they can at the expense of their ship bonus like it was meant to be... not because its abso-freakin-neccessary.
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.17 10:39:00 -
[36]
They need to be overhauled. Keep tracking nerfs inGame for sake of the other guns compared to 1400mm. Increase Dmod on ALL projectiles. Give back and/or Increase all falloff. Increase maximum targeting range on all Minm ships by atleast 40%. Reverse the ammo range/damage.
That should make them more comparable and role oriented while leaving the other races ships/gun usable. If a minm wants to use the other races to get the different combat technique then they can at the expense of their ship bonus like it was meant to be... not because its abso-freakin-neccessary.
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Black 1
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Posted - 2004.08.17 11:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Venna
Tempest clearly being the worst out of the tier 2 Battleships.
The tempest is a teir 1 BS anit it?
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Black 1
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Posted - 2004.08.17 11:35:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Venna
Tempest clearly being the worst out of the tier 2 Battleships.
The tempest is a teir 1 BS anit it?
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 11:49:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Black 1
Originally by: Venna
Tempest clearly being the worst out of the tier 2 Battleships.
The tempest is a teir 1 BS anit it?
ok now this is disturbing 
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 11:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Black 1
Originally by: Venna
Tempest clearly being the worst out of the tier 2 Battleships.
The tempest is a teir 1 BS anit it?
ok now this is disturbing
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Mooks
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Posted - 2004.08.17 12:15:00 -
[41]
Oh my dear fudging god.... here I was reading the forums and started thinking: Hmmmm..this one guy here really cant type, seriously and definately cant type and Ive seen that before. Then looked at his corp, name and found out that S_Staalin is still the same he used to be  |
Mooks
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Posted - 2004.08.17 12:15:00 -
[42]
Oh my dear fudging god.... here I was reading the forums and started thinking: Hmmmm..this one guy here really cant type, seriously and definately cant type and Ive seen that before. Then looked at his corp, name and found out that S_Staalin is still the same he used to be |
dustBOY
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Posted - 2004.08.17 12:18:00 -
[43]
(voi ***** joo... tuntuu aika todennők÷seltő ;))
LOL 
Quote:
A funny thing 'bout regret is that it is better to regret something u have done than to regret something u haven't
-Satan
I'm gonna mine DO or die trying <--- it's not a link you fool! |
dustBOY
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Posted - 2004.08.17 12:18:00 -
[44]
(voi ***** joo... tuntuu aika todennők÷seltő ;))
LOL
Quote:
A funny thing 'bout regret is that it is better to regret something u have done than to regret something u haven't
-Satan
I'm gonna mine DO or die trying <--- it's not a link you fool! |
dustBOY
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Posted - 2004.08.17 12:19:00 -
[45]
MUAHAHAHAAAAA... these boys know some foreing lanquages :D
Quote:
A funny thing 'bout regret is that it is better to regret something u have done than to regret something u haven't
-Satan
I'm gonna mine DO or die trying <--- it's not a link you fool! |
dustBOY
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Posted - 2004.08.17 12:19:00 -
[46]
MUAHAHAHAAAAA... these boys know some foreing lanquages :D
Quote:
A funny thing 'bout regret is that it is better to regret something u have done than to regret something u haven't
-Satan
I'm gonna mine DO or die trying <--- it's not a link you fool! |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 12:26:00 -
[47]
yeah whatever, now lets try to stay at topick, shall we
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.08.17 12:26:00 -
[48]
yeah whatever, now lets try to stay at topick, shall we
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chillx
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Posted - 2004.08.17 13:09:00 -
[49]
That's how good a Tempest has become. Everyone thinks it's our teir1 BS.
Which is BS.
*strokes Typhoon.
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chillx
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Posted - 2004.08.17 13:09:00 -
[50]
That's how good a Tempest has become. Everyone thinks it's our teir1 BS.
Which is BS.
*strokes Typhoon.
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.17 14:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: chillx
*strokes Typhoon.
And while projectiles are utter trash Typhoons in their native role are utter trash compared to every other BS in their native role. ~97k max targeting range with a signal booster makes 1400mm falloff about as good as dirt. You still need 2 Tracking Computer II's to hit for less than desirable damage, which leaves only 2 mids for offensive/sensor boost mods. Phoon makes 1200 work slightly better than 720mm scouts did before the nerf patch. It can't do short range AC DoT like it used to. Its weak armor makes even a Dominix superior in DoT. A fool only goes into battle without a rocket /w defenders for PvP so 3 Siege isn't enough to make it worth its Isogen.
All its good for is giving up its ship bonuses to Mega Pulses, Medium Neutron Blasters, or Nosteratus w/ Siege & Drone Vollies. Thus... it can be a "half way decent" gate camp machine IF people show up in frigate, cruisers, and tempests. If anything else comes your way your better off warping away.
The biggest problem with the ship, besides projectiles being trash, is its maximum lock range. IF TomB decided to keep the guns the same then it could survive as a long range bombarder IF it could actually hit long range. But to hit you need Tracking Computers which add range on your gun's optimal. Optimal which allows you to get better shots but totally destroys the "iffy" new system for falloff/tracking. ATM I can fire a 1400mm at an optimal ( unajusted by ammo ) of about 94km and lock no higher than 97km. They miss and miss often. Proj Suck at 35-48km so even if I use EMP L my damage is not really better than DU L where I can try to use range to negate using 2 of my mids for tracking computer IIs. The ship needs a boost in this max range area something fierce and is inexcusable not to do so. The changes made only look good on paper... obviously they were flawed and now the Minm Race needs to be brought back into balance.
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.08.17 14:03:00 -
[52]
Originally by: chillx
*strokes Typhoon.
And while projectiles are utter trash Typhoons in their native role are utter trash compared to every other BS in their native role. ~97k max targeting range with a signal booster makes 1400mm falloff about as good as dirt. You still need 2 Tracking Computer II's to hit for less than desirable damage, which leaves only 2 mids for offensive/sensor boost mods. Phoon makes 1200 work slightly better than 720mm scouts did before the nerf patch. It can't do short range AC DoT like it used to. Its weak armor makes even a Dominix superior in DoT. A fool only goes into battle without a rocket /w defenders for PvP so 3 Siege isn't enough to make it worth its Isogen.
All its good for is giving up its ship bonuses to Mega Pulses, Medium Neutron Blasters, or Nosteratus w/ Siege & Drone Vollies. Thus... it can be a "half way decent" gate camp machine IF people show up in frigate, cruisers, and tempests. If anything else comes your way your better off warping away.
The biggest problem with the ship, besides projectiles being trash, is its maximum lock range. IF TomB decided to keep the guns the same then it could survive as a long range bombarder IF it could actually hit long range. But to hit you need Tracking Computers which add range on your gun's optimal. Optimal which allows you to get better shots but totally destroys the "iffy" new system for falloff/tracking. ATM I can fire a 1400mm at an optimal ( unajusted by ammo ) of about 94km and lock no higher than 97km. They miss and miss often. Proj Suck at 35-48km so even if I use EMP L my damage is not really better than DU L where I can try to use range to negate using 2 of my mids for tracking computer IIs. The ship needs a boost in this max range area something fierce and is inexcusable not to do so. The changes made only look good on paper... obviously they were flawed and now the Minm Race needs to be brought back into balance.
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.08.17 14:27:00 -
[53]
Kaylona relax dudette.
Do as I do:
train Amarr.
Oh and CCP: instead of nerfing everything (next patch is gonna be missile toast), try tweaking for a chance.
Make stuff BETTER instead of making stuff worse.
Nerfing has not been the solution in any game on the net, ever. If a weapon/ship/sword/puppet is too strong compared to the other weapons/ships/swords/puppets, don't make that good thing worse, make the bad things better.
That way in the end you'll all have good stuff instead of all having crap.
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.08.17 14:27:00 -
[54]
Kaylona relax dudette.
Do as I do:
train Amarr.
Oh and CCP: instead of nerfing everything (next patch is gonna be missile toast), try tweaking for a chance.
Make stuff BETTER instead of making stuff worse.
Nerfing has not been the solution in any game on the net, ever. If a weapon/ship/sword/puppet is too strong compared to the other weapons/ships/swords/puppets, don't make that good thing worse, make the bad things better.
That way in the end you'll all have good stuff instead of all having crap.
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chillx
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Posted - 2004.08.17 14:46:00 -
[55]
It is fairly annoying that my DOT at 50km is better with my rupture than my phoon. Yes my 720's are named on my rupture but they regularly outperform the 1200's on my phoon.
Also the insane number of tracking mods you need on a Min BS severly hampers whatever other setup your trying to achieve. My corp mates laugh when the hear I have to put 4 tracking / damage modules on my phoon to get anything like decent hits.
Still, I like to RP so I'm stuck with a 70Mill cruiser. Thank god my missiles and drones still work
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chillx
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Posted - 2004.08.17 14:46:00 -
[56]
It is fairly annoying that my DOT at 50km is better with my rupture than my phoon. Yes my 720's are named on my rupture but they regularly outperform the 1200's on my phoon.
Also the insane number of tracking mods you need on a Min BS severly hampers whatever other setup your trying to achieve. My corp mates laugh when the hear I have to put 4 tracking / damage modules on my phoon to get anything like decent hits.
Still, I like to RP so I'm stuck with a 70Mill cruiser. Thank god my missiles and drones still work
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Shim'naunta
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Posted - 2004.08.17 16:11:00 -
[57]
Ok lets get this right, the phoon is not suposed to be a long range ship.
but due to the gun nerf it wont be able to fill its role and the fast hard hitting close range bs either.
both tempest and phoon are useless in comparision to other bs's of there class and with the new assult frigs out, minmatar ship flyers should really start to panic, cause just 4 of them will own a minmatar bs with out a scratch. such a shame really.
but tomb wont do anything about it, this much should of become clear to ppl by now. no responce to the hundreds of comments say that he feels theres nothing wrong with taking a whole race's class of ships out of the game, lets face it there are beter equivelent cruisers and frigates in the game to as there also effected by the nerf.
So why bother to by minmatar ships anymore, there is no reason. and if we all stop flying minmatar then mabye they will notice, but i doubt it.
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Shim'naunta
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Posted - 2004.08.17 16:11:00 -
[58]
Ok lets get this right, the phoon is not suposed to be a long range ship.
but due to the gun nerf it wont be able to fill its role and the fast hard hitting close range bs either.
both tempest and phoon are useless in comparision to other bs's of there class and with the new assult frigs out, minmatar ship flyers should really start to panic, cause just 4 of them will own a minmatar bs with out a scratch. such a shame really.
but tomb wont do anything about it, this much should of become clear to ppl by now. no responce to the hundreds of comments say that he feels theres nothing wrong with taking a whole race's class of ships out of the game, lets face it there are beter equivelent cruisers and frigates in the game to as there also effected by the nerf.
So why bother to by minmatar ships anymore, there is no reason. and if we all stop flying minmatar then mabye they will notice, but i doubt it.
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Rob Mattacks
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Posted - 2004.08.17 16:26:00 -
[59]
Yes although the grid was boosted on the typhoon it was not enough imo. It has taken a fitting nerf as grid was given to compensate increase in armor repairers but not enough to fit siege aswell. The cruise launchers have a terrible ROF and you should be able to fit 4 siege easy on a close range set up as they are no way overpowered on a typhoon without bonuses. The long range armor tank you can forget about as it once again lacks grid big time. Add to that the low performance of projectiles and you have another nerfed ship.
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Rob Mattacks
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Posted - 2004.08.17 16:26:00 -
[60]
Yes although the grid was boosted on the typhoon it was not enough imo. It has taken a fitting nerf as grid was given to compensate increase in armor repairers but not enough to fit siege aswell. The cruise launchers have a terrible ROF and you should be able to fit 4 siege easy on a close range set up as they are no way overpowered on a typhoon without bonuses. The long range armor tank you can forget about as it once again lacks grid big time. Add to that the low performance of projectiles and you have another nerfed ship.
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