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Minimumal Requirements to live in W-space.

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Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:22:00 - [1] Thats it, I'm moving to W-space. I've packed up an Orca with a BS and CovOps in hull. I have thousands of probes, and probe BPOs. I have BC bpcs, and no way to manufacture. Which begs the question, what is the minimal requirement to live in W-space? In reflecting on this question, I suspect there are two things minimally needed to be able to 'reasonably' live in W-space. Place for occasional refuge Ability to re-equip ammo at least (obtain or construct ammo) In terms of 1. yes you can live out of safe spots as long as you have something like an Orca or cap ship. Some have already suggested deploying POS. Outposts would be very nice! In terms of 2. you don't need a working market par-se, in fact I think a working market might ruin the wild west feel of it - but you do need the ability to replace ammo. The ability to simply make or obtain ammo would be perfect. As far as I can see these are the only two things required to make living in W-space reasonably possible. I think too, that both these things could be met with the seeding of the occasional hidden outpost or the ability to construct outposts without Sov. Anyone else want to try their hand at working through the exercise of identifying what is minimally required to live in W-space. NOTE: If you do pose suggestions, I ask one requirement - that you don't TAME W-space in your solutions. I'm working on the assumption that W-Space is tough, and difficult, and remains the wild-west. I'm merely asking for the ability for a reasonably small group of skilled pilots (pioneers) to be able to survive without having to rely on L-space, except under exceptional circumstances.
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:32:00 - [2] I'll go. We'd need mining ability and the ability to manufacture ammunition. Or a heavy reliance on tech 1 amarr weaponry. A logistical support ship with structure and armor reppers and shield transfer arrays would be helpful as well.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:36:00 - [3] Originally by: Taran Summers I'll go. We'd need mining ability and the ability to manufacture ammunition. Or a heavy reliance on tech 1 amarr weaponry. A logistical support ship with structure and armor reppers and shield transfer arrays would be helpful as well. I buy the idea that it would be necessary to have some means of dealing with mined material, simply for the reason that in my assumptions, I was primarily thinking about people who wished to rat. There are those who primarily do industry, or mine, and so I agree that you could argue some way of dealing with mined materials is necessary, but when I think about it, I think it is unreasonable to expect a working market. So lets say you mine .. is it simply to support the production of items needed by W-space pioneers? I don't necessarily buy the idea of logistics though. Remote reppers are available. Any pioneer moving to W-space should be expected to anticipate that need and include it on their 'must-bring' list.
Admiral Bear	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:41:00 - [4] u need lvl 70 at least i think. mobs r hard their
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:45:00 - [5] I meant for the continuing manufacture of ammunition. You don't need a whole market. You do need bombs, guns, sharp sticks, and such for those times your exit is in deep 0.0 and you can't get a good resupply.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:47:00 - [6] Amarr. Lasers. Crystals. Ahh, beautiful. Originally by: 5pinDizzy Troll Score-o-Meter --------Failure----------\|\|\|-----------Succes------- 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1--0--1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Eventy One Originally by: Taran Summers I don't necessarily buy the idea of logistics though. Remote reppers are available. Any pioneer moving to W-space should be expected to anticipate that need and include it on their 'must-bring' list. This is the same bunch that is telling stories about going to W-space without probes. Never assume there is a must-bring list
Monkey Saturday Fear Inc	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:47:00 - [8] Epeen. A big one. Like mine. /unzips --------
Cutie Chaser Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:48:00 - [9] Whats the cost to run a small POS per month? I'd love to have a tiny outpost to call home for a corp... how much will it run me and how long will it run with say, an entire industrial-full of fuel? Also, are there ice belts to mine anywhere in w-space? *** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:49:00 - [10] to live in space you will need a main and a alt with one of them in a carrier. this is the only true way to live in w-space since you have the refitting feature with the carrier plently of cargo and ship space to dump and change for gas harvesting, hacking, mining and have the space for all the different conbos of ships which you can put in a safespot while doing so F-OFF IS RECRUITING CLICK SIG

el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:49:00 - [11] 3. a brain or 3. insurance
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Cutie Chaser Also, are there ice belts to mine anywhere in w-space? I don't think so, but that would make things (for the POS running crowd) a tad easier. Even with ICE though POS still require things (like Robotics and Uranium) that you can't get from ICE. Still what about a W-space POS variant that could run on W-space mineable things only?
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:55:00 - [13] My corp is already doing it using the same tactics we've used to live in deep 0.0 space for the last couple years (without alliance membership and without asking permission or paying rent). A small nomadic fleet can operate for very very long periods of time without docking and without relying on infrastructure like POSs or Stations. Wormholes actually make this easier. In deep 0.0 we are often 20+ hostile jumps from a place where we can dock, get supplies, etc. In unexplored space, a convenient wormhole brings supplies to within one jump. That happened to us yesterday when a wormhole into a low sec system opened up. We sent a couple ships through for a beer run and went back to business. Good luck out there! Maybe we'll cross your path one of these days. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Veltraan Gallente modro	Posted - 2009.03.16 20:59:00 - [14] Outfit the Orca with a hand ammunition reloader. How difficult can that be.
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2009.03.16 21:02:00 - [15] 1 - An industrial or transport with the gear to setup just enough of a pos to unload a freighter. 2 - A freighter with the real pos equipment and secure cans and fuel and such. 2 billion + ISK gamble.
Minerva IV Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.16 21:19:00 - [16] Maybe giving the orca a reprocessing ability and a factory slot (high wastage on both so no point in using them in known space but would allow people to live out in unknown space) Or maybe a tech 3 industrial ship which can have above mentioned sub systems. Or as you already sejested the occasional hidden refitting manufacturing facility hidden out there would work too. Or you could just make sure that you have a hauler or two always full of ammo/drones and probes and fill them up every time you find a WH to known space that should be able to keep you going for a good while :) For added immersion of course you could just dump yourself out there with just what you can take in the orca, make sure you take some ship probes and live off what you can kill really lost in space :)
Illiya GoonFleet	Posted - 2009.03.16 21:19:00 - [17] A group of us have got a deathstar with CHA/SMA all set up, with a very good supply of fuel already up and running and going well. All in all, it's not too hard, and it's been a lot of fun, so far. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.03.16 21:20:00 - [18] Overthinking this. A POS would be nice to duck into. Get a hangar array and storage. That's all you need really. Bring in a hauler with you too. When you start getting filled up probe out an exit. If you entered from hi sec you will probably drop back into hi sec. Regardless just send your CovOps through and see if it is somewhere close to places you can buy/sell stuff. Unload hauler and reload with supplies. Rinse and repeat as necessary. I suppose if you are heading in from 0.0 then the chances of finding a favorable exit are small. Either probe the exit daily and hope in a month something good appears you can use. Even if you are self-sufficient though sooner or later you will need to bring stuff out and bring fuel in (no Ice out there). So all that manufacturing ability is wasted cost and effort not to mention eating your POS fuel faster. Just cart in a big pile to begin with. Soloing these WH seems pretty hard. Entered one last night and found a three BS spawn that kicked our collective (5 pilots) asses (and non of them were remotely noobie). -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.03.16 21:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Armoured C to live in space you will need a main and a alt with one of them in a carrier. this is the only true way to live in w-space since you have the refitting feature with the carrier plently of cargo and ship space to dump and change for gas harvesting, hacking, mining and have the space for all the different conbos of ships which you can put in a safespot while doing so Carrier has too high a mass cost for the additional firepower and capitol repping it can bring. Here I will repost from another thread. Originally by: Zeba Lets look at some numbers. Archon Cargo bay: 3300 m3 base 29,993 m3 maximum though I doubt any carrier pilot in his right mind will use up all his low and rig slots to get it. Maint bay: 1,000,000 m3 Corp hanger: 10,000 m3 Mass: 1,012,500,000 kg Orca Cargo bay: 30,000 m3 base 100,951 m3 maximum Maint bay: 400,000 m3 Corp hanger: 40,000 m3 Mass: 250,000,000 kg Both can refit ships in space with the orca having a distinct edge in how many packaged ships it can carry and eject on the other side for a pilot to board so he can rig and fit it out. Thats also a 1 on 1 comparison so if you take into consideration the mass restrictions you would have a choice of one carrier or four Orcas. Thats one hell of alot of pos components, fuel, ammo, ships and fittings that can fit into those Orcas so from a purely logistics point of view the Orca will be the ship of choice to base out of for your wormhole adventures. Have the pilots follow in pods or shuttles and you will have an enormous force compared to what a single carrier can bring in terms of both firepower and logistics. As far as the minimum force and logistics needed to stay a while in w-space I figure 4 pilots should do the trick. One in a t1 indy stuffed with ammo and fitted with a cloak and probe launcher with scan strength rigs and 3 combat pilots who all have one of the needed hacking modules in a mid and a rr in one the highs. Will be trickey but doable. What I think the smart ones will do though is take at least 6 pilots and have and orca along to act as a mobile pos and ammo storage ship. You can easily fit an itty V and exequeror in the maint bay filled with ammo and everything else under the ammo and charges market section so as to leave the cargo and corp bays free for packed ships and fittings. Orca is total win for w-space. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Lord WarATron Amarr Shadow Reapers DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2009.03.16 21:34:00 - [20] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 16/03/2009 21:34:36 The really cheap and nasty way is just live in W-Space until you find a high sec or low sec wormhole and then get your alt to bring a hauler full of goods through the WH to resupply and pickup any loot etc you stockpiled to transport back to empire. Other than that, just put up a POS. Again, POS fuel via the wormhole since every WH system will have a link to some accessable system eventually. -- Billion Isk Mission

Recon Three 181st Legion W A S T E L A N D	Posted - 2009.03.16 21:48:00 - [21] Minimumal. _____ :>
Cors It's A Trap	Posted - 2009.03.16 22:47:00 - [22] It's very simple. An orca with a POS in it. Once every few weeks you'll have to scan out a path back to normal space to fuel the POS. Other then that one trip every few weeks, you could live your whole eve career out in WH space. SIG: FULL WINDOWS CLIENT 1.9gig
Sirani Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.16 22:57:00 - [23] Originally by: Cors It's very simple. An orca with a POS in it. Once every few weeks you'll have to scan out a path back to normal space to fuel the POS. Other then that one trip every few weeks, you could live your whole eve career out in WH space. + won't you need a corp full of people willing to live there with you so you can kill sleepers? otherwise what's the point in being there solo? -------------------
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.03.16 23:28:00 - [24] have heard of corps putting up 2-3 poses ( one has a corp hanger array with just pos fuel in it) resupply just depends on wormholes. Sometimes u might find another to w sapce and then one to k space same thing u just go resupply
Bethulsunamen Viziam	Posted - 2009.03.16 23:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Sirani Originally by: Cors It's very simple. An orca with a POS in it. Once every few weeks you'll have to scan out a path back to normal space to fuel the POS. Other then that one trip every few weeks, you could live your whole eve career out in WH space. + won't you need a corp full of people willing to live there with you so you can kill sleepers? otherwise what's the point in being there solo? To kill crap frigate sleepers that spawn on mining/gas sites, which gives crap loot that wont justify the investment of the orca and pos? Best reason i could come up with.
Havegun Willtravel	Posted - 2009.03.16 23:48:00 - [26] The Orca will definately be the ship of choice for Worm Hole space for those not inclined to go the small pos route. There are roid belts ( need to be scanned out ) with veld and other popular types. Turning them into mins for a small ammo array ?? that i dont know. Laser = win. A small pos is not overly difficult to service. You should be able to carry in enough fuel for a month and wait for an advantageous opportunity to refuel. Beware that even high sec WH's can exit to low sec or even 0.0. Dont wait until you're almost empty to start looking for a refueling opportunity. You need to jump at the first good opportunity that appears and bring back as much fuel and spare ammo as possible. whatever ships you bring make sure it's cap stable with the repper on full time. Needing or running out of cap boosters in wh space will be a big fail. Bring hull reppers, you'll need them sooner or later, guaranted. Small t2 drones = win, Mediums need to be watched carefuly. Large drones = fail. Sleepers insta pop them. To slow to recall and save if they're more than 15 k away. It's unlikely someone on a roam will bother to gank your pos, but, someone might not want the competition in " Their " wormhole. Have enough stront to reload.
hacksideways Caldari Point Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.17 00:42:00 - [27] Edited by: hacksideways on 17/03/2009 00:41:50 You don't really need all that much to live out there. I've been in w-space in just my Buzzard since Apocrypha came out. Of course, my definition of "live" is "travel through w-space until I find people, then ** with them until I get bored/move on". I steal from their wrecks, blow up their cans, chase probers all over the system, that sort of thing. I happened across a w-system with a POS in it, hung out there for a while screwing with the guys running it. Then a high-sec wh opened up to the system, and some noob in a Drake came through. I gave him a bm to a "Super awesome easy sleeper farming site!", and he warped into a bubble the POS guys had set up to try and trap me. Made a big boom. Was much fun. Living in W-space is easy, so long as you have CovOps. - Originally by:** Liz Laser Exotic Dancers are cargo. That's how we roll.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.03.17 00:45:00 - [28] An unhealthy dose of insanity. Self-proclaimed idiot
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2009.03.17 15:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Tzar'rim An unhealthy dose of insanity. Are you sure that's not optional?


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