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Are Lv2 Security Missons too small for a Cruiser?

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Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 16:36:00 - [1] - Quote Because I just can't seem to hit those damn little Frigates with my turrets, no matter what I try. But since you apparently need a Battle Cruiser or bigger for Lv3's... what's a Cruiser to do?
Lyron-Baktos Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle 141	Posted - 2012.04.30 16:41:00 - [2] - Quote I believe I was doing level 2 missions in my Omen, which is a cruiser. Post your ship/fit so we can see if that is the issue. On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 455	Posted - 2012.04.30 16:42:00 - [3] - Quote No, L2s should be fine in a cruiser. It is, however, a lesson in managing transversal. Medium turrets do have trouble hitting small targets. Usually you're best off kiting and picking them off at range as much as possible. Alternatively, you can use a destroyer. For the most part they'll be able to handle whatever L2s throw at you. What's your ship/fit?
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 16:45:00 - [4] - Quote It is a Stabber. 4xDual 180mm Auto Cannons 2xRapid Light Missile Launchers Mid: Capacitor Recharger Capacitor Battery Cruiser-sized Afterburner Low: Damage Control 400mm Plates Medium Armor Repairer II Rigs: None....
Fronkfurter McSheebleton Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity 85	Posted - 2012.04.30 16:57:00 - [5] - Quote Honestly, cruisers are the best hull size for L1/2 missions. Battlecruisers are better than T1 cruisers of course, but T2/T3 cruisers just eat through these. (You'll do that on occasion to get standings up) Destroyers work nicely too, once you've got the skills to fly them well. On your fit, drop the 400mm plate, it's useless. Drop the capacitor battery as well, and put a tracking computer there. With a tracking script in, it'll help with the frigates. You can put a capacitor power relay in the newly-freed lowslot if you like, to keep it stable. Also, a lone energized adaptive nano membrane would give better armor resists than a lone DCU, leading to a higher amount of sustained dps you can tank. Also be sure to pick the right ammo against whatever you're shooting. edit: Just noticed you have no rigs, either. Fix that...medium capacitor control circuits are relatively cheap and would help your fit a ton. Triple rep Myrms are like what you'd get if youit strapped a beehive to Robocop.-Kale Eledar
Rezig Huruta AD ASTRA Interstellar 7	Posted - 2012.04.30 17:29:00 - [6] - Quote I'm doing t2s with 650mm artillery cannons in a stabber. I have a tracking enhancer but, also, you can burn away from them to make them line up (if they get too close), to bring the transversal down to a manageable level. On your overview, make sure you have the transversal data showing. Compare that to your tracking. I'm nuking them from 35 KM away, though if they get close, you burn away and keep missiles on them, plus the one drone you can field. With the bonuses I have, as well as tracking enhancers, the tracking speed of them is slightly better than 0.032.
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 17:32:00 - [7] - Quote Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: On your fit, drop the 400mm plate, it's useless. . How come? It is 1.000 extra Armor. Rather good if you ask me. As for the Damage Control; I like the Hull resistances it gives. Doesn't make damage to the hull as instantly devastating.
Lyron-Baktos Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle 142	Posted - 2012.04.30 17:45:00 - [8] - Quote Tor Gungnir wrote: Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: On your fit, drop the 400mm plate, it's useless. . How come? It is 1.000 extra Armor. Rather good if you ask me. As for the Damage Control; I like the Hull resistances it gives. Doesn't make damage to the hull as instantly devastating. It's useless as you don't need the protection it provides when you can use something better that you can use. On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á
Rezig Huruta AD ASTRA Interstellar 7	Posted - 2012.04.30 17:52:00 - [9] - Quote If you are getting armor breached on your mission, you might need to reconsider your tactics. Instead of the armor, you can increase your tracking and damage. If you don't find yourself regularly blasted down to low armor, there's really no problem. Remember, if things go south, you can warp away.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 62	Posted - 2012.04.30 18:46:00 - [10] - Quote Tor Gungnir wrote: Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: On your fit, drop the 400mm plate, it's useless. . How come? It is 1.000 extra Armor. Rather good if you ask me. it is dead weight. it makes you slower, less agile, and doesn't improve your repping or dps. for level 2s I used a shield tanked rupture, plus it has a nice drone bay. Drones are very good for taking out frigs.
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 19:54:00 - [11] - Quote I see. Thanks for the input, guys.
drdxie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 81	Posted - 2012.04.30 20:02:00 - [12] - Quote Just get a BC :) save you some headaches, just remember to fit a web if you going AC's. the web will even help your drones kill quicker
Flakey Foont Republic University Minmatar Republic 110	Posted - 2012.04.30 20:16:00 - [13] - Quote Use mission specific armor hardeners. Use eve-survival.org to see what you need. Plate is not needed in PVE as a rule.
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 21:12:00 - [14] - Quote Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Honestly, cruisers are the best hull size for L1/2 missions. Battlecruisers are better than T1 cruisers of course, but T2/T3 cruisers just eat through these. (You'll do that on occasion to get standings up) Destroyers work nicely too, once you've got the skills to fly them well. On your fit, drop the 400mm plate, it's useless. Drop the capacitor battery as well, and put a tracking computer there. With a tracking script in, it'll help with the frigates. You can put a capacitor power relay in the newly-freed lowslot if you like, to keep it stable. Also, a lone energized adaptive nano membrane would give better armor resists than a lone DCU, leading to a higher amount of sustained dps you can tank. Also be sure to pick the right ammo against whatever you're shooting. edit: Just noticed you have no rigs, either. Fix that...medium capacitor control circuits are relatively cheap and would help your fit a ton. I made the changes suggested and it still gets creamed in LV2 missions because the Frigates just won't die. Countless millions down the drain on a worthless ship. sigh Should just forget this turret nonsense and get myself a Drake or something like 99% of players do.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity 86	Posted - 2012.04.30 21:45:00 - [15] - Quote Tor Gungnir wrote: Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Honestly, cruisers are the best hull size for L1/2 missions. Battlecruisers are better than T1 cruisers of course, but T2/T3 cruisers just eat through these. (You'll do that on occasion to get standings up) Destroyers work nicely too, once you've got the skills to fly them well. On your fit, drop the 400mm plate, it's useless. Drop the capacitor battery as well, and put a tracking computer there. With a tracking script in, it'll help with the frigates. You can put a capacitor power relay in the newly-freed lowslot if you like, to keep it stable. Also, a lone energized adaptive nano membrane would give better armor resists than a lone DCU, leading to a higher amount of sustained dps you can tank. Also be sure to pick the right ammo against whatever you're shooting. edit: Just noticed you have no rigs, either. Fix that...medium capacitor control circuits are relatively cheap and would help your fit a ton. I made the changes suggested and it still gets creamed in LV2 missions because the Frigates just won't die. Countless millions down the drain on a worthless ship. sigh Should just forget this turret nonsense and get myself a Caracal/Drake or something like everyone else. Interesting... Burn away from them and shoot while they're coming straight at you. A MWD might work better for this, but you should still outrun them with the AB. You could also try a stasis web to hold them still(ish) while you shoot. Missile ships have their own problems, btw. : / Triple rep Myrms are like what you'd get if youit strapped a beehive to Robocop.-Kale Eledar
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 21:49:00 - [16] - Quote I'm just gonna stick to my Rifter or something. Surprisingly it does a lot better at Lv2 missions. Cruisers seem cursed in that they carry guns for Lv3 missions without the ability to tank those through.
Lyron-Baktos Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle 143	Posted - 2012.04.30 21:58:00 - [17] - Quote you never answered my questions regarding your Trajectory Analysis skill or if you were fighting in your optimal range. A cruiser should not die in Level 2's unless something is wrong. Is it all the missions or a certain one? On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á
Rezig Huruta AD ASTRA Interstellar 8	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:02:00 - [18] - Quote You're not trying to orbit them are you? The dual 180s have tracking of 0.139... if you're not orbiting them, you should be creaming them. Are you using the correct ammo? Make sure to add the velocity to the overview so you can see how fast they are traversing.
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:02:00 - [19] - Quote Lyron-Baktos wrote: you never answered my questions regarding your Trajectory Analysis skill or if you were fighting in your optimal range. A cruiser should not die in Level 2's unless something is wrong. Is it all the missions or a certain one? Lv4. Fighting within optimal range. Keep missing salvo after salvo. Even with a Tracking Computer active.
Nerath Naaris Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy 98	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:04:00 - [20] - Quote Did you actually lose your cruiser? Because I am not aware that the rats in L2s scram you, so you should be able to warp out any time. Anyway, if you have trouble with tracking, try fitting small guns, that can-¦t be worse than a Rifter. I think that your main problem might simply be a serious lack of skills. Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:05:00 - [21] - Quote Nerath Naaris wrote: Did you actually lose your cruiser? Because I am not aware that the rats in L2s scram you, so you should be able to warp out any time. Anyway, if you have trouble with tracking, try fitting small guns, that can-¦t be worse than a Rifter. I think that your main problem might simply be a serious lack of skills. Did not lose it, but since I can't fly missions with it.....
Rezig Huruta AD ASTRA Interstellar 8	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:08:00 - [22] - Quote If you're minmatar, the Thrasher is quite deadly. Treat it like a bigger rifter and you'll whoop 'em with small guns. If you're fighting Angel cartel and using EM, that's not good. Use Fusion for short range.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity 86	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:09:00 - [23] - Quote Tor Gungnir wrote: Lv4. Fighting within optimal range. Keep missing salvo after salvo. Even with a Tracking Computer active.. This is your problem. Autocannons fight in falloff...staying within optimal range usually doesn't work out well. Get farther away from them. About halfway into your falloff should work well enough. You can even add a range script to the tracking computer and burn out even farther. Triple rep Myrms are like what you'd get if youit strapped a beehive to Robocop.-Kale Eledar
Nerath Naaris Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy 98	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:17:00 - [24] - Quote Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Tor Gungnir wrote: Lv4. Fighting within optimal range. Keep missing salvo after salvo. Even with a Tracking Computer active.. This is your problem. Autocannons fight in falloff...staying within optimal range usually doesn't work out well. Get farther away from them. About halfway into your falloff should work well enough. You can even add a range script to the tracking computer and burn out even farther. Also, it-¦s Motion Prediction which improves your tracking by 5% per level. Trajectory Analysis improves falloff by 5% per level (which is quite important as well, especially for Minmatar, though). Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Lyron-Baktos Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle 143	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:28:00 - [25] - Quote Nerath Naaris wrote: Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Tor Gungnir wrote: Lv4. Fighting within optimal range. Keep missing salvo after salvo. Even with a Tracking Computer active.. This is your problem. Autocannons fight in falloff...staying within optimal range usually doesn't work out well. Get farther away from them. About halfway into your falloff should work well enough. You can even add a range script to the tracking computer and burn out even farther. Also, it-¦s Motion Prediction which improves your tracking by 5% per level. Trajectory Analysis improves falloff by 5% per level (which is quite important as well, especially for Minmatar, though). thanks for correcting me On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:44:00 - [26] - Quote So "Falloff" is what you should gun for. Then why the heck is it called "Optimal Range?". This game never ceases to confuse me.
drdxie Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 81	Posted - 2012.04.30 22:48:00 - [27] - Quote Tor Gungnir wrote: So "Falloff" is what you should gun for. Then why the heck is it called "Optimal Range?". This game never ceases to confuse me. maybe this will help you understand what you in for.
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 5	Posted - 2012.04.30 23:00:00 - [28] - Quote drdxie wrote: Tor Gungnir wrote: So "Falloff" is what you should gun for. Then why the heck is it called "Optimal Range?". This game never ceases to confuse me. maybe this will help you understand what you in for. Inflammable means flammable? What a country!
Fronkfurter McSheebleton Squirrel Horde Habitat Against Humanity 87	Posted - 2012.04.30 23:26:00 - [29] - Quote Tor Gungnir wrote: So "Falloff" is what you should gun for. Then why the heck is it called "Optimal Range?". This game never ceases to confuse me. All turrets have optimal range and falloff. Inside optimal, you have the maximum potential for damage. Once you get into falloff, your chance to hit starts going down, effectively reducing your dps at that range. At the very end of your falloff, you're doing approximately 50% of your dps, and at 2x falloff you're doing next to nothing. About 1/3 to 1/2 into falloff is where autocannons are usually happy fighting. Other turrets aren't all falloff. For example, hybrid turrets have a decent amount of both optimal and falloff. Railguns are more optimal than falloff, blasters the opposite. Laser turrets are almost all optimal range. This should help explain it a bit...the graph is the biggest large-size guns of each type with max skils, but without any ship bonuses or modules applied, using short range ammo. (short range/high damage ammo is what you should use primarily) Where the lines are flat is optimal range, and where it begins falling off is falloff. (hence the name) http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/mutant_corn/Eve/346f3503.png (apologies for the mouse-writing...snipping tool can't add text >_< ) As it stands, autocannons in particular don't look so hot. However, let's add three tracking enhancers to each type and see what happens: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/mutant_corn/Eve/aa7f7a51.png You can see how the different weapon types have different ways of projecting their damage. Lasers don't benefit much from range-enhancing mods as much as projectiles do, since those mods add on twice as much falloff as they do optimal range. Your projectiles also have the advantage of being able to change their damage type to match the target. Lasers and Hybrids are locked to EM/TH and KIN/TH, respectively. Triple rep Myrms are like what you'd get if youit strapped a beehive to Robocop.-Kale Eledar
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 121	Posted - 2012.04.30 23:56:00 - [30] - Quote In a stabber I found it easy when permarunning my AB and orbiting targets to actually ruin my own tracking even when fighting in falloff. As others have mentioned, fighting with a bit more range and having the frigs follow you works wonders.
Thurken Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.05.01 01:24:00 - [31] - Quote You can use small weapons(rails, artillery, small missile launchers) on cruisers. With this setup you have enough powergrid left to fit a very sturdy tank and rip trough level 2 missions easily and do some level 3 missions,too. Medium long range weopons on cruisers have troubles to track frigates. Tracking modules without other bonuses won't help really with that. Only kiting at range does.
Dato Koppla Perkone Caldari State 18	Posted - 2012.05.01 04:17:00 - [32] - Quote Cruisers are outclassed in level 2 missions by destroyers, lack of skill just makes it worse as you can't track anything for crap. Except the Caracal, but that's only because it can shoot bonused small ammo (RSML). Destroyers are where its at for L2s, their bonuses correlate almost perfectly to what you need in L2s, and they have 7-8 small guns, seeing as you're Minmatar, the Thrasher is downright awesome, use 250mm artillery, shield booster, afterburner, and the rest is up to you, you can alpha everything at range, and wtf tracking from destroyers bonus. If you use ACs you can get more dps but less range, and that will put you in the middle of the rat group which can be hard to tank. This is what I use for L2/L1 blitzing and Angel epic arc (with a cloak/mwd). It's nothing short of amazing at what it does. [Thrasher, PvE] 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S [Empty High slot] 1MN Afterburner II Small Shield Booster II Cap Recharger II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I Small Projectile Ambit Extension I Small Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Obviously T1/Meta the items that you can't T2, fitting is easy and you can lose the gun rigs for tank/cap rigs if you're having trouble tanking stuff but you shouldn't as long as you take out frigs at range and speed tank cruisers with your AB. TL:DR Gun cruisers suck at L2s, Destroyers are where its at.
Seth Actault kings of eve 0	Posted - 2012.05.01 04:53:00 - [33] - Quote Get a vexor with hobgoblins II, it eats frigs for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Omnomnomnom
MisterNick The Sagan Clan Persona Non Gratis 57	Posted - 2012.05.01 12:04:00 - [34] - Quote Once you're in a cruiser or bigger, you want to train up your drone skills as they take over much of the work with killing frigates. Nobody ever said they regretted training for T2 lights The stabber can work in missions, essentially flown as a bigger rifter, but the rupture is more sturdy and forgiving, along with the reasonable drone bay ~ Edit for typos "Fools! I'll show them all!" What do you mean that one's already taken?
serras bang Lucien Coven 2	Posted - 2012.05.01 15:00:00 - [35] - Quote ill tell you your prob with lvl 2s in a criuser your useing criuser lvl turrets dont use frig lvl guns and you will have no more probs just like the cara for lvl 2 you fight assualt missile launchers witch use standard missiles the same is tru of guns.
Bugsy VanHalen Society of lost Souls 110	Posted - 2012.05.01 16:53:00 - [36] - Quote serras bang wrote: ill tell you your prob with lvl 2s in a criuser your useing criuser lvl turrets dont use frig lvl guns and you will have no more probs just like the cara for lvl 2 you fight assualt missile launchers witch use standard missiles the same is tru of guns. This will work, however a destroyer can fit more small guns than most cruisers, would be sweet if the dual 180s actually acted like 2 180mm small guns rather than 1 medium gun. Fitting small guns on a cruiser will give you loads of CPU and Grid for tank but you don't really need it in a lvl 2. I upgraded to a rupture went I was running level 2 missions and most of the time ended up using my destroyer because it was faster. only used the rupture for the occasional hard one. I used my rupture for a lot of level 3 missions as well before getting into a Cane. No matter what level missions you are running a smaller faster ship is a better option than over sizing. For example it is a major pain to do lvl 3 missions with a battleship. you rarely have a tank issue but can not hit anything. Do not under estimate the value of gun support skills. The right support skills will not only increase your DPS but will make it a lot easy to hit smaller ships.
Drunken Bum School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 6	Posted - 2012.05.01 23:31:00 - [37] - Quote Read this through. It'll solve all your problems. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/eve-tracking101.swf
ValentinaDLM Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 486	Posted - 2012.05.02 00:18:00 - [38] - Quote Tor Gungnir wrote: I'm just gonna stick to my Rifter or something. Surprisingly it does a lot better at Lv2 missions. Cruisers seem cursed in that they carry guns for Lv3 missions without the ability to tank those through. The only level 3 mission I ever got in trouble with in my arbitrator was "my sweet privateer" and that is only because of the webs, kill them and you can tank it just fine. That is also probably the hardest l3 in the game. All you need to tank is speed and range... Even 425s have no problem hitting mission frigs in a shield ruppy because you get some tracking enhqncers and range and fire at a distance. That and the drones really negate the need to track small things. The stabber is also not the best choice for a mission ship, both the bellicose and rupture to better usually. Also, the vexor, thorax, arbitrator, and carcal are good choices. All or them imo need a passive shield tank, though it is possible to armor tank them, iirc I posted a vid a year or two back doing an l4 in a vexor with an armor tank.
Oraac Ensor School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 3	Posted - 2012.05.03 20:52:00 - [39] - Quote Tor Gungnir wrote: Rezig Huruta wrote: You're not trying to orbit them are you? Standing still and taking it in the face. I'm a complete novice at this, but isn't there something wrong here?
Zanza Mechonis Vulkan Innovations 0	Posted - 2012.05.04 10:08:00 - [40] - Quote Ummm... Guys, if he says he has problems with the frigates, what is a BC with even larger turrets going to help really? o.o For taking out small ships, drones are your friend. It can take a few days to get some skills for their DPS (Drones skill allows 1 more drone active at a single given point in time, scout drone operation lets you use the T1 drones, Drone Interfacing gives a 20% boost to DPS per level, and Drone Sharpshooting increases their optimal range) Throw a few of these in your ship, order them to shoot the frigates, and they should go down rather easily. Just be sure to get the damage type right.

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