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Minmatar recons -- still great in PvP? (rapier, huginn)

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xxxak Caldari O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.23 18:54:00 - [1] How useful are minmatar recons now? I know that a year ago they ruled the field. Having two or three of them in your gang was as important as two or three Falcons today. Are they still very useful? Do many people still fly them? I fly my huginn a lot, and I have gotten a lot of kills with it in 0.0 that otherwise would have gotten away.
CrimsonLobo Caldari Galaxy Punks Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.03.23 18:59:00 - [2] From what i have heard they have lost out big time because of recent changes. Havent flown a rapier since before speed nerf, so cant give anymore insight.
Liang Nuren No Salvation Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.23 19:05:00 - [3] I can honestly say I haven't seen a Huginn or Rapier since Apocrypha went live. I thought about buying one for ratting Serpentis (it was one of the cheaper ships on the market), but managed to find someone to build a Hurricane instead. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
xxxak Caldari O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.23 19:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Liang Nuren I can honestly say I haven't seen a Huginn or Rapier since Apocrypha went live. I thought about buying one for ratting Serpentis (it was one of the cheaper ships on the market), but managed to find someone to build a Hurricane instead. -Liang Interesting.. what are people using instead? In my experience it is still easy for a HAC to get back to a gate and run, or even get away from a small gang with a heated MWD. I know I have gotten a few kills that would have been impossible without 35km webs..
Liang Nuren No Salvation Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.23 19:21:00 - [5] Originally by: xxxak Interesting.. what are people using instead? In my experience it is still easy for a HAC to get back to a gate and run, or even get away from a small gang with a heated MWD. I know I have gotten a few kills that would have been impossible without 35km webs.. ** if I know what they're using instead! I know I see alot of Falcons, but I saw those before QR too. I don't see alot of Vagas, so they didn't go there... maybe they all trained Amarr, I see a metric crapton of Geddons and Harbies. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
CrimsonLobo Caldari Galaxy Punks Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.03.23 19:30:00 - [6] anything that fits a warp scrambler = just as good as a rapier or huginn.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.03.23 19:34:00 - [7] I still fly my rapier from time to time. They're seen less, because they're no longer mandatory to deal with the vast numbers of nanoships. Also, 60% webs are far less deadly. And as always, people under-rate the value of a 50% target painter for some reason. shrug. not as good as they were, because nanos are no longer FoTM, but still a good ship.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.23 21:01:00 - [8] As a minmatar pilot I don't fly the rapier/huggin/hyena anymore for the following reasons: 1. A 200 mm plate nano rifter with a scram/web/mwd or a vigil can stop any ship alot faster in a gang then the rapier/huggin. 2. The rupture is stupidly cost effective, as are the cane and cyclone. 3. Did I mention that the role of "tackle" in a gang can be done better by a t1 frig then a t2 100 mil isk recon? Don't get me started on the hyena. For reference: Rapier and huggin are SLOWER then t1 bellicose. Two webs are mandatory to do anything. A full nano fit gets you going to a whopping 2400-2600 m/s........................ Price of both has gone up stupidly high. Target painting bonus is ident. to t1 ship bonus. Two webs will slow a MWD ceptor down to 2000? 2300? Wow. I so want this ship. (insert blatent sarcasm.) Stop, hammer time.
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.03.23 23:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Megan Maynard As a minmatar pilot I don't fly the rapier/huggin/hyena anymore for the following reasons: 1. A 200 mm plate nano rifter with a scram/web/mwd or a vigil can stop any ship alot faster in a gang then the rapier/huggin. 2. The rupture is stupidly cost effective, as are the cane and cyclone. 3. Did I mention that the role of "tackle" in a gang can be done better by a t1 frig then a t2 100 mil isk recon? Don't get me started on the hyena. For reference: Rapier and huggin are SLOWER then t1 bellicose. Two webs are mandatory to do anything. A full nano fit gets you going to a whopping 2400-2600 m/s........................ Price of both has gone up stupidly high. Target painting bonus is ident. to t1 ship bonus. Two webs will slow a MWD ceptor down to 2000? 2300? Wow. I so want this ship. (insert blatent sarcasm.) this, really this. It can still be used as a scout/tackle for a fleet but af/intys/etc. do this better cept for the cloak and I don't think the cloak is worth that extra 80 mil or so. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers Reloaded	Posted - 2009.03.23 23:54:00 - [10] Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 23/03/2009 23:54:45 Minmatar reacons have definatly lost a lot of their utility in the long range hac combat I tend to see these days. We used to have a good selection of ships for the cruiser class - vegabond, Rapier, Rupture/Munin. . .but these days I almost never see a vegabond or rapier. So its really whether you get a Cain and fit 720HIIs (the artillery graphics took a real shot in the face btw) or a Munin with 720HIIs. . .sub par ships for sure. But I still fly them. . . -----------

Tefkros The Dead Pod Society Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.03.24 07:57:00 - [11] The reason you see so few Rapiers is because they are cloaked, you morons. On a more serious note, it¦s probably because you don¦t fight people who know that they are doing. The people that were the true "nano*s" of the age, still fly them in specialized gangs to great effect. Huginn/Curse gang, anyone? On an even more serious note, the majority of people I see here have no clue on how to use their ship. Go on, call a ship that can fit probes, move within range cloaked and tackle a SERIOUS target with much more impunity that any t1 counterpart, useless. Sure, the Arazu can attempt to do the same, until an AB frig gets in range and tears it a new one. A 5km/s inty will get dual webbed to around 1000m/s, not that bull** number Megan spews forth. But it¦s still immaterial. If you have to commit a recon ship to get an inty, there¦s something wrong with you, and if the inty pilot doesn¦t get out of range the moment he spots a Minmatar/Amarr recon, there¦s something wrong with him and natural selection will find him soon either way. As for me, I find the Rapier, after the probe changes, one of the most powerful ships one can fly. Also, they have become, together with Pilgrims, the bane of Falcons. Put your brain through a couple of spins to discover how, or wait till I post about it. Learn to fly your ships, stop listening to Megan unless she¦s talking about the Hyena, and stop quoting stuff typing "This." below it. Makes you look stupid.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.03.24 08:21:00 - [12] Edited by: fuxinos on 24/03/2009 08:21:02 Originally by: Tefkros ...stop quoting stuff typing "This." below it. Makes you look stupid. This. Seriously, hes right.
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.24 12:14:00 - [13] The Rapier is the best "mate" for an Arazu. The Arazu can play the "Rapier's" role as a forward scout/tackler pretty well, with Scramblers acting as close as 90% webs did before QR, and long range disruptors being more important than ever with the ships being much slower in overall and the gates being way larger in many key-positions... Also even tho webs are weaker, a Rapier can have a devastating effect against a target it double webs and/or webs & paints, and setups with 3x Webbers or 3x bonused ewar modules in general can be easily used. Whoever suggests that a fast frig is a better "webber" than a rapier, is simply clueless - forgive my "humble" opinion. Also do not compare a Rapier to a Hyena, with the latter being a ship that has lost it's niche almost completely after QR and the nano-web nerf.
Zackaryel Caldari Echolalia. Shangri-La.	Posted - 2009.03.24 13:23:00 - [14] Here are two fleet fittings for Huginn and Rapier. Enjoy. ---------- http://www.youtube.com/user/Zackaryel
irion felpamy Minmatar HellJumpers Corp United For 0rder	Posted - 2009.03.24 13:32:00 - [15] Anything with a covert ops cloak can find a place in a gang but the rapier has dropped right off the map after the speed nerf, even 2 webs with a sensor booster are not going to stop people getting back to agate and the drastic speed drop the rapier has suffered means its a pretty easy kill for anything with moderate range guns. Basicly its a pretty crappy ship now but it has its uses, the huggin is just a joke now unfortunatly.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.24 14:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Tefkros The reason you see so few Rapiers is because they are cloaked, you morons. On a more serious note, it¦s probably because you don¦t fight people who know that they are doing. The people that were the true "nano*s" of the age, still fly them in specialized gangs to great effect. Huginn/Curse gang, anyone? On an even more serious note, the majority of people I see here have no clue on how to use their ship. Go on, call a ship that can fit probes, move within range cloaked and tackle a SERIOUS target with much more impunity that any t1 counterpart, useless. Sure, the Arazu can attempt to do the same, until an AB frig gets in range and tears it a new one. A 5km/s inty will get dual webbed to around 1000m/s, not that bull** number Megan spews forth. But it¦s still immaterial. If you have to commit a recon ship to get an inty, there¦s something wrong with you, and if the inty pilot doesn¦t get out of range the moment he spots a Minmatar/Amarr recon, there¦s something wrong with him and natural selection will find him soon either way. As for me, I find the Rapier, after the probe changes, one of the most powerful ships one can fly. Also, they have become, together with Pilgrims, the bane of Falcons. Put your brain through a couple of spins to discover how, or wait till I post about it. Learn to fly your ships, stop listening to Megan unless she¦s talking about the Hyena, and stop quoting stuff typing "This." below it. Makes you look stupid. Sarcasm is lost on you isn't it? You really like flying rapiers so you have your opinion. But in reality? The ship is stupidly cost ineffective.... Stop, hammer time.
Kronos Hopeslayer Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.03.24 14:46:00 - [17] I blew up my last Huginn hull last night. It's simply not worth the ISK for the use. Even with 2 webs ships laugh at me as they blow past on their way to the gate... Interceptors have no fear what so ever of the Huginn, or the Rapier now, and Vagas aren't too bothered as well since they can burn through the tank long before the Huginn's DPS makes a dent in the cookie cutter 2 LSE II Vaga. I'll keep the rapier just for the sake of having a cov ops cloaking ship for intel. I'm cross training to amarr now. Curses and Zealots are where it's at. Call me FOTM if you will, but it's true. My alt is training for a taranis, so that takes care of tackle.
Celtic Desrtoyer	Posted - 2009.03.24 17:41:00 - [18] In my own opinion the Curse Rapier team is one of the most effictive teams I have seen lately. It is a pain to go up against...
Liang Nuren No Salvation Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.24 17:58:00 - [19] I SAW A RAPIER LAST NIGHT!! My Plated thorax made it back to the gate through its webs... -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
yrknat	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:10:00 - [20] Managed to sell my huginn right after QR, before ppl clued in. Still use my rapier as a hauler though, 850m^3 isnt much, but it can cloak and I can't use t2 indys.

Cess Poole Black Claw Exploratory	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:24:00 - [21] Originally by: xxxak Interesting.. what are people using instead? Black Ops, everywhere. Thousands of them.
Liang Nuren No Salvation Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Cess Poole Originally by: xxxak Interesting.. what are people using instead? Black Ops, everywhere. Thousands of them. I lol'ed and got funny looks from coworkers. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:05:00 - [23] Any devs reading this? Hello? /me pears thru one way glass and knocks 3-4 times. Stop, hammer time.
Venantius Gallente Esto Perpetua	Posted - 2009.03.24 21:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Liang Nuren I SAW A RAPIER LAST NIGHT!! My Plated thorax made it back to the gate through its webs... -Liang And I have had plenty of stuff make back to the gate on my arazu and 1000+ scan res Lach. But it is much harder to get away from a Lach AND a Huginn. Sure they are no longer solo tackle win buttons but they are still required in any gang that wants to catch something on a gate.
Liang Nuren No Salvation Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.03.24 21:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Venantius And I have had plenty of stuff make back to the gate on my arazu and 1000+ scan res Lach. But it is much harder to get away from a Lach AND a Huginn. Sure they are no longer solo tackle win buttons but they are still required in any gang that wants to catch something on a gate. Yeah, because a slow ass plated thorax should totally just ignore bonused dual webs amirite? Of course I'm right because gatecamping is srs bizness and you should have a 10 man RR fleet to keep the **ing recons alive amirite? Of course I'm right. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
haq aan Omega Enterprises Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.03.25 00:39:00 - [26] Edited by: haq aan on 25/03/2009 00:40:22 Fart : What if both Rapier and Huginn has a special bonus to web strenght, and makes a , lets say t2 web back to %90 ? [ninja edit: add hyena here too] Another fart : What if Signal Distortion Amps(u can change its name ofc) has a bonus to EWAR ,not only ECMs, so we Rapier pilots would fit a pair of them to increse our web str ? Both would be balanced imo. But i tend to prefer 1st proposal. haq
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.25 01:08:00 - [27] While I'm firmly against the big nerfs in recent patches, I want to correct some people here: Vagabonds are still popular pvp HACs - I see many of them. And while I agree that rapier and huginn lost major advantages, I am a bit surprised to find many gangs having a rapier or two in them. So, people definitely still fly those. Tho it seems like many people who fly rapiers simply because they can, not because they are very useful. In fact, a gallente recon with scrambler and 10km web is going to be much more effective at stopping people than a rapier. I'd think that rapiers and huginns deserve a boost to restore some usefulness with respect to other recons. I propose giving them a special bonus of 25% more web strength - not that much if you do the math, but it is a boost that would emphasize their role
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.25 04:47:00 - [28] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 25/03/2009 04:46:51 Originally by: Ephemeron While I'm firmly against the big nerfs in recent patches, I want to correct some people here: Vagabonds are still popular pvp HACs - I see many of them. And while I agree that rapier and huginn lost major advantages, I am a bit surprised to find many gangs having a rapier or two in them. Vagas aren't worthless, but they've definitely lost steam. They're still a good roam ship. Quote: So, people definitely still fly those. Tho it seems like many people who fly rapiers simply because they can, not because they are very useful. In fact, a gallente recon with scrambler and 10km web is going to be much more effective at stopping people than a rapier. It's kind of like the tempest. They're awful, there's much better alternatives at your fingertips, yet people continue to fly it anyway. Why? I have no clue. Quote: I'd think that rapiers and huginns deserve a boost to restore some usefulness with respect to other recons. I propose giving them a special bonus of 25% more web strength - not that much if you do the math, but it is a boost that would emphasize their role The entire minmatar EW situation needs a rethink. Target painter bonus... don't make roffle on your waffles.
Solid Prefekt Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.25 04:50:00 - [29] Target Painters are not great, but way better then before. Enough where I have trained up my TP skills and started fitting one on my Rapier. The Web did hurt the Minny Recons, but with ships going at half the speed I don't really want the webs buffed. I don't really want the TP buffed either as then it could turn into the Falcon where you got a strong module that can be used from great distances. So, don't buff/touch the Minny Recons. There are a lot bigger fish to fry (like the Falcon).
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.03.25 07:35:00 - [30] A big nerf to Rapiers is the amount of people flying zealots. While zealots are fodder to a Falcon/Curse a Rapier either leaves quietly or it's a killmail waiting to happen. Unless he fits faction webs that is. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.



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