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Hobgoblin ll
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Posted - 2009.03.21 07:52:00 -
[1]
I'd like to buy one, but people telling they cost like 120 billion It makes no sense to me that they are in the variation info of a normal raven - but not obtainable. Why create a new ship and then make only a few of them ingame, create concupiscence but not give a realistic chance to satisfy it ?
It can't be a matter of protection of confidence of the old owners. Winners of other alliance tournaments didn't get 120-80 billion prizes aswell but only some PLEX worth a few billions. If the price comes down from this ludicrous 12 digit numbers and people can buy it at the price of a mothership, this wouldn't obsolete the other raven hull ships. Same counts for the other 3 races empire/republich/federation battleships.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses W A S T E L A N D
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Posted - 2009.03.21 07:55:00 -
[2]
Translation: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa why is it that the rich have all the nice toys???
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:14:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll
It makes no sense to me that they are in the variation info of a normal raven - but not obtainable.
They are obtainable. Pony up 120 bill and you're away.
As for making them more easily obtainable... no. You see there would be a tiny balance issue with introducing a ship that's hugely better than everything else it's class. Mission runners already have perfectly good faction BS to increase their earning potential with.
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Uncle Thomas
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:15:00 -
[4]
Navy Raven was 1.4 Bill back in the day. The market price tumbled with the introduction of the LP store.
Who knows, CCP may decide to introduce some more state issue some day.
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Daelorn
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:27:00 -
[5]
Ok... so...
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:34:00 -
[6]
You are never, ever going to see the State Raven or Tempest available like normal ships, for one simple reason: they are utterly, game-breakingly, broken. The only reason they were released is because CCP knows that the few that currently exist will spend 99% of their time as hangar ornaments or SiSi toys, maybe getting into the occasional epic fight (probably ending in a very expensive loss). As generally available ships, they would be absurdly overpowered, and instantly make every other battleship in the game redundant.
Best way to fly one? Pay one of the owners to let you borrow it on the test server. -----------
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Vanessa Vasquez
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:34:00 -
[7]
I totaly agree that it's actually ridiculous to have an item in database which is defacto non existant. There would be a way to introduce such ships.
Factional Warefare
I think we can all agree that FW lacks rewards. What could fit better than a State Issue / Federation Issue ect. for those who have accomplished a lot for their nation? Not a LP store thingy which can be farmed to death, no! More like the cosmos agents, you can only access ONCE and you'd need an insane lvl of faction standing towards, i.e. militia.
Quote:
[21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder |
Hobgoblin ll
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin You are never, ever going to see the State Raven or Tempest available like normal ships, for one simple reason: they are utterly, game-breakingly, broken. The only reason they were released is because CCP knows that the few that currently exist will spend 99% of their time as hangar ornaments or SiSi toys, maybe getting into the occasional epic fight (probably ending in a very expensive loss). As generally available ships, they would be absurdly overpowered, and instantly make every other battleship in the game redundant.
Best way to fly one? Pay one of the owners to let you borrow it on the test server.
Oh c'mon that 8 instead of 7 launchers, 14.3% more dps. Thats the diffrence between using a CNR with t1 ammo and faction ammo. Or t2 launchers compared to medium named ones. It's not ABSURDLY overpowered. You could also use heavy drones instead of medium drones, but for missions you want the smaller drones anyways, for killing frigates. And the little higher buffer doesn't mean a lot for missions, makes you a little harder to be suicideganked, but not much. Make it cost 20-30 billions and there is no balance issue.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll Oh c'mon that 8 instead of 7 launchers, 14.3% more dps. Thats the diffrence between using a CNR with t1 ammo and faction ammo. Or t2 launchers compared to medium named ones. It's not ABSURDLY overpowered. You could also use heavy drones instead of medium drones, but for missions you want the smaller drones anyways, for killing frigates. And the little higher buffer doesn't mean a lot for missions, makes you a little harder to be suicideganked, but not much. Make it cost 20-30 billions and there is no balance issue.
Who gives a **** about missions, they'd be stupidly overpowered as PvP ships. -----------
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Cyhawk
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Posted - 2009.03.21 08:56:00 -
[10]
State Ravens were Alliance tournament prizes, they will NEVER be given out again. They wernt worth 150 bill when they came out, theyre collectors items, like my collection of Mines.
Get over it, fly a Golem.
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Clocky
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:05:00 -
[11]
So what you want is a Bugatti Veyron for the price of a Ford Fiesta? (<Metaphore)
There is nothing to stop you buying one you just need to have enough isk to make someone part with thiers -).
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Hobgoblin ll
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll Oh c'mon that 8 instead of 7 launchers, 14.3% more dps. Thats the diffrence between using a CNR with t1 ammo and faction ammo. Or t2 launchers compared to medium named ones. It's not ABSURDLY overpowered. You could also use heavy drones instead of medium drones, but for missions you want the smaller drones anyways, for killing frigates. And the little higher buffer doesn't mean a lot for missions, makes you a little harder to be suicideganked, but not much. Make it cost 20-30 billions and there is no balance issue.
Who gives a **** about missions, they'd be stupidly overpowered as PvP ships.
You must be an extreme moron to bring a 20-30 billion ship to pvp, that is only slightly better than it's 300 million faction counterpart. Probably one of those eBay isk-buyer noobs, who think that if they pay a lot for something, it must wtfpown in pvp - and of course the enemy will do everything to make sure that you lose it for the sake of lolz and because it looks good on a killboard. Since you seem to be a little slow-witted, i'll repeat it again, for the last time: they should be EXPENSIVE and HARD TO GET - not like the Navy Ravens and other mass items. But 5-6 ships for a player base of 250.000 is a little too rare, and the only guy i know who own ones, won't sell his no matter how much isk you offer. They are de facto unobtainable, this shouldn't be, no one asks for them to become a commonly used ship.
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Hobgoblin ll
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Clocky So what you want is a Bugatti Veyron for the price of a Ford Fiesta? (<Metaphore)
There is nothing to stop you buying one you just need to have enough isk to make someone part with thiers -).
If you'd think for a second you'd see that your Metaphor speaks against what you say. I asked it for a price of 20 billion. If you compare the Ford Fiesta with a raven, that costs 100 million, i want to have the state raven for 200 times as much. A new Ford Fiesta will cost approx. 10.000 US$, 200 times as much is 2 million US$. You see i don't ask something that makes no sense, even in a metaphoric way.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll I'd like to buy one, but people telling they cost like 120 billion It makes no sense to me that they are in the variation info of a normal raven - but not obtainable. Why create a new ship and then make only a few of them ingame, create concupiscence but not give a realistic chance to satisfy it ?
It can't be a matter of protection of confidence of the old owners. Winners of other alliance tournaments didn't get 120-80 billion prizes aswell but only some PLEX worth a few billions. If the price comes down from this ludicrous 12 digit numbers and people can buy it at the price of a mothership, this wouldn't obsolete the other raven hull ships. Same counts for the other 3 races empire/republich/federation battleships.
You can buy one though, you just have to pay 120b+ or whatever the seller is willing to accept.
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Zhure
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:27:00 -
[15]
This is the most moronic thing Ive seen on this forum sofar. Someone asking to buy a ship like that for more or less nothing. If you want to get a grasp about why people charge as much for it. CCP will not be seeding more of them, they have said that. There are very very very very very very very ( get the picture ?? ) of them out there compared to Navy ravens, thus the huge pricetag.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll If the price comes down from this ludicrous 12 digit numbers and people can buy it at the price of a mothership, this wouldn't obsolete the other raven hull ships.
You're missing the point of the State Raven. It's not meant to obsolete anything, nor is it meant to be compared to anything. It's bling. It's a mantlepiece ornament. It's bragging rights. As such, its price has nothing to do with its performance (because the performance is "none").
Adding more to the game to bring the price down would mean no-one would buy it, since it would then neither be bling or give you bragging rights, and since it would be re-balanced to be in-line with the other Ravens, it wouldn't be particularly interesting to own for any reason. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll
Originally by: Merin Ryskin You are never, ever going to see the State Raven or Tempest available like normal ships, for one simple reason: they are utterly, game-breakingly, broken. The only reason they were released is because CCP knows that the few that currently exist will spend 99% of their time as hangar ornaments or SiSi toys, maybe getting into the occasional epic fight (probably ending in a very expensive loss). As generally available ships, they would be absurdly overpowered, and instantly make every other battleship in the game redundant.
Best way to fly one? Pay one of the owners to let you borrow it on the test server.
Oh c'mon that 8 instead of 7 launchers, 14.3% more dps. Thats the diffrence between using a CNR with t1 ammo and faction ammo. Or t2 launchers compared to medium named ones. It's not ABSURDLY overpowered. You could also use heavy drones instead of medium drones, but for missions you want the smaller drones anyways, for killing frigates. And the little higher buffer doesn't mean a lot for missions, makes you a little harder to be suicideganked, but not much. Make it cost 20-30 billions and there is no balance issue.
You might also notice little extra differences like the whopping drone bay, massive extra fittings, far more hp, etc etc.
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:38:00 -
[18]
Quote: Oh c'mon that 8 instead of 7 launchers, 14.3% more dps. Thats the diffrence between using a CNR with t1 ammo and faction ammo.
So shove Faction Ammo into the CNR? Plus it's got a ton more shield if you didn't notice. Leave them as the rewards that they are (or were), unless you want to harp on about bringing in Silver and Gold Magnates, Yachts and the Interbus and Christmas presents in as mainstream items too. ---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Hobgoblin ll
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zhure This moronic thing Ive seen on this forum sofar. is the most Someone asking to buy a ship like that for more or less nothing.
20-30 billion is a lot of isk. For the average missionrunner thats up to 1000 hours of active mission-running. Even more for miners or the average belt-ratters. It's not nothing. It's more than you probably will ever have.
Originally by: Zhure
If you want to get a grasp about why people charge as much for it. ...
Everyone that is not a complete moron like you, knows that they are so expensive because there are only a couple of them out there, it's not a big insight that you discover here, it's evident and was never questioned. My proposal was to make them a little more common - still very hard to get but not just a fixed number of only a few ships, that is never going to increase.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:42:00 -
[20]
If they were made more common they'd have to be rebalanced.
If they were rebalanced people, or even if they became more commonplace, they would be less appealing.
I really don't see how it affects you not having one. You're never going to see them flying around, their value negates any use in PvE or PvP so it's somewhat academic how much faster they would be for missions, or how they would fare in PvP.
They are collectors items, and 120b+ is what they cost. That's the bottom line.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll My proposal was to make them a little more common - still very hard to get but not just a fixed number of only a few ships, that is never going to increase.
And the counter-question is: why? Their whole reason to exist is to be unobtainable. Add more and you might as well remove them. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Zhure
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:47:00 -
[22]
Well I have my 20-30 bill and more, and I am a missionrunner. And it does seem here that you the only one who thinks that this rare ship should be seeded more to make it cheaper and thus also wash out the meaning of it. But if you as a missionrunner yourself ( making the assumption that you are one ) cant make a couple of billions a week, then your doing something wrong. And with that income it shouldnt take you more than a couple of months to being able to buy your state raven if you can get Entity or one of the others who has one to sell one to you.
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:51:00 -
[23]
well there are like , 3 ? of these state/imperial/tribal/fedaration issue ships left ?
why bother whining about them , like someone pointed out they are overpowered beyond imagination lol.
state issue raven dishes out well over 2000 dps with torps ....
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Research Shizzle
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Posted - 2009.03.21 09:52:00 -
[24]
They're trophies....nothing more, nothing less. You make them more common, and they lose their entire purpose. Should every Olympic athlete get a gold medal even if they don't win?
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Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.21 10:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll You must be an extreme moron to bring a 20-30 billion ship to pvp, that is only slightly better than it's 300 million faction counterpart. Probably one of those eBay isk-buyer noobs, who think that if they pay a lot for something, it must wtfpown in pvp - and of course the enemy will do everything to make sure that you lose it for the sake of lolz and because it looks good on a killboard. Since you seem to be a little slow-witted, i'll repeat it again, for the last time: they should be EXPENSIVE and HARD TO GET - not like the Navy Ravens and other mass items. But 5-6 ships for a player base of 250.000 is a little too rare, and the only guy i know who own ones, won't sell his no matter how much isk you offer. They are de facto unobtainable, this shouldn't be, no one asks for them to become a commonly used ship.
Paging Tyrrax Thorrk to this thread. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.21 10:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Hobgoblin ll
Originally by: Zhure This moronic thing Ive seen on this forum sofar. is the most Someone asking to buy a ship like that for more or less nothing.
20-30 billion is a lot of isk. For the average missionrunner thats up to 1000 hours of active mission-running. Even more for miners or the average belt-ratters. It's not nothing. It's more than you probably will ever have.
Originally by: Zhure
If you want to get a grasp about why people charge as much for it. ...
Everyone that is not a complete moron like you, knows that they are so expensive because there are only a couple of them out there, it's not a big insight that you discover here, it's evident and was never questioned. My proposal was to make them a little more common - still very hard to get but not just a fixed number of only a few ships, that is never going to increase.
OK, let's look at it another way:
You're not getting one, so deal with it.
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Kia Corallis
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Posted - 2009.03.21 10:54:00 -
[27]
I was busy flying my raven thinking I was quite good, dreaming of the day I could get a Navy Issue Raven, wow, Imagine my surprise to go into caldari space and see every man and his dog in CNR's and Golems, rather humbling. I now have earned my own CNR and am very proud of it, I worked hard for it, yes I would also love to get a state issue, who wouldn't, they need to be rare and hard to get, my single CNR is my pride and joy, for state issue owners it will no doubt be the same, bragging rights and all that jazz, the last thing I want to see is mission runners all running around in state issues negating the attraction of them. they are very are and better than the rest, lets leave it that way, leave the dream there until you get to earn one the hard way, buying them is simply a stupid way to get it in game
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Kia Corallis
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Posted - 2009.03.21 11:01:00 -
[28]
I think State Issues should only be given in exceptional circumstances to pilots who are insanely loyal to the state and have repeatedly performed the 'heroic acts', with the woe betide anyone who loses his, bring out the suicide option for those that do, they are flagships, symbols of the pride and might of the caldari, (same applies to the other factions), lets never bring it down to the rich mans ship, it demeans the ship and the symbology of what flying that ship means, who you are and what you have done to earn it, it is a visable reward to pilots, not a purchase down the local shop the navy ones are now. point taken ?
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.03.21 11:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kia Corallis I think State Issues should only be given in exceptional circumstances to pilots who are insanely loyal to the state and have repeatedly performed the 'heroic acts', with the woe betide anyone who loses his, bring out the suicide option for those that do, they are flagships, symbols of the pride and might of the caldari, (same applies to the other factions), lets never bring it down to the rich mans ship, it demeans the ship and the symbology of what flying that ship means, who you are and what you have done to earn it, it is a visable reward to pilots, not a purchase down the local shop the navy ones are now. point taken ?
they shouldn't and won't get given away anymore.
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Vegeta
Minmatar Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.03.21 11:25:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Vegeta on 21/03/2009 11:26:56
When these ships were created it was intended that ten would be given out every tournament. Originally it would have meant a huge price tag, but as more people acquired them the price would have gone down and we might have seen them used occasionally. At 20 ships/year they still would have maintained their legendary status but also be available to those who were willing to pay top dollar. Remember that the 20 ships were supposed to be split between three battleships for each faction, making a total of 12 available ships. With more ships coming into the game, the owners would have been encouraged to sell because they knew that more ships are coming in 5 months time and that meant the price would have probably gone down.
However, when the alliance tournament changed these policies were changed and the prices for the original ships have stayed high as a result (even if the prices you said are only speculation because as far as I'm aware, none of these ships have been sold for years). ---
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